Chapter 479 Discussion

[The Demon Zabuza]

If Danzo dies, we have yet another person that Kishi has trolled.

He really gets about, doesn't he?

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by The Demon Zabuza

If Danzo dies, we have yet another person that Kishi has trolled.

He really gets about, doesn't he?

Just wondering what do you guys exactly mean by a character is "trolled"
because I was under the impression that trolling was basically spamming
in forums

[Reala]

Well atleast hopefully there will be no more sharingans!

[Bellicose Wolf]

I sincerely hope he does not die. I think Sasuke is far too overpowered, I say this because based on past descriptions of the strain put on Mangekyo users. It was previously stated that using Susanoo is like every cell in your body straining, and yet Sasuke manages to continue to implement it like he's using a tissue. Not to mention he's been dealt fatal blows countless times, and shows no Psychological repercussion, time and time again Sasuke mental fortitude is inflated to a degree that is unrealistic. I am truly hoping that Danzo obliterates Sasuke.

[AschenBlade]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

lol the sharingan isn't the only thing I complain about, and critique is something readers should do so I can do both complain about certain things and still enjoy the overall story/art/etc...

Just a question though...how did Danzou keep Izanagi "unpredictable"? Madara, Karin and Sasuke all realized how it works and he's almost out of eyes....

Sometimes he actually concludes the fight when he says he will at least the "fighting" part. I agree we'll probably see more of Sasuke for at least 2 more chapters but the actual fight can't last longer since they should both be out of chakra anyway.

I wouldn't quite call it "critiquing" when the majority of people on the forums are just looking for something to call over-powered. That wasn't aimed at you.

I didn't mean Danzou, I meant Kishimoto, he made it unpredictable for us.
Besides, Sasuke didn't even figure it out, he guessed. Which I thought was funny.

I was just pointing out that people shouldn't assume the fight is about to end, he said that the Naruto VS. Sasuke fight would end several times before it actually did, is all.

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I sincerely hope he does not die. I think Sasuke is far too overpowered, I say this because based on past descriptions of the strain put on Mangekyo users. It was previously stated that using Susanoo is like every cell in your body straining, and yet Sasuke manages to continue to implement it like he's using a tissue. Not to mention he's been dealt fatal blows countless times, and shows no Psychological repercussion, time and time again Sasuke mental fortitude is inflated to a degree that is unrealistic. I am truly hoping that Danzo obliterates Sasuke.

You can't talk like you understand Susanoo, you didn't make it, Kishimoto did. Besides, Sasuke said it hurt every cell in his body, I think we can assume he's hurting right now. Plus, I'm guessing you haven't noticed that Sasuke's been even more out of breath and has been bleeding because of it. The only reason Sasuke has been going this long is because of will power, he's determind, it gives him the ability to keep going, that's what Naruto uses. Also, don't say anything Kishimoto's done is "unrealistic," he's handled character development and relationships in a realistic manner, and all people due is say it's "unrealistic" because there's one thing they don't like, and act like it's the writer's fault.

[Bellicose Wolf]

I honestly doubt that the fight will actually occur. I have a feeling Naruto will become Hokage, will pardon Sasuke's crimes and a happily ever after ending will ensue. :l

[AschenBlade]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I honestly doubt that the fight will actually occur. I have a feeling Naruto will become Hokage, will pardon Sasuke's crimes and a happily ever after ending will ensue. :l

...What are you talking about?

[Bellicose Wolf]

I would say that it is indeed quite unrealistic and that's basing off of past examples Kishimoto has written. We often see active Psychological consequences based of off a multitude of different causes. Such as physical pain, emotional pain, psychological strain, and various other deviant problematic reasons. Sasuke seems to be the exception, it would seem that Kishimoto has done a good job in keeping up with making the reactions reasonable and evident in other characters but with Sasuke such is not the case. If you took time to read up on human cognition, and the different ways they function it may seem a bit more obvious. I could rant on the ridiculous in-proportionate function of the Sharingan alone for pages on end, but that is not what is at discussion per say. I will say this much though, based on former authorship of Kishimoto we are shown that to some degree the characters react to certain threats and possible interferences, such as when Naruto failed to hit Madara, it had a reasonable Psychological repercussion. Naruto was confused and the other team members were perplexed, the depth of that alone is enough for any behaviorist to rant about. As an example, when Naruto failed there was a small grace period of Naruto waiting for his expected reaction, and when he realized it had failed his mind switched to an investigative process hence lowering his defense for that period of mental ingress into the situation. Now if we applied the same common rules of human Psyche to Sasuke's current situation, and if it was in similarity to Naruto's realistic reaction, Sasuke would be crushed. The extreme complexity of Sasuke's combative choice is not concurrent with a congruent unified effort of attack or defense. He seems to have a limitless amount of this 'will-power' which is plain silly. Will-power has rules, the human body has rules, as does the psyche even in Kishimoto's manga. If they were congruent to Kishimoto's past choices of affective reasoning in combative situations Sasuke would be crushed. I'm done ranting...For now.

