A question about Christianity. - Page 3

ItachiAnbu · 08-24-2009, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

and you know this because? Dont say the bible or anything like that. do you have proof that Jesus was actually the son of god? HARD PROOF EVIDENCE. There i hard proof that he was the son of Mary.

You don't need evidence, religeon is all about believing. I just stated what I believe. Question it if you must. I am going to say the Bible. Because religeon is all about belief. Asking for proof of it is vain, because you know that there is no proof. It's just what a group of people believe.

My point was that, if I had a son, I would find it hard to give him away. Therefore I must assume that this God, if he exists, is a loving, compassionate God.

Colt45thrwngstar · 08-25-2009, 10:12 PM

First off.

<---- Southern Baptist. NOT you’re Typical Southern Baptist either.

Second off.

Your 'summary' is very generic, OP. It also manages to catch the 'simple' beliefs of most Christians, and in some cases is more accurate to the actual picture than some Christian’s beliefs. Fact of the matter is, most Christians these days are so caught up in the 'bible is whole truth' mentality, that they fail to even realize that they are pulling snippets and quotes out, and applying them to things as if it was written for that situation, rather than understanding, that the bible is intended as a progressive, human-interpreted, revelation of God to his people.

I'll state that again.

The bible is a progressive revelation of God to his people

simple enough to understand? Likely not. Let me expound. Old Testament vs. new. Punishment for many things is death, usually by stoning. Harsh right? God also required sacrifices to atone for sins. Harsh right? New Testament, Jesus stops a gal from being stoned for what was a stone-death punishable offence. Wait what? He's Gods son, should uphold the law, right? Ok, look at what happened later, he was the last sacrifice, by a people chosen by God, if unwitting, to atone for sin. He knew that, so her sins were forgiven, he forgave them.

By now your either not reading, or thinking I'm a loon. What I'm getting at is, that at the time each portion of the 'story' happened, not all of the facts were known, and then later at the time the stories were written down, enough time had passed that several events are no longer accurate, but rather written according to human interpretation of memory. .. And have been further interpreted with each translation.

Allot of Christians -wrongly- believe that geneses is 100% fact that it really happened that fast. Well, frankly, reading the rest of the bible, that ain't God's style.

I don't know if its fact, but I -do- know that what we perceive as time is relative even to us. So how can we say that to God 7 of our days are 7 of his? Rather, I believe that 7 days of time is a relative, semi-arbitrary timeline chosen by the author (unknown) of Genesis. A method of explaining how we came to be, one that made/makes, more sense when you look at it in a relative light, than other creation stories, but still has so many holes that you can't possibly hold it up as 100% fact

Its vague on purpose, to provide a window for faith, that -yes- there is a God, and -yes- he did create the universe.

Jumping back to the topic of Jesus, one aspect of god, if you will . . . the 'forgiving' aspect of him. Sacrificed himself, to save his people, opening himself to all people who come to him on faith. By the time the Jesus story rolls around, you have a softened, more advanced, and more civilized people from the nearly 100% nomadic style of life in the Old Testament. Man has become more civilized, more organized. God is able to reveal more to mankind, and redeem them finally for their sin, and provide a path for them to come to him, without the continuing sacrifices, enabling man to become more civilized. So, Jesus was the sacrifice, God was the one who made the sacrifice, because he required it.

Now, as far as the progression of 'some dudes in the middle east' Well, Archaeological evidence puts man in the middle eastern lands -long- before in other areas of the world, Archaeologically, and Anthropologically speaking, it was the 'epicenter' of civilization, with the rest of the world populating and spreading in the nomadic tribal lifestyles as civilization advanced. Conquest easily captured those areas, spreading civilization faster, with, North, and South America, arguably being the last 'conquered' zones before we began to try and -not- weed out tribal lifestyles . . . instead now we study them.

Why would God only reveal his incarnation to that one group of people? That was all he needed to do for humanity.

Does God expect us to share this same message to 'Aliens'? No. It doesn't -fit- for them, they did not endure the same circumstances as we did, if they exist.

