In Defense of Danzo

[Wooster]

What you can’t believe someone would actually defend Danzo’s actions. Well, yes and no. I am going to defend some of Danzo’s point of view, but mainly defend his place as one of the more interesting antagonist to Naruto. Some claim Danzo is completely evil, which is not true, he his absolutely ruthless, but his goal is to defend Konoha. Others have a feeling that they like Danzo, which is certainly a fine view to have, but they put forth arguments that he will change to good guy. This will not happen Danzo is Danzo, and he will always be the way he is now. So what follows is my defense, sorry if came out much longer than I intended which at first was only going to related to recent events. I have divided it into sections that you can chose to read as you like. Also be warned, there are spoilers up to Chapter 478.

So what is Danzo, he is the absolute perfection of the old shinobi way. He completely removes emotion from his actions and does whatever is necessary to protect Konoha and the land of fire. This point of view has been shown many times from Zabuza to Granny Chiyo. But whereas Zabuza and others get a thrill from killing, Danzo kills when it is necessary to further his goals. So lets see how this attitude affects his actions in few case where people think he is evil.

Hokage Power Struggle

The first thing we learn about Danzo is that he doesn’t like the leadership style of Konoha, particularly the third Hokage and Tsunade. Now these characters are the protagonists, so Danzo is in opposition to the sympathy of the reader. However, Danzo’s reasons are not really that he desires power, but that he thinks the previous Hokage are poor leaders. In fact many of the other Kage in other lands that we know of are mostly like Danzo. The previous Mizukage were Madara or under his control and used harsh training style to kill emotions. The Kazekage used his own son to seal in Shukaku. However, Konoha is different, but they are the exception.

The question then is did the kind of leadership of the Hokage lead to problems, in many cases it did. In the third Hokage’s case Orochimaru experimented on fellow shinobi, and when he was found he fled. It was the third Hokage’s hesitation that allowed Orochimaru to live. Even Sarutobi himself realizes this mistake. The result of this hesitation is an international criminal on the loose. In Tsunade case, Sasuke was allowed to stay at large and has now become a threat to every nation. We also know the Third Great Ninja War started during the reign of the third Hokage, but we don’t have much details on this.

These reasons make Danzo doubtful of the Hokage leadership style, and he certainly is right that awful things have occurred. His emotionlessness and ruthlessness would certainly have result in different events with some of worst crimes of the day never happening. So we can understand Danzo’s desire to be Hokage not so much because he wants power and recognition, but because he believes he would be better. It is also worth while to mention that Danzo is proud that he is not well known and likes to operate behind the scenes. In otherwords, he is not in pursuit of self gratification.

Uchiha Massacre

One reason many hate Danzo is because of his role in the Uchiha massacre, and it certainly was a gruesome event. But the alternatives would most certainly have been worse. The attack of the Ninetails precipitated the destructive of the Uchiha clan. At least according to Minato, who probably is the most trustworthy, Madara caused this to happen. He mostly likely planned to split the Uchiha of from the rest of Konoha. Whatever the case, we know the Uchiha clan was preparing to at least take over Konoha, and this coup–de-tat would have resulted in many deaths.

At the time, the third Hokage wanted to negotiate, but was apparently overruled by his advisors and Danzo. It is interesting that the Third did not get his way, perhaps his failure with Orochimaru led to greater leeway being given to Danzo. It is also important to note that Itachi was the spy, so information regarding the Uchiha was very accurate and Itachi himself decided that he would massacre the entire clan. It may have been gruesome, but it is clear that most of the Uchiha were quite dangerous.

It also important to note, as we have seen recently, that Danzo seems to have a lot of respect for the fact that Itachi sacrificed himself for the good of the village. In particular, Itachi allowed himself to be viewed as a criminal. Danzo’s only disappointment is that he thinks Itachi revealed the true plot to Sasuke, which of course was actually due to Madara.

Betrayal after Betrayal, Scheme after Scheme

Danzo has certainly been involved in a lot of hidden schemes that are certainly shocking. Lets go through some of these to at least consider Danzo’s reasoning.

During the Third Great Ninja War, Danzo teamed up Hanzo and betrayed Yahiko and Nagato’s band of ninja resulting in Yahiko death. This betrayal was certainly important in Pain’s creation, however it was a pretty reasonable action on Danzo’s part. The war had continued for many years, no doubt Danzo blamed the current Hokage, so he formed an alliance with a very strong shinobi Hanzo. If Hanzo wanted help to remove a troublesome uprising in his country, Danzo probably thought that was a fair deal. We don’t the final result of this alliance, but it least seems a reasonable action to end a drawn out war.

