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Ultimate combatant 02-27-2012 04:42 AM

Kakashi vs Kage level
 
I just cannot grasp the power level of Kakashi. And no, it`s not over 9000.

At the beginning he was introduced as a skilled Jonin. Like that he remained, until timeskip. After timeskip, he has little more Chakra, slightly better speed, strength and... Kamui.

At one point, it seemed really hax. But as much as was shown, it is not really that great. Kakashi never used it on opponent except Deidara. He used it on Deidara, however Deidara was standing on a bird. Bird was moving in a predictable fashion and linearly, so Kakashi managed to target Deidara. But this is no harder, than targetting scarecrow if it was on that same bird. Because Deidara only stood on bird.

It should be noted Kakashi never managed to Kamui someone away if his movement wasn`t restricted. Not Itachi, Not Deidara, not Hidan, not Kakuzu, not Tobi, not Zetsu, not any path of Pain and not Sasuke. He never even intended to after Deidara, with one notable exception. Tobi. Why he would try it on Tobi is beyond me. Perhaps he thought Tobi is Madara and said to himself: "There is no way I can beat Madara any other way than if by some chance I`d get lucky with my Kamui." No to bother him, Tobi told him he wouldn`t get lucky.

But, if he fought he can be lucky with Madara, perhaps he could Kamui someone else. Kakashi can effectively Kamui sitting ducks and predictable or linearly moving objects. This often comes in handy, when explosions, nails, Sussano arrows and Tailed beast bomb are fired at him. But what I don`t get is, why not use it for offense if he can.

So basically, Kakashi waits for his opponent to fire something at him, and than he Kamui`s it. After that, he is tired and starts feeling weird. Again, he waits for next opportunity to get something fired at him, so he could demonstrate us this hax Jutsu.

Sure, it was fun to write "Kamui FTW" in any thread with Kakashi. But it is just not real.

That said, I could see Kakashi being Sub-Kage level or substitution Kage level. Perhaps even Kage level, but not elite Kage level. Definitely above ordinary Jonin elite, anyway.

This is my opinion how many percents of possibility is for Kakashi to beat following Kage:

Tsunade 90% (Kakashi should win, unless somehow she hits him or Katsuyu does something)
Ay 5% (Or even less)
Onoki 1% (Arguably the strongest of five current Kage)
Gaara 85% (I`m giving it to Kakashi as Gaara has same things as before, only his sand is faster)
Mei 35% (I`m giving an edge to Mei, she has two strong Kekkei Genkai, keeps up with Madara, beat Sasuke easily, Kamui won`t work and Raikiri`s not likely)

Anyway how much chances does Kakashi have against every single Kage (real Kage, and minor Kage)
Use hype, feats, statements, anime,...

1st Hokage
2nd Hokage
3rd Hokage
4th Hokage
5th Hokage

1st Kazekage
2nd Kazekage
3rd Kazekage
4th Kazekage
5th Kazekage

1st Mizukage
2nd Mizukage
3rd Mizukage
4th Mizukage
5th Mizukage

1st Raikage
2nd Raikage
3rd Raikage
4th Raikage
5th Raikage

1st Tsuchikage
2nd Tsuchikage
3rd Tsuchikage
4th Tsuchikage
5th Tsuchikage

MinatoXNaruto 02-27-2012 05:02 AM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Mei only beat Sasuke because he was completely exhausted. But anyways, I put him above the 5th hokage, and possibly the 3rd and 4th kazekage. He definitely doesn't stand a chance against any of the previous hokages I don't think he can beat A. Maybe Gaara if he can get past his defenses. I don't know much about the other kages so I can't really say

Kakashi11 02-27-2012 08:31 AM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
I say he could beat
3rd and 5th Hokage
4th and 5th Kazekage
2nd and 5th Mizukage

Maybe 2nd Hokage cuse of lighning over water advantage

Ask if you want me too explain more deeply

Ultimate combatant 02-27-2012 11:17 AM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakashi11 (Post 5915811)
I say he could beat
3rd and 5th Hokage
4th and 5th Kazekage
2nd and 5th Mizukage

Maybe 2nd Hokage cuse of lighning over water advantage

Ask if you want me too explain more deeply

I agree about 5th Hokage, 4th and 5th Kazekage.

