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Shikamaru Nara
01-28-2011, 05:16 AM
At the request of Inuyasha, the debate will commense at approximately 3:30 PM Eastern Time.

SM Naruto vs. Deidara
No restrictions
On the third hokage's mansion

GO! at 3:30...

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 02:29 PM
Before we begin, to ask openly so there is no confusion...
Is deidara in Edo mode?

Shikamaru Nara
01-28-2011, 02:59 PM
Not!!

Kunoichi
01-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Go Frosty!

Shikamaru Nara
01-28-2011, 05:48 PM
To make it fun, I'll start adding polls. Starting now.
EDIT: darn I forgot to add Seph...

Uchiha Raimaru
01-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Voted for Frost Ninja and Inuyashi because I have much faith in Frosty's skills. I'm anxious to see how this debate goes down.

Shikamaru Nara
01-28-2011, 06:11 PM
Guys try not to post until after, though you won't have much time until it's locked and judged.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 06:12 PM
CAn SM Naruto activate his Cloak mode etc?

Shikamaru Nara
01-28-2011, 06:13 PM
If feats say he can.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 08:30 PM
:D Wowza, well looks like I'm favorite to win...
To make this challenging for myself and entertaining for others, I'll take Deidara

Blind Uchiha
01-28-2011, 10:04 PM
I am inclined to say that SM Naruto takes this via speedblitz and or FRS, but I will post a whole bunch of extra information for the heck of it. :P

Speed

Sage Mode Naruto has been calculated to be supersonic due to his blitz of Asura path. He crossed a large portion of the crater created by Deva path's Chou Shinra Tensei in the process. He also showed the ability to keep up with the other paths without much difficulty. On the off chance that he runs out of sage chakra, Naruto has been shown to be transonic in base. He also managed to fight Deva path with Taijutsu in base for a short time as well.

Not to discount Deidara at all, but this is an area where he lacks. His fighting style relies on attacking from range - typically from the air. This isn't to say that he hasn't shown decent speed, because he has been shown to avoid a blitz from a bloodlusted kyuubi state Naruto. He also managed to avoid Team Gai and Kakashi long enough to create an explosive clone. However, these feats at best give Deidara sonic movement speed and reactions. These speeds pale in comparison to SM Naruto's movement and reaction speeds.

Jutsu

Naruto's jutsu may not be diverse, but what he lacks in diversity is easily made up in power and proficiency. The jutsu that will cause Deidara the most problems is Fuuton: Rasen-Shuriken. This jutsu is easily hypersonic due to it's feat of crossing the Konoha destruction crater in one panel. It also almost killed all of the paths of pain at that range. It's expansion and blast range are also difficult to avoid. The explosion range is extremely large causing some individuals to claim that it has mountain busting capability. Regardless, the range is massive. Deidara's lack of reaction feats that can even compare to this means that he will most likely get hit in the initial throw, not even considering the explosion or expansion. The range of this particular fight is even smaller than that of the Naruto vs Pain fight. This only adds to Deidara's difficulty. Even if Deidara manages to get on his bird, he will still likely be unable to dodge Fuuton: Rasen-Shuriken.

Rasengan is also a threat in a speedblitz situation. As already stated, Naruto should be able to blitz Deidara at start and hit him with a Rasengan. Deidara hasn't shown the kind of durability to tank a direct rasengan hit, and Deidara would have no time to create clay bird to avoid such an attack.

Shadow Clones are also valuable to help trap and attack Deidara. Naruto's use of clone feints almost caught Deidara unaware in their battle in the forest and could likely work in this fight.

Deidara's explosive clay is a truly unique and powerful jutsu, but it requires a decent amount of preparation for even the lowest grade attacks. As already stated, SM Naruto will not give Deidara the time to prepare a large attack such as C3 or C4, nor will he allow him to prep a clay bird.

Deidara may have a chance to prep C1, but SM Naruto would likely just tank them due to his high durability and healing abilities. Large quantities of C1 or C2 would be necessary to take down Naruto. The only jutsus that would equal a guaranteed kill would be C3 and C4. Both of which require massive preparation.

