Itachi's Gift To Naruto

[Jinchiruuki]

This is actually inspired by Deidara330's mentionings on his theory/theories.

Now we all have had many ideas as to what this "gift" is.

Defense against genjutsu, a new jutsu or a mental spirit (like the 4th in Naruto's seal) that sent/sends messages to Sasuke when him and Naruto meet.

Now I believe Deidara330's theory is correct. But I also think there is more to it. As of right now, no jutsu in Naruto OR Sasuke's arsenal is capable of standing toe to toe with Madara...and maybe even Kabuto.

Something we do know though (if Deidara330's theory is correct) is that a mental image would produce itself in the form of the person, which as shown by Naruto when seeing the 4th CAN become "physical" to some degree. If you didn't see D330's theory, he believes that the gift was a message/imprint of Itachi to appear to Sasuke each time they clashed. Hence the theory that Itachi influenced Sasuke into wanting to transplant Itachi's eyes RIGHT after seeing Naruto on the bridge.

Also take into consideration:

What other technique makes a persons mental/physical form phase in and out of reality?...a projection of sorts(besides the Death Reaper Seal but I think that it is more PNJ with the 4th doing it with that..) Izanagi.

I can't really say "knowing Itachi and his planning ahead" as that is kind of overhyping and probably stretching out wayyy too far...as is this whole theory for that matter.

Either way I find that technique to be much broader than just what we have seen so far or at least it COULD be. It would also make sense due to Naruto having DNA of the Hokage already and Itachi having the DNA of the Uchiha which both are required for this Jutsu to work.

Itachi saying "I hope you never have to use it" also indicated that whatever he did give Naruto, it would be a ace in the hole of sorts that would be of the utmost cost or would have a very high risk in its use...Izanagi as far as we know permanently closes off a sharingan, but what about someone who doesn't have any?

Also, considering that Izanagi would enable Naruto to fight near on par with Madara or be able to fight Sasuke to his fullest potential without fear of killing Sasuke or himself..I find this to be plausible. OR to think of it in another way what if Sasuke turns on Madara? Knowing Naruto he would sacrifice himself to save Sasuke..Izanagi would be a fitting way of doing just that.

What else is there that would bring him to say "I hope you don't have to use it"?

[Twilit Lion (Leo)]

Eh sounds convincing I guess.

[Jinchiruuki]

Eh sounds convincing I guess.


Want to add anything? xD

[Twilit Lion (Leo)]

hmm Let me check.....oh yea and your name reminds me.....gotta get that Samehada from the real Bee and give to my pet shark, Same. xDDDD anyway to looking at the thing to add more stuff.

[JazzJunkie4]

......so, Itachi's gift is a vision of itachi, which we should probably have seen, that we have never seen whom convinces sasuke to get new eyes or something? No way man, when the power activates we will know about it. Besides why would itachi make sasuke get more fire power to kill naruto? Sasuke was almost blind and he knew from experience that if you are going to underestimate naruto you are going to lose. He wanted his eyes right away because he recognized naruto is a threat and wants everything he can muster to end him. Also, if he saw itachi, don't you think his answer wouldn't have been as solid as it was when madara asked "why now"?

[Jinchiruuki]

......so, Itachi's gift is a vision of itachi, which we should probably have seen, that we have never seen whom convinces sasuke to get new eyes or something? No way man, when the power activates we will know about it. Besides why would itachi make sasuke get more fire power to kill naruto? Sasuke was almost blind and he knew from experience that if you are going to underestimate naruto you are going to lose. He wanted his eyes right away because he recognized naruto is a threat and wants everything he can muster to end him. Also, if he saw itachi, don't you think his answer wouldn't have been as solid as it was when madara asked "why now"?

Madara asked why now because he too was surprised by Sasuke's sudden change in his decision to take Itachi's eyes. Which happened RIGHT after his clash with Naruto. Even if the theory of an Itachi projection is incorrect, Izanagi is still in the playing field for what Itachi may have given him. And do you really think Sasuke would give a solid answer to Madara? Why would he? Sasuke is still repelling Madara's control.

Itachi wouldn't be giving Sasuke more firepower to kill Naruto, but more firepower to be able to stand up to Madara if the oppurtunity arises.

Also if the theory of Itachi sending a message to Sasuke is true, he would have done so with the knowledge he gave something else to Naruto as well to help him in bringing Sasuke back or enable him to fight on par with Sasuke. Which is why I think the gift isn't just one thing but a combination.

Itachi knows just about everything there is to know about the Uchiha AND Madara which is why I think the gift right now is being underrated.

[JazzJunkie4]

Madara asked why now because he too was surprised by Sasuke's sudden change in his decision to take Itachi's eyes. Which happened RIGHT after his clash with Naruto. Even if the theory of an Itachi projection is incorrect, Izanagi is still in the playing field for what Itachi may have given him. And do you really think Sasuke would give a solid answer to Madara? Why would he? Sasuke is still repelling Madara's control.
It wasn't so much what sasuke said that points against this theory as to how it was delivered. He had no hesitation when he said it, if he was lying it would have been hinted in some way. Besides kishi gave his response nearly an entire page. Just like when madara said he gave negato the rinnegan, if he was lying why make it so dramatic. Of course sasuke is still repelling madara's control, but that is no reason not to believe what kishi has already told us.
Itachi wouldn't be giving Sasuke more firepower to kill Naruto, but more firepower to be able to stand up to Madara if the oppurtunity arises.

