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Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:42 AM
The Battlegrounds Databook

The statistics featured in this databook will be based by feats, hype and debates. Only under majority vote will stats of these characters change. I like the Naruto Databooks, but they are so outdated and contradictory. So, I figured this would be a better way to view our favorite characters stats. It could potentially make debates easier as well.

Character Template:
Anyone can suggest statistics for a certain character, but group debates will determine final stats.

Movement Speed: ?/10
Attacking Speed: ?/10
Reaction Speed: ?/10
Durability: ?/10
Stamina: ?/10
Strength: ?/10
Intelligence: ?/10

This is how character templates will look.
Note: I used random numbers.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/Ayumi16/Naruto%20Forum%20Databook/NarutoUzumaki.png

Characters [Under Debate]:
Characters that have not been placed in the databook.

Sage of Six Paths
Kabuto Yakushi
Madara Uchiha
Kyuubi
Pain
Orochimaru
Naruto Uzumaki
Kisame Hoshigaki
Killer Bee
Hashirama Senju (hype)
Madara Uchiha/Tobi
Jiraiya - Sage Mode
Itachi Uchiha
Minato Namikaze
A
Danzo Shimura
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha
Kakuzu
Gaara w/ Shukaku
Might Guy
Konan - with prep
Kakashi Hatake
Tobirama Senju
Kushina Uzumaki
Sasori
Deidara
Hanzo
Hiruzen Sarutobi
Mei Terumi
Chiyo
Mangetsu Hōzuki
Hidan
Tsunade
Kimimaro
Jūgo
Asuma Sarutobi
Kankuro
Darui
Fuguki Suikazan
Jinpachi Munashi
Ameyuri Ringo
Suigetsu Hōzuki
Zabuza Momochi
Kushimaru Kuriarare
Jinin Akebino
Yamato
Rock Lee
Haku
Sai
Temari
Sakon/Ukon
Shikamaru Nara
Neji Hyūga
Kurenai Yūhi
Kiba Inuzuka
Kidomaru
Chōza Akimichi
Chōji Akimichi
Sakura Haruno
Shino Aburame
Pakura
Gari
Tayuya
Jirobo
Inoichi Yamanaka
Tsume Inuzuka
Hana Inuzuka
Hinata Hyūga
Obito Uchiha
Ebisu
Tenten
Dosu Kinuta
Zaku Abumi
Ino Yamanaka
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Karin
Kin Tsuchi
Moegi
Udon

Confirmed Characters:
These characters have been finalized.

Kakashi Hatake
Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 6.5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Sage of Six Paths
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Minato Namikaze
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 6/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Suigetsu Hōzuki
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 7/10
Reaction Speed: 8/10
Durability: 8.5/10
Stamina: 6/10
Strength: 8/10
Intelligence: 6/10

Itachi Uchiha
Movement Speed: 8.5/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 7.5/10
Strength: 7/10
Intelligence: 9.5/10

Sasuke Uchiha
Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 9/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9.5/10
Stamina: 8.5/10
Strength: 7/10
Intelligence: 7.5/10

A
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Sasori
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 7/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Kabuto YakushiMovement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 7/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Madara Uchiha
Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 9/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Orochimaru
Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 7/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10 (healthy)
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Naruto Uzumaki
Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 7.5/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 8/10
Intelligence: 6/10

Killer Bee
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 5/10

Hashirama Senju (hype)
Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Jiraiya (Sage Mode)
Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 8/10


Karin
Movement Speed: 2/10
Attacking Speed: 1/10
Reaction Speed: 1/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 2/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Shino Aburame
Movement Speed: 3/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 3.5/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Ino Yamanaka
Movement Speed: 4/10
Attacking Speed: 3/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Tsunade
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 6.5/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Kankuro
Movement Speed: 5/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 6/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Databook:
An index of all characters.

A-B
N/A
C-D
N/A
E-F
N/A
G-H
N/A
I-J
N/A
K-L
N/A
M-N
N/A
O-P
N/A
Q-R
N/A
S-T
N/A
U-V
N/A
W-X
N/A
Y-Z
N/A

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 07:27 AM
I guess we could do something like this. But I'd be worried in case people just started saying ' Character A has higher points than Character B. so he wins ' instead of actually debating. If we did make something like this, the stats should only be used as a reserve to back your opinions and facts in a debate.

Also, don't limit the stats to 5. Its too small. Increase it to about 10.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 07:34 AM
I thought about increasing it to 10. I figured 5 would be easier, but we can do 10.

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 07:36 AM
5 is problematic because you'll have many people with significant stat differences being too close to each other. In terms of speed - Kakashi and A, for example.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 08:00 AM
I'm bored. Who wants to do a Shikamaru one with me?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 09:17 AM
5 is problematic because you'll have many people with significant stat differences being too close to each other. In terms of speed - Kakashi and A, for example.

True.

Shouldn't this thread go in the Naruto section? Lol.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 09:44 AM
I guess I will suggest the first statistic! Here goes! P:

Kakashi Hatake

Movement Speed: 8.5/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9/10

o.o

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 10:04 AM
I believe the stamina is too high. Kakashi almost always has to rely on Kamui when fighting more powerful enemies. And when he combines Kamui with Kage Bunshin, Raikiri and Lightning Hounds, all of which take up significant amounts of chakra, and are his main method of attack, he becomes totally drained. Put it down to 6 maybe?

I think you should put his durability down too. His best durability feat was withstanding those blocks of rubble he was crushed under for a while without dying, until he ran out of chakra. Even then. He was barely capable of movement. Though he has taken a few hits during the Kakuzu and Hidan Arc iirc, and he is a fully grown man. I'd put his durability at 6.

I can already see much debate is going to be needed for these BGDB stats xD

Frost ninja
02-01-2011, 10:05 AM
movement speed is, imo 7.5...
but eh

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:09 AM
I guess I will suggest the first statistic! Here goes! P:

Kakashi Hatake

Movement Speed: 8.5/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9/10

o.o

Stamina is a little high. I'd say 6.5

He is still put into a daze after using Kamui, but he is better with it. Still needs to show to be able to handle using it better while he maintains a good, steady stamina.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 10:09 AM
I believe the stamina is too high. Kakashi almost always has to rely on Kamui when fighting more powerful enemies. And when he combines Kamui with Kage Bunshin, Raikiri and Lightning Hounds, all of which take up significant amounts of chakra, and are his main method of attack, he becomes totally drained. Put it down to 6 maybe?

I think you should put his durability down too. His best durability feat was withstanding those blocks of rubble he was crushed under for a while without dying, until he ran out of chakra. Even then. He was barely capable of movement. Though he has taken a few hits during the Kakuzu and Hidan Arc iirc, and he is a fully grown man. I'd put his durability at 6.

I can already see much debate is going to be needed for these BGDB stats xD

I definitely disagree with a 6 stamina. Kamui drains a crapload of chakra by itself, so the fact that he can even perform numerous jutsu after that is impressive.

6.5 durability.

Debates are good. :3

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 10:12 AM
movement speed is, imo 7.5...
but eh

What makes you think 7.5?

Stamina is a little high. I'd say 6.5

He is still put into a daze after using Kamui, but he is better with it. Still needs to show to be able to handle using it better while he maintains a good, steady stamina.

I say 7 stamina.

@Shikamaru: Dude, I am in FAIL and we have guidelines. Cursing is fine as long as it is not directed at another person. The only word that is not allowed is the F-Bomb. Calm down.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:12 AM
Okay, so we'll cut it in between. Hold on, I want to do something to the OP.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:14 AM
Okay, so I just put up a few names and set up the spoilers. Now all we have to do is edit with each one.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 10:18 AM
Okay, so I just put up a few names and set up the spoilers. Now all we have to do is edit with each one.

I have to make actual templates later on, so that should help me.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Hold on, if I can help, I'll try to do it...wait a sec.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:29 AM
HTML isn't working either. I give up. XD

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 10:40 AM
HTML isn't working either. I give up. XD

This forum does not use HTML. Lmao.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 10:49 AM
Well that would explain it...but I just spent like ten minutes typing up the coding. ;~;

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Well that would explain it...but I just spent like ten minutes typing up the coding. ;~;

Lmao. Well, the current system is pretty simple. First, we need to get all characters that are going in the databook, which can be as easy as a copy and paste from the tier list. Next, suggestions of characters and debates. Last, after the characters have been confirmed with their statistics, I will make the final template.

jjjs
02-01-2011, 12:05 PM
may i create a personal tier list based on my opinion ?
kakashis movement and reaction speed should be higher

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Sure, but be ready to debate and give legit reasons.

jjjs
02-01-2011, 12:10 PM
Sure, but be ready to debate and give legit reasons.

OK thanks

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 12:13 PM
Kakashi Hatake

Movement Speed: 8/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 6.5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Okay, how does this look for Kakashi? Any objections?

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:17 PM
I'm down with that.

jjjs
02-01-2011, 12:31 PM
make kakashi faster and smarter he warped susanoo arrow = higher reaction speed

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:33 PM
He's smart, but not a 10. Do you know how the databook stat system works?
Ten would be like an IQ of 200-250

jjjs
02-01-2011, 12:35 PM
there is no one smarter than him in naruto (dont say shikamaru they are about the same)

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:37 PM
And that doesn't mean he auto gets a ten

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:37 PM
Itachi Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 10/10 - Depends on what you mean with Attack
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 10/10

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:38 PM
Why is Itachi's Stamina so low?

He was able to use a multitude of Sharingans, exchange Genjutsu, and after that he used Susano'o and sustained it.

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Why is Itachi's Stamina so low?

He was able to use a multitude of Sharingans, exchange Genjutsu, and after that he used Susano'o and sustained it.

Multitude? Itachi used one Tsukuyomi and look how bad he looked after Sasuke broke out of it.

After he used Ammy he was a sitting duck for a period of time.

When he got to Susanoo he started coughing up blood and at one time his Susanoo retracted it self.

Compared to Sasuke who can use all three of these techniques and some after Itachi stamina sucks.

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 12:43 PM
I would still give itachi higher stamina than Kakashi. I mean he did use Tsyuki and ammy, Right after those attacks he dodged Karin. That is part of stanima

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Sasuke Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 9/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 8.5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 7.5/10

Cool?

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:44 PM
I would still give itachi higher stamina than Kakashi. I mean he did use Tsyuki and ammy, Right after those attacks he dodged Karin. That is part of stanima

He didn't dodge Kirin, Susanoo saved him. He tanked Karin with the help of Susanoo

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:45 PM
Multitude? Itachi used one Tsukuyomi and look how bad he looked after Sasuke broke out of it.

After he used Ammy he was a sitting duck for a period of time.

When he got to Susanoo he started coughing up blood and at one time his Susanoo retracted it self.

Compared to Sasuke who can use all three of these techniques and some after Itachi stamina sucks.

Dude, he only has four types of Sharingan. Regular 3 tomoe Sharingan, Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o. He always has the regular type activated, which drains Sasuke and Itachi.

So? He was still able to react to most of what Sasuke threw at him and he wasn't even in his prime at that point.

It doesn't matter, he had used three other Sharingan abilities beforehand, which just proves how strong his attack must have been. His Susano'o also used the Kusanagi blade. It took chakra to control the Susano'o so it could swing its sword.

His Sharingan isn't even always activated.

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:51 PM
Dude, he only has four types of Sharingan. Regular 3 tomoe Sharingan, Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o. He always has the regular type activated, which drains Sasuke and Itachi.

So? He was still able to react to most of what Sasuke threw at him and he wasn't even in his prime at that point.

It doesn't matter, he had used three other Sharingan abilities beforehand, which just proves how strong his attack must have been. His Susano'o also used the Kusanagi blade. It took chakra to control the Susano'o so it could swing its sword.

His Sharingan isn't even always activated.

React? He got burned after his Ammy attack, and got roughed up a bit after Kirin. He was tired and drained after Ammy.

Doesn't matter? Madara Sharingan is always activated, and at this point I bet you Sasuke can keep his on if he wants to. Yes the Sharingan drains chakra but not as fast and effective as your putting it dude.

Point is that your ignoring after the first 2 MS techniques Itachi was a sitting duck for a moment, POINT BLANK.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Doesn't matter? Madara Sharingan is always activated, and at this point I bet you Sasuke can keep his on if he wants to. Yes the Sharingan drains chakra but not as fast and effective as your putting it dude.

Point is that your ignoring after the first 2 MS techniques Itachi was a sitting duck for a moment, POINT BLANK.

...he had to retract it against Deidara.

Chakra exhaustion should kill. He was fine.

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:56 PM
...he had to retract it against Deidara.

Chakra exhaustion should kill. He was fine.

True but he managed to summon Manda, control him, and transport them both away.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 12:57 PM
And you ignored the entire Kusanagi blade arguement.

Yori
02-01-2011, 12:59 PM
And you ignored the entire Kusanagi blade arguement.

Kusanagi Blade is part of Susanoo. When Itachi Susanoo came up that Blade was already equip with it so moving his arm to swing it, is no huge feat.

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 01:03 PM
I have to say, If itahi used susanoo to stop the attack. He would not of had burns on his body etc. Susanoo was not fully activated till after he stood up. So he still partially dodged karin

Yori
02-01-2011, 01:05 PM
I have to say, If itahi used susanoo to stop the attack. He would not of had burns on his body etc. Susanoo was not fully activated till after he stood up. So he still partially dodged karin

Which means he couldn't dodged all of it.

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 01:07 PM
still dodged, one of the strongest attacks shown so far. Still pat of stanima. Now could you tell me that Kakashi could use a Kamui and partially dodge that attack. I think not

Yori
02-01-2011, 01:10 PM
Kakashi isn't bless with Susanoo so that answer is a no for Kakashi and mostly everybody in Naruto.

So your telling me Itachi has great stamina even though at one point in that fight he was sitting duck? Man let that would of been A, Itachi would of gotten a Lariat straight through his chest

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 01:15 PM
But yet A speed blitzes Sasuke. Itachi deserves more stamina than Kakashi. Even with out Susanoo. If he would of had it activated he would not of obtained any burns like he did. His clothing would of stayed on and not fall off into ashes.

Yori
02-01-2011, 01:17 PM
I just don't see why I should raise his stamina after his performance in the Sasuke battle.

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 01:21 PM
do you honestly believe that kakashi has more stanima than itachi?? I do believe itachi used a tsyuki and not one but 2 ammys in that fight with sasuke and still was able to manage to partially dodge karin

Yori
02-01-2011, 01:22 PM
2 Ammy's? Example of this please?

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 01:30 PM
SAsuke used fire ball justu, Itachi countered with ammy


right now that all bc of my stupid interent will post the other later

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Itachi Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 10/10 - Depends on what you mean with Attack
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 10/10

How in the hell would Sasuke have an attack speed of 10? Attack speed includes the overall speed of his Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. Sasuke is probably an 8.5.

9 reaction speed is debatable. Sasuke did manage to hit the Raikage.

Susanoo was melted by Mei. Durability would be 8.5-9.

Stamina should be increased to level out with at least Kakashi.

