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-   -   Spoiler The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me (http://forum.naruto.viz.com/showthread.php?t=127914)

Maruko 03-11-2013 05:47 AM

The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
I have some questions, and I hope someone can answer them:
Spoiler:
Tobirama explained that the Sharingan is the product of special chakra sprouts in the brain that control chakra flow into the eyes.
So the secret is in the brain, not the eye itself.
There's a question now.
When you transplant Sharingan to someone else, let's say Kakashi, how is that other person able to improve the Sharingan?
You see, Kakashi got the eye with two tomoe, and he had 3 when he killed Rin, and before it became Mangekyou.

The more ''love you lose'' and more ''emo'' you are, the eyes get stronger.
So, how was Kakashi, who doesn't have the special chakra sprouts, able to improve his/Obito's eye?


The second Q:
Is an Uchiha able to awaken Sharingan in any eye? If I take a random person's eyes out and give them to some Uchiha, will that Uchiha's brain sprouts be able to activate the Sharingan in the new eyes?

DrKage 03-11-2013 07:05 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
1. Someone like Kakashi can improve on it because there is actually a physical transformation that happens with the eye once it is affected by the special chakra from the Uchiha, and they never said anything else beyond that first chakra burst that has any effect on the eye. So once the first Sharingan is awakened, there's no more special, Uchiha trauma chakra needed.

2. Yes. It seems that if an Uchiha who had not unlocked a Sharingan had gotten an eye transplant, he could activate the Sharingan in these new eyes. Now, would they hold up as well since they aren't Uchiha, who knows. And since the burst that creates the Sharingan seems to be a one time occurrence, if they had already awakened the Sharingan and then got new eyes, I don't think they could make another Sharingan.

Maruko 03-11-2013 07:14 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
But didn't Tobirama say that the eyes get more powerful as the Uchiha descends into darkness?
Descend more = Sprouts working harder
That's how I see it.
I guess neither can be proven.
Thx for answering. :)

DrKage 03-11-2013 07:33 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
It may be that everyone has some sort of chakra response to a traumatic event, and any of that would be good enough to make a MS from a regular Sharingan or even up the tomoes, but to make that first Sharingan, you need the special Uchiha chakra burst.

Harlequin 03-11-2013 11:39 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruko (Post 6558670)
I have some questions, and I hope someone can answer them:
Spoiler:
Tobirama explained that the Sharingan is the product of special chakra sprouts in the brain that control chakra flow into the eyes.
So the secret is in the brain, not the eye itself.
There's a question now.
When you transplant Sharingan to someone else, let's say Kakashi, how is that other person able to improve the Sharingan?
You see, Kakashi got the eye with two tomoe, and he had 3 when he killed Rin, and before it became Mangekyou.

The more ''love you lose'' and more ''emo'' you are, the eyes get stronger.
So, how was Kakashi, who doesn't have the special chakra sprouts, able to improve his/Obito's eye?


The second Q:
Is an Uchiha able to awaken Sharingan in any eye? If I take a random person's eyes out and give them to some Uchiha, will that Uchiha's brain sprouts be able to activate the Sharingan in the new eyes?

If a uchiha for instance madara gets a regular transplanted and turns that to MS/EMS/Rinnegan, wouldn't that mean he can make sh!tload of it and.that.would totally kill the rinnegan legend -.-

Sergoros 03-11-2013 02:10 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harlequin (Post 6559109)
If a uchiha for instance madara gets a regular transplanted and turns that to MS/EMS/Rinnegan, wouldn't that mean he can make sh!tload of it and.that.would totally kill the rinnegan legend -.-

He need to get emotional stress, on the same level, as when he got his sharingan 1-st time. But...its kinda hard to do. You can't repeat 1-st experience. Everything later would be to pale on his 1-st loss background. And since he even have ms....Its double impossible.

Maruko 03-11-2013 02:18 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harlequin (Post 6559109)
If a uchiha for instance madara gets a regular transplanted and turns that to MS/EMS/Rinnegan, wouldn't that mean he can make sh!tload of it and.that.would totally kill the rinnegan legend -.-

That Uchiha would need sibling's eyes to get EMS and Senju DNA for Rinnegan. It would be a pain in the ass to do so, since the transplant doesn't always end up with EMS, as stated by Itachi.
And Senju DNA is not easy to get and control.
There are special requirements.
And MS is hard to get, too.

Fighting_dreamer 03-11-2013 02:58 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
I would say Kakashi improved his sharingan through vigorous training. The sharingan had already been awakened in an Uchiha body, for which the chakra sprouts are needed (which you pointed as well).

Another thing, somehow Kakashi's body is compatible with the sharingan eye as Itachi says to him in chapter 142,
''you are not blood related to the Uchiha. We are the true masters of the sharingan. Still your body is suitable for the eye but it does not contain any of our blood''

Kishi needs to tell us why Kakashi was so damn good at training it ;)

Just wanted to add that the 3rd databook says that Kakashi was able to use the MS Kamui through 'extreme concentration and specially trained chakra' though I don't know how good is this translation..

Jutsu Junkie 03-11-2013 02:59 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
The first thing to understand is that the separation between the body and the mind is essentially artificial. The body effects the mind, the mind effects the body: they are symbiotic. So, keeping in mind we are talking about fiction, if we are forced to use what we've been told and apply real-world logic to it, there is still no barrier to Kakashi improving the sharingan, although I don't really see how he was able to "improve" it at all. It nearly kills him when he uses it a lot without the kyuubi chakra, and obviously Obito uses it better. This is already said to be a compatibility issue that anyone not of Uchiha blood would encounter.

paradigm1977 03-11-2013 03:29 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
There's no answer to this question that would be anything more than a guess. So we would all just be guessing.

