Kakashi's MS (Someone have an answer?)

[Jinchiruuki]

Why is it his MS isn't fading?

He has used it quite a few times yet we have not seen (or it just hasn't been shown/talked about) any reduction in eyesight or damage to that eye.

Anyone know or have an idea?

[HokageNarutoUzamaki]

i dont think he's used it enough, but for some reason with no connection or support to my theory; i think he may have eternal mangekyo sharingan when he got his eye from obito (i know that obito isnt a relative, but i have a feeling...) anyway, we dont know to much about the hatake clan soo who knows :P

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Why is it his MS isn't fading?

He has used it quite a few times yet we have not seen (or it just hasn't been shown/talked about) any reduction in eyesight or damage to that eye.

Anyone know or have an idea?

.... Plothole. One of many. `:P

[Jonesy]

He is obviously a god sent from above. `:P

[Pool]

He's not an Uchiha so he gets affected by using sharingan too long but I don't think he'll lose sight because he's not an Uchiha. Maybe losing sight is also a seperate hindering KG for the Uchiha?

[DeemonFox]

Maybe it depends on the jutsu you use. You should add this to the blooper/inconsistency thread.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I'm sure it is, but at a MUCH slower pace than Itachi's and Sasuke's.

Probably because he doesn't use it unreasonably in every conceivable situation.

[Jinchiruuki]

.... Plothole. One of many. `:P

Good potholes...

He's not an Uchiha so he gets affected by using sharingan too long but I don't think he'll lose sight because he's not an Uchiha. Maybe losing sight is also a seperate hindering KG for the Uchiha?

Yeah him not being an Uchiha would make me think that the drawbacks would be more severe to be honest. Considering having his Sharingan activated 24/7 and exposed drains the hell out of him.

Maybe it depends on the jutsu you use. You should add this to the blooper/inconsistency thread.

Kamui in my opinion is better than Amaterasu (except Sasuke's current levels of ability with it)

I'm sure it is, but at a MUCH slower pace than Itachi's and Sasuke's.

Probably because he doesn't use it unreasonably in every conceivable situation.

Sasuke used Tsuky and Amaterasu x2 in his fight with Killer Bee...after that he already noticed eye sight loss.

Kakashi has used his Kamui x2 vs Deidara and x2 vs Pain yet has had no bleeding in his eye, nor any comments on eyesight loss.

[SilentBlade]

I am not sure, I mean there is always the possibility of the EMS, which I suppose would make some sense. However we could take the standpoint that based on the amount of chakra he has and the amount needed to "over use" the MS power which would lead to blindness just isn't there. We've seen what happens when he tries to use it, not so much bleeding out of the eye due to a huge mass of chakra but just that all his chakra seems to go up in smoke.

The last theory could be that, perhaps only having a single eye like that works in his favor. We know that sight is important when it comes to being a ninja, but no where does it say that one must be able to see to use a specific jutsu. By having a normal eye and a sharingan eye, we could argue that even if he does go blind in the sharingan eye, he can still use the jutsu from it, but would have to direct it with his normal eye. I guess there are just a lot of theories.

[Gouldy17]

he has used it if i recall on 2 maybe 3 different occasions in the entire series where as itachi had it years and was not completely blind saskue on the other hand battered it as soon as he got it he relied so heavily on MS madara himself said it he used it to much to soon

its unlikely but seen as tho we have never seen MS in any1 but uchiha kakashi may never loose its light although i doubt it can be considered EMS

[Jinchiruuki]

he has used it if i recall on 2 maybe 3 different occasions in the entire series where as itachi had it years and was not completely blind saskue on the other hand battered it as soon as he got it he relied so heavily on MS madara himself said it he used it to much to soon

its unlikely but seen as tho we have never seen MS in any1 but uchiha kakashi may never loose its light although i doubt it can be considered EMS

Kakashi has used it 4 times or so.

Sasuke used it 3 times in his fight with Killer Bee and already noticed a drop in eye sight.

We don't know how many times Itachi used his throughout his life before his fight with Sasuke except for the 3 times he used it on Sasuke..once after the Uchiha massacre (Tsuky) and the other 2 were after the Chunin Exams (Amaterasu and Tsuky).

[JazzJunkie4]

Why is it his MS isn't fading?

He has used it quite a few times yet we have not seen (or it just hasn't been shown/talked about) any reduction in eyesight or damage to that eye.

Anyone know or have an idea?

hmmm... Me and jester had a big debate on whether it was fading or not a while back. Basically the only hint we have had that it is fading so far is in the beginning of part 2 when kakashi asks itachi how much his eye sight has faded and itachi goes "kakashi.... you" implying that kakashi knows of the down side of mangekyo probably because he is starting to lose his eyesight as well because he somehow got MS. Kakashi isn't using it nearly as much as sasuke, only 3 brief times in the entire series I think (probably more during the time skip) so if he is losing his eyesight, which I do believe to be the case because of his encounter with itachi, then we can definitely assume it isn't as bad as sasuke's because he lost his in a really REALLY short amount of time because he just spammed it to death over a short period of time.

