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Frost ninja
04-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Who wins?

Scenario 1: Jugs is not 616, flash is not speed force flash

Scenario 2: Jugs is not 616, flash has speed force

Scenario 3: Jugs is 616, flash has speed force

Location: Town made of kittens

Juggernaut is Ultimate unless otherwise stated
The flash is Jay Garrick, the original flash.
616 vs New earth

cnorwood
04-26-2011, 11:49 AM
i dont think the flash can kill juggs but he can leave him frozen

roguezan
04-28-2011, 09:59 AM
The Flash steals his speed leaving him frozen or pushes him into the Speed Force.

kg gangster
04-28-2011, 11:51 AM
Well since the juggernaut has to gradually gain speed to be able to get going, and the flash can just go, it wouldn't be to hard for flash to stop him from gaining momentum. Additionally the flast could just create a vacum around juggernaut and suffocate him to death.

cnorwood
04-28-2011, 01:35 PM
the flash could never stop the juggernaut unless he stole all of his speed and left him frozen

Frost ninja
04-29-2011, 07:30 AM
OP edited

NBT
04-29-2011, 07:57 AM
Speed Force?
616?
Steel speed?
Kittens?

Frost ninja
04-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Speed Force?
616?
Steel speed?
Kittens?
in order:
Yes, in certain scenarios
Yes, in certain scenarios
Steel samurai :cool:
Toasty

NBT
04-29-2011, 11:31 AM
in order:
Yes, in certain scenarios
Yes, in certain scenarios
Steel samurai :cool:
Toasty
I meant,in order:
What's that?
What's that?
SteAl Speed-What's that?
What the h*ll?

Frost ninja
04-29-2011, 11:33 AM
I meant,in order:
What's that?
What's that?
SteAl Speed-What's that?
What the h*ll?

In order:
Speed force is the power of the flash characters, basically being able to lend and steal speed from people. However, one can question its effectiveness in terms of overall momentum. Can he steal speed from a mass thats already moving? If so, then what? Is he stuck mid-air if gravity is a factor?

616 Juggernaut is essentially the strongest juggernaut, capable of surviving as a flaming skeleton and regenerating as thus. He becomes, in effect, a deity of energy that doesn't need food, water, or oxy to live. So on, so forth.

Taking speed from someone. See paragraph one.

Do you not eat kittens?

Lone_Espada
04-29-2011, 11:43 AM
How does a person have speed if there not moving? It doesn't make sense if you ask me. To have speed something needs to be moving. It would make sense that the Flash could steal speed from a mass that is already moving. Because a mass that is moving has speed. A mass that doesn't move has no speed. So you can't really steal anything away from it.

Frost ninja
04-29-2011, 11:48 AM
How does a person have speed if there not moving? It doesn't make sense if you ask me. To have speed something needs to be moving. It would make sense that the Flash could steal speed from a mass that is already moving. Because a mass that is moving has speed. A mass that doesn't move has no speed. So you can't really steal anything away from it.

Consider this:
He can steal speed. Can he steal momentum?
He can slow a mass, he can take all of the speed, but the momentum of the mass... can he take that?

Can stealing speed trump gravity?

Lone_Espada
04-29-2011, 11:56 AM
He could steal the speed from the momentum?
Momentum is basically the amount of force it takes to slow something down. Taking the speed from the momentum would cause it to stop right? I'm not saying he can steal momentum. Yet the main ability of his power is to steal speed. Momentum is still kinda speed since it's still moving as a mass.

We can't prove that he can steal momentum.

I do not know. When it comes to gravity things I kinda suck at it. xD

cnorwood
04-29-2011, 01:14 PM
How does a person have speed if there not moving? It doesn't make sense if you ask me. To have speed something needs to be moving. It would make sense that the Flash could steal speed from a mass that is already moving. Because a mass that is moving has speed. A mass that doesn't move has no speed. So you can't really steal anything away from it.
unles said object is at absolute zero it is moving

Frost ninja
04-29-2011, 10:27 PM
He could steal the speed from the momentum?
Momentum is basically the amount of force it takes to slow something down. Taking the speed from the momentum would cause it to stop right? I'm not saying he can steal momentum. Yet the main ability of his power is to steal speed. Momentum is still kinda speed since it's still moving as a mass.

