Tsunade vs Hidan

[SimpleGenin]

Location: Where Asuma died.

Starting Distance: 20 Meters

State of Mind: In Character

Restriction: Summoning

No Prep

No Knowledge

[Slack 40]

no knowledge and IC heres how the fight will go

Tsunade rushes at Hidan. Tsunade is right near hidan when she readys her punch. Hidan stabs her and gets some blood. Ohhh but tsunade manages to punch him sending him flying back and breaking bones. Yes tsuande used to be horrified by blood but not anymore. If the hit Hidan used on Tsunade is a bad wound, she can use mitonic regeneration. Hidan will be a crumpled heap and by the time he can get up Tsuande will have gotten close to him and breaking all of his bones

[[Shikamaru]]

Hidan doesn't have great durability. Even though he is immortal.

A full chakra punch by Tsunade would kill Hidan with ease. She reduced a giant concrete structure to rubble with a swing.

Orochimaru was the only ninja who could tank Tsunade's punches. He's probably the only one who could tank it, aside from maybe CS2 Jugo, and Suigetsu of course.

[NBT]

;5038980']Hidan doesn't have great durability. Even though he is immortal.

A full chakra punch by Tsunade would kill Hidan with ease. She reduced a giant concrete structure to rubble with a swing.

Orochimaru was the only ninja who could tank Tsunade's punches. He's probably the only one who could tank it, aside from maybe CS2 Jugo, and Suigetsu of course.

How the *censored* do you kill an immortal?

Suckade gets owned due to being slower,and having any way to decapitate hidden,and being a complete failure.

[Vivi]

;5038980']Hidan doesn't have great durability. Even though he is immortal.

A full chakra punch by Tsunade would kill Hidan with ease. She reduced a giant concrete structure to rubble with a swing.

Orochimaru was the only ninja who could tank Tsunade's punches. He's probably the only one who could tank it, aside from maybe CS2 Jugo, and Suigetsu of course.

Great Logic.

A Chakra Punch will kill a Immortal Hidan when being blown up and beheaded couldn't.
http://www.thecitrusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/citizen_kane_clapping_gif_RE_If_The_Internet_Sudde nly_Disappeared_How_Wed_Get_Laid-s480x360-132744.gif

Tsuande will have gotten close to him and breaking all of his bones More this.
She can't kill Hidan with her Punches though breaking his Bones are the way to go here.

How the *censored* do you kill an immortal?

In terms of Naruto:
Impossible unless Hidan lacks Nutrients thus rots away.
By Force seemingly not at all.

[[Shikamaru]]

Are you joking?

Your logic is his body is stronger than a building size concrete structure. No, I'm sorry, he's made of blood, skin, bones and muscle. Not cement.

A punch from Tsunade would literally mangle his body. For those who don't understand physics, It's like stepping on an aluminum can, but bloodier.

Tsunade reacted to a CT, Hidan was blitzed by Shikamaru. In short, you're a moron, Tsunade is faster.

Tsunade a failure? LOL she healed an entire village, tanked a Kusanagi through the chest, mega raped Manta, mauled on Orochimaru with ease and has sky scraper busting punches.

And you wonder why she's the 5th hokage.

Hidan is far below her in power scaling.

[Lady Tsunade]

She picked up a giant sword around 100 times her own weight swung it around in mid air and pierced Mandas mouth before he could snap his jaw. She's faster than Hidan.

She can't kill him but she can break all his bones and stop him moving.

[Vivi]

;5039059']Are you joking?

Your logic is his body is stronger than a building size concrete structure. No, I'm sorry, he's made of blood, skin, bones and muscle. Not cement.

A punch from Tsunade would literally mangle his body. For those who don't understand physics, It's like stepping on an aluminum can, but bloodier.

Tsunade reacted to a CT, Hidan was blitzed by Shikamaru. In short, you're a moron, Tsunade is faster.

Tsunade a failure? LOL she healed an entire village, tanked a Kusanagi through the chest, mega raped Manta, mauled on Orochimaru with ease and has sky scraper busting punches.

And you wonder why she's the 5th hokage.

Hidan is far below her in power scaling.

Nope.

Never said it.

Speculation.And don't even bring a normal Human being into this.
he's made of blood, skin, bones and muscle. Not cement. A normal Human wouldn't be able to withstand Ash Cloud.
We're talking about Fiction here.Being made of all that means nothing.

When did Tsunade react to Chibaku Tensei?
Only time it was used was against Kyuubi.
And when was Hidan blitzed?
Then I rather be a Moron than an insane fool.
See I can also pretend to be all tough over the Net.

Funny how I didn't even say she was.Also irrelevant.

[Slack 40]

Tsunade doesn't need to kill Hidan just incapitate him. Tsuande also doesn't have to be much faster then Hidan, because Hidan isn't blitzing Tsuande here. IC and No knowledge means Hidan is dumb, and he won't know that close combat is a bad idea when fighting tsunade because she'll just overpower him.

Tsunade can run toward him, punch the ground to throw him off balance and then get in for a kick or punch that will shatter his bones. He's incapitated so tsunade wins the fight.

[321zigzag3]

Location: Where Asuma died.

Starting Distance: 20 Meters

State of Mind: In Character

Restriction: Summoning

No Prep

No Knowledge

Long time no see OP.

Iam sure Tsunade should win this anyway. Hidan is only an Elite Jounin although some of Tsunade shown feats are sub par.

[Uchiha Sora]

couldn't she like.... smash his head...?

[SimpleGenin]

Ey Ziggy! Im back. Since i quit one of my job im a lil more free now.

I guess thats what i was trying to learn here?
its obvious human body cant be used as an example here because this is fiction,
but with "logic" ----> Tsunade being able to crush Cement with ease, cant Tsunade, just squash Hidan's head, thus killing an immortal.. after all, he isnt very durable

[Shikamaru Nara]

Welcome back. Maybe this place will be back to life if you start making threads again. Always did do a good job on that.

Hidan should take this though.

How does Tsunade take off his head?

Maybe if she has some super weapon she could.

[321zigzag3]

Ey Ziggy! Im back. Since i quit one of my job im a lil more free now.

I guess thats what i was trying to learn here?
its obvious human body cant be used as an example here because this is fiction,
but with "logic" ----> Tsunade being able to crush Cement with ease, cant Tsunade, just squash Hidan's head, thus killing an immortal.. after all, he isnt very durable

You aren't the only one who took a lengthy break.
Ono won't come back until he gets to be moderator.

[SimpleGenin]

and for that he refuses to come back? hmph

Im guessing Tsunade wins this with Katsuyu, if Katsuyu wasnt restricted.

[321zigzag3]

and for that he refuses to come back? hmph

Im guessing Tsunade wins this with Katsuyu, if Katsuyu wasnt restricted.

Not just that its more than that.

He left in January apparently which I found out recently because I was absent for few months.

Its hard to guess On

[SauceK]

Hidan pretty much auto-wins due to the fact that Tsunade can't decapitate or incapacitate him. And I don't understand how Hidan has low durability, his body is pretty much invincible unless you remove a body part from him which I don't see Tsunade doing.

[EvL j3st3r]

I think Tsunade's battle power is way underrated by the majority of readers. I could totally see her being able to incapacitate, decapitate, or cause him physical harm just as well as anyone could. I gotta say Tsunade takes this fight for one simple reason. OP said "no knowledge". This means.......

1.As someone before said, Hidan wouldn't know that close combat with Tsunade is suicide (not literally since Hidan is immortal).

2. Tsunade wouldn't know that she can't let Hidan put a scratch on her.

I say Hidan's disadvantage is greater. Reason being is, Tsunade probably doesn't even need to know that she can't let Hidan's weapon draw even the slightest drop of blood from her. I see it that way bc Tsunade's strong point is attack evasion.

Hidan can't wound Tsunade quick enough and ends up with a mangled, beaten, broken, useless body from absorbing one Tsunade punch.

[Sagepain]

I think Tsunade's battle power is way underrated by the majority of readers. I could totally see her being able to incapacitate, decapitate, or cause him physical harm just as well as anyone could. I gotta say Tsunade takes this fight for one simple reason. OP said "no knowledge". This means.......

1.As someone before said, Hidan wouldn't know that close combat with Tsunade is suicide (not literally since Hidan is immortal).

2. Tsunade wouldn't know that she can't let Hidan put a scratch on her.

I say Hidan's disadvantage is greater. Reason being is, Tsunade probably doesn't even need to know that she can't let Hidan's weapon draw even the slightest drop of blood from her. I see it that way bc Tsunade's strong point is attack evasion.

Hidan can't wound Tsunade quick enough and ends up with a mangled, beaten, broken, useless body from absorbing one Tsunade punch.

I agree.

She doesin't even need to dodge, mitotic regeneration heals any wounds that hidan inflicts on her so Tsunade will win.

Hidan Wouldin't even bother dodging any of Tsunade's attacks thinking he can Handle one of her punches.

[EvL j3st3r]

I agree.

She doesin't even need to dodge, mitotic regeneration heals any wounds that hidan inflicts on her so Tsunade will win.

Hidan Wouldin't even bother dodging any of Tsunade's attacks thinking he can Handle one of her punches.
Yea, I had thought of the mitotic regeneration as well but I didn't include it bc she can't use it repeatedly. It may save her if she acts fast after using it but if Hidan has managed to get some of her blood and has started his ritual, he could just keep inflicting fatal wounds after she was already forced to use her regeneration. That's why I just kinda stuck with the thought that he probably couldn't wound her anyway. I mean look how hard of a time he had landing a blow on Asuma. I would assume that Tsunade is ahead of Asuma on attack evasion. :D

And you're right about Hidan. His arrogant attitude definitely wouldn't serve him well in this fight.

[NBT]

I agree.

She doesin't even need to dodge, mitotic regeneration heals any wounds that hidan inflicts on her so Tsunade will win.

Hidan Wouldin't even bother dodging any of Tsunade's attacks thinking he can Handle one of her punches.

Not if she's stabbed in the heart,throat,or head or just has her head cut off.Or he does his ritual,which she also wouldn't be able to heal from.

[Sagepain]

Not if she's stabbed in the heart,throat,or head or just has her head cut off.Or he does his ritual,which she also wouldn't be able to heal from.

Hidan is in Character, meaning he won't go directly for the kill, he's gonna toy with Tsunade first, which will be his downfall.

Besides he won't even touch her because she has amazing evasion skill's(presumably as she taught sakura how to evade)

While Hidan will dodge NOTHING, because he thinks he can take a punch from Tsunade thinking its just a simple punch when in reality its a punch that will most likely rupture major organs,break bones, and disable Hidan.

[chidoriroar]

;5038980']Hidan doesn't have great durability. Even though he is immortal.

A full chakra punch by Tsunade would kill Hidan with ease. She reduced a giant concrete structure to rubble with a swing.

Orochimaru was the only ninja who could tank Tsunade's punches. He's probably the only one who could tank it, aside from maybe CS2 Jugo, and Suigetsu of course.
hidan cant die, he would probably draw blood from tsunade before hes been completely immoblilized but tsunade wouldnt give him time to form the seal, she would crush him to dust

[Legend]

Tsunade was never shown to have a kunai, her hands won't avail to Hidan's sword despite her power. No matter how hard your punch is, it wouldn't win agains a sharp edge knife. In fact, the harder you punch a knife the more backfire-devestation occurs on your own hand.



Aditionally, Tsunade has a fear of blood(see chapter 165, page 4). That gives Hidan ample time for his ritual, or either chopping down Tsunade, then to do his ritual. Hidan wins, low-difficulty.

Tsunade is too slow to land punches horizontally(straight). If she were to do heel drop all Hidan needs to do is jump up slightly.

[Nick Tasogare]

Tsunade wins. Mitotic Regeneration basically voids anything that Hidan does to himself, that's assuming he's able to get close to her and draw blood. As a medic and a near Tai Specialist, she is a master of evasion, which means he likely won't, or have a hard time doing so. Hell, if she hits him with All Body Points Disturbance he likely wouldn't even be able to draw his seal on the ground.

[victor kaegi]

I think Tsunade is a weak hokage compared to the others. She doesn't know any genjutsu and she barely uses anything but her fists. So she is not a distant fighter which can be troublesome.:p

Hidan also has a blade so fighting tsunade should be easy for him. Also i am a new member who would enjoy having friends anyone please add me. I am a long time naruto lover.

However tsunade is very good with medical jutsu which may prove to be useful in any fights. :cool:

[Sagepain]

I think Tsunade is a weak hokage compared to the others. She doesn't know any genjutsu and she barely uses anything but her fists. So she is not a distant fighter which can be troublesome.:p

Saying she doesin't know genjutsu is invalid, Minato never used genjutsu, so can we assume he can't? no because he most likely can like tsunade.

Genjutsu isin't there specialty tho thats why they never use it.

Tsunade is Basicly Immortal in combat while her Mitotic regeneration is active.

Hidan will NOT dodge a simple punch, because he thinks its not worth dodging.

Tsunade will NOT get hit by any of hidan's attacks, she's an evasion master.

Trust me I don't really like tsunade either, but Hidan CANNOT win against her, thats almost like saying konohamaru can beat minato.......which he can't.

Hidan excels in dealing physical damage to his opponents, Tsunade excels at healing physical damage on allies or herself AND infilicting physical damage on her opponents, If she hits him ONCE he's done, while hidan would have to stab her more than 10 time's to kill her or even slow her down.

Tsunade survived multiple slash and stab wounds and survived and on top of that broke her phobia of blood and delivered a direct punch to Orochimaru.(which would be the only person who can survive that and still move)

Tsunade was never shown to have a kunai, her hands won't avail to Hidan's sword despite her power. No matter how hard your punch is, it wouldn't win agains a sharp edge knife. In fact, the harder you punch a knife the more backfire-devestation occurs on your own hand.


no need for a kunai, one punch he's done., she wouldin't aim for his weapon she'd aim for his face.

Tsunade has two hands not one, Hidan cut one hand off because she's assumed to go for his weapon while her other fist demolishes hidans face.


Aditionally, Tsunade has a fear of blood(see chapter 165, page 4). That gives Hidan ample time for his ritual, or either chopping down Tsunade, then to do his ritual. Hidan wins, low-difficulty.

Tsunade no longer has the fear of blood.

Tsunade is too slow to land punches horizontally(straight). If she were to do heel drop all Hidan needs to do is jump up slightly.

Hidan would not dodge a kick, it wouldin't seem dangerouse enough to him.
In red

In the end I think Tsunade win's because of her Mitotic regeneration and Evasion skills, and would've won even faster and easier if she had Katsuyu.

Tsunade wins. Mitotic Regeneration basically voids anything that Hidan does to himself, that's assuming he's able to get close to her and draw blood. As a medic and a near Tai Specialist, she is a master of evasion, which means he likely won't, or have a hard time doing so. Hell, if she hits him with All Body Points Disturbance he likely wouldn't even be able to draw his seal on the ground.

I agree.

[EvL j3st3r]

I agree. why does it matter wether or not she can use genjutsu? Jaraiya didn't use genjutsu either. Are you gonna tell me Hidan could beat him?

Also, why do ppl keep saying Tsunade is slow? At least give some logic that leads you to that conclusion.

[Legend]

I agree. why does it matter wether or not she can use genjutsu? Jaraiya didn't use genjutsu either. Are you gonna tell me Hidan could beat him?

Also, why do ppl keep saying Tsunade is slow? At least give some logic that leads you to that conclusion.


Surely. People don't give attestations, well I don't know why.

Tsunade is slow, usually because even when given ample time to react, she can't even evade the act. Additionally, her hits at "far close-range", are easily avoidable:

Chapter 163 p.18
Chapter 164 p.3
Chapter 164 p.10
Chapter 164 p.11
Chapter 170 p.17




To be honest, I don't think Tsunade should even be Hokage, (Chapter 164 p.15). That's sad, when blood is drawn she withdraws from the fight, and she never even reacted from Kabuto's attack nor Orochimaru's.

[EvL j3st3r]

Her fear of blood is gone. That issue was addressed in the very same battle you are referring to. Also, in that same battle, she had feats that compliment her speed. Not to mention, attack evasion is one of her strong points........which also compliments her speed.

[Legend]

Her fear of blood is gone. That issue was addressed in the very same battle you are referring to. Also, in that same battle, she had feats that compliment her speed. Not to mention, attack evasion is one of her strong points........which also compliments her speed.

Her fear of blood is gone? Where?

Also Tsunade can't "react", as you put it. In mostly all of those references I gave you, she got clocked by Kabuto, and Orochimaru. Not to mention Hidan went toe to toe w/ Kakashi in Kenjutsu. Kakashi has a sharingan, Tsunade doesn't. She can't do it. Also what good does it due even if she "blocks" it, it wouldn't be a "block", try blocking a knife, it isn't fun.

It's unreal to say that Hidan can't even hit you upclose, that's why Kakashi needed a kunai, he's not a dumbass, he knows better than to go hand to sword combat v. a noxious maniac.

Hidan is underestimated, he's the weakest in the Akatsuki, but it's true he's underrated. Tsunade can't go without a kunai, if Kakashi couldn't. Even with a kunai, she hasn't proven deftness in Kenjutsu, she loses easily.

By going weaponless she loses, no matter how hard she punches she takes a big blow back. The harder you punch his sword without a weapon, the more damage you take, rather than your opponent.

[Sagepain]

Her fear of blood is gone? Where?

Also Tsunade can't "react", as you put it. In mostly all of those references I gave you, she got clocked by Kabuto, and Orochimaru. Not to mention Hidan went toe to toe w/ Kakashi in Kenjutsu. Kakashi has a sharingan, Tsunade doesn't. She can't do it. Also what good does it due even if she "blocks" it, it wouldn't be a "block", try blocking a knife, it isn't fun.

It's unreal to say that Hidan can't even hit you upclose, that's why Kakashi needed a kunai, he's not a dumbass, he knows better than to go hand to sword combat v. a noxious maniac.

Hidan is underestimated, he's the weakest in the Akatsuki, but it's true he's underrated. Tsunade can't go without a kunai, if Kakashi couldn't. Even with a kunai, she hasn't proven deftness in Kenjutsu, she loses easily.

By going weaponless she loses, no matter how hard she punches she takes a big blow back. The harder you punch his sword without a weapon, the more damage you take, rather than your opponent.

Tsunade's fear of blood is gone in the same battle you mentioned thats where.

Who in the world punches a knife? no one.

Tsunade punches hidan's FACE not his weapon.

Tsunade is IMMORTAL in battle as long as mitotic regeneration is active.

No matter how much anyone says hidan's Immortal he can't move if his entire bone structure is demolished.

Tsunade may not be the best hokage but she was the best the leaf could get at the time.

[Legend]

Tsunade's fear of blood is gone in the same battle you mentioned thats where.

Who in the world punches a knife? no one.

Then Tsunade shouldn't be fighting Hidan.


Tsunade punches hidan's FACE not his weapon.

No she doesn't, it's common sense for Hidan to cover his face and strike back w/sword blades.


Tsunade is IMMORTAL in battle as long as mitotic regeneration is active.

Hidan can keep stabbing himself, punitively punishing Tsunade, Tsunade doesn't have enough chakra to keep up with Hidan. Hidan can keep stabbing himself, while Tsunade doesn't have enough chakra to keep using mitotic regeneration. Furthermore, she had one seal for it, she can't use it chronically.


No matter how much anyone says hidan's Immortal he can't move if his entire bone structure is demolished.

Like I said, you are forgetting Tsunade is slow(see my previous references for proof). Kabuto, Orochimaru easily dodged her slow-ass attacks. Additionally, this is no match, and isn't even moot. You need a weapon to fight Hidan, period, why do you think Kakashi used his kunai? Superior strength does not grant you imperviousness from Hidan's scythe. Simply put, if you can punch a knife and draw back your hand stop debating.


Tsunade may not be the best hokage but she was the best the leaf could get at the time.

No. I seriously doubt that. Tsunade would get beasted by Maito Gai. Maito Gai is much faster than her. People who support Tsunade always brings up the argument that she can clobber him, however, that argument is deeply flawed. You need speed feats before you actually land hits on your opponents like that. Furthermore, she would not be able to keep up with eight gates, Tsunade is an embarassment to the Senju Clan.

[Amari360]

She picked up a giant sword around 100 times her own weight swung it around in mid air and pierced Mandas mouth before he could snap his jaw. She's faster than Hidan.
Bolded: Proof.

