Kimimaro Vs. Jugo

[vermillion rage 7]

who would win

[SauceK]

Bracken Dance, Jugo isn't dodging that.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Kimimaro would straight own him. I don't think he'd even need to go Curse Mark Stage 2. In base form he would speedblitz Jugo and turn him into Swiss Cheese with his bone sword or Larch Dance. Come to think of it, he probably wouldn't even need to get close, he could just use Digital Shrapnel to take him out from a distance.

[Frost ninja]

Didnt Jugo react to the LC Raikage?

[assassin]

remember, Jugo submitted to Kimimaro and followed him.

This means that Jugo wouldn't even fight back...

Kimimaro, no contest

[Kazumi Saitama]

Juugo not only reacted to Raikage, but he tanked two lethal blows from him and still survived. :/

[Rasengan SageX5]

Just because he reacted and managed to tank 2 hits from the Raikage, that doesn't mean he'll stand up to everything Kimi has.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Just because he reacted and managed to tank 2 hits from the Raikage, that doesn't mean he'll stand up to everything Kimi has.

If Juugo can react to Raikage, then he can react to Kimimaro. Furthermore, Juugo has body armor just as tough as Kimimaro and his body armor, so I do not see his bones actually severely harming Juugo. However, I do see Cursed Seal Chakra Blast and Living Wall Fist: Style One screwing Kimimaro up.

[vermillion rage 7]

jugo is smart so it's not that easy

[Shikamaru Nara]

No he's not. He's bipolar. He can barely keep his emotions in check.

But Juugo should be able to blitz.

[iDooom]

Kimmimaro can suppress Jugo's murderous impulses.
So its likely Jugo won't fight back at all.

[Rasengan SageX5]

I didn't think Juugo was that fast. I thought he was one of those, built like a wall characters that packs one heck of a punch but is pretty slow(like Choji). I think Kimi would be way to fast for him to catch. Also, as has been said, if they are in character, Kimi might be able to talk Juugo down enough that he wouldn't even try to fight back.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Juugo is fast, faster than Kimimaro. By default, the Character States are IC with a killing intent. So, Kimimaro calming Juugo down would not happen. Additionally, IC Juugo would not hesitate to go into CS2. That is the difference between him and most Curse Marked Characters.

[Uchiha Sora]

Juugo is fast, faster than Kimimaro. By default, the Character States are IC with a killing intent. So, Kimimaro calming Juugo down would not happen. Additionally, IC Juugo would not hesitate to go into CS2. That is the difference between him and most Curse Marked Characters.

so wrong, EPIC FAIL

What are you talking about... this is right... lol...

[Kazumi Saitama]

Lmaowut?

Juugo reacted to Raikage and uses chakra boosters to enhance his speed.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Just a helpful hint, speed is broken into three different categories: attack, reaction and movement.

[Bacon]

Kimimaro has an easily accessible all body armor when he's in his first Curse mark transformation. On top of this, he literally strikes hill sized mounds of sand and repels them with ease. Example of this is when Gaara was using his Sand tsunami to try and subdue kimi,but with one strike his scattered the initial wave. Once Gaara actually managed to swallow him and use sand coffin, the tons of sand converged on his body at once and he still survived with moderate injuries. So to say that Kimimaro is a sitting duck is a little far fetched, but this is just my opinion. We don't have anything substantial to base his powers off besides the strength of his bones.

Now let's examine the Brakken dance, this move was used when Kimimaro was 600 to 1800 feet below the earth's surface( I forgot if it was meters or feet) and his still survived. The amount of pressure that would have been is just ridiculous, which in turn gives him a lot of durability. Combine this with the fact that his body is at least 620 something feet and I don't see Jugo countering that. Maybe limping away,but after being struck 1000 times over by a mountain of bone which is harder than steel. I highly doubt the Raikage can top that.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Where are you getting these measurements? :/

Sawarabi no Mai could solo many characters in this verse. However, Kimimaro must achieve CS2 before activating the technique. Unlike Juugo, Kimimaro would only go CS2 if pressured. Juugo would not hesitate to go CS2. Base Kimimaro and CS1 Kimimaro are not doing ;);););) to Juugo. I personally believe Juugo would kill Kimimaro before Kimimaro can go CS2.

EDIT: Raikage would blitz Kimimaro with a decapitation.

[Bacon]

Gaara said it himself right before Kimi used his brakken dance. So logically if Gaara was being accurate, the brakken dance would be 600+ feet in hieght.

As for Kimimaro's personality, he wouldn't be a sitting duck before using his cs2. In fact, it is his advantage not to use his big attacks until he needs to. Wheras Jugo is a brute who will be predictable in the long run.

Mountain of sand > one or two strikes by jugo, which Kimi would have the ability to dodge in the very least.

[Kimimaro Kaguya]

I'll give juugo candy then we both win
Then we can go on a picnic with lord orochimaru;]

[Frost ninja]

... OP didnt state a SoM. Doesn' this mean bloodlust?
So no talking him down, to start.
Kimimaru's braken dance would work if he can get it off, but it looks like he had some time under the sand to prep it. Above this, we don't know his altitude under the sand when he DID use it. He was 600ft below or something or sorts when he went for the final hit, but theres no proof he was still there, and even more proof he wasn't given his quick emergence, when he used braken dance.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Gaara said it himself right before Kimi used his brakken dance. So logically if Gaara was being accurate, the brakken dance would be 600+ feet in hieght.

