When Bears Attack or Kishi Please Stop

[rm3991]

I thought sasuke said something about "and now for my new original technique" or something. he really did imply it was something he just created . . . but your theory makes sense . .

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Could you point out where Karin was during the chunin exam? I must have missed her when Kishimoto showed all the participants. Also, I think it's quite clear they only rested after the Sound ninja incident. The Lion's Barrage was supposed to be original, it's not if he has used it before.

Look closely at the First Exam. They never show all of the particapants in one panel. The same thing goes for the Second Exam. And it's pretty clear she never made it to the Third.

Also, can you point me to where in the manga it says that that's the first time Sasuke used the move?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

Look closely at the First Exam. They never show all of the particapants in one panel. The same thing goes for the Second Exam. And it's pretty clear she never made it to the Third.

Also, can you point me to where in the manga it says that that's the first time Sasuke used the move?

It's called implied. Not to mention Naruto came up with his move only from wacthing Sasuke. It was suggested that Naruto's move was less impressive because he had to see Sasuke do it first. If Sasuke was practising this move, he's the one that didn't do much.

The point was Sasuke needed Lee's move to lead into the Lion's Barrage, which was his original. You will agree that Sasuke never until this point copied Lee's move right?

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Wooster

It's called implied. Not to mention Naruto came up with his move only from wacthing Sasuke. It was suggested that Naruto's move was less impressive because he had to see Sasuke do it first. If Sasuke was practising this move, he's the one that didn't do much.
It doesn't matter if it makes the Yoroi fight less dramatic if he used it before then. All we know is that it's the first time the rest of Team 7 sees it.

The point was Sasuke needed Lee's move to lead into the Lion's Barrage, which was his original. You will agree that Sasuke never until this point copied Lee's move right?
Since when does he need to use Shadow of the Dancing Leaf to use Lion's Barrage? It's essientiely kicking your opponent into the ground.

Your move.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

Your move.

I agree there is nothing to say Sasuke didn't use Lion's Barrage before, but as you just said this has made a dramtic fight less so. Kishimoto has unintentionally undermined his own story. Likewise Sasuke never says he never used his Sharingan to copy a technique before. However, if Kishimoto alters the past again to have him copy someones technique before the preliminaries, you would agree that he removed even more drama.

I liken it to the revalation that Sasuke somehow used the sharingan during the Uchiha massacre, it ruined part of the speciality that Sasuke used the sharingan to stop Haku.

Evertime Sasuke's used it before the enemy had to be in the air, and Sasuke using the Dancing Leaf Shadow. Again it's been reduce to a series of kicks, again less important.

The point is not that it couldn't happen, but it strains believability. The world created is not just actual words, but the imagination of the reader. If you start forcing things to work just perfectly, you remove the "mask" if you will. You see how the story works not the story itself. I think you will agree that Kishimoto didn't think of having Karin in the chunin exams until very recently. That is bad form, and it really shows. All elements of character should be thought out before hand. Of course it's difficult with serial writing, but the best thing to do is not to screw with the known past.

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I agree there is nothing to say Sasuke didn't use Lion's Barrage before, but as you just said this has made a dramtic fight less so. Kishimoto has unintentionally undermined his own story. Likewise Sasuke never says he never used his Sharingan to copy a technique before. However, if Kishimoto alters the past again to have him copy someones technique before the preliminaries, you would agree that he removed even more drama.

I liken it to the revalation that Sasuke somehow used the sharingan during the Uchiha massacre, it ruined part of the speciality that Sasuke used the sharingan to stop Haku.

Evertime Sasuke's used it before the enemy had to be in the air, and Sasuke using the Dancing Leaf Shadow. Again it's been reduce to a series of kicks, again less important.

The point is not that it couldn't happen, but it strains believability. The world created is not just actual words, but the imagination of the reader. If you start forcing things to work just perfectly, you remove the "mask" if you will. You see how the story works not the story itself. I think you will agree that Kishimoto didn't think of having Karin in the chunin exams until very recently. That is bad form, and it really shows. All elements of character should be thought out before hand. Of course it's difficult with serial writing, but the best thing to do is not to screw with the known past.