Oh, and Manda snapping his jaw is unquantifiable. Try again.
She can't kill him but she can break all his bones and stop him moving.
Before or after she gets stomped into the ground?

[Amari360]

Hidan is in Character, meaning he won't go directly for the kill, he's gonna toy with Tsunade first, which will be his downfall.


No. It won't.
Besides he won't even touch her because she has amazing evasion skill's(presumably as she taught sakura how to evade)
Which isn't helping her in this fight, especially due to the fact that Hidan has shown he can not only wield his Scythe quite easily, he's also demonstrated impressive precision and accuracy.

Tsunade will have trouble of dodging Hidan's Scythe.

If you want any proof, let me know.
While Hidan will dodge NOTHING, because he thinks he can take a punch from Tsunade thinking its just a simple punch when in reality its a punch that will most likely rupture major organs,break bones, and disable Hidan.
Completely incorrect.

Hidan fought Asuma, while easily evading and dodging Shikamaru's Shadow Sewing Technique.

Hidan can dodge Tsunade's punches with ease.

[Wooster]

Hidan fought Asuma, while easily evading and dodging Shikamaru's Shadow Sewing Technique.

Hidan can dodge Tsunade's punches with ease.
Which itself isn't fast, only tricky.

But yeah, Tsunade is monstrously slow. Hidan probably could dodge that.

[Sagepain]

Then Tsunade shouldn't be fighting Hidan.



No she doesn't, it's common sense for Hidan to cover his face and strike back w/sword blades.

Hidan wouldin't cover his face, It's not worth it for him because he THINKS he can handle a punch, You act like Hidan is smart and cares if he gets mutilated, he doesin't



Hidan can keep stabbing himself, punitively punishing Tsunade, Tsunade doesn't have enough chakra to keep up with Hidan. Hidan can keep stabbing himself, while Tsunade doesn't have enough chakra to keep using mitotic regeneration. Furthermore, she had one seal for it, she can't use it chronically.

Tsunade can summon a boss size slug, that right there is proof she has a lot of chakra. One seal is all she'll need, she punches the ground, distracts Hidan and then goes for the Knockout.

Like I said, you are forgetting Tsunade is slow(see my previous references for proof). Kabuto, Orochimaru easily dodged her slow-ass attacks. Additionally, this is no match, and isn't even moot. You need a weapon to fight Hidan, period, why do you think Kakashi used his kunai? Superior strength does not grant you imperviousness from Hidan's scythe. Simply put, if you can punch a knife and draw back your hand stop debating.

That was when Tsunade was retired from being a ninja, she was expected to be slow.

Even then she was fast enough to Pick up gama's blade, and send it down the roof of manda's mouth before manda got to them, was Manda slow? No he wasin't.

No. I seriously doubt that. Tsunade would get beasted by Maito Gai. Maito Gai is much faster than her. People who support Tsunade always brings up the argument that she can clobber him, however, that argument is deeply flawed. You need speed feats before you actually land hits on your opponents like that. Furthermore, she would not be able to keep up with eight gates, Tsunade is an embarassment to the Senju Clan.

Maito gai can't beat pain.
Kakashi can't beat pain.
Jiraiya can't beat pain.
Tsunade can't beat pain.
and Naruto Barely beat pain.

Really if Pain used Chou Shinra tensei, kakashi,Gai, jiraiya, OR even naruto wouldin't be able to protect the villagers from that, guess what, Tsunade did.

The leaf had almost no resources left to rebuild, they had to gain enough funds, and waste less on harder mission, the leaf had to send Genins on A rank missions becuase no jonins, were left.

Maito guy can't manage village funds, Order missions, and so much more a hokage must do.

Which itself isn't fast, only tricky.

But yeah, Tsunade is monstrously slow. Hidan probably could dodge that.

I agree Hidan can probably dodge it, but would he?

Hidan is IC therfore wouldin't think a simple attack like that is worth dodging.

No. It won't.yes it will.

Which isn't helping her in this fight, especially due to the fact that Hidan has shown he can not only wield his Scythe quite easily, he's also demonstrated impressive precision and accuracy.

Tsunade will have trouble of dodging Hidan's Scythe.

If you want any proof, let me know.

Other characters dodged, Tsunade can too.

Completely incorrect.

Hidan fought Asuma, while easily evading and dodging Shikamaru's Shadow Sewing Technique.

Hidan can dodge Tsunade's punches with ease.

I agree Hidan CAN dodge her punches, the question is would he?

Hidan is IC therefore wouldin't dodge a simple punch, you seem to forget Hidan's character, He doesin't just use profanity 90% of the time, he extremely arrogant too.

[Wooster]

I agree Hidan can probably dodge it, but would he?

Hidan is IC therfore wouldin't think a simple attack like that is worth dodging.

Depends on the circumstance. He obviously would take a hit is it would mean he could cut Tsunade. Then it is over for her. All she can do is pound, and she be pounding herself.

[Sagepain]

Depends on the circumstance. He obviously would take a hit is it would mean he could cut Tsunade. Then it is over for her. All she can do is pound, and she be pounding herself.

Hidan got stabbed by Izumo and kotetsu, and only kicked them when he could have easily just stabbed them.

Tsunade with mitotic regeneration.

will she die then?

If hidan gets hit and Tsunade get cut, Then both can survive, as Tsunade has gotten multiple slash and stab wounds and still managed to move and activate mitotic regeneration, after she punched orochimaru.

Though if Hidan gets hit he's not gonna go anywhere as most of his bones and Major organs would be destroyed.

After Hidan hits, He has to create the seal in order to Inflict damage on Tsunade by hurting himself.

[Shadowterra]

if hidan did the seal one punch from Tsunade would damage both of them but send hidan flying out of the circle,so Tsunade would eventully win this one

[Sagepain]

if hidan did the seal one punch from Tsunade would damage both of them but send hidan flying out of the circle,so Tsunade would eventully win this one

that, and Hidan would never create the seal in time.

[Legend]

@Sagepain

That's great if you think Tsunade is strong, but the argument isn't even moot. Do you agree that you can't punch the tip of a knife, and expect to continue??

Also no, she didn't get rid of her fear of blood. What you're saying is similar to saying, "people get rid of their fears of confined areas, because they were already in one."

Unfortunately, that isn't true. Do claustrophobic people lose their fear, after they are in a confined area for a brief moment in time? No.

[Wooster]

Hidan got stabbed by Izumo and kotetsu, and only kicked them when he could have easily just stabbed them.

Tsunade with mitotic regeneration.

will she die then?

If hidan gets hit and Tsunade get cut, Then both can survive, as Tsunade has gotten multiple slash and stab wounds and still managed to move and activate mitotic regeneration, after she punched orochimaru.

Though if Hidan gets hit he's not gonna go anywhere as most of his bones and Major organs would be destroyed.

After Hidan hits, He has to create the seal in order to Inflict damage on Tsunade by hurting himself.
It eventually wears out. See Pain invasion.

Yeah he was to do that, but he can use his own blood. Not really a problem for him. The limited step as Shikamaru figured out is Hidan getting the other person's blood. Tsunade really has no way to stop this. She is a brusier, too slow and close combat. Horrible type to go up against Hidan.

[EvL j3st3r]

@Sagepain

That's great if you think Tsunade is strong, but the argument isn't even moot. Do you agree that you can't punch the tip of a knife, and expect to continue??Why do you keep on with this irrelevant argument? She doesn't have to punch the end of his blade. That's just a senseless argument.

Also no, she didn't get rid of her fear of blood. What you're saying is similar to saying, "people get rid of their fears of confined areas, because they were already in one."At first sight of blood she was frozen by fear. By the end of the fight she was demolishing Oro's face and paying no mind to the blood that covered him and herself. put 2 and 2 together.

Unfortunately, that isn't true. Do claustrophobic people lose their fear, after they are in a confined area for a brief moment in time? No.
The point is that she had to overcome it to get back in the fight...which she did.

[Legend]

The point is that she had to overcome it to get back in the fight...which she did.


Tsunade punches Hidan, Hidan swings his sword back, that's my argument. How are you going to impugn that by saying "it wouldn't happen", it's called retaliation. Hidan retaliates to her hit with his sword swipe. Also, doesn't matter, Tsunade was out for quite some time, even getting down for some time leaves her for a direct attack through her heart, she could then use mitotic regenration, but then it's too late, Hidan will prepare for his ritual.

[Sagepain]

Tsunade punches Hidan, Hidan swings his sword back, that's my argument. How are you going to impugn that by saying "it wouldn't happen", it's called retaliation. Hidan retaliates to her hit with his sword swipe. Also, doesn't matter, Tsunade was out for quite some time, even getting down for some time leaves her for a direct attack through her heart, she could then use mitotic regenration, but then it's too late, Hidan will prepare for his ritual.

Step 1: Tsunade uses Mitotic regeneration

Step 2: Hidan creates his seal after cutting Tsunade.

Step 3: Tsunade Cracks the ground with a simple tap to the floor

Step 4: The seal is now Incomplete therfore, useless.

Step 5 Hidan is Immobolized due to the fact that His entire bone structure is Destroyed, and His Internal organs have ruptured after Tsunade innitiates her assault upon realizing that Hidan is distracted thinking his seal will work.

@Sagepain

That's great if you think Tsunade is strong, but the argument isn't even moot. Do you agree that you can't punch the tip of a knife, and expect to continue??

Also no, she didn't get rid of her fear of blood. What you're saying is similar to saying, "people get rid of their fears of confined areas, because they were already in one."

Unfortunately, that isn't true. Do claustrophobic people lose their fear, after they are in a confined area for a brief moment in time? No.


when Tsunade punches hidan's blade which is what YOUR assuming she'd do, it can cut her entire hand off Tsunade still has another hand left that she'll punch hidan with.

Hidan WONT block or dodge a simple punch, Hidan is IC.

Hidan IC= he's an idiot that thinks he can handle a Punch that will destroy his skeletal system therefore Immobilizing him.

If Tsunade can land one hit she can release a stream of electricity into Hidan's brain and Halt his movements or at least cause Hidan's Movement to become irratic or involuntary

[Legend]

Step 1: Tsunade uses Mitotic regeneration

Step 2: Hidan creates his seal after cutting Tsunade.

Step 3: Tsunade Cracks the ground with a simple tap to the floor

Step 4: The seal is now Incomplete therfore, useless.

Step 5 Hidan is Immobolized due to the fact that His entire bone structure is Destroyed, and His Internal organs have ruptured after Tsunade innitiates her assault upon realizing that Hidan is distracted thinking his seal will work.


You forgot about the part where Tsunade falls to the ground and sobers, akin to the real scenario. Then Hidan preps and she loses. She uses mitotic regeneration after recuperating from her phobia.

[Sagepain]

You forgot about the part where Tsunade falls to the ground and sobers, akin to the real scenario. Then Hidan preps and she loses. She uses mitotic regeneration after recuperating from her phobia.

What part of no phobia do you not understand?

I refuse to debate with someone that continues to repeat the same thing over and over only because you know Tsunade would win.

[SimpleGenin]

You forgot about the part where Tsunade falls to the ground and sobers, akin to the real scenario. Then Hidan preps and she loses. She uses mitotic regeneration after recuperating from her phobia.

Get real.

Tsunade no longer have hemophobia.

[Sagepain]

Get real.

Tsunade no longer have hemophobia.

what you just said was probably ignored, given that a chapter and page wasin't enough to convince.

[SimpleGenin]

well i dont know else to do to prove Tsunade no longer have the phobia. It was said by Orochimaru? or Shizune? no sure who.

[Legend]

What part of no phobia do you not understand?

I refuse to debate with someone that continues to repeat the same thing over and over only because you know Tsunade would win.

What you're essentially is saying this.

Let's make up a hypothetical.

We have a boy, who's claustrophobic, and has been so for a substantial amount of time.

He goes in an elevator, when he leaves the elevator, his claustophobia is gone. Wow.

Don't get mad at me because you don't have proof of anything.

[SimpleGenin]

What you're essentially is saying this.

Let's make up a hypothetical.

We have a boy, who's claustrophobic, and has been so for a substantial amount of time.

He goes in an elevator, when he leaves the elevator, his claustophobia is gone. Wow.

Don't get mad at me because you don't have proof of anything.
If Tsunade still feared blood, she wouldnt have easily summoned Katsuyu in the Pain Invasion. If she still did, Kishi would have emphasized that. Manga logic.

[Nick Tasogare]

Wait, wait, wait. Can we go back to where it was said Tsunade doesn't have enough Chakra to continue to heal against Hidan with Mitotic Regeneration?

Firstly, the seal stores her natural Chakra over long periods of time, like a vacuum, and compresses it. Furthermore, she healed an entire village, and not just once, that Chakra continued to pour out into the village. If that's not proof of a large Chakra reserve, I don't know what it.

Furthermore, she's not 'monstrously slow'. Sakura's speed could be proof of that, seeing as she developed her speed and reflexes by constantly dodging Tsunade's onslaught of attacks. Not only that, but she is said to be a master of evasion, which requires speed and reflex. If people can say that Tenten must have 100/100 accuracy because Neji or Guy said so, people saying Tsunade is incredibly skilled with evasive maneuvers should suffice.

Um, Legend, you don't know what you're talking about lmao It's a known fact that she overcame her fear of blood. Like, not only did we witness it, people were going 'zomg she's over her fear huzzah'.

[Legend]

Wait, wait, wait. Can we go back to where it was said Tsunade doesn't have enough Chakra to continue to heal against Hidan with Mitotic Regeneration?

Firstly, the seal stores her natural Chakra over long periods of time, like a vacuum, and compresses it. Furthermore, she healed an entire village, and not just once, that Chakra continued to pour out into the village. If that's not proof of a large Chakra reserve, I don't know what it.

Furthermore, she's not 'monstrously slow'. Sakura's speed could be proof of that, seeing as she developed her speed and reflexes by constantly dodging Tsunade's onslaught of attacks. Not only that, but she is said to be a master of evasion, which requires speed and reflex. If people can say that Tenten must have 100/100 accuracy because Neji or Guy said so, people saying Tsunade is incredibly skilled with evasive maneuvers should suffice.

Um, Legend, you don't know what you're talking about lmao It's a known fact that she overcame her fear of blood. Like, not only did we witness it, people were going 'zomg she's over her fear huzzah'.

First off she didn't get rid of her fear of blood, read my response to "SimpleGenin" below.

She doesn't have speed feats nor reactive feats at all. I'll repost for proof. Before I do, Sakura dodging her attacks has nothing to do with her superiority in speed, great she can dodge a slow person.

I agree. why does it matter wether or not she can use genjutsu? Jaraiya didn't use genjutsu either. Are you gonna tell me Hidan could beat him?

Also, why do ppl keep saying Tsunade is slow? At least give some logic that leads you to that conclusion.


Surely. People don't give attestations, well I don't know why.

Tsunade is slow, usually because even when given ample time to react, she can't even evade the act. Additionally, her hits at "far close-range", are easily avoidable:

Chapter 163 p.18
Chapter 164 p.3
Chapter 164 p.10
Chapter 164 p.11
Chapter 170 p.17




To be honest, I don't think Tsunade should even be Hokage, (Chapter 164 p.15). That's sad, when blood is drawn she withdraws from the fight, and she never even reacted from Kabuto's attack nor Orochimaru's.


If Tsunade still feared blood, she wouldnt have easily summoned Katsuyu in the Pain Invasion. If she still did, Kishi would have emphasized that. Manga logic.

Let's put it this way. Just because you kill a spider, doesn't mean you lost fear of them.

[Nick Tasogare]

First off she didn't get rid of her fear of blood, read my response to "SimpleGenin" below.

She doesn't have speed feats nor reactive feats at all. I'll repost for proof. Before I do, Sakura dodging her attacks has nothing to do with her superiority in speed, great she can dodge a slow person.

I'd rather not, since I know it's a load of nothing. We saw, read, watched her overcome the phobia.

Nah, because Sasori was incredibly slow too. Hell, turtles are mach 5 compared to him.

[Lady Tsunade]

Hidan throws strikes, to which Tsunade can dodge for a while, eventually Hidan lands a strike, he tries to make his ritual. Tsunade smashes it. If while he tries to use his ritual Tsunade doesn't break all his bones with a quick strike because he manages to dodge. Then he the same situation occurs over and over, given Tsunade could react to very fast attacks from Orochimaru and interupt Manda, chances are she can land at least one hit on Hidan, which is all she needs really. Hidan can probably land a few hits on her if he repeatedly went close range and slashed at her, but a few cuts or slashes isn't going to do crap to someone who can tank blade piercings to the chest and slashes along their ribs.

Tsunade lands a hit eventually, and crushes Hidans bones and leaves him immobile.

[Legend]

I'd rather not, since I know it's a load of nothing. We saw, read, watched her overcome the phobia.

Nah, because Sasori was incredibly slow too. Hell, turtles are mach 5 compared to him.

That doesn't prove her loss of phobia. Like I said before, which is yet to be refuted; just because you kill a spider, doesn't mean you lost fear of it.

[assassin]

tsunade...
she would break hidan like a twig...Hidan may be immortal but his bones can be broken, in which case Hidan wouldn't be able to move and Tsunade could bury him alive with a shovel.

[Sagepain]

That doesn't prove her loss of phobia. Like I said before, which is yet to be refuted; just because you kill a spider, doesn't mean you lost fear of it.

If someone had a fear of spiders, they would possibly kill the spider in fear.

Tsunade showed no fear with Blood dripping from her body while she Activated Mitotic regen and summoned.

No fear of blood anymore.

If she Broke her fear In the middle of Orochimaru attacking her, then she'll break her fear in the middle of hidan attacking her.

Hidan will NOT go for the kill unless he killed them with his Cursed jutsu death possesion blood jutsu.

Tsunade breaks her fear, while Hidan is creating the seal, She punches the ground and hidan's seal is broken, while he's praparing to create another seal, Tsunade activates Mitotic regen and punches the ground again, therefore causing hidans half finished seal to be broken before he could complete it.

While he goes for another one, Tsunade casually smashes the ground everytime hidan is in the middle of creating his seal therefore nullifying his Cursed jutsu death possesion blood.

You don't seem to understand that hidan is IC, therefore will ALWAYS go for the seal, and will NEVER dodge or block what he thinks is a simple punch.

[Legend]

If someone had a fear of spiders, they would possibly kill the spider in fear.

Tsunade showed no fear with Blood dripping from her body while she Activated Mitotic regen and summoned.

No fear of blood anymore.

If she Broke her fear In the middle of Orochimaru attacking her, then she'll break her fear in the middle of hidan attacking her.

Hidan will NOT go for the kill unless he killed them with his Cursed jutsu death possesion blood jutsu.

Tsunade breaks her fear, while Hidan is creating the seal, She punches the ground and hidan's seal is broken, while he's praparing to create another seal, Tsunade activates Mitotic regen and punches the ground again, therefore causing hidans half finished seal to be broken before he could complete it.

While he goes for another one, Tsunade casually smashes the ground everytime hidan is in the middle of creating his seal therefore nullifying his Cursed jutsu death possesion blood.

You don't seem to understand that hidan is IC, therefore will ALWAYS go for the seal, and will NEVER dodge or block what he thinks is a simple punch.


You kill the spider out of fear. That makes since, but this is different, you can't do that with blood. I'm predicting Tsunade would react the same way, just because you do something antithetical to your phobia doesn't vindicate your resolution to it. Whatever, there's no proof she lost fear of blood, claustrophobia no matter can stay for long periods of time.

Anyways, because she has a fear, she'd get hacked.

[Lady Tsunade]

You haven't read the manga if you think she still has a blood phobia.

Sannin Fight:

She is stabbed several times, blood is thrown all over her. She quivers and can't move. She suddenly stops quivering, jumps up and punches Orochimaru in the face, she uses her own blood to summon Katsuyu and then fights and beats Orochimaru. Not to mention stabbing Manda through the nose with a giant sword, he bleeds as result. She then heals Naruto, who is bleeding. Part II, CST hits Konoha, she summons Katsuyu again with her own blood. Practically everyone else in Konoha is bleeding. Hell, she has blood all over her body again and doesn't give a crap, she goes down to confront Pein to yell at him.

Obviously she doesn't have a blood phobia Torture.

