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heroeking
06-09-2011, 05:46 PM
Kakashi vs Gaara

Starting Distance: 50 Yards
Location: Where Sasuke fought Killerbee
Conditions: Gaara shill can use Shukaku. Kakashi already has his sharingan activated.
Restictions: Kakashi can't use MS.
State of Mind: In Character

Edit: Gaara can't use Quicksand Waterfall Flow (sand creation technique against kimmimaro)
(http://naruto.wikia.com/index.php?title=Quicksand_Waterfall_Flow&action=formedit)

megabbaut
06-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Gaara wins. Sand Burial, GG.

Draco Uchiha
06-09-2011, 06:12 PM
not if he can't catch him, plus they are sorrounded by what grass, forest, water. I'm pretty sure kakashi wouldn't lose that easily.

Uchiha Sora
06-09-2011, 06:17 PM
Well I would say that Kakashi uses water dragon jutsu and renders gaara's sand unusable, but the arc where that was shown was filler. :/

Legend
06-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Gaara has plenty of sand. I bet Kakashi doesn't have plenty of suiton.

Sagepain
06-09-2011, 08:40 PM
Gaara uses sand burial, Kakashi really can't do anything without Mangekyo sharingan.

Uchiha Sora
06-09-2011, 08:50 PM
Gaara has plenty of sand. I bet Kakashi doesn't have plenty of suiton.

Well the location is Unraikyo, so kakashi could use the water in the lake. Gaara would be limited to the sand in his gourd right? I remember something like him making more sand by doing something with the ground, but I don't know if that was in a filler or when he fought Kimimaro.

heroeking
06-09-2011, 08:51 PM
Gaara uses sand burial, Kakashi really can't do anything without Mangekyo sharingan.

You really think "Kakashi" would get caught in a simple sand burial technique. Kakashi would just use a clone or substitution just like he usually does.

Sagepain
06-09-2011, 10:33 PM
You really think "Kakashi" would get caught in a simple sand burial technique. Kakashi would just use a clone or substitution just like he usually does.

and gaara would do it again, Kakashi can't really do anything to gaara especially when he has the shukaku.

Sand burial itself is a simple technique, but gaara has shown strategy in HOW he catches his opponent in it.

When he fought Kimmimaro he diverted Kimmimaro's attention to the sky with his sand drizzle techinique and then proceeded to envelope Kimmimaro's body in his sand to activate sand burial, Not anyone can survive that.

Even if kakashi go's underground he can't injure gaara, If he comes from behind with lightning blade, it won't get through gaara's auto sand shield, and if he decides to grab gaara and pull him underground I'm sure gaara can turn the ground around him into sand at the expense of some chakra.

Gaara can enter full shukaku mode and kakashi is done for, nothing he has can beat him.

Legend
06-10-2011, 12:02 AM
He still wouldn't be able to dodge large scale sand attacks. Sand mayhem from all directions, Kakashi can't take all of it. Plain and simple. What attack does he have to counter all the sand? Kamui and suiton? Absolutely useless. Gaara's stamina is sufficient enough to rape Kakashi.

Kakashi Hatake_Yamato
06-10-2011, 12:06 AM
im pretty sure kakashi will able to figure out something...i believe in him!!

Legend
06-10-2011, 12:13 AM
Like what? The best move he has his Kamui, which won't work at all. Gaara can easily fly upwards instead of horizontally. Once airborne Kakashi done for.

Shikamaru Nara
06-10-2011, 03:21 AM
In terms of an unrestricted fight, Kakashi easily takes it.

But since he's nerfed of MS, Gaara wins.

chidoriroar
06-10-2011, 06:37 AM
gaara wins, the location is filled with rock wich gaara turns to sand

royelric
06-10-2011, 06:38 AM
Most Defintly Gaara His Ultimate Defense Plus His Usage Of The Terrain Gaara Would Win. Even If Kakashi Used His Mangekyo He'll Become Groggy Giving Gaara An Open Hit

HyuugaSenju
06-10-2011, 06:55 AM
kakashi, he could copy some of gaara's jutsus with sharingan

heroeking
06-10-2011, 07:52 AM
Kakashi's lightning blade could easily penetrate Gaara's sand.

Legend
06-10-2011, 09:15 AM
kakashi, he could copy some of gaara's jutsus with sharingan

Kakashi still can only use doton, not suna.


Kakashi's lightning blade could easily penetrate Gaara's sand.

Lol. Not large scale Raikiri. Gaara's offense is going to take too much area for Kakashi to handle. Gaara has access to vast amount of sand. Therefore seas of sand, in that sense Kakashi's Raikiri will not handle all of that sand.

heroeking
06-10-2011, 09:32 AM
Part 1 Sasuke penetrated Gaara's sand quite easily and Gaara was using all the sand in his gourd. o create his dome.

Kakashi can also release gates, and he has genjutsu.

Legend
06-10-2011, 09:39 AM
Part 1 Sasuke penetrated Gaara's sand quite easily and Gaara was using all the sand in his gourd. o create his dome.