Lolwut? 10 intelligence? Sasuke? ;);););););););). Sasuke is not smarter than Kakashi, equal at best. Kakashi has 2x his experience and probably 2x the amount of kills.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Sage of the Six Paths:

Movement Speed: 10/10 [Hype; traveled across the world (unknown period of time) presumably on foot]
Attacking Speed: 10/10 [Hype/had the Rinnegan, possibly also had the Sharingan's powers as well (seeing as how he passed them on to his son)]
Reaction Speed: 10/10 [Hype/had the Rinnegan, possibly also had the Sharingan's powers as well (seeing as how he passed them on to his son)]
Durability: 10/10 [Owned the Juubi, physically strong enough to create the moon, seal the strongest monster to ever exist, and split up his power among his sons, all while on his deathbed]
Stamina: 10/10 [Physically strong enough to create the moon, seal the strongest monster to ever exist, and split up his power among his sons, all while on his deathbed]
Strength: 10/10 [Physically strong enough to create the moon, seal the strongest monster to ever exist, and split up his power among his sons, all while on his deathbed]
Intelligence: 10/10 [Complete knowledge of chakra/basically created Narutoverse as we know it]

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 02:57 PM
I can agree with Sage.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE=Kazumi Saitama;4692374]The Battlegrounds Databook

The statistics featured in this databook will be based by feats, hype and debates. Only under majority vote will stats of these characters change. I like the Naruto Databooks, but they are so outdated and contradictory. So, I figured this would be a better way to view our favorite characters stats. It could potentially make debates easier as well.

Character Template:
Anyone can suggest statistics for a certain character, but group debates will determine final stats.

Movement Speed: ?/10
Attacking Speed: ?/10
Reaction Speed: ?/10
Durability: ?/10
Stamina: ?/10
Strength: ?/10
Intelligence: ?/10
Sage of Six Paths(by hype)
Move Speed: 10/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10
(why not make Nin strength and Gen strength/res?)

Kabuto Yakushi
Move Speed: 6/10
Attck Speed: 6/10
React Speed: 6/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Madara Uchiha
Move Speed: 5/10
Attck Speed: ?/1-
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10.10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10
(With hype)
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 9/10
React Spped: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Kyuubi:
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Pain
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 7/10
Intell: 7/10

Orochimaru
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 6/10
React Speed: 5/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10 (when not sick)
Strength: 6/10
Intell: 10/10

Naruto Uzumaki
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 7/10
React Speed: 6/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 8/10
Intell: 6/10

Kisame Hoshigaki
Move Speed: 6/10
Attck Speed: 6/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 9/10
Intell: 3/10

Killer Bee
Move Speed: 10/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7/10
Intell: 3/10

Hashirama Senju (with hype)
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 9/10

Madara Uchiha/Tobi Read other

Jiraiya - Sage Mode
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 6/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 7/10

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:03 PM
Ooh, my baby has been busy. P:

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:15 PM
How in the hell would Sasuke have an attack speed of 10? Attack speed includes the overall speed of his Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. Sasuke is probably an 8.5.

9 reaction speed is debatable. Sasuke did manage to hit the Raikage.

Susanoo was melted by Mei. Durability would be 8.5-9.

Stamina should be increased to level out with at least Kakashi.

Lolwut? 10 intelligence? Sasuke? ;);););););););). Sasuke is not smarter than Kakashi, equal at best. Kakashi has 2x his experience and probably 2x the amount of kills.

Please pay attention to the name of the character before you quote me sweetie :)

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:19 PM
o.o

Why the hell did I see Sasuke. >.> I apologize.

@J-Sun: You are missing Movement Speed.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm going to go ahead and do Minato. Hurr hurr.

Minato Namikaze
Movement Speed: 10/10 (Called the Yellow Flash which implies his fast movement speed, saved baby Naruto who was about to be attacked by Madara, Naruto's shunshin against Kisame was said to be inferior to Minato's)
Attacking Speed: 10/10 (See above)
Reaction Speed: 10/10 (Reflexes compared to A's, reacted to Madara's warp and avoided an explosion right after saving Naruto)
Durability: 6/10
Stamina: 8/10 (Was able to do FTG multiple times, Rasengan, Death Reaper Seal, Gamabunta summoning, and warping huge quantities before feeling fatigued)
Strength: 6/10 (Just average.)
Intelligence: 10/10 (Can figure out moves in seconds, with only seeing them once.)

I think Ninjutsu and Genjutsu should be added too.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:24 PM
I'm going to go ahead and do Minato. Hurr hurr.

Minato Namikaze
Movement Speed: 10/10 (Called the Yellow Flash which implies his fast movement speed, saved baby Naruto who was about to be attacked by Madara, Naruto's shunshin against Kisame was said to be inferior to Minato's)
Attacking Speed: 10/10 (See above)
Reaction Speed: 10/10 (Reflexes compared to A's, reacted to Madara's warp and avoided an explosion right after saving Naruto)
Durability: 6/10
Stamina: 8/10 (Was able to do FTG multiple times, Rasengan, Death Reaper Seal, Gamabunta summoning, and warping huge quantities before feeling fatigued)
Strength: 6/10 (Just average.)
Intelligence: 10/10 (Can figure out moves in seconds, with only seeing them once.)

I think Ninjutsu and Genjutsu should be added too.

I agree.

If I add Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, I might as well add Taijutsu.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:24 PM
A

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10 (Chopping an Ammy Shield Sasuke wasn't bright, and was about to repeat the same thing with a leg drop until Gaara came.)

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Suigetsu
Movement Speed: 7/10 (Saved Sasuke twice from the Cloud brothers)
Attacking Speed: 7/10 (having to lug around that huge sword slows him down, but with his new katana, he might be able to attack faster)
Reaction Speed: 8/10 (See movement speed)
Durability: 10/10 (This is because of hydration technique)
Stamina: 6/10 (Seems to tire out with the Zabuza sword, but this can change with his new one)
Strength: 8/10 (Gotta give him props for being able to carry that big sword around all the time, not to mention the fact that he can make himself more muscular)
Intelligence: 6/10 (Haven't seen any major intelligence feats from him)
Awesomeness: 10000000/10 (ignore this.)
I agree.

If I add Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, I might as well add Taijutsu.
Strength, speed, and stamina are all part of it, though.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:30 PM
BTW, I did not add Nin, Tai and Gen because I did not find them essential for debates.

I mean, who is going to say Fighter A is better than Fighter B because Fighter A's Ninjutsu is 8 and Fighter B's Ninjutsu is 6. I made these for reference, not full out biographies. It is also harder to make sizable charts. We basically know the extent of everyone's Nin, Tai and Gen.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 03:31 PM
BTW, I did not add Nin, Tai and Gen because I did not find them essential for debates.

I mean, who is going to say Fighter A is better than Fighter B because Fighter A's Ninjutsu is 8 and Fighter B's Ninjutsu is 6. I made these for reference, not full out biographies. It is also harder to make sizable charts. We basically know the extent of everyone's Nin, Tai and Gen.
We decide 9/10 fights based on Nin and Gen.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:31 PM
So was Sasuke's stats cool or no?

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 03:32 PM
All right.

Well if no one's going to debate my Minato one, I'll add it.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:32 PM
I did A's Itachi's, and Sasuke's any final thoughts on their stats?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:33 PM
We decide 9/10 fights based on Nin and Gen.

>.>
<.<

Fine. e.e

So was Sasuke's stats cool or no?

You made Sasuke's?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:33 PM
All right.

Well if no one's going to debate my Minato one, I'll add it.

Please do.

If you have moderation powers and the character is accepted, please add that beast to the OP! Will make my job so much easier.

@Kuro: Your characters look good to me.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Sasuke Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 9/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo - Yes Mei melt the bones but that was an incomplete Susanoo. Going by recent feats Sasuke has completed his Susanoo.

Stamina - 8.5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 7.5/10

Cool?

>.>
<.<

Fine. e.e



You made Sasuke's?

There.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Itachi Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 10/10 - Depends on what you mean with Attack
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 10/10

Isn't Itachi faster than Kakashi? I could be wrong.
Kakashi and Itachi are about level on stamina.

Sasuke Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 9/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 8.5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 7.5/10

Cool?

Susanoo was melted by Mei. 9-9.5
Stamina would be 8.

A

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10 (Chopping an Ammy Shield Sasuke wasn't bright, and was about to repeat the same thing with a leg drop until Gaara came.)

I agree with this one.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
Isn't Itachi faster than Kakashi? I could be wrong.
Kakashi and Itachi are about level on stamina.



Susanoo was melted by Mei. 9-9.5
Stamina would be 8.



I agree with this one.

I had trouble with Itachi's movement speed since we mostly saw him standing in one spot. The only real movement speed feat he had was when he blitz Sasuke. I'll bump his stamina to 7.5.

Alright I agree on the Susanoo.

The only thing I don't agree on is the stamina. Why would Sasuke stamina be an 8 when he proved he has one of the best stamina in Naruto?

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 03:43 PM
I had trouble with Itachi's movement speed since we mostly saw him standing in one spot. The only real movement speed feat he had was when he blitz Sasuke. I'll bump his stamina to 7.5.

Alright I agree on the Susanoo.

The only thing I don't agree on is the stamina. Why would Sasuke stamina be an 8 when he proved he has one of the best stamina in Naruto?
He doesn't have one of the best, he has lower than sick Itachi, let alone healthy Itachi.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 03:45 PM
When Mei melted Susanoo it was still incomplete, and that was only because of the special nature of Mei's jutsu. Susanoo even with ribs can tank a multitude of attacks, and that alone is deserving of a 10.

Itachi should get at least a 6 or 7 in stamina because he dealt with Sasuke while on the brink of death, pretty much.

Why does A have a 9 in movement speed?

Also I'll be adding my Suigetsu stats to the OP since no one's debated on them.

Yori
02-01-2011, 03:45 PM
He doesn't have one of the best, he has lower than sick Itachi, let alone healthy Itachi.

Are you serious? Example of Sasuke lacking stamina?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:48 PM
I had trouble with Itachi's movement speed since we mostly saw him standing in one spot. The only real movement speed feat he had was when he blitz Sasuke. I'll bump his stamina to 7.5.

Alright I agree on the Susanoo.

The only thing I don't agree on is the stamina. Why would Sasuke stamina be an 8 when he proved he has one of the best stamina in Naruto?

If Sasuke is an 8 and Itachi was able to blitz him, he deserves an 8.5.

Kakashi is able to use Kamui prior to using other lightning based jutsu. Kamui alone drains a lot of chakra. Lightning jutsu seems to drain a good portion and Kakashi's stamina is only 7.5. Sasuke's stamina can not be that much better.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 03:48 PM
Are you serious? Example of Sasuke lacking stamina?
chapter 466 Page 5

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 03:53 PM
When Mei melted Susanoo it was still incomplete, and that was only because of the special nature of Mei's jutsu. Susanoo even with ribs can tank a multitude of attacks, and that alone is deserving of a 10.

Itachi should get at least a 6 or 7 in stamina because he dealt with Sasuke while on the brink of death, pretty much.

Why does A have a 9 in movement speed?

Also I'll be adding my Suigetsu stats to the OP since no one's debated on them.

I would give Sasuke's durability a 9.5. I doubt his Susanoo is on par with Itachi's and Mei's mist still melted it. Just because his Susanoo was incomplete, the ribs still contained the same material as a whole Susanoo.

I say 7.5.

Maybe 9.5? Do you think he could keep up with Minato?

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 03:57 PM
I would give Sasuke's durability a 9.5. I doubt his Susanoo is on par with Itachi's and Mei's mist still melted it. Just because his Susanoo was incomplete, the ribs still contained the same material as a whole Susanoo.

I say 7.5.

Maybe 9.5? Do you think he could keep up with Minato?
Hmm, ok. That would mean Suigetsu's stats on durability go lower too, so I'll go edit that.

A was directly compared to Minato, and with Raiton Armor, he should definitely be able to keep up.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Sasuke at 9.5...

wat

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Hmm, ok. That would mean Suigetsu's stats on durability go lower too, so I'll go edit that.

A was directly compared to Minato, and with Raiton Armor, he should definitely be able to keep up.

Kay.

Sasuke at 9.5...

wat

For durability.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 04:01 PM
again wat?

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 04:07 PM
While you guys get cracking with the Higher Tier Characters, I'll work with the Mid-lower ones. And Tsunade =3

Karin

Movement Speed: 2/10
Attacking Speed: 1/10
Reaction Speed: 1/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 2/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 5/10

Shino
Movement Speed: 3/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 3.5/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6/10

Ino
Movement Speed: 4/10
Attacking Speed: 3/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 5/10

Tsunade
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Kankuro
Movement Speed: 5/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 6/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 5/10

All I've got so far .__. I'm just thinking, should we perhaps include a ninjutsu section too? I mean, speed generally only applies for taijutsu. Its rarely used when talking about nin or gen. And Shino looks kinda on par with Ino, but we know bugs would thwart her at a range.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:07 PM
Kabuto Yakushi
Move Speed: 7/10
Attck Speed: 7/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Madara Uchiha
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 9/10
React Spped: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Kyuubi
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Pain
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 7/10
Intell: 7/10

Orochimaru
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 7/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10 (when not sick)
Strength: 6/10
Intell: 10/10

Naruto Uzumaki
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 7.5/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 8/10
Intell: 6/10

Kisame Hoshigaki
Move Speed: 7/10
Attck Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 9/10
Intell: 5/10

Killer Bee
Move Speed: 10/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intell: 5/10

Hashirama Senju (with hype)
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 9/10

Madara Uchiha/Tobi - Read Other

Jiraiya - Sage Mode
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 8/10

I changed some numbers around. J-Sun, you were underestimating characters, geez. o.o

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Why does Karin have a 5 in intelligence?

Yori
02-01-2011, 04:14 PM
Karin deserves an 8 at least on the smarts

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:14 PM
Karin
Movement Speed: 2/10
Attacking Speed: 1/10
Reaction Speed: 1/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 2/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 5/10

LMAO. I laughed so damn hard looking at this. Anyway!

I would give her at least a 7 intelligence.

Shino
Movement Speed: 3/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 3.5/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6/10

Shino is relatively intelligent, so I say 7-7.5.

Ino
Movement Speed: 4/10
Attacking Speed: 3/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 5/10

Her intelligence should be 7. Damn woman, do you think everyone is dumb? xD!

Tsunade
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Attack speed should be 6.
Intelligence should be 8.5-9.

Kankuro
Movement Speed: 5/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 6/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 5/10

Intelligence should be 6.5-7.

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 04:18 PM
Why does Karin have a 5 in intelligence?


Intelligence is usually all the girls are ever good for in Naruto :lol:

But srsly, she was able to keep an entire prison in order. And she's shown to be fairly knowledgable during the fight with Danzo. Figuring out that Izanagi isn't a normal genjutsu, and that it isn't ninjutsu either. The fact Sasuke brought her along with him, and that she was able to avoid being killed, despite the amount of powerful enemies they fought. Shows some degree of intelligence too. If she was a fool, I doubt she'd have been as useful as she was.

I don't mind putting it down to 4.5 or 4, if you want?

EDIT: Wat? Kakashis intelligence isn't much higher than Karins if we do that! Theres no way she should be getting much higher than a 5.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:21 PM
Kakashi has a 9. ._.

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Kakashi has a 9. ._.

