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NAGATO_PAIN
05-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Discuss! Its out!

lolohwd
05-11-2011, 10:13 AM
Yay a flashback!(flashback supporter)

naruto kyubi staring contest ftw

Sagepain
05-11-2011, 10:18 AM
The best part was the very last page, Loved how he just Stepped on top of the kyuubi's mouth and stared directly at his eye.

Ishtar
05-11-2011, 10:25 AM
Page 11, middle panel:
The symbol of combat and the lock of harmony. I totally see that happening with Naruto and Sasuke.

Wooster
05-11-2011, 10:30 AM
Naruto: Want to play, boy? Wanna play? Who's a good fox?
/opens cage

Nine Tail Fox: *pant* *pant* *jumps*

Naruto: Come on lets go! =D

/Nine Tail Fox steps out of cage

Naruto: Psyche!

/drops cage door on his poor little fox's head

Nine Tail Fox: *whimper*
Naruto: :lol:

Parak111
05-11-2011, 10:39 AM
Nice to see Sasuke again. Kishi never gets tired of NaruSasu it seems.:lol: Especially flashbacks.

I just loved how Naruto abused the Kyuubi like it was some toy. Since when did Naruto become so dominative?http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/hurr.gif

JazzJunkie4
05-11-2011, 10:50 AM
So I guess then naruto and sasuke are still technically friends since after they did the rasengan chidori clash at the end of part 1 it showed them making that symbol.

tsuki
05-11-2011, 11:13 AM
Interesting, but not exciting. We need more war!

mrsticky005
05-11-2011, 11:16 AM
Looks like Iruka is the cause of the NaruSasu shennanigans.

Kreegah!!!
05-11-2011, 11:34 AM
Flashback wasn't as terrible as I was expecting it to be. Are we done now? Can we progress the present yet?

Poodle
05-11-2011, 11:58 AM
practically filler episode to keep us in suspense~

Phariah824
05-11-2011, 12:10 PM
was an ok chap for a flashback. could have been shortened some to give more present day info though. i loved him staring down the fox.

i think that is gonna help him later on. the fox is gonna realize it has to team up w/ Naruto for self preservation. it will accept the bonding seeing how strong Naruto has become i think.

deidara330
05-11-2011, 01:27 PM
So I guess then naruto and sasuke are still technically friends since after they did the rasengan chidori clash at the end of part 1 it showed them making that symbol.I was beginning to wonder if anyone would notice that.practically filler episode to keep us in suspense~See above. Flashback couldn't possibly be filler since it just doubled the meaning of the end of Naruto VS Sasuke in Part 1.

Shikamaru Nara
05-11-2011, 01:27 PM
Not as good as the previous ones.

mrsticky005
05-11-2011, 01:31 PM
Flashback wasn't as terrible as I was expecting it to be. Are we done now? Can we progress the present yet?

Hear hear!

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Man......this chapter kinda left me disappointed. It almost looked like Kishi was driving towards Naruto and the fox making an alliance then he just took it away. You all may disagree but I would like to see them be more cooperative. Flash back was a little lengthy with unimportant factors but other than that it was a pretty good chapter.

Wooster
05-11-2011, 01:56 PM
At least only half the chapter is a flashback.

For some reason I can't get enough of the Nine-Tailed Fox. He reminds me of a twisted Danzo. >.>

Danielle
05-11-2011, 02:02 PM
It is a welcome respite from TenTen's incessant whining. Though, it still was just a rehash of what has been done before, how many times can we drone on and on about Sasuke's hate? >.>

Wooster
05-11-2011, 02:03 PM
TenTen's whining?
Don't you mean failing?

Taker369
05-11-2011, 02:06 PM
kinda a lame chapter filled with flashbacks all the way through can we get on with the war ?

Danielle
05-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Whining, failing-it is essentially the same. Doesn't a failure whine an awful lot?

zerosameri
05-11-2011, 02:08 PM
Sasuke! That's all I basically have to say for this :lol:

Wooster
05-11-2011, 02:08 PM
They can, but TenTen never whines about her short commings.
If anything, she is a nagger.

Danielle
05-11-2011, 02:09 PM
No way, Sakura is way more of a nagger than TenTen. Was that not TenTen whining about exhaustion?

Poodle
05-11-2011, 02:11 PM
I was beginning to wonder if anyone would notice that.See above. Flashback couldn't possibly be filler since it just doubled the meaning of the end of Naruto VS Sasuke in Part 1.


I didn't notice Sasuke and Naruto doing that fingershake when they clashed. All i remember is Naruto and Sasuke clashing, a huge explosion, and both being knocked unconscious. I'm not saying it didn't happen i just didn't remember.

I'm also skeptical on how they're going to incorporate that into Naruto saving Sasuke, since there has to be much more to it given how little Sasuke cares for their friendship now. I don't think it would be crucial to Sasuke changing, more than maybe a final acknowledgement in the very, very end.

Kreegah!!!
05-11-2011, 02:17 PM
I was beginning to wonder if anyone would notice that.See above. Flashback couldn't possibly be filler since it just doubled the meaning of the end of Naruto VS Sasuke in Part 1.

Except that I recall they were their younger selves making the mark of harmony at that VotE fight, yes? Which could actually mean the reverse: that the friendship is beyond salvaging. Maybe Naruto will break Destiny's back, but as things are going, the Fox and Jiraiya are right in regards to Sasuke.

GwynethUchiha
05-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Naruto looked evil for a minute there it kinda scared me 0_0

deidara330
05-11-2011, 02:39 PM
I don't get the complaining. In my opinion, the flashback added more depth to the story. Iruka described the symbol of harmony, which he said signified after a spar that the two fighters remained comrades. After Naruto and Sasuke's fight ended, an image of them making this symbol was shown. Even though Sasuke left, they remained comrades.

And I don't get why some people are upset over more emphasis on Sasuke's hatred when this was better than pretty much most of what's been done so far. When Sasuke joined Team 7, his family had been dead for several years. When he fought Naruto in this flashback, it had been a much shorter period of time. There was no point in this chapter where you couldn't see the hatred in Sasuke's eyes. I think it goes to show that after spending even a short time with Team 7, and Naruto in particular, Sasuke really did change.

I felt the comparison Naruto made couldn't have put it better. "Those eyes... The same eyes that everyone looks at me with, but more intense... And he's not looking at me." People look at Naruto with eyes of hatred and disdain, like they wish he didn't exist. Sasuke looks at Itachi like he wants to kill him. He was looking at someone else and all he could see was Itachi. All he could ever think about was how much he wanted to murder his own brother.

Aside from Naruto and Sasuke, the chapter showed more of the rookies from the Academy. I particularly noticed Choji's comment that he wouldn't fight his friend. Years and years later, forced to fight his own sensei... He could hardly spar with his own friends. He had to grow up.Except that I recall they were their younger selves making the mark of harmony at that VotE fight, yes? Which could actually mean the reverse: that the friendship is beyond salvaging. Maybe Naruto will break Destiny's back, but as things are going, the Fox and Jiraiya are right in regards to Sasuke.Well, actually, it was more of a top view, so it could've been present day. If it means something like that, I'd think it instead was a flashback signifying how they used to be comrades and now their friendship was broken. Could also have been Sasuke recalling their time as comrades and then deciding not to kill Naruto.