Kakashi can also release gates, and he has genjutsu.

That was a dome. Why would he need a dome? His opponent can't handle Gaara's offense at all, therefore he would need less defenses.

Kakashi has Genjutsu? Where is this in the manga? I was looking for that at one time. Kakashi can release Gates? This was never seen, therefore cannot be attested. And even if he did have Genjutsu, once Gaara gets airborne it's over, Kakashi can't execute it properly

heroeking
06-10-2011, 09:45 AM
That was a dome. Why would he need a dome? His opponent can't handle Gaara's offense at all, therefore he would need less defenses.

Kakashi has Genjutsu? Where is this in the manga? I was looking for that at one time. Kakashi can release Gates? This was never seen, therefore cannot be attested. And even if he did have Genjutsu, once Gaara gets airborne it's over, Kakashi can't execute it properly

The sand dome shows how strong penetrating lightning attacks are. One lightning blade could break through Gaara sand no matter how hard he pressures.

Kakashi used genjutsu against Sakura at the beginning of the series, when team 7 fought Kakashi. Kakashi has used front lotus before, I believe during the sakura and naruto vs kakashi practice fight.

Legend
06-10-2011, 10:00 AM
The sand dome shows how strong penetrating lightning attacks are. One lightning blade could break through Gaara sand no matter how hard he pressures.

Not my point, I'm not impugning he can penetrate, my point is that there's too much suna to use Raikiri on. You have suna coming from every angle; one Raikiri ain't gonna cut it.


Kakashi used genjutsu against Sakura at the beginning of the series, when team 7 fought Kakashi. Kakashi has used front lotus before, I believe during the sakura and naruto vs kakashi practice fight.

You're going to have to give me links. Secondly, parlor tricks won't work on Gaara. He'll be in the air flying above Kakashi.

heroeking
06-10-2011, 10:35 AM
Not my point, I'm not impugning he can penetrate, my point is that there's too much suna to use Raikiri on. You have suna coming from every angle; one Raikiri ain't gonna cut it.



You're going to have to give me links. Secondly, parlor tricks won't work on Gaara. He'll be in the air flying above Kakashi.

Chapter 6 page 16: Kakashi uses genjutsu on Sakura.

Kakashi used hidden lotus/front lotus against Kakuzu.

Out of character for Gaara to go flying straight into a fight.

Ultimate combatant
06-10-2011, 11:21 AM
Kakashi can use Rasengan too.

In my opinion Gaara would be defeated. To be honest, I always were of the opinion that beginning of Shippuden Naruto, could relatively easily beat Gaara. Something, that was later shown in Naruto Shippuden: The Inheritors of Will of Fire.

Of course, I`m not expecting others to accept it, since it is not Manga, but I see Gaara losing in a similar way.

I just don`t see that Gaara improved as much as some seem believe. Well that is only mine opinion, but the only thing he improved was speed of his sand and reactions speed. In his fight with Deidara he uses more sand than he does before time skip, however, do note that he is fighting in his own village, which is full of sand unlike places at which he fought before!!! :D

Also, just like speed of his sand increased, so did other characters speed increase, so evading sand shouldn`t be a problem, let alone for Kakashi and even more if Sharingan is activated.

Now, the way I see Gaara winning would be if he managed to fly high enough for Kakashi, which is unlikely since they are less than 50 meters apart.
But if he does, Gaara would probably win, Kakashi would still have a small chance, though!!! :D

Legend
06-10-2011, 11:34 AM
Kakashi can use Rasengan too.

In my opinion Gaara would be defeated. To be honest, I always were of the opinion that beginning of Shippuden Naruto, could relatively easily beat Gaara. Something, that was later shown in Naruto Shippuden: The Inheritors of Will of Fire.

Of course, I`m not expecting others to accept it, since it is not Manga, but I see Gaara losing in a similar way.

I just don`t see that Gaara improved as much as some seem believe. Well that is only mine opinion, but the only thing he improved was speed of his sand and reactions speed. In his fight with Deidara he uses more sand than he does before time skip, however, do note that he is fighting in his own village, which is full of sand unlike places at which he fought before!!! :D

Also, just like speed of his sand increased, so did other characters speed increase, so evading sand shouldn`t be a problem, let alone for Kakashi and even more if Sharingan is activated.

Now, the way I see Gaara winning would be if he managed to fly high enough for Kakashi, which is unlikely since they are less than 50 meters apart.
But if he does, Gaara would probably win, Kakashi would still have a small chance, though!!! :D


His sand is not like the normal sand. He has a fixed amount, he can easily make more using the earth as seen with Kimmimaro, but never did during the fight with Deidara. Furthermore, it was never seen that he used suna from the village itself. The suna he has, and the suna in the village are two different things. Because, the suna in his gourge is already prepared with chakra. IMO he has to prove unduly to become Kazekage, after the Chuunin exams lol.

Also, that's fine. He does have the Rasengan, although it doesn't help. The area of Gaara's sand is paramount in the fight, because Kakashi has no defense to it.

