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Old 01-19-2010, 11:08 AM   #1
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Default Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

When Madara meets up with Danzo before the Sasuke vs Danzo fight he
says to Danzo that the last time they had met was during the "Uchiha Incident" this could mean several things. I think it was death of Shisui
at Nakano Shrine (which is most likely nearby Nakano River.)


Here's what I think happened.


Madara attacked the village using Nine Tails. He was stopped by the 4th Hokage. Later Danzo figured out that Madara was still alive and therefore
responsible for the Nine Tails attack. He probably found this out from Itachi
(or Itachi found it out from Danzo.) Having been weakened by the 4th Hokage (and the 1st) Madara could not fight Danzo (or Itachi) so Madara resorted to making a deal with Danzo to keep Danzo from talking.
That deal was for each of them to take one of Shisui's eyes, blame it on
Itachi. Eliminate the Uchiha Clan and also blame it on Itachi.
Madara has returned to face Danzo and make sure he keeps his mouth
shut on the Shisui Eye deal and that Madara used Nine Tails.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

First, if it was true why would Madara care if Danzou talks about "Shisui's eye"? I mean if he already has Shisui's eye what difference does it make wheather people find out about it or not? Madara is an Uchiha so him having a sharingan is no surprise and if he didn't mind showing up before the Kages to tell them he was still alive and what his plan is, I really don't see the importance of people knowing about Shisui's eye.

That is of course if it were true but I just don't think it is. As far as we know Minato couldn't hurt Madara, the only thing he was able to do was take the Kyuubi from him. Also if like you said Danzou met with Madara after that battle then at the time Danzou wouldn't have had all his sharingans (so no Izanagi) ... I doubt Madara couldn't get away from him if he had wanted to. And if they did make an agreement then, then they both killed Shisui and somehow Itachi awakened his MS and just for the sake of lying he told Sasuke he killed Shisui?
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Nha itachi did Kill Shisui. There is no other way He could activate is MS.. BUT! HE surely did this on danzo order which is was benific for both of them.As to see about, Did Madara really need Shisui Eyes? The "uchiha incident" can possibly be the uchiha massacre which Madara was behind this too.. There is a Possibility that Madara got Shuisui eyes too but one thing is sure. Itachi did Kill him ON danzo and madara tell him about how to gain the MS. Anyway, he was about to wipe out the whole clan! All he needed is to kill his bestfriend (shisui) to gain the MS. He just kill him before the massacre to be able to Kill all the other Uchiha..

Anyway, I'm sure soon we gonna know what's happened after the uchiha massacre. cause Itachi talked with danzo after and ordered to don't touch Sasuke. I'm sure we gonna see the flashback of the discussion with them and probably madara too.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3littlepigs View Post
First, if it was true why would Madara care if Danzou talks about "Shisui's eye"? I mean if he already has Shisui's eye what difference does it make wheather people find out about it or not? Madara is an Uchiha so him having a sharingan is no surprise and if he didn't mind showing up before the Kages to tell them he was still alive and what his plan is, I really don't see the importance of people knowing about Shisui's eye.

That is of course if it were true but I just don't think it is. As far as we know Minato couldn't hurt Madara, the only thing he was able to do was take the Kyuubi from him. Also if like you said Danzou met with Madara after that battle then at the time Danzou wouldn't have had all his sharingans (so no Izanagi) ... I doubt Madara couldn't get away from him if he had wanted to. And if they did make an agreement then, then they both killed Shisui and somehow Itachi awakened his MS and just for the sake of lying he told Sasuke he killed Shisui?
Itachi killed Shisui but was forced to by Danzo and Madara because
they wanted Shisui's eyes. Danzo didn't have the eyes at the time.

Shisui's second eye matters because that's how Yagura of the Hidden Mist was controlled.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

It's difficult to say exactly. What i believed happened is that Madara chose to use izanagi in his fight against Senju Hashirama and lost an eye. He was then weakened in his fight with Minato Namikaze, losing another sharingan, and realized that he wasnt powerful enough to oppose Konoha any longer. He decided he would side with Danzou and plan the Uchiha slaughter so that he can gain one eye from Shisui and Danzou the other. So now he only has his right eye which is less powerful than his previous two mangekyou sharingans.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

I don't think he was forced to do it but did it on his own. Itachi could had killed Danzo at that time and Danzo was afraid of him.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShikamaruGenius View Post
I don't think he was forced to do it but did it on his own. Itachi could had killed Danzo at that time and Danzo was afraid of him.

How was he forced?


Simple.

Threaten to have The Foundation kill Sasuke.
Even if Itachi killed Danzo he couldn't kill the entire Foundation.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Nhaa. I think the fact of not killing sasuke wasn't in the plan at first. And when Itachi leave Sasuke after the massacre. Itachi,Danzo and probably madara had a chat. For sure. Itachi didn't said to danzo to don't touch Sasuke and went kill all the uchiha. That part wasnt planned at all in the master plan.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Quote:
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Nhaa. I think the fact of not killing sasuke wasn't in the plan at first. And when Itachi leave Sasuke after the massacre. Itachi,Danzo and probably madara had a chat. For sure. Itachi didn't said to danzo to don't touch Sasuke and went kill all the uchiha. That part wasnt planned at all in the master plan.