As for Kimimaro's personality, he wouldn't be a sitting duck before using his cs2. In fact, it is his advantage not to use his big attacks until he needs to. Wheras Jugo is a brute who will be predictable in the long run.

Mountain of sand > one or two strikes by jugo, which Kimi would have the ability to dodge in the very least.

Manga chapter and page?

The only "big attack" Kimimaro has is Sawarabi no Mai, which requires CS2 activation. Juugo is a beast. Once Juugo goes CS2, he is bloodlusted. Kimimaro is intelligent, so I do see Kimimaro predicting Juugo.

Ocean of sand would be a better term, but Cursed Seal Chakra Blast is not to be taken lightly. Furthermore, the two attacks inflict different forms of damage. Sabaku Taiso is designed to crush. Kimimaro is a tank, so there is no wonder why he survived the attack. Cursed Seal Chakra Blast is designed to literally disintegrate you. With chakra boosters, Juugo is faster than Kimimaro and Kimimaro actually slows down when he activates his CS2.

[Uchiha Sora]

Brakken dance was when he made his bones come out of the ground right? How would he hit juugo with it if they came out of his body and move upward? He's not submerged in the ground like before :O

[Bacon]

Manga chapter and page?

The only "big attack" Kimimaro has is Sawarabi no Mai, which requires CS2 activation. Juugo is a beast. Once Juugo goes CS2, he is bloodlusted. Kimimaro is intelligent, so I do see Kimimaro predicting Juugo.

Ocean of sand would be a better term, but Cursed Seal Chakra Blast is not to be taken lightly. Furthermore, the two attacks inflict different forms of damage. Sabaku Taiso is designed to crush. Kimimaro is a tank, so there is no wonder why he survived the attack. Cursed Seal Chakra Blast is designed to literally disintegrate you. With chakra boosters, Juugo is faster than Kimimaro
and Kimimaro actually slows down when he activates his CS2.

I'm not going to bother with the manga, I watched the anime. If you're going to lecture me about the manga being more accurate, let's be real. These are small details in which Gaara said he buried him 600 meters or feet below the surface. If you can't take the character's testimony as fact, I don't know what is. :lol:


Who needs a big attack, Kimimaro possesses incredible strength and his bones scythe thingies have are powerful. Considering the lore of Kimimaro and Jugo, he would catch on to cs1 and 2. You seem to be insinuating that Kimimaro will brush off Jugo's transformations without thinking twice. He'll easily react with Cs1.

Yes I agree, they are two different attacks,but you seem to be saying that Kimimaro is helpless and will stand still while Jugo goes cs2 and blasts him to smithereens. All I am saying is that Kimimaro has a shot at beating him,considering his speed and skill.

[Kazumi Saitama]

I'm not going to bother with the manga, I watched the anime. If you're going to lecture me about the manga being more accurate, let's be real. These are small details in which Gaara said he buried him 600 meters or feet below the surface. If you can't take the character's testimony as fact, I don't know what is. :lol:


Who needs a big attack, Kimimaro possesses incredible strength and his bones scythe thingies have are powerful. Considering the lore of Kimimaro and Jugo, he would catch on to cs1 and 2. You seem to be insinuating that Kimimaro will brush off Jugo's transformations without thinking twice. He'll easily react with Cs1.

Yes I agree, they are two different attacks,but you seem to be saying that Kimimaro is helpless and will stand still while Jugo goes cs2 and blasts him to smithereens. All I am saying is that Kimimaro has a shot at beating him,considering his speed and skill.

Anime feats are considered noncanon regardless. Any and all claims need to be justified with manga reference.

Juugo is just as strong, if not stronger than Kimimaro. I am insinuating that Juugo would promptly go into CS2 while Kimimaro attempts to go into CS1. Unlike Juugo, Kimimaro can not rapidly jump into CS2 formation. And, this is if Juugo gives Kimimaro time to transform.

Point of the matter, Kimimaro can not increase his power as fast as Juugo can. Will Kimimaro stand and get blown up? No, but Juugo will not allow Kimimaro to constantly evade his attacks either. If Juugo must grab Kimimaro in a choke hold before blasting him, Juugo would.

[Uchiha Sora]

Brakken dance was when he made his bones come out of the ground right? How would he hit juugo with it if they came out of his body and move upward? He's not submerged in the ground like before :O

uhm, I just remembered that in Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 1, Kimimaro uses Brakken dance by jumping up over the opponent and activates it from his back.I'm not sure if it was brakken dance though.

And when he was in CS2, he put his palms on the ground and then the bones came up out of the ground.

Think he could do that? I know it's not canon, but I don't see why not. I'd post the link but idk if i'm allowed to :O But then again Ultimate Ninja Series is known for its exaggerated techniques.

[Frost ninja]

Its questionable... but possible if someone can push the envelope enough

[Bacon]

Impossible, only facts derived from the manga are valid.

/isthereasonwhythiswillneverbeadebatesection/

[Uchiha Sora]

Do we even know what part of Kimimaro's body the bones came from? If we don't then okay, nevermind.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Video Games are even more worse than the anime. However, I do not see why Kimimaro would not be able to execute Sawarabi no Mai in said manner.

@Sora: Kimimaro can extract bones from any portion of his body.

[Yori]

Lmao I got my laugh of the day in this thread. Members of this forum never fails me.

Anyway Juugo wins because of SOE

[Uchiha Sora]

Ohhh if the video games were counted as canon...

Neji could shoot kamehamehas,Itachi could bust a town with one fireball, Sasuke and Naruto could explode a town with chidori/rasengan... lol..
Don't you just love the Ultimate Ninja Series?