Stamina

Both fighters possess excellent stamina from their shown fights. Naruto's fight against Pain was long and exhausting ordeal, but Naruto came out on top with energy left to spare.

Deidara fought a long battle against Hebi Sasuke, and spammed many clay bombs during that fight. He then followed the bomb spam with C4 and C0.

Conclusion

Deidara lacks the speed necessary to defeat SM Naruto without preparation and will either be speedblitzed or hit with FRS.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 10:21 PM
I say SM Naruto will take this, just my blitzing Deidara. Sage Mode Naruto has fought on Par Taijutsu against Deva. Who is argueablly the fastest character So far in the series. Also, Since there are no Restrictions in this fight. Naruto can just turn into his, super sayain type self or tailed forum and speed blitz Deidara even more. Also In SM Naruto can use his Frog Kata and take him out also.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 10:26 PM
Blitzing?
I'll take that on. Please, give me Naruto chapter page and reference of Naruto's fastest movement speeds? Fighting on par with Deva only means he has fast fists and reflexes. If fast fists made for blitz, then Guy, who can ignite his underwater meaning its well over hypersonic++, would be invincible.

To those that wonder, in order to make sure this goes on longer than just opening statements I plan to make it what it should be... a debate.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 10:32 PM
Chapter 505 page 12-13, Naruto blitzes a running away kisame. And Also was compared to the speed of Minato

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 10:54 PM
Chapter 505 page 12-13, Naruto blitzes a running away kisame. And Also was compared to the speed of Minato

I suppose you can also provide me a page of sage naruto turning into this? When I read this fight it was base naruto. Mind you, this fight is between Sage mode and Deidara. Moving into Kyuubi Cloak or back into base means that "Sage mode" Naruto no longer exists in this fight and thus gives the victory to Deidara.

Restrictions or not, if this fight were "Naruto vs Deidara" it would be different. However, as it stands the term "sage mode" has been thrown in and thus, naruto must maintain said form for the fight, otherwise it becomes invalid as the fighting character would no longer exist.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 10:56 PM
It is the same as SM naruto turning into his 4 tailed forum. So it is safe to assume that he can change into that forum also.

Blind Uchiha
01-28-2011, 11:01 PM
Blitzing?
I'll take that on. Please, give me Naruto chapter page and reference of Naruto's fastest movement speeds? Fighting on par with Deva only means he has fast fists and reflexes. If fast fists made for blitz, then Guy, who can ignite his underwater meaning its well over hypersonic++, would be invincible.

To those that wonder, in order to make sure this goes on longer than just opening statements I plan to make it what it should be... a debate.

SM Naruto crossed a large portion of the Konoha destruction crater and intercepted Asura path with a Rasengan before he could reach Tsunade who was much closer to Tsunade. Deidara can't match that.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:04 PM
SM Naruto crossed a large portion of the Konoha destruction crater and intercepted Asura path with a Rasengan before he could reach Tsunade who was much closer to Tsunade. Deidara can't match that.

Looked like falling to me, meaning a rock in the same situation could manage the same feat. Unless your stating that a rock could blitz asura, please dont bring gravity speed in and call it a blitz.

If you can prove he was doing something other than falling, please bring references.

@seph
Turning into 4 tails means he is no longer in "sage mode" due to him being in tails mode. Unless you can prove that sage naruto is indeed on the inside (looked like base when they were going through the motions) then no, SM naruto has to remain SM naruto.

If your going to pitch he changes into something thats not, I'll take my win being that "Sage mode" no longer exists in the battle and thus is counted as a ring out of sorts.

Blind Uchiha
01-28-2011, 11:07 PM
Looked like falling to me, meaning a rock in the same situation could manage the same feat. Unless your stating that a rock could blitz asura, please dont bring gravity speed in and call it a blitz.

@seph
Turning into 4 tails means he is no longer in "sage mode" due to him being in tails mode. Unless you can prove that sage naruto is indeed on the inside (looked like base when they were going through the motions) then no, SM naruto has to remain SM naruto.

If your going to pitch he changes into something thats not, I'll take my win being that "Sage mode" no longer exists in the battle and thus is counted as a ring out of sorts.