Danzo also seemed to betray the Konoha to Orochimaru to become Hokage. However, his actual goal was to kill Sasuke. Now that nearly everyone except Naruto believes Sasuke should be killed, we can say that Danzo was just thinking ahead of everyone else. It also true that Danzo used Tsunade personal ANBU members to gain Orochimaru’s trust, but from his point of view damaging a weak Hokage is not a bad thing if this causes a stronger Hokage to be installed.

Danzo also killed the messenger frog that was going to bring Naruto back during the Pain invasion. First of all he only kill a frog, a talking frog no doubt, but still a frog. His reason for his action was because he did not want Pain to get the nine-tailed fox. The advisors again agreed with him, but Tsunade overwrote their wished. Tsunade did this because she believes in Naruto. Danzo does care about Naruto, but want to keep the ninetails safe. He did not try to fight Pain, but stayed hidden. He believed that Tsunade would save the life of most of the villagers. As it turned, he was right. If the rest of the village retreated as well more lives may not have been lost. Of course in the end it didn’t matter because Naruto convinced Pain to bring everyone back to life.

Danzo recently used Shisui’s Sharingan to try and control the Gokage summit. It is true this was devious, but from Danzo’s perspective the other Kage were not trustworthy, and his goal was to protect the ninja world from the Akatsuki and Madara.

Danzo’s Powers, Orochimaru, and Controlling the Ninetails

Recently we have learned that Danzo has many powers: Shisui’s Sharingan, an arm full of Sharingan and the First Hokage’s powers. Apparently, he is going to use all these to control Naruto/ninetails, and he got all these powers from Orochimaru, ‘Oh No’ Danzo’s evil. Well, hold on a minute, let’s examine this first.

First, Orochimaru use to be a Konoha shinobi so there is little evidence that Danzo was ever involved with the Akatuski. We know Orochimaru had experiments with the First’s DNA before he left the village. Danzo has somehow benefited from these experiments, which likely means he knew they were occurring. This is pretty disgusting that he allow these experiments, but unlike Orochimaru who was obsessed with finding all the jutsu of the world Danzo made this sacrifice similar to other Kage.

At some point Danzo added Sharingan to his arm, but it is unlikely that Orochimaru was involved. Danzo most likely got these Sharingan after the Uchiha massacre, where else would he get so many. The question is did he contact Orochimaru, not very likely. Orochimaru was obsessed with Sharingan, if Danzo brought Sharingan to him, Orochimaru most certainly would have kept some for himself. Why would he only give them to Danzo? After the massacre, the only available Sharinagan were Itachi’ and Sasuke’s. That is why Orochimaru was obsessed with being one of them.

With the First’s DNA in this arm. Someone else must have been able to graft the Sharingan into it. Implanting Shisui’s eye must have been straight forward as we’ve seen it can even be done in the battle field.

Madara thinks that Danzo is going to use the First’s power and the Sharingan to control the ninetails, this is probably true. From Danzo’s perspective this makes perfect sense. He saw the destruction the nine-tailed fox caused to the leaf village. He certainly does not want another nation to get their hands on this power. He probably was quite pleased that Minato sealed the power in Naruto. However, he also knows the Uchiha are dangerous, so he had them killed. He doesn’t want the Uchiha to control the ninetails, from his perspective they are probably emotional nutcases, but he also believes it needs to be controlled. Since he already has the First’s power, he probably believed if he also had the Sharingan he would be the best able to control it.

The Future of Danzo

Given all these facts, should we be rooting for Danzo? No, of course not. He will always be in opposition to Naruto and, if his wishes were completely carried out, he would probably kill Naruto. Danzo’s view is that of the old Shinobi way that peace is only brought about through the strength of the village and its ninja, preferable those with little emotion who don’t go on killing sprees because of revenge. Naruto is trying to find a new a path towards peace that was started by Jiraiya. We as readers should be rooting that Naruto succeeds.