[[Shikamaru]]

Kimimaro.

CS2 Bracken Dance bones punctured millions of pounds of Gaara's compacted sand over acres of land.

This is no contest, it will rip Jugo into pieces. Reaction speed doesn't make a difference.

[Frost ninja]

Thats if he can get to CS2.
Jugo has kept pace and reacted with Raikage and KB, what evidence of reactions do you have that would prevent Jugo from blitzing and disentigrating Kimi. Also in CS2 he slows down, which makes for even more of a blitz.

Bracken might not even be a factor

[[Shikamaru]]

Thats if he can get to CS2.
Jugo has kept pace and reacted with Raikage and KB, what evidence of reactions do you have that would prevent Jugo from blitzing and disentigrating Kimi. Also in CS2 he slows down, which makes for even more of a blitz.

Bracken might not even be a factor
While in CS1/CS2. Raikage blitzed Jugo into a wall with ease. He never kept pace, he blocked one blitz while Raikage was occupied by Sasuke.

Kimimaro can enter both Curse Forms at the same speed.

There is no evidence suggesting Jugo is faster than Kimimaro in base.

Also, CS2 Kimimaro dodged nearly point blank sand coffins by Gaara's sand.

The same sand that broke apart Sasuke and Raikage, without notice.

In any case, CS2 Kimimaro's bone armor resisted Gaara's multi-acre sand coffin. Then crawled up through it. Jugo literally has no attacks that can destroy Kimimaro in CS2.

[Frost ninja]

;5091942']While in CS1/CS2. Raikage blitzed Jugo into a wall with ease. He never kept pace, he blocked one blitz while Raikage was occupied by Sasuke.

He put up a block against raikage, and he wouldn't have a reason to react because he was setting a trap for the raikage.

He Landed a punch-rocket punch on KB before he could react.


Kimimaro can enter both Curse Forms at the same speed.

Proof me.

There is no evidence suggesting Jugo is faster than Kimimaro in base.

Jugo has a faster CS2 speed. And can get into CS2 faster.

Also, CS2 Kimimaro dodged nearly point blank sand coffins by Gaara's sand.

Proof me.

The same sand that broke apart Sasuke and Raikage, without notice.

PTS vs post-TS. Bad argument.

In any case, CS2 Kimimaro's bone armor resisted Gaara's multi-acre sand coffin. Then crawled up through it. Jugo literally has no attacks that can destroy Kimimaro in CS2.

Issue is if he can even get into CS2 before getting lazered into atoms.

in red

[Bacon]

Kimimaro can enter both Curse Forms at the same speed.

Proof me.

There is no evidence suggesting Jugo is faster than Kimimaro in base.

Jugo has a faster CS2 speed. And can get into CS2 faster.

._. I think the transformation speeds of both is pretty irrelevant.

[[Shikamaru]]

in red
You didn't present any evidence.

All you stated was he blitzed KB with a rocket punch, as he was occupied by Suigetsu and Sasuke. That's not keeping pace with KB, that's blindsiding, In CS1.

He blocked a blitz by Raikage in CS2, I said speed in base form.

I need evidence of how Kimimaro's transformation is slower than Jugos.

[Frost ninja]

;5092037']You didn't present any evidence.

I never claimed to, I simply stated a few things.

All you stated was he blitzed KB with a rocket punch, as he was occupied by Suigetsu and Sasuke. That's not keeping pace with KB, that's blindsiding, In CS1.

I never said blitzed, simply hit before KB could react. For the sake of it though, 411-9. Thats a bit of distance to cover in such a short time...

He blocked a blitz by Raikage in CS2, I said speed in base form.

How does base matter when Jugo pops CS1 or CS2 as soon as the fight starts?

I need evidence of how Kimimaro's transformation is slower than Jugos.

If I recall, you made the claim that they were equal first. You proof yours and I'll disprove it gladly.

in red

[[Shikamaru]]

in red
If you claim to have no evidence, than they both enter CS2 same speed.

Kimimaro bracken dances Jugo.

That's the issue here.

[Frost ninja]

;5092083']If you claim to have no evidence, than they both enter CS2 same speed.

Kimimaro bracken dances Jugo.

That's the issue here.

I'll pitch a term to you, I've done it a few times.

Burden of proof.

Before I have to disprove a feat, you need to prove its viability.

I can proof Jugo's CS speed pretty easily with his battles. Wheres your proof to Kimimaru's speeds? If you have none, say so now.

Don't tell me I have no proof they don't until you can prove, in some way, that they do. Otherwise your ideal of kimi's CS entry speed feats are unviable and cannot be used. Since Jugo has some proofs to his, it'd end up faster.

Now, proof me.

[[Shikamaru]]

I'll pitch a term to you, I've done it a few times.

Burden of proof.

Before I have to disprove a feat, you need to prove its viability.

I can proof Jugo's CS speed pretty easily with his battles. Wheres your proof to Kimimaru's speeds? If you have none, say so now.

Don't tell me I have no proof they don't until you can prove, in some way, that they do. Otherwise your ideal of kimi's CS entry speed feats are unviable and cannot be used. Since Jugo has some proofs to his, it'd end up faster.

Now, proof me.I don't need to prove a feat. Curse mark transformations are generally the same universal change speed.

CS2 change speed has remained the same user to user. Hence Sasuke, Jugo, Kimimaro, and the Sound 4. I've seen no deviation in both the manga and anime.