Gravity speed? Naruto ran that distance. The only individual who fell was the ANBU who didn't reach Tsunade in time. This only gives more credence to Naruto's speed.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 11:09 PM
Looked like falling to me, meaning a rock in the same situation could manage the same feat. Unless your stating that a rock could blitz asura, please dont bring gravity speed in and call it a blitz.

If you can prove he was doing something other than falling, please bring references.

@seph
Turning into 4 tails means he is no longer in "sage mode" due to him being in tails mode. Unless you can prove that sage naruto is indeed on the inside (looked like base when they were going through the motions) then no, SM naruto has to remain SM naruto.

If your going to pitch he changes into something thats not, I'll take my win being that "Sage mode" no longer exists in the battle and thus is counted as a ring out of sorts.


Feats give naruto the chance to change into his cloaked forums in SM, like he did against Pain. I do believe it has been stated if feats say he can it can and will be used.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:10 PM
Gravity speed? Naruto ran that distance. The only individual who fell was the ANBU who didn't reach Tsunade in time. This only gives more credence to Naruto's speed.


Read edit please, I'd like some proof to back this assumption.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:13 PM
Feats give naruto the chance to change into his cloaked forums in SM, like he did against Pain. I do believe it has been stated if feats say he can it can and will be used.

Then I'll need proof of Sage Naruto still being existant.
If he has feats of going super sayian then I'd like them, I havent seen it happen for anyone but base.
Likewise, going from SM to base means that SM is no longer fighting.

If I can see fox mode using frog song, then I'll accept it.
Which means tails without losing SM first.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 11:27 PM
on chapter 437 page 14-15, Hinata gets killed and SM naruto changes to 4 tails

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:29 PM
Yes, now wheres your proof that Sage mode still exists on the battlefield?
Proof that his subconcious in fox mode is sage mode. All I see is base, which is, to my knowledge, NOT sage mode.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 11:31 PM
He as in sagemode. His eyes are the smae through the last few chapters. Even when he was in sage mode when preta path had ahold of him. The person said his self that if feats show it he cna turn into his cloaked mode. No mater if he isnt in SM

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:36 PM
He as in sagemode. His eyes are the smae through the last few chapters. Even when he was in sage mode when preta path had ahold of him. The person said his self that if feats show it he cna turn into his cloaked mode. No mater if he isnt in SM

Once again, I actually...

Better yet, heres a great one.
Proof he can go into base by choice, and proof he can go super sayian in SM by choice.
I need proof for either to say that he maybe able to go into some other form...

But as it stands in my view, Sage Mode Naruto is Sage Mode. If Base isnt in it, he isn't sage mode. If you can prove that fox is sage mode in subconcious, then I'll accept he can maybe go into tails.

Page numbers are necessary, otherwise I'll be counting the five minute mark.

Sorry if I seem dodgey about my stance on this, but I find the easiest way to debate is by first taking out your opponents best features. By doing this, my debate becomes a lot more solid.

Sephiroth
01-28-2011, 11:45 PM
like i stated before, naruto cnan change into his tailed forum in SM. So i can safetly assume he can turn into the other forums as well.

Frost ninja
01-28-2011, 11:55 PM
If there is no response about proofing his speed...

430-2 shows him at an elevated position
With no other indications of movement, we can see him landing on top of Asura on 430-16. The common guess is that someone who moved from higher elevations to lower ones and landed on top of a grounded opponent with his cloak pointing upwards (indicating either a downwards movement or just a powerful blast). Moreso is Asura's position beforehand in 430-15. He is above the ground itself and floating, meaning to go straight on top of him would be impossible without an angle of some sort. Naruto looks like a solid up-down from the page. Thus one can conclude, unless proved otherwise, that moving from higher point A to lower point B was a matter of falling. This means he was moving at gravity speed, and a rock in the same position could have done the same speeds.

Gravity speed does not constitute a blitz, especially since they are on base ground from eachother in this fight.

As for the cloaking, SM naruto has no provided feats of going into either base or tails by choice. The only time its seen is in a time of extreme emotional distraught, which may explain a loss of balance in his chakras and an allowance of the fox to emerge. This fight, bloodlusted by default and the default rules stating emotional ties aren't involved between characters, is a fight to the death in which fox mode may be brought out in crisis, but unless proved otherwise, it cannot be utilized.