Also if the theory of Itachi sending a message to Sasuke is true, he would have done so with the knowledge he gave something else to Naruto as well to help him in bringing Sasuke back or enable him to fight on par with Sasuke. Which is why I think the gift isn't just one thing but a combination.
Ok, these 2 paragraphs are just absurd to me. Basically you are saying the reason why sasuke wants itachi's eyes is not because he is quick for power, going blind, and wants to kill naruto as the story has told us, but because itachi gave naruto the power to have sasuke see a vision of itachi witch was never shown and couldn't have happened since sasuke had that metaphoric type talk with naruto not itachi while clashing. But apparently itachi gave him another gift to compensate for sasuke having an EMS!? Ok, all this theory is really saying is that sasuke doesn't want itachi's eyes because of his inner drive to kill naruto but beacuse something that we should have seen and never happened happened.
Itachi knows just about everything there is to know about the Uchiha AND Madara which is why I think the gift right now is being underrated.Ok, no he didn't. It has already been proven that he knew that madara might survive sasuke's amterasu surprise, but madara said so himself that itachi didn't know everything about him. When you think about it, why would he!? Madara is one of the most secretive characters in the story. If he says one spoiler it throws this forum into chaos (madara giving negato rinnegan). Not to mention we haven't seen his face, we don't know what the deal is with his sharingan, how he can replace limbs, etc. and madara wouldn't be willing to tell itachi any of this either considering he knew he didn't trust him. Right now itachi is being over rated, the gift isn't being under rated.
In bold

[Jinchiruuki]

You don't have to be an ass just because you don't agree and because of your opinion. Just saying. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Secondly here is my response:

To your first and second bolds: Why would it have been hinted? Do you know Kishi? No. You don't know what Kishi would have done. It doesn't HAVE to be hinted in any sort of way. Of course he had no hesitation when he said it. As you said he was going blind, wanted to kill Naruto etc, but his eyes had been losing their sight for how long again? So why the wait? Considering he has been saying he wanted to kill Naruto for a long time why did he wait? If you have an answer for that let me know. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again you say things as if you're the one writing the story when you are not. There have been many occasions in this series we have seen flashbacks out of no where that show something extra to what we saw happen beforehand. An example would be Itachi putting his finger on Sasuke's forehead and saying what he said to him before he died like he used to when they were young...we didn't know about anything of him transferring powers to Sasuke until later. This gift of Itachi's is not a compensation but an ace in the hole that is certain.

To your third bold: While Madara said that, it doesn't mean it is true. For all we know Itachi could have known much more than he revealed to anyone. He obviously knew of Danzo's ties with Madara. We have seen parts of Madara's face too which look scarred/wrinkled. And no Itachi is not being overrated. While you are definitly entitled to your opinion, stating it with a minimalist attitude that is borderline egotistical just makes you look like an idiot.

There you go. Have a good one.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I had a good one. and so did you.

[JazzJunkie4]

You don't have to be an ass just because you don't agree and because of your opinion. Just saying. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Secondly here is my response:

To your first and second bolds: Why would it have been hinted? Do you know Kishi? No. You don't know what Kishi would have done.Do you? I'm just saying I disagree and this wouldn't make sense, I'm not necessarily saying I know for sure. But from what I have seen from kishi as a writer I wouldn't say he would ever do anything like this. It doesn't HAVE to be hinted in any sort of way. Of course he had no hesitation when he said it. As you said he was going blind, wanted to kill Naruto etc, but his eyes had been losing their sight for how long again? So why the wait? Considering he has been saying he wanted to kill Naruto for a long time why did he wait? If you have an answer for that let me know.They just clashed if you would remember correctly. Naruto gave him his response and sasuke started having a period on his face saying stuff like "I don't want to understand you and I WILL kill you first". We don't know exactly how long his eyes had been deteriorating, but when sasuke started screaming and exclaimed "my vision" then we can assume it wasn't as bad as that before. Everything came into alignment. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again you say things as if you're the one writing the story when you are not. I'm just saying I disagree and don't think it is logical to say something that is highly significant should have been shown and wasn't shown happened There have been many occasions in this series we have seen flashbacks out of no where that show something extra to what we saw happen beforehand. An example would be Itachi putting his finger on Sasuke's forehead and saying what he said to him before he died like he used to when they were young...we didn't know about anything of him transferring powers to Sasuke until later.But there was a mystery shrouding why he did that. That is totally different from this situation. There is no mystery to why sasuke now wants itachi's eyes. This gift of Itachi's is not a compensation but an ace in the hole that is certain.

To your third bold: While Madara said that, it doesn't mean it is true. For all we know Itachi could have known much more than he revealed to anyone. He obviously knew of Danzo's ties with Madara. ...what are those exactly. I know they know each other and stuff both how exactly is danzo affiliated with madara. They are enemies aren't they. Could you clarify? But either way it doesn't prove anything. We have seen parts of Madara's face too which look scarred/wrinkled. Oh ya his eyes... we have seen that on kakashi too and yet we can still say we haven't seen his face. And no Itachi is not being overrated.Once again just 2 different opinions While you are definitly entitled to your opinion, stating it with a minimalist attitude that is borderline egotistical just makes you look like an idiot. I'm just saying I strongly disagree with this theory and have given my reasons. You are the one calling me an idiot and an ass.

There you go. Have a good one.

In Bold

look I don't know how long you have been in town book store, but sometimes debates can get heated and if you go around calling people and ass and an idiot just because they disagree with you then you are not only making you're self look bad but turn the debate into nothing but tasteless name calling. I never attacked you're intelligence or called you anything bad, I just put down my opinion. If you don't like it fine, but don't take my opinion personally.

[kalmeast]

This is actually inspired by Deidara330's mentionings on his theory/theories.

Now we all have had many ideas as to what this "gift" is.

Defense against genjutsu, a new jutsu or a mental spirit (like the 4th in Naruto's seal) that sent/sends messages to Sasuke when him and Naruto meet.

Now I believe Deidara330's theory is correct. But I also think there is more to it. As of right now, no jutsu in Naruto OR Sasuke's arsenal is capable of standing toe to toe with Madara...and maybe even Kabuto.

Something we do know though (if Deidara330's theory is correct) is that a mental image would produce itself in the form of the person, which as shown by Naruto when seeing the 4th CAN become "physical" to some degree. If you didn't see D330's theory, he believes that the gift was a message/imprint of Itachi to appear to Sasuke each time they clashed. Hence the theory that Itachi influenced Sasuke into wanting to transplant Itachi's eyes RIGHT after seeing Naruto on the bridge.

Also take into consideration:

What other technique makes a persons mental/physical form phase in and out of reality?...a projection of sorts(besides the Death Reaper Seal but I think that it is more PNJ with the 4th doing it with that..) Izanagi.

