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Shikamaru Nara 04-25-2011 07:27 AM

Abortion
 
What is the essential political issue concerning abortion?

Where do you stand concerning abortion?

Is abortion a right?

Is abortion murder?

What is the capitalist view on abortion?

debate

Rorek 04-25-2011 05:34 PM

Re: Abortion
 
I think there are certain situations where it could be allowed, such as a young girl who has gotten raped, but any joe shmo who walks in shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion. I personally think it's quite wrong, but again, I think there are certain situations that call for abortion.

Nick Tasogare 04-25-2011 05:39 PM

Re: Abortion
 
I don't think it should be used if you got drunk and had sex because you're a dickhead, but if, say, you're raped, or you know for a fact that the kid isn't going to lead that great of a life due to a defect, then it should be an option.

Ino's Girl 04-25-2011 05:41 PM

Re: Abortion
 
What Rorek and Nick said

Danielle 04-25-2011 05:43 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Wait a minute, what kind of a defect, Nick?

Nick Tasogare 04-25-2011 05:46 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle (Post 4980393)
Wait a minute, what kind of a defect, Nick?

One that would prevent you from leading your own life. Nothing like autism or retardation. You can live an actual life with those. The more physical things that I don't know the name of.

sasu_girl 04-25-2011 05:48 PM

Re: Abortion
 
basically what nick said. if the woman had no choice or something horrible happened to the fetus it should be allowed but not everyone should be able to have one.

Danielle 04-25-2011 05:58 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Hm, I don't believe in abortion at all, it's horrible. God gives you what he does because he knows you can handle it. However, before you jump on me, I do believe in choice and I support a woman's right to be able to carry her child to term or the right to choose to terminate it if she so desires.

To me, life begins at conception, though legally it's the earliest time the baby can survive outside of the womb...(I might be wrong, but I think it is 20 something weeks? a little more maybe...) Anyway, up until the third trimester the child is not legally a child, what ever you choose is whatever to me. I would rather the child be brought to term and then adopted out.

Rorek 04-25-2011 06:39 PM

Re: Abortion
 
I agree with Nick, if you know your kid is going to have something that'll make his or her life miserable, then I think you should be allowed to have an abortion also.

Nick Tasogare 04-25-2011 06:42 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle (Post 4980460)
Hm, I don't believe in abortion at all, it's horrible. God gives you what he does because he knows you can handle it. However, before you jump on me, I do believe in choice and I support a woman's right to be able to carry her child to term or the right to choose to terminate it if she so desires.

To me, life begins at conception, though legally it's the earliest time the baby can survive outside of the womb...(I might be wrong, but I think it is 20 something weeks? a little more maybe...) Anyway, up until the third trimester the child is not legally a child, what ever you choose is whatever to me. I would rather the child be brought to term and then adopted out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorek (Post 4980683)
I agree with Nick, if you know your kid is going to have something that'll make his or her life miserable, then I think you should be allowed to have an abortion also.

Legally the baby is only alive if they've taken a breath, I believe.

And I mean, yea, if the baby is going to grow up without being able to feed, clean, take care of itself, or be in constant pain then what kind of life is that?

Danielle 04-25-2011 06:43 PM

Re: Abortion
 
That's immensely selfish, they wouldn't be doing it for the child, they're doing it for themselves. You can justify it however you want, Roe v Wade was won, but it is still wrong.

Besides there are good places that will take those children, not all the facilities out there are bad.

Nick Tasogare 04-25-2011 06:45 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle (Post 4980704)
That's immensely selfish, they wouldn't be doing it for the child, they're doing it for themselves. You can justify it however you want, Roe v Wade was won, but it is still wrong.

Besides there are good places that will take those children, not all the facilities out there are bad.

Um how the hell is that selfish? If a person is going to be born and not be able to live for whatever reason then what the hell kind of a life is that?

Living for the sake of living in that sense is wrong.