Are there aliens out there? Two ways to look at this from a Christian perspective.
1. God created Man in his image; therefore we are the pinnacle of God's work
2. God created the universe in its infiniteness to display his awesomeness, and all that is within it. To assume that Man is the crown of that is to have an ego that rivals God in size, and therefore is an unsafe assumption. God would have done -something- with the rest of that space, as continuing to create more, would be further to his glory.

Again, these are -human- assumptions about God, and therefore can be completely incorrect.

Suffice it to say, that your summary of Christian Belief is a little too long. What it ultimately amounts to, is that Christians Believe in God, that God reveals himself to them through the human touch of the bible, and subtle movements of the heart (or wherever your cultures seat of emotion is). And that God sacrificed of himself to provide a path to redemption for man's early sin, and continuing sin, and that ultimately, there is redemption into Gods Company.

This is the point where I state this. . . Is it possible that mankind's multiple religions are all trying to get to the same god? Yes it is. Is it possible that everyone has the picture wrong? Yes it is. Is it possible that rather than God existing in the universe that he -is- the universe? Yes it is.

Frankly, to a Christian, or to anyone of any religion, it doesn’t matter. What –does- matter is that they believe that specific way; why do I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost? Looking at the bible in the light I put it in, as a Progressive, Humanized, Revelation of God to his people. . . It makes sense. It developed humanity into what it is, and is continuing to shape it.

Now, to answer the question of why I say I am Southern Baptist? I was born in Texas, I was Baptized, I was raised in a Christian home with the freedom to come to know religion and choose at my will. With an example of what Christianity is –really- supposed to be about. You’d have to know my family to understand what I speak of here, but the short of it is. . .

I believe what I believe because I can feel God in it, and understand that I cannot understand him in a full way, and therefore seek to understand what he gives of himself to us, through human revelation.

Or, if you’re the type to skip the wall of text, read the first paragraph and the last paragraph, ‘I’m a kooky christian!’

CrimsonCatClan · 08-26-2009, 12:25 AM

There is always only one messenger... whether it be Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, or any other bringer of faith. If one chooses to believe in God, then may hap these are all messengers of one being that are sent to different peoples to identify with their cultures. Maybe we are the ones misinterpreting everything.

Sabra Kusabana · 08-26-2009, 12:42 AM

Why in the world would an all powerful God need to sent an incarnation as just one person? Why would it have to be a person to begin with? Really.

The Bible is a book written by man, it's a great one, but it should not be taken as the one and only truth. The faith itself is quite beautiful, but to take it as the full truth is to turn a blind eye to all others that exist. I think that if you don't acknowledge that the other's have basis that you're not seeing things clearly. I don't care if you believe it or not, but it must be remembered that the Holy Book was written by men, flawed men, as are we all flawed, so too were they.

I personally believe that he (If it is a He really... Does a God have a sex?) reveiled himself to them because they were his chosen people. I acknowledge that there could be more then one god, so it's no stretch for me to say he was their god, but that he wasn't really to be everyone's god. He rose to that by means of his followers, like any leader would do.

The question of does the bible detail the only path to heaven is complicated. Maybe the path to His heaven... To everyone's heaven, or their God's heaven, probly not. It's a great guideline for being kind and just to those you encounter, but beyond that I'm just not able to say.

CrimsonCatClan · 08-26-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabra Kusabana

Why in the world would an all powerful God need to sent an incarnation as just one person? Why would it have to be a person to begin with? Really.

Because if he revealed himself as a talking camel or cat, he would have been chopped into little pieces and burned in a pit for having an evil tongue. I know that if a flaming bush talked to me, I would beat it out and run for the hills... Hm mayhap that is how Moses discovered the 10 commandments... He just tripped on them.

Sabra Kusabana · 08-26-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonCatClan

Because if he revealed himself as a talking camel or cat, he would have been chopped into little pieces and burned in a pit for having an evil tongue. I know that if a flaming bush talked to me, I would beat it out and run for the hills... Hm mayhap that is how Moses discovered the 10 commandments... He just tripped on them.