I can't really say "knowing Itachi and his planning ahead" as that is kind of overhyping and probably stretching out wayyy too far...as is this whole theory for that matter.

Either way I find that technique to be much broader than just what we have seen so far or at least it COULD be. It would also make sense due to Naruto having DNA of the Hokage already and Itachi having the DNA of the Uchiha which both are required for this Jutsu to work.

Itachi saying "I hope you never have to use it" also indicated that whatever he did give Naruto, it would be a ace in the hole of sorts that would be of the utmost cost or would have a very high risk in its use...Izanagi as far as we know permanently closes off a sharingan, but what about someone who doesn't have any?

Also, considering that Izanagi would enable Naruto to fight near on par with Madara or be able to fight Sasuke to his fullest potential without fear of killing Sasuke or himself..I find this to be plausible. OR to think of it in another way what if Sasuke turns on Madara? Knowing Naruto he would sacrifice himself to save Sasuke..Izanagi would be a fitting way of doing just that.

What else is there that would bring him to say "I hope you don't have to use it"?


Hey forgive me if i should sound overly assertive, i hope i don get rushed...

Your theory is interesting but it lacks the ability to stand at any instant only because it is based on a foundation which in itself is flawed... therefore everything goes down with it.

Ok...this is why
Itachi never knew that sasuke would know the truth about him, because he didn't know madara knew it either... so at the point he gave naruto power, that power couldn't be anything of a sort of message to sasuke whom itachi knows hates him and never trust him. itachi could not assume sasuke (his forever enemy from sasuke's perspective) would listen to him and hence plant such a jutsu to tell sasuke to "wear" his eyes... u see, that doesn't make sense...

From itachi's perspective, even now, sasuke doesn't know the truth about him. he couldn't have thought that sasuke would take his enemy's (itachi) advice, especially considering that it's coming from another enemy, Naruto...

The theory is forgetful of this particular instant dont you think?


...The second part of your theory which is Izanagi is very possible and it complements the fact that Naruto said both himself and sasuke would die if they fought...That is such an important remark that should happen (otherwise naruto was wrong and he's not not a top ninja who can read minds by trading fist lol)...

[Jinchiruuki]

Hey forgive me if i should sound overly assertive, i hope i don get rushed...

Your theory is interesting but it lacks the ability to stand at any instant only because it is based on a foundation which in itself is flawed... therefore everything goes down with it.

Ok...this is why
Itachi never knew that sasuke would know the truth about him, because he didn't know madara knew it either... so at the point he gave naruto power, that power couldn't be anything of a sort of message to sasuke whom itachi knows hates him and never trust him. itachi could not assume sasuke (his forever enemy from sasuke's perspective) would listen to him and hence plant such a jutsu to tell sasuke to "wear" his eyes... u see, that doesn't make sense...

From itachi's perspective, even now, sasuke doesn't know the truth about him. he couldn't have thought that sasuke would take his enemy's (itachi) advice, especially considering that it's coming from another enemy, Naruto...

The theory is forgetful of this particular instant dont you think?

And you are basing yours on the same thing?

How do you know Itachi didn't know those things? Exactly you don't. So your allegations are also flawed in that sense. There is nothing to say that Itachi didn't know about Madara or wouldn't predict Madara trying to talk to Sasuke except for whos words? Madaras. And ironically we still don't know for sure if he really is who he says nor can we fully believe everything he says as he is a villain.

This is pure theoretical so obviously there will be holes in it as there are in most theories.

And Itachi is not Sasuke's enemy, considering Sasuke awakened his MS from the pain of the realization that Itachi was in fact the brother he had always been, Itachi is no longer an enemy to Sasuke...hence Sasuke now wanting to crush the leaf village and hence him killing Danzo due to what Danzo put Itachi through before the Massacre and him going Rogue.

[Jinchiruuki]

In Bold

look I don't know how long you have been in town book store, but sometimes debates can get heated and if you go around calling people and ass and an idiot just because they disagree with you then you are not only making you're self look bad but turn the debate into nothing but tasteless name calling. I never attacked you're intelligence or called you anything bad, I just put down my opinion. If you don't like it fine, but don't take my opinion personally.

I've been here for a while kid.

And yes they can get heated. But when a moron such as yourself can't present an argument or debate without sounding like an egotistical ass it doesn't really do much for the thread now does it? I ignored your bold because it's clear you're a child and lack the mental capacity to have a mature debate with someone on a theory.

I clearly stated before it is a theory. And that it is a stretch..see OP for those words.

Nice try on acting big bud :p try again next time.

[JazzJunkie4]

Hey forgive me if i should sound overly assertive, i hope i don get rushed...

Your theory is interesting but it lacks the ability to stand at any instant only because it is based on a foundation which in itself is flawed... therefore everything goes down with it.

Ok...this is why
Itachi never knew that sasuke would know the truth about him, because he didn't know madara knew it either... so at the point he gave naruto power, that power couldn't be anything of a sort of message to sasuke whom itachi knows hates him and never trust him. itachi could not assume sasuke (his forever enemy from sasuke's perspective) would listen to him and hence plant such a jutsu to tell sasuke to "wear" his eyes... u see, that doesn't make sense...

From itachi's perspective, even now, sasuke doesn't know the truth about him. he couldn't have thought that sasuke would take his enemy's (itachi) advice, especially considering that it's coming from another enemy, Naruto...

The theory is forgetful of this particular instant dont you think?

actually itachi knew that sasuke COULD become evil.

THis is why

1. He asked naruto what he would do if killing itachi wasn't enough and he tried to destroy konoha

2. Ameteratsu planted at sight of madara

naruto was the fail safe incase ameteratsu didn't work and madara told sasuke the truth to win him over. Madara even said that itachi didn't want the two of them meeting. So IF that were to happen, which it did, then sasuke would need to be stopped hence itachi asking naruto what he would do if this were to happen. So it is safe to say that itachi knew that sasuke might be turned to the dark side.

[JazzJunkie4]

I've been here for a while kid.