Bacon 04-25-2011 07:02 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Nick, could you explain what type of birth defects you think would impair one's life? I personally don't know any,so I can't really respond correctly. But I will say this, if the baby with a birth defect could grow up and attain their own personality, then they should not be denied life based on someone else's prejudgement. For me personally, I could not imagine what it's like to be born blind.Yet this particular baby could end up growing up to live a somewhat normal life and I believe that no one should have the right to deny another person of the fundamental right to life.

As for the other situations where abortion could be vindicated based on the mother not being able to take care of the child or rape, I would be against that. If the mother who is pregnant is healthy enough to give birth, then their decision is based on selfish reasons. These reasons can be further education, money, and life style changes; all of which should be dropped if the man and woman had sexual intercourse.

As for the raped scenario, I wouldn't support that either. This is only my view on things because the woman was forced to conceive this child because of her attacker,but the fetus(baby) you're killing is not at fault. By having an abortion, you are denying the life of another human. When all is said and done, I wouldn't vote for abortion or against it because that would be hypocritical, just as the mother who aborted the baby has no right to judge the welfare of their child based on a birth defect, I have no right to potentially legally bar that same woman from having an abortion.

Danielle 04-25-2011 07:23 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Hm, Bacon explained it, so I will leave it at that.

LoneTophat 04-25-2011 08:25 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Rape victims should be allowed such rights. Mothers who's lives are in danger from pregnancy complications should be allowed such rights. People who don't want to have autistic children so they kill them before they can feel guilty and responsible, need to die in a lovely pit of fire. Mentally retarded and autistic people deserve the right to have a chance as much as the next person does. I have a mild form of autism (obviously very mild) so do you think my Mother should have aborted me because I have emotional and social issues?

naruto_jock 04-25-2011 08:51 PM

Re: Abortion
 
I am pro-choice when it comes to stuff like this. I believe that whatever a woman does with her body should be her decision and if she has a child I think she should at least tell the father of the baby what's she's about to do. Now, who's to pass judgement on how a rape victim can't have the baby of her rape? She should be able to have it since it was against her will to have sex. So pro-choice is the way to go in a legal sense because there are some things that government shouldn't govern and abortion is one of those many things.

Bacon 04-25-2011 09:01 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneTophat (Post 4981030)
Rape victims should be allowed such rights. Mothers who's lives are in danger from pregnancy complications should be allowed such rights. People who don't want to have autistic children so they kill them before they can feel guilty and responsible, need to die in a lovely pit of fire. Mentally retarded and autistic people deserve the right to have a chance as much as the next person does. I have a mild form of autism (obviously very mild) so do you think my Mother should have aborted me because I have emotional and social issues?

Things have changed so much when it comes to child birth in this modern age, having a child isn't as danagerous as it would have been 100 years ago.
Quote:

Originally Posted by naruto_jock (Post 4981087)
I am pro-choice when it comes to stuff like this. I believe that whatever a woman does with her body should be her decision and if she has a child I think she should at least tell the father of the baby what's she's about to do. Now, who's to pass judgement on how a rape victim can't have the baby of her rape? She should be able to have it since it was against her will to have sex. So pro-choice is the way to go in a legal sense because there are some things that government shouldn't govern and abortion is one of those many things.

Not to take anything away from rape victims, because that is one of the foulest, if not worst thing that could happen to a human being. But the question is still there, what did the child in the belly do to deserve death? Its conception was unintentional,but it by no means is at fault for the father's action.

In fact, aborting on that ground is punishing the child as well. Just my thoughts...

Edit: Pro choice is not a reason in my eyes. While this may be sort of a tangent, it's sorta like saying this child is mine; so it's my choice if it should live or die. If a woman has no right to kill a child who was born, why should they have the right to kill a child in the womb?

But I guess that's another debate because you would have to consider the fetus as less than human.

naruto_jock 04-25-2011 09:23 PM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon (Post 4981116)
Things have changed so much when it comes to child birth in this modern age, having a child isn't as danagerous as it would have been 100 years ago.


Not to take anything away from rape victims, because that is one of the foulest, if not worst thing that could happen to a human being. But the question is still there, what did the child in the belly do to deserve death? Its conception was unintentional,but it by no means is at fault for the father's action.