Does that mean you should not like Danzo? No, go ahead and cheer for him when he completely dismisses Sasuke path. Right now Sasuke is nothing compared to Itachi, Danzo is right. Danzo and Naruto agree on the point of the meaninglessness of revenge. If you like watching Danzo smack Sasuke around enjoy that too. Do you love to hate Danzo? That’s fine as well. Danzo is certain to be an implacable enemy to Naruto. He is ruthless, clever, and knows when to retreat. In many ways he is like Madara, but he does not want to rule the world. Like Pain he wants peace in his own way, but instead of making everyone understand suffering, he wants to remove emotion that lead to pointless conflicts. But don’t needless despise Danzo and wish for his quick removal from this story. He is certainly going to be one of most interesting characters in the future.

What is the best we well wishers can hope for Danzo’s future, certainly not that he succeeds and Danzo's beliefs will never allow him to change. The best is that Danzo will lose to Naruto and realizes he has been bested. Perhaps he will tip his hat to the superior strength and drive of Naruto and return to his plotting in the darkness. Perhaps as he leaves we will just catch his last words: Old Shinobi never die, they just fade away.

Edit: An "Appendix" added on page 2 regarding Danzo's Death.

[ECW Original]

.............?

[Wooster]

Sorry about that the text isn't coming through. I am working on it.

[3littlepigs]

First how long did it take you to write all of that? second just a few things I want to say about your post:

• While I agree that he truly believes anything and everything he's doing is for Konoha's sake just the fact that he considers himself to be worthy and better is proof that he is in pursuit of self gratification and part of him is doing what he's doing because of his ego.
• It's funny how he respects Itachi for sacrificing himself for Konoha but he won't even put himself in danger or try to sacrifice himself for the sake of anyone. I can still see him underground with all the members of ROOT just waiting until Pain was done destroying the village. He doesn't even have the guts to challenge Tsunade instead he waits for her to die on her own...such a coward.
• Now with this I can agree...Sasuke is a danger so killing him was a decision long overdue. The ANBU part was just disgusting I don't care what the goal was putting in danger all those shinobi without even caring is not how a true leader would act.
• I was discussing this with someone else in another site and here's another "theory" as to why he killed the frog. Now we know Danzou really wants the Kyuubi (for his own power or to "protect" Konoha) either way he has no way of extracting the Bijuu from Naruto. Right now Madara can but only because of Gedo Mazou, Danzou's not stupid so I'm sure he knew Pa and Naruto would eventually realize something was wrong in Konoha had he killed the messenger frog or not. Now let's assume he knew that, then he killed the Frog knowing Naruto would arrive anyway just not as fast but by killing the frog he allowed Pain to completely destroy the village which he knew would only make Naruto even more angry. Since Danzou has no way of extracting the Bijuu the only way for him to get his hand on the Kyuubi is if Naruto releases the seal which would've happened had Minato not interfered.

Like you said we can't expect Danzou to change but we also don't have to like him /support him. As for me right now I'm really enjoying him kicking Sasuke's butt and I couldn't agree more with everything he told Sasuke. Even Sasuke knows it's true that's why it hurts...usually he just gets rid of people that tell him the truth straight to his face but he hasn't been able to get rid of Danzou yet lol

[ShippudenGirl]

I am definitely NOT a Danzou fan but... [Do NOT read if you didn't read 478]

-He does wanna defend Konoha
*Argument: Wants to make Konoha how he wants it
-He wants to make sure Madara doesn't get the tailed beast
*Arguement: But wants to see Naruto dead thats why he got Shodia's cells to control Kyuubi
-He wants Sasuke dead
*Argument: Naruto would be crushed but...
-It would save Konoha if he kills Sasuke and/or Madara
-He saved Konoha before, because the Uchiha's want to take over Konoha but he had them killed by Itachi
[Updated on Manga]

[deidara330]

