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Old 04-30-2010, 12:11 PM   #41
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Default Re: Are ordinary people fit to rule?

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Originally Posted by bacon_army17 View Post

The government of the United states is made up of individuals. A majority of which are Harvard lawyers. /thinks of Obama
That's only a matter of who wants to be in the public eye. Really the make-up of at least the United States government changes from time to time. I can name as many low-born people as you can name elites. For example: John Adams, John Hamilton, and Andrew Jackson.

Whether people are smart or idiots is quite irrelevant. No matter how smart you are, your intelligence is minuscule compared to the aggregate intelligence of all people. Not to mention the knowledge gained over the thousands and thousands years of the civilized world.

Of course, I maintain a constrained view of human mature. All changes should be made slowly and be allowed to be reversed. No matter how smart you think you are, any change you are making is reversing a traditions, rules and trends set by many people and many generations. It MAY be better, but it must be done with humility.

Thus, ruling by many people is always going to be better than a few even if they are geniuses.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Are ordinary people fit to rule?

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Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
George Washington was elected by representatives from each colony. And unanimously I might add. This is where the electoral college started. It is what allowed for Hayes to be elected over Tilden, whose supporters included the KKK (which prevented Blacks and Republicans for voting for Hayes throughout the South). We are a Democratic Republic. The Constitution was written behind closed doors, not because they didn't think the people were capable of self government but because it wasn't practical.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ge/scores.html

ON the contrary, there was no "popular vote" in the first few elections.However the representitives that voted for him were equivalent to the majority of the United states citizens.
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And the social elite have a say. Not the only say. In fact class is much less an issue in the US than anywhere else in the world. Our biggest problems are lobbyists who represent minorities in a far range of categories.
The social elite have not had the only say since the election of 1824. However, the public ever since has had a growing influence on government. This influence is circumstantial,but it is evident.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 04-30-2010, 01:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Are ordinary people fit to rule?

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Originally Posted by bacon_army17 View Post
http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ge/scores.html

ON the contrary, there was no "popular vote" in the first few elections.However the representitives that voted for him were equivalent to the majority of the United states citizens.


The social elite have not had the only say since the election of 1824. However, the public ever since has had a growing influence on government. This influence is circumstantial,but it is evident.
For all intents and purposes, Washington was unopposed for election as President. Under the system then in place, votes for Vice President were not differentiated from votes for President.

I would think you would read your own link.

You are using this term: "the social elite". This literally had no meaning in America after the revolution. The gentry and the Tories of British rule were expelled or fled for the most part in the North East, and in the South the landed aristocracy were the only ones who were literate. Rule and power in this country has been dominated by regional politics, not class or social.

Edit: In the presidential election there still is no popular election. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you knew that.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Are ordinary people fit to rule?

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For all intents and purposes, Washington was unopposed for election as President. Under the system then in place, votes for Vice President were not differentiated from votes for President.

I would think you would read your own link.

You are using this term: "the social elite". This literally had no meaning in America after the revolution. The gentry and the Tories of British rule were expelled or fled for the most part in the North East, and in the South the landed aristocracy were the only ones who were literate. Rule and power in this country has been dominated by regional politics, not class or social.

Edit: In the presidential election there still is no popular election. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you knew that.
I could care less about your benefit, but I am fully aware that the people who were at the congressional convention voted him in.

Yes I am using the social elite, aka the founders of the United states. Most of them were wealthy men, and most agreed upon making a republic under the constitution. There were no laborers, but only educated men, bankers abnd people who owned land like Madison, Jefferson and Washington.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 04-30-2010, 02:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Are ordinary people fit to rule?

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Originally Posted by bacon_army17 View Post
I could care less about your benefit, but I am fully aware that the people who were at the congressional convention voted him in.

Yes I am using the social elite, aka the founders of the United states. Most of them were wealthy men, and most agreed upon making a republic under the constitution. There were no laborers, but only educated men, bankers abnd people who owned land like Madison, Jefferson and Washington.
The founding fathers were in no way elitists. Powerful? Yes. Influential? Yes. Rich? Certainly not all of them. In fact many of them sacrificed their personal livelihood in the war. George Washington fought on the front lines with farmer and slave alike. The American Revolution was a movement sponsored by the poor and rich alike. Just because the founding fathers were the voice of the Revolution, does not make them elitists.
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