7 is still too close to 9 >_> 6 tops. I'd give Shino a 6 too.

Asides that, I agree with everything you mentioned beforehand.

I hate Karin

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
7 is still too close to 9 >_> 6 tops. I'd give Shino a 6 too.

Asides that, I agree with everything you mentioned beforehand.

I hate Karin

6.5 for Karin and Shino. I hate her too, but we can not be biased. Lmao.

Lady Tsunade
02-01-2011, 04:30 PM
6.5 for Karin and Shino. I hate her too, but we can not be biased. Lmao.

Ehhh. Still too high imo. But okay, compromise accepted. Done deal.

Also, all of the Sannins intelligence is roughly the same. They've all pretty much fought the same battles and have the same tactical knowledge. Only difference is they all have knowledge in different areas of jutsu, which are immense. Frog Jutsu, Snake Jutsu, Medical Ninjutsu as well as the endless seals they all know. So I'd put all of the Sannins intelligence on about 9. In other words, move Oros int down a notch.

And move Kabutos intelligence down to about 8, or 8.5. He smart but he's not as experienced as Sannin or Kakashi, or tactical like Shikamaru.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 04:35 PM
Ehhh. Still too high imo. But okay, compromise accepted. Done deal.

Also, all of the Sannins intelligence is roughly the same. They've all pretty much fought the same battles and have the same tactical knowledge. Only difference is they all have knowledge in different areas of jutsu, which are immense. Frog Jutsu, Snake Jutsu, Medical Ninjutsu as well as the endless seals they all know. So I'd put all of the Sannins intelligence on about 9. In other words, move Oros int down a notch.

And move Kabutos intelligence down to about 8, or 8.5. He smart but he's not as experienced as Sannin or Kakashi, or tactical like Shikamaru.
Oro was part of the Akatsuki knew a ton about the Uchiha's knew where to find both Harshiama's body as well as Tobi's. He knows about legendary weapons and forbidden jutsu, and has also been in many bodies, furthing his knowledge over jutsu. He also has experience with medical jutsu as well.

Kabuto as well is linked with the Akatsuki and studied under Orochimaru, he knew where to find tons of bodies for ET as well as knew what was the single person who could scare Madara, and set up a huge battle front single handedly planning out where to put which team of zombies where. He also has a wide knowledge over poisons and Medical nin.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 04:39 PM
Ehhh. Still too high imo. But okay, compromise accepted. Done deal.

Also, all of the Sannins intelligence is roughly the same. They've all pretty much fought the same battles and have the same tactical knowledge. Only difference is they all have knowledge in different areas of jutsu, which are immense. Frog Jutsu, Snake Jutsu, Medical Ninjutsu as well as the endless seals they all know. So I'd put all of the Sannins intelligence on about 9. In other words, move Oros int down a notch.

And move Kabutos intelligence down to about 8, or 8.5. He smart but he's not as experienced as Sannin or Kakashi, or tactical like Shikamaru.

Good.

Orochimaru was a scientist and developed Edo Tensei, so his intelligence would definitely be 9.5-10.
Tsunade excels at human anatomy, herbology and toxicology. I would actually give her 8.5-9.
Jiraiya is intelligent but never showed much use of his intelligence like Orochimaru and Tsunade.
There is definitely a difference in their intelligence.

Kabuto is basically a second Orochimaru. Kabuto not only knows most of his jutsu, but he also wields medical intelligence on par with Tsunade. Kabuto is definitely as smart as Kakashi and Shikamaru.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Kazumi, the second hokage created edo tensei

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Neji Hyuuga

Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Sakura Haruno

Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 9.5/10
Intelligence: 8.5/10

BTW, if you want Nin and Gen, you better add that ;);););) yourself. >.>
That needs to be decided before I start making official templates.

Is everyone in agreeance with confirmed characters?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Kazumi, the second hokage created edo tensei

Well, Orochimaru completed the jutsu. That is why I said developed.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 05:04 PM
if you say sooooooo

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:04 PM
Do a character Pat! Teamwork! :o

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 05:07 PM
maybe some other time, not right now.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Final Thoughts?

Kabuto Yakushi
Move Speed: 7/10
Attck Speed: 7/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Madara Uchiha
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 9/10
React Spped: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Kyuubi
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 10/10

Pain
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 7/10
Intell: 7/10

Orochimaru
Move Speed: 8/10
Attack Speed: 7/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10 (when not sick)
Strength: 6/10
Intell: 10/10

Naruto Uzumaki
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 7.5/10
React Speed: 7/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 8/10
Intell: 6/10

Kisame Hoshigaki
Move Speed: 7/10
Attck Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 9/10
Intell: 5/10

Killer Bee
Move Speed: 10/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intell: 5/10

Hashirama Senju (with hype)
Move Speed: 9/10
Attck Speed: 10/10
React Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 9/10

Madara Uchiha/Tobi - Read Other

Jiraiya - Sage Mode
Move Speed: 8/10
Attck Speed: 8/10
React Speed: 9/10
Durability: 10/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 10/10
Intell: 8/10

Karin
Movement Speed: 2/10
Attacking Speed: 1/10
Reaction Speed: 1/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 2/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Shino
Movement Speed: 3/10
Attacking Speed: 5/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 3.5/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Ino
Movement Speed: 4/10
Attacking Speed: 3/10
Reaction Speed: 3/10
Durability: 2/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 2/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Tsunade
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 6.5/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 9/10

Kankuro
Movement Speed: 5/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 6/10
Durability: 4/10
Stamina: 4/10
Strength: 3/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Neji Hyuuga
Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Sakura Haruno
Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 9.5/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 05:28 PM
Sasori
Movement Speed: 8/10 (Crossing a large distance quite easily with his harpoon thing)
Attacking Speed: 8/10 (His hands move quickly when moving the puppets)
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 7/10 (Just talking about the puppet body, not the heart.)
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10 (Human puppets, and analytical skill against Sakura & Chiyo.)
don't mind putting it down to 4.5 or 4, if you want?
Uhh, I was thinking of raising it xD

Edit: Karin showed more intelligence feats than Ino, just look at the feats Lady Tsunade put down :lol:

Neji attacking speed should be high but why is his reaction speed that good?

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 05:32 PM
Neji Hyuuga

Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 8/10

Sakura Haruno

Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 9.5/10
Intelligence: 8.5/10

BTW, if you want Nin and Gen, you better add that ;);););) yourself. >.>
That needs to be decided before I start making official templates.

Is everyone in agreeance with confirmed characters?
Wasn't he blitzed by Kido's attacks? 8|

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:39 PM
Sasori
Movement Speed: 8/10 (Crossing a large distance quite easily with his harpoon thing)
Attacking Speed: 8/10 (His hands move quickly when moving the puppets)
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 7/10 (Just talking about the puppet body, not the heart.)
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10 (Human puppets, and analytical skill against Sakura & Chiyo.)

Uhh, I was thinking of raising it xD

Edit: Karin showed more intelligence feats than Ino, just look at the feats Lady Tsunade put down :lol:

Neji attacking speed should be high but why is his reaction speed that good?

Wasn't he blitzed by Kido's attacks? 8|

Neji dodged 100+ spiders and 100+ damn kunai things. Are you serious? :/

Yes, Neji got hit a few times, but that is because he could not see them due to the Byakugan's blindspot.

EDIT: BTW, I would give Sasori a 9.5 intelligence.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 05:41 PM
Neji dodged 100+ spiders and 100+ damn kunai things. Are you serious? :/

Yes, Neji got hit a few times, but that is because he could not see them due to the Byakugan's blindspot.
He didn't dodge them he used Rotation and there weren't near 100, let alone thrown at the same time. And those things aren't fast, especially considering people like Kisame have a 8-9 in reaction speed.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:45 PM
He didn't dodge them he used Rotation and there weren't near 100, let alone thrown at the same time. And those things aren't fast, especially considering people like Kisame have a 8-9 in reaction speed.

Chapter 195: Pages 5-7. :/ The hell.

Neji is at least an 8.5.

And! That was PTS.

EDIT: He also reacted to Kumo Senkyu: Suzaku twice. A jutsu that creates shockwaves and damn craters with an accuracy over 100%. :/

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Chapter 195: Pages 5-7. :/ The hell.

Neji is at least an 8.5.

And! That was PTS.
He dodged a lot of kunai, Kakashi did the same without Sharingan, and they weren't that fast.

He's shown no feats after PTS so it really doesn't mean anything, you could assume a small speed increase, but when you assume you make an ass of you and me =D.

He didn't even dodge them all.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 05:50 PM
EDIT: BTW, I would give Sasori a 9.5 intelligence.
I'm cool with that.
Chapter 195: Pages 5-7. :/ The hell.

Neji is at least an 8.5.

And! That was PTS.
He didn't dodge hundreds and while it's impressive on his part, it doesn't guarantee a 9 which is just below some people like Minato and A.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:52 PM
Read the edit.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 05:52 PM
I have no idea what that is xD

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 05:54 PM
I have no idea what that is xD

That bow and arrow jutsu Kidomaru has. He fired that damn jutsu at Neji twice, while Neji was exhausted, directed it at his blindspot and Neji still reacted. Accuracy like 110%.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Read the edit.
Where did he dodge it? Each time he got hit.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Well he slightly deflected the first shot because he continually had some sort of chakra shield around him.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Where did he dodge it? Each time he got hit.

Reacted, not dodged. Good luck dodging a jutsu that moves at transonic-supersonic speeds with an accuracy of 110%. Neji was about to pass out and still managed to react twice. Jutsu blew a hole through him, released a shockwave and created a crater the size of Kansas. :/

Exaggerated, but you get the idea.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:02 PM
Well he slightly deflected the first shot because he continually had some sort of chakra shield around him.

That still counts. No different than Susanoo increasing Sasuke's durability and that Raiton Armor increasing A's speed.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 06:02 PM
Reacted, not dodged. Good luck dodging a jutsu that moves at transonic-supersonic speeds with an accuracy of 110%. Neji was about to pass out and still managed to react twice. Jutsu blew a hole through him, released a shockwave and created a crater the size of Kansas. :/

Exaggerated, but you get the idea.
Read what Kuro said.

His arrows are Transonic at best, not Supersonic.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't think he activated it at that moment though. But he doesn't always have that thing around him, his primary defense is Rotation.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:06 PM
I don't think he activated it at that moment though. But he doesn't always have that thing around him, his primary defense is Rotation.

Why would that matter?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Read what Kuro said.

His arrows are Transonic at best, not Supersonic.

Transonic is pretty damn fast when you are mere moments away from passing out. Transonic exceeds a lot of things in Naruto.

Kuromaki
02-01-2011, 06:09 PM
Since it's just a shield, it doesn't count for reaction speed, it's not like he reacted since Kidomaru implied that he'd been continually covering his body with it.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:12 PM
Since it's just a shield, it doesn't count for reaction speed, it's not like he reacted since Kidomaru implied that he'd been continually covering his body with it.

That still counts. No different than Susanoo increasing Sasuke's durability and that Raiton Armor increasing A's speed.

:/

Then, why are we counting Susanoo and Raiton Armor as increases? And they are jutsu. Neji merely used chakra.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 06:13 PM
Transonic is pretty damn fast when you are mere moments away from passing out. Transonic exceeds a lot of things in Naruto.
If it's even that fast. And it's not like he actually did anything to it.
:/

Then, why are we counting Susanoo and Raiton Armor as increases? And they are jutsu. Neji merely used chakra.
Itachi used Susanoo to counter Kirin which is lightning, does that mean he has lightning speed reactions?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:15 PM
If it's even that fast. And it's not like he actually did anything to it.

Itachi used Susanoo to counter Kirin which is lightning, does that mean he has lightning speed reactions?

That makes no sense, because Itachi does not have to move to use Susanoo. Tanking lightning with Susanoo would increase his durability, not reaction. :/

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 06:16 PM
That makes no sense, because Itachi does not have to move to use Susanoo. Tanking lightning with Susanoo would increase his durability, not reaction. :/
Did Neji have to move to use the chakra thing he deflected the arrow with?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:19 PM
Did Neji have to move to use the chakra thing he deflected the arrow with?

No, but his body had to react to keep from getting hit. A chakra shroud does not stop the speed of the arrow. :/

BTW: Anything that creates a shockwave is at least transonic.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-01-2011, 06:25 PM
No, but his body had to react to keep from getting hit. A chakra shroud does not stop the speed of the arrow. :/

BTW: Anything that creates a shockwave is at least transonic.
Who said it stopped the speed? You can move something to the side with barely halting the speed, which is probably what he had in place.

Where's the shockwave with the arrow in question?

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:37 PM
Who said it stopped the speed? You can move something to the side with barely halting the speed, which is probably what he had in place.

Where's the shockwave with the arrow in question?

Chapter 196: Page 5

The arrow was not slowed down. Neji used the chakra shroud to compensate his blindspot.

Chapter 196: Page 2

The arrow created a damn crater. What happens when something extremely fast hits solid Earth hard enough to create a crater without cracking the surface? A shockwave.

Yori
02-01-2011, 06:39 PM
Onoki

Movement Speed: 8/10 -- Kept up Deidara's Bird Easily
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10 -- Check when he used Dust release on Sasuke
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 5/10 -- Physically he is weak
Stamina: 7.5/10
Strength: 7/10 -- Physically he isn't strong
Intelligence: 10/10 -- The oldest Kage, fought Madara and lived.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:50 PM
I want High Tier on that damn list. :/

Yori
02-01-2011, 06:55 PM
Killer Bee

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 8/10 -- Unlike his brother, he showed impressive intelligence while he Fought Sasuke and Kisame

Yori
02-01-2011, 06:57 PM
For Guy should I used his gates speed or just his speed in base?

Sephiroth
02-01-2011, 06:58 PM
BTW Proof itachi used Ammy twice in his fight with sasuke. He used it once to counter sasukes fire ball, chaper 389. Then against at the start of chapter 390. Two different times he used Ammy. So his stanima should go up still.

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 06:58 PM
For Guy should I used his gates speed or just his speed in base?

Make a template for both.

Yori
02-01-2011, 06:59 PM
Okay.

deidara330
02-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Sasuke's stamina should be bumped up to 9. He lasted 10 minutes against Danzo, an opponent he couldn't kill at all during said 10 minutes. He was also able to fight both Kakashi and Naruto afterwards. Of course, he did have some healing during the fight, but it's still pretty good. Plus, he was spamming the Mangekyo and handling it well until the end.

Yori
02-01-2011, 07:21 PM
Thank you. That was exactly what I was trying to say

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 07:27 PM
Sasuke's stamina should be bumped up to 9. He lasted 10 minutes against Danzo, an opponent he couldn't kill at all during said 10 minutes. He was also able to fight both Kakashi and Naruto afterwards. Of course, he did have some healing during the fight, but it's still pretty good. Plus, he was spamming the Mangekyo and handling it well until the end.

Hell no. :/

Sasuke is doing good with 8.5. Sasuke is extremely overpowered and hax beyond comprehension. Using that many jutsu without dying from chakra exhaustion is some BS, PNJ and contradiction. He does not deserve a damn 9. Kakashi has 2x his experience and can only manage 2-3 Kamui at best and yet, Sasuke spammed his MS like it was some new toy. Hell, Naruto is more believable than that and he has the Kyuubi.