You made a really interesting case with this post. I strongly agree that it takes away the significence of some events. However, I think he has been mildly planning a few of the things you mentioned.

Back around Karin's introduction, Suigetsu tells her, "I know the truth, you know... In the past, with Sasuke, you..." *Karin angrily slaps him* I think this flashback is what he's been planning since her introduction.

You're right, he hadn't created Karin's character back in Part 1, but the same can be said for a lot of Part 2 things. Where was the Akatsuki during the Chunin Exams? Where was Pain? Did Madara Uchiha even exist back then? At that point, they were not part of the Naruto world, even though we know now that they're highly related to the characters and events of that arc.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

[QUOTE=Wooster;2443394]Yes I stole the theme of the title from Rocky and Bullwinkle. What are you going to do about it?

A small spoiler about Chapter 482 ahead, so leave if you don't want to know.

So Karin was attacked by bear during the Chunin Exams and Sasuke saved her, huh? I don't really care about this little flashback in and of itself, but Kishimoto you need to stop the retcon. I am going to use this little example to explain how problematic all this visiting of the past can be.

First of all, I don't recall seeing Karin before in the Chunin exams, at some point we pretty much saw all the members.


Secondly, when did Sasuke have time to save Karin, it must have been after the attack by the Sound ninja and before Kabuto found them. However, didn't team 7 rest in that time, weren't they worried that there was no one else left? Maybe Sasuke did his daring act of rescue between leaving to get water and returning to save Sakura and Naruto from Kabuto. The day's never done for our little emo super hero.


Finally, did Sasuke just use the Lion's Barrage on the bear? I thought he invented that during the preliminary exams. I thought that was supposed to illustrate how the genius Sasuke could invent new moves on the fly. Your secret is out Sasuke, we now know you practice new moves on bears before you bring them out in battle. I feel sorry for the bear hit by Kirin.

Kishimoto could have easily had the first meeting between Karin and Sasuke been when they were with Orochiumaru. Sasuke was there for three years. He could at least had it occur during some unnamed C-rank mission, but instead he was too clever by half, and bungled the story.

Now in this little journey to the past, the space-time continuum is relatively intact, but that isn't the case in other instants. Danzo's character was pretty well developed and his motivations were quite clear. Nope, he actually just had a friendly rivalry with the Third. Uh, okay.


The retcon that has reverberated the most through the universe is Itachi being good. Itachi almost killed Kakashi and Sasuke with Tsukuyomi. Nope, he knew that the missing Tsunade would return and heal them. Itachi thinks Sasuke is worthless, so he tells him to live in fear. Nope, he also tells him to develop the Mangekyo sharingan and use his hate to defeat him. Oh, but don't hate so much to become an insane murderer. Whoops, he forget to tell Sasuke that one. Sasuke first used sharingan to save Naruto during the battle with Haku. Nope, he actually used it long ago against Itachi.

[SIZE=2]The second worst retcon because it

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

You made a really interesting case with this post. I strongly agree that it takes away the significence of some events. However, I think he has been mildly planning a few of the things you mentioned.

Back around Karin's introduction, Suigetsu tells her, "I know the truth, you know... In the past, with Sasuke, you..." *Karin angrily slaps him* I think this flashback is what he's been planning since her introduction.

You're right, he hadn't created Karin's character back in Part 1, but the same can be said for a lot of Part 2 things. Where was the Akatsuki during the Chunin Exams? Where was Pain? Did Madara Uchiha even exist back then? At that point, they were not part of the Naruto world, even though we know now that they're highly related to the characters and events of that arc.

Yes you are right Suigetsu has hinted that Sasuke and Karin were involved in some way ,but there are many ways they could have met. If Kishimoto wanted it to be before Orochimaru, there are plenty of time gaps he could have used.

Obviously, many characters have not exist until Part II, however, that does not mean they haven't existed in Kishimoto's mind. The easiest example is Madara, we even saw a statue of Madara at the end of Part I. And Sasuke was already looking at the tablet in the secret Uchiha meeting place.

Telling about the past we don't know about works because it adds to our understanding of the world. An example is Danzo in an earlier age. Putting aside all the stupid character stuff, this is good because we see ninja wearing armor like a past age. This is new information and is interesting and is build upon what we know about the First and Second Hokage looked like.