My view is that Sasuke didn't kill Naruto because he couldn't kill his friend and came up with the excuse at a later time. He'd already admitted several times by then that he'd come close to Naruto and Team 7, and had already risked their lives for them. Sasuke hated Itachi, and he wanted revenge. However, he only left the village for the power to kill Itachi. If he could've reached the same level of power at the Leaf, he would've, and in fact he would never have broken his ties to Naruto or anyone else in the village. However, he was convinced going to Orochimaru was the only way to get strong enough to kill Itachi. His friendship with Naruto did mean something to him, just not as much as killing Itachi.

However, I honestly believe that he always intended to return to the Leaf Village. Sasuke's not an idiot. If he thought about it for more than five seconds he'd realize that even if he killed Itachi he'd have nowhere to go and no one to be with. I think that he always intended to return after he killed Itachi, because even he should've known that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi would accept him back as a Leaf shinobi even after he'd left the village. He could've gone back at any time, and he always had the chance. I feel that Naruto's seemingly failed attempts at getting Sasuke back were actually necessary for Sasuke to keep the feeling that he'd have somewhere to go once his mission of revenge was over.

Sadly, Sasuke knows the truth and he wants to kill everyone in Konoha, but I still feel it's Madara's doing. Personally, whenever he talks about wanting to crush the Leaf, it almost sounds like he's mouthing out Madara's will. If you'll recall, his clan went against him after he opposed Hashirama's leadership and he's hated the Leaf ever since, in fact he tried a direct attack on it once and was actually plotting revenge after that had failed. I truly think that he's using his Sharingan to manipulate Sasuke's confusion and hatred so he can take his own personal revenge on the Leaf through Sasuke.

Even his fight with Danzo was almost directly beneficial to Madara, as Madara had wanted Shisui's eye and would've had it if Danzo didn't crush it. He also had one less nuiscance to worry about thanks to that.

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 03:17 PM
@deidara 330......sorry. I couldn't make myself read your massive wall of text.:lol:. I agree there was some substance to the flashback. I think it was important. My only complaint is that kishi waisted to much page space with it by weighing it down with unnecessary things. I would rather the flashback had been more brief w/o the unnecessary stuff. That space could have been geared more toward Naruto and the Kyuubi's discussion.

Vornmusion
05-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Ugh, how utterly boring. This was nothing that hasn't already been explored upon in the past. All it gave us was another till-now-irrelevant symbolic meaning to an already known and explored issue.
/Yawn

Are we done now? Can we progress the present yet?

I sure hope so.

For some reason I can't get enough of the Nine-Tailed Fox. He reminds me of a twisted Danzo. >.>

Calling his premature death now.

kalmeast
05-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Naruto Uzumaki is Becoming cooler and cooler each time. I'm glad he rejected the Nine-tail's offer...It's not like naruto to ask for help any ways.
Kishi is gonna drag this on so much the world is gonna end before he knows it...

NaruHina fan
05-11-2011, 03:48 PM
I completely forgot that there was a new chapter of Naruto out until I saw this thread XD
I found this chapter pretty boring and the Naruto and Sasuke flashback pointless, the constant talk about Sasuke's hatred is getting to be a little too much for me.

JazzJunkie4
05-11-2011, 03:55 PM
I don't get the complaining. In my opinion, the flashback added more depth to the story. Iruka described the symbol of harmony, which he said signified after a spar that the two fighters remained comrades. After Naruto and Sasuke's fight ended, an image of them making this symbol was shown. Even though Sasuke left, they remained comrades.

And I don't get why some people are upset over more emphasis on Sasuke's hatred when this was better than pretty much most of what's been done so far. When Sasuke joined Team 7, his family had been dead for several years. When he fought Naruto in this flashback, it had been a much shorter period of time. There was no point in this chapter where you couldn't see the hatred in Sasuke's eyes. I think it goes to show that after spending even a short time with Team 7, and Naruto in particular, Sasuke really did change.

I felt the comparison Naruto made couldn't have put it better. "Those eyes... The same eyes that everyone looks at me with, but more intense... And he's not looking at me." People look at Naruto with eyes of hatred and disdain, like they wish he didn't exist. Sasuke looks at Itachi like he wants to kill him. He was looking at someone else and all he could see was Itachi. All he could ever think about was how much he wanted to murder his own brother.

Aside from Naruto and Sasuke, the chapter showed more of the rookies from the Academy. I particularly noticed Choji's comment that he wouldn't fight his friend. Years and years later, forced to fight his own sensei... He could hardly spar with his own friends. He had to grow up.Well, actually, it was more of a top view, so it could've been present day. If it means something like that, I'd think it instead was a flashback signifying how they used to be comrades and now their friendship was broken. Could also have been Sasuke recalling their time as comrades and then deciding not to kill Naruto.

My view is that Sasuke didn't kill Naruto because he couldn't kill his friend and came up with the excuse at a later time. He'd already admitted several times by then that he'd come close to Naruto and Team 7, and had already risked their lives for them. Sasuke hated Itachi, and he wanted revenge. However, he only left the village for the power to kill Itachi. If he could've reached the same level of power at the Leaf, he would've, and in fact he would never have broken his ties to Naruto or anyone else in the village. However, he was convinced going to Orochimaru was the only way to get strong enough to kill Itachi. His friendship with Naruto did mean something to him, just not as much as killing Itachi.

However, I honestly believe that he always intended to return to the Leaf Village. Sasuke's not an idiot. If he thought about it for more than five seconds he'd realize that even if he killed Itachi he'd have nowhere to go and no one to be with. I think that he always intended to return after he killed Itachi, because even he should've known that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi would accept him back as a Leaf shinobi even after he'd left the village. He could've gone back at any time, and he always had the chance. I feel that Naruto's seemingly failed attempts at getting Sasuke back were actually necessary for Sasuke to keep the feeling that he'd have somewhere to go once his mission of revenge was over.

Sadly, Sasuke knows the truth and he wants to kill everyone in Konoha, but I still feel it's Madara's doing. Personally, whenever he talks about wanting to crush the Leaf, it almost sounds like he's mouthing out Madara's will. If you'll recall, his clan went against him after he opposed Hashirama's leadership and he's hated the Leaf ever since, in fact he tried a direct attack on it once and was actually plotting revenge after that had failed. I truly think that he's using his Sharingan to manipulate Sasuke's confusion and hatred so he can take his own personal revenge on the Leaf through Sasuke.

Even his fight with Danzo was almost directly beneficial to Madara, as Madara had wanted Shisui's eye and would've had it if Danzo didn't crush it. He also had one less nuiscance to worry about thanks to that.

:shock:
I read it all and I have to say I agree to all of it. As you pointed out, one of the things that really made this flashback worthwhile for me was when naruto said sasuke wasn't looking at him. Glad you mentioned this.

deidara330
05-11-2011, 04:00 PM
I completely forgot that there was a new chapter of Naruto out until I saw this thread XD
I found this chapter pretty boring and the Naruto and Sasuke flashback pointless, the constant talk about Sasuke's hatred is getting to be a little too much for me.Constant talk? This is the first time it's been mentioned in over 20 chapters.