You've stated no feature for Jugo's CS2 change speed.

[Kazumi Saitama]

;5092139']I don't need to prove a feat. Curse mark transformations are generally the same universal change speed.

CS2 change speed has remained the same user to user. Hence Sasuke, Jugo, Kimimaro, and the Sound 4. I've seen no deviation in both the manga and anime.

You've stated no feature for Jugo's CS2 change speed.

Incorrect. Juugo can promptly enter CS2 with little to no prep as displayed in his fight against Raikage. Kimimaro must enter CS1 before he enters CS2, according to feats. Additionally, Juugo and Sasuke are the only Cursed Marked individuals that have displayed partial transformation. Therefore, all Curse Marks are very different.

Juugo's speed increases in CS2 and he can also use chakra boosters to further enhance his speed. Kimimaro's speed decreases in CS2 as stated by Lee.

[Frost ninja]

;5092139']I don't need to prove a feat. Curse mark transformations are generally the same universal change speed.

CS2 change speed has remained the same user to user. Hence Sasuke, Jugo, Kimimaro, and the Sound 4. I've seen no deviation in both the manga and anime.

You've stated no feature for Jugo's CS2 change speed.

461-9, One panel is basically a full CS2.
From what I've seen, usually takes 3 for each of the sound 4.

[[Shikamaru]]

Incorrect. Juugo can promptly enter CS2 with little to no prep as displayed in his fight against Raikage. Kimimaro must enter CS1 before he enters CS2, according to feats. Additionally, Juugo and Sasuke are the only Cursed Marked individuals that have displayed partial transformation. Therefore, all Curse Marks are very different.

Juugo's speed increases in CS2 and he can also use chakra boosters to further enhance his speed. Kimimaro's speed decreases in CS2 as stated by Lee.
No, you're incorrect. Have you seen the anime? He took about the same time as any other user to enter CS2, as he was overly confident to take on Raikage himself.

He clearly changed the same speed as any other user, including Sasuke. The armor coding spreads across their body over a span of a few seconds.

Kimimaro's change time is the same, foot speed in CS2 is not relevant. Bracken dance will eliminate Jugo in CS2.

No curse user has shown faster transformation speed.

[Frost ninja]

;5092183']No, you're incorrect. Have you seen the anime? He took about the same time as any other user to enter CS2, as he was overly confident to take on Raikage himself.


Anime is non-canon


He clearly changed the same speed as any other user, including Sasuke. The armor coding spreads across their body over a span of a few seconds.

He can go from partial straight into CS2. He doesnt have to go partial -> CS1 -> CS2

Kimimaro's change time is the same, foot speed in CS2 is not relevant. Bracken dance will eliminate Jugo in CS2.

Proof on Braken's speed? He had time underground to prep it. Time Jugo won't give.

No curse user has shown faster transformation speed.

Wrong.

You still have given no proof to kimi's times into transformation. I gave my proof, if its a straight constant you should be able to provide proof of your claim.

[[Shikamaru]]

You still have given no proof to kimi's times into transformation. I gave my proof, if its a straight constant you should be able to provide proof of your claim.
Panel speed?

I doubt Kishi determines transformation speed on how many panels he shows for transformation.

If you watch the anime, you'll see Kimimaro needed about the same time Jugo needed. A span of a few seconds.

When determining speed, anime is more reliant. Not a panel.

Prep? The anime doesn't suggest he required prep time to release Bracken.

[Frost ninja]

;5092207']Panel speed?

I doubt Kishi determines transformation speed on how many panels he shows for transformation.

If you watch the anime, you'll see Kimimaro needed about the same time Jugo needed. A span of a few seconds.

When determining speed, anime is more reliant. Not a panel.

Anime is non-canon. You have feats of kimi's transformation speed from the manga or not?

Panel speed is irrelevant in this case, since he was in a clean partial before the frame and went almost full in the time it took for him to say that line.

[[Shikamaru]]

Anime is non-canon. You have feats of kimi's transformation speed from the manga or not?

Panel speed is irrelevant in this case, since he was in a clean partial before the frame and went almost full in the time it took for him to say that line.
A combination of logic, manga and anime. In the case of transformation speed, the anime has shown all curse users to change at the same speed.

In the anime, by the time he was finished his line he had transformed also. However, at the same speed as the other users.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Anime is noncanon. Get out.

[[Shikamaru]]

Anime is noncanon. Get out.
No it's not. This is an anime website LOL

If you actually watch the anime, as I've stated, all the transformation speeds were about the same.

Don't butt into a debate with a spam comment of that sort. It's extremely offensive.

[Frost ninja]

;5092358']No it's not. This is an anime website LOL

If you actually watch the anime, as I've stated, all the transformation speeds were about the same.

re-read.
Anime is non-canon.
We debate with manga feats.

Regardless of the design of this site, we don't use anime for proof as its not directly made by kishimoto and thus can be altered by those who make it. Hence censorship.

Manga proof please, or you lose.

And She has a valid point that I have stated. I find your ignorance and avoidance of giving me proper proof, AND your use of non-canon articles in this debate to be offensive.

[Kazumi Saitama]

;5092358']No it's not. This is an anime website LOL

If you actually watch the anime, as I've stated, all the transformation speeds were about the same.

Don't butt into a debate with a spam comment of that sort. It's extremely offensive.

Here, in the BG, the anime is considered noncanon.

I watch the anime and the anime exaggerate times and add abilities that do not exist.

You will live. :/

[[Shikamaru]]

Here, in the BG, the anime is considered noncanon.