Tsunades top speed exceeds Hidans imo. She lifted a sword many many times her own weight, swung it around in mid air and threw it into Mandas jaw, before Manda could snap his mouth. Now do me a favour and snap your mouth. See how quick it is? Bare in mind lifting something that heavy would've slowed her down significantly also. As for reaction speed, Tsunade reacted to attacks from Orochimaru which were undoubtably very fast. Hidan kept up with Kakashi for a while, though Kakashi wasn't moving at his top speeds. He kept up with Asuma, and showed great speed jumping around and such. So I'm sure he maybe land a few hits on Tsunade, not enough to kill her or have any significant impact on her physical performance - but a few hits none the less. Ritual is useless for reasons already given.

[Lady Tsunade]

LT Sup Hun.

Why are you brining in summons to this battle, the restrtions state NO KAT!

Hidan only needs one, to set up hjis ritual.

As seen, trough the fight with asuma, Hidan makes his circle fairly quickly, and in enough time. Not to metion the fact tsuande gets tired after a while. If Hidan kepy up with Asuma, who keeps up with Kakashi who kept up with pain, and then Tsuande didn't get a lick off pain. Then hidan takes this is speed and reactions.

However, Hidan is immortal, and tusande hasn't shown enough power to a humoid hit to damage organs. [ YES I KNOW THE LADY CAN PUNCH HOLES IN STONE]. And If she goes like a dummy to the face, Hidan stabs the stomach reducing the moving capabilty.

Sssshup

Because he's arguing that she still has a blood phobia. By using blood to summon Katsuyu, that obviously isn't the case. Not saying she needs Katsuyu to win here. It'd be a stomp if she had Katsuyu.

Yep. And Tsunade needs one foot stomp to stop his ritual from working.

Not quick enough that Tsunade can't just stomp the ground and stop it working. No, that logic is flawed. For example - Pre Sasuke kept up with Orochimaru, who kept up with Kyuubi Naruto, who kept up with Pein, that doesn't make Pre Sasuke the speed of Pein :| Hidan kept up with Kakashi, but Kakashi wasn't moving at his top speeds, or anywhere near it. He also kept up with Asuma. Hidan is fast but he's not anywhere near Kakashis overall speed. Hidan can land a few hits maybe but he can't kill her, since his ritual can be stopped. Chances of Tsunade landing at least one hit, given that Team 10 were able to, is likely. And thats all she needs. But for Hidan to kill her without a ritual, it would take a long time.

What do you mean hasn't shown enough power? If she can make giant holes in the ground like you said then why on earth couldn't she crush your organs with a punch :| She can lift things as heavy as Gamabuntas giant sword effortlessly, of course her strength is huge. I don't need to see her crush someone organs with a punch to know she can do it, because she has shown strength which proves she could do so. And as for removing her mobility, she got stabbed in the chest and slashed across the ribs with a sword, didn't stop her mobility much when it really came down to it.

[Legend]

You haven't read the manga if you think she still has a blood phobia.

Sannin Fight:

She is stabbed several times, blood is thrown all over her. She quivers and can't move. She suddenly stops quivering, jumps up and punches Orochimaru in the face, she uses her own blood to summon Katsuyu and then fights and beats Orochimaru. Not to mention stabbing Manda through the nose with a giant sword, he bleeds as result. She then heals Naruto, who is bleeding. Part II, CST hits Konoha, she summons Katsuyu again with her own blood. Practically everyone else in Konoha is bleeding. Hell, she has blood all over her body again and doesn't give a crap, she goes down to confront Pein to yell at him.



Tsunades top speed exceeds Hidans imo. She lifted a sword many many times her own weight, swung it around in mid air and threw it into Mandas jaw, before Manda could snap his mouth. Now do me a favour and snap your mouth. See how quick it is? Bare in mind lifting something that heavy would've slowed her down significantly also. As for reaction speed, Tsunade reacted to attacks from Orochimaru which were undoubtably very fast. Hidan kept up with Kakashi for a while, though Kakashi wasn't moving at his top speeds. He kept up with Asuma, and showed great speed jumping around and such. So I'm sure he maybe land a few hits on Tsunade, not enough to kill her or have any significant impact on her physical performance - but a few hits none the less. Ritual is useless for reasons already given.


It doesn't matter, both Kabuto and Orochimaru already proved they can dodge Tsunade's attacks. They were never impressed with her speed, atleast in other matches(e.g. Bee, Raikage) they are acclaimed for their speed, Tsunade's attacks were dodged a number of times, Hidan is no different, especially since he didn't get bopped by Kakashi, who by the way has the advantage due to his Sharingan.

Tsunade was dodged a number of times, that's inescapable because it is a feat. Also her lifting objects up, has nothing to do with foot speed. Also, Hidan still went toe-to-toe with Kakashi, who has the sharingan. If he can fight Kakashi without much trouble, I definitely know he'll be able to match Tsunade's attack with his scythe.

[Lady Tsunade]

It doesn't matter, both Kabuto and Orochimaru already proved they can dodge Tsunade's attacks. They were never impressed with her speed, atleast in other matches(e.g. Bee, Raikage) they are acclaimed for their speed, Tsunade's attacks were dodged a number of times, Hidan is no different, especially since he didn't get bopped by Kakashi, who by the way has the advantage due to his Sharingan.

Tsunade was dodged a number of times, that's inescapable because it is a feat. Also her lifting objects up, has nothing to do with foot speed. Also, Hidan still went toe-to-toe with Kakashi, who has the sharingan. If he can fight Kakashi without much trouble, I definitely know he'll be able to match Tsunade's attack with his scythe.

Orochimaru, who was significantly faster than Kabuto - did not dodge one attack from Tsunade. Kabuto dodged attacks from Tsunade, in the same way she dodged attacks from him. But this is irrelevant, Tsunade moves at a speed far greater than the speed she used against Kabuto soon after - this should be seen as her top speed she can move at, whenever she pushes herself enough. In the same way if you try harder in a race, you make yourself go faster. Yes, Hidan can dodge attacks from Tsunade but when it really comes down to it, if she moves at that top speed, chances are she can land one hit. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, and he is nowhere near the speed of Kakashi. Keeping up with him for a while is great, but it doesn't put him on the same level of speed at Kakashi, or anywhere near it.

Yep. She was dodged when she moved at a regular speed which does not equal that of her top speeds. You miss the point entirely, who cares if it wasn't foot speed, she lifted and manoeuvred a sword Many, many times her own weight in mid air and stabbed someone through the mouth with it before they could snap their mouth shut. If that's not immense speed then I don't know what is. Hidan admits he isn't particulary fast - being the slowest member of the Akatsuki, yet can manoeuvre a heavy sythe around quickly. In the same way that Tsunade says speed was never really her thing, but still manages to lift a giant sword around in mid air and manoeuvre it so quickly. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, thus he does not equal Kakashis overall speed or in fact anywhere near it. It accounts for something, and generally - in terms of moving about and throwing attacks Hidan is faster. But when Tsunade is pushed to the limit her speed can excel, and be even better than Hidans usual speeds.

[Sagepain]

Orochimaru, who was significantly faster than Kabuto - did not dodge one attack from Tsunade. Kabuto dodged attacks from Tsunade, in the same way she dodged attacks from him. But this is irrelevant, Tsunade moves at a speed far greater than the speed she used against Kabuto soon after - this should be seen as her top speed she can move at, whenever she pushes herself enough. In the same way if you try harder in a race, you make yourself go faster. Yes, Hidan can dodge attacks from Tsunade but when it really comes down to it, if she moves at that top speed, chances are she can land one hit. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, and he is nowhere near the speed of Kakashi. Keeping up with him for a while is great, but it doesn't put him on the same level of speed at Kakashi, or anywhere near it.

Yep. She was dodged when she moved at a regular speed which does not equal that of her top speeds. You miss the point entirely, who cares if it wasn't foot speed, she lifted and manoeuvred a sword Many, many times her own weight in mid air and stabbed someone through the mouth with it before they could snap their mouth shut. If that's not immense speed then I don't know what is. Hidan admits he isn't particulary fast - being the slowest member of the Akatsuki, yet can manoeuvre a heavy sythe around quickly. In the same way that Tsunade says speed was never really her thing, but still manages to lift a giant sword around in mid air and manoeuvre it so quickly. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, thus he does not equal Kakashis overall speed or in fact anywhere near it. It accounts for something, and generally - in terms of moving about and throwing attacks Hidan is faster. But when Tsunade is pushed to the limit her speed can excel, and be even better than Hidans usual speeds.

^ this and the fact that Hidan wouldin't dodge a simple punch.

Hidan never dodged stabbing attacks, nor did he dodge Ranged ninjutsu.

Why would Hidan dodge what he thinks is a simple punch?

[Legend]

Orochimaru, who was significantly faster than Kabuto - did not dodge one attack from Tsunade. Kabuto dodged attacks from Tsunade, in the same way she dodged attacks from him. But this is irrelevant, Tsunade moves at a speed far greater than the speed she used against Kabuto soon after - this should be seen as her top speed she can move at, whenever she pushes herself enough. In the same way if you try harder in a race, you make yourself go faster. Yes, Hidan can dodge attacks from Tsunade but when it really comes down to it, if she moves at that top speed, chances are she can land one hit. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, and he is nowhere near the speed of Kakashi. Keeping up with him for a while is great, but it doesn't put him on the same level of speed at Kakashi, or anywhere near it.

Yep. She was dodged when she moved at a regular speed which does not equal that of her top speeds. You miss the point entirely, who cares if it wasn't foot speed, she lifted and manoeuvred a sword Many, many times her own weight in mid air and stabbed someone through the mouth with it before they could snap their mouth shut. If that's not immense speed then I don't know what is. Hidan admits he isn't particulary fast - being the slowest member of the Akatsuki, yet can manoeuvre a heavy sythe around quickly. In the same way that Tsunade says speed was never really her thing, but still manages to lift a giant sword around in mid air and manoeuvre it so quickly. Again, Kakashi was not moving at his top speed, thus he does not equal Kakashis overall speed or in fact anywhere near it. It accounts for something, and generally - in terms of moving about and throwing attacks Hidan is faster. But when Tsunade is pushed to the limit her speed can excel, and be even better than Hidans usual speeds.


Foot speed matters, because she actually has to run to her opponent and jaw them, which she failed to do two times in a row. Kabuto got hit, because he was fixing his glasses, furthermore he admitted that he wasn't a Taijutsu fit.

References:

Chapter 163 p. 18
Chapter 164 p.3
Chapter 164 p.6


Also, Hidan can easily do what Kabuto did here, (Chapter 164 p. 9) but instead of tapping her, which is what Kabuto did, he would slice and dice her, thus incapacitating her.

(Chapter 164 p. 11), Here she's on the ground and let Kabuto run and tap her again.

At most you have one or two substantial speed attestations of Tsunade. Yea, the one you are talking about is where Kabuto admitted he was acting careless, and when Kabuto was fixing his glasses, not paying attention, (Chapter 164 p. 12)(Chapter 164 p. 13).

Hidan still fought Kakashi, who has the Sharingan, Tsunade is no match, end of story.

^ this and the fact that Hidan wouldin't dodge a simple punch.

Hidan never dodged stabbing attacks, nor did he dodge Ranged ninjutsu.

Why would Hidan dodge what he thinks is a simple punch?

Re-read Hidan v. Kakashi.

[Lady Tsunade]

Foot speed matters, because she actually has to run to her opponent and jaw them, which she failed to do two times in a row. Kabuto got hit, because he was fixing his glasses, furthermore he admitted that he wasn't a Taijutsu fit.

References:

Chapter 163 p. 18
Chapter 164 p.3
Chapter 164 p.6


Also, Hidan can easily do what Kabuto did here, (Chapter 164 p. 9) but instead of tapping her, which is what Kabuto did, he would slice and dice her, thus incapacitating her.

(Chapter 164 p. 11), Here she's on the ground and let Kabuto run and tap her again.

At most you have one or two substantial speed attestations of Tsunade. Yea, the one you are talking about is where Kabuto admitted he was acting careless, and when Kabuto was fixing his glasses, not paying attention, (Chapter 164 p. 12)(Chapter 164 p. 13).

Hidan still fought Kakashi, who has the Sharingan, Tsunade is no match, end of story.



Re-read Hidan v. Kakashi.

And I'd imagine that if she can perform previously said actions so quickly, then she could easily cover large distances by foot. In single jumps she can travel a good 40 metres, and in sick conditions too. [Pein Arc] And btw, she hit him again while his reflexes were scrambled. He hit her while her muscles were torn. Neither one hit the other fairly. Kabuto was lucky he was using a jutsu which requires a mere tap to the leg and arm to work, otherwise when Tsunade tried to tackle him as he came at her from behind, he would've been gravely injured. So that was to do with his jutsu, not to do with his speed.

Stop linking me to fights with Kabuto :

Yep. She was dodged by Kabuto when she moved at a regular speed which does not equal that of her top speeds.

Great, Kabuto managed to keep up with her when she moved about regularly. Go look at the speed feats I have mentioned, stop blatantly ignoring them- they're faster than anything Kabuto did by a long shot.

When Kabuto hit her while she was on the ground the muscles in her legs arm arm were destroyed by him prior, what did you expect her to do?

Yes. Two, three even - where she moves extremely fast. Obviously, this makes these her top speeds. And when she's pushed to the limit, she will move at such speeds. If she can't keep up with Hidan with the speed that she showed in her fight with Kabuto, then obviously she will use such speed feats, that I have provided, several times.

What? I'm talking of no such feat. Because that's irrelevant, since we've clarified if Rusty Tsunade moved at those speeds she would get hit. [Note she's not rusty in this match]. I'm talking of feats on chapter 170 pages 17-18. And then Chapter 430 page 10-15. [notes there's no more than a second or so gap]

Usain Bolt could move at the speed of friggin Michael Jackson, and I could keep up with him. Just because he kept up with Kakashi, it doesn't mean Kakashi was moving at his top speeds; like jumping in front of an attack from Sasuke to protect Sakura, or sneaking up behind Madara Uchiha without him noticing, those are some of Kakashis fantastic feats.

You have not disproved any of the strong speed feats for Tsunade I have provided, thus I assume you have no objections to her moving at such speeds, at least when it comes to the interruption of Manda. If thats the case, then this need not be debated further. Travelling at those intense speeds Tsunade can land at least one hit, enough to immobilise Hidan, who needs many to kill Tsunade.

[Legend]

And I'd imagine that if she can perform previously said actions so quickly, then she could easily cover large distances by foot. In single jumps she can travel a good 40 metres, and in sick conditions too. [Pein Arc] And btw, she hit him again while his reflexes were scrambled. He hit her while her muscles were torn. Neither one hit the other fairly. Kabuto was lucky he was using a jutsu which requires a mere tap to the leg and arm to work, otherwise when Tsunade tried to tackle him as he came at her from behind, he would've been gravely injured. So that was to do with his jutsu, not to do with his speed.

Stop linking me to fights with Kabuto :

First off, it doesn't make a difference whether he punches or taps. If he taps, it actually does less damage. Anyways, any ninja can jump long distances, they're ninja for christ sake. Well, anyway her jumping power is absolutely irrelevant. You would puport she jumps, but then again who cares, she did the same thing here, (Chapter 163 p.18). Oh, by the way I'm linking, because I do it out of benevolence and respect for other users, and to prevent confusion. Her jumping power is irrelevant, all we care about is whether she can land a punch, on a vigilant blood-hungry person wich she can't even do.



Great, Kabuto managed to keep up with her when she moved about regularly. Go look at the speed feats I have mentioned, stop blatantly ignoring them- they're faster than anything Kabuto did by a long shot.

When Kabuto hit her while she was on the ground the muscles in her legs arm arm were destroyed by him prior, what did you expect her to do?[

Yes. Two, three even - where she moves extremely fast. Obviously, this makes these her top speeds. And when she's pushed to the limit, she will move at such speeds. If she can't keep up with Hidan with the speed that she showed in her fight with Kabuto, then obviously she will use such speed feats, that I have provided, several times.

There are two problems I have with that. No one is "ignoring" those speed feats, if anything you're ignoring mine. You re-promulgated Tsunade jumping, that was already debunked in my previous reference listings. Also, you mentioned her muscles were marred, well that has nothing to do with anything. Her nervous system was never marred, if anyone's nervous system was re-wired it was Kabuto's(true). I called your speed feats, inconsequential, because they're unadducible. I'll even pull up references of when she did hit someone, which of some were totally mis-interpreted by you.

(Chapter 164 p. 10)-Kabuto got bopped by Tsunade to the ground. Kabuto already admittted he was poor in Taijutsu, so it isn't even laudable. Good for her, she bopped someone who's poor in Taijutsu. Hidan is spectacular in Kenjutsu, Tsunade can't fight fist v. sword, that's fundamentally illogical.

(Chapter 164 p.12) Tsunade runs by Kabuto and taps him along the neck. For starters, Kabuto was fixing his glasses, having not fixed his glasses, he could easily done what he did before, simply dodge that slow attack.

(Chapter 164 p.14) This is a follow-up, of what happened when Kabuto got hit with that first attack. But obviously, he could block this attack, having not been hit by Tsunade the first time. And, again he was only hit, because he was fixing his glasses(not acting seriously, and not paying attention, had a blind eye).

(Chapter 169 p.14) I'll give you this feat, however it's inconsistent. Furthermore, she punched Orochimaru, and he only had "scratches".

(Chapter 170 p.15) This is devoid substantiveness. She hit him from behind, good for her and sneak attacking.

Also, give me a reference of what you are talking about(Tsunade v. Pain).

(Chapter 170 p.17)?

This isn't even a speed feat. It's a mere Taijutsu battle. This helps me, she never even reacted to Orochimaru's flying tongue. This is more reason why Tsunade loses.

I'm going to help you out, and extract a passage from NF, where we talked about how slow Tsunade is. They don't call her a slug for nothing.

"In contrast, Tsunade's opponent was stopped by a base Naruto(Chapter 166 p.18-19) , who had a broken leg at the time from Orochimaru and Kabuto's snake summon. Kimimaro is probably the most elegant taijutsu user in the manga, and his feats far surpass anything Tsunade has shown in her performance against Kabuto."-Strategos

As a last request, please stop with the "extreme fast argument." We are mainly grading Tsunade on most of her feats, and in Taijutsu battle. She's not holding back, as she's fighting for her life. Obviously Ninja don't purposely hit slower.

[Sagepain]

Kabuto was using soldier pills was he not? Tsunade can hit him when he's supposed to be Much faster, While having her muscles torn thats a speed feat right there.

Hidan will NOT dodge a simple punch, People seem to forget how arrogantly stupid hidan is.
Hidan doesin't know that Tsunade's punch is Dangerous, he has never dodged fists and hasin't shown reaction feats to even dodge what was supposed to be a simple punch. Chapter 335 Page 17.

Tsunade only needs to activate Mitotic regen, run after him and punch, or let hidan go after her and punch.

Hidan MUST kill with his seal, He's IC not blood lusted therefore wont do what ever means necessary to win.
Hidans Blade wasin't made for killing, it doesin't have the ability to cause Major damage especially against a person that is an evasionary master, and can heal whatever wounds his blade could do.

Hidan's seal is useless, Tsunade stomps the floor and the seal is gone.

Hidan could have killed shikamaru if he had just sliced his neck with his blade But he didin't.
Hidan is to predictable, He will ALWAYS go for the seal.

[SimpleGenin]

First of All, Legend, Nice Job Debating. You bring up a good point.

To take in mind ^ yes Kabuto did use a pill to boost his overall performance. If I remember correctly, Kiba took a similar pill and it was like a steriod x10.

How far will Mitonic Reg. protect Tsunade? ( Pierced Heart, Brain )

Hidan does take hits alot because of his immortallity. What if Tsunade landed a Nerve Scrambing attack?

[Sagepain]

First of All, Legend, Nice Job Debating. You bring up a good point.
I agree he does.

To take in mind ^ yes Kabuto did use a pill to boost his overall performance. If I remember correctly, Kiba took a similar pill and it was like a steriod x10.
and Tsunade was the complete opposite, (old and rusty)

How far will Mitonic Reg. protect Tsunade? ( Pierced Heart, Brain )

Multiple stabs and slashes to her chest all gone after using Mitotic regen.
Hidan won't go for her heart or brain unless he's in his seal.
Tsunade's not a sitting duck she wouldin't let Hidan aim for her head or heart, she's a master medic she knows where her vital organs are and probably dodges and makes sure there safe from harm

Hidan does take hits alot because of his immortallity. What if Tsunade landed a Nerve Scrambing attack?