I'll say that the eye responds to the brain in terms of emotions. The sharingan is the eye that reflects feelings. The emotions unlock the sharingan, MS, etc, no matter the body.

Kakashi isn't uchiha and doesn't have the Uchiha brain (so no chakra sprouts), so he doesn't have the chakra to maintain sharingan based jutsu. I'm guessing the brain feeding the eye, rather than chakra being generated in general, is the difference. Likely higher quality too.

Maybe Kakashi can work up his recovery and stamina, but maintaining something like susanoo, even with two MS, should be beyond him.

Hyuuga Heir 03-11-2013 05:42 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
You guys are all forgetting a crucial fact: Kakashi awakened the Mangekyou the same time Obito did, when Kakashi killed Rin. Ch. 605 pg. 4

kalmeast 03-11-2013 11:01 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruko (Post 6558670)
I have some questions, and I hope someone can answer them:
Spoiler:
Tobirama explained that the Sharingan is the product of special chakra sprouts in the brain that control chakra flow into the eyes.
So the secret is in the brain, not the eye itself.
There's a question now.
When you transplant Sharingan to someone else, let's say Kakashi, how is that other person able to improve the Sharingan?
You see, Kakashi got the eye with two tomoe, and he had 3 when he killed Rin, and before it became Mangekyou.

The more ''love you lose'' and more ''emo'' you are, the eyes get stronger.
So, how was Kakashi, who doesn't have the special chakra sprouts, able to improve his/Obito's eye?


The second Q:
Is an Uchiha able to awaken Sharingan in any eye? If I take a random person's eyes out and give them to some Uchiha, will that Uchiha's brain sprouts be able to activate the Sharingan in the new eyes?

me, me...sensei me:p

The Uchiha eyes in itself is special and the chakra from the brain is special as (the older son inherited the sages EYES, Special Chakra and Spiritual Energy) so the eyes and chakra are dependent on each other.

It's like a NUT & BOLT... the eye being the NUT and the special brain Chakra being the BOLT... when Obito gave his sharingan to Kakashi, the BOLT has already been halfway screwed into the NUT; so unplucking his eyes is like cutting the bolt in half, leaving the NUT with the other half of the BOLT stuck in it...
To gain MS is just equal to pushing the BOLT deeper into the nut so that it passes beyond the otherside of the NUT.
In other words, Rins death may have provided more brain chakra, that is LONGER "BOLT" for Obito for further push into the NUT,
but in Kakashi's case, it pushed the broken BOLT, that is the only original chakra within the eyes further. And because kakashi's bolt isn't long enough, he can't sustain the MS for long...

so on and so forth... you tired of my silliness yet?

oh sensei...one more thing... when the NUT get's rusty, you Kill your brother and take His "NUTS"...screw it on your BOLT and behold, EMS...

some other person's nuts might be larger or smaller than yours, so Siblings is important...


And Important NOTE... the fact that you have MS, doesn't mean if you implant another normal sharingan, you'd get EMS... Itachi was just bluffing about taking sasuke's eyes since that'd not give him EMS because sasuke only had sharingan...how'd i know this...
Madara who had EMS, when he met with Obito, had someone's sharingan and it was only Normal 3 tomoe... It's possible he couldn't have MS it unless another trauma happened or just the fact that he and that person were not close kin.

Shisko Shi 03-11-2013 11:04 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
I say seeing as They are Obito's, Seeing Rin's death inraged him. The closest thing to him. That is when he got the Mongokyo INO.

That is when Kakashi actulyl got it.

It is still Obito's eye and they might have a chakra connection




The other I have no idea at the moment.

Maruko 03-13-2013 03:03 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Another question about the Sharingan:
If a perons A and person B are siblings, and both have MS, what would happen if:
Person B used Izanagi/Izanami with both eyes and got blind, and person A took B's eyes out and put them into his eye sockets.
Would person A get EMS in the new eyes even though the blindness was caused by Izanagi/Izanami.

You know how Itachi's pupils were blank when he died? The same way they were blank when he used Izanami, and yet in Sasuke's head, they got the eyesight back.
Would the same happen in my scenario.

DrKage 03-13-2013 05:57 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
No, Izanagi/Izanami seals the eyes, where as just spamming MS jutsu more or less "wears" it out or something that is undone by implanting other eyes.

Maruko 03-13-2013 06:09 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrKage (Post 6563692)
No, Izanagi/Izanami seals the eyes, where as just spamming MS jutsu more or less "wears" it out or something that is undone by implanting other eyes.

It was stated that the eye gets sealed and loses it's sight, but in Itachi's case it only lost the sight, right? It remained open, unlike Danzo's eyes which closed.

DrKage 03-13-2013 06:24 AM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
I don't know if we can use Danzo's Orochimaru implanted-experimented on arm-eyes as a good comparison. Who knows just how they react and how/if it is different that normal eyes.

paradigm1977 03-14-2013 07:39 PM

Re: The secret/wut? of the Sharingan Please answer me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruko (Post 6563568)
Another question about the Sharingan:
If a perons A and person B are siblings, and both have MS, what would happen if:
Person B used Izanagi/Izanami with both eyes and got blind, and person A took B's eyes out and put them into his eye sockets.
Would person A get EMS in the new eyes even though the blindness was caused by Izanagi/Izanami.

You know how Itachi's pupils were blank when he died? The same way they were blank when he used Izanami, and yet in Sasuke's head, they got the eyesight back.
Would the same happen in my scenario.

I say a sealing is permanent.

Otherwise it would never be mentioned. They would simply say that izanagi's cost is an immediate/instant loss of light. But instead they say sealed, as a hint to a permanency like a jutsu seal.


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