And yes they can get heated. But when a moron such as yourself can't present an argument or debate without sounding like an egotistical ass it doesn't really do much for the thread now does it? I ignored your bold because it's clear you're a child and lack the mental capacity to have a mature debate with someone on a theory.

I clearly stated before it is a theory. And that it is a stretch..see OP for those words.

Nice try on acting big bud :p try again next time.

Excuse me!? Who is sounding like the egotistical ass right now, the one actually debating or the one "ignoring" the other's comment and calling them an ass, a moron, and an idiot? You have lost all respect I might have had for you, "I ignored your bold because it's clear you're a child and lack the mental capacity to have a mature debate with someone on a theory." You are the one being immature here bro, you aren't even talking about the theory now! I haven't said a word against you, you're intelligence, or anything personal about you. I have actually been debating about the theory while you on the other hand are just name calling because you can't disprove my comments in bold. If you are too immature to debate then don't. You aren't going to get very far in life if you can't disagree with someone without taking it personally and resorting to childish name calling and tantrums. I think the people reading this will be able to tell who the real moron is.

[Jonesy]

Excuse me!? Who is sounding like the egotistical ass right now, the one actually debating or the one "ignoring" the other's comment and calling them an ass, a moron, and an idiot? You have lost all respect I might have had for you, "I ignored your bold because it's clear you're a child and lack the mental capacity to have a mature debate with someone on a theory." You are the one being immature here bro, I haven't said a word against you, you're intelligence, or anything personal about you. I have actually been debating about the theory while you on the other hand are just name calling because you can't disprove my comments in bold. If you are too immature to debate then don't. You aren't going to get very far in life if you can't disagree with someone without taking it personally and resorting to childish name calling and tantrums. I think the people reading this will be able to tell who the real moron is.

Yeah, you're the moron. o.O

You apparently don't know who Jin is.

[JazzJunkie4]

Yeah, you're the moron. o.O

You apparently don't know who Jin is.

who is jin? what does that have to do with this. Read the debate, you really think because I was actually debating and not name calling like Killer Bee that I am the moron? Please explain sir.

[kalmeast]

And you are basing yours on the same thing?

How do you know Itachi didn't know those things? Exactly you don't. So your allegations are also flawed in that sense. There is nothing to say that Itachi didn't know about Madara or wouldn't predict Madara trying to talk to Sasuke except for whos words? Madaras. And ironically we still don't know for sure if he really is who he says nor can we fully believe everything he says as he is a villain.

This is pure theoretical so obviously there will be holes in it as there are in most theories.

And Itachi is not Sasuke's enemy, considering Sasuke awakened his MS from the pain of the realization that Itachi was in fact the brother he had always been, Itachi is no longer an enemy to Sasuke...hence Sasuke now wanting to crush the leaf village and hence him killing Danzo due to what Danzo put Itachi through before the Massacre and him going Rogue.

Waw..... i cant tell you how many theories i came up wit and immediately someone point a big hole, i let go and rethink it... i think we all helping each other here, that's the beauty of Naruto and this forum correct?...

i need not argue because it seems you're already battling it wit someone else, recapitulating would be pointless since you're not one to listen...

Although it seems that you did not understand my answer to you concerning Itach's perspectives... it's a double layered argument i'm making, u have to see if from the back to the front... u have to see it as all things being equal and use Madara's statement i.e. "itachi doesn't know i know the truth about him" as a determinant...
this phrase couldn't be a presumption b'cos it's a physical fact. Whether or not it's a lie is not for us to determine...

a good argument is based on the variables given... when it fails, because one variable was misrepresented, then the arguer can earn vindication... but in your case, to neglect a given variable and replace it with another which satisfies your pre-determined conditions is a perversion...

[mrsticky005]

I think the vision part is right but I don't think it's happened yet.
I think it's a genjutsu that activates at a near death moment.
That way Naruto and Sasuke will fight and then ALMOST kill each
other and then TA DA Itachi appears in a genjutsu to remind us to...

http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum_original/images/avatars/gallery/shippuden/avatar_itachi.gifBUCKLE UP! IT'S THE LAW!

And then Sasuke will realize he's an idiot.

[kalmeast]

actually itachi knew that sasuke COULD become evil.

THis is why

1. He asked naruto what he = would do if killing itachi wasn't enough and he tried to destroy konoha

2. Ameteratsu planted at sight of madara

naruto was the fail safe incase ameteratsu didn't work and madara told sasuke the truth to win him over. Madara even said that itachi didn't want the two of them meeting. So IF that were to happen, which it did, then sasuke would need to be stopped hence itachi asking naruto what he would do if this were to happen. So it is safe to say that itachi knew that sasuke might be turned to the dark side.

haha...i'm not arguing that itachi didn't know that sasuke would go to the evil side...

1, i'm arguing that itachi didn't know that madara knew the truth about him itachi...correct? (this sentence here is the Principal and determinant because it's a given fact and everything below hinges on it)

2. If he knew Madara didn't, then even if sasuke goes to evil madara's side, Sasuke still wouldn't know the truth about itachi correct?

3. Then sasuke who still doens't know itachi is good and did all this for his sake would still hate itachi, correct?

4. Sasuke who still hates itachi, could not heed to any message itachi would give him through naruto, would he?

5. so then my little intelligent itachi wouldn't plant a message through naruto to Sasuke, would he?

That is my argument!... hope this is simple.



"Behead a dragon once and you're a Legend; behead it twice and you're only a Myth."

[Jinchiruuki]

Yeah, you're the moron. o.O

You apparently don't know who Jin is.

Lol Iknowright?

Excuse me!? Who is sounding like the egotistical ass right now, the one actually debating or the one "ignoring" the other's comment and calling them an ass, a moron, and an idiot? You have lost all respect I might have had for you, "I ignored your bold because it's clear you're a child and lack the mental capacity to have a mature debate with someone on a theory." You are the one being immature here bro, you aren't even talking about the theory now! I haven't said a word against you, you're intelligence, or anything personal about you. I have actually been debating about the theory while you on the other hand are just name calling because you can't disprove my comments in bold. If you are too immature to debate then don't. You aren't going to get very far in life if you can't disagree with someone without taking it personally and resorting to childish name calling and tantrums. I think the people reading this will be able to tell who the real moron is.