In fact, aborting on that ground is punishing the child as well. Just my thoughts...

Edit: Pro choice is not a reason in my eyes. While this may be sort of a tangent, it's sorta like saying this child is mine; so it's my choice if it should live or die. If a woman has no right to kill a child who was born, why should they have the right to kill a child in the womb?

But I guess that's another debate because you would have to consider the fetus as less than human.

Okay there's a difference between 3-8 weeks pregnant and getting an abortion and a couple of months in like 3-4. When the fetus is a "fetus" where it doesn't develop then why not get an abortion even when the fetus is a product of a rape? Rape is the worst thing that a human can do to another human besides murder yet no one should be able to face the memory of that rape for the rest of their days by raising a child that they didn't want in the first place. As wrong as that sounds you have to look at the rape victims side of this and not the rapist or the fetus/child.

Wooster 04-26-2011 10:37 AM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara (Post 4978414)
What is the essential political issue concerning abortion?

The essential one? I would say the manner in which it was enforced upon all. California had some types of abortion before Roe v. Wade, and there was little problem then. Now however, limits are difficult to place and those supporting it know that the support of abortion is built upon flimsy arguments on that case. In other words, it has made the whole thing a bunch of hoopla.
Quote:

Where do you stand concerning abortion?
The fewer the better/
Quote:


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Is abortion a right?
A right? That is a most absurd argument regardless if it should or shouldn't be allowed.
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Is abortion murder?
Well, murder is defined as killing a human against some law, so no it would not be as there is no law against it.
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What is the capitalist view on abortion?
Capitalist view? Perhaps you mean economic view or free market view?
In terms of economics, it would seem to be counterproductive. You are eliminating a vital resource i.e labor for no gain or at most a few months of gain.

Or if you mean if there was no government coercion one way or the other, I imagine there would be some abortions allowed, but at a much limited scale. Perhaps only in the first trimester and perhaps a valid reason why it is needed to be done. Such as health of the mother physical or mental I guess.

Quote:


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debate
I did.

Nick Tasogare 04-26-2011 10:55 AM

Re: Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon (Post 4980779)
Nick, could you explain what type of birth defects you think would impair one's life? I personally don't know any,so I can't really respond correctly. But I will say this, if the baby with a birth defect could grow up and attain their own personality, then they should not be denied life based on someone else's prejudgement. For me personally, I could not imagine what it's like to be born blind.Yet this particular baby could end up growing up to live a somewhat normal life and I believe that no one should have the right to deny another person of the fundamental right to life.

As for the other situations where abortion could be vindicated based on the mother not being able to take care of the child or rape, I would be against that. If the mother who is pregnant is healthy enough to give birth, then their decision is based on selfish reasons. These reasons can be further education, money, and life style changes; all of which should be dropped if the man and woman had sexual intercourse.

As for the raped scenario, I wouldn't support that either. This is only my view on things because the woman was forced to conceive this child because of her attacker,but the fetus(baby) you're killing is not at fault. By having an abortion, you are denying the life of another human. When all is said and done, I wouldn't vote for abortion or against it because that would be hypocritical, just as the mother who aborted the baby has no right to judge the welfare of their child based on a birth defect, I have no right to potentially legally bar that same woman from having an abortion.

Anencephaly, for one.

And you obviously weren't reading what I said carefully enough, as I said 'One that would prevent you from leading your own life. Nothing like autism or retardation. You can live an actual life with those.' Blind people, deaf people, autistic people, retarded people all live good lives. If you're born with something that sentences you to a life of pain or the inability to do the simplest of things, what kind of life is that? You shouldn't force a person through that when they aren't going to be able to even live a life with it. And don't go on about how it's selfish on the parents' part, not everyone who gets an abortion is selfish or doing it for selfish reasons.

If you're gonna say some shpeel about God giving it to you for a reason, what purpose does someone who can't go 5 minutes without excruciating pain at a young age serve in God's master plan?

I'm not even going to argue anymore, because everyone has their own opinion, no matter how unfounded it is.


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