Adding events to something we do know about, chunin exams, makes us alter our understanding and is jarring. For example, I looked through all the pictures of the early chunin examine. Essentially given all the angles during the written part we should have seen all the ninja. There were no dark haired girls except for Hinata. But then outside of the forest of death there are dark haired girls all over the place. I think there are more unique ninja than the total number in the exam. I would have never noticed this but that Kishimoto has now told us Karin is in the chunin exams. Essentially, it screws with the mystique and reveals flaws.


I think Kishimoto is a great storyteller, but he get's himself into trouble sometimes. I just used Karin as a recent example. It's only a minor change and really doesn't damage the story that much if at all. Now about Itachi being good...

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

Yes I stole the theme of the title from Rocky and

You got bitten by the quote bug. You should fix your post if you didn't know this happened.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Dude, calm down, Kishi is smarter than you think. It was when he left for water. I read all of that chapter in vol. 7, and then when sasuke gets up to leave, naruto and sakura talk for 5 pages about the contents of the scroll. Naruto goes to open it and pop go's Kabuto! Sasuke comes from behind a rock, disgruntled, and sees Kabuto. Hmm, he had no water. What do you suppose he went back there to do...? hmmm.....Get your mind out of the gutter, he went to go kick the out of a bear. He thought plenty about this moment. I read the online chapter as I read volume seven cause I had a similar question. You think it was a coincidence?

Originally Posted by Wooster

You got bitten by the quote bug. You should fix your post if you didn't know this happened.

Yeah, dude it pissed me off, I spent 15 minutes on my post.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

Yeah, dude it pissed me off, I spent 15 minutes on my post.

Yeah that sucks. That's why I always copy my long posts before I hit submit.

Dude, calm down, Kishi is smarter than you think. It was when he left for water. I read all of that chapter in vol. 7, and then when sasuke gets up to leave, naruto and sakura talk for 5 pages about the contents of the scroll. Naruto goes to open it and pop go's Kabuto! Sasuke comes from behind a rock, disgruntled, and sees Kabuto. Hmm, he had no water. What do you suppose he went back there to do...? hmmm.....Get your mind out of the gutter, he went to go kick the out of a bear. He thought plenty about this moment. I read the online chapter as I read volume seven cause I had a similar question. You think it was a coincidence?

You're right if it happened, this is pretty much it. It's not that it's impossible. It's just improbable and too convient.

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Yes you are right Suigetsu has hinted that Sasuke and Karin were involved in some way ,but there are many ways they could have met. If Kishimoto wanted it to be before Orochimaru, there are plenty of time gaps he could have used.

Obviously, many characters have not exist until Part II, however, that does not mean they haven't existed in Kishimoto's mind. The easiest example is Madara, we even saw a statue of Madara at the end of Part I. And Sasuke was already looking at the tablet in the secret Uchiha meeting place.

Telling about the past we don't know about works because it adds to our understanding of the world. An example is Danzo in an earlier age. Putting aside all the stupid character stuff, this is good because we see ninja wearing armor like a past age. This is new information and is interesting and is build upon what we know about the First and Second Hokage looked like.

Adding events to something we do know about, chunin exams, makes us alter our understanding and is jarring. For example, I looked through all the pictures of the early chunin examine. Essentially given all the angles during the written part we should have seen all the ninja. There were no dark haired girls except for Hinata. But then outside of the forest of death there are dark haired girls all over the place. I think there are more unique ninja than the total number in the exam. I would have never noticed this but that Kishimoto has now told us Karin is in the chunin exams. Essentially, it screws with the mystique and reveals flaws.


I think Kishimoto is a great storyteller, but he get's himself into trouble sometimes. I just used Karin as a recent example. It's only a minor change and really doesn't damage the story that much if at all. Now about Itachi being good...

Once again, you make a very interesting observation about the series. I'm going to Rep you up for all the work you're putting into these posts.

I'm really not sure what there is left to talk about with the Karin situation, but I think Kishi, even back in Itachi's original arc, was planning on some level to make him good.

When Kurenai and Asuma stop them on the road out of the village, he says, "...Asuma, Kurenai... Please do not interfere... I don't want to kill you." If he really was the Big-Bad-Guy-of-Doom who killed his family just to see if he could, why would he think twice about killing two old friends who were getting in his way?