How can you have any respect for someone you don't even know? Or say that you did ?
I don't think calling a kid out such as yourself will negate me having a good future either. Also, look at your first reply. The way you present your end of the debate is definitly screaming superiority complex, check out your replies. I know some of my points may have flaws or holes and have admitted to that. You however have not.

Obviously I hit some buttons on the dot as you're getting pretty heated from what I said so I'll leave it at that.

I think the vision part is right but I don't think it's happened yet.
I think it's a genjutsu that activates at a near death moment.
That way Naruto and Sasuke will fight and then ALMOST kill each
other and then TA DA Itachi appears in a genjutsu to remind us to...

http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum_original/images/avatars/gallery/shippuden/avatar_itachi.gifBUCKLE UP! IT'S THE LAW!

And then Sasuke will realize he's an idiot.

See I think it is something like that too, but what the hell is going to help either Sasuke and Naruto battle Madara after? Obviously Itachi knew Madara was behind the first Kyuubi attack so he must've have known that his power was far beyond comprehension. A genjutsu to snap Sasuke back into reality is pointless if Madara just stomps em both.

Itachi planning this far ahead I would foresee something far more than just a genjutsu.

[JazzJunkie4]

Lol Iknowright?



How can you have any respect for someone you don't even know? Or say that you did ? I respect people around me. You don't have to know someone to respect them as an individual and fellow colleague in the game of life.
I don't think calling a kid out such as yourself will negate me having a good future either.If by calling me out you mean calling me names because you can't debate about you're theory then yes it will Also, look at your first reply. The way you present your end of the debate is definitly screaming superiority complex, check out your replies.No it isn't. Seriously you are simply taking my opinion personally. My tone is nowhere anymore superior than you're next response. I made sure to respect you're opinion and have simply disagreed. I'm not disagreeing with every thing you stand for, just you're theory, that is not being superior it is just good sport or at least that's what it is supposed to be. I know some of my points may have flaws or holes and have admitted to that.No you haven't. All you have been doing is calling me names and accusing me of being a jerk because I disagreed with you! You however have not. Not what! I WAS trying to have a mutually respectable debate but you keep turning it into a roast. I will admit to nothing for I have done nothing wrong.

Obviously I hit some buttons on the dot as you're getting pretty heated from what I said so I'll leave it at that. Because you calling me an ass, a moron, immature, a child, and an idiot shows you aren't right? Besides after doing what you just did who wouldn't be?





Bold

Go back and actually read my reply to you're second reply and this time actually read my comment in bold here. At least I have the courtesy to read the person's reply.

[JazzJunkie4]

haha...i'm not arguing that itachi didn't know that sasuke would go to the evil side...

1, i'm arguing that itachi didn't know that madara knew the truth about him itachi...correct? (this sentence here is the Principal and determinant because it's a given fact and everything below hinges on it) No this is incorrect. The proof is the auto activated ameteratsu which itachi set to activate upond madara's sharingan. This was an attempt to keep sasuke away from madara BECAUSE he did know the truth. After all, madara helped itachi assasinate the village. Like I said, if madara turned sasuke over then he would need to be stopped which is why itachi gave the gift to naruto. Naruto is the last resort.

2. If he knew Madara didn't, then even if sasuke goes to evil madara's side, Sasuke still wouldn't know the truth about itachi correct?

3. Then sasuke who still doens't know itachi is good and did all this for his sake would still hate itachi, correct?

4. Sasuke who still hates itachi, could not heed to any message itachi would give him through naruto, would he?

5. so then my little intelligent itachi wouldn't plant a message through naruto to Sasuke, would he?

That is my argument!... hope this is simple.



"Behead a dragon once and you're a Legend; behead it twice and you're only a Myth."

In Bold

[kalmeast]

In Bold

Yes, i did think about the fact that Madara helped him, that doesn't mean Itachi told him the reason. Madara himself had a vendetta against uchiha and that was an opportunity....

but read manga 398, you're right about itachi sealing amaterasu in sasuke to silence Madara, (and u even help my case further) but you're not correct to say because Madara knew...

No, Itachi didn't think he knew, he only guessed peradventure... chp 398, madara said
"but i know the truth about him too, as i told you, he (itachi) did not realize that"... then again he said "Itachi is cautious"... "on the off chance that I might know the truth, he tried to seal my mouth with amaterasu"
then he also said earlier there were only 4 ppl who know the truth...that did not include madara...

I say u help my case the more because if itachi was trying to take madara out so he doesnt get to sasuke, then it only means the more impossible for sasuke to get the chance to know the truth about him (cus he's silencing the person who might know it and tell him).. if that is the case, then of course he couldnt at the same time give naruto a gift which is a message to sasuke, whom he's trying to keep the truth away from. this is a contradiction... it's that simple.

mayb later there could b something like that, but as current, it certainly wasn't what prompted sasuke to "wear" the eyes... that's my argument.

[JazzJunkie4]

Yes, i did think about the fact that Madara helped him, that doesn't mean Itachi told him the reason. Madara himself had a vendetta against uchiha and that was an opportunity....

but read manga 398, you're right about itachi sealing amaterasu in sasuke to silence Madara, (and u even help my case further) but you're not correct to say because Madara knew...