Another thing, he can easily acquire all the sand he can hold using the earth anyways.

Sagepain
06-10-2011, 12:04 PM
Gaara can use shukaku in this fight right? or did I read the OP post wrong?, That alone should grant gaara victory

heroeking
06-10-2011, 12:07 PM
Gaara can use shukaku in this fight right? or did I read the OP post wrong?, That alone should grant gaara victory

You know that part 1 Naruto took on shukaku, right?

Sagepain
06-10-2011, 12:11 PM
You know that part 1 Naruto took on shukaku, right?

you know that Part 1 naruto summoned Gamabunta right?

heroeking
06-10-2011, 12:16 PM
you know that Part 1 naruto summoned Gamabunta right?

Shukaku and Gamabunta did no damage to one another whatsoever. Gaara is also vulnerable because when he goes Shukaku mode his body is left open on top of his head.

heroeking
06-10-2011, 12:21 PM
you know that Part 1 naruto summoned Gamabunta right?

Gamabunta did nothing. Naruto headbutted Gaara while in Shukaku mode.

Ultimate combatant
06-10-2011, 12:34 PM
His sand is not like the normal sand. He has a fixed amount, he can easily make more using the earth as seen with Kimmimaro, but never did during the fight with Deidara. Furthermore, it was never seen that he used suna from the village itself. The suna he has, and the suna in the village are two different things. Because, the suna in his gourge is already prepared with chakra. IMO he has to prove unduly to become Kazekage, after the Chuunin exams lol.

Also, that's fine. He does have the Rasengan, although it doesn't help. The area of Gaara's sand is paramount in the fight, because Kakashi has no defense to it.

Another thing, he can easily acquire all the sand he can hold using the earth anyways.

Well, yeah, he probably did have to prove to be worthy of being a Kage. However what makes me confused is the fact, that he his father, who was fourth Kazekage wanted to kill Gaara and never succeeded. That alone is strange, since it implies Gaara was the strongest in the village back then.

What makes it even more strange is that, it was stated that he was never hurt, which means nobobody got even close to killing Gaara. Yet the first one who hurts him is Rock Lee. I mean, if the entire village couldn`t kill him, how weak must have been the fourth Kazekage?

And what is more, the strongest Kazekage was supposedly third Raikage, yet Sasori managed to beat him even when he didn`t have Kazekage`s puppet and arguably had less than 100 puppets.

Anyway, by the rules Gaara is not allowed to create sand from earth.

I don`t really care about the winner, I more wonder what is your opinion on this subject?!! :D

Sagepain
06-10-2011, 01:16 PM
Gamabunta did nothing. Naruto headbutted Gaara while in Shukaku mode.

you forgot the part where Naruto used a collaboration transformation jutsu with gamabunta so that he can have a body with claws to grab and keep Shukaku still, while naruto headbutted gaara.

kakashi can't summon boss size animals and can't get to gaara before he's blasted by Air bullets or crushed by Sand burial.

The only reason why naruto survived those attacks was because he had gamabunta nothing else.

heroeking
06-10-2011, 01:22 PM
you forgot the part where Naruto used a collaboration transformation jutsu with gamabunta so that he can have a body with claws to grab and keep Shukaku still, while naruto headbutted gaara.

kakashi can't summon boss size animals and can't get to gaara before he's blasted by Air bullets or crushed by Sand burial.

The only reason why naruto survived those attacks was because he had gamabunta nothing else.


Kakashi could easily avoid the air bullets. Shukaku was already still, Naruto just got closer. Kakashi would never fall for just a sand coffin jutsu. Automatic substitution or Clone.

Sagepain
06-10-2011, 01:25 PM
So your saying kakashi will dodge EVERY single attack? not possible especially when air bullets are several times bigger than his entire body.

Sand can also come from shukaku's body itself since its made of sand, lots of surprise attacks right there, since kakashi would have to walk on him to get to gaara's body.

heroeking
06-10-2011, 01:45 PM
So your saying kakashi will dodge EVERY single attack? not possible especially when air bullets are several times bigger than his entire body.

Sand can also come from shukaku's body itself since its made of sand, lots of surprise attacks right there, since kakashi would have to walk on him to get to gaara's body.


Kakashi's sharingan limits a lot of Gaara's moves. Out of character for Gaara to go straight Shukaku anyway. Kakashi could just underground while Shukaku is shooting wind bullets and lightning blade Gaara in the face.

Uchiha Sora
06-10-2011, 01:52 PM
Kakashi's sharingan limits a lot of Gaara's moves. Out of character for Gaara to go straight Shukaku anyway. Kakashi could just underground while Shukaku is shooting wind bullets and lightning blade Gaara in the face.

Yeah I wonder why Naruto didn't do that...(Sarcasm intended)

1)Shukaku would feel Kakashi on him
2)Kakashi can't jump that high
3)Even if he could, he wouldn't jump fast enough

There's a reason why Naruto needed Gamabunta to hold him still :/

EDIT: I think Kakashi released a gate when he used Primary lotus. I sort of remember something like that. But I could be wrong.