Also, it's pretty clear that he could've taken Naruto back in Part 1, but he pretended that he was too weak too face Jiriaya and left. Just look, Sasuke can use Tsukiyomi and Amatsurasu many times in a day now. Itachi used them each once, and claimed that that made him too weak to fight, even it's clear he has more power than Sasuke.

EDIT: Sorry, I have to spread rep around before I can give it to you.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Yes you are right Suigetsu has hinted that Sasuke and Karin were involved in some way ,but there are many ways they could have met. If Kishimoto wanted it to be before Orochimaru, there are plenty of time gaps he could have used.

Obviously, many characters have not exist until Part II, however, that does not mean they haven't existed in Kishimoto's mind. The easiest example is Madara, we even saw a statue of Madara at the end of Part I. And Sasuke was already looking at the tablet in the secret Uchiha meeting place.

Telling about the past we don't know about works because it adds to our understanding of the world. An example is Danzo in an earlier age. Putting aside all the stupid character stuff, this is good because we see ninja wearing armor like a past age. This is new information and is interesting and is build upon what we know about the First and Second Hokage looked like.

Adding events to something we do know about, chunin exams, makes us alter our understanding and is jarring. For example, I looked through all the pictures of the early chunin examine. Essentially given all the angles during the written part we should have seen all the ninja. There were no dark haired girls except for Hinata. But then outside of the forest of death there are dark haired girls all over the place. I think there are more unique ninja than the total number in the exam. I would have never noticed this but that Kishimoto has now told us Karin is in the chunin exams. Essentially, it screws with the mystique and reveals flaws.


I think Kishimoto is a great storyteller, but he get's himself into trouble sometimes. I just used Karin as a recent example. It's only a minor change and really doesn't damage the story that much if at all. Now about Itachi being good...

Yeah, What C4 said...And you expect the forest to be so filled with only those in the written exams? No, there mustve been some other exam somewhere else, because there were plenty of people who werent writing who were in the forest. Where was grass disguised Orochimaru? I didnt see him/her. where were the oboro ninja? not there. Where was that ninja that died of Gaara's beastly-ness? He wasn't there.

[Gamblor]

The retcon that has reverberated the most through the universe is Itachi being good. Itachi almost killed Kakashi and Sasuke with Tsukuyomi. Nope, he knew that the missing Tsunade would return and heal them. Itachi thinks Sasuke is worthless, so he tells him to live in fear. Nope, he also tells him to develop the Mangekyo sharingan and use his hate to defeat him. Oh, but don't hate so much to become an insane murderer. Whoops, he forget to tell Sasuke that one. Sasuke first used sharingan to save Naruto during the battle with Haku. Nope, he actually used it long ago against Itachi.

I think Itachi was always planned to be good because in chapter 7 page 16 Sasuke references Itachi crying after the massacre.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

Once again, you make a very interesting observation about the series. I'm going to Rep you up for all the work you're putting into these posts.

I'm really not sure what there is left to talk about with the Karin situation, but I think Kishi, even back in Itachi's original arc, was planning on some level to make him good.

When Kurenai and Asuma stop them on the road out of the village, he says, "...Asuma, Kurenai... Please do not interfere... I don't want to kill you." If he really was the Big-Bad-Guy-of-Doom who killed his family just to see if he could, why would he think twice about killing two old friends who were getting in his way?

Also, it's pretty clear that he could've taken Naruto back in Part 1, but he pretended that he was too weak too face Jiriaya and left. Just look, Sasuke can use Tsukiyomi and Amatsurasu many times in a day now. Itachi used them each once, and claimed that that made him too weak to fight, even it's clear he has more power than Sasuke.

EDIT: Sorry, I have to spread rep around before I can give it to you.

I take Itachi's comment then as just cool confidence. He has no desire to kill them, but he knows he easily can. Later he tells Kisame to kill them, when he finds out Kakashi knows about the Akatsuki. I don't think he was bluffing here. Itachi also used Tsukoyomu on Kakashi and Sasuke, and it's quite the vile technique.