No, Itachi didn't think he knew, he only guessed peradventure... chp 398, madara said
"but i know the truth about him too, as i told you, he (itachi) did not realize that"... then again he said "Itachi is cautious"... "on the off chance that I might know the truth, he tried to seal my mouth with amaterasu" Exactly he was cautious and recognized madara could have known. But he also recognized madara might survive which is why he asked naruto what he would do if sasuke betrayed the leaf and killing him wasn't enough. He is basically saying that he knows the ameterasu might fail and is taking special precautions.
then he also said earlier there were only 4 ppl who know the truth...that did not include madara...That's because he would be including himself

I say u help my case the more because if itachi was trying to take madara out so he doesnt get to sasuke, then it only means the more impossible for sasuke to get the chance to know the truth about him (cus he's silencing the person who might know it and tell him).. if that is the case, then of course he couldnt at the same time give naruto a gift which is a message to sasuke, whom he's trying to keep the truth away from. this is a contradiction... it's that simple. You are still missing the point. The Ameterasu was not the last resort. Naruto was. Itachi knew that his ameterasu could fail and that is why he asked naruto what he asked and gave him the gift which will help him to stop sasuke as a last resort.

mayb later there could b something like that, but as current, it certainly wasn't what prompted sasuke to "wear" the eyes... that's my argument.Definitely yes. i just don't agree with how you came to that conclusion
Bold

Read my response carefully. You missed my main point in my previous post. No biggie, I made sure to specify here that Itachi knew that ameterasu might fail which is why he gave naruto the gift upon hearing his answer on what he would do with sasuke.

[kalmeast]

Bold

Read my response carefully. You missed my main point in my previous post. No biggie, I made sure to specify here that Itachi knew that ameterasu might fail which is why he gave naruto the gift upon hearing his answer on what he would do with sasuke.

There're four ppl who know...it's not including himself...it's homura, koharu, danzo and 3rd Hokage...that makes 4.

btw... we are on two different wavelengths arguing the same thing that compliment each other... my first post was in defense of your first post, because you said, "no man", that couldn't be a vision of itachi that prompted sasuke to want the eyes... so my response was in analyses of why you're right...then i dont know what happened, we start arguing in opposition...that's just so hilarious...i'm out...it was nice debating wit ya..

[JazzJunkie4]

There're four ppl who know...it's not including himself...it's homura, koharu, danzo and 3rd Hokage...that makes 4.

btw... we are on two different wavelengths arguing the same thing that compliment each other... my first post was in defense of your first post, because you said, "no man", that couldn't be a vision of itachi that prompted sasuke to want the eyes... so my response was in analyses of why you're right...then i dont know what happened, we start arguing in opposition...that's just so hilarious...i'm out...it was nice debating wit ya..

haha, yes it's actually fun debating with someone with some maturity.

[mrsticky005]

Lol Iknowright?



How can you have any respect for someone you don't even know? Or say that you did ?
I don't think calling a kid out such as yourself will negate me having a good future either. Also, look at your first reply. The way you present your end of the debate is definitly screaming superiority complex, check out your replies. I know some of my points may have flaws or holes and have admitted to that. You however have not.

Obviously I hit some buttons on the dot as you're getting pretty heated from what I said so I'll leave it at that.



See I think it is something like that too, but what the hell is going to help either Sasuke and Naruto battle Madara after? Obviously Itachi knew Madara was behind the first Kyuubi attack so he must've have known that his power was far beyond comprehension. A genjutsu to snap Sasuke back into reality is pointless if Madara just stomps em both.

Itachi planning this far ahead I would foresee something far more than just a genjutsu.


It's really quite simple what's going to help them defeat Madara....

TEAMWORK!

Both Naruto and Sasuke alone will be weaker than Madara
but together they will outmatch Madara. Ken and Ryu beats M Bison.
It may sound cheesy but that's usually how these things work out.

Sage Mode and Mangekyo Sharingan will be but a fraction of Naruto and Sasuke's powers when they fight each other.

[Jinchiruuki]

It's really quite simple what's going to help them defeat Madara....

TEAMWORK!

Both Naruto and Sasuke alone will be weaker than Madara
but together they will outmatch Madara. Ken and Ryu beats M Bison.
It may sound cheesy but that's usually how these things work out.

Sage Mode and Mangekyo Sharingan will be but a fraction of Naruto and Sasuke's powers when they fight each other.

Teamwork? That's it?

That's the only thing the epic mrsticky can come up with?!

I SAY NAYYY!!!! :lol:

Ok teamwork maybe but I'd think there'd be something to be an "ace in the hole" of sorts. Nearly every major fight we have seen Sasuke or Naruto in, they come with an "ace in the hole" to overcome it (besides the obvious PNJ).

Naruto vs Kakuzu--Incomplete Wind Style Rasen Shuriken
Sasuke vs Itachi-- Kirin..although this fight was totally PNJ'd to the max.
Sasuke vs Killer Bee-- Amaterasu and getting the ability to manipulate it (Inferno Style).
Sasuke vs Raikage, Gaara, Danzo etc -- Susano'o which is incomplete but then becomes complete
Naruto vs Pain-- Sage Mode/Complete WRS

Before every major fight they have, a new ability of some sort comes about. Sasuke vs Oro, Deidara etc were all fodder fights.

[mrsticky005]

Teamwork? That's it?

That's the only thing the epic mrsticky can come up with?!

I SAY NAYYY!!!! :lol:

Ok teamwork maybe but I'd think there'd be something to be an "ace in the hole" of sorts. Nearly every major fight we have seen Sasuke or Naruto in, they come with an "ace in the hole" to overcome it (besides the obvious PNJ).

Naruto vs Kakuzu--Incomplete Wind Style Rasen Shuriken
Sasuke vs Itachi-- Kirin..although this fight was totally PNJ'd to the max.
Sasuke vs Killer Bee-- Amaterasu and getting the ability to manipulate it (Inferno Style).
Sasuke vs Raikage, Gaara, Danzo etc -- Susano'o which is incomplete but then becomes complete
Naruto vs Pain-- Sage Mode/Complete WRS

Before every major fight they have, a new ability of some sort comes about. Sasuke vs Oro, Deidara etc were all fodder fights.


Hey I'm not saying what it SHOULD be I'm saying how it's GONNA be.

The Ace in the hole will be some sorta of Team Attack.
I have no idea what it will be just that it will require two people.

You might think that team work is unlikely because well it just doesn't make sense for enemies (even if they were friends) to team up, right?

But then that is exactly why it will happen. BECAUSE it makes no sense.

It's like Final Fantasy 4. You think there's no way that Cecil and Kain
could EVER team up with the countless times that Kain has betrayed
Cecil (worse than Sasuke actually) but guess what happens?

Team work may be the oldest cliche in the book but it works.