As of the default rules, Naruto is permitted his extra clones to process the sage chakras, but he has to summon them and deactivate them as is seen in 433 2-7.
Outside of this situation he has to be still, something he cannot aford to manage against deidara.

From this I can conclude that he has, in fact, next to no viable speed feats and cannot use base, tails, cloak, or kyuubi white-cloak by choice...


Moving onto jutsus, Deidara has prev knowledge of Naruto's shadow clones and he wouldn't hesitate to attack any extras, I'm sure. Mind you, to use any of his jutsu he requires clones. From Rasengan to FRS, he requires two other hands in order to mold the chakras. With Dei's knowledge, these clones become useless as, since I have been looking into, he (sage mode naruto) has next to no speed feats that are viable in this fight. Rasengan speedblitz isn't happening since Deidara has a minimum of transonic and maximized at supersonic reaction speed as is seen in his fight with sasuke. 357-8 shows him noting sasuke's speed and realizing his approach from across a large field (to say the least, the size of the hokage's mansion) in, as it looks, one panel. He then, in 357-9, proceeds to avoid it from what looks to be point blank. This sword strike was so fast that the afterimage of the strike continues on in the second panel long through Tobi. This shows a minimum of transonic, and by scaling a possibility of supersonic.

Now lets get into prep time necessary...
357-10 and 11, looks like not even one panel of chewing and he is able to make a pile that large of C1.
357-15. Looks like it takes him a whole whopping time of a clap to make the C2 dragon.

Without Naruto's speed feats, the C1 will likely stop the clones and C2 is out in next to no time. He takes air, and from here proceeds to rain more clay down. The blast from the dragon spits looked to easily be enough to cover the proximity of the hokage's rooftop. 358-8 is a good look at the blast proximity for a spit dragon-slim. A larger one has a much larger radius. Even with ample reactions, since he cannot leave the rooftop and between the clay and the short time between spams, I dont see him having enough time to land a hit before Dei goes into the air. From there, its a good game. Even if naruto can manage to create a rasen-shuriken, I would like proof that he can throw it upwards into the air. Reason being is that Kakashi's lightning hounds can cover long distances on ground, but in the air theres a different story.

Next is his aim. And the speed issues of FRS. It covered the entire reach at hypersonic speeds, yet all but animal path reacted to it when it was very close. Human even had time to throw animal out of the way. I'd like you to ensure your cals are correct because, if so, all of the paths barring animal have hypersonic reactions and human can move his body at hypersonic speeds as well, as the distance versus time of reaction states this is the case if what you say is true. Supersonic speed, perhaps. Hypersonic is a large stretch.

Stamina I won't argue, but the ability to make a 10km bomb after all of the clay spam and the like shows more than enough for this fight.

Frost ninja
01-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Going to bed now, I'll be back tomorrow to see what you've brought for me.

Shikamaru Nara
01-29-2011, 06:12 AM
Just letting the judges know that the rule that you have to pick a winner and make a massive post why has been lifted so don't take Frosty out because of that.

Blind Uchiha
01-29-2011, 06:33 AM
Looked like falling to me, meaning a rock in the same situation could manage the same feat. Unless your stating that a rock could blitz asura, please dont bring gravity speed in and call it a blitz.

If you can prove he was doing something other than falling, please bring references.



Chap 430 15-16

Asura was using his rocket boots to fly horizontally thus when the running Naruto slammed him to the ground from that position - it gave the appearance that Naruto was falling. Additionally, the panels leading up to the blitz showed horizontal blurs implying horizontal not vertical motion.

Not only that, Naruto was in no real position to fall. He wasn't on the crater side like the ANBU. It is a heavy stretch at best to state that Naruto did not run that distance.

Frost ninja
01-29-2011, 12:37 PM
Chap 430 15-16

Asura was using his rocket boots to fly horizontally thus when the running Naruto slammed him to the ground from that position - it gave the appearance that Naruto was falling. Additionally, the panels leading up to the blitz showed horizontal blurs implying horizontal not vertical motion.