Yori
02-01-2011, 07:40 PM
But still it's a feat PNJ or not Sasuke done it so therefore its canon. If thats the reason why he can't get a 9 because of PNJ then mostly everyone that got a rating so far needs their ratings lowered

Kazumi Saitama
02-01-2011, 07:55 PM
But still it's a feat PNJ or not Sasuke done it so therefore its canon. If thats the reason why he can't get a 9 because of PNJ then mostly everyone that got a rating so far needs their ratings lowered

No battle in Naruto thus far was that exaggerated either.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-02-2011, 03:43 AM
But still it's a feat PNJ or not Sasuke done it so therefore its canon. If thats the reason why he can't get a 9 because of PNJ then mostly everyone that got a rating so far needs their ratings lowered
Plot is not a feat, it's what writers use to make their stories better, we all would've been disappointed had Kishi just made Sasuke leave after getting all hyped about him meeting Sasuke again. We also know he had a good amount of healing before fighting Danzo and Kakashi and Naruto. He didn't do much in either of the fights anyways, he shot maybe two Susanoo arrows and used a few chidori variants. He was also damn near completely blind at the end of the fight. He survived through both, had he gone without that healing he would've been dead. So if he's healed that =/= his stamina.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 04:41 AM
Do you want a stat for each path of Pain??

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 05:43 AM
Deva Pain
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 9/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 05:53 AM
Oro was part of the Akatsuki knew a ton about the Uchiha's knew where to find both Harshiama's body as well as Tobi's. He knows about legendary weapons and forbidden jutsu, and has also been in many bodies, furthing his knowledge over jutsu. He also has experience with medical jutsu as well.

Kabuto as well is linked with the Akatsuki and studied under Orochimaru, he knew where to find tons of bodies for ET as well as knew what was the single person who could scare Madara, and set up a huge battle front single handedly planning out where to put which team of zombies where. He also has a wide knowledge over poisons and Medical nin.

Jiraiya travelled around the world and had knowledge on loooads of ninja. He also had knowledge on Nagato, Konan and Yahikos abilities. Tsunade also travelled around the world, and presumably has knowledge on lots of ninja also. Its also been stated that to be a medical ninja alone you need to be very intelligent, the fact Tsunade was noted as the World Greatest Medic should account for something. Tsunade and Jiraiya are aware of forbidden jutsu also. Oros knowledge on medical stuff is limited to getting DNA really. He got Kabuto to do the majority of the medical stuff.

He pretty much gained the majority of that knowledge from Orochimaru. He was noted to be intelligent because of his knowledge on the human anatomy and medical stuff. He could also use opponents disadvantages to his advantage in the heat of battle, as he did with Tsunade. Him knowing where the ET bodies where, was presumably from asking around and research. Theres no way he could've known all of those bodies locations naturally. He's smart in different areas, but he's not as smart as the Sannin, imo.

Good.

Orochimaru was a scientist and developed Edo Tensei, so his intelligence would definitely be 9.5-10.
Tsunade excels at human anatomy, herbology and toxicology. I would actually give her 8.5-9.
Jiraiya is intelligent but never showed much use of his intelligence like Orochimaru and Tsunade.
There is definitely a difference in their intelligence.

Kabuto is basically a second Orochimaru. Kabuto not only knows most of his jutsu, but he also wields medical intelligence on par with Tsunade. Kabuto is definitely as smart as Kakashi and Shikamaru.

The Second Hokage developed Edo Tensei. Orochimaru learned the basics of how to use it. Though Hashirama and Tobirama were far weaker than they were hyped up to be, presumably he couldn't control the bodies to their full strength. Orochimaru has more knowledge on jutsu, he has basic knowledge on medical stuff and loooads of battle experience. Tsunade is the Worlds Greatest Medic, medics are said to be intelligent to have the ability to understand the entire workings of the human body, which takes years of practice. She has knowledge on lots of jutsu, presumably from being from the Senju clan, some of its secrets have passed down with her. She also has lots of battle experience. She also develops an S Rank Seal.

Jiraiya is seen as a bit of a goofball at times, but he has mastered many powerful jutsu including Sage jutsu, which are particulary hard to learn. He has equally as high knowledge on seals - as we see from the scroll on his back, and his ability to seal KN4 away. He has knowledge on all kinds of ninja, as he travelled the world and trained Konan, Nagato and Yahiko. He also fights in Wars, like the other Sannin. He has knowledge on different areas, though he might not be just as intelligent as his teammates. His intelligence could be put down a .5 lower at best. But I certainly think Orochimaru is on par with Tsunade at least, and no more than a .5 higher than Jiraiya.

Kabuto is a fairly good tactician, and has massive knowledge on medical stuff. He got his knowledge on ET bodies through research and being under the tutelage of Orochimaru. He lacks the massive battle experience the Sannin have though. Which is why I say place him lower.

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 05:54 AM
Deva Pain
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 9/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10

In theory, his intelligence should be lower because he's being controlled, an inadamant object.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 05:56 AM
Deva Pain
Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 9/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 10/10

We only have one Pein on the Tier List. We're trying to only have one version per character to keep things simple.

So I'd change those stats to Nagato, not each individual Path.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 06:00 AM
We only have one Pein on the Tier List. We're trying to only have one version per character to keep things simple.

So I'd change those stats to Nagato, not each individual Path.

Well, they each are different characters, in their own right. So shouldn't they each have their own feats?

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-02-2011, 06:01 AM
I think the goal is too keep this databook small.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 06:04 AM
But nagato has no feats really. No speed,no attack speed. High stanima and intelligence. But he fails in everything else

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 06:08 AM
Shikamaru Nara:

Movement Speed: 6.5/10
Attacking Speed: 7.5/10
Reaction Speed: 7.5/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 5/10
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 8.5/10


I honestly think these are good, but you guys can feel free to disagree. I'm sure someone will. xD

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 06:20 AM
Reaction speed should be like 7-7.5 and I'd disagree with intelligence since that puts him just under people like Itachi and Minato. Think about that for a moment.

Even with IQ 200 hype, how does he stand up to Kage level characters?

Edit: Oh yeah Kaz I'll counter later

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 06:22 AM
Reaction speed should be like 7-7.5 and I'd disagree with intelligence since that puts him just under people like Itachi and Minato. Think about that for a moment.

Even with IQ 200 hype, how does he stand up to Kage level characters?

Tsunade. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2urb5u9.gif

But I changed it anyway.

Vivi
02-02-2011, 06:25 AM
Shikamaru Nara:

Movement Speed: 6.5/10
Attacking Speed: 7.5/10
Reaction Speed: 7.5/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 5/10
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 8.5/10


I honestly think these are good, but you guys can feel free to disagree. I'm sure someone will. xD

I only disagree with Int.
Under which Category of Int did you put this?
Battle Smarts?
Cause seeing his Strategic Int the only one I see topping him is his Father.
Just me though.

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 06:30 AM
That's what I was getting at.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-02-2011, 06:46 AM
But nagato has no feats really. No speed,no attack speed. High stanima and intelligence. But he fails in everything else

powerscale.

Yori
02-02-2011, 07:18 AM
Might Guy (Gated)

Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 9/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 07:24 AM
Must spread reputation? ;~;

I couldn't have put it better.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 07:28 AM
Nagato

Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 9/10
Intelligence: 10/10


anyone disagree?? This si powerscale and taking the fact of all the paths

Yori
02-02-2011, 07:31 AM
Nagato

Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 9/10
Intelligence: 10/10


anyone disagree?? This si powerscale and taking the fact of all the paths

His attacking should be ten

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 07:31 AM
I have it low because of the 5 second intervals between ST

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 07:50 AM
His attacking should be ten

http://i.imgur.com/XYX5V.gif

With the amount of prep it takes to do certain attacks, I think not.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-02-2011, 09:03 AM
Jiraiya travelled around the world and had knowledge on loooads of ninja. He also had knowledge on Nagato, Konan and Yahikos abilities. Tsunade also travelled around the world, and presumably has knowledge on lots of ninja also. Its also been stated that to be a medical ninja alone you need to be very intelligent, the fact Tsunade was noted as the World Greatest Medic should account for something. Tsunade and Jiraiya are aware of forbidden jutsu also. Oros knowledge on medical stuff is limited to getting DNA really. He got Kabuto to do the majority of the medical stuff.
That'd be because he trained them.
Dna takes more intelligence than normal Medical jutsu. And it does but she in no way beats Oro's knowledge. He was still linked to Akatsuki knew about the sharingan know's how to frigging transfer bodies and use multitudes of forbidden jutsu. Tsunade and Jiraiya haven't shown close to the amount of knowledge he has. The closest one is Jiraiya but he's not smarter than Oro. Oro was reffered to as a prodigy and a genius.
He pretty much gained the majority of that knowledge from Orochimaru. He was noted to be intelligent because of his knowledge on the human anatomy and medical stuff. He could also use opponents disadvantages to his advantage in the heat of battle, as he did with Tsunade. Him knowing where the ET bodies where, was presumably from asking around and research. Theres no way he could've known all of those bodies locations naturally. He's smart in different areas, but he's not as smart as the Sannin, imo.
That doesn't matter it's still his intelligence, the guy is planning a war, and you just can't go up and ask someone "Where is this guys body hurrr" he strategically picked each zombie so they could do a certain job. Not only that but he outsmarted Madara and already has a plan as to how he's going to take him out. And when has Tsunade shown any knowledge feats besides healing? Jiraiya showed some, not even close as these two though.
Also after working with Orochimaru for years, you'd have experience.

The Second Hokage developed Edo Tensei. Orochimaru learned the basics of how to use it. Though Hashirama and Tobirama were far weaker than they were hyped up to be, presumably he couldn't control the bodies to their full strength. Orochimaru has more knowledge on jutsu, he has basic knowledge on medical stuff and loooads of battle experience. Tsunade is the Worlds Greatest Medic, medics are said to be intelligent to have the ability to understand the entire workings of the human body, which takes years of practice. She has knowledge on lots of jutsu, presumably from being from the Senju clan, some of its secrets have passed down with her. She also has lots of battle experience. She also develops an S Rank Seal.

Jiraiya is seen as a bit of a goofball at times, but he has mastered many powerful jutsu including Sage jutsu, which are particulary hard to learn. He has equally as high knowledge on seals - as we see from the scroll on his back, and his ability to seal KN4 away. He has knowledge on all kinds of ninja, as he travelled the world and trained Konan, Nagato and Yahiko. He also fights in Wars, like the other Sannin. He has knowledge on different areas, though he might not be just as intelligent as his teammates. His intelligence could be put down a .5 lower at best. But I certainly think Orochimaru is on par with Tsunade at least, and no more than a .5 higher than Jiraiya.

Kabuto is a fairly good tactician, and has massive knowledge on medical stuff. He got his knowledge on ET bodies through research and being under the tutelage of Orochimaru. He lacks the massive battle experience the Sannin have though. Which is why I say place him lower.

Frost ninja
02-02-2011, 09:30 AM
I feel like, after my debate, making one for Sage Naruto based on the speedfeats he seemed to lack, as well as... ya know... all the other feats. xD

Blind Uchiha
02-02-2011, 09:33 AM
I feel like, after my debate, making one for Sage Naruto based on the speedfeats he seemed to lack, as well as... ya know... all the other feats. xD

Alright, I am completely and utterly tired of your crap about SM Naruto. SM Naruto doesn't lack feats and is by far one of the strongest characters in the series. If you can't realize that, you are letting that debate go to your head. If knowledge is your blade than use it >.>

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 09:39 AM
I have to agree Kuroi

deidara330
02-02-2011, 10:31 AM
Hell no. :/

Sasuke is doing good with 8.5. Sasuke is extremely overpowered and hax beyond comprehension. Using that many jutsu without dying from chakra exhaustion is some ;);););););););), PNJ and contradiction. He does not deserve a damn 9.1. Don't cuss up and down like we're talking about something important, much less something to be angry over, and certainly much less that we're at the point we've lost respect for each other. Unless you want to lose all of mine for you. (I would've said "Please" but seeing as you started your response with "Hell no" I didn't think it was appropriate.)

2. Prove it's BS, prove it's PNJ, and prove it contradicts anything, because until you do your claim is baseless.

Frost ninja
02-02-2011, 12:33 PM
:L I wasn't serious, you two. Humor, just for a giggle I thought I'd make a jab.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 12:54 PM
1. Don't cuss up and down like we're talking about something important, much less something to be angry over, and certainly much less that we're at the point we've lost respect for each other. Unless you want to lose all of mine for you. (I would've said "Please" but seeing as you started your response with "Hell no" I didn't think it was appropriate.)

2. Prove it's BS, prove it's PNJ, and prove it contradicts anything, because until you do your claim is baseless.

Plot is not a feat, it's what writers use to make their stories better, we all would've been disappointed had Kishi just made Sasuke leave after getting all hyped about him meeting Sasuke again. We also know he had a good amount of healing before fighting Danzo and Kakashi and Naruto. He didn't do much in either of the fights anyways, he shot maybe two Susanoo arrows and used a few chidori variants. He was also damn near completely blind at the end of the fight. He survived through both, had he gone without that healing he would've been dead. So if he's healed that =/= his stamina.

J-Sun answered it for me.

BTW: Guys, we need to approve the list of characters we already have before making new ones.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 01:27 PM
We've pretty much debated all current ones made, have we not?

deidara330
02-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Plot is not a feat, it's what writers use to make their stories better, we all would've been disappointed had Kishi just made Sasuke leave after getting all hyped about him meeting Sasuke again.

This isn't logic, this is an excuse. If Sasuke survived ten minutes against Danzo, whom he couldn't kill, you can't say "It wasn't a feat because without plot it wouldn't have happened". The statement itself admits that the feat occured but that it should be rendered invalid because it wouldn't have. By that logic FGT Ichigo doesn't exist and all debates on him are rendered completely invalid. Madara also can't use Izanagi, in fact Izanagi doesn't exist because without it the fight between Danzo and Sasuke would've been over in seconds and that makes it a plot device. Nor does Susano'o, as it's only come into play when a major character was about to die and its only use has been making fights more interesting. Aizen's Hogyoku transformations would never have occured had the author not wanted him to live to advance the plot, so by BG standards they do not exist. Nor does Sakura's antidote to Sasori's poison, because it was clearly plot Kankuro was allowed to live. All of Omoi's Lightning skills are plot because they were needed to keep Deidara from killing everyone, he can't use them. Naruto's Rasengan in its entirety is obviously plot because surely without plot Naruto would not have mastered it and would be dead ten times over without it.

Please don't tell me anything in the manga is invalid because of plot. It's just unrealistic, especially when the goal is to say who would actually win in a fight.