I watch the anime and the anime exaggerate times and add abilities that do not exist.

You will live. :/
This is an anime website, we debate anime.

There are dozens of examples where Curse users have entered CS2 around the same speed in the anime.

They exaggerated every time? No.

Panels do not determine speed, they only show the artist's interest.

[Frost ninja]

;5092402']This is an anime website, we debate anime.

There are dozens of examples where Curse users have entered CS2 around the same speed in the anime.

They exaggerated every time? No.

Panels do not determine speed, they only show the artist's interest.

And you lose.
If you want to debate anime, find some forum that does so.
Or make a topic that uses "anime feats".

Anime is non-canon and your proof is invalid.

Proper proof please.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Yeah, I am done with this kid. :/
I hand this debate over to you Frosty.

[Frost ninja]

The debate is over.
End result: Jugo goes CS2, blitzes Kimi, and lazers him into atoms.

[[Shikamaru]]

The debate is over.
End result: Jugo goes CS2, blitzes Kimi, and lazers him into atoms.
You don't determine when the debate ends.

The anime has shown similar CS2 change speed throughout the series, no matter what user.

Based on that feat, Kimimaro enters CS2 same time and Bracken dances.

@Kazumi: You just spammed again. Would be best not to talk at all.

[Frost ninja]

;5092454']You don't determine when the debate ends.

The anime has shown similar CS2 change speed throughout the series, no matter what user.

Based on that feat, Kimimaro enters CS2 same time and Bracken dances.

I do when my opponent has no viable evidence.

[[Shikamaru]]

I do when my opponent has no viable evidence.
That is the evidence.

Yours was a panel in an artist's book.

Mine was an actual real time display of dozens of CS2 change speeds, with no deviation.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5092514']That is the evidence.

Yours was a panel in an artist's book.

Mine was an actual real time display of dozens of CS2 change speeds, with no deviation.

Although i agree that judging speed from a manga panel is utterly insane, thats what we gotta do.

The anime is non canon. Case closed. `|(

[[Shikamaru]]

Although i agree that judging speed from a manga panel is utterly insane, thats what we gotta do.

The anime is non canon. Case closed. `|(
Based on whos assumption?

Debates are logical means of presenting evidence and theories that make sense.

I have a valid pattern of transformation speed, that does not change, and they have a panel reference.

Yet you agree with her?

Case opened.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5092554']Based on whos assumption?

Debates are logical means of presenting evidence and theories that make sense.

I have a valid pattern of transformation speed, that does not change, and they have a panel reference.

Yet you agree with her?


Considering the anime isn't canon material, yeah. If the OP stated that non-canon material is accepted, then it'd be a different story. It's annoying, but the rules are the rules. :/

EDIT: I mean, if a technique is used in non-canon material, then it should be invalid. But when the anime animates it, thats what the panels are depicted to be. Thats how i feel about it :O

[[Shikamaru]]

Considering the anime isn't canon material, yeah. If the OP stated that non-canon material is accepted, then it'd be a different story. It's annoying, but the rules are the rules. :/
That's nonsense.

We're allowed to interpret the character's abilities in the most logical way.

Based on both the manga and anime.

An anime is simply an estimated timed version of the manga.

[Frost ninja]

Debating is bringing in viable evidence.
Even courts don't accept certain evidence

In example, hearsay. You can hear someone claim something, but its not accepted in the court of law as applicable evidence without more backing the charge. Going off of a word isn't enough to get a conviction, nor is using anime feats going to get your proof accepted.

Anime is non-canon in this debate forum.
You can interpret the skills in any way you want, that doesn't mean your interpretation of it is accepted or correct.

[[Shikamaru]]

Debating is bringing in viable evidence.
Even courts don't accept certain evidence

In example, hearsay. You can hear someone claim something, but its not accepted in the court of law as applicable evidence without more backing the charge. Going off of a word isn't enough to get a conviction, nor is using anime feats going to get your proof accepted.

Anime is non-canon in this debate forum.
You can interpret the skills in any way you want, that doesn't mean your interpretation of it is accepted or correct.
Logically, it is accepted.

A detectable pattern is present with transformation speed in the anime.

So, in essence, I am correct.

I will not accept a panel as a speed feature. That's entirely unreliable.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5092593']That's nonsense.

We're allowed to interpret the character's abilities in the most logical way.

Based on both the manga and anime.

An anime is simply an estimated timed version of the manga.

But it's not created by Kishi, therefore invalid. :roll:

Read the battleground rules :ugeek:

[Frost ninja]

;5092674']I will not accept a panel as a speed feature. That's entirely unreliable.

I will destory this belief with one strike.

Is it always unreliable?
Can we never gauge speed off of panels?

[[Shikamaru]]

I will destory this belief with one strike.

Is it always unreliable?
Can we never gauge speed off of panels?
Yes. Panels are reliable to a certain extent.

However, when there is a pattern of speeds shown in the anime, we have to logically determine that the speed is equal per user.

[Frost ninja]

;5092710']Yes. Panels are reliable to a certain extent.

However, when there is a pattern of speeds shown in the anime, we have to logically determine that the speed is equal per user.

I didnt ask about anime, because its non-canon.
Kishi didnt make it, they could do whatever they wanted in the anime. They could make naruto FTL if the makers of the show decided they wanted to, and kishi who makes the actual story would have no say in it.

Manga panels. Are they always unreliable? Yes or no?