We can't prove that he can steal momentum.

I do not know. When it comes to gravity things I kinda suck at it. xD




Take this ideal into consideration:
He can steal speed, but can he steal the force one exerts to create said speed? The question of gravity is that gravity is a constant force, the flash cannot steal the speed of a falling object due to gravity constantly acting on it.
So lets say Juggernaut is running. He can steal the speed, but can he stop he juggernaut from moving? If not, juggernaut can simply exert force to push himself. Even if his speed is stolen, so long as he stays in motion with pushing his own body via force, his momentum builds.

Lone_Espada
04-29-2011, 10:50 PM
Stupid backspace!!!!!

I can't disagree with you on it. Since a moving mass will always have speed from said momentum of gravity constantly acting on it. It would give him enough force to push himself even if his speed is stolen.

He can't steal momentum. P:

321zigzag3
04-30-2011, 01:58 AM
Who wins?

Scenario 1: Jugs is not 616, flash is not speed force flash

Scenario 2: Jugs is not 616, flash has speed force

Scenario 3: Jugs is 616, flash has speed force

Location: Town made of kittens

If you mean not 616 Juggernaut, are you referring to the Ultimate Jugernaut?

That one was pretty weak.

Rasengan SageX5
04-30-2011, 10:38 AM
Everyone from the Ultimate verse is weaker compared to 616. I mean, from what I've heard, Hulk doesn't have his strength-increases-as-anger-does ability, Iron Man's armor is seriously weakened, and Spider-Man is just learning about his powers so he is much weaker.

Nick Tasogare
04-30-2011, 10:50 AM
Consider this:
He can steal speed. Can he steal momentum?
He can slow a mass, he can take all of the speed, but the momentum of the mass... can he take that?

Can stealing speed trump gravity?

He could steal the speed from the momentum?
Momentum is basically the amount of force it takes to slow something down. Taking the speed from the momentum would cause it to stop right? I'm not saying he can steal momentum. Yet the main ability of his power is to steal speed. Momentum is still kinda speed since it's still moving as a mass.

We can't prove that he can steal momentum.

I do not know. When it comes to gravity things I kinda suck at it. xD




Take this ideal into consideration:
He can steal speed, but can he steal the force one exerts to create said speed? The question of gravity is that gravity is a constant force, the flash cannot steal the speed of a falling object due to gravity constantly acting on it.
So lets say Juggernaut is running. He can steal the speed, but can he stop he juggernaut from moving? If not, juggernaut can simply exert force to push himself. Even if his speed is stolen, so long as he stays in motion with pushing his own body via force, his momentum builds.

Stupid backspace!!!!!

I can't disagree with you on it. Since a moving mass will always have speed from said momentum of gravity constantly acting on it. It would give him enough force to push himself even if his speed is stolen.

He can't steal momentum. P:

P = MV where P is Momentum, M is Mass and V is Velocity. If he steals the speed, the momentum decreases until it ultimately is nothing.

Frost ninja
05-01-2011, 09:54 AM
P = MV where P is Momentum, M is Mass and V is Velocity. If he steals the speed, the momentum decreases until it ultimately is nothing.

Lets say he steals the speed
Whats stopping Juggernaut from simply making more?

Also it sounds like your saying speed steal > gravity.
Is this true? Can he put things in suspended animation as to where gravity on longer affects it? If so, why doesn't he simply fly everywhere by using said ability on other things.

cnorwood
05-02-2011, 07:04 AM
Lets say he steals the speed
Whats stopping Juggernaut from simply making more?