[Jinchiruuki]

hmmm... Me and jester had a big debate on whether it was fading or not a while back. Basically the only hint we have had that it is fading so far is in the beginning of part 2 when kakashi asks itachi how much his eye sight has faded and itachi goes "kakashi.... you" implying that kakashi knows of the down side of mangekyo probably because he is starting to lose his eyesight as well because he somehow got MS. Kakashi isn't using it nearly as much as sasuke, only 3 brief times in the entire series I think (probably more during the time skip) so if he is losing his eyesight, which I do believe to be the case because of his encounter with itachi, then we can definitely assume it isn't as bad as sasuke's because he lost his in a really REALLY short amount of time because he just spammed it to death over a short period of time.

This is true I forgot about that part in his convo with Itachi.
BUT we also know that having the sharingan enables a person to partially decipher that tablet in the Uchiha hideout in the Leaf Village. IIRC doesn't that tablet give hints or info on how to obtain MS and EMS and also the downsides to MS?

This of course however is completely filled with holes, because that would depend on Kakashi reading the tablet himself.

[JazzJunkie4]

This is true I forgot about that part in his convo with Itachi.
BUT we also know that having the sharingan enables a person to partially decipher that tablet in the Uchiha hideout in the Leaf Village. IIRC doesn't that tablet give hints or info on how to obtain MS and EMS and also the downsides to MS?

This of course however is completely filled with holes, because that would depend on Kakashi reading the tablet himself.

Yes and that is the other side of the argument. Although you might need two sharingan to read it, but then again he got MS with 1 so anything is possible. We simply won't know for sure until it is further clarified in the manga.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Sasuke used Tsuky and Amaterasu x2 in his fight with Killer Bee...after that he already noticed eye sight loss.

Kakashi has used his Kamui x2 vs Deidara and x2 vs Pain yet has had no bleeding in his eye, nor any comments on eyesight loss.

How many times did he use it against Itachi? And Susano'o is far more draining than Kamui.

[Jinchiruuki]

How many times did he use it against Itachi? And Susano'o is far more draining than Kamui.




He didn't have MS when he fought Itachi..he obtained that after Madara told him "the truth" bout Itachi after Sauce killed him.

[EvL j3st3r]

Well I tend to think of it this way........

EMS never loses it's light.
EMS is a transplanted Sharingan.

Kakashi's eye doesn't seem to be loosing it's light.
Kakashi's has a transplanted Sharingan.

Before anyone blows a gasket......I'm not saying Kakashi has EMS. I'm saying that maybe it's just that a transplanted Sharingan never loses light. That may be the reason that EMS doesn't cause blindness, as well as the reason Kakashi's MS doesn't seem to cause blindness.

[Kreegah!!!]

I'm more interested in how he obtained the MS without slaughtering those he holds dear.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

One eye, and it's deactivated after he uses Kamui, so it takes a lot slower, since typically Sasuke and Itachi have it on the whole fight after use, rather than just one eye for a wee bit.

[Black Shuck]

I think the answer lies in how he got the MS and its effects on a non-Uchiha.

[Gouldy17]

Kakashi has used it 4 times or so.

Sasuke used it 3 times in his fight with Killer Bee and already noticed a drop in eye sight.

We don't know how many times Itachi used his throughout his life before his fight with Sasuke except for the 3 times he used it on Sasuke..once after the Uchiha massacre (Tsuky) and the other 2 were after the Chunin Exams (Amaterasu and Tsuky).

kakashi knew of the risk of using MS without being told b4 we even see him use it if i recall correctly he tells itachi of the risks b4 he uses MS against deidara for the first time...at that point in the story how else would he know of the risk without experiencing it first hand

plus kakashi only used MS for very short periods of time the longest of which (in the anime at least) is the first time we see it when he takes deideras arm which only lasted seconds whereas saskue uses his no stop in fight after fight and including all 3 of his MS powers the 3rd of which susano'o uses both eyes

[Revived Kakuzu]

Are we forgetting that Kakashi died, and was ressurected? I'm pretty sure that that'll play a part towards it too... It probably restored his vision.

[Kreegah!!!]

Are we forgetting that Kakashi died, and was ressurected? I'm pretty sure that that'll play a part towards it too... It probably restored his vision.

That would be sweet.

[kalmeast]

Are we forgetting that Kakashi died, and was ressurected? I'm pretty sure that that'll play a part towards it too... It probably restored his vision.

very interestin...can u explain further...in terms of theorizing

[Revived Kakuzu]

...Theorising? There's not much to it, really. He died. Pein revived him, voila. I'm pretty sure that all the chakra that he exhausted was replaced, and he used multiple Kamuis in that battle, so I'm sure that they no longer count, of not all of the ones he used before this. I'm just guessing that since he died, and was revived, that he was sorta 'brand new'.

[HokageNarutoUzamaki]

Well I tend to think of it this way........

EMS never loses it's light.
EMS is a transplanted Sharingan.