If she landed one of those he's done for.

Hidan can't move if his skeletal structure is demolished.

In red

[Legend]

Kabuto was using soldier pills was he not? Tsunade can hit him when he's supposed to be Much faster, While having her muscles torn thats a speed feat right there.

Hidan will NOT dodge a simple punch, People seem to forget how arrogantly stupid hidan is.
Hidan doesin't know that Tsunade's punch is Dangerous, he has never dodged fists and hasin't shown reaction feats to even dodge what was supposed to be a simple punch. Chapter 335 Page 17.

Tsunade only needs to activate Mitotic regen, run after him and punch, or let hidan go after her and punch.

Hidan MUST kill with his seal, He's IC not blood lusted therefore wont do what ever means necessary to win.
Hidans Blade wasin't made for killing, it doesin't have the ability to cause Major damage especially against a person that is an evasionary master, and can heal whatever wounds his blade could do.

Hidan's seal is useless, Tsunade stomps the floor and the seal is gone.

Hidan could have killed shikamaru if he had just sliced his neck with his blade But he didin't.
Hidan is to predictable, He will ALWAYS go for the seal.

Main rebuttals to your argument:

A.Kabuto admits not cutting deep enough into Tsunade's muscles(Chapter 164 p.13). He admits average ninja wouldn't be able to move, however Tsunade is naturally strong, inherent from the Senju Clan.

B.All hits prior to Kabuto's Chakura Scalpal, and subsequent to Mitotic Regeneration, is sitll a heavily valid argument(few hits on Tsunade during this window)

C.As the quote said, Naruto with a broken leg, atleast blocked Kabuto's attack, which by the way Tsunade fails to do, even before her muscle severing.

D.Kabuto(not adept in Taijutsu nor Ninjutsu) had a better hitting average than Tsunade.

E.Hidan can still dodge her attack. That's how you explain, how he got out of Shikamaru's Kagemane no Jutsu. I dare you say Tsunade can escape Kagemane no jutsu, in the same predicament Hidan was in. Nevertheless, you don't realize a sword always wins in battle against a fist. Furthermore, because Hidan is faster he can simply dodge her fists like it's nothing, then hack at her.





Tsunade still missed two attacks in a row. This was before getting her muscles torn. You've seriously mistaken if you think getting her muscles torn justifies that she still gets hit two more times in a row.
Regardless, she re-healed herself, and restored her muscles. Furthermore, soldier pill has nothing to do with speed, that was never predicated.







In red


Thank you. You too, I like the muscles argument

First of All, Legend, Nice Job Debating. You bring up a good point.

To take in mind ^ yes Kabuto did use a pill to boost his overall performance. If I remember correctly, Kiba took a similar pill and it was like a steriod x10.

How far will Mitonic Reg. protect Tsunade? ( Pierced Heart, Brain )

Hidan does take hits alot because of his immortallity. What if Tsunade landed a Nerve Scrambing attack?


Thanks. Soldier pill was only reputed to increase a ninja's strength, not speed. If hidan got hit with that, he would lose. But, Kabuto only got hit, because he was fixing his glasses.

[Wooster]

People aren't reading the OP. It says no prep, no knowledge. Tsunade wouldn't know she needs to destroy the seal. There is no way she is smarter than Asuma(he plays Go for Pete's sake). She will think Hidan standing around is an opportunity, and thus, kill herself. Furthermore, Hidan can just shove a spear through his own arm before Tsuande can react. She doesn't punch that fast.

[Sagepain]

People aren't reading the OP. It says no prep, no knowledge. Tsunade wouldn't know she needs to destroy the seal. There is no way she is smarter than Asuma(he plays Go for Pete's sake). She will think Hidan standing around is an opportunity, and thus, kill herself. Furthermore, Hidan can just shove a spear through his own arm before Tsuande can react. She doesn't punch that fast.

You forgot that Hidan doesin't start in his cursed mode, If hidan gets close enough to hit Tsunade that means Tsunade is close enough to at least Touch Hidan.

If Tsunade can scramble his control over his body she can Immobilize him before he creates his seal.

[Wooster]

You forgot that Hidan doesin't start in his cursed mode, If hidan gets close enough to hit Tsunade that means Tsunade is close enough to at least Touch Hidan.

If Tsunade can scramble his control over his body she can Immobilize him before he creates his seal.
Not true. Hidan's weapon has a long reach. He is good at squirming around as his battle with Asuma and Shikamaru showed. She could use it agaisnt Kabuto because their battle was hand-to-hand.

[Sagepain]

Not true. Hidan's weapon has a long reach. He is good at squirming around as his battle with Asuma and Shikamaru showed. She could use it agaisnt Kabuto because their battle was hand-to-hand.

Tsunade is an evastion master, she can easily dodge Hidan blade if he throws it.

If Sakura can avoid being hit by hundreds of puppets than Tsunade can avoid being hit by 1 Scythe.

[Nick Tasogare]

That doesn't prove her loss of phobia. Like I said before, which is yet to be refuted; just because you kill a spider, doesn't mean you lost fear of it.

Lolwut? No, being covered with blood and being a nervous wreck, and then being covered in blood and rising to the occasion doesn't mean she overcame her fear. Silly me, I must be mistaken.

Fears are tricky. Irrational fears are irrational, so they don't make much sense, obviously. Her fear isn't irrational. It was triggered by a traumatic event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when someone is able to move past something, they generally move past the fear, if any, that was associated with said event, no?

You kill the spider out of fear. That makes since, but this is different, you can't do that with blood. I'm predicting Tsunade would react the same way, just because you do something antithetical to your phobia doesn't vindicate your resolution to it. Whatever, there's no proof she lost fear of blood, claustrophobia no matter can stay for long periods of time.

Anyways, because she has a fear, she'd get hacked.

You kill the spider out of fear. That's like saying you wipe the blood away out of fear. Two VERY different phobias. People who are afraid of spiders generally don't go at them unless there's no other alternative. I, for one, know that I only do it myself if there's nobody else who will. People who are afraid of blood freeze up and often faint just by seeing it, let along being drenched in your own and other people's blood.

First of All, Legend, Nice Job Debating. You bring up a good point.

To take in mind ^ yes Kabuto did use a pill to boost his overall performance. If I remember correctly, Kiba took a similar pill and it was like a steriod x10.

How far will Mitonic Reg. protect Tsunade? ( Pierced Heart, Brain )

Hidan does take hits alot because of his immortallity. What if Tsunade landed a Nerve Scrambing attack?

I'd say she could recover from almost anything short of decapitation. If she was struck in the brain it would depend on what part and how deep, imo.

Tsunade is an evastion master, she can easily dodge Hidan blade if he throws it.

If Sakura can avoid being hit by hundreds of puppets than Tsunade can avoid being hit by 1 Scythe.

^This. I mean, Sakura developed speed and evasion by being forced to evade Tsunade. She wouldn't be that fast or evasive if Tsunade wasn't equally or greater in both areas. It's like trying to say that Guy can't use the Gates up to or more than the 6th even though Lee can, it makes no sense.

[Wooster]

Tsunade is an evastion master, she can easily dodge Hidan blade if he throws it.

If Sakura can avoid being hit by hundreds of puppets than Tsunade can avoid being hit by 1 Scythe.
Why would she guess that it can't even nick her? Asuma didn't.

Sakura couldn't. She was helped by Chiyo.

[Legend]

Lolwut? No, being covered with blood and being a nervous wreck, and then being covered in blood and rising to the occasion doesn't mean she overcame her fear. Silly me, I must be mistaken.

Fears are tricky. Irrational fears are irrational, so they don't make much sense, obviously. Her fear isn't irrational. It was triggered by a traumatic event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when someone is able to move past something, they generally move past the fear, if any, that was associated with said event, no?



You kill the spider out of fear. That's like saying you wipe the blood away out of fear. Two VERY different phobias. People who are afraid of spiders generally don't go at them unless there's no other alternative. I, for one, know that I only do it myself if there's nobody else who will. People who are afraid of blood freeze up and often faint just by seeing it, let along being drenched in your own and other people's blood.



I'd say she could recover from almost anything short of decapitation. If she was struck in the brain it would depend on what part and how deep, imo.



^This. I mean, Sakura developed speed and evasion by being forced to evade Tsunade. She wouldn't be that fast or evasive if Tsunade wasn't equally or greater in both areas. It's like trying to say that Guy can't use the Gates up to or more than the 6th even though Lee can, it makes no sense.


Well, whatever. I can't help you on the phobia thing, that would be a waste of my time. If you think it's a certain way, I have no right to impose otherwise, that's just your interpretation.

Regardless of that, my argument on her deficient reflexive and speed feats don't focus around that boundary(blood phobia). She still got bopped outside of that time frame, which is why my argument isn't tethered by her fear. I still think she has that fear, because a guy who goes in an elevator, and comes out still has claustrophobia, but you guys have some other interpretation.

Tsunade isn't an "evasion master." She got hit numerous times, one of which a flying toungue still managed to coil around her, and she let hit happen.

[Sagepain]

[FONT=Century Gothic]
Tsunade isn't an "evasion master." She got hit numerous times, one of which a flying toungue still managed to coil around her, and she let hit happen.

All AFTER she activated Mitotic regen, she didin't need to dodge she was basicly immortal during that time.

Not once have I seen Tsunade get Slashed or stabbed while Mitotic regen was on, So we don't know how much it lasts exactly.

But since Tsunade didin't bother dodging that means she wasin't woried about getting stabbed, which is what orochimaru was gonna try to do before Tsunade countered after getting angry. Chapter 170 page 17.

Tsunade IS an evasion master, She can't teach sakura something she doesin't know herself.

If hidan Throws his Sythe, she can easily dodge it, grab the handle and pull Hidan towards her, then smash his Body to the ground.( same way she did to orochimaru in the same chapter and page I referenced, which would be the ONLY person that could handle that punch without having broken bones)

.

[Legend]

All AFTER she activated Mitotic regen, she didin't need to dodge she was basicly immortal during that time.

Not once have I seen Tsunade get Slashed or stabbed while Mitotic regen was on, So we don't know how much it lasts exactly.

But since Tsunade didin't bother dodging that means she wasin't woried about getting stabbed, which is what orochimaru was gonna try to do before Tsunade countered after getting angry. Chapter 170 page 17.

Tsunade IS an evasion master, She can't teach sakura something she doesin't know herself.

If hidan Throws his Sythe, she can easily dodge it, grab the handle and pull Hidan towards her, then smash his Body to the ground.( same way she did to orochimaru in the same chapter and page I referenced, which would be the ONLY person that could handle that punch without having broken bones)

.


Mitotic Regeneration simply restores the cells, furthermore Sakura could learn moves on her own, we can't draw speculations like that.

Anywho, regardless she wouldn't use Mitotic Regeneration until necessary. Additionally, what's the use of it? She only used it because it was necessary, she's only going to use it, if her cells are marred, which they were. Kabuto, incapacitated her muscles, with Hidan that isn't the situation. No matter how much she uses, it doesn't increase her strength(technically). Like I've said before, Mitotic Regenration is inconsequential in this fight.

Purpose: Restore cells

A.This doesn't reverse Hidan's ritual
B.Tsunade still is deficient in speed
C.It would be a waste of chakra, Hidan could repeatedly do this, and only waste physical energy, while Tsunade dissipates her chakra storage.

I already gave you proof of her deficiencies in the area of speed, before Mitotic Regeneration, she's not fast.

[Sagepain]

Hidan gets close, Tsunade punches him.

Hidan throws his sythe, Tsunade slightly dodges, grabs the handle , pulls hidan and punches him the way she did to orochimaru Chapter 170 page 17.

[Legend]

Hidan gets close, Tsunade punches him.

Hidan throws his sythe, Tsunade slightly dodges, grabs the handle , pulls hidan and punches him the way she did to orochimaru Chapter 170 page 17.

She doesn't dodge a three-blade scythe, furthermore she failed to dodge Orochimaru's flying tounge.

[EvL j3st3r]

She doesn't dodge a three-blade scythe, furthermore she failed to dodge Orochimaru's flying tounge.....so what. It doesn't matter if someone else landed an attack on her. It doesn't mean that she can't dodge any attack. That's just Naive.

[Sagepain]

She doesn't dodge a three-blade scythe, furthermore she failed to dodge Orochimaru's flying tounge.

the scythe can cut her, it won't change the fact that Tsunade will pull hidan using the rope thats attached to hidan and punch him the way she did to orochimaru, Simple cuts don't slow Tsunade down.

[Legend]

the scythe can cut her, it won't change the fact that Tsunade will pull hidan using the rope thats attached to hidan and punch him the way she did to orochimaru, Simple cuts don't slow Tsunade down.

Hidan can wravel up the rope himself. He uses the rope for long-ranged or mid-ranged attacks, but it doesn't matter. Tsunade is too slow to hit or evade Hidan, I proved this with the links already.

....so what. It doesn't matter if someone else landed an attack on her. It doesn't mean that she can't dodge any attack. That's just Naive.

Go re-read all my attestations and references proving Tsunade is incapable of dodging moves.

[Nick Tasogare]

No offense, but you didn't really prove anything. All you said is that she still has her fears, insert useless links. Even if she still has the fear, and that's a big if, she found the strength to over come it once, I doubt she's incapable of doing it again, so void.

She's not an evasion master because she's been hit before? So if a Ninjutsu Master runs out of Chakra, or a Taijutsu Master gets run down, are they not a Master in the respective field? I mean, just because someone lets something happen doesn't mean they suck and are incapable. The friggen 3rd Hokage let himself get nailed with a sword so as to stop Orochimaru, no? Who's to say that she didn't take the attack as part of a plan? It's a fairly common tactic in the series, as I'm sure we'll all attest.

As for your droll on Mitotic Regeneration, she's a Medic. One way or another she's going to heal herself, whether it's with Mystical Palm or it gets to the point of needing Mitotic Regeneration. The later may not reverse his ritual, but his ritual depends on harming himself over and over again until the other is killed, and remaining in the circle. If her cells keep splitting and healing, his ritual isn't going to do jack. And her only doing it because of what Kabuto had done to her body is totally irrelevant. If inexplicable wounds keep appearing around her body, I'm gonna bet that she's going to activate it. We all know Hidan likes to torture and then basically tell what he's doing to you and why.

On top of that, he needs to stay within his little circle, so let's assume he does get her blood, drink it, draw the circle, and attack himself. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is up with that, especially when said person is a Medical Specialist and their body is being harmed in exactly the same spots as his without any attacks upon themself. It also doesn't take long to activate Mitotic Regeneration. It simply relies on breaking the seal and then focusing it effortlessly to heal. After that, she walks up to Hidan, who likely won't leave the circle. She could flick him out of the circle, or even just punch him and shatter his body. He may be immortal, but he doesn't regenerate.

As to what you insinuated about there not being a lot of Chakra for the seal, you have no way to know that. It saps small amounts of Chakra from her body daily, so there's a very good possibility that she could have enormous amounts built up, as not only does it sap it daily, it compresses it to fit behind that one small seal. I don't know if you were aware, but the Chakra behind the seal is not the same as her regular Chakra that she uses for other things.

[Legend]

No offense, but you didn't really prove anything. All you said is that she still has her fears, insert useless links. Even if she still has the fear, and that's a big if, she found the strength to over come it once, I doubt she's incapable of doing it again, so void.

Useless links? I've still proven she's incapable of dodging, whether you like it or not, that is what is there, you can't make speculations that it's "possible", the manga has quantified her deficient reflexive skills. To say that it isn't true, is not accepting what was given on the page, and Tsunade was obviously fighting for her life. Additionally, if she was "planning to"(which I highly doubt) she would obviously suggest to the audience somehow. If she did something devious like that, it's common for the author to give an intimation of this. They were fighting, there was no "planning to get hit." Yea, sure Hidan "planned" to get hit, because he's immortal. Bottom line, you can't submit that argument if there wasn't a substantial intimation in the manga of it.


She's not an evasion master because she's been hit before? So if a Ninjutsu Master runs out of Chakra, or a Taijutsu Master gets run down, are they not a Master in the respective field? I mean, just because someone lets something happen doesn't mean they suck and are incapable. The friggen 3rd Hokage let himself get nailed with a sword so as to stop Orochimaru, no? Who's to say that she didn't take the attack as part of a plan? It's a fairly common tactic in the series, as I'm sure we'll all attest.

This is a fallacy. Because you have no real feats, that she actually fairly dodged more attacks than she got hit with, your statement is invalid. Furthermore, I've provided multiple attestations to discredit her reflexive feats, so after each time she disproves herself. If the Third lets a guy stick a pole up his ass, in a hypothetical that must be used as an attestation, it would be standardless and biased to say, "that wouldn't happen in my hypothetical," when we know full and well that it already happened in the manga. While what you said is partially true, it's standardless when debating over literature. What happens happens, you can't tell me she would dodge it, even though she never did. That's speculative and not objective. It happened, there's no getting out of that feat. Tsunade got hit by a flying tongue-that's that, she got hit with that tongue, therefore I infer her reflexive skills are inferior. You can't respond, "that was only one time", because that leads to speculation train.



As for your droll on Mitotic Regeneration, she's a Medic. One way or another she's going to heal herself, whether it's with Mystical Palm or it gets to the point of needing Mitotic Regeneration. The later may not reverse his ritual, but his ritual depends on harming himself over and over again until the other is killed, and remaining in the circle. If her cells keep splitting and healing, his ritual isn't going to do jack. And her only doing it because of what Kabuto had done to her body is totally irrelevant. If inexplicable wounds keep appearing around her body, I'm gonna bet that she's going to activate it. We all know Hidan likes to torture and then basically tell what he's doing to you and why.

Ok, I already gave her Mitotic Regernation, it does absolutely nothing to help her. Hidan could chronically beat her, rather kill her by stabbing his own heart.


On top of that, he needs to stay within his little circle, so let's assume he does get her blood, drink it, draw the circle, and attack himself. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is up with that, especially when said person is a Medical Specialist and their body is being harmed in exactly the same spots as his without any attacks upon themself. It also doesn't take long to activate Mitotic Regeneration. It simply relies on breaking the seal and then focusing it effortlessly to heal. After that, she walks up to Hidan, who likely won't leave the circle. She could flick him out of the circle, or even just punch him and shatter his body. He may be immortal, but he doesn't regenerate.

First of all, she never punched someone so hard, that their head fell off in the manga. Additionally, Hidan can't die, she'd just be wasting her chakra, and she has no Ninjutsu, it's not like she can permanently incapacitate Hidan. Hidan wouldn't take a frontward punch anyways, Tsunade is slow, which I've already proven, using actual feats from the manga.


Also, it doesn't take that long to make a circle, and then inscribe a pentagon within it, try it. Anywho, Hidan would be able to go on for longer than Tsunade would, because Tsunade expends much more chakra than Hidan would. Hidan is basically using a sword, while Tsunade expends much more physical energy on heavy blows.




As to what you insinuated about there not being a lot of Chakra for the seal, you have no way to know that. It saps small amounts of Chakra from her body daily, so there's a very good possibility that she could have enormous amounts built up, as not only does it sap it daily, it compresses it to fit behind that one small seal. I don't know if you were aware, but the Chakra behind the seal is not the same as her regular Chakra that she uses for other things.

It's a possibility, but like I said, it's inconsequential in the fight, insofar as it doesn't stop Hidan's actions.

Tsunade is featless of multiple reflexes, so she obviously loses. Every other ninja more reflexive feats than her.

[EvL j3st3r]

Giving links where she was hit by an attack doesn't prove that she's incapable of dodging. Stop embarrassing yourself with that stupid pointless argument. Pick any character in the manga. Somewhere you can find a panel where they were hit with an attack. So by your logic........noone in the narutoverse is capable of evading an attack??? Get over it, all you've given us is the evidence that you feel supports your personal theory not evidence proving a fact. Your theory is flawed. Just bc someone fails to do something at a certain point or points doesn't mean they are incapable of it. As I said, it's something that can be said about all Naruto characters, not just Tsunade.

