3rd Hokage in his younger days vs Madara

[Sharingan_Warrior]

I believe the 3rd Hokage would have won considering in his younger days he was said to have immense amounts of chakra

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

This battle is all hype since we can't even tell how powerful the 3rd was.

Furthermore, I don't see how he could get by the Demonic Statue, the Rinnegan, the Sharingan, and the intangibility that Madara possesses by himself as I doubt Enma would be much of help.

Hiruzen was said to be the "god" of shinobi, but the biggest threat he has is Dead Demon Consuming Seal, which would only result in a tie.

[[Shikamaru]]

Well there is a difference here.

Hiruzen mastered and perfected a sum of thousands of ninjutsu, making him, the most powerful being in the ninja universe

While Madara simply copied ninjutsu and obtained MS

I'm quite sure Hiruzen could kill Madara in his prime with the death reaper seal, which the 4th would have used on Madara, but Kyuubi popped into the picture.

[chidoriroar]

no way, kamui spam+intangibility and gedo statue pwn #3

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

;5146647']Well there is a difference here.

Hiruzen mastered and perfected a sum of thousands of ninjutsu, making him, the most powerful being in the ninja universe

While Madara simply copied ninjutsu and obtained MS

I'm quite sure Hiruzen could kill Madara in his prime with the death reaper seal, which the 4th would have used on Madara, but Kyuubi popped into the picture.

He's all hype. What jutsu did Hiruzen use against Orochimaru, the 1st Hokage, and the 2nd Hokage with Konoha on the line? Nothing but basic elemental jutsu that would throw off the opponent physically. Madara is intangible, which renders these jutsu useless.

Just because he is hyped to know vast amounts of jutsu doesn't mean they'll help him against Madara. Dead Demon Consuming Seal is a last resort that will result in a tie. No one would win in this case.

However, to use that jutsu, you need to PHYSICALLY grab the opponent. So let me ask, how does the 3rd hold on to Madara long enough for the Shinigami to take his soul?

[Sharingan_Warrior]

They said he had nowhere near the chakra supply he used to have so he would not be able to use the more powerful jutsus. Just because he can be intangible does not mean he could just out match him. Hiruzen in his younger days could out last Madara's five minute intangibility. Not to mention Konan made him sacrifice his left sharingan. Just think what Hiruzen could do.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

Hiruzen can't make an ocean of explosive tags. Madara used Izanagi to evade Konan's. She also had all the prep she needed. If you think Hiruzen would survive that explosion, then you must be crazy.

Madara doesn't only use Izanagi for intangibility. So far he's been shown to not have a time limit. There is no way Hiruzen can touch Madara with what we've seen.

[Frost ninja]

Just to say, RDS won't end in a tie.
The user survives a small bit longer than the one they steal the soul of,
Hence why hiruzen survived after Oro's arms were taken out of comission.
Its not by much, but RDS is a win if only by a second.

[Shikamaru Nara]

By feats and hype, Hiruzen should take this. Reaper Death Seal, as Frosty said, doesn't kill the user instantly.

By hype, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, so w/e.

[Kuromaki]

Reaper Death Seal is great and all but if you can't get your hands on the opponent, it's useless.

[Rasen_Chidori]

Madara would likely win, seeing as Minato only beat him because of his speed and FTG. Hiruzen was never hyped to be fast, only strong and knew alot of jutsu, Madara only has to get his hands on Hiruzen and zap him into another dimension and it's over.

@Shika - Even by hype, I think Minato would beat Hiruzen, speed trumps pretty much anything besides tanking. So saying he was hyped to be the strongest Hokage means very little.

[White Zetsu]

nobody can know who wins because Hiruzen could be a master of many Jutsu besides elemental ones and he could have been taught to counter Madara or other sharingan users by the previous Kage or self-taught when the Uchiha clan was going to rebel so Hiruzen wins by Hype

[Devils Lawyer]

By feats and hype, Hiruzen should take this. Reaper Death Seal, as Frosty said, doesn't kill the user instantly.

By hype, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, so w/e.