[AschenBlade]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I would say that it is indeed quite unrealistic and that's basing off of past examples Kishimoto has written. We often see active Psychological consequences based of off a multitude of different causes. Such as physical pain, emotional pain, psychological strain, and various other deviant problematic reasons. Sasuke seems to be the exception, it would seem that Kishimoto has done a good job in keeping up with making the reactions reasonable and evident in other characters but with Sasuke such is not the case. If you took time to read up on human cognition, and the different ways they function it may seem a bit more obvious. I could rant on the ridiculous in-proportionate function of the Sharingan alone for pages on end, but that is not what is at discussion per say. I will say this much though, based on former authorship of Kishimoto we are shown that to some degree the characters react to certain threats and possible interferences, such as when Naruto failed to hit Madara, it had a reasonable Psychological repercussion. Naruto was confused and the other team members were perplexed, the depth of that alone is enough for any behaviorist to rant about. As an example, when Naruto failed there was a small grace period of Naruto waiting for his expected reaction, and when he realized it had failed his mind switched to an investigative process hence lowering his defense for that period of mental ingress into the situation. Now if we applied the same common rules of human Psyche to Sasuke's current situation, and if it was in similarity to Naruto's realistic reaction, Sasuke would be crushed. The extreme complexity of Sasuke's combative choice is not concurrent with a congruent unified effort of attack or defense. He seems to have a limitless amount of this 'will-power' which is plain silly. Will-power has rules, the human body has rules, as does the psyche even in Kishimoto's manga. If they were congruent to Kishimoto's past choices of affective reasoning in combative situations Sasuke would be crushed. I'm done ranting...For now.

It looks to me like you were just grasping for your whining to be right that you just pulled whatever "smart words" you could find out of the air to confuse me, good going. The huge block of text doesn't help, either.

It's a manga. Manga and anime always put an emphasis on will-power, love, and hatred, and I believe that you can do a lot of things with just those emotions. You're basing all of this off of your own logic, you forget that emotions are what's important in a series.

"The extreme complexity of Sasuke's combative choice is not concurrent with a congruent unified effort of attack or defense. He seems to have a limitless amount of this 'will-power' which is plain silly. Will-power has rules, the human body has rules, as does the psyche even in Kishimoto's manga. If they were congruent to Kishimoto's past choices of affective reasoning in combative situations Sasuke would be crushed."

"Will-power" is not "silly," it's what keeps people going, that's always the focus of manga, it's the focus of Bleach. That's why Naruto is as strong as he is, he's never had natural talent, it has been will-power. If anyone had "unrealistic" will-power, it'd be him, but that's what makes his character.

The body has limits, yes, but that's why Sasuke will most likely end up in a coma by the time this fight is over, he's been bleeding, straining, and hardly breathing this whole time, I think he's reached his limit.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this stupid feud, if you want to whine about every little thing, be my guest. I don't plan on wasting my time arguing with people who try to find the body limit in manga.

Good luck with that.

[Bellicose Wolf]

I am not refuting the fact it is a manga, and I'm also not ignoring common recurring literary themes. At the same time I have already stated that my opinions are based off of events and cause and effect instances that have been purported by Kishimoto himself. For that matter it would be reasonably easy for one to point out conflicting instances in which this 'will-power' and chakra have been intertwined to the point of which no sensible or reliable analysis can be drawn.

As such, I find Sasuke to be vastly over powered, and if not that I do not know the word. Perhaps he is using a game-shark in his own world, or maybe he is eating Sensu beans. I agree that I will not 'feud' over such a subject, but I will discuss it. A key element in the Naruto world in explaining how to gauge character progression is by analyzing the rules, current and former boundaries, as well as assessing interdependently. Sasuke to me started off as a little larve and has somehow morphed into a being with limitless energy, and has somehow evolved his neurological form and base construction to withstand things others cannot, and has somehow eluded the need for neuro-chemical balance and regulation.

I win.