HachibiXSenpai
05-11-2011, 04:05 PM
awesome chapter since naruto made it win for me :)

i agree above, i'm getting tired with peoples complainats about wanting more fighting and yet they complain about that too. haterz gonna hate -_-

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 04:29 PM
I agree. the story would suck if it were constant fighting. do ppl want a story or a ppv event?

But I still say this chapter would've been much better if Naruto/kyuubi dialogue was much longer and the flashback was much shorter and to the point. Still was a pretty good chapter tho.

Yori
05-11-2011, 04:42 PM
The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Edit: Also this chapter shows Harashima & Madara most likely had the same rivalry-friendship Sasuke & Naruto has.

Rotate
05-11-2011, 04:46 PM
The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Edit: Also this chapter shows Harashima & Madara most likely had the same rivalry-friendship Sasuke & Naruto has.

That's because Naruto shreaded his man-card as soon as he was able to control the nine-tail's chakra.

deidara330
05-11-2011, 04:49 PM
The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Edit: Also this chapter shows Harashima & Madara most likely had the same rivalry-friendship Sasuke & Naruto has.But doesn't it even out with the badassedness Naruto gains from that, in some sense? Naruto's response to the Nine-Tails words about hatred consuming him really gives him a look I've never seen on him. For once, Naruto's actually serious about kicking major ass. Naruto's been at his best this arc.

How so?

Vornmusion
05-11-2011, 04:49 PM
The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.

Used to think of him like a tsunami or hurricane. I.E A natural disaster, which I know people have referred to the fox as, now he's just another oversized talking animal for all it's worth. Such a shame.

Kreegah!!!
05-11-2011, 05:31 PM
awesome chapter since naruto made it win for me :)

i agree above, i'm getting tired with peoples complainats about wanting more fighting and yet they complain about that too. haterz gonna hate -_-

Many of us here (in this thread) made little to no mention of wanting more fights. We just want something new.

I agree. the story would suck if it were constant fighting. do ppl want a story or a ppv event?

But I still say this chapter would've been much better if Naruto/kyuubi dialogue was much longer and the flashback was much shorter and to the point. Still was a pretty good chapter tho.

Not in total agreement, but this essentially sums up the chapter. More time with 9T, less in flashbacks. I understand having 9T actually showing some intelligence and also seeking to bring light to Naruto's "folly"--grounding him in reality--but did the flashback really have to be even 1/3 its size now? Seems to me like Kishi was just padding out the pages. That either means the next bit of the story would be too large to cram in with this one, or that he has writer's block and hadn't thought out the next bit yet, requiring some filler. If it's the former, maybe he should petition his editor to extend the average page count :lol:; but if it is the latter, nothing can really be suggested aside from asking his helpers for ideas.:shock:

Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.

Used to think of him like a tsunami or hurricane. I.E A natural disaster, which I know people have referred to the fox as, now he's just another oversized talking animal for all it's worth. Such a shame.

Eh, well, I like him better a little less impersonal and useless and more so as a character... but you're right. Naruto's one-up on 9T was a bit too much. And now he's an animal abuser.:eek:

Vornmusion
05-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Eh, well, I like him better a little less impersonal and useless and more so as a character... but you're right. Naruto's one-up on 9T was a bit too much. And now he's an animal abuser.:eek:

I preferred him as simply a "force". It set the fox apart from the other oversized animals and even the other tailed beasts. After all, prior to this ten tailed crap, the fox was supposed to be the most powerful. I liked the fox being by all appearances--a demon or "force" of chakra. I have never once seen any theory or fanfic or anything else that ever did the fox correctly when humanizing it. In my opinion, Kishi has done no better in his attempt. But whatever.

I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime.

Xibitz360
05-11-2011, 06:05 PM
Agreed not ad interesting as the other chapters but still good.

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 06:22 PM
I preferred him as simply a "force". It set the fox apart from the other oversized animals and even the other tailed beasts. After all, prior to this ten tailed crap, the fox was supposed to be the most powerful. I liked the fox being by all appearances--a demon or "force" of chakra. I have never once seen any theory or fanfic or anything else that ever did the fox correctly when humanizing it. In my opinion, Kishi has done no better in his attempt. But whatever.

I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime. __________________no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.

Rikudo Sennin
05-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Flashbacks and talks, quite interesting but nevertheless Naruto being a flashlight was better.

Wooster
05-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Calling his premature death now.
Another lost opportunity. Can you imagine if Danzo became the Nine Tails jinchuriki? Their discussions of hate, no all emotions, duty, war and all great matters of the human soul would last for all times.

Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....b~(

Hando Craap
05-11-2011, 07:22 PM
It looks like I may be wrong about the Naruto/9-tail alliance I stated weeks ago.Naruto may just keep him on a very tight leash and kick butt his own way.It would make a better ending than letting the 9-tail decide if he would stay in Naruto or be a slave then cease to exist in Madara's plan's....hhhmmmmm?!???

narulvr
05-11-2011, 07:56 PM
Boy oh boy naruto's becoming a BAMF, yeah the kyuubi lost his swag in this chap but naruto gained alot. It's nice to have them talkin even though it was no fightin the dialog was enuf to keep me entertained.

Namikaze_Naruto
05-11-2011, 08:07 PM
Yori (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=2948): The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Vornmusion (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=21109): Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.You point out that 9T was a force of nature, well that was before he had half of his chakra sealed in the Death Reaper and the remaining half taken from him and now commanded by Naruto. Naruto is now the force of nature, which is why he was able to toy with the fox like that. It doesn't take anything away from 9T, if anything this may be the way Naruto 'tames' 9T so that they work in unison. Not sold on that happening, but what better way to pound the pure mass of hatred into submission than showing that kindness/love is much much more powerful (lame I know, but more implying 9T surrendering to Naruto's power more so than his ideals).


Edit: Also this chapter shows Harashima & Madara most likely had the same rivalry-friendship Sasuke & Naruto has. Are you implying that somehow this chapter overrides Madara's background story? That the two warring mercenary clans (which were completely seperate from each other before the founding of Konoha, as shinobi at those time were organized solely by clan) that constantly battled each other somehow had leaders who were friends? The people Madara hated because they were viewed by the world as the better of the two clans. The people he took his brother's eyes from in order to defeat, only to then be unable to defeat them. The person who he has stated he hated the most. Aside from bloodlines, this is not a parallel to Naruto and Sasuke's relationship (that was shown by Jiraiya and Orochimaru), as Sasuke doesn't even acknowledge Naruto.

I am curious as to how Sasuke is going to react when he finds out that Madara was lying to him, specifically about the 9T incident. I imagine at some point Naruto will bring up that he met his parents, which will make Sasuke realize Naruto actually can empathize with him for losing his family as he has met them and come to know their sacrifice. He will then learn that Madara instigated the 9T attack, which was the final straw that lead to the eradication of the Uchiha, so he will realize that it is actually Madara's fault that his clan was wiped out.

I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime.I am starting to believe that this rivalry is going to take the route of the Goku/Vegeta rivalry (which is not the same cycle as all average rivalvies in manga/anime as you insinuate), where at the end Sasuke finally acknowledges Naruto due to his overwhelming power, and with the knowledge of the past mentioned above either turns to the side of good in the battle against Madara and/or Kabuto, or has his powers transferred to Naruto either by dying or via Itachi's gift somehow. Through this Naruto will have literally taken his hatred upon himself, and therefore Sasuke will have been saved and Naruto's nindo/ambitions are achieved.