Well if the ground at Unraikyo is sand and not water, then Sand Tsunami?

heroeking
06-10-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah I wonder why Naruto didn't do that...(Sarcasm intended)

1)Shukaku would feel Kakashi on him
2)Kakashi can't jump that high
3)Even if he could, he wouldn't jump fast enough

There's a reason why Naruto needed Gamabunta to hold him still :/

EDIT: I think Kakashi released a gate when he used Primary lotus. I sort of remember something like that. But I could be wrong.

Well if the ground at Unraikyo is sand and not water, then Sand Tsunami?

You know that Kakashi is faster than part 1 Naruto, right? Yes Kakashi can use gates also. Out of character for Gaara to go straight Shukaku. Where killerbee and Sasuke fought their fighting on Earth not Sand.

Uchiha Sora
06-10-2011, 02:27 PM
You know that Kakashi is faster than part 1 Naruto, right? Yes Kakashi can use gates also. Out of character for Gaara to go straight Shukaku. Where killerbee and Sasuke fought their fighting on Earth not Sand.


Yes, but so fast that Shukaku wouldn't react?

When did he use gates? When he used primary lotus? Thats only the first gate IIRC, and he didn't show increased speed after that. It doesn't mean he can open all of them just because he opened one.

If he's screwed, he will use shukaku.

Gaara could also just float in the air, and spam stuff. It's not out of character. The only time shippuden Gaara fought was when his opponent could fly. It's not something he doesn't like to do, or isn't allowed to do.

megabbaut
06-10-2011, 02:31 PM
The only time Kakashi opened a gate was when he was rock climbing.

Uchiha Sora
06-10-2011, 02:32 PM
The only time Kakashi opened a gate was when he was rock climbing.

lolwut. I think i remember that

It's implied he opened a gate since Initial/Primary Lotus requires a gate to be opened IIRC

Legend
06-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Well, yeah, he probably did have to prove to be worthy of being a Kage. However what makes me confused is the fact, that he his father, who was fourth Kazekage wanted to kill Gaara and never succeeded. That alone is strange, since it implies Gaara was the strongest in the village back then.

What makes it even more strange is that, it was stated that he was never hurt, which means nobobody got even close to killing Gaara. Yet the first one who hurts him is Rock Lee. I mean, if the entire village couldn`t kill him, how weak must have been the fourth Kazekage?

And what is more, the strongest Kazekage was supposedly third Raikage, yet Sasori managed to beat him even when he didn`t have Kazekage`s puppet and arguably had less than 100 puppets.

Anyway, by the rules Gaara is not allowed to create sand from earth.

I don`t really care about the winner, I more wonder what is your opinion on this subject?!! :D

Well, the fixed amount of sand he has now is commensurate with the Deidara fight.

You want to know my opinion, eh? Well, I was thinking that Gaara's father never "succeeded", because he still actually loves Gaara. It's not that Gaara is that powerful, trust me. If it was up to Sunagakure, they'd have other ninja from other villages come on a mission to kill Gaara. My prediction is that Gaara's father actually loved him, or "faked", like he was going to do something when really he couldn't.

Uchiha Sora
06-10-2011, 04:47 PM
Or he was too scared and made others do it :O

Legend
06-10-2011, 06:24 PM
Right, my theory can co-exist with that. But, my point still stands. He didn't want to kill his son, otherwise he would've been dead. Gaara was obviously a reckless unintelligent person as a baby, hence baby.

[Shikamaru]
06-10-2011, 09:25 PM
There's a simple solution to this. Kakashi stays on the water.

Sand is entirely useless underwater.

If he can't dodge an attack, he can simply drop below and come up with a water vortex or dragon justu, rendering his sand completely useless. Also, Kakashi has defensive earth ninjutsu if he's caught on the ground.

Gaara's sand speed features are debatable. Though I think it's safe to say Kakashi could dodge it, simply because he blitzed both Asura, and reacted to Deva Path. While Gaara's only sand speed feature is blindsiding Sasuke/Raikage.

Legend
06-10-2011, 09:38 PM
;5135358']There's a simple solution to this. Kakashi stays on the water.

Sand is entirely useless underwater.

If he can't dodge an attack, he can simply drop below and come up with a water vortex or dragon justu, rendering his sand completely useless. Also, Kakashi has defensive earth ninjutsu if he's caught on the ground.

Gaara's sand speed features are debatable. Though I think it's safe to say Kakashi could dodge it, simply because he blitzed both Asura, and reacted to Deva Path. While Gaara's only sand speed feature is blindsiding Sasuke/Raikage.

They're still fairly far away from the water. Where Sasuke fought was on the land.

Even so. Kakashi can't hit Gaara when airborne, so it doesn't matter.

[Shikamaru]
06-10-2011, 09:43 PM
They're still fairly far away from the water. Where Sasuke fought was on the land.

Even so. Kakashi can't hit Gaara when airborne, so it doesn't matter.
Airborne on what?