As for 3rd Hokage...
Well, Kakashi said he couldn`t defeat Orochimaru. 3rd Hokage managed to do quite heavy damage to him and also managed to defeat 2 Edo Tensei Hokage (Obviously, far weaker than original, but still I believe Hiruzen did well).

I`m not saying Kakashi couldn`t beat him, though.

Beating 2nd Mizukage would be tricky, but not impossible.

I think it would be hard for Kakashi to beat Mizukage. She has 2 Kekkei Genkai (both incredibly strong). Her acid makes it hard for Kakashi to use Taijutsu or Raikiri. Plus it is strong a strong offense move. Adding in Lava makes things even more difficult.

Perhaps if Kakashi could make Kage Bunshin which would Raikiri her. But it is easier said, than done.

As for 2nd Hokage, I don`t think Kakashi can win even with lightning affinity. Tobirama was the greates water user and I just don`t think Kakashi can match that.

Midnight789 02-27-2012 11:38 AM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Kakashi with out a doubt is capable of beating every single kage out there. but there is only a few he can win against!

colorles 02-27-2012 11:43 AM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant (Post 5915663)
I just cannot grasp the power level of Kakashi. And no, it`s not over 9000.

At the beginning he was introduced as a skilled Jonin. Like that he remained, until timeskip. After timeskip, he has little more Chakra, slightly better speed, strength and... Kamui.

At one point, it seemed really hax. But as much as was shown, it is not really that great. Kakashi never used it on opponent except Deidara. He used it on Deidara, however Deidara was standing on a bird. Bird was moving in a predictable fashion and linearly, so Kakashi managed to target Deidara. But this is no harder, than targetting scarecrow if it was on that same bird. Because Deidara only stood on bird.

It should be noted Kakashi never managed to Kamui someone away if his movement wasn`t restricted. Not Itachi, Not Deidara, not Hidan, not Kakuzu, not Tobi, not Zetsu, not any path of Pain and not Sasuke. He never even intended to after Deidara, with one notable exception. Tobi. Why he would try it on Tobi is beyond me. Perhaps he thought Tobi is Madara and said to himself: "There is no way I can beat Madara any other way than if by some chance I`d get lucky with my Kamui." No to bother him, Tobi told him he wouldn`t get lucky.

But, if he fought he can be lucky with Madara, perhaps he could Kamui someone else. Kakashi can effectively Kamui sitting ducks and predictable or linearly moving objects. This often comes in handy, when explosions, nails, Sussano arrows and Tailed beast bomb are fired at him. But what I don`t get is, why not use it for offense if he can.

So basically, Kakashi waits for his opponent to fire something at him, and than he Kamui`s it. After that, he is tired and starts feeling weird. Again, he waits for next opportunity to get something fired at him, so he could demonstrate us this hax Jutsu.

Sure, it was fun to write "Kamui FTW" in any thread with Kakashi. But it is just not real.

That said, I could see Kakashi being Sub-Kage level or substitution Kage level. Perhaps even Kage level, but not elite Kage level. Definitely above ordinary Jonin elite, anyway.

This is my opinion how many percents of possibility is for Kakashi to beat following Kage:

Tsunade 90% (Kakashi should win, unless somehow she hits him or Katsuyu does something)
Ay 5% (Or even less)
Onoki 1% (Arguably the strongest of five current Kage)
Gaara 85% (I`m giving it to Kakashi as Gaara has same things as before, only his sand is faster)
Mei 35% (I`m giving an edge to Mei, she has two strong Kekkei Genkai, keeps up with Madara, beat Sasuke easily, Kamui won`t work and Raikiri`s not likely)

Anyway how much chances does Kakashi have against every single Kage (real Kage, and minor Kage)
Use hype, feats, statements, anime,...