We also know he had a good amount of healing before fighting Danzo and Kakashi and Naruto. He didn't do much in either of the fights anyways, he shot maybe two Susanoo arrows and used a few chidori variants. He was also damn near completely blind at the end of the fight. He survived through both, had he gone without that healing he would've been dead. So if he's healed that =/= his stamina.I hope you're aware it's impossible for someone to be healed beyond full health, correct? Sasuke fought Danzo for over ten minutes straight, with no healing in between. (Karin healed him only after Izanagi had worn off.) He fought most of the battle using a jutsu that took away his life. It doesn't matter if recieved prior healing, it means that in any given situation he can fight going blind and perpetually losing health for ten minutes. And, despite Karin healing him before he killed Danzo, he was by absolutely no means at full health. He still fought Kakashi and Naruto afterwards.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-02-2011, 01:40 PM
This isn't logic, this is an excuse. If Sasuke survived ten minutes against Danzo, whom he couldn't kill, you can't say "It wasn't a feat because without plot it wouldn't have happened". The statement itself admits that the feat occured but that it should be rendered invalid because it wouldn't have. By that logic FGT Ichigo doesn't exist and all debates on him are rendered completely invalid. Madara also can't use Izanagi, in fact Izanagi doesn't exist because without it the fight between Danzo and Sasuke would've been over in seconds and that makes it a plot device. Nor does Susano'o, as it's only come into play when a major character was about to die and its only use has been making fights more interesting. Aizen's Hogyoku transformations would never have occured had the author not wanted him to live to advance the plot, so by BG standards they do not exist. Nor does Sakura's antidote to Sasori's poison, because it was clearly plot Kankuro was allowed to live. All of Omoi's Lightning skills are plot because they were needed to keep Deidara from killing everyone, he can't use them. Naruto's Rasengan in its entirety is obviously plot because surely without plot Naruto would not have mastered it and would be dead ten times over without it.
No there is a difference between what you're trying to make it seem like, you're saying everything in the manga is plot, and that's just a blatant dumb statement to make. Healing is healing is healing is healing. It doesn't matter how much he was healed he was STILL healed by KARIN not by himself, without Karin there he would've died. Plot is when a character is saved, or beats a character he normally couldn't because of an OUTSIDE force, i.e. Danzo not being able to use Shisui's eye, Karin healing him and helping him, Danzo leaving himself open cause he thought Sasuke wouldn't stab through Karin. Not the crap you came up with to try and disprove my arguement.
Please don't tell me anything in the manga is invalid because of plot. It's just unrealistic, especially when the goal is to say who would actually win in a fight.
Yes because Karin is obviously Sasuke's standard equipment in every fight.
I hope you're aware it's impossible for someone to be healed beyond full health, correct? Sasuke fought Danzo for over ten minutes straight, with no healing in between. (Karin healed him only after Izanagi had worn off.) He fought most of the battle using a jutsu that took away his life. It doesn't matter if recieved prior healing, it means that in any given situation he can fight going blind and perpetually losing health for ten minutes. And, despite Karin healing him before he killed Danzo, he was by absolutely no means at full health. He still fought Kakashi and Naruto afterwards.
Yeah cause I'm not stupid despite your wording. He was healed before he even fought him throughly by Karin and his chakra was replenished by, Zetsu and he wasn't even feeling the effects of Susanoo until AFTER the fight when he fought Naruto and Kakashi until then his eyes were fine. And I dunno what you call a fight by activating Susanoo shooting one arrow and using a chidori then getting your ass saved isn't a fight it's a skirmish, had that been a full fledged fight where either of them had gone for the kill Sasuke would've died.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 01:47 PM
Sasukes stamina still stands very high.

The fact he was able to fight off A for so long, and then fight Mei Terumi straight after should show that. As well as the fact he managed to last so long against Danzo without becoming so tired out to the point it made a significant impact on his stamina. [Sasuke may have died during this fight without PNJ but PNJ doesn't deduct any of his stamina points]. Lets also not forget his fight with Deidara, he uses up the majority of his chakra on high power jutsu - and even in the end, on the brink of exhaustion - he's able to Summon Manda, a gigantic Boss Summon which notably requires a lot of chakra.

I have no problem with giving Sasuke a 9 in stamina. Lowering it to 8.5 doesn't particulary bother me but I don't understand such the fuss about lowering it. He can spam Amaterasu like theres no tomorrow, and can put up a Susano'o for quite a long time. We know Susano'o is very draining.

8.5-9 is fine, imo. Also, guys - respect? Calling each others points crap and BS isn't the way we're supposed to debate .__.

Yori
02-02-2011, 01:58 PM
He fought Danzo, then was able to call forth his Susanoo against Kakashi, and pull a chidori against Naruto and you guy's are telling me that doesn't count? Are you serious?

Edit: By the way whats up with all the negativity lately? Ease up guys

deidara330
02-02-2011, 02:30 PM
No there is a difference between what you're trying to make it seem like, you're saying everything in the manga is plot, and that's just a blatant dumb statement to make.


I never said everything in manga was plot, I said the arguement you used in that paragraph could be used to apply to a number of situations where it's overlooked in other debates. (Or rather, I implied such.) I was using an exaggeration to point out (what I believe is) the flaw in your logic.


Healing is healing is healing is healing. It doesn't matter how much he was healed he was STILL healed by KARIN not by himself, without Karin there he would've died.


If Sasuke hadn't wasted time claiming Uchiha's greatness and made a straight kill for Danzo, he wouldn't have to have been healed. The healing prior to the fight makes it no more than a fair fight, the healing during the fight only happened after the point where Sasuke was capable of killing Danzo. I could also say if Danzo hadn't had the time to unseal his arm he would've died. Without Izanagi Danzo would surely be dead.


Plot is when a character is saved, or beats a character he normally couldn't because of an OUTSIDE force, i.e. Danzo not being able to use Shisui's eye,


That wasn't a part of your arguement before, although that doesn't make it any less valid. However, while it is true Sasuke may have died early on due to the power of Danzo's Sharingan, we don't know of its effectiveness in battle. Ao fought Shisui and knew of his Sharingan's effects, so he must've found a way around it. Sasuke is, by feats, more skilled in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, and Taijutsu than Ao, so unless something specific was necessary to defeat Shisui's Sharingan (which we can't assume) we can't exactly say for sure this would have happened. This is all beside the point anyways, as Danzo's inability to use Shisui's Sharingan doesn't affect Sasuke's show of stamina.


Karin healing him and helping him,


Again, healed after the point he could've killed Danzo, and outside a single failed attack and providing Sasuke with knowledge he didn't need, Karin was useless.


Danzo leaving himself open cause he thought Sasuke wouldn't stab through Karin.


Danzo left himself open because he expected Sasuke to care about his teammates. He used the hostage tactic because he himself was low on chakra and needed to conserve Shisui's eye to use on Madara. I could argue that, had he not taken Karin hostage, not only would he have been killed, but Karin would still be helping Sasuke.


Not the crap you came up with to try and disprove my arguement.


My entire point is meant to be on Sasuke's stamina. Most of what you're saying to defend your arguement has little to do with that and what does, I find to be dismissive of the facts of the fight.


Yes because Karin is obviously Sasuke's standard equipment in every fight.

Sasuke had no need of Karin beyond making the fight fairer than it was, even though among Danzo's standard equipment is a seal which would likely have caused his loss had he not had time to remove it prior to the fight. And again, Sasuke's stamina throughout most of the fight was his own.


Yeah cause I'm not stupid despite your wording. He was healed before he even fought him throughly by Karin and his chakra was replenished by, Zetsu


At what point did Zetsu replenish his chakra? I don't remember this.


and he wasn't even feeling the effects of Susanoo until AFTER the fight when he fought Naruto and Kakashi until then his eyes were fine.


I don't see how this does anything but prove Sasuke's stamina. He was already going blind before the fight started. Feeling the effects has nothing to do with whether they exist.


And I dunno what you call a fight by activating Susanoo shooting one arrow and using a chidori then getting your ass saved isn't a fight it's a skirmish,


Susano'o was active when the fight started, after Danzo put a curse on Sasuke, and actually Susano'o wasn't de-activated for much of the fight after he removed the curse. The fact that he had Susano'o active for that long means that for that duration of the fight Susano'o was taking away his life force. He also summoned a Hawk and used Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. It was more of a fight than Kakashi's battle with Pain.


had that been a full fledged fight where either of them had gone for the kill Sasuke would've died.Danzo didn't go for the kill? For what reason? He entered the fight with the intent to kill Sasuke and at one point actually believed he had succeeded. Sasuke kept Danzo alive until Danzo confirmed what Madara had told him, and after that he spent the entire fight trying to kill Danzo. In fact, we already know Danzo would've died about 5 times without Izanagi. If you want I can reference every time Danzo revived with Izanagi and every time Danzo came close to killing Sasuke just to prove to you they were both constantly going for the kill.

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 02:33 PM
We've pretty much debated all current ones made, have we not?

Yeah Im pretty sure we have.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 03:01 PM
Kk. I flicked back pages, every given character stats seems to have been debated at least somewhat and agreed upon. Though theres a few below, that weren't touched on -

Onoki

Movement Speed: 8/10 -- Kept up Deidara's Bird Easily
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10 -- Check when he used Dust release on Sasuke
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 5/10 -- Physically he is weak
Stamina: 7.5/10
Strength: 7/10 -- Physically he isn't strong
Intelligence: 10/10 -- The oldest Kage, fought Madara and lived.


Killer Bee

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 8/10 -- Unlike his brother, he showed impressive intelligence while he Fought Sasuke and Kisame

Anyone have problems with these? I think I'd lower his strength a lot more, Yori. When he threw a punch at Kabuto, it barely did anything. His only " strength " feat is lifting that turtle island. But he used his flying jutsu to do that, little strength was needed. Also, he has brittle bones, he surely can't fight over extended periods of time? Lower his stamina more.

10/10 for strength? Nah, in Hachibi form maybe - but Hachibi isn't really Killer Bee's actual strength .__. Asides that, looks fine.

Also -

Sakura Haruno

Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 6/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 5/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 9.5/10
Intelligence: 8.5/10

Sasori
Movement Speed: 8/10 (Crossing a large distance quite easily with his harpoon thing)
Attacking Speed: 8/10 (His hands move quickly when moving the puppets)
Reaction Speed: 7/10
Durability: 7/10 (Just talking about the puppet body, not the heart.)
Stamina: 10/10
Strength: 5/10
Intelligence: 10/10 (Human puppets, and analytical skill against Sakura & Chiyo.)

In Hiruko puppet, his movement speed sucks. In his normal form, his movement speed is decent. Travelling that distance with the harpoon isn't anything that special really. So I'd say lower it to about 6. Intelligence definitly shouldn't be at a 10. Not whenever people like Sannin and Kakashi only have 8-9's. He showed impressive knowledge on poisons and puppets. As well a degree of analytical skill. But I wouldn't place him anything higher than a 7.5 or 8.

Same with Sakura, intelligence at 8.5? I think not. Thats only a 0.5 lower than Tsunade. And Tsunade is obviously a lot more intelligent with more battle experience, medical knowledge and general knowledge on jutsu. She should be put down to a 7.5, imo.


I sound like such a Simon Cowell xD

deidara330
02-02-2011, 03:08 PM
Actually, on the matter of Onoki's strength: Chapter 515, Page 1, Panel 4. His hand is on the turtle. There are two explanations: He lifted it with his own strength or he used a jutsu to lift it. I'd go with explanation 1, because from the statements the ninja make it seems like he lifted it himself, and there isn't truly anything to suggest he's using a jutsu, at least that I can tell. Additionally, he punched a hole in Deidara's clay clone of Kabuto and forced him off of Deidara's bird. That was a stone clone as well, meaning it probably didn't have the same strength Onoki had.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 03:20 PM
GOGOGO (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4694359&postcount=100)

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 03:21 PM
Actually, on the matter of Onoki's strength: Chapter 515, Page 1, Panel 4. His hand is on the turtle. There are two explanations: He lifted it with his own strength or he used a jutsu to lift it. I'd go with explanation 1, because from the statements the ninja make it seems like he lifted it himself, and there isn't truly anything to suggest he's using a jutsu, at least that I can tell. Additionally, he punched a hole in Deidara's clay clone of Kabuto and forced him off of Deidara's bird. That was a stone clone as well, meaning it probably didn't have the same strength Onoki had.

Onoki grants his grandchildren flight as he touches them using his flying technique in chapters before. It doesn't make ANY sense at all for such an old man to posses that strength. His grandkids are also holding the turtle with him, which would also suggest it isn't a strength feat. As clearly none of them have any large amounts of muscle, and they aren't medics like Tsunade or Sakura either. Of course, even someone like Tsunade or SM Naruto couldn't lift those kind of weights.

So theres no way that was a strength feat. Clay = Clay. Its not hard to punch through :/ And if someone threw a fist made of stone at you and hit you. And then an old man with no notable amounts of muscle threw a punch and hit you. Which one do you thinks going to hurt more? The Stone, naturally. Also, even if Onokis strength was greater than the strength of his rock clones - he has yet to show any strength feats. And the strength feat his clone showed was pretty rubbish.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 03:26 PM
Onoki grants his grandchildren flight as he touches them using his flying technique in chapters before. It doesn't make ANY sense at all for such an old man to posses that strength. His grandkids are also holding the turtle with him, which would also suggest it isn't a strength feat. As clearly none of them have any large amounts of muscle, and they aren't medics like Tsunade or Sakura either. Of course, even someone like Tsunade or SM Naruto couldn't lift those kind of weights.

So theres no way that was a strength feat. Clay = Clay. Its not hard to punch through :/ And if someone threw a fist made of stone at you and hit you. And then an old man with no notable amounts of muscle threw a punch and hit you. Which one do you thinks going to hurt more? The Stone, naturally. Also, even if Onokis strength was greater than the strength of his rock clones - he has yet to show any strength feats. And the strength feat his clone showed was pretty rubbish.

That matters why? They are from an entirely different village, meaning their jutsu and techniques are completely different from the Hidden Leaf. A lot of things in Naruto make NO SENSE.

Clay is actually pretty hard once it is harden into adobe or stone.

Personally, Onoki seems pretty damn strong to me.

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 03:32 PM
@Kaz: I still disagree with Neji's 9 in reaction as it was not proven that he put up the shield just for that moment, and that would put him above Kakashi in terms of reaction speed.
I only disagree with Int.
Under which Category of Int did you put this?
Battle Smarts?
Cause seeing his Strategic Int the only one I see topping him is his Father.
Just me though.
Overall, Shikamaru wouldn't be like 9.5 or whatever it was and someone like Kakashi who was directly compared to him was able to make better strategies in the heat of battle, while Shikamaru consistently has to run away. If there was a category made just for tactical abilities, then Shikamaru could have a higher score.
In Hiruko puppet, his movement speed sucks. In his normal form, his movement speed is decent. Travelling that distance with the harpoon isn't anything that special really. So I'd say lower it to about 6. Intelligence definitly shouldn't be at a 10. Not whenever people like Sannin and Kakashi only have 8-9's. He showed impressive knowledge on poisons and puppets. As well a degree of analytical skill. But I wouldn't place him anything higher than a 7.5 or 8.
Go back to the chapter and notice how there's a massive distance which Sasori crossed in a matter of moments, even beating out Sakura's reaction speed with the harpoon. I'm not referring to the Hiruko puppet, I'm referring to the puppet which is Sasori himself.

I think I lowered intelligence down to 9.5, but I'll settle for 9.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 03:39 PM
@Kaz: I still disagree with Neji's 9 in reaction as it was not proven that he put up the shield just for that moment, and that would put him above Kakashi in terms of reaction speed.