Namikaze_Naruto
05-11-2011, 08:17 PM
This chapter also brings up another interesting point, in that what if Naruto's chakra does have an affect on 9T? Karin said that his chakra is incredibly warm and bright (special chakra anyone....:D), and incredibly large compared to virtually the rest of the shinobi world. So maybe 9T taking some of it leads to part of Naruto being implanted in him. When 9T had the larger chakra levels and Naruto borrowed some of it, he took on the 9T eyes. With the situation in reverse now (Naruto having the larger chakra levels and 9T borrowing/stealing it), I'd assume that it is going to work the other way around somehow.

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 08:25 PM
^ hadn't thought of that. Makes sense. I very much doubt Kishi's gonna take that road tho (unfortunately).

Vornmusion
05-11-2011, 08:31 PM
no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters are only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.

Exactly what has happened. There has never really once be a time that I didn't already know what was going to happen in a broad sense in Naruto because Kishi consistently follows typical plot devices. I knew he would tame the fox to the point of accessing it's power without much effort from the first time it was said Naruto had the fox inside him. This medium does it all the time. I mean honestly, did anyone for a second think Goku wasn't going to become a SSJ when the term was first brought into the story? Naruto and the fox are the same thing, it just took longer to come to pass. I was hoping Kishi would prove me wrong with that extremely obvious plot line, as well as the one with Sasuke. But alas he didn't. Expecting the worst is what I do, it doesn't mean I have to be happy when it comes to pass.

None of that changes anything. It's meta reasons for existing doesn't change the fact that the fox has been humanized as the series progressed and I don't care for it. It was nice in the beginning having something that was unrelateable to. It means existence can operate on a higher field than our own. Humanizing that force just erases this dynamic. The ten tails is the only thing left keeping this dynamic alive. However, unlike the fox, I don't care about the ten tails because it was a last minute addition to the journey.

EvL j3st3r
05-11-2011, 08:51 PM
Exactly what has happened. There has never really once be a time that I didn't already know what was going to happen in a broad sense in Naruto because Kishi consistently follows typical plot devices. I knew he would tame the fox to the point of accessing it's power without much effort from the first time it was said Naruto had the fox inside him. This medium does it all the time. I mean honestly, did anyone for a second think Goku wasn't going to become a SSJ when the term was first brought into the story? Naruto and the fox are the same thing, it just took longer to come to pass. I was hoping Kishi would prove me wrong with that extremely obvious plot line, as well as the one with Sasuke. But alas he didn't. Expecting the worst is what I do, it doesn't mean I have to be happy when it comes to pass.

I see your point here. I mean it is kinda typical....but so are most readers. I'm one of those typical readers I guess bc I couldn't wait to see Goku go Super Saiyan or to see Naruto own the fox's power. I mean not seeing the antagonist and protagonist eventually reach maximum potential just wouldn't allow the story to climax. It would leave a lot of readers wanting more. I do respect your desire to see something less typical tho. That's understandable. But I have to disagree with what you said about Naruto getting the fox's power without much effort.

None of that changes anything. It's meta reasons for existing doesn't change the fact that the fox has been humanized as the series progressed and I don't care for it. It was nice in the beginning having something that was unrelateable to. It means existence can operate on a higher field than our own. Humanizing that force just erases this dynamic. The ten tails is the only thing left keeping this dynamic alive. However, unlike the fox, I don't care about the ten tails because it was a last minute addition to the journey.See I have to disagree again. There's really nothing more than pure opinion to a matter like this, but I think (just as some have already stated) that the dynamic your referring to has simply been transferred and now just has to be viewed in a different light.....where as you feel it has been completely erased. But again, you have to think about the toll it would take on the climax of the story if Kishi had done things more in the direction you were hoping for. I mean how could it ever meet the climax that the story's built up with that direction?

PlatonicZombie
05-11-2011, 09:20 PM
Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....b~(

Not that you care, but you have officially won me over with this comment! haha!!

Anyways, I don't understand why everyone is upset over Naruto handling the fox like he did. It basically is just an over grown animal right now. Naruto has seperated it's chakra from its will remember? Not to mention he's faced his darkness and overcome it. So, Naruto man handling the Fox should be no surprise. To me, I do think Naruto gets some bad ass points for doing that just because it's kind of out of character for him to do that. I enjoyed the chapter. It's making things that have happened relavent now. Ahhhhh! Closure! `:)

jesse uzumaki
05-11-2011, 10:49 PM
I love this chapter naruto has finally grown into a serious ninja and taken things serious he finally the character I always wanted him to be. I glad he no longer a ingnorant fool or a stupid kid that can't stay still for more than 1 second.

he finally grew balls.

as for naruto handleing nine tails it was ok for naruto to do that it's not like he broke the kyuubi nose or killed the kyuubi. he only smacked him in the face just like dog when it bites you or pees in the carpet. kishi did that to show off naruto power now. which clearly shows naruto becoming far more powerful.

I do still hope too see naruto and kyuubi teaming up together and making naruto much stronger and have a relationship like bee and the bull octobus jenjuriki.

Marajsky
05-12-2011, 04:48 AM
I don't get the complaining. In my opinion, the flashback added more depth to the story. Iruka described the symbol of harmony, which he said signified after a spar that the two fighters remained comrades. After Naruto and Sasuke's fight ended, an image of them making this symbol was shown. Even though Sasuke left, they remained comrades.

And I don't get why some people are upset over more emphasis on Sasuke's hatred when this was better than pretty much most of what's been done so far. When Sasuke joined Team 7, his family had been dead for several years. When he fought Naruto in this flashback, it had been a much shorter period of time. There was no point in this chapter where you couldn't see the hatred in Sasuke's eyes. I think it goes to show that after spending even a short time with Team 7, and Naruto in particular, Sasuke really did change.

I felt the comparison Naruto made couldn't have put it better. "Those eyes... The same eyes that everyone looks at me with, but more intense... And he's not looking at me." People look at Naruto with eyes of hatred and disdain, like they wish he didn't exist. Sasuke looks at Itachi like he wants to kill him. He was looking at someone else and all he could see was Itachi. All he could ever think about was how much he wanted to murder his own brother.

Aside from Naruto and Sasuke, the chapter showed more of the rookies from the Academy. I particularly noticed Choji's comment that he wouldn't fight his friend. Years and years later, forced to fight his own sensei... He could hardly spar with his own friends. He had to grow up.Well, actually, it was more of a top view, so it could've been present day. If it means something like that, I'd think it instead was a flashback signifying how they used to be comrades and now their friendship was broken. Could also have been Sasuke recalling their time as comrades and then deciding not to kill Naruto.

My view is that Sasuke didn't kill Naruto because he couldn't kill his friend and came up with the excuse at a later time. He'd already admitted several times by then that he'd come close to Naruto and Team 7, and had already risked their lives for them. Sasuke hated Itachi, and he wanted revenge. However, he only left the village for the power to kill Itachi. If he could've reached the same level of power at the Leaf, he would've, and in fact he would never have broken his ties to Naruto or anyone else in the village. However, he was convinced going to Orochimaru was the only way to get strong enough to kill Itachi. His friendship with Naruto did mean something to him, just not as much as killing Itachi.