The only sand he has is on his back, and that's barely enough for a sand coffin.

You expect him to use half of that to glide on top of above.. and the rest to protect himself?

Where's his offensive?

Legend
06-10-2011, 09:50 PM
;5135406']Airborne on what?

The only sand he has is on his back, and that's barely enough for a sand coffin.

You expect him to use half of that to glide on top of above.. and the rest to protect himself?

Where's his offensive?

LOL.

Airborne on sandclouds-(Chapter 248 p.12)

What do you mean not enough sand? Are you kidding? He can easily recycle the sand. Look at all this sand, (Chapter 248 p.13).

Where's his offense? Take a clear look at all of his fights, that's where his offense is.

[Shikamaru]
06-10-2011, 09:56 PM
LOL.

Airborne on sandclouds-(Chapter 248 p.12)

What do you mean not enough sand? Are you kidding? He can easily recycle the sand. Look at all this sand, (Chapter 248 p.13).

Where's his offense? Take a clear look at all of his fights, that's where his offense is.
Read title post.

Gaara is not allowed to create sand out of nearby minerals.

There is no sand in this area.

His gourd barely holds enough sand to create a sandcloud itself.

Yes, He has no offense if he retreats above.

Either way, he loses.

Legend
06-10-2011, 10:04 PM
;5135457']Read title post.

Gaara is not allowed to create sand out of nearby minerals.

There is no sand in this area.

His gourd barely holds enough sand to create a sandcloud itself.

Yes, He has no offense if he retreats above.

Either way, he loses.

So basically what you're implying is that he used the sand from the village? That wasn't shown.

When fighting Kimmimaro, he had sand galore. He has enough. Either way, Kakashi gets owned. Not enough jutsu to cover the wide area he needs to.

[Shikamaru]
06-10-2011, 10:14 PM
So basically what you're implying is that he used the sand from the village? That wasn't shown.

When fighting Kimmimaro, he had sand galore. He has enough. Either way, Kakashi gets owned. Not enough jutsu to cover the wide area he needs to.
When fighting Kimimaro he drew the minerals up from the ground and created sand compounds.

When fighting in the village, he was shown to use the sand.

And no, I'm sorry, Gaara isn't god. He can't make sand out of air.

Either way, Gaara doesn't have enough to successfully capture and kill Kakashi.

Gaara doesn't have enough sand to cover any amount of ground, let alone protect himself.

Legend
06-10-2011, 10:49 PM
;5135536']When fighting Kimimaro he drew the minerals up from the ground and created sand compounds.

When fighting in the village, he was shown to use the sand.

And no, I'm sorry, Gaara isn't god. He can't make sand out of air.

Either way, Gaara doesn't have enough to successfully capture and kill Kakashi.

Gaara doesn't have enough sand to cover any amount of ground, let alone protect himself.

So what.? And actually, in the Chuunin exams he never used the earth's sand.

Where are you getting this argument from?! Show me the pages other than the Kimmimaro fight where he grinds up the earth's minerals. When Rock Lee broke Gaara's gourge, the sand fell, he has a fixed amount and that's it. But he can recycle it, because he controls it. Deidara said he ate Gaara's sand.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 12:26 PM
So basically what you're implying is that he used the sand from the village? That wasn't shown.

When fighting Kimmimaro, he had sand galore. He has enough. Either way, Kakashi gets owned. Not enough jutsu to cover the wide area he needs to.

Gaara can only use the amount of sand in his gourd. In the Gaara vs Deidara fight he used/gathered Sand from the village.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Gaara can't actually float without creating or using more sand.

In the Kimmimaro fight he created snad.
In the Deidara fight he gathered sand.

Legend
06-11-2011, 01:06 PM
Gaara can't actually float without creating or using more sand.

In the Kimmimaro fight he created snad.
In the Deidara fight he gathered sand.

What page provides evidence of this? Not the Kimmimaro fight, the Deidara fight. It takes him a while to actually make the sand. He still recycles his sand, he doesn't need more. He'll use it again and again. He can have sixteen units of sand, and at the end of a good fight end up with only eleven, because the sand doesn't disappear.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 01:59 PM
What page provides evidence of this? Not the Kimmimaro fight, the Deidara fight. It takes him a while to actually make the sand. He still recycles his sand, he doesn't need more. He'll use it again and again. He can have sixteen units of sand, and at the end of a good fight end up with only eleven, because the sand doesn't disappear.

How can you recycle more sand than you previously had???????? He is limited to the sand in his gourd.

Naruto manga 248 page 12: Deidara acknowledges that Gaara has a geographical advantage.

Naruto manga 216 Gaara creates sand against Kimmimaro.

Shikamaru Nara
06-11-2011, 02:37 PM
How can you recycle more sand than you previously had????????

He didn't say that. He said that you can recycle it, nothing about making more.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 03:00 PM
He didn't say that. He said that you can recycle it, nothing about making more.

Maybe you should look at what he quoted before you refer back at me. He's stating that Gaara can float by just recycling his sand which he hasn't shown the abilitity to do.