[Legend]

Giving links where she was hit by an attack doesn't prove that she's incapable of dodging. Stop embarrassing yourself with that stupid pointless argument. Pick any character in the manga. Somewhere you can find a panel where they were hit with an attack. So by your logic........noone in the narutoverse is capable of evading an attack??? Get over it, all you've given us is the evidence that you feel supports your personal theory not evidence proving a fact. Your theory is flawed. Just bc someone fails to do something at a certain point or points doesn't mean they are incapable of it. As I said, it's something that can be said about all Naruto characters, not just Tsunade.

You lose. If you're going to act delusional, then don't debate with me. If she got hit, she got hit, you can't get out of that. Now you say "she can dodge", however that isn't quantified by a shi*, rather the contradictory claim is supported in the manga, stop wasting time. It's one thing to rebutt my argument within standardized reason, it's another thing to completely ignore it, by absolutely deprecating exactly what happened in the manga. Without the manga, your argument is

A.Standardless
B.Unfocused
C.Biased
D.Invalid, insofar as it's your own dirty opinion, rather I proved you wrong with the manga. If she got punched, it would happen in a hypothetical, unless it's PnJ, which it isn't. Furthermore, if it happened in the manga, and it wasn't PnJ, I don't know who the hell you think you are, intimating your own ideas are more valuable than the actual feats itself.
E.Irrelevant
F.Surrealistic

Also, that was so lame. There are multiple times where one may dodge attacks, or hit someone, so you get some average off of that. Similar to speed feats. Furthermore, if she got hit by a flying tounge, that means she can't dodge a punch. Kakashi dodges basically every hit thrown at him, why? Because he has a Sharingan. You can't simply deny every feat that doesn't accord with your argument.

My logic isn't standardless, yours is. I simply pulled feats out, and evaluated how many times she got hit. What you did was never use the manga at all, you're raging at me, because you're mad there isn't anything in the manga to use for your argument.

Finally, it's fallacious because you're saying, just because it happened "once", doesn't mean it will happen the next time. That's a fallacious claim, as it is absolutely standardless and biased. For starters, in literature(books), you cannot say this, because in the exact fight, it happened only one way. You can't sit here and say, "it could've happened a different way", when there's no implications in the manga of this. When Kakashi got kicked by Kakuzu, you're direct inference is: Kakashi can't dodge another kick like that again, why? Because the manga doesn't ramify to contingencies, it's a book, it isn't your life story. The best inference to make, is that in the next time Kakashi cannot dodge the kick again, because there are no suggestions that he can, furthermore by saying that he can, you are making a no-limits fallacy that can be applied to anything. Not only that, but you are conceiving something adverse to the manga.

[EvL j3st3r]

No. Your not proving anything with that. You're speculating by things you've seen. That's circumstantial. You need to learn the difference between proof and speculation.
And my claim is supported by the manga. I said pick any character and there is a panel where they are hit by an attack. That is in the manga. So by your logic, noone in the manga can evade attacks. Have you nothing to say directly about that?

And when I say that Tsunade is an evasion master....yes it is speculation...so what? So is everything you're saying. And (just like you) I draw my speculation from things that are in the manga. She told Sakura that attack evasion is the most important attribute of a medical ninja and it's where she gave her the most intensive training. Tsunade is the most renowned medical ninja. And if she feels that a medical ninja must be an attack evasion master it is only logical that she holds herself to that same standard, most likely more so than others. If it was so important to her that Sakura be able to evade as a medical ninja, is it not logical to assume that she also feels it is important for herself as a MN as well? And if she could teach Sakura to effectively evade attacks, is it not logical to assume that the teacher knows how as well?

There you go. So stop saying that the argument isn't relative to the manga when it obviously is. At least I acknowledge that this is speculation instead of insisting it's proof like you do with your circumstantial evidence.

[Legend]

No. Your not proving anything with that. You're speculating by things you've seen. That's circumstantial. You need to learn the difference between proof and speculation.
And my claim is supported by the manga. I said pick any character and there is a panel where they are hit by an attack. That is in the manga. So by your logic, noone in the manga can evade attacks. Have you nothing to say directly about that?

And when I say that Tsunade is an evasion master....yes it is speculation...so what? So is everything you're saying. And (just like you) I draw my speculation from things that are in the manga. She told Sakura that attack evasion is the most important attribute of a medical ninja and it's where she gave her the most intensive training. Tsunade is the most renowned medical ninja. And if she feels that a medical ninja must be an attack evasion master it is only logical that she holds herself to that same standard, most likely more so than others. If it was so important to her that Sakura be able to evade as a medical ninja, is it not logical to assume that she also feels it is important for herself as a MN as well? And if she could teach Sakura to effectively evade attacks, is it not logical to assume that the teacher knows how as well?

There you go. So stop saying that the argument isn't relative to the manga when it obviously is. At least I acknowledge that this is speculation instead of insisting it's proof like you do with your circumstantial evidence.


I'm done here, your argument rests on absolutely nothing. You are somehow intimating(I don't know what off of) that Tsunade can magically dodge Hidan's punches, when we've clearly seen contradictory feats. So, conclusively you are definitely wrong. I am not speculating anything, because I am affectively using the manga(I've shown roughly seven or eight attestations) while your side has shown one. That means, by default I win, you have insufficient evidence to uphold your claim. That's nice, make something up, such as "she can dodge a punch, just because she didn't do it before, doesn't mean she would do it now". First of all, that's just heresay. Secondly, how would you know if she could or would dodge the hit specifically, what kind of basis does that argument fall on? Speculation as I see it, you have no manga support for your outrageous claim.

Good day, I'm done. I don't feel like being accused of being a speculator, having attested manga predications. You on the other hand, are arguing "could" and "would", but that argument doesn't even accord with the manga.

Naturally, because I can tell you are obstinate, I can tell you're going to respond with the same response, instead of actually countering my argument. But, whatever, like I said you can say what you want, it won't change my thought on this.

I am using the manga, you are apparently not. It seems conspicuous to me, of who is on the right track.

[EvL j3st3r]

This argument is so stale that I can't even read your entire post anymore. I already know what it says and you obviously have some delusion that your speculation = proof. And you keep saying our argument has no manga reference when everyone else can see that it clearly does and has reasonable logic. It's called debating.
Thanks for enlightening me that if someone gets hit it means that they are not capable of dodging any attack ever. How could I have ever been so naive to think differently. Shame on me. I should make my views more narrow minded.

[Sagepain]

I'm done here, your argument rests on absolutely nothing. You are somehow intimating(I don't know what off of) that Tsunade can magically dodge Hidan's punches, when we've clearly seen contradictory feats. So, conclusively you are definitely wrong. I am not speculating anything, because I am affectively using the manga(I've shown roughly seven or eight attestations) while your side has shown one. That means, by default I win, you have insufficient evidence to uphold your claim. That's nice, make something up, such as "she can dodge a punch, just because she didn't do it before, doesn't mean she would do it now". First of all, that's just heresay. Secondly, how would you know if she could or would dodge the hit specifically, what kind of basis does that argument fall on? Speculation as I see it, you have no manga support for your outrageous claim.

Good day, I'm done. I don't feel like being accused of being a speculator, having attested manga predications. You on the other hand, are arguing "could" and "would", but that argument doesn't even accord with the manga.

Naturally, because I can tell you are obstinate, I can tell you're going to respond with the same response, instead of actually countering my argument. But, whatever, like I said you can say what you want, it won't change my thought on this.

I am using the manga, you are apparently not. It seems conspicuous to me, of who is on the right track.

This is a debate, until you convince around 70% of the posts here that Hidan can win than hidan wins, I'm not convinced AT ALL.

IF hidan gets close Tsunade punches, If hidan Throws his Sythe Tsunade grabs it and pulls Hidan in and punches him, The way she did to orochimaru, and the way sakura did to sasori.

Really If you have something that Tsunade can pull Your doomed.

Orochimaru and sasori are pretty much the ONLY people who can survive a punch from sakura or Tsunade without using a defensive technique

Hidan can't retract his sythe after Tsunade grabs a hold of it.

If hidan win's for you thats good, but don't try to shove your opinions down our throats.

I believe Tsunade would win, I don't necesarily think your wrong but I still don't agree that Hidan can win against the Hokage of the leaf, someone that kept EVERYONE in the leaf alive after pain's Super shinra tensei, someone who healed the phychological damage of Tsukoyomi, and someone that completely erased all traces of stab and slash wounds off of her own body, someone that was the reason why the leaf won the second ninja world war.

If stab and slash wounds are gone then the internal damage she has received is gone as well.

Tsunade not once has been hit by a stab or slashing attack the moment she activated Mitotic regen.
Reason: no one used one, why would Tsunade dodge something she knows she can tank.

[Legend]

A sword fight is completely different. Tsunade sucks ass at Kenjutsu, if you can't adduce one fight where it was fist v. big-sword and the swordsman loses, then your post is insubstantial.

You guys keep bringing up the fact she can "pull", "dodge", I already attested she's deficient with reflexes. Look at my references.

This argument is so stale that I can't even read your entire post anymore. I already know what it says and you obviously have some delusion that your speculation = proof. And you keep saying our argument has no manga reference when everyone else can see that it clearly does and has reasonable logic. It's called debating.
Thanks for enlightening me that if someone gets hit it means that they are not capable of dodging any attack ever. How could I have ever been so naive to think differently. Shame on me. I should make my views more narrow minded.

Wow. Just wow. You need help implementing logic fundamentals to applications.

Tsunade failed to hit Kabuto and Orochimaru two times in a row, that's proof that she lacks speed. How the hell do you infer this to be the exact opposite of what was seen? You are either being a troll, or your purview of literature is presumed to be what was expected after your pejorative post.

[Sagepain]

A sword fight is completely different. Tsunade sucks ass at Kenjutsu, if you can't adduce one fight where it was fist v. big-sword and the swordsman loses, then your post is insubstantial.

You guys keep bringing up the fact she can "pull", "dodge", I already attested she's deficient with reflexes. Look at my references.

If sakura can Tsunade can, Its common sense.

[Legend]

If sakura can Tsunade can, Its common sense.

No it isn't. Sakura has her own time to train, they won't be exactly the same. We only know that Tsunade taught her amazing strength capabilities.

[Sagepain]

No it isn't. Sakura has her own time to train, they won't be exactly the same. We only know that Tsunade taught her amazing strength capabilities.

and Taught her how to dodge by attacking her relentlessly.
until she dodged all the attacks.


I know they won't be the same, Tsunade is obviously gonna be better.

Again if sakura can Tsunade can, Its common sense.

[Legend]

and Taught her how to dodge by attacking her relentlessly.
until she dodged all the attacks.


I know they won't be the same, Tsunade is obviously gonna be better.

Again if sakura can Tsunade can, Its common sense.

And again, Sakura was a Genin. Slow person v. Slow person, and? It's more safe to refer to her battles, rather than that, because that will entail speculation. What we've seen, is a deficiency in reflex capabilities.

[Sagepain]

And again, Sakura was a Genin. Slow person v. Slow person, and? It's more safe to refer to her battles, rather than that, because that will entail speculation. What we've seen, is a deficiency in reflex capabilities.

anything before she overcame her fear of blood, wasin't Tsunade at her peak and even then she didin't die.

she never needed to react to or dodge anything when she activated Mitotic regen.

Orochimaru stopped using his sword for an unkown reason.

Why would Tsunade need to dodge something she could tank and counter.

Hidan's blade has inferior killing capabilties compared to the sword of kusanagi, If hidan gets his sythe anywhere close to Tsunade she'll grab it and pull hidan towards her.

[Legend]

anything before she overcame her fear of blood, wasin't Tsunade at her peak and even then she didin't die.

she never needed to react to or dodge anything when she activated Mitotic regen.

Orochimaru stopped using his sword for an unkown reason.

Why would Tsunade need to dodge something she could tank and counter.

Hidan's blade has inferior killing capabilties compared to the sword of kusanagi, If hidan gets his sythe anywhere close to Tsunade she'll grab it and pull hidan towards her.

All events prior to Mitotic Regeneration hit her. I'm not caring about Orochimaru.

[Sagepain]

All events prior to Mitotic Regeneration hit her. I'm not caring about Orochimaru.

that post didin't contribute towards the thread what so ever.

[Legend]

that post didin't contribute towards the thread what so ever.

It was 100% pertinent. I'm not sure if there was a misunderstanding. I said all events prior to her jutsu, she got hit a multitude of times, as well as miss her targets. Anyways, by using Mitotic Regeneration, it doesn't change anything, insofar as we've already seen her incapability of landing hits on her opponents @ full health.

[Sagepain]

It was 100% pertinent. I'm not sure if there was a misunderstanding. I said all events prior to her jutsu, she got hit a multitude of times, as well as miss her targets. Anyways, by using Mitotic Regeneration, it doesn't change anything, insofar as we've already seen her incapability of landing hits on her opponents @ full health.

It was inpertinent because I never denied that, NOWHERE have I stated that Tsunade dodged every attack before activating Mitotic regen.
I clearly stated that all that happened when she was NOT at her peak yet still managed to activate mitotic regen, If she can still move after having muscles torn and being slashed and stabbed, whats stopping her from simply grabbing hidans sythe after it cuts her,pull him in and simply punch him?

You don't care about orochimaru............I don't need to explain that one.

She hit orochimaru the exact same way I explained Tsunade would hit hidan.

[Legend]

It was inpertinent because I never denied that, NOWHERE have I stated that Tsunade dodged every attack before activating Mitotic regen.
I clearly stated that all that happened when she was NOT at her peak yet still managed to activate mitotic regen, If she can still move after having muscles torn and being slashed and stabbed, whats stopping her from simply grabbing hidans sythe after it cuts her,pull him in and simply punch him?

You don't care about orochimaru............I don't need to explain that one.

She hit orochimaru the exact same way I explained Tsunade would hit hidan.

First off, it's pertinent. I never impugned what you had said, I was saying that she still never dodged prior to Mitotic Regeneration. Also, what you said about Mitotic Regeneration is wrong. Nowhere in the manga, does it say you are at your "peak", you can't add artificial facets to your skillset like that, specifically faster reaction time. According to the manga, Mitotic Regeneration restores her muscles (Chapter 169 p.16), logically before fighting her muscles were intact. And again, I don't know what you meant by "peak", but it doesn't serve to further your argument. She still failed to dodge before she was severred.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Without knowledge, I see Hidan trapping Tsunade in his Ritual. Hidan is acrobatic, which Tsunade gravely lacks. Albeit, Hidan is the weakest Akatsuki. Tsunade could just break his weapon and one shot him, eliminating his mobility. Then again, Tsunade is known to tank attacks instead of dodging, so she would more than likely try to tank his weapon, which would cut her. Hidan would collect her blood and GG Tsunade. Knowledge is what is hindering Tsunade. Knowing Hidan however, Hidan would not immediately kill Tsunade, he would toy with her and Tsunade would activate Creation Rebirth. Then, Hidan is royally screwed. Eh, I am going with Tsunade.

[Sagepain]

Without knowledge, I see Hidan trapping Tsunade in his Ritual. Hidan is acrobatic, which Tsunade gravely lacks. Albeit, Hidan is the weakest Akatsuki. Tsunade could just break his weapon and one shot him, eliminating his mobility. Then again, Tsunade is known to tank attacks instead of dodging, so she would more than likely try to tank his weapon, which would cut her. Hidan would collect her blood and GG Tsunade. Knowledge is what is hindering Tsunade. Knowing Hidan however, Hidan would not immediately kill Tsunade, he would toy with her and Tsunade would activate Creation Rebirth. Then, Hidan is royally screwed. Eh, I am going with Tsunade.

Also Tsunade has the tendency to pull on things that are attached to someone
EX:oro's tongue.

Tsunade would grab hidan sythe and pull him in, and follow it up with a punch.

remember hidan has to hit her first, which would require his sythe to get into close proximity of her.

[Legend]

Without knowledge, I see Hidan trapping Tsunade in his Ritual. Hidan is acrobatic, which Tsunade gravely lacks. Albeit, Hidan is the weakest Akatsuki. Tsunade could just break his weapon and one shot him, eliminating his mobility. Then again, Tsunade is known to tank attacks instead of dodging, so she would more than likely try to tank his weapon, which would cut her. Hidan would collect her blood and GG Tsunade. Knowledge is what is hindering Tsunade. Knowing Hidan however, Hidan would not immediately kill Tsunade, he would toy with her and Tsunade would activate Creation Rebirth. Then, Hidan is royally screwed. Eh, I am going with Tsunade.

Even with that, Hidan could stab himself again, it would be pointless activating Mitotic Regeneration.

Also Tsunade has the tendency to pull on things that are attached to someone
EX:oro's tongue.

Tsunade would grab hidan sythe and pull him in, and follow it up with a punch.

remember hidan has to hit her first, which would require his sythe to get into close proximity of her.

The rope is an extention if he wants to open more options(e.g. mid- range, far-range, the rope isn't naturally out, it's up Hidan's sleeve.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Also Tsunade has the tendency to pull on things that are attached to someone
EX:oro's tongue.

Tsunade would grab hidan sythe and pull him in, and follow it up with a punch.

remember hidan has to hit her first, which would require his sythe to get into close proximity of her.

I doubt it.

Tsunade only pulled on Orochimaru's tongue because the tongue constricted her. In this case, Hidan would only aim to cut Tsunade, not constrict her movement. Tsunade would more than likely attempt to tank the weapon.

Even with that, Hidan could stab himself again, it would be pointless activating Mitotic Regeneration.



The rope is an extention if he wants to open more options(e.g. mid- range, far-range, the rope isn't naturally out, it's up Hidan's sleeve.

Creation Rebirth makes Tsunade momentarily immortal. Stabbing himself again would do nothing to Tsunade. As long as Creation Rebirth is active, Tsunade will constantly regenerate damaged tissue/cells/organs.

[Sagepain]

Even with that, Hidan could stab himself again, it would be pointless activating Mitotic Regeneration.



The rope is an extention if he wants to open more options(e.g. mid- range, far-range, the rope isn't naturally out, it's up Hidan's sleeve.

...If hidan throws his sythe, the rope is now visible, therefore Tsunade grabs it pulls hidan and punches it.

If the rope is in his sleeve when hidan attacks that means hidan is in close proximity to her, Tsunade punches hidan.

[Sagepain]

I doubt it.

Tsunade only pulled on Orochimaru's tongue because the tongue constricted her. In this case, Hidan would only aim to cut Tsunade, not constrict her movement. Tsunade would more than likely attempt to tank the weapon.


Sakura pulled on Sasori's rope, Tsunade pulled on orochimaru's tongue.

With the strength that Tsunade has, its like begging Tsunade to pull it, its a free hit if she does, why wouldin't she?

EDIT: I thought I edited my post with this second quote..........stupid me.:(

[Kazumi Saitama]

Sakura pulled on Sasori's rope, Tsunade pulled on orochimaru's tongue.

With the strength that Tsunade has, its like begging Tsunade to pull it, its a free hit if she does, why wouldin't she?

EDIT: I thought I edited my post with this second quote..........stupid me.:(

Yeah, Sakura pulled on Sasori's cord after the cord was embedded within a rock. If Sasori had directly aimed to stab Sakura with said cord, Sakura wouldn't have been able to accomplish such a feat.

Orochimaru aimed to constrict Tsunade, choking her. Tsunade then reacted by loosening his grip before swinging him like a rag doll.

Tsunade would be unable to catch Hidan's weapon midair without getting cut in the process. The only way I see Tsunade grabbing his weapon is if his weapon is momentarily embedded into something, like the ground.

[Sagepain]

Yeah, Sakura pulled on Sasori's cord after the cord was embedded within a rock. If Sasori had directly aimed to stab Sakura with said cord, Sakura wouldn't have been able to accomplish such a feat.

Orochimaru aimed to constrict Tsunade, choking her. Tsunade then reacted by loosening his grip before swinging him like a rag doll.

Tsunade would be unable to catch Hidan's weapon midair without getting cut in the process. The only way I see Tsunade grabbing his weapon is if his weapon is momentarily embedded into something, like the ground.

Tsunade can get cut thats not stopping her from pulling hidan with her other arm via the rope.

She managed to activate mitotic regen after getting slashed and stabbed she can manage to grab the sythe and pull hidan in.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Tsunade can get cut thats not stopping her from pulling hidan with her other arm via the rope.

She managed to activate mitotic regen after getting slashed and stabbed she can manage to grab the sythe and pull hidan in.

Are you forgetting that Hidan wields a huge ass scythe? :/
When would Tsunade find the opportunity to grab the cord attached to its end?