Not only that, Naruto was in no real position to fall. He wasn't on the crater side like the ANBU. It is a heavy stretch at best to state that Naruto did not run that distance.

I see nothing that indicates running or him moving from his position. And jumping to him from that distance would allow him to reach Asura.

The biggest thing is that thees no evidence of him running, and from his elevated position he had to come from above. Especially considering asura's position and his when landing occured. Without an angle, one cannot say that he ran said distance when theres no evidence of him ever leaving the top of the toad's head in that time.

431-1 shows that the true distance after Asura was crushed wasn't that great, being that from across konoha crater the frogs look to retain the same size. I'm guessing the background became disproportianate.

430-14 shows animal path coming from above, summoning, and them all falling down into the crater and landing. These effects are so similar to the ones exibited by SM naruto upon landing that its safe to assume that naruto did indeed come from above by physical evidence as well.

Blind Uchiha
01-29-2011, 04:54 PM
I see nothing that indicates running or him moving from his position. And jumping to him from that distance would allow him to reach Asura.

The biggest thing is that thees no evidence of him running, and from his elevated position he had to come from above. Especially considering asura's position and his when landing occured. Without an angle, one cannot say that he ran said distance when theres no evidence of him ever leaving the top of the toad's head in that time.

431-1 shows that the true distance after Asura was crushed wasn't that great, being that from across konoha crater the frogs look to retain the same size. I'm guessing the background became disproportianate.

430-14 shows animal path coming from above, summoning, and them all falling down into the crater and landing. These effects are so similar to the ones exibited by SM naruto upon landing that its safe to assume that naruto did indeed come from above by physical evidence as well.

Show me where any other ninja jumped that distance or anywhere close? It hasn't happened. The blurs used are evidence. Vertical blurs indicate vertical movement, horizontal blurs indicate horizontal movement.

Now you are assuming the art is incorrect to support your assertions. That is a cop out.

Additionally, since when has true physics come into play in Naruto? We are talking about supersonic ninjas for heaven's sake. That very fact breaks physics. Yet you casually assume that the rules of the acceleration of gravity function perfectly in Naruto.

Once again, Asura was knocked down the way he was because he was traveling closely to the ground in a horizontal path.

Frost ninja
01-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Show me where any other ninja jumped that distance or anywhere close? It hasn't happened. The blurs used are evidence. Vertical blurs indicate vertical movement, horizontal blurs indicate horizontal movement.

However theres no proof of this being the case. For all we know it could have simply been dramatic backgrounds. Also Guy Sensei, in his chase of kisame, easily covered that distance to the point as to where I can argue he did so twice over before using the turtle to jump again

Now you are assuming the art is incorrect to support your assertions. That is a cop out.

Its a suggestion. I'm not saying its a sure thing, just a possibility.

Additionally, since when has true physics come into play in Naruto? We are talking about supersonic ninjas for heaven's sake. That very fact breaks physics. Yet you casually assume that the rules of the acceleration of gravity function perfectly in Naruto.

Can you prove they don't? Moving supersonic is beyond us as humans, but its not beyond our comprehension. FTL I can argue thats physics breaking, but supersonics are not. Yes, if something moves supersonic then it still has to obey the laws of physics, unless proven otherwise. As they say, manga is depicted of real life to its core. Mountians are mountians, and physics are physics.

Once again, Asura was knocked down the way he was because he was traveling closely to the ground in a horizontal path.

It is not shown in frame of him running, all we see is him landing. As I said, the common logic of higher to lower states he is falling, and until you can provide concrete proof that he did something other than fall, then a body moving from a higher point of elevation to a lower one without the use of a vehicle of sorts is stated to have fallen.

in red

Shikamaru Nara
01-29-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm going to give you an extended time because this debate is awesome.

Frost ninja
01-29-2011, 08:21 PM
Good. I'm not done with them yet, and by the time I'm done if they don't give me more evidence I'm going to ensure Sage Mode Naruto leaves this battle with no feats to his name.

Evidence speaks everything in debates.

As I stand, may knowledge be my blade... if so, I cannot be stopped...
Let logic be my armor... if so, I cannot be hurt...
Let evidence be my soul... if so, I cannot be broken.