By manga chapters I've proven Gaara needs to creating or gather more sand to float which is restricted. It also not possible since Gaara can't float without using more sand so recycling it is irrelevant unless you're implying Gaara can recyle more sand than he previously had.

Legend
06-11-2011, 03:14 PM
Maybe you should look at what he quoted before you refer back at me. He's stating that Gaara can float by just recycling his sand which he hasn't shown the abilitity to do.

By manga chapters I've proven Gaara needs to creating or gather more sand to float which is restricted. It also not possible since Gaara can't float without using more sand so recycling it is irrelevant unless you're implying Gaara can recyle more sand than he previously had.

No you haven't. First off I said he can utilize sand without it wasting away.

He hits with Kakashi five units of sand, he can recover that five units of sand back. Where would it waste away???

He has enough sand for a cloud, look at the Gaara v. Kimmimaro fight. He still has enough suna.

(Chapter 215 p.9)- He hasn't re-created sand yet.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 03:19 PM
No you haven't. First off I said he can utilize sand without it wasting away.

He hits with Kakashi five units of sand, he can recover that five units of sand back. Where would it waste away???

He has enough sand for a cloud, look at the Gaara v. Kimmimaro fight. He still has enough suna.

(Chapter 215 p.9)- He hasn't re-created sand yet.


I've never denied the fact that Gaara can recover sand, I know he can. But he hasn't shown the ability to fly on sand without creating or gathering more than what's in his gourd. Chapter 215 p.9 is irrelevant he isn't flying/floating on his sand he's just releasing it from the gourd like he always does. He always releases his sand from the gourd like that. How does that pertain to anything we're discussing????????

heroeking
06-11-2011, 03:28 PM
No you haven't. First off I said he can utilize sand without it wasting away.

He hits with Kakashi five units of sand, he can recover that five units of sand back. Where would it waste away???

He has enough sand for a cloud, look at the Gaara v. Kimmimaro fight. He still has enough suna.

(Chapter 215 p.9)- He hasn't re-created sand yet.

Chapter 215 p.18 you notice he uses desert avalanche to create sand but he hasn't floated on sand yet. Then he proceeds to use sand floating ability later.

Legend
06-11-2011, 03:28 PM
I've never denied the fact that Gaara can recover sand, I know he can. But he hasn't shown the ability to fly on sand without creating or gathering more than what's in his gourd. Chapter 215 p.9 is irrelevant he isn't flying/floating on his sand he's just releasing it from the gourd like he always does. He always releases his sand from the gourd like that. How does that pertain to anything we're discussing????????

So basically what you're implying, is that the sand cloud had more sand in it than he has intrinsically. :(

No offense, but that's wrong. He had a sea of sand. He still has the ability to manipulate sand, right? The amount of sand has nothing to do with that, especially since he's shown more sand that was during the Deidara fight(the sand cloud).

heroeking
06-11-2011, 03:35 PM
So basically what you're implying, is that the sand cloud had more sand in it than he has intrinsically. :(

No offense, but that's wrong. He had a sea of sand. He still has the ability to manipulate sand, right? The amount of sand has nothing to do with that, especially since he's shown more sand that was during the Deidara fight(the sand cloud).


You can't confirm whether the sand is dense or how light the sand is packed. In the Deidara fight he gathered sand from the village which I've already explained.

Like I said he hasn't shown the ability to fly/float on sand without creating or gathering more.

Legend
06-11-2011, 03:51 PM
You can't confirm whether the sand is dense or how light the sand is packed. In the Deidara fight he gathered sand from the village which I've already explained.

Like I said he hasn't shown the ability to fly/float on sand without creating or gathering more.



(Chapter 217 p.18) He's floating on his sand, him and Rock Lee. Once made in his gourge, it's just like the other sand in it.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 06:01 PM
(Chapter 217 p.18) He's floating on his sand, him and Rock Lee. Once made in his gourge, it's just like the other sand in it.


You just don't get it.........

Did he use desert avalanche after or before he used the technique????????

Legend
06-11-2011, 06:05 PM
You just don't get it.........

Did he use desert avalanche after or before he used the technique????????

Before. Obviously.

The sea of sand was before grinding earth's minerals.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 07:04 PM
Before. Obviously.

The sea of sand was before grinding earth's minerals.

What you just said, proved me right.

Legend
06-11-2011, 07:30 PM
What you just said, proved me right.

No. It proves he doesn't need to create the sand to have a sea of sand, that's what it proves.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 08:06 PM
No. It proves he doesn't need to create the sand to have a sea of sand, that's what it proves.

You're contradicting yourself. You just said he he used desert avalanche before he started to float. Case closed.

Legend
06-11-2011, 08:46 PM
No. You're trying to prove he creates the sand, am I right???

He clearly didn't. He first used that sea sand technique, then he floats without having to create sand. I've proven all I want to prove, and all I need to. Therefore he can float. What contradiction?

"Before. Obviously.