Even with feats and hype Madara would still win. Demonic statue sucks in souls way faster than demonic seal.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

By feats and hype, Hiruzen should take this. Reaper Death Seal, as Frosty said, doesn't kill the user instantly.

By hype, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, so w/e.

Hiruzen can't grab Madara long enough for the jutsu to take place.

[Noctis Arashi]

By hype, madara should have all nagato's abilities + All the sharingan techs.

So if were going that avenue, madara proceeds to rape.

This means madara should be able to: CT, ST, Soul Suck, Use all elements, etc.

And copy jutsu, so any arsenal that Hiruzen has, is pretty much null.

Plus the fact madara can become intangible, and troll hiruzen effortlessly.

And thus, the only excusable way hiruzen could hope to win is by reaper death seal, which requires a still target.

Also, Hiruzen isn't fast. He has no hype of being fast, he has no feats of being fast. That pretty much means everything. And with the reaction time madara has, or in this case, doesn't even need, it's pretty hopeless for hiruzen.

On top of the fact that izangi could null RDS. Making hiruzen kill himself. If timed right.

Just saying.

[Sharingan_Warrior]

Madara can become intangible to evade hiruzen but hiruzen can use his vast knowledge of jutsu to evade madara. Speed does not win battle it just helps. You are also assuming madara is just as strong as he once was and he was still beat by the first hokage. This is all hype anyway but you are assuming that the 3rd would automatically lose.

[Vivi]

I believe the 3rd Hokage would have won considering in his younger days he was said to have immense amounts of chakra


3rd Hokage in his young age is hyped to have been stronger than Tobirama though only from his own Statement, so it could have very well been just a tad arrogant.

Even then we have no Idea how strong Tobirama truly was.

And which Madara is this?
Current Madara rapes with Gedo Mazo adding in the fact Hiruzen got nothing to kill him.
Death Reaper is the only thing that would work.
And that is suicide as well as useless.
Madara makes himself intangible or just warps himself away.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Madara would likely win, seeing as Minato only beat him because of his speed and FTG. Hiruzen was never hyped to be fast, only strong and knew alot of jutsu, Madara only has to get his hands on Hiruzen and zap him into another dimension and it's over.

@Shika - Even by hype, I think Minato would beat Hiruzen, speed trumps pretty much anything besides tanking. So saying he was hyped to be the strongest Hokage means very little.

Said to know all of the jutsu in creation means that he's the strongest.

By that you mean that Minato is stronger by feats, but hype is different. Hype is what's said about a character that's never actually been shown or proven to be true. Like a myth. Like this:

Kakashi's lightning blade cut through lightning.

What I said was perfectly intelligible, as expected.

Even with feats and hype Madara would still win. Demonic statue sucks in souls way faster than demonic seal.
Demonic Statue is what and comes from where?
Hiruzen can't grab Madara long enough for the jutsu to take place.

He was on par with Orochimaru who's not slow. Chances are in his prime, he's even faster.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

He was on par with Orochimaru who's not slow. Chances are in his prime, he's even faster.

How does Hiruzen hold on to Madara to use Death Reaper Seal before he becomes intangible?

[Phacade]

Considering that, at one time, the 3rd was in his prime but never had the opportunity to face Madara means that either Madara knew he was no match for Hiruzen or they simply never crossed paths. Likely the later.

[Sharingan_Warrior]

How does Hiruzen hold on to Madara to use Death Reaper Seal before he becomes intangible?
Hiruzen knows thousands of jutsu you just assume that death reaper seal is his strongest one. He was said to have mastered all of Konoha jutsu. You also think that madara can stay intangible for as long as he wants which is not the case. Madara can only be intagible for five minutes at a time. Plus with all of the jutsu that Hiruzen knows an intangible target isn't a big deal.
If you recall he handled 2 hokages and orichimaru handily by himself in his old age. We had not even begun to see the true power of the 3rd hokage.

[Vivi]

Hiruzen knows thousands of jutsu you just assume that death reaper seal is his strongest one. He was said to have mastered all of Konoha jutsu. You also think that madara can stay intangible for as long as he wants which is not the case. Madara can only be intagible for five minutes at a time.