Besides the Zabuza arc has shown that Naruto and Sasuke although
always at each other's necks are naturally good at team work.
Even more evidence for the inevitable is that the one time they
worked together to fight Zabuza he was from the Hidden Mist.
Now we know Madara/Tobi is the 4th Mizukage De Facto.

And another thing what's more likely. My "the power of friendship" theory?
Or other's "Naruto is going to turn Sasuke into sauce, blind Madara with it before exploding him into a bloody mess and then afterwards he's gonna score with both Sakura, Hinata and Rock Lee.

Do remember the difference between what we want to happen and what will happen.

[Jinchiruuki]

Hey I'm not saying what it SHOULD be I'm saying how it's GONNA be.

The Ace in the hole will be some sorta of Team Attack.
I have no idea what it will be just that it will require two people.

You might think that team work is unlikely because well it just doesn't make sense for enemies (even if they were friends) to team up, right?

But then that is exactly why it will happen. BECAUSE it makes no sense.

It's like Final Fantasy 4. You think there's no way that Cecil and Kain
could EVER team up with the countless times that Kain has betrayed
Cecil (worse than Sasuke actually) but guess what happens?

Team work may be the oldest cliche in the book but it works.

Besides the Zabuza arc has shown that Naruto and Sasuke although
always at each other's necks are naturally good at team work.
Even more evidence for the inevitable is that the one time they
worked together to fight Zabuza he was from the Hidden Mist.
Now we know Madara/Tobi is the 4th Mizukage De Facto.

And another thing what's more likely. My "the power of friendship" theory?
Or other's "Naruto is going to turn Sasuke into sauce, blind Madara with it before exploding him into a bloody mess and then afterwards he's gonna score with both Sakura, Hinata and Rock Lee.

Do remember the difference between what we want to happen and what will happen.


True xD

Alright alright I surrender Stickster.

I'm anxious to see you be proven wrong! :lol:

[Kreegah!!!]

Itachi gave Naruto the power to dissolve into many crows upon what would ordinarily be a death blow, resolving into Itachi - with Uzumaki bloodline traits and the kyuubi. End war, Leaf rises to the top, and all's well. He even becomes Hokage, sort of fulfilling Naruto's dream. ET Itachi roflcopterstomps Kabuto before falling apart, revealing that it was just a soul clone. Sasuke does NOT survive, but the clan is rebuilt from the seed of Itachi and Sakura, which essentially helps fill every dream, doesn't it?

This is my fundamental endgame prediction.

[mrsticky005]

True xD

Alright alright I surrender Stickster.

I'm anxious to see you be proven wrong! :lol:

Me too. :cool:

Sai Shaft defeats Madara!

[Jinchiruuki]

Itachi gave Naruto the power to dissolve into many crows upon what would ordinarily be a death blow, resolving into Itachi - with Uzumaki bloodline traits and the kyuubi. End war, Leaf rises to the top, and all's well. He even becomes Hokage, sort of fulfilling Naruto's dream. ET Itachi roflcopterstomps Kabuto before falling apart, revealing that it was just a soul clone. Sasuke does NOT survive, but the clan is rebuilt from the seed of Itachi and Sakura, which essentially helps fill every dream, doesn't it?

This is my fundamental endgame prediction.

Wot...xD

Me too. :cool:

Sai Shaft defeats Madara!

And then Sai Shaft marries Sakura, Ino and Hinata...making ink babies everywhere.

[mrsticky005]

Wot...xD



And then Sai Shaft marries Sakura, Ino and Hinata...making ink babies everywhere.

Sai Shaft "Uh...Marriage. I'm not sure I can dig that. A brother needs his
freedom if you nahamsane. "

[Jinchiruuki]

Sai Shaft "Uh...Marriage. I'm not sure I can dig that. A brother needs his
freedom if you nahamsane. "

Ok he becomes a pimp then, and impregnates every female character to have ever existed..

[mrsticky005]

Ok he becomes a pimp then, and impregnates every female character to have ever existed..

Sai Shaft approved!

[Kreegah!!!]

^also an acceptable series ender. Go, Sai Shaft!

[Jinchiruuki]

Then all of the sudden...*BOOMCRASHSMASH*

A REINCARNATION OF THE KYUUBI PLOPS OUT OF ONE OF THE WOMENZ WOMBS! RAWR!

[mrsticky005]

Then all of the sudden...*BOOMCRASHSMASH*

A REINCARNATION OF THE KYUUBI PLOPS OUT OF ONE OF THE WOMENZ WOMBS! RAWR!

Yes and in the meanwhile Sai Shaft has to run from...

CHILD SUPPORT COLLECTOR! (http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=17340)!

[Kreegah!!!]

Yes and in the meanwhile Sai Shaft has to run from...

CHILD SUPPORT COLLECTOR! (http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=17340)!


Who is collecting payments for Pregnant Rhino (http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=28675)!

[Jinchiruuki]

And the Rhino is in fact the reincarnation of Sasuke! OH SNAP!

[Jinchiruuki]

haha, yes it's actually fun debating with someone with some maturity.

And you downrepped me without the courage to leave your real name. Bravo :lol:

Cheers to maturity AMIRIGHT?!

[JazzJunkie4]

And you downrepped me without the courage to leave your real name. Bravo :lol:

Cheers to maturity AMIRIGHT?!

I DID NOT DOWN REP YOU. Don't be so quick to start pointing fingers. Now I too have lost rep because you have assumed it is me and decided to down rep me. I always leave my name when I rep and I never down rep. Once again you prove my point about being immature. Who ever did down rep him, leave you're name next time to avoid future incidents like this.

[Jinchiruuki]

Either way I was going to downrep you so you can go ahead and return the favor :p

[JazzJunkie4]

Either way I was going to downrep you so you can go ahead and return the favor :p

Like I said, I don't down rep. Either way you are and would be down repping me out of immaturity because you threw a tantrum because you're theory has holes and I pointed them out. You may have been shut down by my debating, but that is no reason to be a pore sport about it. Return the favor? What are you in kindergarten. I hope next time you get into a debate about a theory with someone that you respect their opinions and acknowledge that they are entitled to them as you claim to understand but obviously don't. Then again as kalmeast stated, you obviously aren't one to listen.