The sea of sand was before grinding earth's minerals. "-Legend

You're argument is presuming that he created sand before the cloud. Whatever, I showed you he did avalanche and cloud before creating sand. No one contradicted anything, you were the one presuming, and didn't look at the fight right.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 09:06 PM
No. You're trying to prove he creates the sand, am I right???

He clearly didn't. He first used that sea sand technique, then he floats without having to create sand. I've proven all I want to prove, and all I need to. Therefore he can float. What contradiction?

"Before. Obviously.

The sea of sand was before grinding earth's minerals. "-Legend

You're argument is presuming that he created sand before the cloud. Whatever, I showed you he did avalanche and cloud before creating sand. No one contradicted anything, you were the one presuming, and didn't look at the fight right.


You're still contradicting yourself. Can you prove he can float without creating sand????????

Obviously he would have used the technique earlier. Gaara has never been shown the ability to use that technique without gathering/creating sand which you proved.

Legend
06-11-2011, 09:30 PM
You're still contradicting yourself. Can you prove he can float without creating sand????????

Obviously he would have used the technique earlier. Gaara has never been shown the ability to use that technique without gathering/creating sand which you proved.

Actually, ok look. What you're saying is that it's "possible" it could've came from the ground. Actually that's an non-introduced feat, so it would've came out his gourge. It's like arguing that when someone throws a kunai, the kunai came from their shoe. No, it never came from their shoe yet.

heroeking
06-11-2011, 09:42 PM
Actually, ok look. What you're saying is that it's "possible" it could've came from the ground. Actually that's an non-introduced feat, so it would've came out his gourge. It's like arguing that when someone throws a kunai, the kunai came from their shoe. No, it never came from their shoe yet.

I'm debating that it's not possible for Gaara to use that technique without gathering/creating sand. The difference is I have proof you don't. Show me anywhere where Gaara used his floating ability without gathering/creating sand. You can't assume something which isn't possible. Yet I can disprove of your opinions based on the manga. It never showed sand coming out of his gourd to use his floating technique anyway.

Legend
06-11-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm debating that it's not possible for Gaara to use that technique without gathering/creating sand. The difference is I have proof you don't. Show me anywhere where Gaara used his floating ability without gathering/creating sand. You can't assume something which isn't possible. Yet I can disprove of your opinions based on the manga. It never showed sand coming out of his gourd to use his floating technique anyway.

Ok, what do what you want? The sand Gaara's techniques comes out of his gourge until grind introduction, that's undeniable. But you said it comes from the ground. I told you that ability to grind sand from the earth was not introduced, therefore it wouldn't happen. After the clouds he created the sand, therefore he doesn't create sand until the manga shows it for the first time.

Once again, the point does not make sense, because that would be a new technique, one that has not been shown. So if he did, they would've shown it, but they didn't, did they? Therefore we assume it came from the gourge. When ninjas throw kunai we don't assume it was from their shoes do we? No, that's absolutely absurd. I'm done arguing with your logic, "the negative nor positive" wasn't shown argument, it's a strawhat fallacy.

Oh I know what you want. What you want is this, every time we see one of Deidara's clay creations, you want a previous scan of his hand actually chewing the clay, you know because as readers we're incompetent and can't infer anything.

Once again, your logic is wrong, becauase the manga has not informed of such a technique, so how is x supposed to be true, when x is not introduced?

heroeking
06-12-2011, 06:00 AM
Ok, what do what you want? The sand Gaara's techniques comes out of his gourge until grind introduction, that's undeniable. But you said it comes from the ground. I told you that ability to grind sand from the earth was not introduced, therefore it wouldn't happen. After the clouds he created the sand, therefore he doesn't create sand until the manga shows it for the first time.

Once again, the point does not make sense, because that would be a new technique, one that has not been shown. So if he did, they would've shown it, but they didn't, did they? Therefore we assume it came from the gourge. When ninjas throw kunai we don't assume it was from their shoes do we? No, that's absolutely absurd. I'm done arguing with your logic, "the negative nor positive" wasn't shown argument, it's a strawhat fallacy.

Oh I know what you want. What you want is this, every time we see one of Deidara's clay creations, you want a previous scan of his hand actually chewing the clay, you know because as readers we're incompetent and can't infer anything.

Once again, your logic is wrong, becauase the manga has not informed of such a technique, so how is x supposed to be true, when x is not introduced?

What are you talking about. Gaara used dersert avalance BEFORE using the sand floating technique. Sand floating technique DID NOT come from his gourd. You CAN'T assume something that hasn't been shown in the series.

Can you show me any instance where Gaara floats before creating or gathering sand???????????????

But you said it comes from the ground. I told you that ability to grind sand from the earth was not introduced, therefore it wouldn't happen.

I never said this, stop putting words in my motuh. I said the sand cloud forms from the sand of the desert avalanche.

Also don't try to compare Deidara wwith this situation, he's already been established.

Legend
06-12-2011, 07:54 AM
What are you talking about. Gaara used dersert avalance BEFORE using the sand floating technique. Sand floating technique DID NOT come from his gourd. You CAN'T assume something that hasn't been shown in the series.