Also it him being a frozen statue and never being able to move againagain would stop that.

you do realize that the flash is the most held back character in the DCU, he probably can solo a big chunk of the verse, including characters like superman.
flash can win this in a few ways
1) turning him into a statue
2)punching him into space
3)going back in time and killing juggs mom
4)going back in in time and killing juggs as a kid

morgoth
05-04-2011, 10:19 AM
juggs all the way

Seven
05-04-2011, 10:22 AM
This basically depends on whether or not Flash can stop of Juggernautts molecules from moving. It could be very difficult given the size and momentum the Juggernaut has and can build up. Though Flash has been able to defeat larger opponents than Jugs.

cnorwood
05-04-2011, 10:23 AM
juggs all the way How is he going to win if hes flying through space after flash punches him

Rasengan SageX5
05-04-2011, 08:39 PM
From what I hear, Juggs can breath in space as well as walk. He makes a barrier under his feet with each step. So he can get back but it will take him forever.

cnorwood
05-04-2011, 09:16 PM
flash goes back in time and aborts juggs

Frost ninja
05-05-2011, 11:55 AM
flash goes back in time and aborts juggs

Thats a ring-out and disqualification.
As for freezing jugs as a statue, you realize 616 is an entity of energy... He can become energy. Has the flash frozen pure energy?

cnorwood
05-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Thats a ring-out and disqualification.
As for freezing jugs as a statue, you realize 616 is an entity of energy... He can become energy. Has the flash frozen pure energy?punching him to space=ring out, flash comes back at the exact time he left, so techincally he never left, or he runs through juggs and makes him explode.

Frost ninja
05-06-2011, 11:34 AM
punching him to space=ring out, flash comes back at the exact time he left, so techincally he never left, or he runs through juggs and makes him explode.

Jugs is an entity of energy... If you make him "explode" he simply reforms.
Also can the flash freeze energy?

Seven
05-06-2011, 11:41 AM
Flash stops the Juggs molecules from all motion using counter vibrations, making Jugs into a human statue for all eternity.

Frost ninja
05-06-2011, 11:42 AM
Flash stops the Juggs molecules from all motion using counter vibrations, making Jugs into a human statue for all eternity.

How does he do this, exactly.

Seven
05-06-2011, 11:45 AM
Flash can vibrate his own molecules to a point where he can go intangible and go through walls, all he has to do it get behind Jugs and vibrate his own molecules at a counter frequency to Jugs' molecules and they will stop moving, if Jugs can get them to move which is highly and I mean highly unlikely once they stop completely, then he won't have any momentum and Flash takes him out using pure power and speed.

cnorwood
05-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Flash can vibrate his own molecules to a point where he can go intangible and go through walls, all he has to do it get behind Jugs and vibrate his own molecules at a counter frequency to Jugs' molecules and they will stop moving, if Jugs can get them to move which is highly and I mean highly unlikely once they stop completely, then he won't have any momentum and Flash takes him out using pure power and speed. this
freeze + infinite mass punch=win

Seven
05-06-2011, 11:52 AM
this
freeze + infinite mass punch=win

I here by conclude this, Flash Rapevans Juggernaut and uses his blood as nurishment to keep smashing him to pieces.

Frost ninja
05-06-2011, 10:30 PM
Flash can vibrate his own molecules to a point where he can go intangible and go through walls, all he has to do it get behind Jugs and vibrate his own molecules at a counter frequency to Jugs' molecules and they will stop moving, if Jugs can get them to move which is highly and I mean highly unlikely once they stop completely, then he won't have any momentum and Flash takes him out using pure power and speed.

And he can do this to something like say... pure energy?
Plus you realize 616 can generate barriers... I dont see the flash vibrating through magics...

Seven
05-07-2011, 12:41 PM
And he can do this to something like say... pure energy?
Plus you realize 616 can generate barriers... I dont see the flash vibrating through magics...
Barriers mean nothing when Flash can speed right around them. If 616 makes a barrier that completely goes around him then how is he gonna get to Flash? :lol: He can't catch Flash and even 616 has limits to his stamina.

Frost ninja
05-07-2011, 10:10 PM
Barriers mean nothing when Flash can speed right around them. If 616 makes a barrier that completely goes around him then how is he gonna get to Flash? :lol: He can't catch Flash and even 616 has limits to his stamina.


