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HokageNarutoUzamaki
03-09-2011, 01:36 PM
During the Chunin exams, when the byakugan was first encountered, Kakashi Sensei said that it is rumoured that the sharingan derived from the byakugan. What will this mean about the relationship between the Hyuga Clan and the Senju Clan?

EvL j3st3r
03-09-2011, 01:53 PM
I don't know what you're talking about as far as "the relationship between the Hyuuga clan and the Senju clan". I guess they both tie back to the RS but that's about it. I mean it's no different than the Uchiha's relationship to the Senju.

And the manga didn't specifically say sharingan derived from the byakugan. What Kakashi said is, "It's rumored that the Uchiha clan's origins lie with the Hyuuga." Doesn't mention anything directly about the Sharingan or Byakugan in this statement. However, it is the most plausible guess to say this would mean that Sharingan derived from Byakugan (which is what I personally believe).

We do have to account for the fact that Kakashi used the phrase "it is rumored". Kishi prolly did it like that so he could get out of it if he need to. Prolly didn't know exactly which direction he wanted to take at that time. Because he uses that phrase tho............Kishi could just cop out and be like, "nah. just a rumor. wasn't true.", even tho he went out of his way to write it in and take up page space back then. It's like why even write that to begin with. I would be very disappointed if Kishi just took it back.

Kreegah!!!
03-10-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't think it would really be a cop-out. Why should every rumour prove true? Look how well that played out for the Kink Squad. It was almost universally panned, especially when both Gin and Kin got owned faster than most expected. You could say that was all in the execution, but the more rumors you try to play out as true, the more you over-saturate your own mythos. I wouldn't dismiss the byakugan's importance or mysterious origins, but I just don't think it was the sharingan's progenitor. Maybe the other way around.

If RS really did only have two children (which was never to my knowledge stated, just that he had two sons/heirs - all by Madara's word for that matter), then it could be plausible that other family branches (like the Uzumaki) had grown apart from the two main lines, further dividing the RS's innate abilities across the board.

HokageNarutoUzamaki
03-10-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't think it would really be a cop-out. Why should every rumour prove true? Look how well that played out for the Kink Squad. It was almost universally panned, especially when both Gin and Kin got owned faster than most expected. You could say that was all in the execution, but the more rumors you try to play out as true, the more you over-saturate your own mythos. I wouldn't dismiss the byakugan's importance or mysterious origins, but I just don't think it was the sharingan's progenitor. Maybe the other way around.

If RS really did only have two children (which was never to my knowledge stated, just that he had two sons/heirs - all by Madara's word for that matter), then it could be plausible that other family branches (like the Uzumaki) had grown apart from the two main lines, further dividing the RS's innate abilities across the board.

Thanks for the reply,

I wasn't trying to state it as fact, I was just wondering, as a possible prediction the the future of the show

EvL j3st3r
03-10-2011, 11:36 AM
I don't think it would really be a cop-out. Why should every rumour prove true? Look how well that played out for the Kink Squad. It was almost universally panned, especially when both Gin and Kin got owned faster than most expected. You could say that was all in the execution, but the more rumors you try to play out as true, the more you over-saturate your own mythos. I wouldn't dismiss the byakugan's importance or mysterious origins, but I just don't think it was the sharingan's progenitor. Maybe the other way around.

If RS really did only have two children (which was never to my knowledge stated, just that he had two sons/heirs - all by Madara's word for that matter), then it could be plausible that other family branches (like the Uzumaki) had grown apart from the two main lines, further dividing the RS's innate abilities across the board.

If Kishi took that road he would be totally justified since he wrote "it is rumored". The reason I say it would be a cop-out if he went that way is bc for 1.....there was no point bringing it up in the first place if it wasn't true. He would've used a significant amount of page space for something that could directly effect a lot of what we think we know just to turn around and erase it. Also it's part of what hyped the Hyuuga and their Byakugan to begin with. Like I said before. Why waste time and effort writing it in the first place if it's just going to be brushed under the rug later. Hyuuga branch being the origin of the Uchiha would revive their clan and the Byakugan's relevance to the plot (and I think that's exactly what will happen).

kalmeast
03-10-2011, 03:20 PM
I don't know what you're talking about as far as "the relationship between the Hyuuga clan and the Senju clan". I guess they both tie back to the RS but that's about it. I mean it's no different than the Uchiha's relationship to the Senju.

And the manga didn't specifically say sharingan derived from the byakugan. What Kakashi said is, "It's rumored that the Uchiha clan's origins lie with the Hyuuga." Doesn't mention anything directly about the Sharingan or Byakugan in this statement. However, it is the most plausible guess to say this would mean that Sharingan derived from Byakugan (which is what I personally believe).

We do have to account for the fact that Kakashi used the phrase "it is rumored". Kishi prolly did it like that so he could get out of it if he need to. Prolly didn't know exactly which direction he wanted to take at that time. Because he uses that phrase tho............Kishi could just cop out and be like, "nah. just a rumor. wasn't true.", even tho he went out of his way to write it in and take up page space back then. It's like why even write that to begin with. I would be very disappointed if Kishi just took it back.

waw...that is really excellently put... i couldn't add anything...

Kreegah!!!
03-11-2011, 10:56 AM
If Kishi took that road he would be totally justified since he wrote "it is rumored". The reason I say it would be a cop-out if he went that way is bc for 1.....there was no point bringing it up in the first place if it wasn't true. He would've used a significant amount of page space for something that could directly effect a lot of what we think we know just to turn around and erase it. Also it's part of what hyped the Hyuuga and their Byakugan to begin with. Like I said before. Why waste time and effort writing it in the first place if it's just going to be brushed under the rug later. Hyuuga branch being the origin of the Uchiha would revive their clan and the Byakugan's relevance to the plot (and I think that's exactly what will happen).


Or he could have been deliberately misleading us on its origins from the very start.;) It wouldn't be a wast of time or space then, because he'd set out to fool us on purpose. Not to say that is his intention or that that will be his direction, but it's still plausible and decidedly uncopoutish.:ugeek:

EvL j3st3r
03-12-2011, 09:43 AM
Or he could have been deliberately misleading us on its origins from the very start.;) It wouldn't be a wast of time or space then, because he'd set out to fool us on purpose. Not to say that is his intention or that that will be his direction, but it's still plausible and decidedly uncopoutish.:ugeek:

yea I guess that's a possibility but not a very good one. The plot's just so thick. I mean it's kind of far-fetched to say that had the intention of setting up a twist like that with that much time in between. I think it's just more that he wanted to give himself the option to take the story either way later. That quote's from a very very long time ago. most ppl don't even remember it. If it were an intentional twist then there would be more emphasis put on the whole "Sharingan derived from Byakugan" thing. There would be more focus put on it and in turn it would be a stronger point in the mind's of the readers. Not much of a twist if the bulk of the readers don't remember what part of the plot is being twisted. It seems more like what Kishi is trying to do is let us forget that Kakashi ever mentioned that and push it to the back of our minds. I think he does that bc (like I said earlier) I think Kishi will use this to make the Hyuuga and their Byakugan relevant to the plot. If we have forgotten what Kakashi said then it will be a surprise to the readers but it won't be like Kishi just PNJ'd it in there since he will have that reference he made a long long time ago to go back to. Again, I don't think that was his plan ever since he said that, but I think he made that decision later. The lack of mention of this "rumor" coming up again shows me that he doesn't intend to twist it. So the thing I said about Hyuuga and Byakugan seems the most logical answer to me.