[AschenBlade]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I am not refuting the fact it is a manga, and I'm also not ignoring common recurring literary themes. At the same time I have already stated that my opinions are based off of events and cause and effect instances that have been purported by Kishimoto himself. For that matter it would be reasonably easy for one to point out conflicting instances in which this 'will-power' and chakra have been intertwined to the point of which no sensible or reliable analysis can be drawn.

As such, I find Sasuke to be vastly over powered, and if not that I do not know the word. Perhaps he is using a game-shark in his own world, or maybe he is eating Sensu beans. I agree that I will not 'feud' over such a subject, but I will discuss it. A key element in the Naruto world in explaining how to gauge character progression is by analyzing the rules, current and former boundaries, as well as assessing interdependently. Sasuke to me started off as a little larve and has somehow morphed into a being with limitless energy, and has somehow evolved his neurological form and base construction to withstand things others cannot, and has somehow eluded the need for neuro-chemical balance and regulation.

I win.

Yeah, I'd like to see you write a better story. Seriously.

Also, he's not "over-powered," it's called getting stronger. He's developing. His hatred has given him more strength, his will-power and love for his brother have given him the ability to fight back. That's all there is too it.

Don't talk like you understand chakra, that has always been one of the lamest arguments. We don't use chakra, how do we know when they're out?

"Game-Shark?" You really couldn't have found a better comparison?

Sasuke's supposed to be as strong as Naruto, he's his rival. They're supposed to trade back and forth with who-is-stronger.

I won't fight with you anymore, seeing as how you're obviously one of those people who hate characters for no reason and can't stand to listen when someone else makes a point about how they're not bad characters.

Don't blame Kishimoto just because you hate his characters is all I'm saying, he's done everything right.

I like how you finally spaced your paragraphs.

On a side note: Putting "I win" just shows your immaturity, and it'll just keep the fight going. So spam that word next post if you want, I'm not replying. That doesn't mean you've "won" whatever war you think this is, it just means that I don't like pointless arguments. Good luck "winning" future battles, dude.

[Bellicose Wolf]

Thanks for your support. I never explained what I have won, but your admittance of it is appreciated. This is oddly starting to sound like me trolling, but in all honesty I think Sasuke is overpowered, and I would push that fact to the end of any argument. I'm sorry you do not see it as I do, and are not willing to see it for what it is.

Also I find Naruto to be an amazing manga, one of my favorite of all time, but honestly Sasuke is just way too overpowered, and many of my friends concur. If you wish to extinguish this fine debate I will abide for now, though as a closing statement... Sasuke is one of my least liked characters, and personally should be in Naruto's kitchen where he belongs. (No sexism intended) But honestly and respectfully I am willing to debate all other topics regarding characters empirically and do my solemn best to offer a firm and fair opinion. But in regards to Sasuke, he should just learn his place, which is with Naruto.

P.S. Pardon if I offended, I meant to do no such thing, but I do enjoy flaming Sasuke when I can. ^-^

[royelric]

did they kill each other

[deidara330]

Chapter was friggin epic the giant elephant thing was huge and Danzo wind jutsu were freaking cool! This is way better than Sasuke VS Raikage, and there wasn't as much talking in this fight. Danzo is now my favorite antagonist that isn't in the Akatsuki. The chapter end was a major cliffhanger, I'm hoping neither of them die because if either of them died in this fight the plot would die with them, more so with Sasuke then Danzo.

[rocketjed1]

I liked this chapter more then the others for one single reason......Sasuke could die!

[Bellicose Wolf]

I totally agree with you rocketjed1! I sincerely hope he dies.

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by rocketjed1

I liked this chapter more then the others for one single reason......Sasuke could die!

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I totally agree with you rocketjed1! I sincerely hope he dies.

Please tell me what happens after Sasuke dies, but honestly Naruto just passed out at the thought of Sasuke being killed, and Sasuke was the entire reason Naruto left to train with Jiraiya. No way would Karin ever live it down, and Jugo can never again control his killing impulses. Sakura probably still loves him. Sasuke dies, the plot dies, simple as that.

[Ninetailed Sage]

Although I agree with everyone at the fact that sasuke could die,but if Danzo kills him, Naruto is going to get mad.....and possibly go after danzo and if danzo dies that could possibly ruin the plot because then naruto has no one else to beat up lol.

[Space Cowboy Sasori]

Wouldn't this mean that Madara is using Izanagi to become intangible all the since he has EMS?

Also, I hope we don't see Sasuke for awhile at least.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Originally Posted by The Demon Zabuza

If Danzo dies, we have yet another person that Kishi has trolled.

He really gets about, doesn't he?

I guess we could add Danzo to the "Trolled List", along with Kisame and some of the Akatsuki if he does die in this battle.