Being coated in a barrier doesn't mean he cant get to flash, especially if he puts the barrier directly to his body. He can simply punch flash WITH the barrier.

cnorwood
05-07-2011, 10:25 PM
Being coated in a barrier doesn't mean he cant get to flash, especially if he puts the barrier directly to his body. He can simply punch flash WITH the barrier.
so if the flash infinite mass punches the barrier what would happen, fyi World war hulk has threw juggernaut pretty far, Infinte mass punch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>world war hulk strength. ring outs=loss so flash punches him to space

Seven
05-08-2011, 08:21 AM
Being coated in a barrier doesn't mean he cant get to flash, especially if he puts the barrier directly to his body. He can simply punch flash WITH the barrier.

Flash touches the barrier after dodging the punch and vibrates it until it either explodes or gives away. Then Flash just infinite mass punches him.

Frost ninja
05-08-2011, 09:40 AM
I don think you two realize that the juggernaut is an
ENTITY OF ENERGY in 616 mode.
Meaning his barrier is...

Blah! Just read...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Cain_Marko_(Earth-616)

^Add a ending parenthesis at the end of the link when you put it in the address bar, its not showing otherwise.

Juggernaut uses a thunderclap, flash is basically a dead-man, especially at that proximity. Unless he chooses to run, but he cannot run father than the reaches of the city made of kittens.

Nick Tasogare
05-08-2011, 09:43 AM
Lets say he steals the speed
Whats stopping Juggernaut from simply making more?

Also it sounds like your saying speed steal > gravity.
Is this true? Can he put things in suspended animation as to where gravity on longer affects it? If so, why doesn't he simply fly everywhere by using said ability on other things.

Well the way I'm understanding it, Flash steals the ability to make speed. That's probably wrong. Either way, I'd say that Flash would just steal the speed, taking his power for a moment, and then blitz him with super fast punches.

I don't get your question. How do speed steal and gravity equate in relation to each other?

cnorwood
05-08-2011, 09:58 AM
I don think you two realize that the juggernaut is an
ENTITY OF ENERGY in 616 mode.
Meaning his barrier is...

Blah! Just read...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Cain_Marko_(Earth-616 (http://marvel.wikia.com/Cain_Marko_%28Earth-616))

^Add a ending parenthesis at the end of the link when you put it in the address bar, its not showing otherwise.

Juggernaut uses a thunderclap, flash is basically a dead-man, especially at that proximity. Unless he chooses to run, but he cannot run father than the reaches of the city made of kittens. where does it say in there that the juggernaut is pure energy. anyway i dont think you realize all of the flash's powers if you think a thunderclap will hurt him.
flash is more than a guy who runs fast.

Frost ninja
05-08-2011, 10:08 AM
I'm thinking its in the descri[tion, but 616 is an entity of energy and doesn't need food, water, etc for survival. Something to those terms were in there methinks.

I've read up on the flash, I dont see him being invulnerable to a thunderclap.

@nick

The idea is force to make motion vs motion itself.
Gravity constantly pushes force and adds speed.
If the flash can steal the ability to make speed, or leave someone completely motionless, does the flash's power override gravity, which would be applying its force to increase the speed of the object downwards?

Rasengan SageX5
05-08-2011, 10:11 AM
Flash might not be immune to a Thunderclap, but the thing is, I don't think Juggs can hit him. Even going full speed, he couldn't catch Flash. Flash would just run around the planet a few times to build up momentum, then just punch Juggs as hard as he could and launch him into outer space.

Nick Tasogare
05-08-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm thinking its in the descri[tion, but 616 is an entity of energy and doesn't need food, water, etc for survival. Something to those terms were in there methinks.

I've read up on the flash, I dont see him being invulnerable to a thunderclap.

@nick

The idea is force to make motion vs motion itself.
Gravity constantly pushes force and adds speed.
If the flash can steal the ability to make speed, or leave someone completely motionless, does the flash's power override gravity, which would be applying its force to increase the speed of the object downwards?

Without force or energy to create motion, there is no motion.

Gravity pushes force in the downward direction, which is why we stay on the ground. The force or acceleration of gravity is 9.8 m/s^2. Since I'm gonna guess that Juggernaut isn't going to be free falling during this fight, I don't think the force of gravity really matters here, nor does whether or not Flash would override gravity.