[Sagepain]

Are you forgetting that Hidan wields a huge ass scythe? :/
When would Tsunade find the opportunity to grab the cord attached to its end?

she doesin't need to she can grab the blade itself once it stops moving when it makes contact with her.

[Kazumi Saitama]

she doesin't need to she can grab the blade itself once it stops moving when it makes contact with her.

When has Tsunade shown such a capability? Additionally, the blade is designed to cut, not puncture. Therefore, the blade would not stop. It would merely cut her and return to Hidan.

[Sagepain]

When has Tsunade shown such a capability? Additionally, the blade is designed to cut, not puncture. Therefore, the blade would not stop. It would merely cut her and return to Hidan.

Then Tsunade dodges, she's not a sitting duck.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Then Tsunade dodges, she's not a sitting duck.

Tsunade is known to tank, not dodge.

[SimpleGenin]

Hidan

-In order for the curse to work, he has to be inside the symbol made off of blood.

-IC usually means, Hidan would be cocky and always prolonging the fight. Kakuzu said that himself.

-Although his immortal, his body can be trashed to a certain degree before it breaks.

Tsunade

-Lacks feats overall (Oro and Jiraiya had major upgrade going from Orginal Naruto to Shippuden)

-Slow

-One hit KO for most opponents.

[Legend]

Lol, I'm done. Not only does Tsunade not possess natural skills in continuous Taijutsu, she never dodged Kabuto's attacks, and she missed two hits in a row, there's the proof. IMO it isn't debatable, we've seen she's deficient.

[Shikamaru Nara]

She's not deficient, she's just a weakass character.

[Sagepain]

She's not deficient, she's just a weakass character.

Technically she's a strongass character(literally).......... she just hasin't shown much..yet.

[Wooster]

I think we know how Tsunade fights. See the Kabuto battle she takes hitsw even when they hurt her. She doesn't dodge. Even if she scrambled Hidan nerves it would eventually wear off. It did on Kabuto. She would figure out Hidan is immortal, but she would not figure out his ritual.

Maybe Katsuya could save her. Imprison Hidan in a slug and the day is done. But I don't know how hard it is to escape that.

Tsunade is known to tank, not dodge.
Kazumi taking down Tsunade???.... >.>
<.<
>.>
<333

[Lone_Espada]

I think we know how Tsunade fights. See the Kabuto battle she takes hitsw even when they hurt her. She doesn't dodge. Even if she scrambled Hidan nerves it would eventually wear off. It did on Kabuto. She would figure out Hidan is immortal, but she would not figure out his ritual.

Maybe Katsuya could save her. Imprison Hidan in a slug and the day is done. But I don't know how hard it is to escape that.


Kazumi taking down Tsunade???.... >.>
<.<
>.>
<333

It didn't wear off on Kabuto. He was smart enough to figure out how to make his nerves work after a few seconds of thinking about it. At least that's what I remember from that fight.

[Lady Tsunade]

First off, it doesn't make a difference whether he punches or taps. If he taps, it actually does less damage. Anyways, any ninja can jump long distances, they're ninja for christ sake. Well, anyway her jumping power is absolutely irrelevant. You would puport she jumps, but then again who cares, she did the same thing here, (Chapter 163 p.18). Oh, by the way I'm linking, because I do it out of benevolence and respect for other users, and to prevent confusion. Her jumping power is irrelevant, all we care about is whether she can land a punch, on a vigilant blood-hungry person wich she can't even do.

/sigh

Quoting me from another site:

Most people regard the speed Tsunade has shown to be all from Part I, when she fought with Kabuto and Orochimaru. Of course, while the speed feats she showed were excellent during those chapters, I believe - that few she shows in Part II, are even better. But, they are debatable. While Tsunade once said speed was not really her forte, if we used the Databook stats (though they're usually inaccurate), we see that she has a 3.5 in speed. Which is far above average. We also know from her ability to intercept attacks from Orochimaru and Manda, that she is very fast. Basicly, she is no way ' Sluggish '. Anyway, getting to the point:

First speed feat. During the Invasion of Pein, Pein uses Chou Shinra Tensei to obliterate Konoha, and reduce it to a giant crater. Tsunade is first spotted sitting on the edge of the rater. [Chapter 430 page 9]. She has used all of her chakra protecting Konoha, and is in a very unhealthy state. She is also sitting down, and her ANBU guard is under heavy surveillance of her. In other words, if she tries anything - he will stop her.

Now, note that from pages 11-13 [of Chapter 430], we are shown Konan and the other Paths of Pein. As well as Naraka reviving Asura. However, this is happening at the same time as when Naruto confronts Pein. In other words, at most - there is a few seconds gap between when Sakura realises Naruto is on the battlefield, and when Nagatos other Paths fall onto the battlefield, to join Deva. Which funnily enough - is when Tsunade appears again [page 14]. Despite having previously sat down, at least 50 metres behind - she managed to jump the entire distance in one go. And does so , so quickly - that her ANBU guard, known for their top tier senses , doesn't even notice her move, until she appears on the ground again. Even then, by the time Tsunade tells Pein off, and Pein backtalks her, and Asura is fired at her - her ANBU guard, although jumping when Tsunade started to talk, has not even reached ground by the time Asura Path is right in front of her. Which actually shows that, a near comatose Tsunade - was able to jump this huge distance, faster than her ANBU was. We never see her actually jump off the side of the Konoha crater, but from what I have provided above. We should be able to see the rough amount of time it took. Little more than a few seconds.

It wasn't a normal jump.


There are two problems I have with that. No one is "ignoring" those speed feats, if anything you're ignoring mine. You re-promulgated Tsunade jumping, that was already debunked in my previous reference listings. Also, you mentioned her muscles were marred, well that has nothing to do with anything. Her nervous system was never marred, if anyone's nervous system was re-wired it was Kabuto's(true). I called your speed feats, inconsequential, because they're unadducible. I'll even pull up references of when she did hit someone, which of some were totally mis-interpreted by you.

You keep saying all of this irrelevant stuff about her being outclassed by Kabuto, which I have proved wrong. Tsunade moved the same speed as Kabuto, more or less. And after this she moved at speeds which greatly exceeded the speed she showed against Kabuto, because she was pushed to the absolute limit. Her muscles in her legs and arm were damaged and she was in pain, she could not react to Kabuto running at her and throwing a chakra scalpel at her chest. This disproves your point about her not being able to dodge Kabuto on this occasion because of a lack of speed. Kabutos nervous system was messed up yes, and it was at the end of the fight that he worked out how to move around again, he did not try to challenge her to close range after reworking his reflexes. So its not as if he was ever at a disadvantage during their fight. The speed feats I've provided have been backed up fine, and thus are very relevant, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that they aren't from.

(Chapter 164 p. 10)-Kabuto got bopped by Tsunade to the ground. Kabuto already admittted he was poor in Taijutsu, so it isn't even laudable. Good for her, she bopped someone who's poor in Taijutsu. Hidan is spectacular in Kenjutsu, Tsunade can't fight fist v. sword, that's fundamentally illogical.

He said " Although I'm not that good with taijutsu " before popping the pill into his mouth, obviously suggestive that his skills would be enhanced. Also note that Orochimaru said " Tsunade seem's to be running out of breathe, it might a good idea to use ' it ' now. " . Clearly Kabuto was very reliant on this pill to enhance his taijutsu abilities. Furthermore, Tsunade has moved faster than when she did when fighting Kabuto, for the billionth time. So even if Hidan does draw blood from her at first because she doesn't move fast enough, when pushed to the limit she can move faster, as I've proved. As Hidan writes his ritual circle, which takes significant time given they're fighting in a match, Tsunade can simply interupt him and stop him doing so. Eventually she will be driven to the limit after taking several hits, at which stage she will force herself to move faster, and land a hit of Hidan sooner or later.

(Chapter 164 p.12) Tsunade runs by Kabuto and taps him along the neck. For starters, Kabuto was fixing his glasses, having not fixed his glasses, he could easily done what he did before, simply dodge that slow attack.

It wasn't slow xD Panel before Tsunade is lying on the ground, a mere moment later Tsunade has already ran past Kabuto and thrown a strike to his spine before he can even register what has happened. Given it wasn't exactly Sasuke speed but it wasn't slow. That was perhaps the fastest thing Tsunade did during her fight with Kabuto, and she was injured. I'm not even sure if Kabuto would've reacted to that so easily given he never dodged anything of that speed beforehand.

(Chapter 164 p.14) This is a follow-up, of what happened when Kabuto got hit with that first attack. But obviously, he could block this attack, having not been hit by Tsunade the first time. And, again he was only hit, because he was fixing his glasses(not acting seriously, and not paying attention, had a blind eye).

Yep. We've discussed this already. I know Kabuto and Tsunade were on the same level of speed as they fought each other.

(Chapter 169 p.14) I'll give you this feat, however it's inconsistent. Furthermore, she punched Orochimaru, and he only had "scratches".

And? She moved faster while injured, being pushed to the absolute limit. If Orochimaru couldn't react then there's not a cat in hells chance Kabuto would've. Hardly matters if its inconsistent, she showed the feat with Manda later on though, so I'd imagine she can move at these type of speeds whenever she pushes herself enough.

(Chapter 170 p.15) This is devoid substantiveness. She hit him from behind, good for her and sneak attacking.

How? Who cares if she got him from behind. She still lifted the friking sword swung it around and threw it into Mandas mouth before he snapped his jaw, and from past experience [hopefully] you would know how quickly someone, let alone an Anaconda can snap their jaw. I wasn't saying Manda would've been unable to react to her [though its doubtful] , I'm just saying she moved faster than his mouth did while holding a sword so gigantic.

Also, give me a reference of what you are talking about(Tsunade v. Pain).

I did.

(Chapter 170 p.17)?

On the site I'm using, chapter 17 shows her in mid air with a giant sword aiming it at Manda as he is mid way through snapping at Gamabunta.

This isn't even a speed feat. It's a mere Taijutsu battle. This helps me, she never even reacted to Orochimaru's flying tongue. This is more reason why Tsunade loses.

Yes it is. For reasons already given a ridiculous amount of times. She never saw Orochimarus tongue coming at her. Jiraiya, who actually saw the tongue coming, couldn't dodge either.

I'm going to help you out, and extract a passage from NF, where we talked about how slow Tsunade is. They don't call her a slug for nothing.

The call her The Slug Princess, because she uses Slugs...

"In contrast, Tsunade's opponent was stopped by a base Naruto(Chapter 166 p.18-19) , who had a broken leg at the time from Orochimaru and Kabuto's snake summon. Kimimaro is probably the most elegant taijutsu user in the manga, and his feats far surpass anything Tsunade has shown in her performance against Kabuto."-Strategos

Yes. And that would be, what I call an inconsistency - since Narutos taijutsu clones were easily destroyed by Kabuto as they tried to attack him in several directions prior. Naruto took the time to sit and prepare his rasengan, and Kabuto merely stood and watched without dodging, or even attempting it. [Chapter 167 page 16] Instead he stood and moaned at how the chakra was moving around in Narutos hand. I smell plot.

As a last request, please stop with the "extreme fast argument." We are mainly grading Tsunade on most of her feats, and in Taijutsu battle. She's not holding back, as she's fighting for her life. Obviously Ninja don't purposely hit slower.[/QUOTE]

Tsunade is average in speed when compared to the rest of the Narutoverse. As is Hidan. She moves faster when pushed to her limits, she is not trying to hit slower normally. This speed would come naturally with her state of mind.

If you're done, then let us end this business about her being slow and sluggish because she couldn't kee pup with Kabuto. Which is incorrect, and irrelevant in the end.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Kazumi taking down Tsunade???.... >.>
<.<
>.>
<333

Kazzy would rollstomp on Tsunade's face. P:

WOO! ♥♥♥

[Nick Tasogare]

It didn't wear off on Kabuto. He was smart enough to figure out how to make his nerves work after a few seconds of thinking about it. At least that's what I remember from that fight.

QFT =)

[Legend]

/sigh

Quoting me from another site:

Most people regard the speed Tsunade has shown to be all from Part I, when she fought with Kabuto and Orochimaru. Of course, while the speed feats she showed were excellent during those chapters, I believe - that few she shows in Part II, are even better. But, they are debatable. While Tsunade once said speed was not really her forte, if we used the Databook stats (though they're usually inaccurate), we see that she has a 3.5 in speed. Which is far above average. We also know from her ability to intercept attacks from Orochimaru and Manda, that she is very fast. Basicly, she is no way ' Sluggish '. Anyway, getting to the point:

First speed feat. During the Invasion of Pein, Pein uses Chou Shinra Tensei to obliterate Konoha, and reduce it to a giant crater. Tsunade is first spotted sitting on the edge of the rater. [Chapter 430 page 9]. She has used all of her chakra protecting Konoha, and is in a very unhealthy state. She is also sitting down, and her ANBU guard is under heavy surveillance of her. In other words, if she tries anything - he will stop her.

Now, note that from pages 11-13 [of Chapter 430], we are shown Konan and the other Paths of Pein. As well as Naraka reviving Asura. However, this is happening at the same time as when Naruto confronts Pein. In other words, at most - there is a few seconds gap between when Sakura realises Naruto is on the battlefield, and when Nagatos other Paths fall onto the battlefield, to join Deva. Which funnily enough - is when Tsunade appears again [page 14]. Despite having previously sat down, at least 50 metres behind - she managed to jump the entire distance in one go. And does so , so quickly - that her ANBU guard, known for their top tier senses , doesn't even notice her move, until she appears on the ground again. Even then, by the time Tsunade tells Pein off, and Pein backtalks her, and Asura is fired at her - her ANBU guard, although jumping when Tsunade started to talk, has not even reached ground by the time Asura Path is right in front of her. Which actually shows that, a near comatose Tsunade - was able to jump this huge distance, faster than her ANBU was. We never see her actually jump off the side of the Konoha crater, but from what I have provided above. We should be able to see the rough amount of time it took. Little more than a few seconds.

It wasn't a normal jump.




You keep saying all of this irrelevant stuff about her being outclassed by Kabuto, which I have proved wrong. Tsunade moved the same speed as Kabuto, more or less. And after this she moved at speeds which greatly exceeded the speed she showed against Kabuto, because she was pushed to the absolute limit. Her muscles in her legs and arm were damaged and she was in pain, she could not react to Kabuto running at her and throwing a chakra scalpel at her chest. This disproves your point about her not being able to dodge Kabuto on this occasion because of a lack of speed. Kabutos nervous system was messed up yes, and it was at the end of the fight that he worked out how to move around again, he did not try to challenge her to close range after reworking his reflexes. So its not as if he was ever at a disadvantage during their fight. The speed feats I've provided have been backed up fine, and thus are very relevant, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that they aren't from.



He said " Although I'm not that good with taijutsu " before popping the pill into his mouth, obviously suggestive that his skills would be enhanced. Also note that Orochimaru said " Tsunade seem's to be running out of breathe, it might a good idea to use ' it ' now. " . Clearly Kabuto was very reliant on this pill to enhance his taijutsu abilities. Furthermore, Tsunade has moved faster than when she did when fighting Kabuto, for the billionth time. So even if Hidan does draw blood from her at first because she doesn't move fast enough, when pushed to the limit she can move faster, as I've proved. As Hidan writes his ritual circle, which takes significant time given they're fighting in a match, Tsunade can simply interupt him and stop him doing so. Eventually she will be driven to the limit after taking several hits, at which stage she will force herself to move faster, and land a hit of Hidan sooner or later.



It wasn't slow xD Panel before Tsunade is lying on the ground, a mere moment later Tsunade has already ran past Kabuto and thrown a strike to his spine before he can even register what has happened. Given it wasn't exactly Sasuke speed but it wasn't slow. That was perhaps the fastest thing Tsunade did during her fight with Kabuto, and she was injured. I'm not even sure if Kabuto would've reacted to that so easily given he never dodged anything of that speed beforehand.



Yep. We've discussed this already. I know Kabuto and Tsunade were on the same level of speed as they fought each other.



And? She moved faster while injured, being pushed to the absolute limit. If Orochimaru couldn't react then there's not a cat in hells chance Kabuto would've. Hardly matters if its inconsistent, she showed the feat with Manda later on though, so I'd imagine she can move at these type of speeds whenever she pushes herself enough.



How? Who cares if she got him from behind. She still lifted the friking sword swung it around and threw it into Mandas mouth before he snapped his jaw, and from past experience [hopefully] you would know how quickly someone, let alone an Anaconda can snap their jaw. I wasn't saying Manda would've been unable to react to her [though its doubtful] , I'm just saying she moved faster than his mouth did while holding a sword so gigantic.



I did.



On the site I'm using, chapter 17 shows her in mid air with a giant sword aiming it at Manda as he is mid way through snapping at Gamabunta.



Yes it is. For reasons already given a ridiculous amount of times. She never saw Orochimarus tongue coming at her. Jiraiya, who actually saw the tongue coming, couldn't dodge either.



The call her The Slug Princess, because she uses Slugs...



Yes. And that would be, what I call an inconsistency - since Narutos taijutsu clones were easily destroyed by Kabuto as they tried to attack him in several directions prior. Naruto took the time to sit and prepare his rasengan, and Kabuto merely stood and watched without dodging, or even attempting it. [Chapter 167 page 16] Instead he stood and moaned at how the chakra was moving around in Narutos hand. I smell plot.


Tsunade is average in speed when compared to the rest of the Narutoverse. As is Hidan. She moves faster when pushed to her limits, she is not trying to hit slower normally. This speed would come naturally with her state of mind.

If you're done, then let us end this business about her being slow and sluggish because she couldn't kee pup with Kabuto. Which is incorrect, and irrelevant in the end.

I'm not going to full response to you, It would be a waste of my time.

First off you call that a speed feat(430). People don't understand how to adduce a speed attestation. Give me a link of her location before and after landing. For instance, I would show Deidara evading Sasuke's attack, why is this legal? Because I have a page of where he was instantly before, and I have the page where the speed feat ended. Furthermore, you asserted Tsunade couldn't of been stopped by the ANBU, how did you infer this? Why didn't they manually take Tsunade by force if they were "trying to stop her", that makes no sense. What also doesn't make sense, is that Tsunade came out of nowhere, this is a connection to my previous post, about how legitimate speed attestations work, and yours doesn't.

These are the reasons why that speed feat is impermissible in a compendium:

1.No before and after direct locations in relation to anything

2.Leads to horrible inferences(the speed attestations I give you can discern the before and after location of the ninja, there's only one inference to be made).You, on the other hand, predicated "they couldn't stop her", just because they didn't grab her doesn't mean they "couldn't stop her", you act as if they tried. There's no evidence of if they were trying, and if they were trying we have no idea of the speed of the other ANBU, there's so many holes in that speed attestation.



Secondly, you bring up "inconsistency." This is a common fallacy, in a fight it can go either way, it just happens you only have 1 or 2 legitimate dodges or punches that Tsunade landed, no matter how much you argue it doesn't outweigh my near 10. Also, Kabuto did enhance his Taijutsu skills, not in a speed way, why the hell would he need more speed when he dodged Tsunade's attack twice in a row beforehand? Soldier pill gives strength, for the last time.


Stop repeating that Manda feat, she came from behind, that's why she's facing Manda vertically. Manda isn't even looking in her direction, sneak attack. "Who cares if she got him from behind"? When will she get a chance like that one on one? This is a frontal battle. Not a Three v. One or Two v. One.

"They are on the same level"-The hell they are. Kabuto bopped her more times than she did to him(speedwise), she only hit him because he was fixing his glasses.

[Sagepain]

she only hit him because he was fixing his glasses.[/SIZE]

If Tsunade can hit kabuto in the short time it takes for kabuto to fix his glasses, she can hit Hidan in the long time it takes for him to Create his seal.

[Legend]

If Tsunade can hit kabuto in the short time it takes for kabuto to fix his glasses, she can hit Hidan in the long time it takes for him to Create his seal.

"Short-time", that's a speculation. Even if it was short, I'm pretty sure she should've had enough time, she was fairly close, regardless Hidan is attentive, as seen v. Kakashi.

[Wooster]

It didn't wear off on Kabuto. He was smart enough to figure out how to make his nerves work after a few seconds of thinking about it. At least that's what I remember from that fight.
Incorrect.