[Jinchiruuki]

Like I said, I don't down rep. Either way you are and would be down repping me out of immaturity because you threw a tantrum because you're theory has holes and I pointed them out. You may have been shut down by my debating, but that is no reason to be a pore sport about it. Return the favor? What are you in kindergarten. I hope next time you get into a debate about a theory with someone that you respect their opinions and acknowledge that they are entitled to them as you claim to understand but obviously don't. Then again as kalmeast stated, you obviously aren't one to listen.

I did respect your opinions at first if you look at my reply to your first one. Your second reply however I was not so respectful of because of the way you presented it. Plain and simple but I understand why that is hard for you to understand. Again you are too egotistical to see that. I find it humorous you call me immature :lol: Really it makes me laugh.

Actually I listened to kalmeast and listened to your first post. The rest of your posts were just opinion bashes though so I ignored them.

Who threw the tantrum again? ;)

[JazzJunkie4]

I did respect your opinions at first if you look at my reply to your first one. Your second reply however I was not so respectful of because of the way you presented it.Once again, you are taking it way too personally. Besides, even if it were disrespectful it is no where near the level of disrespect you have given me from then on out. Plain and simple but I understand why that is hard for you to understand. Again you are too egotistical to see that. Like I said, you are taking it personally. I am not being egotistical at all. I have given you my opinion and have pointed out holes and flaws in you're argument about this theory. But once again you are not one to listen.I find it humorous you call me immature :lol: Really it makes me laugh. Because you calling me an ass, a moron, an idiot, immature, and a child shows you are mature, right:D If you were mature you wouldn't take my opinions and observations personally and to the extent that you did. I guess ignorance is bliss. Have fun.

Actually I listened to kalmeast and listened to your first post. The rest of your posts were just opinion bashes though so I ignored them. No they weren't they were defenses against YOU'RE personal bashes. Opinion bashing happens in debates if there are holes. Like I said, you won't get very far in life if you can't swallow an opinion based argument without throwing a tantrum an calling the other person names and bashing them outside of the context of the theory being discussed.

Who threw the tantrum again? ;) You. I'm defending myself against you're tantrum. ;)

In bold
Enjoy you're misunderstanding sir

[Jinchiruuki]

Lmao thanks for the laughs kid :lol: that last post just made my day.

[JazzJunkie4]

"ignorance is bliss".

Thank you for proving my point for me:D

[Jinchiruuki]

"ignorance is bliss".

Thank you for proving my point for me:D

Is it? So why aren't you ignoring me?

Thanks for proving my point for me ;)

[Inuyasha]

I think it will effect Sasuke's or Madara's MS

[Jinchiruuki]

I think it will effect Sasuke's or Madara's MS

I like this idea or thought rather, but could you elaborate as to why you think that?

[kalmeast]

@killerBee and JazzJunkie4...

i nvr wanted to interfere but something funny crossed my mind and i hope u two get a laugh out of it...

this argument is about Itachi, the very character who doesn't mind other's wrong perception about him, and wouldn't bother to explain, or even defend himself,...(which was the cool thing we all liked about him)
for us arguing continually to prove our point in his stead was pretty ironic dont you think...lol

btw, i think you two are pretty smart...and should melt the ice soon.

[kalmeast]

I like this idea or thought rather, but could you elaborate as to why you think that?

I had a similar theory before, that the gift to Naruto is Uchiha gene (which is obvious)... so that itachi has planted a cause which will self activated izanagi should Naruto die attempting to save sasuke... But since Sasuke has the real Itachi's eyes, when izanagi is performed and naruto comes back to life, sasuke's sharingan will shut... remember naruto's sage jutsu, (whatever, happens to the clone will happen to the original).. if sasuke looses one eye, he would not try to kill naruto again because his other eyes would suffer the consequence. this is the only thing that would stop sasuke...
So what itachi had done was to link Naruto to sasuke with his sharingan.

unfortunately, it's only a guess.

[Jinchiruuki]

I had a similar theory before, that the gift to Naruto is Uchiha gene (which is obvious)... so that itachi has planted a cause which will self activated izanagi should Naruto die attempting to save sasuke... But since Sasuke has the real Itachi's eyes, when izanagi is performed and naruto comes back to life, sasuke's sharingan will shut... remember naruto's sage jutsu, (whatever, happens to the clone will happen to the original).. if sasuke looses one eye, he would not try to kill naruto again because his other eyes would suffer the consequence. this is the only thing that would stop sasuke...
So what itachi had done was to link Naruto to sasuke with his sharingan.

unfortunately, it's only a guess.

While it is only a guess, it definitly could be plausible.
I guess we will see in due time, but I find your ideas and a few of mine to be very possible given what has been shown/said thus far.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Defense against genjutsu
Right there. Can be acquired regardless of a gift.

[Phazonous]

Itachi gave Naruto the power so he can beat Madara/Sasuke.

Also Itachi said he hopes that naruto doesn't use the power so it might be deadly.

Can't wait to see it! :D

And yeah, Genjutsu can be deactivated by using a certain hand and saying "Release". I don't know if the Genjutsu that the sharingan uses can be deactivated though. The only one who broke through Itachi's Genjutsu was Sasuke.

[Hyuuga Heir]

Itachi gave Naruto the power so he can beat Madara/Sasuke.

Also Itachi said he hopes that naruto doesn't use the power so it might be deadly.

Can't wait to see it! :D

And yeah, Genjutsu can be deactivated by using a certain hand and saying "Release". I don't know if the Genjutsu that the sharingan uses can be deactivated though. The only one who broke through Itachi's Genjutsu was Sasuke.

You are forgetting Kurenai, too. Back in part 1 of the series when Itachi and Kisame came back to the village. But even then I don't know if it was Tsukuyomi or Reverse Genjutsu.

[EvL j3st3r]

It wasn't Tsukuyomi. It was probably some kind of genjutsu that you would typically see of a Jonin level ninja.