That being said, I don't think his power would be able to cancel out a natural force like that. However, he would be able to manipulate Juggernaut's momentum with his ability to steal speed, which is crucial in determining the force of momentum.

Seven
05-08-2011, 10:28 AM
I don think you two realize that the juggernaut is an
ENTITY OF ENERGY in 616 mode.
Meaning his barrier is...

Blah! Just read...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Cain_Marko_(Earth-616)

^Add a ending parenthesis at the end of the link when you put it in the address bar, its not showing otherwise.

Juggernaut uses a thunderclap, flash is basically a dead-man, especially at that proximity. Unless he chooses to run, but he cannot run father than the reaches of the city made of kittens.

Speed Force Flash is massively ftl Juggernaugt won't even see him coming, then it is an infinate mass punch adn Juggs goes fly out of the city. Even with a barrier, Flash rapes.

Devils Lawyer
05-08-2011, 03:51 PM
Flash has the potential to win this. Just depends on what version we are talking about.

cnorwood
05-08-2011, 04:07 PM
Flash has the potential to win this. Just depends on what version we are talking about.
i think we are talking about new earth wally west

cnorwood
05-08-2011, 04:09 PM
I'm thinking its in the descri[tion, but 616 is an entity of energy and doesn't need food, water, etc for survival. Something to those terms were in there methinks.

I've read up on the flash, I dont see him being invulnerable to a thunderclap.


-those terms mean that cyttorak is supplying him with infinte nourishment, in the same way that a yellow sun provides superman nourishment. it doesnt mean he is pure energy. besides flash will phase right through a thuderclap. and thats ignoring the fact that he is trillions of times FTL

Seven
05-08-2011, 06:50 PM
Infinate Mass Punch by Rebirth's New Earth Flash, Juggs, 616, none of them have a chance.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I was talking Jay garrik, the original flash.

Seven
05-09-2011, 06:54 PM
We are talking Speed Force Flash from Rebirth's New Earth.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:14 PM
I was talking Jay Garrick, like when he fist found the speed force.
That or, the flash from JLU

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Nah, New Earth Flash is stronger than both. :P
JLU is fodder feat wise.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:16 PM
I'm sure he is, but I was referring to Jay Garrick.

OP edited. Jugger is ultimate in regular form.
616 vs new earth, fair enough?

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Sure, though 616 doesn't have a way of hitting Flash even with a thunder clap. He has no way of winning this and he has unlimited stamina making this match go on until Flash bypasses a barrier and knocks Juggs from kitten city.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Sure, though 616 doesn't have a way of hitting Flash even with a thunder clap. He has no way of winning this and he has unlimited stamina making this match go on until Flash bypasses a barrier and knocks Juggs from kitten city.

That is if he can bypass it. The barrier isn't anything to sneeze at.

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:23 PM
Niether is the momentum of the Flash at massively ftl speed. He can also steal 616's speed and momentum everytime he passes him.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:25 PM
Niether is the momentum of the Flash at massively ftl speed. He can also steal 616's speed and momentum everytime he passes him.

Although true, doesn't the flash need to run a bit before he hits massive ftl? He only has the city of kittens to run around in, and I don't see him getting to massively FTL with jugs firing off a thunderclap, since the flash would have to phaze through it.

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Although true, doesn't the flash need to run a bit before he hits massive ftl? He only has the city of kittens to run around in, and I don't see him getting to massively FTL with jugs firing off a thunderclap, since the flash would have to phaze through it.

Flash is able to control his own speed at a mastery level until he hits ftl and above, he can just zoom back and forth at already hypersonic starting speeds. Juggs uses kinetic energy like Gambit doesn't he?

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:31 PM
Flash is able to control his own speed at a mastery level until he hits ftl and above, he can just zoom back and forth at already hypersonic starting speeds. Juggs uses kinetic energy like Gambit doesn't he?
Somewhat. Basically once he starts going he builds momentum at ungodly speeds. Question: How does the flash steal speed. Does he simply look at something or does it require physical contact?