Before I read your post, I already knew that Danzo's actions were to defend the village. I knew he didn't do anything for his own personal gain, and that he steeled his emotions to do what he thought he had to do. But that's exaactly his problem. In most of these situations, if he had merely had a little trust in Naruto, Nagato, Sarutobi, or some other guy, a better solution could've been found. I disagree with the above posts, he has done nothing for his own self-gratification. In fact, he does everything for the good of the village and it's people. His problem isn't that he wants all the power, his problem is that he thinks he's the only one who can use the power properly. He implanted Sharingan into his right eye and right arm, and implanted enough of Hashirama's cells to make an entire face on his shoulder. He wastes tons of chakra in his fight trying to kill Sasuke. He alters his own body to such extremes, IMO, because he believes he's the only one who can lead the Leaf Village to an era of peace. He trusts only himself, and he doesn't rely on anyone else, or depend on anyone else. He's alone. He's too extreme in his beliefs about Shinobi, which leads him to do immoral things, such as killing a frog summon and allowing countless Leaf Villagers to die. He didn't allow Sarutobi to negotiate with the Uchiha because he believed it was impossible, and he didn't have any faith that Sarutobi could stop the tragedy. Moreover, if he had known the Ninetails was under the control of an Uchiha, he would've wanted to kill the Uchiha. He wouldn't want anyone else to have access to such a power, as he would believe he's the only one who can be trusted not to misuse that power. He does what he does to achieve his goals because he thinks that there's no other way. His trust in ROOT is mock trust. He uses them, and doesn't consider them anything more than sacrifices to reach his goal. Fuu and Torune were captured by Madara. He likely knew that would happen, but rather than retreat, he sent out Fuu and Torune and prepared himself for battle. He sacrificed them, believing that in doing so he would buy himself the time to discover Madara's secrets and kill Madara. I imagine all of his beliefs can be traced back to some backstory where he trusts people and their emotions get in the way and they let him down.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

First how long did it take you to write all of that? second just a few things I want to say about your post:

Yeah it was much longer than I wanted. How long did take me to write? maybe about an hour. But after writing a few hundred page thesis that was nothing.

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

While I agree that he truly believes anything and everything he's doing is for Konoha's sake just the fact that he considers himself to be worthy and better is proof that he is in pursuit of self gratification and part of him is doing what he's doing because of his ego.

I guess I disagree with this point the most. There are two major reason why he considers himself better, Orochimaru and Sasuke. He really believes the other Hokage have screwed up. Also, when he was attacked by the ninja on the way to summit he was proud that before others didn't know who he was. I think if there was a Hokage that he agreed with, he would have no problem giving them the power.

Originally Posted by deidara330

His problem isn't that he wants all the power, his problem is that he thinks he's the only one who can use the power properly.

I think you are at least partial right here. Of course part of the reason he thinks he is so smart is becasue he is. To use a literary and historical reference: he is Cardinal Richelieu of France who is the power and brains behind the bumbling King Loius XIII.

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

It's funny how he respects Itachi for sacrificing himself for Konoha but he won't even put himself in danger or try to sacrifice himself for the sake of anyone. I can still see him underground with all the members of ROOT just waiting until Pain was done destroying the village. He doesn't even have the guts to challenge Tsunade instead he waits for her to die on her own...such a coward.

I think you have reinforced my point about Danzo not being proud. He does care if he is considered a coward. However, if he saw an advantage in attacking Pain he woud have. Danzo is practical to a fault.

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

Now with this I can agree...Sasuke is a danger so killing him was a decision long overdue. The ANBU part was just disgusting I don't care what the goal was putting in danger all those shinobi without even caring is not how a true leader would act.

Yes it was heartless, but how else was he going to gain Orochmaru's trust. Not that this would be a decission I would make, but Danzo's perspective they were pawns to sacrifice. Also, in the end no harm came from it. If this want Danzo predicted, who knows?

Originally Posted by deidara330

His trust in ROOT is mock trust. He uses them, and doesn't consider them anything more than sacrifices to reach his goal. Fuu and Torune were captured by Madara. He likely knew that would happen, but rather than retreat, he sent out Fuu and Torune and prepared himself for battle. He sacrificed them, believing that in doing so he would buy himself the time to discover Madara's secrets and kill Madara.

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

Like you said we can't expect Danzou to change but we also don't have to like him /support him.

But you would least admit he is quite the interesting villian.

Originally Posted by deidara330

I imagine all of his beliefs can be traced back to some backstory where he trusts people and their emotions get in the way and they let him down.

I hope not, I would lose all my enjoyment from watching him if this were the case. I hope baby Danzo just after birth ordered his mom to sacrifice herself for the good of the village.

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Yeah it was much longer than I wanted. How long did take me to write? maybe about an hour. But after writing a few hundred page thesis that was nothing.


I guess I disagree with this point the most. There are two major reason why he considers himself better, Orochimaru and Sasuke. He really believes the other Hokage have screwed up. Also, when he was attacked by the ninja on the way to summit he was proud that before others didn't know who he was. I think if there was a Hokage that he agreed with, he would have no problem giving them the power.