[[Shikamaru]]

I didnt ask about anime, because its non-canon.
Kishi didnt make it, they could do whatever they wanted in the anime. They could make naruto FTL if the makers of the show decided they wanted to, and kishi who makes the actual story would have no say in it.

Manga panels. Are they always unreliable? Yes or no?
We're not debating Kishi's intentions.

We're deciding whether or not CS2 has a universal change speed, and it does.

Give Kishi a call. Until then, the anime is the most reliable real time evidence.

[Frost ninja]

;5092757']We're not debating Kishi's intentions.

We're deciding whether or not CS2 has a universal change speed, and it does.

Give Kishi a call. Until then, the anime is the most reliable real time evidence.

Only its not made by kishi and thus non-canon and not reliable at all.

Are
Manga
Panels
Unreliable,
True or
Exaggeraed?
Explain.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5092757']We're not debating Kishi's intentions.

We're deciding whether or not CS2 has a universal change speed, and it does.

Give Kishi a call. Until then, the anime is the most reliable real time evidence.

For the last time. It does not matter at all WHAT the anime shows, unless the OP says so. Why would CS2 have a universal transform speed..? They each have different physical appearances. I highly doubt they all transform at the same time. Thats sort of like saying that babies develop at the same time, because they're all babies. Or grass grows at the same time, because they're all blades of grass. Amirite?

[Frost ninja]

For the last time. It does not matter at all WHAT the anime shows, unless the OP says so. Why would CS2 have a universal transform speed..? They each have different physical appearances. I highly doubt they all transform at the same time. Thats sort of like saying that babies develop at the same time, because they're all babies. Or grass grows at the same time, because they're all blades of grass. Amirite?

Stop making me want to rep you up so often in quick succession, it won't let me.

[[Shikamaru]]

For the last time. It does not matter at all WHAT the anime shows, unless the OP says so. Why would CS2 have a universal transform speed..? They each have different physical appearances. I highly doubt they all transform at the same time. Thats sort of like saying that babies develop at the same time, because they're all babies. Or grass grows at the same time, because they're all blades of grass. Amirite?
Because it comes from the same user, Jugo.

You're comparing curse mark to baby growth?

It has nothing to do with skill power or physical appearance.

It's the same curse, and the same power. It transforms at the same time based on the anime.

Yet you stated earlier you believe Panels to be a completely "insane" interpretation of real time speed.

[Uchiha Sora]

Stop making me want to rep you up so often in quick succession, it won't let me.

I didn't know I was that awesome. `:P


;5092869']Because it comes from the same user, Jugo.

You're comparing curse mark to baby growth?

It has nothing to do with skill power or physical appearance.

It's the same curse, and the same power. It transforms at the same time based on the anime.

If they all came from Jugo then why do they all have different appearances and powers? Same curse, and the same power, so why aren't they the same appearance/transformation? Why does Sauce have wings and long hair? And why is jugo just... plain disgusting?

And yeah, I do think it's insane.You can't tell how much time has passed in a panel. But the rules are the rules mah frienddd

[[Shikamaru]]

I didn't know I was that awesome. `:P




If they all came from Jugo then why do they all have different appearances and powers? Same curse, and the same power, so why aren't they the same appearance/transformation? Why does Sauce have wings?

And yeah, I do think it's insane.You can't tell how much time has passed in a panel.
I don't know why they don't appear the same.

But what I do know is the anime shows them to transform at the same speed.

Then you do agree that panels are unreliable.

[Frost ninja]

But are they unreliable ALL THE TIME?

Also anime is non-canon.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5092902']I don't know why they don't appear the same.

But what I do know is the anime shows them to transform at the same speed.

Then you do agree that panels are unreliable.

For the most part. What about when Sasuke went CS2 against Naruto? He first got his long hair, then RIGHT before their final clash, he grew his wings. Btw i'm looking at the anime right now, even though it doesn't matter.

But are they unreliable ALL THE TIME?

Also anime is non-canon.

Nah.

[[Shikamaru]]

But are they unreliable ALL THE TIME?

Also anime is non-canon.
This time they are.

In general, the anime is always more reliable.

Especially in this situation.

[Frost ninja]

;5092964']This time they are.

In general, the anime is always more reliable.

Especially in this situation.

But are they always is the question.

Anime is non-canon.

Anime is non-canon in this situation.

[[Shikamaru]]

But are they always is the question.

Anime is non-canon.

Anime is non-canon in this situation.
Never.

Anime is non-canon in your mind, because you're not acting logical.

The anime is right, all curse form transformations are universal.

[Frost ninja]

;5093247']Never.

Anime is non-canon in your mind, because you're not acting logical.

The anime is right, all curse form transformations are universal.

They are never unreliable? Or do you not read before you post.

That and its in the battleground rules. And, by definition, is not canon since the original artist has no say in its production or contents.

Too bad anime is non-canon.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5093247']Never.

Anime is non-canon in your mind, because you're not acting logical.

The anime is right, all curse form transformations are universal.

Okay whoa whoa whoa.

Did they STATE that the transformations take the same time? Or are you timing each transformation?

Btw canon=original material written by the author.

Anime is not original or written by the- Why am i saying this AGAIN?

[[Shikamaru]]

They are never unreliable? Or do you not read before you post.

That and its in the battleground rules. And, by definition, is not canon since the original artist has no say in its production or contents.

Too bad anime is non-canon.
Too bad this is an anime website, owned by the producers.

Too bad I think logical, when you blind out obvious evidence.

[Uchiha Sora]

;5093290']Too bad this is an anime website, owned by the producers.