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Oh wait, OBD claims that Rebirth Flash has energy Manipulation other than just Kinetic. xD
616 just lost his defense.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Oh wait, OBD claims that Rebirth Flash has energy Manipulation other than just Kinetic. xD
616 just lost his defense.

Not necessarily, its dependant on who has more control.
With juggernaut being fed by a deity of sorts, I'm pretty sure flash is going to need more than "energy manipulation"
Thats if he can even manipulate the energy since its attributed to the gem itself.

Seven
05-09-2011, 08:42 PM
True, but Flash has Speedforce Dump, aka a BFR. By Forced Ring-out.
He touches Juggs once and he dumps him into Speedforce dimension, he touches Juggs at all and he steals speed and momentum making Juggs a frozen Statue forever. He vibrates through the barrier and Juggs causing Juggs to explode from the inside out, though 616 can just reform.

Frost ninja
05-09-2011, 08:46 PM
True, but Flash has Speedforce Dump, aka a BFR. By Forced Ring-out.
He touches Juggs once and he dumps him into Speedforce dimension, he touches Juggs at all and he steals speed and momentum making Juggs a frozen Statue forever. He vibrates through the barrier and Juggs causing Juggs to explode from the inside out, though 616 can just reform.

In order:
He has to TOUCH jugs, no go with the barrier.
He vibrates through a pure energy, diety-fed barrier thats tanked much more than vibrating particles... Trying to vibrate will cause heat, but he isn't getting through. If nothing else, that just lets jugs score the OHKO.

Exploding is... yeah. Reformed xD You still need to touch.

Seven
05-10-2011, 02:55 PM
In order:
He has to TOUCH jugs, no go with the barrier.
He vibrates through a pure energy, diety-fed barrier thats tanked much more than vibrating particles... Trying to vibrate will cause heat, but he isn't getting through. If nothing else, that just lets jugs score the OHKO.

Exploding is... yeah. Reformed xD You still need to touch.
Flash's Speedforce aurta protects him from all heat, that is how he can travel at lightspeed without burning into dust. Vibrating Particles aren't supposed to break the barrier, just travel through it, aka intangibility. Flash has tanked class 100 hits with minor injury. Juggs isn't even a Class 100. I don't know about 616.

cnorwood
05-10-2011, 03:27 PM
lets put it like this, what in the hell could juggs do to the flash, he surely isnt tagging him. in wwh, hulk tossed and punched juggs, so his barrier obviously isnt always up, or he can be touched. and flash has speedforce dump=bfr, he could give juggs speed and make juggs bfr himself. vibrate through him, punch him into outer space, bla bla bla bla bla

Frost ninja
05-10-2011, 05:02 PM
What is flash going to do to Juggs?
He can't just vibrate through the energy. Even being intangible, that doesn't automatically mean he can just waltz through a barrier, adding in he is vibrating through the energies of a divine being, whos to say he doesn't simply become part of the barrier? OBD says the flash is weak against other forms of energy, and that he can end up trapped in the speed force.

Plus Jugs can just crimson-port him out of the fight if he knows where the flash will attack

cnorwood
05-10-2011, 11:16 PM
What is flash going to do to Juggs?
He can't just vibrate through the energy. Even being intangible, that doesn't automatically mean he can just waltz through a barrier, adding in he is vibrating through the energies of a divine being, whos to say he doesn't simply become part of the barrier? OBD says the flash is weak against other forms of energy, and that he can end up trapped in the speed force.

Plus Jugs can just crimson-port him out of the fight if he knows where the flash will attack
in wwh hulk tossed juggs

Zestu
05-11-2011, 03:26 AM
Flash is overall the fastest naruto character and is Juggernaut choji? if so flash wins choji is only a chunin.

cnorwood
05-11-2011, 08:25 AM
Flash is overall the fastest naruto character and is Juggernaut choji? if so flash wins choji is only a chunin.this isnt about naruto, its about 2 diffrent characters that would eaisly solo the narutoverse

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 10:46 AM
in wwh hulk tossed juggs

Did jugs have the barrier on, surrounding, and at full power?

cnorwood
05-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Did jugs have the barrier on, surrounding, and at full power? so he doesnt always have it on, and he has to activate it..........can he activate it before someone moving Trillions of times FTL hits him with a infinite mass punch



EDIT:Oh i read the op and this is jay Garric, i was thinking about wally west. well then jay might not have anything that would hurt juggs

Seven
05-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Did jugs have the barrier on, surrounding, and at full power?
It was because Hulk is able to touch energy like it is a solid and he is an Upper High Class 100+ hitter.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 06:46 PM
It was because Hulk is able to touch energy like it is a solid and he is an Upper High Class 100+ hitter.