LOL Oh ok well it was really well written
No, he was against Sarutobi before Oro and obviously before Sasuke. I get it he doesn't agree with the 1st's teachings (therefore he doesn't agree with all the previous Hokages plus Kakashi) but to me the fact that he thinks so highly of himself is not something positive. He is no different from Oro and Madara in that aspect, more proof? How he tried to take control of the Kage alliance...if being Hokage was his goal just to protect the village then he would've been ok with another Kage being elected as the alliance leader but he didn't even give them the benefit of the doubt because he's so full of himself. I mean I really dislike the Raikage but even he didn't trust Danzou that's because Danzou is the kind of person who would sacrifice everything and everyone just to get what he wants which is just power/control.

He's not stupid that's for sure but there's always someone better out there..but he's not humble enough to admit it that's why I say he is looking for selfgratitude.

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think you have reinforced my point about Danzo not being proud. He does care if he is considered a coward. However, if he saw an advantage in attacking Pain he woud have. Danzo is practical to a fault.

Yes it was heartless, but how else was he going to gain Orochmaru's trust. Not that this would be decission I would make, but Danzo's perspective they were pawns to sacrifice. Also, in the end no harm came from it. If this want Danzo predicted, who knows?

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.
But you would least admit he is quite the interesting villian.

I don't see how I have....what I was trying to say is it's easy to feel "proud" of someone else's sacrifice because it's not yours. He would never sacrifice himself because he's better than anyone.

He could've given him the pictures of ROOT members...most likely Oro would'n't have noticed (well except for Yamato's picture)

I don't know if he's the best villain in the series..he's persistent and egotistical I'll give him that.

[AshBradford]

I used to loath Danzo, but he's recently started winning me over a little. In the current fight he's just said too many things that I've been thinking. I don't want to like him, but it's starting to go that way.

[Parak111]

I really don't hate Danzo. However, his actions are confusing. At one moment he seems like a good guy, but right at the next one he goes all evil like. I really don't know what his purpose is. I'm more curious about his connection with Orochimaru though.

[Wooster]

This might start getting a little messy, I just edited my previous post that responses to some of your other points. See above.

In regards to whether Danzo is arrogant, I will try to square the circle between us. First of all we don't know much about why he didn't like the First's teaching, maybe becasue they were so different from the other Kage. But I will conceed the point that Danzo does think overmuch of his intelligience, but I still can't give you self graditude. If he was wrong about something he would change his course. You have to admit once he lost Hokage to the Third he didn't go around and complain about it, such as Madara, he just used other methods to defend the village, most of which are in secret with no recognition.

Oh and thank you for the compliment.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Parak111

I really don't hate Danzo. However, his actions are confusing. At one moment he seems like a good guy, but right at the next one he goes all evil like. I really don't know what his purpose is. I'm more curious about his connection with Orochimaru though.

See this is what I was trying to explain. If Danzo actions seem good at one point and evil the next it is because of his belief system. We will use Naruto as pure good and Madare as pure evil. Danzo's beliefs do not align completely with either, but they do overlap. So in some cases he would do the same as Naruto, defend Konoha, and in others the same as Madara, sacrifice his men.

Originally Posted by AshBradford

I used to loath Danzo, but he's recently started winning me over a little. In the current fight he's just said too many things that I've been thinking. I don't want to like him, but it's starting to go that way.

Yes, come to the dark side. You know you want to.

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think you are at least partial right here. Of course part of the reason he thinks he is so smart is becasue he is. To use a literary and historical reference: he is Cardinal Richelieu of France who is the power and brains behind the bumbling King Loius XIII.

I do agree, he is smart to an extent. Although his methods are, err, questionable, they do get the job done. Sadly I'm not as litterary as you are (or at least appear to be) and have no idea what that analogy means.

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.

That was my point exactly. He sacrifices them because he thinks he doesn't need them, and that he's the only one he can honestly rely on. The only times he ever had someone do something for him was because they had some ability he didn't have, or because he knew the person who performed said task would die.

I hope not, I would lose all my enjoyment from watching him if this were the case. I hope baby Danzo just after birth ordered his mom to sacrifice herself for the good of the village.