Kabuto did indeed figure out how to outsmart it, BUT if you paid attention it wore off and Kabuto fought even better after that.
Tsunade cuz she's hokage and smarter than hidan
Hidan is Akatsuki and smarter than Tsunade.

[chidoriroar]

hidan is a crazy moron. he has no one to help him. tsunade can use mitotic generation and tear him limb from limb. even if he draws blood from tsunade he wont have the time to use the seal, let alone make it. medics have good dodging skills so hidans attacks will have trouble reaching tsunade. the orochimaru fight showed almost none of the sanins feats. tsunade has much more potential

[Legend]

Hidan's intelligence is highly underrated, first of all you are degrading his intelligence based off of the fact that he got jobbed by Shikamaru. I wouldn't call him a moron for that at all. It's Shikamaru, give Hidan a break.

[Wooster]

Hidan's intelligence is highly underrated, first of all you are degrading his intelligence based off of the fact that he got jobbed by Shikamaru. I wouldn't call him a moron for that at all. It's Shikamaru, give Hidan a break.
Indeed. It should be noted that Hidan victories against Asuma, the Fire temple guy and the Two Tails where essentially by tricking them.

Is Tsuande any more intelligent than any of them?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Hidan's intelligence is highly underrated, first of all you are degrading his intelligence based off of the fact that he got jobbed by Shikamaru. I wouldn't call him a moron for that at all. It's Shikamaru, give Hidan a break.
He's not that intelligent.

Where in the manga has it EVER been proven that he has even a sliver or intelligence?

[Wooster]

He's not that intelligent.

Where in the manga has it EVER been proven that he has even a sliver or intelligence?
See above.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Indeed. It should be noted that Hidan victories against Asuma, the Fire temple guy and the Two Tails where essentially by tricking them.

Is Tsuande any more intelligent than any of them?

@Your statement about Hidan being Akatsuki:

He's not pulling the ropes. He's just listening to what his master tells him to do. He's played no active part in the decision making or plots at all.

He didn't trick Asuma. He caught him off guard with a Jutsu. Anyone can do that. Shikamaru did it to Madara, therefore Shikamaru >>>> Madara, right?

The Two Tails wasn't tricked either. She was lured.

[Wooster]

@Your statement about Hidan being Akatsuki:

He's not pulling the ropes. He's just listening to what his master tells him to do. He's played no active part in the decision making or plots at all.

He didn't trick Asuma. He caught him off guard with a Jutsu. Anyone can do that. Shikamaru did it to Madara, therefore Shikamaru >>>> Madara, right?

The Two Tails wasn't tricked either. She was lured.
Those are called synonyms.

Except Madara wasn't trapped. He escaped on his own did he not?

[Legend]

He's not that intelligent.

Where in the manga has it EVER been proven that he has even a sliver or intelligence?

The simple fact that he's immortal, that's what. Experimenting through religion, you have to be smart to attain immortality.

Furthermore, if he were that dumb, Kakashi would've killed Hidan via Kenjutsu, but did this happen? No.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Those are called synonyms.

Except Madara wasn't trapped. He escaped on his own did he not?
Yes he was. He was captured by shadow stitching.

That's called a synonym.
The simple fact that he's immortal, that's what. Experimenting through religion, you have to be smart to attain immortality.

Furthermore, if he were that dumb, Kakashi would've killed Hidan via Kenjutsu, but did this happen? No.

lol so now you're jumping to a conclusion. Get real.

Religion is based on beliefs, NOT intelligence.

And who's to say he wasn't born immortal?

[Legend]

Yes he was. He was captured by shadow stitching.

That's called a synonym.


lol so now you're jumping to a conclusion. Get real.

Religion is based on beliefs, NOT intelligence.

And who's to say he wasn't born immortal?

That may be true, there's two sides. The other side, is that he was atleast intelligent enough to understand the scripture, and acquire the 3-blade cythe.

But, we can't infer he was born immortal because it wasn't stated.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Can't infer what you're saying either.

[Lady Tsunade]

I'm not going to full response to you, It would be a waste of my time.

Waste of time/Cbf?

First off you call that a speed feat(430). People don't understand how to adduce a speed attestation. Give me a link of her location before and after landing. For instance, I would show Deidara evading Sasuke's attack, why is this legal? Because I have a page of where he was instantly before, and I have the page where the speed feat ended. Furthermore, you asserted Tsunade couldn't of been stopped by the ANBU, how did you infer this? Why didn't they manually take Tsunade by force if they were "trying to stop her", that makes no sense. What also doesn't make sense, is that Tsunade came out of nowhere, this is a connection to my previous post, about how legitimate speed attestations work, and yours doesn't.

I gave you a reference to where she was before jumping. And after. I proved that there was little more than a few seconds gap, so Tsunade had to have moved during that time. Her ANBU was right beside her initially, he did not notice her move until she landed beside Pein, this implies her speed. And again " by the time Tsunade tells Pein off, and Pein backtalks her, and Asura is fired at her - her ANBU guard, although jumping when Tsunade started to talk, has not even reached ground by the time Asura Path is right in front of her " .

These are the reasons why that speed feat is impermissible in a compendium:

1.No before and after direct locations in relation to anything

Except I have given those.

2.Leads to horrible inferences(the speed attestations I give you can discern the before and after location of the ninja, there's only one inference to be made).You, on the other hand, predicated "they couldn't stop her", just because they didn't grab her doesn't mean they "couldn't stop her", you act as if they tried. There's no evidence of if they were trying, and if they were trying we have no idea of the speed of the other ANBU, there's so many holes in that speed attestation.

The ANBU couldn't stop her, because he didn't realise she had even moved, and by the time he did, she had already stopped moving. If my wording confuses you, then I mean he was unable to stop her.

Secondly, you bring up "inconsistency." This is a common fallacy, in a fight it can go either way, it just happens you only have 1 or 2 legitimate dodges or punches that Tsunade landed, no matter how much you argue it doesn't outweigh my near 10. Also, Kabuto did enhance his Taijutsu skills, not in a speed way, why the hell would he need more speed when he dodged Tsunade's attack twice in a row beforehand? Soldier pill gives strength, for the last time.

It has no effect on physical strength. Soldier Pill lets you fight for days without stopping, according to the Databook. It increases stamina and chakra tremendously, meaning Kabuto never grew tired out and thus could move at the same speed throughout the entire match. Obviously that effected his taijutsu and reflexes. Your feats come from a time when Tsunade was fighting ICly, mine come from a time when she was Bloodlusted [ie. Blitzing Orochimaru and then using Creation Rebirth] , stabbing Manda and then delivering a powerful punch to Orochimarus jaw to ' end the match ' . Her increase in speed comes from her state of mind. She will be driven into such speed as Hidan becomes increasingly difficult to fight. In the same way if you were racing someone and they were significantly faster you would try your best to speed yourself up.

Stop repeating that Manda feat, she came from behind, that's why she's facing Manda vertically. Manda isn't even looking in her direction, sneak attack. "Who cares if she got him from behind"? When will she get a chance like that one on one? This is a frontal battle. Not a Three v. One or Two v. One.

What significance does that have on her speed at all? I could sneak up behind you at light speed, you could say you never saw me coming but the fact of the matter is I still moved at light speed. Point is she performed the feat before Manda closed his mouth. He never saw her coming but that doesn't matter, because I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did.

"They are on the same level"-The hell they are. Kabuto bopped her more times than she did to him(speedwise), she only hit him because he was fixing his glasses.

How many times must we go through this...

I'll go through this logically then:

Chapter 164 page 7, Kabuto takes the soldier pill and goes underground
Chapter 164 page 8 - Kabuto comes at Tsunade from beneath the ground, Tsunade dodges. Tsunade throws a punch, Kabuto dodges.
Chapter 164 page 9 - Tsunade throws a kick, Kabuto dodges, Kabuto gets behind Tsunade, Tsunade is aware of this.
Chapter 164 page 10 - As Tsunade turns around and tackles Kabuto he coats his hands with chakra scalpels, disabling Tsunades strength as she tackles him. They both reacted. Kabuto struck her because the nature of his jutsu, not because of any better speed,
Chapter 164 page 11 - Kabuto has disabled Tsunades strength, and cut her biceps and abdomen muscles, he runs at her, and quoting from the SFX ' Tsunade tries to dodge ' but she can't, because her muscles are torn.
Chapter 164 page 12 - Kabuto has hit Tsunades respiratory muscles, she struggles to breathe and is in pain. The moment Kabuto fixes his glasses, Tsunade already stood up, smacked Kabuto and ran past him. Note he barely registers what has happened as he's hit, and that Tsunade is severely injured. Perhaps Kabuto could've reacted if his eyes were open, but this is not about him reacting. Its about the speed Tsunade showed.
Chapter 164 page 13 - Kabuto is smacked onto the ground, He stands up and realises his body isn't functioning right. Tsunade is sitting down some distance away.
Chapter 164 page 14 - As he tries to figure his bodies movements, Tsunade runs at him and punches him.
Chapter 164 page 15 - Tsunade begins to heal herself. Kabuto praises her for being so skilled despite long years of inactivity. Orochimaru talks about Tsunades jutsu.
Chapter 164 page 16 - Kabuto works out how to move his body
Chapter 164 page 17 - Kabuto runs at Tsunade and tells her he's going slit his wrists to make her stop moving [He has knowledge on her phobia]
Chapter 164 page 18 - Jiraiya, Shizune and Naruto stop him.

Then

Chapter 165 page 3 - Tsunade knocks Jiraiya out of the way and runs at Kabuto
Chapter 165 page 4 - Kabuto slits his wrists, Tsunade is paralysed with fear. He hits Tsunade while she can't move.
- skipping this since its all irrelevant -
Chapter 166 page 15 - He hits Tsunade while again, she still can't move.

Now then, with that out of the way. Tell me, where did you get this idea that he's faster than her from?

[Nick Tasogare]

LT, just give up. His use of big words to make himself seem smart and correct even though he pretty much uses them horribly can't be beaten.

[Lady Tsunade]

Nickey, you know me =3 Stubborn bish. TSUNADETILLIDIE.

[Nick Tasogare]

You're Tsunade in your way, Kishi makes no mistakes, you're on the right track, baby Tsunade wins this day.

[Lady Tsunade]

SHE'S ON THE EDGE, OF GLOORY. AND SHE'S HANGIN' ON THIS MOMENT OF WIN. ;] Teehee

[Wooster]

Yes he was. He was captured by shadow stitching.

That's called a synonym.


lol so now you're jumping to a conclusion. Get real.

Religion is based on beliefs, NOT intelligence.

And who's to say he wasn't born immortal?If he was captured how did he get away?

Game. Set. Match.

[Legend]

Waste of time/Cbf?

Yes. A waste of my time. You were twisting the inferences, anyways read on please.



I gave you a reference to where she was before jumping. And after. I proved that there was little more than a few seconds gap, so Tsunade had to have moved during that time. Her ANBU was right beside her initially, he did not notice her move until she landed beside Pein, this implies her speed. And again " by the time Tsunade tells Pein off, and Pein backtalks her, and Asura is fired at her - her ANBU guard, although jumping when Tsunade started to talk, has not even reached ground by the time Asura Path is right in front of her " .

There was no predication that the ANBU was trying to stop her, she's the Hokage, they don't command her, she commands them.


Except I have given those.



The ANBU couldn't stop her, because he didn't realise she had even moved, and by the time he did, she had already stopped moving. If my wording confuses you, then I mean he was unable to stop her.

Once again, Tsunade is the Hokage, they aren't going to stop her, that would be dumb. They follow what she does, because they are her subordinates, additionally, as I've said before they would've taken her back. Your claim that they couldn't stop her, implies that they were trying to, which is baseless.



It has no effect on physical strength. Soldier Pill lets you fight for days without stopping, according to the Databook. It increases stamina and chakra tremendously, meaning Kabuto never grew tired out and thus could move at the same speed throughout the entire match. Obviously that effected his taijutsu and reflexes. Your feats come from a time when Tsunade was fighting ICly, mine come from a time when she was Bloodlusted , stabbing Manda and then delivering a powerful punch to Orochimarus jaw to ' end the match ' . Her increase in speed comes from her state of mind. She will be driven into such speed as Hidan becomes increasingly difficult to fight. In the same way if you were racing someone and they were significantly faster you would try your best to speed yourself up.

Rule#1: Don't look at the databook for information. Specifically, in the manga. We first see food pills used with Akamaru and Kiba, why? For more power ofcourse. Furthermore it was never [I]proven, that it sustains chakra. In fact, looking back at the scene where Kiba was in a dome with the Sasuke rescue squad, his chakra was dissipating, even when taking the pill. It doesn't sustain chakra, rather it gives you more strength, Kiba's Gatsuuga implicates sheer strength, not speed. Kabuto took the pills for more strength, as he would need it for a deeper sever, but failed to even do that.

Also, they both still dodged her two front attacks in the beginning, it doesn't matter.



What significance does that have on her speed at all? I could sneak up behind you at light speed, you could say you never saw me coming but the fact of the matter is I still moved at light speed. Point is she performed the feat before Manda closed his mouth. He never saw her coming but that doesn't matter, because I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did.

For starters, it does matter if he's fixing glasses, will Hidan fix his glasses?NO. The hell, lightspeed? They dodged two attacks in a row, there's no excuse for that, lightspeed my ass. She got bopped roughly three times by Kabuto, who is deficient in Taijutsu.

Here's what you are confusing:

A.You are trying to prove Tsunade can move at "X" speed.

Analysis: Your interpretation is invalid, isnofar as Manda was being "sneak attacked," therefore the speed at which she was going is inadmissible, isofar as she sneak attacked Manda. She will not "sneak attack" Hidan, because she has no diversions. Additionally, you can't say she moved at a "fast speed," because your argument rests on the fact that Manda couldn't react, however I refuted that claim, because Manda was being sneak attacked, therefore it's within reason of why, he couldn't react. Not because he saw her(when he didn't), but because he was being sneak attacked.



How many times must we go through this...

I'll go through this logically then:

Chapter 164 page 7, Kabuto takes the soldier pill and goes underground
Chapter 164 page 8 - Kabuto comes at Tsunade from beneath the ground, Tsunade dodges. Tsunade throws a punch, Kabuto dodges.
Chapter 164 page 9 - Tsunade throws a kick, Kabuto dodges, Kabuto gets behind Tsunade, Tsunade is aware of this.
Chapter 164 page 10 - As Tsunade turns around and tackles Kabuto he coats his hands with chakra scalpels, disabling Tsunades strength as she tackles him. They both reacted. Kabuto struck her because the nature of his jutsu, not because of any better speed,

Landing a hit, you need speed. "Nature", whatever you call it, is an unacceptable argument, isnofar as when touching an opponent, there is a reason that they didn't react, hence you are too fast. If I punch you, and you get hit, that is a speed attestation, "nature" is entirely different.

By the way, about Tsunade dodging from underground, it's easy to say once you see Kabuto use some application of Shunshin(Chapter 164 p.7). It's palpable Tsunade saw Kabuto use that Shunshin jutsu, so her evasion of it, I wouldn't ascribe all the credit to her.

You're right about Tsunade trading the blows, but Hidan would still chop her down with a sword, not a light-ass tap. And you won't make me change my mind about the blood thing, think whatever you want. But, until you refute this general scenario, then I won't change my mind:

"A guy gets in an elevator and he's claustrophobic, as soon as he gets out of the elevator he's still claustrophobic"



Chapter 164 page 11 - Kabuto has disabled Tsunades strength, and cut her biceps and abdomen muscles, he runs at her, and quoting from the SFX ' Tsunade tries to dodge ' but she can't, because her muscles are torn.
Chapter 164 page 12 - Kabuto has hit Tsunades respiratory muscles, she struggles to breathe and is in pain. The moment Kabuto fixes his glasses, Tsunade already stood up, smacked Kabuto and ran past him. Note he barely registers what has happened as he's hit, and that Tsunade is severely injured. Perhaps Kabuto could've reacted if his eyes were open, but this is not about him reacting. Its about the speed Tsunade showed.
Chapter 164 page 13 - Kabuto is smacked onto the ground, He stands up and realises his body isn't functioning right. Tsunade is sitting down some distance away.
Chapter 164 page 14 - As he tries to figure his bodies movements, Tsunade runs at him and punches him.
Chapter 164 page 15 - Tsunade begins to heal herself. Kabuto praises her for being so skilled despite long years of inactivity. Orochimaru talks about Tsunades jutsu.
Chapter 164 page 16 - Kabuto works out how to move his body
Chapter 164 page 17 - Kabuto runs at Tsunade and tells her he's going slit his wrists to make her stop moving [He has knowledge on her phobia]
Chapter 164 page 18 - Jiraiya, Shizune and Naruto stop him.

Then

Chapter 165 page 3 - Tsunade knocks Jiraiya out of the way and runs at Kabuto
Chapter 165 page 4 - Kabuto slits his wrists, Tsunade is paralysed with fear. He hits Tsunade while she can't move.
- skipping this since its all irrelevant -
Chapter 166 page 15 - He hits Tsunade while again, she still can't move.

Now then, with that out of the way. Tell me, where did you get this idea that he's faster than her from?

For starters, I'm disinclined, rather it's unnecessary to look at the feats after her biceps were torn, etc. However, she's inexcused from the feats beforehand, which she failed to pass.

Two attacks in a row-FAIL
Kaubto rolls around, then bops Tsunade on the arm-FAIL

[Lady Tsunade]

Yes. A waste of my time. You were twisting the inferences, anyways read on please.

Seemed like you were giving up because you cbf, excuse my opinion.





There was no predication that the ANBU was trying to stop her, she's the Hokage, they don't command her, she commands them.

Chapter 430 page 15. Seemed like he wanted to stop her to me.



Once again, Tsunade is the Hokage, they aren't going to stop her, that would be dumb. They follow what she does, because they are her subordinates, additionally, as I've said before they would've taken her back. Your claim that they couldn't stop her, implies that they were trying to, which is baseless.

Nope. Been through this already. He was trying to stop her, because he knew she was in no condition to fight. [Chapter 430 page 9] Also refer to page 15 I just gave you above.


Rule#1: Don't look at the databook for information. Specifically, in the manga. We first see food pills used with Akamaru and Kiba, why? For more power ofcourse. Furthermore it was never proven, that it sustains chakra. In fact, looking back at the scene where Kiba was in a dome with the Sasuke rescue squad, his chakra was dissipating, even when taking the pill. It doesn't sustain chakra, rather it gives you more strength, Kiba's Gatsuuga implicates sheer strength, not speed. Kabuto took the pills for more strength, as he would need it for a deeper sever, but failed to even do that.

Except that's being exceptionally biased. Yes, there are things in the Databook which are over exaggerated/incorrect. But there are also many things which are correct. In the same way that there are things that contradict each other in the manga, but there are also many things which are correct. Given that the Databook was written by Kishimoto, and that absoloutly nothing in the manga itself disproves my point about Food Pills, you are in no position to state that this information is false. Kiba took Food Pills. Kiba took Food Pills. Food Pills=/=Soldier Pills. They're different things.

Also, they both still dodged her two front attacks in the beginning, it doesn't matter.

Wut? Going by that logic then, since Tsunade dodged Kabutos initial attack from below, none of his other attacks matter.



For starters, it does matter if he's fixing glasses, will Hidan fix his glasses?NO. The hell, lightspeed? They dodged two attacks in a row, there's no excuse for that, lightspeed my ass. She got bopped roughly three times by Kabuto, who is deficient in Taijutsu.

...I was using lightspeed as an example..I did not say Tsunade was moving at lightspeed. She got bopped because she was immobilised or in no position to dodge for reasons already given, yet you jump to the assumption that it was because she was too slow. Despite me disproving this countless times

Here's what you are confusing:

I am not confusing anything.


A.You are trying to prove Tsunade can move at "X" speed.

Analysis: Your interpretation is invalid, isnofar as Manda was being "sneak attacked," therefore the speed at which she was going is inadmissible, isofar as she sneak attacked Manda. She will not "sneak attack" Hidan, because she has no diversions. Additionally, you can't say she moved at a "fast speed," because your argument rests on the fact that Manda couldn't react, however I refuted that claim, because Manda was being sneak attacked, therefore it's within reason of why, he couldn't react. Not because he saw her(when he didn't), but because he was being sneak attacked.

" because I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did." Look at the speed Tsunade moved at. She moved the giant sword off the ground and swung it before Manda snapped his mouth. Again - I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did.