Wait, what? :/

It was only a chakra shroud used to detect the arrow since Neji knew Kidomaru was aiming for his blindspot.

Nonetheless, to make you happy, I will lower his reaction speed to 8.5.

deidara330
02-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Onoki grants his grandchildren flight as he touches them using his flying technique in chapters before. It doesn't make ANY sense at all for such an old man to posses that strength. His grandkids are also holding the turtle with him, which would also suggest it isn't a strength feat. As clearly none of them have any large amounts of muscle, and they aren't medics like Tsunade or Sakura either. Of course, even someone like Tsunade or SM Naruto couldn't lift those kind of weights.

So theres no way that was a strength feat. Clay = Clay. Its not hard to punch through :/ And if someone threw a fist made of stone at you and hit you. And then an old man with no notable amounts of muscle threw a punch and hit you. Which one do you thinks going to hurt more? The Stone, naturally. Also, even if Onokis strength was greater than the strength of his rock clones - he has yet to show any strength feats. And the strength feat his clone showed was pretty rubbish.Actually, only Kurotsuchi is a confirmed grandchild of Onoki.

Statements (yes, statements) suggest otherwise. Such as, "I can't believe he's transporting the entire turtle!" and "My back is really not going to like this."

:| On the very panel I provided you can see Kurotsuchi isn't even touching the turtle, and Akatsuchi may be but his asking only if Onoki is alright suggests he isn't, as well as the fact that if he is holding up the turtle his position is very ineffective.

However, Tsunade and Naruto's strengths are augmented by jutsu. Even if Onoki is using a jutsu, it's plausable that he can use the same jutsu to enhance his strength in practical combat. He's literally only used physical force against an enemy once, and that was the clay clone feat. That feat itself doesn't give anything to restrict Onoki's strength, because even if lifting the turtle were a feat of pure strength it's not likely his punch would've had a different effect against the clone due to the simple size of his fist.

Actually, I do believe hardened clay is difficult to punch through. However, even soft clay should still provide some resistance against punches. It really depends on how stiff the clay is. Despite that, Onoki flew into Kabuto's clone and his punch met no resistance. His fist connected and in the next panel went through.

By similar logic, stone in general should actually be stronger. If someone throws a rock at your head, it can do more damage than if someone simply hits you in the head, or even if someone hits your head while holding the rock. Besides that, it's not a matter of how much it hurts, it's a matter of whether Onoki's punch going through the clone was a decent feat of strength. By clone logic, the clone should've had strength equivalent to or less than Onoki's own strength, regardless the substance it's made from.

There's also the fact that he didn't just punch through the clone, but forced it off the clay bird and moved it a good distance away.

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Wait, what? :/

It was only a chakra shroud used to detect the arrow since Neji knew Kidomaru was aiming for his blindspot.

Nonetheless, to make you happy, I will lower his reaction speed to 8.5.
Yay!

I'm pretty sure it was to deflect it though...

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 03:49 PM
Yay!

I'm pretty sure it was to deflect it though...

Chapter 196: Page 5

It was slightly deflected.

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 03:54 PM
Oh, ok. I'll go with that, and Neji is a Jonin now so yeah. I'm also lowering Sasori's movement speed and intelligence stats.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 04:00 PM
That matters why? They are from an entirely different village, meaning their jutsu and techniques are completely different from the Hidden Leaf. A lot of things in Naruto make NO SENSE.

Doesn't really matter. Theres never been any other way people in Naruto have amplified their strength without muscle [Like A] or Insane chakra control like Tsunade. SM Narutos Sage chakra also vastly increases his strength. There hasn't been any other way in which one can increase their strength. So assuming old Onoki who logically shouldn't be very strong can lift Gigantic Turtles is stupid.

Not gonna randomly assume he has some means of amping his strength ._.

Clay is actually pretty hard once it is harden into adobe or stone.


But we know Deidaras clay wasn't that hard, as we see it be produced from his hands all the time. Sasuke also stabs it with chidro senbon during his fight with Deidara - iirc?

Personally, Onoki seems pretty damn strong to me.

I'm sure he's fairly strong for someone so old. But just not deservant of that stat.


Go back to the chapter and notice how there's a massive distance which Sasori crossed in a matter of moments, even beating out Sakura's reaction speed with the harpoon. I'm not referring to the Hiruko puppet, I'm referring to the puppet which is Sasori himself.

I think I lowered intelligence down to 9.5, but I'll settle for 9.

Sakura was hiding behind a rock, she couldn't see the attack coming and was totally unprepared. It didn't really beat out her reaction. His movement speed is decent. Him travelling that distance is pretty good. However, he could've reached Chiyo much quicker when he was trying to attack her , before Sakura grabbed hold of his harpoon and smashed him. Kind of an inconsistency me thinks. Which is why I say - its decent.

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:06 PM
Itachi Uchiha

Movement Speed - 8/10
Attacking Speed - 10/10 - Depends on what you mean with Attack
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10 - Susanoo
Stamina - 5/10
Strength - 7/10
Intelligence - 10/10

Why is Itachi a 10 in intelligence, he has shown no type of intelligence feat except for trying to plan out a way on beating Madara, which failed by the way!

He also has shown no strength in general, This is not based on feat, i can tell.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:13 PM
Oh, ok. I'll go with that, and Neji is a Jonin now so yeah. I'm also lowering Sasori's movement speed and intelligence stats.

Kuromaki, be my partner.

~Sparkley eyes.~

You are like the only one editing the OP with me.

Doesn't really matter. Theres never been any other way people in Naruto have amplified their strength without muscle [Like A] or Insane chakra control like Tsunade. SM Narutos Sage chakra also vastly increases his strength. There hasn't been any other way in which one can increase their strength. So assuming old Onoki who logically shouldn't be very strong can lift Gigantic Turtles is stupid.

It does matter. We know very little about him, their jutsu/techniques or their village. He was shown lifting a damn Giant Turtle Island while others were telling him that lifting so much weight would hurt his back. That means, dude is strong. Since when do you use logic? You are all about feats. Onoki lifting a damn island is a feat.

Not gonna randomly assume he has some means of amping his strength ._.

Nothing to assume when you see it with your own eyes.

But we know Deidaras clay wasn't that hard, as we see it be produced from his hands all the time. Sasuke also stabs it with chidro senbon during his fight with Deidara - iirc?

Naturally, clay is soft until hardened. Once clay hardens, its durability is highly enhanced.

I'm sure he's fairly strong for someone so old. But just not deservant of that stat.

Dude lifted an island, he deserves a 20.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 04:15 PM
Actually, only Kurotsuchi is a confirmed grandchild of Onoki.

Statements (yes, statements) suggest otherwise. Such as, "I can't believe he's transporting the entire turtle!" and "My back is really not going to like this."

:| On the very panel I provided you can see Kurotsuchi isn't even touching the turtle, and Akatsuchi may be but his asking only if Onoki is alright suggests he isn't, as well as the fact that if he is holding up the turtle his position is very ineffective.

However, Tsunade and Naruto's strengths are augmented by jutsu. Even if Onoki is using a jutsu, it's plausable that he can use the same jutsu to enhance his strength in practical combat. He's literally only used physical force against an enemy once, and that was the clay clone feat. That feat itself doesn't give anything to restrict Onoki's strength, because even if lifting the turtle were a feat of pure strength it's not likely his punch would've had a different effect against the clone due to the simple size of his fist.

Actually, I do believe hardened clay is difficult to punch through. However, even soft clay should still provide some resistance against punches. It really depends on how stiff the clay is. Despite that, Onoki flew into Kabuto's clone and his punch met no resistance. His fist connected and in the next panel went through.

By similar logic, stone in general should actually be stronger. If someone throws a rock at your head, it can do more damage than if someone simply hits you in the head, or even if someone hits your head while holding the rock. Besides that, it's not a matter of how much it hurts, it's a matter of whether Onoki's punch going through the clone was a decent feat of strength. By clone logic, the clone should've had strength equivalent to or less than Onoki's own strength, regardless the substance it's made from.

There's also the fact that he didn't just punch through the clone, but forced it off the clay bird and moved it a good distance away.

Orly? My bad xD

/Shrugs. Thats suggestive at best. Holding his arm up and pushing it might strain his back, but theres no way he's carrying that whole turtle. Its just totally illogical.

If Onoki had the physical strength to lift Island Turtles, he's also have the physical strength to One Shot people like Tsunade and Sakura. We clearly see taijutsu isn't particulary his style. He uses Dust Style at a range. You're only guessing that he can improve his strength with a jutsu. But it makes so much more sense that he used the same jutsu on Kurotsuchi and Akatsuchi to make them fly. Think about it, a tiny old man, with appauling back problems, no muscle or notable strength buffing chakra. How much sense does it make that he carried that turtle?

There was nothing suggesting it was hardened, though. Deidaras clay is generally soft.

Depends on speed, force applied etc. At best, Onokis strength is on par with that clone.

One of Pre Sakuras punches sent Ino flying backwards. And her strength was never anything that special. I wouldn't call that a particulary good feat.

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Sakura was hiding behind a rock, she couldn't see the attack coming and was totally unprepared. It didn't really beat out her reaction. His movement speed is decent. Him travelling that distance is pretty good. However, he could've reached Chiyo much quicker when he was trying to attack her , before Sakura grabbed hold of his harpoon and smashed him. Kind of an inconsistency me thinks. Which is why I say - its decent.
271 page 21, she saw it but couldn't move outta the way in time. I lowered his stats btw.
Why is Itachi a 10 in intelligence, he has shown no type of intelligence feat except for trying to plan out a way on beating Madara, which failed by the way!

He also has shown no strength in general, This is not based on feat, i can tell.
He basically planned out his final battle with the Sauce.
Kuromaki, be my partner.

~Sparkley eyes.~

You are like the only one editing the OP with me.
Really, xD

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:19 PM
Pain

Movement Speed - 8.5-9/10
Attacking Speed - 9/10
Reaction Speed - 9.5/10
Durability - 9/10
Stamina - 10/10
Strength - 8/10
Intelligence - 10/10


Guy Sensi

Movement Speed - 10/10
Attacking Speed - 10/10
Reaction Speed - 10/10
Durability - 10/10
Stamina - 10/10
Strength - 9.5/10
Intelligence - 8/10( I gave him a 8 because of the fact that he created the Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger, and also he graduated a genin at age 6 and became a chunin at age 7 or 11 a believe)

This may seem like a am giving him too much power but if anyone disagrees, i will be willingly to debate with you.

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:20 PM
He basically planned out his final battle with the Sauce.

Really, xD[/QUOTE]

Just because he planned out the fight does not make him a 10 in smartness.

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Kuromaki, be my partner.

~Sparkley eyes.~

You are like the only one editing the OP with me.



It does matter. We know very little about him, their jutsu/techniques or their village. He was shown lifting a damn Giant Turtle Island while others were telling him that lifting so much weight would hurt his back. That means, dude is strong. Since when do you use logic? You are all about feats. Onoki lifting a damn island is a feat.



Nothing to assume when you see it with your own eyes.



Naturally, clay is soft until hardened. Once clay hardens, its durability is highly enhanced.



Dude lifted an island, he deserves a 20.

Now your just being spiteful, Kaz. Quit it.

The arguement is that he's using the same flying jutsu he used on Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi to allow them to fly, that he's using on the the turtle. Which makes more sense than him suddenly gaining the strength to lift it. He's an old feeble man with a bad back, and no notable muscle either.

EDIT: Its unclear whether she see's it or not Kuro. In chapters before she's hiding behind a rock. The harpoon goes around the rock and slices past her. But in the third panel, we see her pose a worried expression. This doesn't necessarily mean she saw it coming though. She could've heard it or something. And kk =]

Kuromaki
02-02-2011, 04:25 PM
I added Kabuto, but I disagree with some of the others on Kazumi's list (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4694359&postcount=100), and I'm not even halfway through it. It's gonna take a hell of a long time debating all of those people.
Just because he planned out the fight does not make him a 10 in smartness.
It gives him a high score, but I don't really remember anything else that makes him stand out...

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:26 PM
271 page 21, she saw it but couldn't move outta the way in time. I lowered his stats btw.

I mentioned that to her in the other thread.

He basically planned out his final battle with the Sauce.

The Sauce? xD!

Really, xD

Yes, my love. ♥

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:28 PM
I added Kabuto, but I disagree with some of the others on Kazumi's list (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4694359&postcount=100), and I'm not even halfway through it. It's gonna take a hell of a long time debating all of those people.

It gives him a high score, but I don't really remember anything else that makes him stand out...

exactly... I would give him a 8 or 8.5. i do not think he is smarter than Kakashi

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Now your just being spiteful, Kaz. Quit it.

The arguement is that he's using the same flying jutsu he used on Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi to allow them to fly, that he's using on the the turtle. Which makes more sense than him suddenly gaining the strength to lift it. He's an old feeble man with a bad back, and no notable muscle either.

True statement was true. :/

Nonetheless, he did use that Flight Technique on that Giant Turtle Island, which aided him in carrying it. It is still a damn island. Islands are not light.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
We can lower Itachi's intelligence to 9?

Yori
02-02-2011, 04:39 PM
No we can not

Lady Tsunade
02-02-2011, 04:39 PM
True statement was true. :/

Nonetheless, he did use that Flight Technique on that Giant Turtle Island, which aided him in carrying it. It is still a damn island. Islands are not light.

No. Feats>Hype. Tenten is not deservant of going purely by hype. She isn't noted as a particulary strong ninja. But lets not go into this again. Most people agree I apply logic. So please don't leave a bitchy comment like that again, Kazzy.

He wouldn't need to apply much strength if the Islands flying.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:40 PM
No we can not

Too late. ._.

Anyway, what makes you think Itachi deserves a 10?

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:41 PM
Tsunade

Movement Speed - 7/10
Attacking Speed - 6.5/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10
Stamina - 10/10
Strength - 10/10
Intelligence - 9.5/10

I think this just right, how about u guys?

Yori
02-02-2011, 04:43 PM
Too late. ._.

Anyway, what makes you think Itachi deserves a 10?

Um Successfully planned his fight with Sasuke to the end and even beyond. Age 7 graduated from the ninja academy, Chuunin at age 10, Anbu Captain at 13. Successfully planted Ammy into Sasuke eye as insurance.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:43 PM
No. Feats>Hype. Tenten is not deservant of going purely by hype. She isn't noted as a particulary strong ninja. But lets not go into this again. Most people agree I apply logic. So please don't leave a bitchy comment like that again, Kazzy.

He wouldn't need to apply much strength if the Islands flying.

Feats > Hype when feats are present. Anyway, I agree. And, I am naturally a ;););););). Especially, when I debate.

He would still need a significant amount. A lot more than most shinobi could apply.

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Tsunade

Movement Speed - 7/10
Attacking Speed - 6.5/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10
Stamina - 10/10
Strength - 10/10
Intelligence - 9.5/10

I think this just right, how about u guys?

Tsunade already has one.

Um Successfully planned his fight with Sasuke to the end and even beyond. Age 7 graduated from the ninja academy, Chuunin at age 10, Anbu Captain at 13. Successfully planted Ammy into Sasuke eye as insurance.