Plus with all of the jutsu that Hiruzen knows an intangible target isn't a big deal.
If you recall he handled 2 hokages and orichimaru handily by himself in his old age.

We had not even begun to see the true power of the 3rd hokage.

And you assume Hiruzen has a stronger one.

While keeping it up.
I have yet to see Madara go intangible for lets say:
10 secs then stops it.
You mean he has 4m and 50 secs left then?
If yes please prove it.

Shodai and Nidaime were nowhere near their best Power.
Where was Tobirama's Space Time Jutsu praised by Minato?
How did Hashirama do so crap against OLD Hiruzen when he was capable of fighting EMS Madara w/ Kyuubi when we know Hiruzen 16 years back even with help from Konoha were hopeless against it.

And Orochimaru did nothing.he let 2 weaker versions of the Senju Brothers face Hiruzen while he was on the sideline.
Apart from that orochimaru also held back.
No Manda?
No Eight Branches?
He didn't even use Shadow Clones.
His Primary Objective was to torment Hiruzen.
Hence how he even laughed at the Situation.
Chapter 119 page 14.
The Happiness and sense of Accomplishment you gain when you have the chance to hurt your Master...
I thought I'd have let you experience that pleasure.

[Sharingan_Warrior]

No when he goes intangible he can stay intangible for five minutes straight before he becomes tangible again.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

No when he goes intangible he can stay intangible for five minutes straight before he becomes tangible again.

When Madara becomes intangible, the 5 minute time limit restarts everytime he stops using the technique. He used it 5 minutes straight during his fight with Konan, then used it again during the 4th Great War, which is proof of this.

There's never been a known jutsu that could force Madara to stay intangible for 5 min besides Konan's massive ocean of explosives.

You're just assuming that Hiruzen HAS to know something that can just automatically cause spontaneous explosions or whatnot.

Don't forget that Madara was in a confined space so he couldn't dodge the millions of paper tags. Since the location is the HTC by default, Madara has plenty of space to maneuver.

[Sharingan_Warrior]

Nagato I will compromise with you on this.I do agree on some points and disagree on others. Based on the known arsenal that each brings to the table Madara would most likely win.
Based on the hype around the 3rd in his younger days and the statements made about him, It is a close battle between them. I believe the 3rd can edge Madara out.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

Nagato I will compromise with you on this.I do agree on some points and disagree on others. Based on the known arsenal that each brings to the table Madara would most likely win.
Based on the hype around the 3rd in his younger days and the statements made about him, It is a close battle between them. I believe the 3rd can edge Madara out.

Fair enough. This fight wasn't a good choice for debate anyways as we barely know anything about Hiruzen's abilities in his younger days.

I'd like Kishi to expand on his past, but seeing as he's not as popular or appealing as characters such as Kakashi, I doubt we'll get anymore info.

[Sharingan_Warrior]

It would be good if he expanded more on each Hokage's past but you are right they are not as appealing as Kakashi and others.

[Shikamaru Nara]

How does Hiruzen hold on to Madara to use Death Reaper Seal before he becomes intangible?

Did you not read my post?

[White Zetsu]

rds would still grab his soul even if madara was intangible and after rds starts pulling the soul out, it is very hard to move as proven with oro in episode 73 where he could barely move only his fingers and his mouth

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

Did you not read my post?

You said he would be much faster as he's in his prime and I understand that.

So he would attempt to grab hold of Madara and if he does, what's stopping Madara from becoming intangible and having Hiruzen slip right through?

[Kuromaki]

Kakashi? Appealing? Lololol
rds would still grab his soul even if madara was intangible and after rds starts pulling the soul out, it is very hard to move as proven with oro in episode 73 where he could barely move only his fingers and his mouth
Doesn't that only apply to Minato's . WHen Sarutobi used it, he had to grab Orochimaru.

[Slack 40]

Since the OP said basically Prime hiruzen, we can only use his hyped feats or it isn't a battle because we haven't seen anything from Hiruzen's feats

so using hype Prime Hiruzen was said to be strongest hokage so greater then the 1st hokage, who managed to fight madara and live. Prime Hiruzen wins this seeing that he was the strongest ninja at the time