You see, I hope the opposite. Your analysis of his character is quite good, but Danzo is portrayed as and more popularly viewed as an antagonist. He is, too, since he opposes the main character of the story, making him an antagonist. And all great antagonist have a good backstory, or at least most of them. You can even find a few real-life examples of this. When you give a character a backstory it adds a new level of depth to the character. Pain was evil, yes, but when you learn about how he ended up to be what he is, you feel a certain sadness that someone so good turned out so bad. Orochimaru has a backstory, although not much more of a backstory than Sasori. Madara was given a backstory, and although all it does is show he was never a good person, it gives him a sense of really being the true antagonist. If not a good backstory, then Danzo at least deserves more character developement than what he already has.

[Wooster]

Sorry about the reference: The Three Musketeers. I unfortanelty don't read much manga, so I could only pull from that source. Incidentally, to anyone who likes the serial nature of manga, you should do yourself the favor and read anything by Alexandre Dumas.

I agree back stories are good to an extent, but I really dislike: my mommy and daddy are dead so I am going to destroy the world. Which is why I have no use for Pain at all. Besides my flippant comment about baby Danzo, I think Danzo has enough back story already except perhaps the conflict during which the Third was chosen. Not to go back to my refernce, but what makes villians interesting is their interplay with the heros. Some of the best villians lose in the end but hold a grudging respect for the hero.

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by Wooster

In regards to whether Danzo is arrogant, I will try to square the circle between us. First of all we don't know much about why he didn't like the First's teaching, maybe becasue they were so different from the other Kage. But I will conceed the point that Danzo does think overmuch of his intelligience, but I still can't give you self graditude. If he was wrong about something he would change his course. You have to admit once he lost Hokage to the Third he didn't go around and complain about it, such as Madara, he just used other methods to defend the village, most of which are in secret with no recognition.

Oh and thank you for the compliment.

You're welcome

Yes, Hashirama's teachings were different from all the other Kages but he started the village system and the Kage position as well so we might as well say all the other Kages acted differently from him. From what I understand he doesn't like Hashirama's teaching because he finds it creates a weak system and so puts the village in unnecessary danger but really there was nothing during the 1st or the 2nd's time as Hokage that puts Konoha in danger except Madara. That had nothing to do with the 1st's teachings but more with how Madara's pride was hurt.

Once he lost he didn't go around complaining but instead made sure everyone thought he was crippled. Not only that but at least Madara came back to take what he thought belonged to him in what you can call a fair fight...Danzou's worst because he attacks from within. Yes, it's smart but it's just wrong..I mean as a shinobi (ANBU, jonin etc) you should at least be able to count on/rely on others from your own village but instead they have to watch their backs inside their village too because they never know when ROOT and Danzou might do something. Yes, Danzou did things for the village things that even now he's not recognized for but it was just while he waited to get rid of Tsunade.

[Akatsuki X]

wow....this is like a college paper o_0
very paper-thesis style of writing too
and all of the responses are rather long as well

and I just find it upsetting how Danzo went from being a rather "unimportant" character
to having a major part int he plot and having all of these exceptionally powerful abilities.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

You're welcome

Yes, Hashirama's teachings were different from all the other Kages but he started the village system and the Kage position as well so we might as well say all the other Kages acted differently from him. From what I understand he doesn't like Hashirama's teaching because he finds it creates a weak system and so puts the village in unnecessary danger but really there was nothing during the 1st or the 2nd's time as Hokage that puts Konoha in danger except Madara. That had nothing to do with the 1st's teachings but more with how Madara's pride was hurt.

Once he lost he didn't go around complaining but instead made sure everyone thought he was crippled. Not only that but at least Madara came back to take what he thought belonged to him in what you can call a fair fight...Danzou's worst because he attacks from within. Yes, it's smart but it's just wrong..I mean as a shinobi (ANBU, jonin etc) you should at least be able to count on/rely on others from your own village but instead they have to watch their backs inside their village too because they never know when ROOT and Danzou might do something. Yes, Danzou did things for the village things that even now he's not recognized for but it was just while he waited to get rid of Tsunade.[/LEFT]

Okay, Okay, yes Hashirama was the first. But the Senju clan was the strongest so they had the luxury to be softer. Perhaps Danzo realized when the First and Second were gone, Konoha's advantage would disappear.