Shikamaru Nara
01-30-2011, 12:30 PM
Alright, time's up. Somebody has to judge this so we can move on to Firsties' fight.

Frost ninja
01-30-2011, 12:31 PM
xD I probably lost, but wowza. Kinda scared them away I guess. Sorry, I wanted to keep this one going

Blind Uchiha
01-30-2011, 12:34 PM
I am busy, but trust me I am anything but scared.

Frost ninja
01-30-2011, 12:36 PM
You should be. I haven't seen any proof I can't refute yet.
I was almost about to start debating with myself, as I am always a good challenge xD

/sarcasm

Blind Uchiha
01-30-2011, 01:27 PM
However theres no proof of this being the case. For all we know it could have simply been dramatic backgrounds. Also Guy Sensei, in his chase of kisame, easily covered that distance to the point as to where I can argue he did so twice over before using the turtle to jump again

Alright, I concede that Gai performed a similar feat. I am sorry, but your statement about them being dramatic backgrounds doesn't counter my statement at all. The blurs were drawn specifically and are used the way I mentioned.


Its a suggestion. I'm not saying its a sure thing, just a possibility.

You go by what the author has drawn unless there is a major inconsistency. There isn't in this case.

Can you prove they don't? Moving supersonic is beyond us as humans, but its not beyond our comprehension. FTL I can argue thats physics breaking, but supersonics are not. Yes, if something moves supersonic then it still has to obey the laws of physics, unless proven otherwise. As they say, manga is depicted of real life to its core. Mountians are mountians, and physics are physics.

As who says? I want proof of this statement and who said it. Are there always sonic booms when objects are supposedly supersonic? As for gravity, going by panels throughout the series will reveal that the falling rates are anything but consistent. Your mention of Animal path summoning and falling comes to mind. Hence, your basic assumption of speeds are incorrect.


It is not shown in frame of him running, all we see is him landing. As I said, the common logic of higher to lower states he is falling, and until you can provide concrete proof that he did something other than fall, then a body moving from a higher point of elevation to a lower one without the use of a vehicle of sorts is stated to have fallen.

Once again, vertical blurs. By your supposed logic, yet the references and proof I gave disagrees. You are assuming a jump with no evidence at all, while I have already provided mine. Unless you can show in the manga that he jumped, I will continue with my claim.

Frost ninja
01-30-2011, 02:43 PM
Alright, I concede that Gai performed a similar feat. I am sorry, but your statement about them being dramatic backgrounds doesn't counter my statement at all. The blurs were drawn specifically and are used the way I mentioned.

But theres no evidence of this being the case. Blurs were made when asura was coming, they were outlining his arm and the like. You can see where the movement is taking place, and thus this is an indication of him being confirmed to be moving. However, in naruto's case, all we can see is his face and blurs all across the background, neither of which confirm movement. Unless you can show me a frame of him running or any evidence of him being off of the toad's head before landing, then its impossible to confirm that he was running at all. Backgrounds don't automatically mean movement, otherwise an all-black background means movement thats FTL being they are moving faster than light can reach.



You go by what the author has drawn unless there is a major inconsistency. There isn't in this case.

Then where does he draw naruto running?

As who says? I want proof of this statement and who said it. Are there always sonic booms when objects are supposedly supersonic? As for gravity, going by panels throughout the series will reveal that the falling rates are anything but consistent. Your mention of Animal path summoning and falling comes to mind. Hence, your basic assumption of speeds are incorrect.


http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85715&highlight=ichigo%27s+mountian+busting+feat&page=2

Deidara confirms that real-world applications are true into manga terms.
Hence mountians in bleach = IRL mountians by standards.
Thus, physics in naruto should, by the same note, also exist.
Unless your willing to find a way to disprove gravity?

Once again, vertical blurs. By your supposed logic, yet the references and proof I gave disagrees. You are assuming a jump with no evidence at all, while I have already provided mine. Unless you can show in the manga that he jumped, I will continue with my claim.