However, I honestly believe that he always intended to return to the Leaf Village. Sasuke's not an idiot. If he thought about it for more than five seconds he'd realize that even if he killed Itachi he'd have nowhere to go and no one to be with. I think that he always intended to return after he killed Itachi, because even he should've known that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi would accept him back as a Leaf shinobi even after he'd left the village. He could've gone back at any time, and he always had the chance. I feel that Naruto's seemingly failed attempts at getting Sasuke back were actually necessary for Sasuke to keep the feeling that he'd have somewhere to go once his mission of revenge was over.

Sadly, Sasuke knows the truth and he wants to kill everyone in Konoha, but I still feel it's Madara's doing. Personally, whenever he talks about wanting to crush the Leaf, it almost sounds like he's mouthing out Madara's will. If you'll recall, his clan went against him after he opposed Hashirama's leadership and he's hated the Leaf ever since, in fact he tried a direct attack on it once and was actually plotting revenge after that had failed. I truly think that he's using his Sharingan to manipulate Sasuke's confusion and hatred so he can take his own personal revenge on the Leaf through Sasuke.

Even his fight with Danzo was almost directly beneficial to Madara, as Madara had wanted Shisui's eye and would've had it if Danzo didn't crush it. He also had one less nuiscance to worry about thanks to that.


I TOTALLY agree with you, all this is Madara's doing!!!

Poodle
05-12-2011, 06:36 AM
lol who cares if Naruto finally stood up to the 9 tails? Its such a small part of whats going on its amazing some of you think its as big a deal. Its not anyone elses fault some of you have seen way too many animes or shows that parallel this, but either way Naruto had to grow up some time and he's showing that now. We've steadily been watching him train with Bee and little by little displays of what he can do now, and this is another step to Naruto becoming a bad ass. To think he'd always be subservient or scared of his 9 tails is what would have been silly.

soranthalas
05-12-2011, 07:15 AM
Man......this chapter kinda left me disappointed. It almost looked like Kishi was driving towards Naruto and the fox making an alliance then he just took it away. You all may disagree but I would like to see them be more cooperative. Flash back was a little lengthy with unimportant factors but other than that it was a pretty good chapter.

Yeah, but I can't see winning over the fox happening in 5 minutes. That should be a major gain and should take a fair bit more effort.

Kreegah!!!
05-12-2011, 07:34 AM
no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.

Oh, I'm certain the 9T is far beyond the other biju, 8T being a possible exception. On their own, the beasts were considered instinctual and lacking personality--mere chakra forces if you will, but unlike the kyuubi who has been described as a force of menace--indicating a core of reasoning intent. On that side I can see why the fox is now capable of being humanized, but Vornnegut is right in calling the direction cliche.

Another lost opportunity. Can you imagine if Danzo became the Nine Tails jinchuriki? Their discussions of hate, no all emotions, duty, war and all great matters of the human soul would last for all times.

Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....b~(

Thought it the moment I saw it. :D

It isn't philosophy; it's an absolute TRUTH.

lol who cares if Naruto finally stood up to the 9 tails? Its such a small part of whats going on its amazing some of you think its as big a deal. Its not anyone elses fault some of you have seen way too many animes or shows that parallel this, but either way Naruto had to grow up some time and he's showing that now. We've steadily been watching him train with Bee and little by little displays of what he can do now, and this is another step to Naruto becoming a bad ass. To think he'd always be subservient or scared of his 9 tails is what would have been silly.

It's prevalent in ALL media, not just shows. And it's not our fault; it is Kishi's--he has stated in several places he watches tons of shows and movies to get a feel for timing in story structure. Instead of using that knowledge to create something unique, he is just aping the blueprints.

Wooster
05-12-2011, 07:37 AM
Oh, I'm certain the 9T is far beyond the other biju, 8T being a possible exception. On their own, the beasts were considered instinctual and lacking personality--mere chakra forces if you will, but unlike the kyuubi who has been described as a force of menace--indicating a core of reasoning intent. On that side I can see why the fox is now capable of being humanized, but Vornnegut is right in calling the direction cliche.





It's prevalent in ALL media, not just shows. And it's not our fault; it is Kishi's--he has stated in several places he watches tons of shows and movies to get a feel for timing in story structure. Instead of using that knowledge to create something unique, he is just aping the blueprints.So you agree. Kishi should read more Greek literature.

Poodle
05-12-2011, 09:30 AM
Oh, I'm certain the 9T is far beyond the other biju, 8T being a possible exception. On their own, the beasts were considered instinctual and lacking personality--mere chakra forces if you will, but unlike the kyuubi who has been described as a force of menace--indicating a core of reasoning intent. On that side I can see why the fox is now capable of being humanized, but Vornnegut is right in calling the direction cliche.



Thought it the moment I saw it. :D

It isn't philosophy; it's an absolute TRUTH.



It's prevalent in ALL media, not just shows. And it's not our fault; it is Kishi's--he has stated in several places he watches tons of shows and movies to get a feel for timing in story structure. Instead of using that knowledge to create something unique, he is just aping the blueprints.


but its such a very small almost benign thing to criticize that is a natural progression of things. Its like me saying "its so predictable Naruto is going to fight Sasuki in the end and sway him with the power of friendship", Kishi is being so generic to the other animes.

I just don't see how thats such a deal to some.

nightwolf613
05-12-2011, 11:47 AM
Thought it was interesting but I was hoping for something different. Like Naruto and Bee meet up with Tsunade, etc.

Vornmusion
05-12-2011, 11:48 AM
but its such a very small almost benign thing to criticize that is a natural progression of things. Its like me saying "its so predictable Naruto is going to fight Sasuki in the end and sway him with the power of friendship", Kishi is being so generic to the other animes.

I just don't see how thats such a deal to some.

Because some people have standards. Most people that read manga, do not have them. If they did, manga wouldn't be be as popular and sell as well as it does being filled with such generic crap.

Kreegah!!!
05-12-2011, 12:55 PM
So you agree. Kishi should read more Greek literature.

Of course. And Hammurabi's laws, too.

I should also amend the list of beast exceptions to Shukaku as well. I'm sure on its own the 1T was powerful yet weaker than the others by a wide margin. However, as the Sunagakure only had one bijuu (compared to Stone and Cloud having two apiece) they needed to amplify it's power some. I'm guessing, based on what very little Kishi's given us (through the eyes and mouths of Gamabunta and Granny Chiyo) that either a host was experimented on itself by the Kage's men, or was subsumed yet not entirely overcome by the 1T. At first I thought it was ret-con for the Jinchuuriki plot line, but now I wonder if there's more to it. Perhaps the guy (can't remember what he was--a priest? A vicar? Who knows?) "melded" with the 1T, giving it some, albeit little, sentience beyond raw instinct. This gave the 1T more focus, and subsequent hosts--while eventually driven insane in ways apparently not suffered by other biju-carriers--were granted more power and control. But this wildly tangential, so ignore this.

(Yes, I do have more I could say.)

but its such a very small almost benign thing to criticize that is a natural progression of things. Its like me saying "its so predictable Naruto is going to fight Sasuki in the end and sway him with the power of friendship", Kishi is being so generic to the other animes.

I just don't see how thats such a deal to some.