I think Itachi was originally supposed to be Madara and Danzo rolled in to one. He's not violent, but he has almost no emotions and has grand plans for power. Not to mention in Sasuke's first flashback, Sasuke says that Itachi never spends time with him. Originally, we were presented with an Itachi that does not care about his family or pretend to.

The biggest problem is Itachi telling Sasuke to hate him. Sure the explanation is that he wanted Sasuke to be looked upon as a hero for killing a mass murderer. But later he tells Naruto he thinks Sasuke may turn to evil. Well why did you tell him to hate you more? Obviously, Sasuke's desire for revenge that turned him crazy stemed partly from what Itachi told him.

I think comparing strength levels are hard to do. First, we have to assume Kishimoto is being consistent, which he probably isn't. Second, we know Jiraiya almost defeated Pain. Pain says so himself that he would have lost if he didn't have his secret, i.e. Nagato controlled Pain from remote. I think Pain is and was stronger than Itachi. Besides Kisame and Itachi were supposed to get Naruto without causing a big commotion. Itachi wanted to take Kakashi when he found out that Kakashi knew about the Akatsuki. They were trying to operate from the shadows.

Now that's not to say Kishimoto pulled the good Itachi from his butt in Volume 43. I think he finally decided during the Naruto v. Sasuke fight at the Final Valley. First we see Madara, in the form of statue. I assume at this point Kishimoto is already planning to have Madara be the actual leader of the Akatsuki.

Second we see another flashback with Itachi being nice to his younger brother, but more importantly we see the scene where Itachi is accused of killing Shisui. Itachi actualy displays emotion here and is for some reason upset with the Uchiha clan. Of course, it is anger, but the previous Itachi was always cool and dispassionate. If he wanted power why would he care if the Uchiha clan emphasized the clan first. I didn't really know what to make of this. Finding out later that Itachi was good and conflicted about what he needed to do makes immense sense here.

So the problem with this altering of history is that there are inconsistences, not just mars on the story. There is no way to fix it, and I wouldn't want Kishimoto to try. There is essentially a good and bad Itachi. Both exist at once, some sort of weird Doublethink. Also, good Itachi led to Madara and Danzo, and combined both Nine-Tailed Fox and the Uchiha massacre, thus entwining Naruto's and Sasuke's fate. That's cool, Kishimoto just was a step too slow in thinking it up.

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

Yeah, What C4 said...And you expect the forest to be so filled with only those in the written exams? No, there mustve been some other exam somewhere else, because there were plenty of people who werent writing who were in the forest. Where was grass disguised Orochimaru? I didnt see him/her. where were the oboro ninja? not there. Where was that ninja that died of Gaara's beastly-ness? He wasn't there.

Well according to Ibiki and Anko only the written test takers when to the Forest of death. Given their discussion about numbers.

Seems to me they must have been playing musical chairs during the written exam, that's why we never saw them. Kishimoto needs to do another Karin flashback, where Ibiki tells a subset of ninja to move every five minutes to make it harder to cheat off of one person.

[Fan of Minato]

First things first, Naruto is not a "killing" manga. It's the choices of various people. Naruto's choices and Sasuke's choices. Itachi told Sasuke everything he could and wanted Sasuke to choose for himself.

And the Lions barrage was made before he used it against a human for the first time.

And Minato was a professional at Fuuinjutsu. Just so you know.
So was Itachi.

Itachi being good has no problems, it is actually a twist. xDD

Also, its not exactly the "half of nine-tails". Its like us and our shadow. Our shadow is not "half of us" neither are we "half of" our shadow.

(also people didn't need to be healed by Tsunade to be healed from Tsukyomi.They live but it just takes longer to heal completely.)

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Gamblor

I think Itachi was always planned to be good because in chapter 7 page 16 Sasuke references Itachi crying after the massacre.

I think Sasuke's was refering to his own crying, which he did in bucketfuls.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Fan of Minato

First things first, Naruto is not a "killing" manga. It's the choices of various people. Naruto's choices and Sasuke's choices. Itachi told Sasuke everything he could and wanted Sasuke to choose for himself.

And the Lions barrage was made before he used it against a human for the first time.

And Minato was a professional at Fuuinjutsu. Just so you know.
So was Itachi.