9.5?

Yori
02-02-2011, 04:47 PM
Tsunade already has one.



9.5?

May I ask whats holding back the .5?

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 04:55 PM
May I ask whats holding back the .5?

What Itachi did was phenomenal and required a lot of tactical analysis and strategic planning, but giving Itachi a 10 places him on Orochimaru's, Kabuto's and Madara's intellect level. I mean, Itachi is intelligent, but does he deserve a 10?

I like Itachi, so I am not sure.

EDIT: That also puts him on Minato's and Sage's intellect level.

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Might Guy (Gated)

Movement Speed: 10/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 10/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 9/10
Strength: 9/10
Intelligence: 7/10

His strength Should be ten since he is already so strong in base.

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 05:04 PM
What Itachi did was phenomenal and required a lot of tactical analysis and strategic planning, but giving Itachi a 10 places him on Orochimaru's, Kabuto's and Madara's intellect level. I mean, Itachi is intelligent, but does he deserve a 10?

I like Itachi, so I am not sure.

when u say this, most of the post does not make sense, Many times i have seen character who have a 10s compared to others who also have tens but really should not because they are not on the same level as the real number 10. And just to let anyone know.... I TEN IS A PERFECT!

EX: Pain attacking Speed= TO A, Killer Bee, ANd GUY????? I do not think so

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 05:11 PM
when u say this, most of the post does not make sense, Many times i have seen character who have a 10s compared to others who also have tens but really should not because they are not on the same level as the real number 10. And just to let anyone know.... I TEN IS A PERFECT!

EX: Pain attacking Speed= TO A, Killer Bee, ANd GUY????? I do not think so

If you feel a character does not deserve a certain stat, debate it.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 05:12 PM
Tsunade

Movement Speed - 7/10
Attacking Speed - 6.5/10
Reaction Speed - 9/10
Durability - 10/10
Stamina - 10/10
Strength - 10/10
Intelligence - 9.5/10

I think this just right, how about u guys?


Not 10 stanima. A Young Kabuto last longer against her. And I do believe she was panting and dead tired when she fought him.

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Not 10 stanima. A Young Kabuto last longer against her. And I do believe she was panting and dead tired when she fought him.

SOO Not true. Before the fight Began, Kabuto took a pill that made him stronger and just in general better than his original form.

Tsunade was only Panting when she released her Yin seal thing on her forehead, which also strains the body. I gave her a 10 because of the fact that she lasted long enough to give Orochimaru the beating of a lifetime. i also gave her a 10 because she healed everyone in the hidden leaf village consistently when pain was attacking. And was also able to save those who were still alive from Pain's Almighty Push tech.

That requires alot of stam.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 05:44 PM
She didnt heal anyone during the Pain Arc. Her summon did not her herself. IF she would of healed everyone in the Leaf village, than people wouldn't of died, broken bones etc. I do believe she was not out or something for a while after that arc. Just because Kabuto got stronger does not mean she has an increase in stamina. Yeah she released her Yin seal but she still tried out fast. Remind you that was before the time skip and we are rateing this on after Time skip, so takening for granted of common Sense, She only got older and have less stanima. She is no where near a 10 in stanama. Maybe a 8 at most

Midnight789
02-02-2011, 05:53 PM
She didnt heal anyone during the Pain Arc. Her summon did not her herself. IF she would of healed everyone in the Leaf village, than people wouldn't of died, broken bones etc. I do believe she was not out or something for a while after that arc. Just because Kabuto got stronger does not mean she has an increase in stamina. Yeah she released her Yin seal but she still tried out fast. Remind you that was before the time skip and we are rateing this on after Time skip, so takening for granted of common Sense, She only got older and have less stanima. She is no where near a 10 in stanama. Maybe a 8 at most

U really need to look back when pain was invading the hidden leaf village. She was transporting her Chakra through her slug to; Yes heal people. like Ibki when he got a hole in his stomach.

And considering how damaged Orochimaru was at the end of the fight, i say she did her job. she only stop when he left, other wise, she would have kept going. Just like the time she was about to face on of the pains, but Naruto stepped in.

U can not assume that Just because time pasted, she got weaker.
according to ur logic, can i not say the same for orchimaru and Jirayia. they actually have shown to be stronger than when they were young.

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 06:03 PM
I didnt state she got weaker. I said her Stanima droped with age, Like everyone esles would.She has to be around her 53-54 years of age. Remeber Oro could take bodies, so his stanima is up because of that. JPervy sag could your Narture chakra also besides his own. SO there is more stanima for him. But her not so much. She is no where near a 10 in stanaima

Sephiroth
02-02-2011, 06:59 PM
SOO Not true. Before the fight Began, Kabuto took a pill that made him stronger and just in general better than his original form.

Tsunade was only Panting when she released her Yin seal thing on her forehead, which also strains the body. I gave her a 10 because of the fact that she lasted long enough to give Orochimaru the beating of a lifetime. i also gave her a 10 because she healed everyone in the hidden leaf village consistently when pain was attacking. And was also able to save those who were still alive from Pain's Almighty Push tech.

That requires alot of stam.

I want you to show me proof that she was healing EVERYONE in the leaf village. That includes all teh ninja even none main characters. And all the cillivians. In the village.

deidara330
02-02-2011, 07:16 PM
/Shrugs. Thats suggestive at best. Holding his arm up and pushing it might strain his back, but theres no way he's carrying that whole turtle. Its just totally illogical.

If Onoki had the physical strength to lift Island Turtles, he's also have the physical strength to One Shot people like Tsunade and Sakura. We clearly see taijutsu isn't particulary his style. He uses Dust Style at a range. You're only guessing that he can improve his strength with a jutsu. But it makes so much more sense that he used the same jutsu on Kurotsuchi and Akatsuchi to make them fly. Think about it, a tiny old man, with appauling back problems, no muscle or notable strength buffing chakra. How much sense does it make that he carried that turtle?

There was nothing suggesting it was hardened, though. Deidaras clay is generally soft.

Depends on speed, force applied etc. At best, Onokis strength is on par with that clone.

One of Pre Sakuras punches sent Ino flying backwards. And her strength was never anything that special. I wouldn't call that a particulary good feat.I did say suggest in my post, did I not? Besides, you saying it would be illogical for him to have lifted the turtle was actually stated in the chapter itself. More implied really, by "I can't believe he's transporting the entire turtle!".

However ridiculous it may seem has nothing to do with it. So what if he could one-shot Tsunade and Sakura? He already could with his stone jutsu, his strength just confirms it. Taijutsu isn't his style, but when he was in the air he attacked Kabuto physically. He only refrains from it due to his bad back, if he didn't have such problems he'd probably be doing Taijutsu fighting just as much as Dust Style fighting.

There's no actual explanation for him carrying the turtle other than him improving his strength or him using his own strength. His hand was on the turtle, he was carrying the turtle, everyone was acting like he was carrying the turtle. "If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's a duck." It doesn't matter if it's illogical. It's not like jutsu are very logical to begin with. The fact that Danzo and Hiruzen could both fight well at the ages of 80 is itself hard to believe. And, if he'd used the flying jutsu on the turtle, he wouldn't need to have his hand on it. The turtle could fly itself to the base. If he was using the jutsu as he carried it, then its effect would be pointless. From what we've seen, it isn't a jutsu that makes someone have less weight, because otherwise the floating and movement in general would be a large problem. It's more of a jutsu that creates self-imposed flight. In that case, even if he effected the turtle while he had his hand on it, the jutsu wouldn't have done anything.

Whatever. He was still able to push it back. You're using Sakura's PTS strength feat to say throwing someone back isn't much of a feat, but the fact that it's PTS Sakura doesn't actually make it a less impressive strength feat. That's like saying a drunk guy walking a tightrope makes walking a tightrope an easy thing.

I'm just going to stick with "I don't care if it doesn't make sense; He carried the turtle and that's that."

Kazumi Saitama
02-02-2011, 08:24 PM
"If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's a duck."

Classic. Anyway.

I do believe Onoki used the Flight Technique on that Giant Turtle Island. As you stated prior, he kept his hand under the turtle, despite having a bad back. And, if he solely relied on the Flight Technique, he would have removed his hand. So, considering he kept his hand on it, he still had to amply a certain amount of strength to carry that massive beast. A lot more strength than any other shinobi could. However, if you believe he did not use the Flight Technique to assist him, I am still down with it. Not like anything else in this series make sense.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 05:37 AM
Feats > Hype when feats are present. Anyway, I agree. And, I am naturally a ;););););). Especially, when I debate.

He would still need a significant amount. A lot more than most shinobi could apply.

In all cases? For you perhaps. Not for me. If you're going to be a b[I]tch, then don't debate with me.

Not really. He needed to apply a degree of strength to perhaps lead his turtle in the correct direction, but not necessarily anymore than the average ninja would. After all - his Flying Technique did 99% of the work.


I didnt state she got weaker. I said her Stanima droped with age, Like everyone esles would.She has to be around her 53-54 years of age. Remeber Oro could take bodies, so his stanima is up because of that. JPervy sag could your Narture chakra also besides his own. SO there is more stanima for him. But her not so much. She is no where near a 10 in stanaima

She healed hundreds of people at once with her base chakra. And she gave all of her Yin Seal chakra to Katsuyu to heal people from the aftermath of CST. Even then she could jump a huge distance and confront Pein. In Part I she also constantly throws attacks at Kabuto and Orochimaru while chasing them. She's out of breathe but is still able to keep up with Kabuto and throw more attacks after reaching the Sannin battlefield. After healing herself Orochimaru slashes her with his sword three times inflicting critical hits. She's still able to stand up and throw a punch able to send him hurdling backwards. And then after using Creation Rebirth which significantly weakens her, she's able to Summon Katsuyu, lift Gamabuntas sword and throw a powerful strike to Orochimarus jaw.

Her stamina is very high. Not sure whether its a 10. But, its at least very high.

I did say suggest in my post, did I not? Besides, you saying it would be illogical for him to have lifted the turtle was actually stated in the chapter itself. More implied really, by "I can't believe he's transporting the entire turtle!".

Transporting does not necessarily = lifting. He touched it so that the flying technique worked. Its size could've meant he had to constantly keep hold on it, as it may have been too heavy for it to fly around for elongated amounts of time. We know the technique wares off, eventually. He also may have been touching it to move it in the correct direction. Its a massive beast, following Onoki around whose tiny in comparison would be very difficult.

However ridiculous it may seem has nothing to do with it. So what if he could one-shot Tsunade and Sakura? He already could with his stone jutsu, his strength just confirms it. Taijutsu isn't his style, but when he was in the air he attacked Kabuto physically. He only refrains from it due to his bad back, if he didn't have such problems he'd probably be doing Taijutsu fighting just as much as Dust Style fighting.

Yes it does. Going by a ridiculous theory that doesn't seem to make a pick of sense when theres another one which has just as much proof and makes more sense seems foolish to me. Wut? How could he solo Tsunade or Sakura, let alone anyone with his stone clone jutsu? Let me put it this way, if Onoki had building buster strength - he wouldn't be using Cube jutsu and Dust Style. He'd be pulverising enemies with his fists.

There's no actual explanation for him carrying the turtle other than him improving his strength or him using his own strength. His hand was on the turtle, he was carrying the turtle, everyone was acting like he was carrying the turtle. "If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's a duck." It doesn't matter if it's illogical. It's not like jutsu are very logical to begin with. The fact that Danzo and Hiruzen could both fight well at the ages of 80 is itself hard to believe. And, if he'd used the flying jutsu on the turtle, he wouldn't need to have his hand on it. The turtle could fly itself to the base. If he was using the jutsu as he carried it, then its effect would be pointless. From what we've seen, it isn't a jutsu that makes someone have less weight, because otherwise the floating and movement in general would be a large problem. It's more of a jutsu that creates self-imposed flight. In that case, even if he effected the turtle while he had his hand on it, the jutsu wouldn't have done anything.

No, there is no explanation as to how he moves the turtle. But using the flying technique makes MUCH MUCH more sense than him suddenly pulling massive strength out of nowhere and moving it. No one was acting like he was carrying the turtle, they seemed surprised he was transporting it from point A to point B in the sky instead of doing it closer to land, or sea. Yeah, Hiruzen and Danzo could fight well despite their age - but yet, you don't see them with strength capable of lifting giant turtles. Onoki was never noted to have great strength either, he was noted for his Dust Style. I'm sorry, but you're making no sense.

Whatever. He was still able to push it back. You're using Sakura's PTS strength feat to say throwing someone back isn't much of a feat, but the fact that it's PTS Sakura doesn't actually make it a less impressive strength feat. That's like saying a drunk guy walking a tightrope makes walking a tightrope an easy thing.

PTS Sakuras strength was obviously very basic. If you can't see that, then I really don't know what to say. Her punches did crap all damage to Ino, who was able to take several of them and still fight on. PTS Ino too, was never exactly a ' tank ' . So like I said, Onoki knocking someone off a platform with a punch, is fairly basic.

I'm just going to stick with "I don't care if it doesn't make sense; He carried the turtle and that's that."

Really? Despite there being a much more logical explanation? This isn't like you.

Yori
02-03-2011, 06:57 AM
Konan - (With Prep)

Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10 -- One armed Madara speed blitz and choked her with ease
Durability: 7/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 10/10 -- Knew Madara Spcae/Time weakness very, very well. Also the plan she built to attempt to kill him.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 07:13 AM
Konan - (With Prep)

Movement Speed: 7/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 7/10 -- One armed Madara speed blitz and choked her with ease
Durability: 7/10
Stamina: 8/10
Strength: 6/10
Intelligence: 10/10 -- Knew Madara Spcae/Time weakness very, very well. Also the plan she built to attempt to kill him.

No way is her attacking speed 10. Not when Kakashis is 8. Lower it to about 8. Her paper is fast but not THAT fast.

Also, her intelligence is currently above The Sannins and Kakashis. She's clever enough I suppose, but nothing exceptional. Put her intelligence on a 7.

Sosuke
02-03-2011, 07:16 AM
Kakashi Hatake

Movement Speed: 8.5/10
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9.5/10- Only Shikimaru would have a 10.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 07:20 AM
Kakashi already has one made for him.

Yori
02-03-2011, 07:43 AM
No way is her attacking speed 10. Not when Kakashis is 8. Lower it to about 8. Her paper is fast but not THAT fast.

Also, her intelligence is currently above The Sannins and Kakashis. She's clever enough I suppose, but nothing exceptional. Put her intelligence on a 7.

This is with Prep Konan. Her Explosion was fast enough to catch half of Madara. Her intelligence is a ten because once again she has prep.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 07:52 AM
This is with Prep Konan. Her Explosion was fast enough to catch half of Madara. Her intelligence is a ten because once again she has prep.

Her Paper Ocean Technique is not particulary fast, It just has a massive radius. Madara couldn't escape it because of its sheer size. And the explosion which hit Madara only hit him because he did not know she had imbued her paper attacks with explosives. They weren't particulary faster than him, iirc.

Prep or no prep, discovering Madaras weakness and preparing billions of sheets of paper is not putting her higher than the Sannin and Kakashi on intelligence, lower it.

Sosuke
02-03-2011, 07:52 AM
Kakashi already has one made for him.