Too bad I think logical, when you blind out obvious evidence.

/is going crazy

In the Battleground Rules, it states that only canon material is accepted, unless stated otherwise, which it hasn't. So. Anime should not even be a concern in this situation.

[[Shikamaru]]

/is going crazy

In the Battleground Rules, it states that only canon material is accepted, unless stated otherwise, which it hasn't. So. Anime should not even be a concern in this situation.
Rules?

I wasn't aware there were rules in debating.

The anime is an estimated real time of the manga.

Whatever you determine by the panel is your opinion, the anime is actual real time fact.

[Frost ninja]

;5093540']Rules?

I wasn't aware there were rules in debating.

The anime is an estimated real time of the manga.

Whatever you determine by the panel is your opinion, the anime is actual real time fact.


Theres rules in court, why wouldnt there be rules in debates?
Your telling me you didn't read the topic named
"New Battleground Rules"?

[[Shikamaru]]

Theres rules in court, why wouldnt there be rules in debates?
Your telling me you didn't read the topic named
"New Battleground Rules"?
I never read the rules.

This isn't a court, it's a social network where you display your views based on Naruto content.

I referenced the anime because it's a logical feat.

[Frost ninja]

;5093574']I never read the rules.

This isn't a court, it's a social network where you display your views based on Naruto content.

I referenced the anime because it's a logical feat.

Read the rules before you try to join a collection of people.
Court, social network, debates...
They are all people who follow guidelines.
Even facebook, the biggest social site, has rules to read and if you don't follow them there are consequences.

[[Shikamaru]]

Read the rules before you try to join a collection of people.
Court, social network, debates...
They are all people who follow guidelines.
Even facebook, the biggest social site, has rules to read and if you don't follow them there are consequences.
LOL what consequences. A -rep?

The fact you're wrong when it comes to another resource?

CS2 transformation speed is universal for all users, as the anime displays.

Bottom line.

Join? I was debating here before you.

[Frost ninja]

;5093660']LOL what consequences. A -rep?

The fact you're wrong when it comes to another resource?

CS2 transformation speed is universal for all users, as the anime displays.

Bottom line.

Join? I was debating here before you.

That, losing credibility, losing respect overall, just overall being a bad debater. Facebook can't do much more than a ban in extreme cases but usually you just lose all of the friends on there.

Funny, since the resource I'm wrong at isn't taken into consideration.

Anime is non-canon.

You lose. Rock Bottom.

And yet you don't know the basic rules?
I wouldnt call that debating, as what your doing now isn't much higher than empty words.

[[Shikamaru]]

That, losing credibility, losing respect overall, just overall being a bad debater. Facebook can't do much more than a ban in extreme cases but usually you just lose all of the friends on there.

Funny, since the resource I'm wrong at isn't taken into consideration.

Anime is non-canon.

You lose. Rock Bottom.

And yet you don't know the basic rules?
I wouldnt call that debating, as what your doing now isn't much higher than empty words.
There is no credibility on a website. If I type a valid feat, it's a feat. Whether or not you choose to believe it is not my problem.

I don't have friends on here, because that would make me a loser. In any case, my feats are valid.

If you feel the need not to respond, do so, I'll win a lot easier that way.

The features are not non-canon, they are logical based on the manga. Making them valid.

[Frost ninja]

;5093751']There is no credibility on a website. If I type a valid feat, it's a feat. Whether or not you choose to believe it is not my problem.

I don't have friends on here, because that would make me a loser. In any case, my feats are valid.

If you feel the need not to respond, do so, I'll win a lot easier that way.

The features are not non-canon, they are logical based on the manga. Making them valid.

It loses validity when it clashes with the rules. So no, you type a feat and it becomes invalid due to it being from an unusable and unaccepted resource. Like illegal evidence.

I don't think having friends makes you a loser... Actually, its the opposite. Read previous for validity issues.

Thats the only way you could win, is if I stayed silent. Even then, the other two would still beat you since you have no viable evidence.

If your making claims about something based on the manga, then the corresponding feat should, in turn, be in the manga. If its not, then its not based on the manga and thus is not usable.

[[Shikamaru]]

It loses validity when it clashes with the rules. So no, you type a feat and it becomes invalid due to it being from an unusable and unaccepted resource. Like illegal evidence.

I don't think having friends makes you a loser... Actually, its the opposite. Read previous for validity issues.

Thats the only way you could win, is if I stayed silent. Even then, the other two would still beat you since you have no viable evidence.

If your making claims about something based on the manga, then the corresponding feat should, in turn, be in the manga. If its not, then its not based on the manga and thus is not usable.
I used the feat. And it is valid, since it's true.

The anime is a real time estimation of the manga, since the manga cannot accurately display time.

Rules are meant to be broken, especially since an entire animated series agrees with my logic.

[Frost ninja]

;5093935']I used the feat. And it is valid, since it's true.

The anime is a real time estimation of the manga, since the manga cannot accurately display time.

Rules are meant to be broken, especially since an entire animated series agrees with my logic.

Valid to you. As the saying goes, however
"Your money is no good here"

Bring something the forum considers canon.

ALSO I just doodled up a sketch of Jugo moving FTL and kimimaro losing all of his abilities and his bones becoming paper. Since it exists, and since we are disregarding canon, obviously this is a correct feat. Am I right?

Of course not, its not acceptable evidence, now is it? Neither is your anime feats.

[[Shikamaru]]

Valid to you. As the saying goes, however
"Your money is no good here"

Bring something the forum considers canon.