1st Hokage
2nd Hokage
3rd Hokage
4th Hokage
5th Hokage

1st Kazekage
2nd Kazekage
3rd Kazekage
4th Kazekage
5th Kazekage

1st Mizukage
2nd Mizukage
3rd Mizukage
4th Mizukage
5th Mizukage

1st Raikage
2nd Raikage
3rd Raikage
4th Raikage
5th Raikage

1st Tsuchikage
2nd Tsuchikage
3rd Tsuchikage
4th Tsuchikage
5th Tsuchikage

kakashi vs the current kages..discounting kamui as it seems a 'wild card', kakashi seems to have advantages over Tsunade and Mei, and also over A via variety, quikness, guile, etc (hes just way more well rounded). Gaara and Onoki are portrayed as the most formidable current kages, by quite a margin. kakashis speed and variety is portrayed as comparable to gais, itachis, sasukes, madaras,,'in that area' so to speak, and with his variety and the like it could be tricky, but Gaara and Onoki still seem to have quite a power advantage that extends to changing the landscape itself, and they can fly

keep in mind kakashi is an assasination ninja, the purest in the manga,,hes at his purest in anbu. kakashi isnt really a 'direct confrontation' sort of ninja, yet hes still portrayed as one of the most formidable in the manga, and perhaps the most 'well rounded ninja' in a sense (rivaled by sasuke)

anyways against the previos kages, idk. then again though it hardly matters, kakashis actually a 'ninja', or at least a 'ninja' as it was orignially intended to be in the Naruto universe, remember kakashi vs zabuza? re-reading some of the manga, it seemed 'alot different' in the early chapters; now its all about bijuu bombs and chakra monsters and 'ninja monsters' to match

but as far as his so called 'power level'? if you really must, well hes not a 'power level' sort of fighter; hes a remnant of the Naruto universe as it was originally intended to be portrayed,,and kamui is just kishimotos attempted of 'powering up' kakashi without really 'knowing what' to have kakashi actually do with the technique. however notice that kakashi, in not overusing kamui, is using his other techniques such as his lightening varients; now notice sasuke, a fighter with somwhat comparable well-roundedness to kakashi, yet spamming his mangekyo sharingan,,and notice he hasnt used his lightening varients recently:???:



also, is Gaara really viewed by some readers as as 'weak' as OP (and others) tend to say?

Kakashi Hatake_Yamato 02-27-2012 12:20 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight789 (Post 5916015)
Kakashi with out a doubt is capable of beating every single kage out there. but there is only a few he can win against!

Agreed. He is pretty darn skilled

Kakashi sama!!!

Cult of Personality 02-27-2012 12:35 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

1st Hokage
2nd Hokage
3rd Hokage
4th Hokage
He loses.

Quote:

5th Hokage
He utterly annihistomps the ever loving crap out of her.

Quote:

1st Kazekage
2nd Kazekage
3rd Kazekage
4th Kazekage
No clue.

Quote:

5th Kazekage
Without Shukaku he's nothing special. Chidori to the nads.

Quote:

1st Mizukage
2nd Mizukage
3rd Mizukage
No clue.

Quote:

4th Mizukage
Jinchuriki. Nuff said.

Quote:

5th Mizukage
Lava + acid.

Quote:

1st Raikage
2nd Raikage
No clue.

Quote:

3rd Raikage
4th Raikage
Kakashi dies.

Quote:

5th Raikage
Considering there is no 5th Raikage, he autowins.

Quote:

1st Tsuchikage
No clue.

Quote:

2nd Tsuchikage
3rd Tsuchikage
Dust.

Quote:

4th Tsuchikage
5th Tsuchikage
They don't exist, so autowin.

colorles 02-27-2012 12:40 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
dupemeister you really hatting on Gaara....

also kakashi 'runs circles' around A

'that is all'...

...wai'yu hatting thoj?

Cult of Personality 02-27-2012 12:46 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
I assume you are talking to me since I'm the only one being down on Gaara. I don't know what a dupemeister is though...

Anyway, I never give anything but a totally honest assessment of character fights. Butthurt idiots assume that I am "hating" because they don't want to accept the fact that I'm right.