Itachi being good has no problems, it is actually a twist. xDD

Also, its not exactly the "half of nine-tails". Its like us and our shadow. Our shadow is not "half of us" neither are we "half of" our shadow.

(also people didn't need to be healed by Tsunade to be healed from Tsukyomi.They live but it just takes longer to heal completely.)

Ah, I pulled out the Itachi lovers. Thank you C4 Karura.

Twist are fine, but they are supposed to be twists for the reader not the author. In the ideal world, the writer should know the entire plot before the story is started. Obviously, that's difficult for serial writing.

I don't think we have any evidence that you can recover from Tsukoyomi. Kisame was actually surprised that Kakashi lived. I assume normal people die from it, weaker sharingan user fall into a permanent coma.

Itachi gave Sasuke the choice to become insane? Well that's great. If he wanted Sasuke to chose, he should have just told him nothing not keep egging him on to kill him, especially when they met later. Why did Itachi use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke? Itachi had already beaten Sasuke into submission.

A shadow is much less than you, in fact its not you at all its only light around you. In the nine tails case a mass amount of power wasn't sealed in Naruto. Beside's it's not that it can't be explained. It's that the explanation was cockeyed and convoluted. Most importantly, it's not how it was explained in the beginning, the Nine-Tailed Fox was sealed into Naruto, which resulted in Minato's death.

But perhaps that's a more serious response than you wanted. Now I am going back to my Itachi Twist. Mmmm, love the two swirly flavors.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I take Itachi's comment then as just cool confidence. He has no desire to kill them, but he knows he easily can. Later he tells Kisame to kill them, when he finds out Kakashi knows about the Akatsuki. I don't think he was bluffing here. Itachi also used Tsukoyomu on Kakashi and Sasuke, and it's quite the vile technique.

I think Itachi was originally supposed to be Madara and Danzo rolled in to one. He's not violent, but he has almost no emotions and has grand plans for power. Not to mention in Sasuke's first flashback, Sasuke says that Itachi never spends time with him. Originally, we were presented with an Itachi that does not care about his family or pretend to.

The biggest problem is Itachi telling Sasuke to hate him. Sure the explanation is that he wanted Sasuke to be looked upon as a hero for killing a mass murderer. But later he tells Naruto he thinks Sasuke may turn to evil. Well why did you tell him to hate you more? Obviously, Sasuke's desire for revenge that turned him crazy stemed partly from what Itachi told him.

I think comparing strength levels are hard to do. First, we have to assume Kishimoto is being consistent, which he probably isn't. Second, we know Jiraiya almost defeated Pain. Pain says so himself that he would have lost if he didn't have his secret, i.e. Nagato controlled Pain from remote. I think Pain is and was stronger than Itachi. Besides Kisame and Itachi were supposed to get Naruto without causing a big commotion. Itachi wanted to take Kakashi when he found out that Kakashi knew about the Akatsuki. They were trying to operate from the shadows.

Now that's not to say Kishimoto pulled the good Itachi from his butt in Volume 43. I think he finally decided during the Naruto v. Sasuke fight at the Final Valley. First we see Madara, in the form of statue. I assume at this point Kishimoto is already planning to have Madara be the actual leader of the Akatsuki.

Second we see another flashback with Itachi being nice to his younger brother, but more importantly we see the scene where Itachi is accused of killing Shisui. Itachi actualy displays emotion here and is for some reason upset with the Uchiha clan. Of course, it is anger, but the previous Itachi was always cool and dispassionate. If he wanted power why would he care if the Uchiha clan emphasized the clan first. I didn't really know what to make of this. Finding out later that Itachi was good and conflicted about what he needed to do makes immense sense here.

So the problem with this altering of history is that there are inconsistences, not just mars on the story. There is no way to fix it, and I wouldn't want Kishimoto to try. There is essentially a good and bad Itachi. Both exist at once, some sort of weird Doublethink. Also, good Itachi led to Madara and Danzo, and combined both Nine-Tailed Fox and the Uchiha massacre, thus entwining Naruto's and Sasuke's fate. That's cool, Kishimoto just was a step too slow in thinking it up.

Well according to Ibiki and Anko only the written test takers when to the Forest of death. Given their discussion about numbers.