He was feeling for his life, and then... Trip, oh look stones with words all over them. I'll take these down and present them to my fellows as God's word.

CrimsonCatClan · 08-26-2009, 12:57 AM

Some poor hermit was wandering around afterwards looking for his house rules! Now the Hermits United will never be kept in order when they meet up to talk about their caves.

Sabra Kusabana · 08-26-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonCatClan

Some poor hermit was wandering around afterwards looking for his house rules! Now the Hermits United will never be kept in order when they meet up to talk about their caves.

I can seem him now. Sitting by the light of the burning bush having to recarve all of his house rules, and wondering why this damn fire keeps talking at him.

CrimsonCatClan · 08-26-2009, 01:08 AM

We digress! This is still Judeism! Christianity is the one where people slaughtered each other to force people into their belief! I don't think that this was what Jesus was trying to instil when he died for the sins of the people. *Sigh* being a martyr only gets you killed! No one learns anything but your name!

Sabra Kusabana · 08-26-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonCatClan

Being a martyr only gets you killed! No one learns anything but your name!

No no dear... They use your death as reason to take vengence upon those that killed you, going completely against what you tried to teach them.

ThunderSpirit · 08-26-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt45thrwngstar

Does God expect us to share this same message to 'Aliens'? No. It doesn't -fit- for them, they did not endure the same circumstances as we did, if they exist.

Are there aliens out there? Two ways to look at this from a Christian perspective.
1. God created Man in his image; therefore we are the pinnacle of God's work
2. God created the universe in its infiniteness to display his awesomeness, and all that is within it. To assume that Man is the crown of that is to have an ego that rivals God in size, and therefore is an unsafe assumption. God would have done -something- with the rest of that space, as continuing to create more, would be further to his glory.

Again, these are -human- assumptions about God, and therefore can be completely incorrect.

I don't use the word "alien" meaning little green men. I mean that Judaism and its spiritual children Christianity and Islam are religions that are alien (that means "foreign" it has nothing to do with outer space) to the the rest of the world that is not Jewish or even Middle Eastern. What I mean is that these are Middle Eastern religions that have risen to prominence among people, Europeans, Africans, Asians, Native Americans, that had their own religions and customs before. Why should everyone abandon their own ancient set of beliefs and customs in favor of new and foreign ones.

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I was talking about extraterrestrials, but I hope that clears things up.

KagamineNaruto · 08-26-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSpirit

My question is why did this god only send his incarnation to one group of people and then all other peoples must accept the story second hand. If a god created all people, then why not send an incarnation to enlighten everyone simultaneously?

Well, I'm Christian, and was raised in a Christian family.
Didn't Jesus say to spread the word? It's our choice whether we want to follow it, hate it, spread it and so on. From how you put it, I can understand how you think of the Good News.
Well, call it another mystery of God.
My religion teacher always told me that whatever questions I have now will suddenly make sense once in "heaven."

Just want to tell you not to worry about it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSpirit

Why should everyone abandon their own ancient set of beliefs and customs in favor of new and foreign ones.

XD. Well....

Simply how people think. I can think of a lot of movies with this kind of ~~stereotype~~ I mean this kind of thing.
(Oh wait... strikethrough doesn't work anymore DX)
All I can say is that it's all on faith and your strength of belief and faith.

OTL I fail at this preaching thing....

ItachiAnbu · 08-26-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabra Kusabana

No no dear... They use your death as reason to take vengence upon those that killed you, going completely against what you tried to teach them.

"They" meaning who?

Colt45thrwngstar · 08-26-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSpirit

I don't use the word "alien" meaning little green men. I mean that Judaism and its spiritual children Christianity and Islam are religions that are alien (that means "foreign" it has nothing to do with outer space) to the the rest of the world that is not Jewish or even Middle Eastern. What I mean is that these are Middle Eastern religions that have risen to prominence among people, Europeans, Africans, Asians, Native Americans, that had their own religions and customs before. Why should everyone abandon their own ancient set of beliefs and customs in favor of new and foreign ones.

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I was talking about extraterrestrials, but I hope that clears things up.