Small is inconsequential when it remains one thing in both form and quantity. But like a virus or a cascade of "small" bills, the problems accrue and become a significant threat. In this case, too many cliche plot lines will cripple the story's creative flow and risk a loss of interest by the masses.

Because some people have standards. Most people that read manga, do not have them. If they did, manga wouldn't be be as popular and sell as well as it does being filled with such generic crap.

The worst part is that he's shown the potential to make this something awesome and unique, but does not always choose to deliver on that front.

As to manga in general, we both know that extends into every medium available. Publishers need to learn to say NO with more frequency.

EvL j3st3r
05-12-2011, 01:20 PM
Yeah, but I can't see winning over the fox happening in 5 minutes. That should be a major gain and should take a fair bit more effort.
I said form an alliance, not become friends (which of course, would be more drawn out). But what I'm referring to isn't really "winning the fox over". It's just the fox realizing what's best for him. It would be in his best interest to cooperate with Naruto bc if Naruto looses.........the Kyuubi ceases to exist.

Kakuzu
05-12-2011, 01:22 PM
Meh, not very interesting... Just Naruto telling off the Nine-Tails...


I wonder when the former Jinchuriki's will launch their attacks? We haven't seen them at all.

Poodle
05-12-2011, 02:01 PM
Because some people have standards. Most people that read manga, do not have them. If they did, manga wouldn't be be as popular and sell as well as it does being filled with such generic crap.


Well personally i hate the manga readers that expect main characters to die all of the time just because its out of the norm for most shows, or it supposedly makes something more hardcore. Its a big reason why early part of Claymore turned me off and if it kept going that way no way i'd have kept reading it.

But regarding the 9Tails, it was inevitable Naruto would grow up and take charge, if not foster a relationship with it like Bee has. Of course Naruto is scared and the 9Tails is bullying him when he was less secure of himself. Its to me a natural progression where its as normal as someone growing into an adult.

whatever tho. Anyone can interpret it how they want, just disagreeing with you all...

Wind Style Naruto
05-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.

Used to think of him like a tsunami or hurricane. I.E A natural disaster, which I know people have referred to the fox as, now he's just another oversized talking animal for all it's worth. Such a shame.

Well Naruto did steal the source of all of his power and now he is powerless.

To me I find this chapter humorous with Naruto failing to diss Sasuke and Shino and Kiba responding in an very humorous.

Also Naruto tricking the Nine Tails like that made me lol.

This flashback is somewhat relevant as it shows Naruto and Sasuke's first encounter and build up to thier final fight. It even showed that at Day 1 Sasuke has always had the darkness in him.

So Naruto is a flashlight.

Vornmusion
05-12-2011, 02:22 PM
The worst part is that he's shown the potential to make this something awesome and unique, but does not always choose to deliver on that front.

As to manga in general, we both know that extends into every medium available. Publishers need to learn to say NO with more frequency.

Indeed. Every time he's ever had something that could of been unique and interesting, he crushed it. Does the same thing with interesting characters by killing them off at their prime.

Truth enough, it's just that other mediums suffer a huge backlash from this in comparison to manga. The most disgusting part of it though is that despite these backlashes, the masses continue to pay for lackluster movies, novels, manga, video games, music, whatever. Thus insuring that they keep getting the very thing many of whom consider garbage now. Such is the cycle of stupidity mixed with capitalism I guess.

Someone once told me the motto of the world is "Stupid things for stupid people". I dare say he may not be far off in that assessment. But I'm going horribly off-topic now.

It even showed that at Day 1 Sasuke has always had the darkness in him.

Something that has been well known to anyone paying the slightest attention to....well the amount of times this has been clearly established is so numerous now that it's part of the main reason these flashbacks are so utterly pointless from a critical readers perspective.

If there's one thing Kishi fails very hard at, it's being subtle in direct and indirect context. The fact he uses such typical plot devices only makes this more so.

iMario999
05-12-2011, 03:01 PM
Quite boring but nice.

Kreegah!!!
05-12-2011, 03:43 PM
I said form an alliance, not become friends (which of course, would be more drawn out). But what I'm referring to isn't really "winning the fox over". It's just the fox realizing what's best for him. It would be in his best interest to cooperate with Naruto bc if Naruto looses.........the Kyuubi ceases to exist.

Nah, he just reforms elsewhere after a while. But it's obviously painful because Kyuubi works so hard to avoid it.:D

Meh, not very interesting... Just Naruto telling off the Nine-Tails...


I wonder when the former Jinchuriki's will launch their attacks? We haven't seen them at all.

Naruto TNJ's all of them.:mrgreen:

Well personally i hate the manga readers that expect main characters to die all of the time just because its out of the norm for most shows, or it supposedly makes something more hardcore. Its a big reason why early part of Claymore turned me off and if it kept going that way no way i'd have kept reading it.

But regarding the 9Tails, it was inevitable Naruto would grow up and take charge, if not foster a relationship with it like Bee has. Of course Naruto is scared and the 9Tails is bullying him when he was less secure of himself. Its to me a natural progression where its as normal as someone growing into an adult.

whatever tho. Anyone can interpret it how they want, just disagreeing with you all...

I don't want them all knocked off either, but we are far from that extreme--so far, in fact, that your argument is moot.:shock:

Indeed. Every time he's ever had something that could of been unique and interesting, he crushed it. Does the same thing with interesting characters by killing them off at their prime.

Truth enough, it's just that other mediums suffer a huge backlash from this in comparison to manga. The most disgusting part of it though is that despite these backlashes, the masses continue to pay for lackluster movies, novels, manga, video games, music, whatever. Thus insuring that they keep getting the very thing many of whom consider garbage now. Such is the cycle of stupidity mixed with capitalism I guess.

Someone once told me the motto of the world is "Stupid things for stupid people". I dare say he may not be far off in that assessment. But I'm going horribly off-topic now.



Something that has been well known to anyone paying the slightest attention to....well the amount of times this has been clearly established is so numerous now that it's part of the main reason these flashbacks are so utterly pointless from a critical readers perspective.

If there's one thing Kishi fails very hard at, it's being subtle in direct and indirect context. The fact he uses such typical plot devices only makes this more so.

OK, WoTS Boy II, here we go... Ready for the long-winded reply?

Albert Einstein mentioned that the level of intelligence in the universe remains constant. Too bad our population's growing. It also means we won't see "intelligent life" from extra-solar areas because they are having their intelligence sapped, too.bo.o"`:shock:

Sparky
05-12-2011, 03:48 PM
Generic story elements?


I don't read much manga and anime but what generic elements that Naruto that is common in most other Shonen and please give examples of other Shonen anime besides Naruto.

Ur Mom
05-12-2011, 04:46 PM
I don't get the complaining. In my opinion, the flashback added more depth to the story. Iruka described the symbol of harmony, which he said signified after a spar that the two fighters remained comrades. After Naruto and Sasuke's fight ended, an image of them making this symbol was shown. Even though Sasuke left, they remained comrades.

And I don't get why some people are upset over more emphasis on Sasuke's hatred when this was better than pretty much most of what's been done so far. When Sasuke joined Team 7, his family had been dead for several years. When he fought Naruto in this flashback, it had been a much shorter period of time. There was no point in this chapter where you couldn't see the hatred in Sasuke's eyes. I think it goes to show that after spending even a short time with Team 7, and Naruto in particular, Sasuke really did change.