Seems to me they must have been playing musical chairs during the written exam, that's why we never saw them. Kishimoto needs to do another Karin flashback, where Ibiki tells a subset of ninja to move every five minutes to make it harder to cheat off of one person.

Dude, Kishimoto has planned so many other things that hundreds of chapters later it was revealed. You read wayy to much into this. Chapter 7, Page 15. "That time.....Crying...." "Crying....My...." "...Only I can kill him!" And then in volume 43 he tells "tobi": "It turns out I wasnt imagining things. He was crying."

I know, soemone want's to say "Well, he was talkin' 'bout how him hisself was cryin'!" No he wasn't. "Again, That time...Crying... Crying, My..."
Who was crying? His what? His eyes?! Hahaha. He snapped out of it and said "Only I can kill him."

You notice how Kisame is always like, "Itachi, come on....Why do we always have to run when it gets fun?" Because when combat with multiple people becomes initiated, he makes sure Kisame won't kill anyone. And when they encountered Naruto they made a scene and ran off. Picture it being Hidan and Kakuzu. They would've snatched his ass up so fast that Jiraiya's head would spin. He's a little genin. Tell me again why he was there UNHARMED. Itachi had made his visit long enough only to tell sasuke to get stronger.

Understand that hes putting on an ACT. He's acting Malicious, but do his actions really match up to it? He knew Kakashi could take the tsukuyomi. He's a Leaf Jonin. He couldve killed him, but he didn't. I dont recall Itachi taking the life of a single person, as of his time in Akatsuki.

I know this was in shippuden, but also remember when they presumed Deidara took sasuke's life, Itachi was saddened.

Itachi wouldve played a bigger role in Akatsuki all together. He would've have been the reason they had 9 tails. Madara knew, but He had a bigger plan. (someone gave me a theory of theirs but I cant recall it at the moment. They thought itachi was a wierd nuisance.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

Dude, Kishimoto has planned so many other things that hundreds of chapters later it was revealed. You read wayy to much into this. Chapter 7, Page 15. "That time.....Crying...." "Crying....My...." "...Only I can kill him!" And then in volume 43 he tells "tobi": "It turns out I wasnt imagining things. He was crying."

I know, soemone want's to say "Well, he was talkin' 'bout how him hisself was cryin'!" No he wasn't. "Again, That time...Crying... Crying, My..."
Who was crying? His what? His eyes?! Hahaha. He snapped out of it and said "Only I can kill him."

You notice how Kisame is always like, "Itachi, come on....Why do we always have to run when it gets fun?" Because when combat with multiple people becomes initiated, he makes sure Kisame won't kill anyone. And when they encountered Naruto they made a scene and ran off. Picture it being Hidan and Kakuzu. They would've snatched his ass up so fast that Jiraiya's head would spin. He's a little genin. Tell me again why he was there UNHARMED. Itachi had made his visit long enough only to tell sasuke to get stronger.

Understand that hes putting on an ACT. He's acting Malicious, but do his actions really match up to it? He knew Kakashi could take the tsukuyomi. He's a Leaf Jonin. He couldve killed him, but he didn't. I dont recall Itachi taking the life of a single person, as of his time in Akatsuki.

I know this was in shippuden, but also remember when they presumed Deidara took sasuke's life, Itachi was saddened.

Itachi wouldve played a bigger role in Akatsuki all together. He would've have been the reason they had 9 tails. Madara knew, but He had a bigger plan. (someone gave me a theory of theirs but I cant recall it at the moment. They thought itachi was a wierd nuisance.

Sorry, no dice. Sasuke was refering to himself. He wasn't listening to Sakura's question. He was crying because of his brother. Kishimoto just tacked on the Itachi crying at the end.

We already saw that memory twice before. Sasuke fainted, now all of sudden Sasuke got back up and had sharingan. I call B.S. on this. Sasuke first used the sharingan against Haku. Not to mention the memory of Itachi crying just returned to Sasuke only after he heard Madara's story, he said so himself, thus Sasuke couldn't have been thinking about a memory he had lost.

Like I said before old evil Itachi was cautious and emotionless, not malicious. He was like Danzo. Good, angry, righteous Itachi was born during the Final Valley fight.

Itachi Twist it's like two ninja in one.