Wasn't ever saying -you- were talking about extra terrestrials. That little bit of my post, is my -own- feelings on the matter. The post 'wanders' a bit.

Kyuubi<3 · 08-27-2009, 09:24 AM

I believe God gave human's free will. Faith is a big part of Christianity, believing him without proof.

08-25-2009, 10:12 PM	#42
Colt45thrwngstar Freshmen Academy Student Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: THE State. Posts: 24 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. First off. <---- Southern Baptist. NOT you’re Typical Southern Baptist either. Second off. Your 'summary' is very generic, OP. It also manages to catch the 'simple' beliefs of most Christians, and in some cases is more accurate to the actual picture than some Christian’s beliefs. Fact of the matter is, most Christians these days are so caught up in the 'bible is whole truth' mentality, that they fail to even realize that they are pulling snippets and quotes out, and applying them to things as if it was written for that situation, rather than understanding, that the bible is intended as a progressive, human-interpreted, revelation of God to his people. I'll state that again. The bible is a progressive revelation of God to his people simple enough to understand? Likely not. Let me expound. Old Testament vs. new. Punishment for many things is death, usually by stoning. Harsh right? God also required sacrifices to atone for sins. Harsh right? New Testament, Jesus stops a gal from being stoned for what was a stone-death punishable offence. Wait what? He's Gods son, should uphold the law, right? Ok, look at what happened later, he was the last sacrifice, by a people chosen by God, if unwitting, to atone for sin. He knew that, so her sins were forgiven, he forgave them. By now your either not reading, or thinking I'm a loon. What I'm getting at is, that at the time each portion of the 'story' happened, not all of the facts were known, and then later at the time the stories were written down, enough time had passed that several events are no longer accurate, but rather written according to human interpretation of memory. .. And have been further interpreted with each translation. Allot of Christians -wrongly- believe that geneses is 100% fact that it really happened that fast. Well, frankly, reading the rest of the bible, that ain't God's style. I don't know if its fact, but I -do- know that what we perceive as time is relative even to us. So how can we say that to God 7 of our days are 7 of his? Rather, I believe that 7 days of time is a relative, semi-arbitrary timeline chosen by the author (unknown) of Genesis. A method of explaining how we came to be, one that made/makes, more sense when you look at it in a relative light, than other creation stories, but still has so many holes that you can't possibly hold it up as 100% fact Its vague on purpose, to provide a window for faith, that -yes- there is a God, and -yes- he did create the universe. Jumping back to the topic of Jesus, one aspect of god, if you will . . . the 'forgiving' aspect of him. Sacrificed himself, to save his people, opening himself to all people who come to him on faith. By the time the Jesus story rolls around, you have a softened, more advanced, and more civilized people from the nearly 100% nomadic style of life in the Old Testament. Man has become more civilized, more organized. God is able to reveal more to mankind, and redeem them finally for their sin, and provide a path for them to come to him, without the continuing sacrifices, enabling man to become more civilized. So, Jesus was the sacrifice, God was the one who made the sacrifice, because he required it. Now, as far as the progression of 'some dudes in the middle east' Well, Archaeological evidence puts man in the middle eastern lands -long- before in other areas of the world, Archaeologically, and Anthropologically speaking, it was the 'epicenter' of civilization, with the rest of the world populating and spreading in the nomadic tribal lifestyles as civilization advanced. Conquest easily captured those areas, spreading civilization faster, with, North, and South America, arguably being the last 'conquered' zones before we began to try and -not- weed out tribal lifestyles . . . instead now we study them. Why would God only reveal his incarnation to that one group of people? That was all he needed to do for humanity. Does God expect us to share this same message to 'Aliens'? No. It doesn't -fit- for them, they did not endure the same circumstances as we did, if they exist. Are there aliens out there? Two ways to look at this from a Christian perspective. 1. God created Man in his image; therefore we are the pinnacle of God's work 2. God created the universe in its infiniteness to display his awesomeness, and all that is within it. To assume that Man is the crown of that is to have an ego that rivals God in size, and therefore is an unsafe assumption. God would have done -something- with the rest of that space, as continuing to create more, would be further to his glory. Again, these are -human- assumptions about God, and therefore can be completely incorrect. Suffice it to say, that your summary of Christian Belief is a little too long. What it ultimately amounts to, is that Christians Believe in God, that God reveals himself to them through the human touch of the bible, and subtle movements of the heart (or wherever your cultures seat of emotion is). And that God sacrificed of himself to provide a path to redemption for man's early sin, and continuing sin, and that ultimately, there is redemption into Gods Company. This is the point where I state this. . . Is it possible that mankind's multiple religions are all trying to get to the same god? Yes it is. Is it possible that everyone has the picture wrong? Yes it is. Is it possible that rather than God existing in the universe that he -is- the universe? Yes it is. Frankly, to a Christian, or to anyone of any religion, it doesn’t matter. What –does- matter is that they believe that specific way; why do I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost? Looking at the bible in the light I put it in, as a Progressive, Humanized, Revelation of God to his people. . . It makes sense. It developed humanity into what it is, and is continuing to shape it. Now, to answer the question of why I say I am Southern Baptist? I was born in Texas, I was Baptized, I was raised in a Christian home with the freedom to come to know religion and choose at my will. With an example of what Christianity is –really- supposed to be about. You’d have to know my family to understand what I speak of here, but the short of it is. . . I believe what I believe because I can feel God in it, and understand that I cannot understand him in a full way, and therefore seek to understand what he gives of himself to us, through human revelation. Or, if you’re the type to skip the wall of text, read the first paragraph and the last paragraph, ‘I’m a kooky christian!’