I felt the comparison Naruto made couldn't have put it better. "Those eyes... The same eyes that everyone looks at me with, but more intense... And he's not looking at me." People look at Naruto with eyes of hatred and disdain, like they wish he didn't exist. Sasuke looks at Itachi like he wants to kill him. He was looking at someone else and all he could see was Itachi. All he could ever think about was how much he wanted to murder his own brother.

Aside from Naruto and Sasuke, the chapter showed more of the rookies from the Academy. I particularly noticed Choji's comment that he wouldn't fight his friend. Years and years later, forced to fight his own sensei... He could hardly spar with his own friends. He had to grow up.Well, actually, it was more of a top view, so it could've been present day. If it means something like that, I'd think it instead was a flashback signifying how they used to be comrades and now their friendship was broken. Could also have been Sasuke recalling their time as comrades and then deciding not to kill Naruto.

My view is that Sasuke didn't kill Naruto because he couldn't kill his friend and came up with the excuse at a later time. He'd already admitted several times by then that he'd come close to Naruto and Team 7, and had already risked their lives for them. Sasuke hated Itachi, and he wanted revenge. However, he only left the village for the power to kill Itachi. If he could've reached the same level of power at the Leaf, he would've, and in fact he would never have broken his ties to Naruto or anyone else in the village. However, he was convinced going to Orochimaru was the only way to get strong enough to kill Itachi. His friendship with Naruto did mean something to him, just not as much as killing Itachi.

However, I honestly believe that he always intended to return to the Leaf Village. Sasuke's not an idiot. If he thought about it for more than five seconds he'd realize that even if he killed Itachi he'd have nowhere to go and no one to be with. I think that he always intended to return after he killed Itachi, because even he should've known that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi would accept him back as a Leaf shinobi even after he'd left the village. He could've gone back at any time, and he always had the chance. I feel that Naruto's seemingly failed attempts at getting Sasuke back were actually necessary for Sasuke to keep the feeling that he'd have somewhere to go once his mission of revenge was over.

Sadly, Sasuke knows the truth and he wants to kill everyone in Konoha, but I still feel it's Madara's doing. Personally, whenever he talks about wanting to crush the Leaf, it almost sounds like he's mouthing out Madara's will. If you'll recall, his clan went against him after he opposed Hashirama's leadership and he's hated the Leaf ever since, in fact he tried a direct attack on it once and was actually plotting revenge after that had failed. I truly think that he's using his Sharingan to manipulate Sasuke's confusion and hatred so he can take his own personal revenge on the Leaf through Sasuke.

Even his fight with Danzo was almost directly beneficial to Madara, as Madara had wanted Shisui's eye and would've had it if Danzo didn't crush it. He also had one less nuiscance to worry about thanks to that.
+rep dude
This chapter also brings up another interesting point, in that what if Naruto's chakra does have an affect on 9T? Karin said that his chakra is incredibly warm and bright (special chakra anyone....:D), and incredibly large compared to virtually the rest of the shinobi world. So maybe 9T taking some of it leads to part of Naruto being implanted in him. When 9T had the larger chakra levels and Naruto borrowed some of it, he took on the 9T eyes. With the situation in reverse now (Naruto having the larger chakra levels and 9T borrowing/stealing it), I'd assume that it is going to work the other way around somehow.
:lol: So he's being Naruto-ized

EvL j3st3r
05-12-2011, 05:42 PM
Does the same thing with interesting characters by killing them off at their prime.that I can agree with. Kimmimaru's style and ability are my favorite in the manga but, unfortunately, his time was very short lived. That's a shame. And he was automatically trolled by not being 100% during his time in the story....due to being deathly ill.
Zabuza and Haku are some more of my favorites who where just taken away as soon as they appeared.
Nah, he just reforms elsewhere after a while. But it's obviously painful because Kyuubi works so hard to avoid it.:DIf Naruto dies the Kyuubi dies. It was thought early in the story that the fox was just a natural disaster that forms under certain circumstances due to the evil of ppl or something like that (can't remember exactly) but then we found out different. It wasn't a natural disaster that struck Konoha. the fox was unleashed on the village by Madara...so (for me) the kyuubi spontaniously forming goes out the window right along with him being a "natural disaster".

But that's not what I was talking about anyway. Madara wants to extract the Kyuubi and revive the Juubi. If that happens, I asume it would be the same as death for the fox bc he would ,in a sense, cease to exist as himself. He would become part of the Ten tails.

sharingangirl
05-12-2011, 06:02 PM
I liked this one. Naruto is so close to ending that I don't really mind the flashbacks. I also like how Naruto took charge in this one, and the "wait, he's not looking at me.". I love this stuff, because I'm such a huge character reader that I love stuff like this.

soranthalas
05-12-2011, 06:38 PM
I said form an alliance, not become friends (which of course, would be more drawn out). But what I'm referring to isn't really "winning the fox over". It's just the fox realizing what's best for him. It would be in his best interest to cooperate with Naruto bc if Naruto looses.........the Kyuubi ceases to exist.

Well, that is sorta obvious. He's known that for a while. And he's loaned Naruto some power in part because of this, and in part because he was hoping to take over. But for the Kyuubi to become an ally, Naruto's going to have to convince the Kyuubi that Naruto's way really can work. If he comes to that conclusion, Naruto will have won him over and that's the next step. Not the fox grudgingly giving him power now and then because he "has to".

EvL j3st3r
05-12-2011, 07:46 PM
Well, that is sorta obvious. He's known that for a while. And he's loaned Naruto some power in part because of this, and in part because he was hoping to take over. But for the Kyuubi to become an ally, Naruto's going to have to convince the Kyuubi that Naruto's way really can work. If he comes to that conclusion, Naruto will have won him over and that's the next step. Not the fox grudgingly giving him power now and then because he "has to".
right. that's why this chapter left me disappointed (even tho it was still pretty good). I thought ,at first, that Kishi was going that direction with it (kyuubi seeing that Naruto's way could work and then becoming allies with a common enemy). Then that path just got taken away (at least for now).

But no, I wasn't referring to times like the past where the fox grudgingly gives his power. He doesn't need him to "give" it now anyways. He owns it. But it would definitely help if the fox was cooperative so they could fight as a team and Naruto doesn't have to worry about the fox drawing his chakra dry while he's in RS mode.

Kreegah!!!
05-13-2011, 06:16 AM
that I can agree with. Kimmimaru's style and ability are my favorite in the manga but, unfortunately, his time was very short lived. That's a shame. And he was automatically trolled by not being 100% during his time in the story....due to being deathly ill.
Zabuza and Haku are some more of my favorites who where just taken away as soon as they appeared.
If Naruto dies the Kyuubi dies. It was thought early in the story that the fox was just a natural disaster that forms under certain circumstances due to the evil of ppl or something like that (can't remember exactly) but then we found out different. It wasn't a natural disaster that struck Konoha. the fox was unleashed on the village by Madara...so (for me) the kyuubi spontaniously forming goes out the window right along with him being a "natural disaster".

But that's not what I was talking about anyway. Madara wants to extract the Kyuubi and revive the Juubi. If that happens, I asume it would be the same as death for the fox bc he would ,in a sense, cease to exist as himself. He would become part of the Ten tails.