Hm. Perhaps.

Well I still find it hard to believe that Itachi killed Shisui just for the heck of it. I really think Itachi was forced into killing Shisui.

I need to make a revised Ultimate Uchiha Theory but I'm just too lazy.
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

I agree with you that Itachi didn't kill Shisui just for the heck of it. I think Danzo forced him to AND he did not want the Uchiha to make a successful rebellion and take over the village.
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
Hm. Perhaps.

Well I still find it hard to believe that Itachi killed Shisui just for the heck of it. I really think Itachi was forced into killing Shisui.

I need to make a revised Ultimate Uchiha Theory but I'm just too lazy.
Well at least according to Madara's story, Itachi made a deal that he would kill the Uchiha clan and Madara would leave Konoha alone. Killing Shisui could be part of the plan. However, Madara also states that only Itachi knew of his existence.

So if Madara's telling the truth Danzo didn't know of Madara's existence, yet. Madara also said he didn't cause the nined-tailed fox attack, and I find that hard to believe. So in other words, your general theory could still be right.

Chapter 400 if you wondering where this is.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Quote:
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Itachi killed Shisui but was forced to by Danzo and Madara because
they wanted Shisui's eyes. Danzo didn't have the eyes at the time.

Shisui's second eye matters because that's how Yagura of the Hidden Mist was controlled.
What is it with you trying to prove Itachi was forced to kill Shisui? lol if I remember correctly this isn't the 1st time you've posted a theory about it.

Why would Madara want Shisui's eye? he had/has EMS so a regular sharingan just doesn't seem that big of a temptation to me...now if Shisui had MS I might think differently...and well if he did get it for some reason why would it matter if everyone knew? he's not Danzou! He's an Uchiha (and a traitor who also didn't mind taking his brother's eyes if I migh add) so it wouldn't surprise anyone at this point if he has 1) a sharingan 2) if he killed another Uchiha to get it.
Quote:
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How was he forced?


Simple.

Threaten to have The Foundation kill Sasuke.
Even if Itachi killed Danzo he couldn't kill the entire Foundation.
First, Danzou had no idea that Itachi's weak spot was Sasuke! I bet not even Itachi himself knew that until the night of the massacre when he couldn't kill Sasuke. So how could Madara and Danzou know that before he left Sasuke alive and begged the 3rd for his life?
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Well at least according to Madara's story, Itachi made a deal that he would kill the Uchiha clan and Madara would leave Konoha alone. Killing Shisui could be part of the plan. However, Madara also states that only Itachi knew of his existence.

So if Madara's telling the truth Danzo didn't know of Madara's existence, yet. Madara also said he didn't cause the nined-tailed fox attack, and I find that hard to believe. So in other words, your general theory could still be right.

Chapter 400 if you wondering where this is.
We know for a fact Madara lied to Sasuke when he said he wasn't responsible for the Kyuubi attack 16 yrs ago as both Itachi and Minato confirmed it. Of course Shisui's death was part of the plan! That's what I've been saying all along! lol Madara became Itachi's teacher so obviously he told him how to get MS..Itachi had to kill Shisui and I think the reason is pretty obvious.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

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Well I still find it hard to believe that Itachi killed Shisui just for the heck of it. I really think Itachi was forced into killing Shisui.
just for the heck of it?! He had to if he was ever going to complete his mission and protect Konoha. I know Itachi's power was amazing and he was a genius but he wouldn't have been able to survive the massacre just with a regular sharingan. He needed MS and Shisui needed to die for him to get it. I'm sure he didn't want to kill Shisui but then again I don't think he wanted to kill his mom, dad, and "lover" either and yet he did. He was forced by the circumstances not by someone....
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Tweak the theory slightly. Itachi killed Shisui then Danzou took the eye. I seem to be in the minority when I say that Madara still has a sharingan in each eye. Killing shisui is how he got the mangekyo. I believe he tells saskue this.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

i agree with you Ockinga
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:39 AM   #16
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

The very fact Danzo has Shisui's eye suggests that he was involved in his death.
Sure he could of just randomly come along and say "Oh. He's dead. Might as well
take his eye." But I really doubt that.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

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The very fact Danzo has Shisui's eye suggests that he was involved in his death.
Sure he could of just randomly come along and say "Oh. He's dead. Might as well
take his eye." But I really doubt that.
But he also has Hashirama's DNA and yet he didn't have anything to with his death....
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:33 PM   #18
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But he also has Hashirama's DNA and yet he didn't have anything to with his death....
Perhaps.
I just don't think Kishimoto is going to have Shisui's other eye go to waste.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

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Perhaps.
I just don't think Kishimoto is going to have Shisui's other eye go to waste.
So far Itachi's eyes seems a greater waste to me... anyway anything can happen especially since Kishi's obsessed with the sharingan.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Thoughts on the Danzo and Madara Connection

Sweet idea, I agree... it sounds like a possible understanding of it. I hope it's explained.

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I was surprised to find out that Danzo had a Sharingan!
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