I know, I just thought my one was more accurate lol.

Sephiroth
02-03-2011, 07:53 AM
THen debate why yours is more accurate and the other one is wrong.

deidara330
02-03-2011, 10:22 AM
Really? Despite there being a much more logical explanation? This isn't like you.I don't come into the BG to have people tell me how ridiculous I'm being, so I won't respond to you at all until you at least attempt to see my point of view. Do you think it's fun for me to debate with someone who can't refrain from telling me eight times (I actually counted BTW) that I make no sense? I'll quote you for each time.
a ridiculous theory
doesn't seem to make a pick of sense
seems foolish to me
Wut?
makes MUCH MUCH more sense(This useless to support your arguement as well as implying my side makes no sense, something that I don't appreciate)
I'm sorry, but you're making no sense.I'm sorry, but a pre-appology doesn't make an insult any less insulting.
If you can't see that, then I really don't know what to say.
Really? Despite there being a much more logical explanation? This isn't like you.Now, right now I appologize for anything I've said to you that was anything like this. If it's not too much trouble for you, I'd like you to appologize as well, because if this is all I can expect from debating with you I simply won't.

Just to prove I'm not hypocritical, or at the very least not purposely hypocritical, I'll try and see things from your point of view. The turtle supports several massive animals and people and could only be flipped by the combination of a giant explosion and the pull from a large snake, which itself is meant to be a much stronger version of an already powerful snake. The idea that Onoki could lift such a turtle on strength alone, considering both his lack of notability in the field of Taijutsu and his bad hip, is seemingly ridiculous. He constantly refrains from moving because of his condition. While he lacks in strength-augmenting jutsu or techniques that would allow him to transport objects or living creatures, he has shown use of a jutsu which would allow heavier objects or people (err, Akatsuchi?) to transport themselves from one location to another.

Now I shall counter the points I have made by myself. The turtle does support many animals of what must surely be large weight, and was only flipped by powerful jutsu, emphasizing the weight of the turtle. But, this only further proves Onoki's feat's worth. Onoki does have a bad back, but he doesn't refrain too terribly often from physical effort. When first introduced, he insisted he carry his own luggage, and he physically attacked Kabuto when sent as reinforcement to the turtle island. Onoki may not be noted for his strength, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's weak, as when Mifune described him while picking the Allied Shinobi Forces leader (albeit under Danzo's control) he stated only that Onoki would be seen as weak due to his old age and mobility problems. Furthermore, the Levitation Technique is in fact a jutsu that allows heavier objects to be transported from one place to another, but its operative effect is self-transportation. Rather than making someone weightless, as then force would be ineffective, it allows someone to levitate at consistent height off of the ground using chakra. Using it on an inanimate object should, in theory, have no effect whatsoever, and using it on the turtle should have a similar outcome. If the turtle were flying itself, it would not have been stated that Onoki was transporting it and Onoki would not have had his hand on it. If the turtle was moving itself, Onoki would not have struggled under the effort it would require to direct the turtle, meaning he must have lifted it himself and must be carrying it himself. As the Levitation Technique likely has no weight-lowering effect, Onoki would still have to use his own strength to lift the turtle and then transport it.

As a counter-point, due to Onoki's small stature and build, it's illogical for Onoki to have the amount of muscle mass required to lift such a large turtle. As, by my own logic, all things in fictional works follow the laws of real life unless stated otherwise, Onoki can only be at either the maximum known strength someone of his size could be at in the real world, or his strength could only be at the level of strength of any ninja who doesn't use strength-augmenting jutsu. Due to the fact that no explanation exists to sufficiently explain the feat, including the Levitation Technique, it's merely an inconsistency, as neither the logic set in place by the Real World nor the Naruto world itself can explain it.

Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.

Do I make sense now, or do I need to type another long post?

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Can I have a summery of the post above?

deidara330
02-03-2011, 10:42 AM
Can I have a summery of the post above?I'll try, but I do suck at them.

LT said I was being ridiculous while countering the points I made to defend her own arguement. I didn't like that. I asked her to try seeing things from my point of view, and to prove my point tried to see things from hers. I gave several points to show how Onoki would not be able to lift the turtle, then countered each to show how the only explanation is that he did, then proceeded to say it was logically impossible by both real-world logic and Naruto logic for Onoki to have lifted the turtle. I then proceeded to state that, while this is true, it should be disregarded for debate on Onoki because even though it was an impossibility, it was presented as a feat of Onoki and realistically, if Onoki were to fight anyone, such a feat would apply in battle. It's not like if Onoki existed we could simply tell him, "Sorry, you can't do this, we haven't proven it yet." I then asked LT if I had now made sense or if I had to write another WoT.

This summary was likely thrice as long as it actually had to be. For an explanation, see "Wall of Text Syndrome" in my signature.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-03-2011, 10:44 AM
I actually read that post. =D

I gotcha now bro.

Ultimate combatant
02-03-2011, 11:19 AM
Someone should make Naruto Sage mode stats.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 11:53 AM
Just to prove I'm not hypocritical, or at the very least not purposely hypocritical, I'll try and see things from your point of view. The turtle supports several massive animals and people and could only be flipped by the combination of a giant explosion and the pull from a large snake, which itself is meant to be a much stronger version of an already powerful snake. The idea that Onoki could lift such a turtle on strength alone, considering both his lack of notability in the field of Taijutsu and his bad hip, is seemingly ridiculous. He constantly refrains from moving because of his condition. While he lacks in strength-augmenting jutsu or techniques that would allow him to transport objects or living creatures, he has shown use of a jutsu which would allow heavier objects or people (err, Akatsuchi?) to transport themselves from one location to another

This ^

If I come across as aggressive of whatever, then I'm sorry. But I'm not trying to be. I'm just surprised you , someone who is on a whole intelligent and clever when it comes to debates, would actually consider something as, like you said - ridiculous, as this.

Now I shall counter the points I have made by myself. The turtle does support many animals of what must surely be large weight, and was only flipped by powerful jutsu, emphasizing the weight of the turtle. But, this only further proves Onoki's feat's worth. Onoki does have a bad back, but he doesn't refrain too terribly often from physical effort. When first introduced, he insisted he carry his own luggage, and he physically attacked Kabuto when sent as reinforcement to the turtle island. Onoki may not be noted for his strength, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's weak, as when Mifune described him while picking the Allied Shinobi Forces leader (albeit under Danzo's control) he stated only that Onoki would be seen as weak due to his old age and mobility problems. Furthermore, the Levitation Technique is in fact a jutsu that allows heavier objects to be transported from one place to another, but its operative effect is self-transportation. Rather than making someone weightless, as then force would be ineffective, it allows someone to levitate at consistent height off of the ground using chakra. Using it on an inanimate object should, in theory, have no effect whatsoever, and using it on the turtle should have a similar outcome. If the turtle were flying itself, it would not have been stated that Onoki was transporting it and Onoki would not have had his hand on it. If the turtle was moving itself, Onoki would not have struggled under the effort it would require to direct the turtle, meaning he must have lifted it himself and must be carrying it himself. As the Levitation Technique likely has no weight-lowering effect, Onoki would still have to use his own strength to lift the turtle and then transport it

Onoki hurts his hip from carrying some basic luggage on his back ,iirc. And has to be carried to the Kage Summit. The fact he withstood an entire island on pure strength without snapping anything is a major major inconsistency. Therefore, it should be safe to assume. His levitation jutsu did 99% of the work. He apparently had to apply some sort of strength for unknown reasons, but as we can clearly see. He did not lift the whole thing with brute strength. Totally ridiculous. Also, when Onoki is referred to as being seen as weak - I believe its on a whole. [Ninjutsu etc. included] Not directly speaking about brute strength. Also, the turtle is not inanimate. Its a living being which can move. Again, Onoki could've been applying a degree of strength for unknown reasons to perhaps lead the turtle in right direction. But the Flight Technique means the user is capable of moving themself, it may not reduce any weight, that we know of - but an old man who struggles with luggage on his back - is not lifting an island hundreds of meters in the air and carrying it miles. We don't know why he kept his hand on the turtle. Perhaps because it wouldn't be able to fly for very long because of its weight is he had let go? Perhaps to lead it in the correct direction? I don't know. But as you said, its ridiculous to say he carried the thing himself with one arm. When he said his back was struggling, it could've been because he was holding his arm up for so long. Your arm does tend to hurt if you hold up for that long. After all - he did transport it miles. We can assume it was strength, or assume it was the levitation. But at the end of the day, theres no solid proof for either claim. My point is, its stupid to think he has that strength, and until its been properly proved he has such. I won't be agreeing.

Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.

Then we agree to disagree. Its faar too ridiculous for me to believe. And with no solid proof. I'm not assuming hes that kind of strength.

Yori
02-03-2011, 01:34 PM
So an old man with a very bad back, lifting an Island is no feat? Kind of a cheat really.

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 01:37 PM
Never fully proven. More likely to be his flying technique. See mass of posts for further details. Neither arguement has been fully proven in the manga.

But still, him using a flying technique makes more sense. Dont see how an old man like that who struggles with carrying luggage could carry an entire island with one hand. Its safe to assume he had to apply some form of strength as he was continually pushing his arm up.

Kazumi Saitama
02-03-2011, 02:28 PM
Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.

Thank you!

Frost ninja
02-03-2011, 03:02 PM
Someone should make Naruto Sage mode stats.

Not it :3
For obvious reasons <__<

Yori
02-03-2011, 03:20 PM
Naruto SM:

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9.5/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 5.5/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Someone give the stamina a number. I didn't know what to base it off of. During SM or how he is when SM goes off

Kuromaki
02-03-2011, 03:39 PM
At least give Bee a 6 in intelligence or something, he's not that stupid and he's at least as smart as his brother. He only appears that way because he spends much of his time writing raps, which is only when he doesn't take the opponent seriously.

Edit: Along with this, Sage Jiraiya showed some incredible stamina, speed, and attacking speed feats, so I think he should get some higher stats.

Edit edit: What makes Ino smarter than Karin?

Midnight789
02-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Naruto SM:

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9.5/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: ?/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Someone give the stamina a number. I didn't know what to base it off of. During SM or how he is when SM goes off

Will Since Sage Mode is only 5 minutes, i guess it does not deserve even a 5.

Kuromaki
02-03-2011, 03:47 PM
I would put it at 5.5 or 6 thanks to the limit.

Not sure if this one has been made but whatever:
Darui
Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10 (Casually stopped Sasuke with Water Wall)
Reaction Speed: 8/10 (See above)
Durability: 6/10
Stamina: 6/10 (I have no idea what these two are so I'll give him average)
Strength: 8/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10

Lady Tsunade
02-03-2011, 04:05 PM
At least give Bee a 6 in intelligence or something, he's not that stupid and he's at least as smart as his brother. He only appears that way because he spends much of his time writing raps, which is only when he doesn't take the opponent seriously.

Edit: Along with this, Sage Jiraiya showed some incredible stamina, speed, and attacking speed feats, so I think he should get some higher stats.

Edit edit: What makes Ino smarter than Karin?

She tricks Pre Sakura with her Hair Trap Jutsu.
She has considerable knowledge, to be able to learn and become profficient - with medical ninjutsu. She has knowledge on flowers also, because of her occupation. She's also able to help Shizune figure out Peins jutsu. She also has good book smarts, as she got the highest grades of her year in the academy.

I wouldn't say Ino is significantly smarter than Karin, but I think Ino might have a slight advantage.

Kuromaki
02-03-2011, 04:12 PM
She tricks Pre Sakura with her Hair Trap Jutsu.
She has considerable knowledge, to be able to learn and become profficient - with medical ninjutsu. She has knowledge on flowers also, because of her occupation. She's also able to help Shizune figure out Peins jutsu. She also has good book smarts, as she got the highest grades of her year in the academy.

I wouldn't say Ino is significantly smarter than Karin, but I think Ino might have a slight advantage.
Hair trap jutsu is clever but... ehh. Karin was able to figure out Danzo's jutsu and use that to help Sasuke.

Karin should have a lot of knowledge too considering the fact that she ran Orochimaru's prisons for a while.

NagatoGod_of_Pain
02-04-2011, 05:34 PM
This probably isn't necessary, but do you think a total should be added at the end? I know people can add the numbers up by themselves, but it can be helpful for a quick glance at the totals to see which similar characters are better.

Lady Tsunade
02-04-2011, 06:08 PM
Hair trap jutsu is clever but... ehh. Karin was able to figure out Danzo's jutsu and use that to help Sasuke.

Karin should have a lot of knowledge too considering the fact that she ran Orochimaru's prisons for a while.

She used her Minds Eye of Kagura though. It wasn't like she did it on her own. And she only figured out it wasn't a normal genjutsu or ninjutsu. She never really discovered what it did until Danzo explained it iirc. or was it Madara?

She should have a lot of knowledge on the structure of Orochimarus Prison. And on the Curse Mark jutsu. But thats about it. Karin also left her Village as [presumably] a Genin. Inos had more experience going on missions, fighting in the Chunin Exams twice etc. so I think her intelligence would at least be somewhat higher.

This probably isn't necessary, but do you think a total should be added at the end? I know people can add the numbers up by themselves, but it can be helpful for a quick glance at the totals to see which similar characters are better.

Mm. It wouldn't help us in debates tbh. If anything, it would just let us see what rough skill level everyone is on. Of course, we know that already - from feats. A bit pointless if you ask me.

The 1st Hokage
02-05-2011, 06:42 AM
I'm highly disappointed to see Itachi with a measely 8.5 as his speed. I'd put him at 15/10 for being GODtachi.

Shikamaru Nara
02-05-2011, 07:27 AM
That is precisely why he scored low and pretty much everyone agreed despite the fact that you're the only one who protested. :lol:

Yori
02-05-2011, 07:31 AM
I didn't agree on his speed.

Shikamaru Nara
02-05-2011, 07:32 AM
You gave a legit reason, though.

Kuromaki
02-05-2011, 09:59 AM
She used her Minds Eye of Kagura though. It wasn't like she did it on her own. And she only figured out it wasn't a normal genjutsu or ninjutsu. She never really discovered what it did until Danzo explained it iirc. or was it Madara?

She should have a lot of knowledge on the structure of Orochimarus Prison. And on the Curse Mark jutsu. But thats about it. Karin also left her Village as [presumably] a Genin. Inos had more experience going on missions, fighting in the Chunin Exams twice etc. so I think her intelligence would at least be somewhat higher.
Of course she's gonna use Kagura, it's her only technique and she has every right to use it to her advantage.

I believe she did figure it out, with maybe a tip from Madara, but even Maddy remarked on how useful she was. I don't think I've ever seen anything stellar from Ino except for the hair trap thing.
I'm highly disappointed to see Itachi with a measely 8.5 as his speed. I'd put him at 15/10 for being GODtachi.
I'd have him at 9, but lol.

Midnight789
02-07-2011, 02:22 PM
I'm highly disappointed to see Itachi with a measely 8.5 as his speed. I'd put him at 15/10 for being GODtachi.

making him a 10/10 in speed would put him in par with A, Might Guy, The Fourth and Killerbee.
We all know that his speed is not better than the people i mentioned. i think a 8.5 is prefect for him.