Kakashi's eye doesn't seem to be loosing it's light.
Kakashi's has a transplanted Sharingan.

Before anyone blows a gasket......I'm not saying Kakashi has EMS. I'm saying that maybe it's just that a transplanted Sharingan never loses light. That may be the reason that EMS doesn't cause blindness, as well as the reason Kakashi's MS doesn't seem to cause blindness.

I kind of have a feeling its right but according to madara to obtain EMS you need the eye of a direct family member but then again we dont know how it would effect a non-uchiha

[Shadowterra]

Kakashi only has 1 MS and he only has kumai/kamui which i think does't put as much pressure than ammy and sasuno'o.maybe it has something to do with chakra like the uchihas has to have both of their eyes active in a fight witch uses lots of chakra.but kakashi has one so he uses less chakra.I THINK THAT ITS THE AMOUNT OF CHAKRA THAT MAKES THEM BLIND.

[EvL j3st3r]

^That wouldn't make sense. Kakashi's one MS still drains him to the point that it nearly kills him. He wouldn't have anymore chakra to spare. For that matter, we've seen several characters exhaust their chakra near the max. It doesn't cause blindness.

[Mizukage]

I agree with HokageNarutoUzumaki

[EvL j3st3r]

I kind of have a feeling its right but according to madara to obtain EMS you need the eye of a direct family member but then again we dont know how it would effect a non-uchiha
once again, I'm not saying Kakashi has EMS. I'm saying eternal light may not just be a power of EMS. It may be a power of any transplanted sharingan.

[manko uchiuga]

i think he has ems here why i know u need a brothers eye mabe the bond between obito and kakashi is so strong they wer already like brother so he got it anyway see my point

[EvL j3st3r]

Well I hope what Kakashi has ISN'T EMS bc it would be a disappointment to what I'm thinking on a scale of power.

[kalmeast]

i think he has ems here why i know u need a brothers eye mabe the bond between obito and kakashi is so strong they wer already like brother so he got it anyway see my point

Naah man...that'd be lame on kishi's part only because, he has Hidden Madara's EMS for ever, up until now we dont know what it can do...
He has hidden Sasuke's for this long building up this whole ultimate sharingan mystery... Then all of a sudden he brings kakashi on board with EMS?

[-Naruto-]

You know what I think?


Madara and Sasuke achieved EMS via taking it from a bloodline brother. Kakashi found a loophole, I think that because of this it allows him to have different restrictions and stuff

[EvL j3st3r]

^It's a good thought that many ppl share but it just doesn't fly for me. Sasuke and Itachi's MS is superior to Kakashi's current visual techniques (in my opinion). Kamui is awsome but for me, it pales in comparison to Tsukiyomi and especially Susanoo. It'd be stupid if Kakashi had an EMS that couldn't even best Itachi and Sasuke's MS.

[Jakropha]

^It's a good thought that many ppl share but it just doesn't fly for me. Sasuke and Itachi's MS is superior to Kakashi's current visual techniques (in my opinion). Kamui is awsome but for me, it pales in comparison to Tsukiyomi and especially Susanoo. It'd be stupid if Kakashi had an EMS that couldn't even best Itachi and Sasuke's MS.

Technically, he does have an EMS

Its eternal, and its a mangekyo sharingan.
But, we cant be certain if EMS is even on the verge of godlike, as we know nothing, in its raw state, it couldve been meant to be just that, an unblinding eye. But now that nearly 99% of the Naruto Fanbase hyped it up, of course Kishi is gonna make it godlike :mrgreen:

Kakashi's Kamui bests Tsukuyomi, at least Sasuke's, Itachi had beast Genjutsu. Susanoo is near unmatched obviously, and Amateratsu? Its not as great as it seems when you look at its base mechanics.

But the best MS so far? Has to be Madara's, and yes, im assuming that its his MS technique.
I mean admit it, he's pretty beast warping around like that, it does wonders :)

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

he doesn't use it every fight, so that saves him from overusage and blindness
and another drawback is that it takes lots of chakra and he get tired quickly

[Shadow Clone77]

once again, I'm not saying Kakashi has EMS. I'm saying eternal light may not just be a power of EMS. It may be a power of any transplanted sharingan.This is how I see it. It is only an incorrect assumption that it requires brothers. Who do we know that has had Mangekyo Sharingans? Only Madara, his brother, Itachi and Sasuke. If Madara was the first to get EMS and Sasuke the second they wouldn't know for sure that it requires brothers, but assumed so because it is the only two times that EMS was possible.

Madara likes to collect eyes. He cursed Danzo for crushing Shisui's eye, he mentioned how rare it was for eyes to activate Susanoo. It makes me think that eyes have unique powers or why else collect them. Maybe Obito's eye already had the power to awaken MS.

Danzo and Kakashi also had sharingans transplanted, but only Kakashi learned MS. The hole in this is izanagi closed both Madara's and most of Danzo's eyes so translpanting didn't remove the effects of izanagi.