ALSO I just doodled up a sketch of Jugo moving FTL and kimimaro losing all of his abilities and his bones becoming paper. Since it exists, and since we are disregarding canon, obviously this is a correct feat. Am I right?

Of course not, its not acceptable evidence, now is it? Neither is your anime feats.
That's because your drawlings are nonsense, and are based on nothing.

The anime is a logical real time display of the manga, it's based on the manga, and interpreted logically by the producers, who all thought that the manga showed CS2 change time to be the same. The anime in this instance does not stray far from the manga.

[Frost ninja]

;5094020']That's because your drawlings are nonsense, and are based on nothing.

The anime is a logical real time display of the manga, it's based on the manga, and interpreted logically by the producers, who all thought that the manga showed CS2 change time to be the same. The anime in this instance does not stray far from the manga.

They are as canon as the anime.
Btw, in red is wha makes it non-canon.

[[Shikamaru]]

They are as canon as the anime.
Btw, in red is wha makes it non-canon.
Just like me and you interpret the speed based on the panels, so did they.

I agree with them, all CS2 changes were around the same speed. Why would it be any different for someone just because they did it in one short panel?

That's absurd. Real time cannot be determined by the artists choice of panel selection.

[Frost ninja]

;5094039']Just like me and you interpret the speed based on the panels, so did they.

I agree with them, all CS2 changes were around the same speed. Why would it be any different for someone just because they did it in one short panel?

That's absurd. Real time cannot be determined by the artists choice of panel selection.

Thus, my word and drawing is canon because I inerpret it?

I'm sure, however the forum says its not canon and not viable.

I can name a time when it is, but all of this is beyond the point.


No amount of your words will change the fact that battleground rules say anime is non-canon. Manga references are needed, especially since you can actually win if you find the right ones.

[Rasengan SageX5]

The thing that makes the anime unreliable is that for some fights they add footage to make the fight more interesting and fit into the timeframe of episode. While the manga has stuff managed to an appropriate space, the episodes can cut off in places that don't corrispond with the manga chapters, making it so they have to add footage to catch back up to a valid ending spot.

[chidoriroar]

kimi would win due to extreme durability and speed as well as having wide and long range attacks and being able to produce weapons almost instantly.

jugo goes CM2 and attacks but kimi does the same and uses bone forest then attacks from a distance until jugo can no longer tank his attacks

[vermillion rage 7]

jugo is pretty durable though

[Shikamaru Nara]

What feats say that?

[king kakashi]

jugo is able use his body to block swords kimimarus bone attacks wouldn't even pierce him not to mention jugo can use his curse mark to boost his speed a lot kimi can't plus kimi hasen't shown the ability to use half his curse mark power

[Frost ninja]

What feats say that?
Well he tanked getting beaten down by KB and just stood back up.
He tanked getting his organs emploded by the Raikage when he got pinned to the wall. Tanked the elbow too.

[vermillion rage 7]

jugo is able use his body to block swords kimimarus bone attacks wouldn't even pierce him not to mention jugo can use his curse mark to boost his speed a lot kimi can't plus kimi hasen't
shown the ability to use half his curse mark power

yes he has, he used cm1 to fight gaara, that half of 2

[Frost ninja]

He used both forms.

[Rasengan SageX5]

If he didn't use both forms, what would you call that form he was in when he was within an inch of killing Garra?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Cursed Seal.

He used both forms during his fight with Gaara and Naruto.

[vermillion rage 7]

i know that

i know guys but what jugo uses to fight is a quarter of the cursemark, not a half

[RINNEMAN1]

Bracken Dance. The End.

[vermillion rage 7]

jugo could pummel through the bones as they come

[Rasengan SageX5]

Since when has Jugo showed that he could punch through steel? Kimimaro's bones are steel hard in base, in stage 2 when he uses Bracken Dance they are even harder than that, probably even hard enough to break Jugo's high durability.

[Frost ninja]

But where, or what part of kimi, do the bones come from?
He was way underground so they had time to spread and cover more area, but from what area of the body?

[Rasengan SageX5]

That much is unknown, but if Storm 1 is anything to go by, he just puts his hands on the ground and does the jutsu from there.

[vermillion rage 7]

they come from his arms

[Kazumi Saitama]

Kimimaro can extract bones from any portion of his body.

[vermillion rage 7]

not any, some parts are lethal if he uses them plus ie can't extract from his head, feet or fingers

[Kazumi Saitama]

not any, some parts are lethal if he uses them plus ie can't extract from his head, feet or fingers

When Kimimaro can remove his entire spine to form a whip, he can practically extract bones from any portion of his body. Shikotsumyaku allows Kimimaro to manipulate his osteoblast, which controls our bone tissue. Therefore, Kimimaro has precise control over his skeletal system via calcium increases or decreases. He can not only harden his bone, but also soften it. Furthermore, Teshi Sendan is an example of Kimimaro firing bones from the tips of his fingers. His Distal Phalanges to be precise.

[RINNEMAN1]

When Kimimaro can remove his entire spine to form a whip, he can practically extract bones from any portion of his body. Shikotsumyaku allows Kimimaro to manipulate his osteoblast, which controls our bone tissue. Therefore, Kimimaro has precise control over his skeletal system via calcium increases or decreases. He can not only harden his bone, but also soften it. Furthermore, Teshi Sendan is an example of Kimimaro firing bones from the tips of his fingers. His Distal Phalanges to be precise.

Digital shrapnel is the move.