Zabuza and Haku I lament, but they took up an entire arc, so at least we got to see something.:mrgreen:

I am not referring to the biju wive's tales. I'm talking about when Chiyo (I think) was talking about how a host dying kills the bijuu, but the Bijuu doesn't stay permanently dead, it manifests (eventually) elsewhere, back as a mindless beast--which could accurately be described as an elemental force anyway. This is likely why RS did what he did--the Juubi may have been indestructible and undying. Only sealing it piece by piece inside the Reaper would result in any permanent solution--that or dividing it's strength and letting it see the world through other's eyes. It was clearly stated that they never stay dead. Unless Madara extracted Mist boy's bijuu, this also explains why it was running feral and hostless. It also explains that easily overlooked comment early on that this wasn't the first time Akatsuki was attempting to gather all the bijuu.:shock:

I have the feeling you're going to make me dig up all this info, too, aren't you?`:shock::mrgreen:

Poodle
05-13-2011, 08:18 AM
Nah, he just reforms elsewhere after a while. But it's obviously painful because Kyuubi works so hard to avoid it.:D



Naruto TNJ's all of them.:mrgreen:



I don't want them all knocked off either, but we are far from that extreme--so far, in fact, that your argument is moot.:shock:



OK, WoTS Boy II, here we go... Ready for the long-winded reply?

Albert Einstein mentioned that the level of intelligence in the universe remains constant. Too bad our population's growing. It also means we won't see "intelligent life" from extra-solar areas because they are having their intelligence sapped, too.bo.o"`:shock:

my point was a lot more than you just addressed. More specifically how Naruto taking charge over 9tails IS a natural progression. To act like its a generic storyline is pretty silly but whatever...

that point about killing off main characters was just an example of what some manga readers tend to think of as "not generic" storylines, that IMO isn't really all that enjoyable to follow in many cases.

Rezeon
05-13-2011, 09:28 AM
One of the aspects of the chapter that some people seem to be glossing over was Kyuubi's warning that Naruto was just repeating Nagato's mistakes.

If you recall, when Nagato was a kid he said his biggest concern was protecting his friends and that he would bear any hardship to help them. Well we all know how well that went.

Kyuubi made a pretty good point that Naruto stands a good chance of being overwhelmed by the hatred that he is trying to take onto himself. Considering that Kyuubi is a living embodiment of hate, it makes sense that he would understand the scope of what Naruto is about to be bombarded with.

Naruto has never dealt with personal loss very well, we saw it in the Haku fight, him finding out about Jiraiya's death, and when Pain struck down Hinata. If Kishi has any balls at all, at least one person Naruto cares about is going to be seriously hurt in the near future and we will see if Naruto has really changed or not. (my money is on Tsunade)


As for Kyuubi's portrayal...

When Naruto entered the cage I thought he was going to try and coax Kyuubi into doing the symbol of harmony with him... but alas Naruto instead decided to assert his current dominance.

I'm really not shocked by Kyuubi getting handled like some common pet though. Naruto already took away his bite, so all he has left is his bark.

Kreegah!!!
05-13-2011, 09:34 AM
my point was a lot more than you just addressed. More specifically how Naruto taking charge over 9tails IS a natural progression. To act like its a generic storyline is pretty silly but whatever...

that point about killing off main characters was just an example of what some manga readers tend to think of as "not generic" storylines, that IMO isn't really all that enjoyable to follow in many cases.

Going from oatmeal to bran flakes is a natural progression, too, but no less generic and boring for all that.

That stance I chalk up to idiots who think the furthest extreme to an established idea means it will automatically be exciting or entertaining. But this is the problem of humanity in general: it's one extreme or another, despite both options being stupid. One builds his house on the sand, and the other heard a rocky foundation was wiser so he built his jutting over a cliff.:arrow:

I know i seem overly critical at this point, but the truth is a lot more can be improved here.

Also, apologies for essentially dismissing the bulk of your previous post. `:)

EvL j3st3r
05-13-2011, 02:12 PM
I have the feeling you're going to make me dig up all this info, too, aren't you?`:shock::mrgreen:
Nah. I'll take your word for it. :lol:. It's not that important anyway since (like I said before) that wasn't what I was talking about to begin with....
But that's not what I was talking about anyway. Madara wants to extract the Kyuubi and revive the Juubi. If that happens, I asume it would be the same as death for the fox bc he would ,in a sense, cease to exist as himself. He would become part of the Ten tails.

quote originally posted by me.

Merechan
05-13-2011, 06:07 PM
I enjoy flashbacks. :3 Especially ones with Sasuke. Though it's strange to be back to a time where they hated each other. XD
Also, I'm glad to see Naruto's still on his "Save Sasuke" crusade. :D

deidara330
05-13-2011, 06:52 PM
I enjoy flashbacks. :3 Especially ones with Sasuke. Though it's strange to be back to a time where they hated each other. XD
Also, I'm glad to see Naruto's still on his "Save Sasuke" crusade. :DI'm personally hoping Naruto just treats Sasuke like every other enemy he has, in that he won't really hold back much, but he won't try to kill his enemy either. Nagato did much worse than Sasuke has so far, yet Naruto didn't kill Nagato. In fact, he even spoke with him. Naruto's given up on talking as an option, but he's still not fighting to kill, as always. Fine with me, since I think Sasuke's acting out of character and Madara's controlling him.

If Sasuke's acting on his own, he has to die. He's too powerful to contain indefinitely and too full of hatred to ever abandon his cause on his own. If Madara's controlling him, kill the SoB and get Sasuke back to his normal self. (Which isn't too much of an improvement, but still...)

Mizukage
05-14-2011, 11:19 PM
Naw. Madara's not controlling him, except with his words. He even said he wasn't sure if Sasuke would fufill his brother's dieing wish or not, but Sasuke chose to continue in revenge. I honestly think he just doesn't know how to stop. He's been obsessed with revenge since he was like what? eight? That a long time; as good as being controlled or brain washed. But either way that is still manipulation by Madara.

As far as the nine-tailed fox goes. I'm just wondering. Is there any down side for the kyubi to have his owner switched from Naruto to Sasuke or to Madara? I mean the kyubi did speak to Sasuke about not killing Naruto or he would regret it. But that doesn't mean the kyubi wants to go to Sasuke. I mean obviously he'd rather be free. But if I was the kyubi I wouldn't want to be taken by madara because I'd lose my power to the 10 tails, but then again does naruto/kyubi know that? And is it worse to be stuck inside a host like naruto or controlled by the sharingan? Which has the most benefits??? And does seem like Kishi is hinting at an alliance between the ninetails and naruto in this chapter...

Awale
05-15-2011, 07:29 AM
I was beginning to wonder if anyone would notice that.See above. Flashback couldn't possibly be filler since it just doubled the meaning of the end of Naruto VS Sasuke in Part 1.

Whoa, I didn't notice that but I remember now that you guys mention it. You guys have amazing memory spans...

Another lost opportunity. Can you imagine if Danzo became the Nine Tails jinchuriki? Their discussions of hate, no all emotions, duty, war and all great matters of the human soul would last for all times.

Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....b~(

Yeah I can imagine Madara saying; "Oh will you shut up" when he walks in on a conversation between the two when he captures Danzo!`:))