So it was something special?

Noctis Arashi
05-11-2011, 06:57 PM
What is stopping jugs from getting all of his kinetic energy stolen, effectively putting him at absolute zero?

OR being speedforce dumped.

Seven
05-11-2011, 07:29 PM
So it was something special?

Only the strength but for juggs to block Flash his barrier would have to be solid anyway.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 07:42 PM
What is stopping jugs from getting all of his kinetic energy stolen, effectively putting him at absolute zero?

OR being speedforce dumped.

Barrier and the question behind power to make motion vs motion itself

Seven
05-11-2011, 07:43 PM
Flash has the ability to steal the speed of objects and their movement adding to his own using the Speedforce.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 07:46 PM
Flash has the ability to steal the speed of objects and their movement adding to his own using the Speedforce.

True but he has to be in proximity. Herein lies the issue. In fact, if the flash cannot phaze through the barrier because of its properties of being both energy and deity-based, Jugs could possibly expand the barrier and push the flash out of bounds.

Seven
05-11-2011, 07:49 PM
True but he has to be in proximity. Herein lies the issue. In fact, if the flash cannot phaze through the barrier because of its properties of being both energy and deity-based, Jugs could possibly expand the barrier and push the flash out of bounds.

Diety-based is Flash's greatest ally here, that means he has never tried to phase through it before and that means he has not been shown to be defeated by that kind of energy before. So in theory, Flash's disability to only certain enrgies which would exist in his verse not Marvel's gives him the possibility of phasing and tagging Juggs, 616, and others with Infinate Mass Punch or Speedforce Dump. Either way it is BFR for Juggs and 616, By Forced Ring-Out.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 07:51 PM
Diety-based is Flash's greatest ally here, that means he has never tried to phase through it before and that means he has not been shown to be defeated by that kind of energy before. So in theory, Flash's disability to only certain enrgies which would exist in his verse not Marvel's gives him the possibility of phasing and tagging Juggs, 616, and others with Infinate Mass Punch or Speedforce Dump. Either way it is BFR for Juggs and 616, By Forced Ring-Out.

By that logic, since he has never been shown to face off against that kind of energy, its equal claim to say that coming into contact with it or attempting to attack or phaze through it will cause him to be forced into the speedforce.

Seven
05-11-2011, 07:52 PM
So do we call it as a no-contest? xD

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 07:55 PM
Dunno. Flash phazing through is an unknown factor, but jugs can't "tag" him barring barrier expanding, and it probably cant get to city-size.

Will you agree to a no-contest or do you have more to say?

Seven
05-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Dunno. Flash phazing through is an unknown factor, but jugs can't "tag" him barring barrier expanding, and it probably cant get to city-size.

Will you agree to a no-contest or do you have more to say?

Well the only remaining factor is if 616 can activate and condense the barrier before Flash zooms in through the tiniest hole and tags him at ftl speed.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Being Deity based, its probably going to go full-round instantly in bloodlust.
That or he gets crimson ported into the air, barriers, and grounds it.

Seven
05-11-2011, 08:02 PM
Yeah, let's call it an decided No-Contest.

Frost ninja
05-11-2011, 08:18 PM
Fair enough.

Seven
05-11-2011, 08:24 PM
This was a long ass debate too. xD

chidoriroar
05-18-2011, 08:13 AM
616 juggernaut rapes, but without it flash can probably suffocate him

cnorwood
05-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Flash uses Speed Force to create a tunnel around Jug, jug losse Oxygen, Speed, Momentum and Force.

So in other words, Jugs dies and suffocates.IIRC 616 Juggs doesnt have to breathe