Can you show me any instance where Gaara floats before creating or gathering sand???????????????



I never said this, stop putting words in my motuh. I said the sand cloud forms from the sand of the desert avalanche.

Also don't try to compare Deidara wwith this situation, he's already been established.

Oh, ok.

Both entities are sand=same mass and volumes per mole. You can't have the same thing made in two different complete ways. Name me one.

Sand in the gourge, and sand in the groud are the exact same thing. Ice artificially made, and naturally made are the same thing.

One thing can't be made in different ways.

Gaara controls the other sand with his chakra just like he does with the gourge, they're actually the same thing.

Shikamaru Nara
06-12-2011, 08:00 AM
Maybe you should look at what he quoted before you refer back at me. He's stating that Gaara can float by just recycling his sand which he hasn't shown the abilitity to do.

By manga chapters I've proven Gaara needs to creating or gather more sand to float which is restricted. It also not possible since Gaara can't float without using more sand so recycling it is irrelevant unless you're implying Gaara can recyle more sand than he previously had.

I stand by what I said, because I'm right, which happens quite often.

Chapter 213, page 6. Gaara cushions Lee with a bed of sand. Then look at chapter 213 page 7. Gaara lifts up the sand from the ground. All he'd have to do is change it into a bed of sand, what it originally was, and then float on it. What don't you understand about that?

He has a gourd. Full of sand. On his back. I DIDN'T SAY THAT!

Legend
06-12-2011, 08:21 AM
OMG, I've been arguing for nothing. In the rules it doesn't say he can't create sand, doesn't have to be avalanche either.

Uchiha Sora
06-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Wait, I'm confused. What is quicksand waterflow?

Legend
06-12-2011, 11:06 AM
Wait, I'm confused. What is quicksand waterflow?

Gaara's techniqe, it produces quicksand, that's all.

Sagepain
06-12-2011, 11:52 AM
on naruto wikia quicksand waterfall flow is sand Tsunami, so what exactly is banned from gaara? sand Tsunami or his sand creation technique?

Another question is how did Gaara create shukaku's body with sand, when hasin't shown his sand creation technique until fighting kimmimaro, we can assume he didin't know how to create sand yet and that he simply had enough sand to do that?

megabbaut
06-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Nothing from Gaara is banned.

[Shikamaru]
06-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Except sand creation technique.

Which is why he loses.

Legend
06-12-2011, 12:52 PM
;5140397']Except sand creation technique.

Which is why he loses.

He needs that to win? WT*? He'll just get airborne.

Uchiha Sora
06-12-2011, 01:16 PM
Quicksand water flow isn't how he makes sand....? You don't even see him make sand o_o

RINNEMAN1
06-12-2011, 01:23 PM
and gaara would do it again, Kakashi can't really do anything to gaara especially when he has the shukaku.

Sand burial itself is a simple technique, but gaara has shown strategy in HOW he catches his opponent in it.

When he fought Kimmimaro he diverted Kimmimaro's attention to the sky with his sand drizzle techinique and then proceeded to envelope Kimmimaro's body in his sand to activate sand burial, Not anyone can survive that.

Even if kakashi go's underground he can't injure gaara, If he comes from behind with lightning blade, it won't get through gaara's auto sand shield, and if he decides to grab gaara and pull him underground I'm sure gaara can turn the ground around him into sand at the expense of some chakra.

Gaara can enter full shukaku mode and kakashi is done for, nothing he has can beat him.

Gaara doesn't have Shukaku.

But he wins due to sand tsunami.

Sagepain
06-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Gaara doesn't have Shukaku.

But he wins due to sand tsunami.

The OP said he still has shukaku unless I'm reading wrong.

RINNEMAN1
06-12-2011, 01:40 PM
The OP said he still has shukaku unless I'm reading wrong.

Didn't see it sorry.

But as I said Gaara still wins.

Shikamaru Nara
06-12-2011, 02:53 PM
;5140397']Except sand creation technique.

Which is why he loses.

Have you read any of the previous posts?

Legend
06-12-2011, 02:54 PM
Quicksand water flow isn't how he makes sand....? You don't even see him make sand o_o

No..


Does everyone understand that THE SAND HE USES COMES FROM HIS GOURGE?? Sand is already in his gourge for pete sake.

Shikamaru Nara
06-12-2011, 02:56 PM
gourd*

And yes. And he can probably get some from the environment.

Legend
06-12-2011, 03:24 PM
gourd*

And yes. And he can probably get some from the environment.

Oh ok, thanks for that correction.

Uchiha Sora
06-12-2011, 04:24 PM
No..


Does everyone understand that THE SAND HE USES COMES FROM HIS GOURGE?? Sand is already in his gourge for pete sake.

Oh I know thats not how he makes sand. You would have understood what I meant if I actually SAID it.

king kakashi
06-12-2011, 08:08 PM
practically gaara would probrably win due to his sand abilitys
but kakashi hides until he finds his apponents weakness so with some carefull planning would probrably win