You got me again being too glib, yes at first Madara tried to encourage
Uchiha to revolt and when they wouldn't, he attacked directly. After he lost he plans vengance on both Konoha and the Uchiha clan. After that he used a more indirect attack than Danzo has every used. He had the nine-tailed fox attack Konoha leading to suspicion of the Uchiha. This distrust caused the Uchiha clan to plan to revolt. And finally he helped Itachi massacre his entire clan. Unlike Danzo, Madara holds grudges a long time for those whom offend his pride. Madara did complain though, what do you call his sob story to Sasuke. I think that's another difference between Danzo and Madara, Danzo would never waste his time getting revenge. He didn't try to attack the Sarutobi because he was named the third Hokage. I don't know how you got me to verbally attack Madara, I really like him too.

I don't know if I am convinced that Danzo is actively trying to bring Tsunade down. Remember he has been around through a number of Hokage, though maybe he believes Tsunade is the weakest of all. No harm came from giving away the ANBU list, true that was because Yamato retreived it. Danzo also didn't plan the Pain attack, he just chose to lay low. Of course, if Danzo calculated that the attack would leave Tsunade near death and that Pain would revive all those actually dead, thus still allowing Tsunade to die later, I will build a momument to Danzo and proclaim his genius to everyone I meet.

Originally Posted by Akatsuki X

wow....this is like a college paper o_0
very paper-thesis style of writing too
and all of the responses are rather long as well

and I just find it upsetting how Danzo went from being a rather "unimportant" character
to having a major part int he plot and having all of these exceptionally powerful abilities.

Thanks, I will take that as compliment, though the massive length is a bit of an embrassment.
Yeah, chose not to comment on too powerup ect. There is too much here already, and its mainly a subjective arguement.

[Manda]

Rampart of text hurts my eyes. @/_\@

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Okay, Okay, yes Hashirama was the first. But the Senju clan was the strongest so they had the luxury to be softer. Perhaps Danzo realized when the First and Second were gone, Konoha's advantage would disappear.

If he really did that then he's beyond being a genius...he can see the future. Otherwise there was no way of knowing that Sarutobi would have Oro as an apprentice and that Oro would betray Konoha etc...if Hashirama and Tobirama chose Sarutobi is because they believed he was the right person to ensure Konoha's safety and prosperity. Danzou was just jelous...

Originally Posted by Wooster

You got me again being too glib, yes at first Madara tried to encourage
Uchiha to revolt and when they wouldn't, he attacked directly. After he lost he plans vengance on both Konoha and the Uchiha clan. After that he used a more indirect attack than Danzo has every used. He had the nine-tailed fox attack Konoha leading to suspicion of the Uchiha. This distrust caused the Uchiha clan to plan to revolt. And finally he helped Itachi massacre his entire clan. Unlike Danzo, Madara holds grudges a long time for those whom offend his pride. Madara did complain though, what do you call his sob story to Sasuke. I think that's another difference between Danzo and Madara, Danzo would never waste his time getting revenge. He didn't try to attack the Sarutobi because he was named the third Hokage. I don't know how you got me to verbally attack Madara, I really like him too.

LOL maybe you like Danzou a lot more than Madara...
Yeah, I was referring more to his first attack...lol at Madara complaining I mean everyone complains (although I'm pretty sure no one as much as Sasuke) especially all the villains with Danzou being no exception. When confronted with the truth he's always complaining about past situtations and saying how he's the best and what he could do /could've done to make sure those things don't happen/didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Wooster

I don't know if I am convinced that Danzo is actively trying to bring Tsunade down. Remember he has been around through a number of Hokage, though maybe he believes Tsunade is the weakest of all. No harm came from giving away the ANBU list, true that was because Yamato retreived it. Danzo also didn't plan the Pain attack, he just chose to lay low. Of course, if Danzo calculated that the attack would leave Tsunade near death and that Pain would revive all those actually dead, thus still allowing Tsunade to die later, I will build a momument to Danzo and proclaim his genius to everyone I meet.

Tsunade might be the weakest in "power" but I don't think any other Hokage could've saved that many people during Pain's attack (I mean if Pain hadn't revived everyone at the end). I seriously doubt he knew Pain would revive everyone...I'm pretty sure he was counting on Naruto releasing the seal and losing control to the Kyuubi.

[Densetsu_no_D]

I agree with the original poster that Danzo isn't evil per say. He has always just done things for the safety and survival of the village. He has been ruthless and has done things the old shinobi way. I don't agree with his methods at all but I can understand his view of the world and how he feels about the Senju way of thinking...