08-26-2009, 12:25 AM	#43
CrimsonCatClan Apprentice Genin Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Somewhere between sarcasm and confusion! Posts: 135 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. There is always only one messenger... whether it be Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, or any other bringer of faith. If one chooses to believe in God, then may hap these are all messengers of one being that are sent to different peoples to identify with their cultures. Maybe we are the ones misinterpreting everything.

08-26-2009, 12:42 AM	#44
Sabra Kusabana Veteran Chunin Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: I reject your reality, and institute my own. Posts: 1,307 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. Why in the world would an all powerful God need to sent an incarnation as just one person? Why would it have to be a person to begin with? Really. The Bible is a book written by man, it's a great one, but it should not be taken as the one and only truth. The faith itself is quite beautiful, but to take it as the full truth is to turn a blind eye to all others that exist. I think that if you don't acknowledge that the other's have basis that you're not seeing things clearly. I don't care if you believe it or not, but it must be remembered that the Holy Book was written by men, flawed men, as are we all flawed, so too were they. I personally believe that he (If it is a He really... Does a God have a sex?) reveiled himself to them because they were his chosen people. I acknowledge that there could be more then one god, so it's no stretch for me to say he was their god, but that he wasn't really to be everyone's god. He rose to that by means of his followers, like any leader would do. The question of does the bible detail the only path to heaven is complicated. Maybe the path to His heaven... To everyone's heaven, or their God's heaven, probly not. It's a great guideline for being kind and just to those you encounter, but beyond that I'm just not able to say. Last edited by Sabra Kusabana; 08-26-2009 at 12:44 AM.

08-26-2009, 12:57 AM	#47
CrimsonCatClan Apprentice Genin Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Somewhere between sarcasm and confusion! Posts: 135 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. Some poor hermit was wandering around afterwards looking for his house rules! Now the Hermits United will never be kept in order when they meet up to talk about their caves.

08-26-2009, 01:08 AM	#49
CrimsonCatClan Apprentice Genin Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Somewhere between sarcasm and confusion! Posts: 135 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. We digress! This is still Judeism! Christianity is the one where people slaughtered each other to force people into their belief! I don't think that this was what Jesus was trying to instil when he died for the sins of the people. Sigh being a martyr only gets you killed! No one learns anything but your name!

08-27-2009, 09:24 AM	#55
Kyuubi<3 Genin Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Gone. Posts: 304 Rep Power: 0	Re: A question about Christianity. I believe God gave human's free will. Faith is a big part of Christianity, believing him without proof.

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