You have no proof of running aside from dramatic backgrounds that exist all throughout naruto without movement being used. The jump is basic logic of here to there. My proof of him jumping is his landing. Straight vertical, from a higher elevation. Mine has proofs of gravity and positioning, both of which beat out your claim.

in red

Shikamaru Nara
01-30-2011, 02:47 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/2u6n295.jpg

I thought I said this was done. xD

Frost ninja
01-30-2011, 02:49 PM
not yet, I have something else.
430-15.
Your evidence is the background and blurs...
However, what about the next frame where tsunade is talking? Theres blurs there too. Are you saying she is headbutting or something? She doesn;t appear to move in between the frames. Thus we can conclude these blurs are for the sake of dramatics.

Blind Uchiha
01-30-2011, 02:58 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/2u6n295.jpg

I thought I said this was done. xD

If it is over, I won't counter, but I ask that only what was posted up until that point be accepted in the judging.

Shikamaru Nara
01-30-2011, 03:00 PM
Whatever. Until somebody judges it, I will allow you guys to continue

Frost ninja
01-30-2011, 03:00 PM
Good, I still got more fight in me
Also I think the reason they havent is because they wanna see some bloodshed in here. xD

J-Sun Tasogare
01-30-2011, 03:27 PM
I'm not judging this on account of me completely agreeing with one side's points and attitude and completely disagreeing with the other side's. I also judged one already aswell :lol:

Blind Uchiha
01-30-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm not judging this on account of me completely agreeing with one side's points and attitude and completely disagreeing with the other side's. I also judged one already aswell :lol:

Good, because I am not finished with her yet. >.>

EDIT:



But theres no evidence of this being the case. Blurs were made when asura was coming, they were outlining his arm and the like. You can see where the movement is taking place, and thus this is an indication of him being confirmed to be moving. However, in naruto's case, all we can see is his face and blurs all across the background, neither of which confirm movement. Unless you can show me a frame of him running or any evidence of him being off of the toad's head before landing, then its impossible to confirm that he was running at all. Backgrounds don't automatically mean movement, otherwise an all-black background means movement thats FTL being they are moving faster than light can reach.


Alright, Tsunade looked to the side and not up when Naruto was moving in. Hence, it can be safely assumed that he was running and not falling. Additionally I am going to bring time into this. If you are going to preach that he simply fell than how the hell did that ANBU not make it to Asura before Naruto? We all know Naruto was falling at an acceleration of 9.81 feet per second which would easily allow the ANBU to get there before him, yet Naruto beat him there easily.

Then where does he draw naruto running?


http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthre...ng+feat&page=2 (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85715&highlight=ichigo%27s+mountian+busting+feat&page=2)

Deidara confirms that real-world applications are true into manga terms.
Hence mountians in bleach = IRL mountians by standards.
Thus, physics in naruto should, by the same note, also exist.
Unless your willing to find a way to disprove gravity?

I don't need to disprove gravity only manga representations of it, which I have done above. Additionally, your logic that rules of physics apply because of an argument about mountains in Bleach is faulty. Mountains do not directly link to Physics, and I have no idea how you came up with the idea that one can be the foundation of the other. This is also based around your debating skill, not the skill of D330.

You have no proof of running aside from dramatic backgrounds that exist all throughout naruto without movement being used. The jump is basic logic of here to there. My proof of him jumping is his landing. Straight vertical, from a higher elevation. Mine has proofs of gravity and positioning, both of which beat out your claim.

Read above information.

Inuyasha
01-31-2011, 12:53 PM
Darn! I wasnt able to get on :???:

Even tho the polls are done and this is over i'd like to add :lol:

But anyways in terms of speed on ground yes SM blitzes

But C4 radius creates distance also his microscopic bombs are hard to get around

and if Deidara is on a bird he has a great advantage in the skies

Shikamaru Nara
01-31-2011, 01:18 PM
Pat, Yori, or LT need to judge this now.

Frost ninja
01-31-2011, 03:54 PM
Good, because I am not finished with her yet. >.>

EDIT:





Alright, Tsunade looked to the side and not up when Naruto was moving in. Hence, it can be safely assumed that he was running and not falling. Additionally I am going to bring time into this. If you are going to preach that he simply fell than how the hell did that ANBU not make it to Asura before Naruto? We all know Naruto was falling at an acceleration of 9.81 feet per second which would easily allow the ANBU to get there before him, yet Naruto beat him there easily.