Gaara is fodder. Kakashi doesn't run circles around A.

I am at a loss as to what thoj is supposed to be. :|

Ultimate combatant 02-27-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality (Post 5916100)
Considering there is no 5th Raikage, he autowins.
They don't exist, so autowin.

Heh, It seems I forgot to delete a few of them after using Copy Paste.

Anyway, I agree with your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colorles (Post 5916100)
also, is Gaara really viewed by some readers as as 'weak' as OP (and others) tend to say?

This is not Chunin exam anymore, back then he was strong - for a genin. But people get wrong idea. The only reason Gaara became Kazekage is simple, basically everyone in his village was even weaker than him. Let`s face it. Third Kazekage was supposedly the strongest Kazekage. Yet he was beaten by Sasori who at that point didn`t have third Kazekage puppet, arguably didn`t have all 100 puppets and definitely wasn`t stronger than when he faced Sakura and Chiyo. Two of them gave him more troubles than Kazekage, even though better equipped.

Don`t get me wrong, Sasori is strong... But this tells you Gaara is not really super strong.

Not to mention Orochimaru killed fourth Kazekage like it was joke, yet needed help from Edo Tensei to face Hiruzen.

colorles 02-27-2012 01:14 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
...

its 'hatting'


Gaara is portrayed as the most formidable current kage along with onoki. kakashi likely has the variety, guile, and finishing moves (lightening chain, which cuts cleanly through materials portrayed as resilient to a sword portrayed as capable of cutting diamond; also kakashis raikiri is portrayed as notably more lethal than sasukes chidori) to likely 'run circles' (in a sense, shall i 'elaborate') around A and slice him up some. And of course kakashi could just assansinate the raikage

just an 'intermediate' so to speak




Ultimate combatant 02-27-2012 01:22 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Sasuke`s Chidori did nothing to Ay, Raikiri might be stronger but not that much!!! :D

colorles 02-27-2012 02:08 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant (Post 5916174)
Sasuke`s Chidori did nothing to Ay, Raikiri might be stronger but not that much!!! :D

lightening chain cut clean through a 'biju V2 cloak',,it can cut through A raikage

and sasukes chidori is a far cry from kakashis raikiri

Uchiha Sora 02-28-2012 08:35 PM

Re: Kakashi vs Kage level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant (Post 5916159)
]
This is not Chunin exam anymore, back then he was strong - for a genin. But people get wrong idea. The only reason Gaara became Kazekage is simple, basically everyone in his village was even weaker than him. Let`s face it. Third Kazekage was supposedly the strongest Kazekage. Yet he was beaten by Sasori who at that point didn`t have third Kazekage puppet, arguably didn`t have all 100 puppets and definitely wasn`t stronger than when he faced Sakura and Chiyo. Two of them gave him more troubles than Kazekage, even though better equipped.

Don`t get me wrong, Sasori is strong... But this tells you Gaara is not really super strong.

Not to mention Orochimaru killed fourth Kazekage like it was joke, yet needed help from Edo Tensei to face Hiruzen.

Chiyo had knowledge on almost every one of Sasori's techniques.
The third Kazekage probably didn't. A>B>C logic doesn't really work here.. As Gaara could pretty much rape Sasori as long as he stays covered in a sand sphere.
Gaara was the strongest genin throughout part 1 and after the chuunin exams he was around jonin. Changing earth to sand takes little to no effort. He whipped out a sand tsunami in a second, and the tsunami was big enough to make a mini desert. His control over sand is so much better now too. Most of the verse wouldn't be able to do a single thing to Gaara in that situation. If they even survived the initial tsunami.

Don't really see how Gaara isn't "super strong." He's nowhere near Naruto's level now that he has Kurama Mode, but you're underestimating him a lot.

btw Oro didn't really need the hokage, I think he was just trying to screw with Hiruzen. I mean really he could've just summoned manda. He doesn't give a ;);););) about the village so summoning Manda would've been no problem.

Kakashi doesn't get very far in any of these..


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