Landing a hit, you need speed. "Nature", whatever you call it, is an unacceptable argument, isnofar as when touching an opponent, there is a reason that they didn't react, hence you are too fast. If I punch you, and you get hit, that is a speed attestation, "nature" is entirely different.

No, you are wrong. You can punch me in the face and I could still manage to grab a hold of your leg as I'm knocked backwards. Tsunade tackles into Kabuto and Kabuto taps her arm and leg with chakra scalpel as she does so. No one person was faster than the other. It was because of Kabutos jutsus ability that he did damage, not superior speed.

By the way, about Tsunade dodging from underground, it's easy to say once you see Kabuto use some application of Shunshin(Chapter 164 p.7). It's palpable Tsunade saw Kabuto use that Shunshin jutsu, so her evasion of it, I wouldn't ascribe all the credit to her.

For a start. Hiding like a Mole Technique=/=Shunshin no jutsu. And given that she had no knowledge on the technique, she had no idea where or what direction he would attack her from, and that she actually managed to jump before he grappled onto her leg, she gets no credit? Thats a load of rubbish and you know it.


You're right about Tsunade trading the blows, but Hidan would still chop her down with a sword, not a light-ass tap. And you won't make me change my mind about the blood thing, think whatever you want. But, until you refute this general scenario, then I won't change my mind:

He has a sythe, and he uses it to slash, it doesn't work well in cutting things in two like a sword. Then you're being ignorant, since I've clearly proven that since she saw and touched other peoples blood without trembling and becoming paralysed

"A guy gets in an elevator and he's claustrophobic, as soon as he gets out of the elevator he's still claustrophobic"

What happens when you have claustropobia? You freak out when you're in small spaces. " A guy get's in an elevator and he's claustrophobic, he freaks out. " - fixed. If he gets in the elevator and the small space doesn't bother him, he's not claustrophonic. If Tsunade has blood all over her, and she doesn't care at all, she's not hemophobic.



For starters, I'm disinclined, rather it's unnecessary to look at the feats after her biceps were torn, etc. However, she's inexcused from the feats beforehand, which she failed to pass.

To not look at those feats, would be extremely biased, since you're only focusing on the feats in which Kabuto hits Tsunade. And not vice versa, so no, its not unneccessary at all. We've gone through this hundreds of times. He can dodge her ICly. She can dodge him ICly. They were on the same level of speed ICly. BL Tsunade moves faster.

Two attacks in a row-FAIL
Kaubto rolls around, then bops Tsunade on the arm-FAIL

Tsunade lands two strikes on Kabuto in a row, so should we just suddenly ignore that his nervous system was messed up and be ignorant? Or that was fixing his glasses is ' irrelevant ' because he still couldn't have dodged? No. So we don't do that vice versa either.

Your logic - FAIL

[Shikamaru Nara]

Tsunade's never had a lust in the manga, how can you possibly say she moves faster?

[Lady Tsunade]

Read the argument. In the beginning her speed will only be around what she showed in her fight with Kabuto, [if not a bit higher since she was rusty] . Once Orochimaru pushed her to the limits she blitzes him, lifts Gamabuntas sword, many many times her own weight, swings it around in mid air and stabs Manda before he can snap his mouth. Snapping your mouth takes literally barely a second. And bare in mind how heavy the sword is, it was bound to slow her down. Yes it's a strength feat, but it's without a doubt a huge speed feat. Thus, Tsunade can move faster when she's really pushed to it. And given Hidans speed initially, I have no doubt she would be reduced to pushing herself.

EDIT: Though, please don't think that on average, Tsunade is in fact faster than Hidan. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that when she moves at her top speeds, she can very possibly strike a hit, and one hit is all she needs.

[Shikamaru Nara]

If he was captured how did he get away?

Game. Set. Match.

He was captured and THEN broke out.

[Legend]

Seemed like you were giving up because you cbf, excuse my opinion.


CBF? Give up? No, I didn't "give up", however, maybe I should because you are arguing against something indubitibal, furthermore your inferences
needs refinement.




Chapter 430 page 15. Seemed like he wanted to stop her to me.

There's an infinite # of reasons why he "dashed", towards Tsunade. Furthermore, he doesn't say "come back", or doesn't even inveigle her in the least bit to come back. That inference is based off of inappropriate evidence.



Nope. Been through this already. He was trying to stop her, because he knew she was in no condition to fight. [Chapter 430 page 9] Also refer to page 15 I just gave you above.


Again with the inferences and stretches, you are stretching the inferences.


Likely inference from p.9:Exactly what he said, there's no more meaning behind it. Further speculation is your own aloof opinion. Person Y says, "so and so did "so and so", I have no idea how you safely interpret this to mean, "he's making sure she stays back." I see where you were getting at, but it isn't a good interpretation. What you would need, is something like, "make sure she doesn't go anywhere", or "stay here", if you don't have that, then it's a useless inference. We need something substantially concrete/explicit, to go, "ok there it is." On your side, it's a stretchy inference. I'm not blaming you for thinking that way, but in this instant we need something explicit. For example, if I wanted to predicate Shee extols the Raikage, and finds him the best Kage, I wouldn't attest a page where he says, "Raikage is impossible to dodge", know why? Because it's a stretch, your inference was a stretch.


With p.15, there are a few problems with this. I'll only type up one problem, seeing as it is all I need to clean up the bad inference. You are claiming that ANBU X could not stop Tsunade, because he" never caught up to her." First of all, you need to open your eyes to more inferences and look at them. I'll tell you my reasonable inference. The man is an ANBU, his duty is to protect Tsunade, therefore he follows her where she goes. Ok, now that's my inference. If you want to prove what you want to prove, show me something where he says, something on the level of ,"Tsunade get back here." Another tidbit argument I'd like to throw in there is, "Why didn't the ANBU seize Tsunade?" This proves he doesn't care what she does, because she's the Hokage for f-king sake, and she can do whatever she wants to do.



Except that's being exceptionally biased. Yes, there are things in the Databook which are over exaggerated/incorrect. But there are also many things which are correct. In the same way that there are things that contradict each other in the manga, but there are also many things which are correct. Given that the Databook was written by Kishimoto, and that absoloutly nothing in the manga itself disproves my point about Food Pills, you are in no position to state that this information is false. Kiba took Food Pills. Kiba took Food Pills. Food Pills=/=Soldier Pills. They're different things.


"Written by Kishimoto"-The databook is a separate entity than the manga, understand that. Although the manga and databook are supposed to be supplements, the databook is nothing more substantial than the anime(insubstantial). In the manga, events that do not take place are not to be argued. Did we see X happen, or did we see Y can do this and this? If we never saw it, we are not to accept it. The databooks weren't created for debate, they were created for people to read. Well, why would one want to read? Well, I'll tell you Kishimoto wasn't planning on these hardcore debates, most likely he thought, "well I'll create this databook for readers' digest." People who don't debate read the databooks because they may have an obsession with Naruto, or they just like it, but it's all about money and views, not serving "debaters."

(The following passage does not directly address your argument, but furthers mine)


"Written by Kishimoto"-You need to understand the problem with this argument. Kishimoto is an author, he writes components of "literature." Having said that, he is bound by it's rules, whether it's first person, whatever. All english teachers(good ones) know what "Suspension of Disbelief" is. This is the concept, that the writer(Kishimoto) must(if he wants to write a good book) use actions that are accepted within a reasonable standard.




Wut? Going by that logic then, since Tsunade dodged Kabutos initial attack from below, none of his other attacks matter.


No. You probably forgot about that part in my argument. What I had said, was that Tsunade clearly saw Kabuto go "poof", into smoke, her dodging that attack isn't laudable in the least bit. Furthermore, (what I didn't address) those two were different situations, not like it matters, there's still my first argument.


8]
...I was using lightspeed as an example..I did not say Tsunade was moving at lightspeed. She got bopped because she was immobilised or in no position to dodge for reasons already given, yet you jump to the assumption that it was because she was too slow. Despite me disproving this countless times


"She was immobilized"-That's a proper rebuttal for events [FONT=Verdana]after being immobilized, not before.



I am not confusing anything.

Don't make me laugh.



" because I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did." Look at the speed Tsunade moved at. She moved the giant sword off the ground and swung it before Manda snapped his mouth. Again - I'm not trying to say Manda would've been incapable of reacting, I'm trying to say Tsunade moved at the speed that she did.


Lmao, well that's what you don't want to say. I'm saying that, as a rebuttal to your argument
.
" before Manda snapped his mouth."-Lady Tsunade
It looks as if you can properly present speed attestastions, so now that I quoted what you said, let me impugn it. The statement "before Manda snapped his mouth", is implying(if you are proving she is fast) that Manda was in capability of reacting, because if he wasn't, then your argument is invalid. On the other hand, I just said he was incapable of reacting, insofar she was behind him, and conducted sneak attack.




No, you are wrong. You can punch me in the face and I could still manage to grab a hold of your leg as I'm knocked backwards. Tsunade tackles into Kabuto and Kabuto taps her arm and leg with chakra scalpel as she does so. No one person was faster than the other. It was because of Kabutos jutsus ability that he did damage, not superior speed.


Even though that's wrong, I should rephrase. You were partially right, about the nature, however in this particular instance it's wrong, another problem is that you nevver attested speed. My ability to hit you depends on "my ability to move," and essentially how fast I am. It has more to do with how fast I am, because if I best my opponent in speed I can hit them every time. A Taijutsu master can't dodge light, do you know why? Because light is too fast, it moves at 300 million meters per second. So speed matters.


My next segment of the rebuttal, is that Kabuto's initial hit was a light tap. You addressed the nature issue, and I'll concede that pays trivial impetus to a scenario, however tapping someone(with an open palm) and stabbing, or even punching someone have entirely different speeds. You will always be able to punch faster, or stab someone faster, than you are open palm-thrusting someone(even though it's a small fraction between punch and palm, stabbing someone is greater than the latter, in this scenario Hidan stabs someone, or strikes them with a sword). This is true, because tadaa-air molecules. The more air molecules you are touching the less momentum or force something has when striking. With an open palm, the height of your hand is aligned with the # of air molecules you come in contact with, with a punch, only your fist's size is coming into contact with a certain amount of air molecules. The less air molecules, the less impedent that there is=the faster the strike goes. Since Hidan has a three-blade scythe, it's to his advantage. There are three blades, so getting hit is easy, and because it's so long, the tip reaches faster.



For a start. Hiding like a Mole Technique=/=Shunshin no jutsu. And given that she had no knowledge on the technique, she had no idea where or what direction he would attack her from, and that she actually managed to jump before he grappled onto her leg, she gets no credit? Thats a load of rubbish and you know it.

Really, go look at the page again, There's a hole in the ground. Furthermore, Shunshin usually does appear like that, Kabuto's jutsu was a propogation of Shunshin, similar to Kawarimi no Jutsu, (see Kabuto v. Tsunade), (Gaara v. Lee), (Jiraiya v. Pain).


He has a sythe, and he uses it to slash, it doesn't work well in cutting things in two like a sword. Then you're being ignorant, since I've clearly proven that since she saw and touched other peoples blood without trembling and becoming paralysed

Are you serious? Calling Hidan's scythe dull?? The main prupose of his sword is to draw blood off of the flesh of someone's skin, which he so easily does in the sereis, as seen! Why refute that? Can you? No, it's a fact.



What happens when you have claustropobia? You freak out when you're in small spaces. " A guy get's in an elevator and he's claustrophobic, he freaks out. " - fixed. If he gets in the elevator and the small space doesn't bother him, he's not claustrophonic. If Tsunade has blood all over her, and she doesn't care at all, she's not hemophobic.

Not exactly, you lied. She never bled after the instant she used Mitotic Regeneration, therefore there wasn't opportunity to see if there was an actual change or not.


To not look at those feats, would be extremely biased, since you're only focusing on the feats in which Kabuto hits Tsunade. And not vice versa, so no, its not unneccessary at all. We've gone through this hundreds of times. He can dodge her ICly. She can dodge him ICly. They were on the same level of speed ICly. BL Tsunade moves faster.

A.I'm looking at Kabuto's feats, which involve Tsunade's. Ofcourse I'm not lauding her, when she doesn't deserve to be lauded. I already explained my positions. My last point, I will re-promulgate, is that you have to be fast to land a hit on your opponent. That's irrefutable. I can't be slow as a snail(Tsunade), have Pai Mei's fighting skills, and expect to beat someone.



Tsunade lands two strikes on Kabuto in a row, so should we just suddenly ignore that his nervous system was messed up and be ignorant? Or that was fixing his glasses is ' irrelevant ' because he still couldn't have dodged? No. So we don't do that vice versa either.
Your logic - FAIL

No-You are a curmudgeon. We can clearly see what happened.

First, Kabuto fixes his glasses.

1.Inferences

i.Kabuto is not Hidan, therefore there is no glasses needed "fixing."

ii. If Kabuto didn't fix his glasses, he wouldn't of been hit. Why can I infer this? Because he proved his evasive skills beforehand.

Your inference doesn't make any since, because you never address the seriousness of it. Nor do you connect it with Hidan, Hidan will be a much harder situation than Kabuto.

[Uchiha Sora]

CBF? Give up? No, I didn't "give up", however, maybe I should because you are arguing against something indubitibal, furthermore your inferences
needs refinement.



There's an infinite # of reasons why he "dashed", towards Tsunade. Furthermore, he doesn't say "come back", or doesn't even inveigle her in the least bit to come back. That inference is based off of inappropriate evidence.





Again with the inferences and stretches, you are stretching the inferences.


Likely inference from p.9:Exactly what he said, there's no more meaning behind it. Further speculation is your own aloof opinion. Person Y says, "so and so did "so and so", I have no idea how you safely interpret this to mean, "he's making sure she stays back." I see where you were getting at, but it isn't a good interpretation. What you would need, is something like, "make sure she doesn't go anywhere", or "stay here", if you don't have that, then it's a useless inference. We need something substantially concrete/explicit, to go, "ok there it is." On your side, it's a stretchy inference. I'm not blaming you for thinking that way, but in this instant we need something explicit. For example, if I wanted to predicate Shee extols the Raikage, and finds him the best Kage, I wouldn't attest a page where he says, "Raikage is impossible to dodge", know why? Because it's a stretch, your inference was a stretch.


With p.15, there are a few problems with this. I'll only type up one problem, seeing as it is all I need to clean up the bad inference. You are claiming that ANBU X could not stop Tsunade, because he" never caught up to her." First of all, you need to open your eyes to more inferences and look at them. I'll tell you my reasonable inference. The man is an ANBU, his duty is to protect Tsunade, therefore he follows her where she goes. Ok, now that's my inference. If you want to prove what you want to prove, show me something where he says, something on the level of ,"Tsunade get back here." Another tidbit argument I'd like to throw in there is, "Why didn't the ANBU seize Tsunade?" This proves he doesn't care what she does, because she's the Hokage for f-king sake, and she can do whatever she wants to do.





"Written by Kishimoto"-The databook is a separate entity than the manga, understand that. Although the manga and databook are supposed to be supplements, the databook is nothing more substantial than the anime(insubstantial). In the manga, events that do not take place are not to be argued. Did we see X happen, or did we see Y can do this and this? If we never saw it, we are not to accept it. The databooks weren't created for debate, they were created for people to read. Well, why would one want to read? Well, I'll tell you Kishimoto wasn't planning on these hardcore debates, most likely he thought, "well I'll create this databook for readers' digest." People who don't debate read the databooks because they may have an obsession with Naruto, or they just like it, but it's all about money and views, not serving "debaters."

(The following passage does not directly address your argument, but furthers mine)


"Written by Kishimoto"-You need to understand the problem with this argument. Kishimoto is an author, he writes components of "literature." Having said that, he is bound by it's rules, whether it's first person, whatever. All english teachers(good ones) know what "Suspension of Disbelief" is. This is the concept, that the writer(Kishimoto) must(if he wants to write a good book) use actions that are accepted within a reasonable standard.




No. You probably forgot about that part in my argument. What I had said, was that Tsunade clearly saw Kabuto go "poof", into smoke, her dodging that attack isn't laudable in the least bit. Furthermore, (what I didn't address) those two were different situations, not like it matters, there's still my first argument.





"She was immobilized"-That's a proper rebuttal for events [FONT=Verdana]after being immobilized, not before.




Don't make me laugh.





Lmao, well that's what you don't want to say. I'm saying that, as a rebuttal to your argument
.
" before Manda snapped his mouth."-Lady Tsunade
It looks as if you can properly present speed attestastions, so now that I quoted what you said, let me impugn it. The statement "before Manda snapped his mouth", is implying(if you are proving she is fast) that Manda was in capability of reacting, because if he wasn't, then your argument is invalid. On the other hand, I just said he was incapable of reacting, insofar she was behind him, and conducted sneak attack.




Even though that's wrong, I should rephrase. You were partially right, about the nature, however in this particular instance it's wrong, another problem is that you nevver attested speed. My ability to hit you depends on "my ability to move," and essentially how fast I am. It has more to do with how fast I am, because if I best my opponent in speed I can hit them every time. A Taijutsu master can't dodge light, do you know why? Because light is too fast, it moves at 300 million meters per second. So speed matters.


My next segment of the rebuttal, is that Kabuto's initial hit was a light tap. You addressed the nature issue, and I'll concede that pays trivial impetus to a scenario, however tapping someone(with an open palm) and stabbing, or even punching someone have entirely different speeds. You will always be able to punch faster, or stab someone faster, than you are open palm-thrusting someone(even though it's a small fraction between punch and palm, stabbing someone is greater than the latter, in this scenario Hidan stabs someone, or strikes them with a sword). This is true, because tadaa-air molecules. The more air molecules you are touching the less momentum or force something has when striking. With an open palm, the height of your hand is aligned with the # of air molecules you come in contact with, with a punch, only your fist's size is coming into contact with a certain amount of air molecules. The less air molecules, the less impedent that there is=the faster the strike goes. Since Hidan has a three-blade scythe, it's to his advantage. There are three blades, so getting hit is easy, and because it's so long, the tip reaches faster.




Really, go look at the page again, There's a hole in the ground. Furthermore, Shunshin usually does appear like that, Kabuto's jutsu was a propogation of Shunshin, similar to Kawarimi no Jutsu, (see Kabuto v. Tsunade), (Gaara v. Lee), (Jiraiya v. Pain).



Are you serious? Calling Hidan's scythe dull?? The main prupose of his sword is to draw blood off of the flesh of someone's skin, which he so easily does in the sereis, as seen! Why refute that? Can you? No, it's a fact.




Not exactly, you lied. She never bled after the instant she used Mitotic Regeneration, therefore there wasn't opportunity to see if there was an actual change or not.



A.I'm looking at Kabuto's feats, which involve Tsunade's. Ofcourse I'm not lauding her, when she doesn't deserve to be lauded. I already explained my positions. My last point, I will re-promulgate, is that you have to be fast to land a hit on your opponent. That's irrefutable. I can't be slow as a snail(Tsunade), have Pai Mei's fighting skills, and expect to beat someone.




No-You are a curmudgeon. We can clearly see what happened.

First, Kabuto fixes his glasses.

1.Inferences

i.Kabuto is not Hidan, therefore there is no glasses needed "fixing."

ii. If Kabuto didn't fix his glasses, he wouldn't of been hit. Why can I infer this? Because he proved his evasive skills beforehand.

Your inference doesn't make any since, because you never address the seriousness of it. Nor do you connect it with Hidan, Hidan will be a much harder situation than Kabuto.



/attempts to read post
/gets dizzy
/dies

[Legend]

/attempts to read post
/gets dizzy
/dies

Oh well, it's as I'd expected, it was intented for Lady Tsunade lol. I'm not offended, o.o.

[RINNEMAN1]

Tsunade doesn't need to kill Hidan just incapitate him. Tsuande also doesn't have to be much faster then Hidan, because Hidan isn't blitzing Tsuande here. IC and No knowledge means Hidan is dumb, and he won't know that close combat is a bad idea when fighting tsunade because she'll just overpower him.

Tsunade can run toward him, punch the ground to throw him off balance and then get in for a kick or punch that will shatter his bones. He's incapitated so tsunade wins the fight.

Incapacitating him is the only way she wins

She knocks his head clean off due to her crazy strength.

They are actually pretty close. I think more distance and Hidan has a chance

[medlnic15]

hidan, it depends it really would be close