This is where the extra /s comes in.
Its 9.81 m/s/s. Every second he falls, he gains 9.81m/s onto his existant amount. From his height, its simple math to calculate him moving at near supersonics downwards. Also her looking looks more like a reflex, such as also throwing up her arms. Its a usual reaction when defending ones self, and turning away rather than looking up is the body's attempt to cover the vital parts:

The head, neck, and face.

I don't need to disprove gravity only manga representations of it, which I have done above. Additionally, your logic that rules of physics apply because of an argument about mountains in Bleach is faulty. Mountains do not directly link to Physics, and I have no idea how you came up with the idea that one can be the foundation of the other. This is also based around your debating skill, not the skill of D330.

True, my point was that true world standards in example, the size of a mountian... They carry over to manga. Likewise, the ideals of physics also carry over. You asked who said a statement so I presented you with it.

Now then, if you cannot prove gravity functions differently in naruto, or rather any of the physics laws such as things like acceleration and momentum, then your argument that falling speeds are inconsistant is debunked. Gravity speed is gravity speed.

Read above information.

ditto

in red.

J-Sun Tasogare
01-31-2011, 05:49 PM
Alright next time Frost posts her counter the match is over and hopefully one of the other judges can judge it.

Frost ninja
01-31-2011, 07:11 PM
lol I'll need something to counter then. So far I have seen no evidence that is full enough to prove any speed feats whatsoever from my opposition.

This means, in the eyes of the battlegrounds, SMN might as well be immobile.
Likewise theres no evidence of him being able to change forms in and out by choice, which means he can't just pick n choose to go into tails, base, or cloak. With emotional ties erased, theres no crux point in where naruto would have the irrationality to go tails, not until it is too late that is.

Above that theres reaction feats in which Dei has a minimum of transonic and a max of supersonic from his evasion of sasuke's attacks. Mix with the short area of the fight arena and the size of most explosions, its questionable if Sage Mode can even survive it. I also required duribility feats, to which I have also seen little to no proof of when he is in sage form.

If Dei gets airborn on bird or C2, its a gg from there. Prev knowledge lets him take out clones as soon as they pop, and with a lack of reactions one can argue they won't be able to avoid it. Variety also adds in, meaning he can spam ground and air C1 while chewing a bird. With the lack of speed feats, Naruto won't get to him in time.

Sad to say, but from my opponents evidence I can assume only this: Sage Mode Naruto has no viable feats presented in this fight that would warrant a blitz or even the slightest bit of fight.

From the arguments, I can say Dei wins with unreasonable ease. SMN, in the eyes of the BG from the evidence given here, has paper bones, might as well be immobile, and has the reaction speeds of a turnip in a dishwasher.

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 05:55 AM
god guys write more why don't you?

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 05:56 AM
Just your luck that you were online at the time, because honestly, I was going to leave you alone, but it has to be judged now.

Sorry Pat. 3:

But on the other hand, Pat.......P:

Space Cowboy Sasori
02-01-2011, 06:14 AM
Frost Ninja


Brought in incredible debating skills.
Brought in chapter references
Basically refuted everything that the other two said
Managed to defend Deidara very well (unfortunately)
Brought out feats I didn't even know
Took the harder character to debate with

Blind/Jeremy


I like they're old usernames better but that doesn't really pertain to anything so...
Brought in chapter references
Very good debating skills
Tried to take the easy way out with the 'blitz' argument but got refuted.
Brought out some good solid feats, some I didn't understand but some were good.

Winner:


Frost Ninja

Reason:


I feel she really stepped up to the plate when she needed too, basically refuting a lotta things the other two said. She never gave up even though it was two on one. She also had to defend the lesser character with is even harder, and she did it in fabulous fashion.


Good Job to all three of our contestants in this debate, and come back if we have another.

Shikamaru Nara
02-01-2011, 06:18 AM
1. lol at your deleted post. xD
2. Nice job Blind/Jeremy, and congrats Frost. Frostymaru Nara's ftw!

Frost ninja
02-01-2011, 07:45 AM
Mmmmmmmmm...... Pat P: