View Full Version : Debate Contest Match 1: Lax and DL Vs. Tyrell and Uchiha Raimaru
01-22-2011, 07:33 AM
Danzo vs Killer Bee
Restrictions: Arm unsealed, Bee can only go up to 7 Tails V1 and can only stay in it for a limited time. Shisui eye can only be used for reaction speed.
Location: Hyperbolic Time Chamber
Range: Default Range
State of Mind: In Character
You have 48 hours to post your first reply. Anything else is fair game. If only one teams posts, then that team wins by default. If both teams post, judges will be able to judge the match and determine the winner.
01-22-2011, 08:49 AM
Okay, just make sure you run your debate by DL.
01-23-2011, 12:14 AM
Been busy but I will post my reply to this battle. Killer Bee takes this all day. Several reasons durability, speed, power, and reaction. Durability he tanked a full powered chidori with his body and wasn't winded. This happened with his base no tailed cloak. ch 412 pg 14- 16. Also a speed feat as you can see in his base before jugo hit he had already made it way to the otherside of that mountain. Power he drop jugo casually without moving from the spot he was standing. ch 410 pg 19 Okay lets get into reaction he reacted to Sasuke attacks without trying. ch 411 pg 10-13
Now for the reason I mentioned said feats. Durability was mentioned because Danzo has no attack really powerful enough to hurt Killer Bee. Speed was mentioned to show how fast Killer Bee is compared to Danzo. He is pretty much a few levels faster. Power demonstrates he can dominate Danzo completely and overwhelm him. Reaction is extremely important. Considering Sasuke was on equal terms with Danzo who was using Izanagi to teleport. Bee would completely dominate Danzo. If you notice these are feats without Killer Bee's cloaked form. It is without a doubt I say that Bee dominates. My conclusion the fight will Bee a long and drawn out fight due to Izanagi. But in the end Bee will win. Forgot to mention massive chakra reserve.
Fun fact the shisui eye or any other sharigan jutsu is useless against Bee. Due to him having complete control of the Hachibi. So putting that in the restrictions wasn't needed.
01-23-2011, 06:16 AM
Okay next team has twenty four hours left.
Btw I would expect longer posts next time but I did like your page references and all.
01-23-2011, 07:20 AM
My name is Phoenix Wright, and I disagree with interfering in this thread.
Though I would like to point out a double post committed by Mr.Narahttp://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png
01-23-2011, 07:23 AM
Nobody's perfect. ;~;
I'd prefer if you left the thread, though. xD
01-23-2011, 08:49 AM
Okay next team has twenty four hours left.
Btw I would expect longer posts next time but I did like your page references and all.
You don't need a wall of text to get your message across. It would be redundant considering the fighters in this page have a set amount of feats.
01-23-2011, 12:08 PM
Before I post, something for Shikamaru...
We're being judged solely on the quality of the debate, and not necessarily the side we choose, right? What I'm getting at it is, if I agree that KB wins here, I still have the possibility of winning because my debate is better, right?
Also, does Tyrell have to post here, too? I'm not entirely sure how active he is now...
01-23-2011, 01:17 PM
Yes, and yes. You can still win even if he doesn't post.
01-23-2011, 02:47 PM
This match would most likely end with Bee winning, with mild to much difficulty.
At first glance, my initial thought was that Danzo, who kept up with a bloodlusted Sasuke and very nearly won, would stomp Killer Bee. As I began my research, and reread the Bee vs. Taka fight, as well as the Danzo vs. Sasuke fight, I realized that the match was a lot closer than it may seem.
Bee fought against Taka and held his own very well, easily keeping up with and defeating the members of Taka in base form (Chapter 412, Page 13). As they got more serious, Bee went into V1 and was still very much in control of the battle, even to the point where Sasuke nearly died two times and was only saved by Taka and that was at the cost of most of Karin's chakra, rendering her nearly useless, and Juugo's adult form, which made him nearly useless as well. (Chapter 412, Pages 1-6 and Chapter 413 Pages 10-14)
However, there's the argument that Danzo, while he may have fought only Sasuke, fought him in a truly bloodlusted state, and also didn't have the immunity to genjutsu AND had to contend with Susano'o on top of that. To that argument, I say that having to fight all four members of Taka is fairly comparable to the bloodlusted Sasuke that Danzo fought.
So let me break the fighters abilities down:
Genjutsu: Bee has shown no feats of using Genjutsu but can arguably break out of any genjutsu thanks to the mutual bond with the Hachibi. (Chapter 413, Pages 9-10 and 14)
Danzo has shown no feats of using genjutsu either, beyond Shisui's mind control, which is more subtle, and seems to work slightly differently, than your usual genjutsu. Even if it wasn't restricted in the OP, though, Bee would be able to break out of that, too, thanks to the Hachibi. Danzo also has a few feats of breaking out of Sasuke's genjutsu, but they won't help him at all here, since Bee doesn't use Genjutsu.
Taijutsu: Bee in base easily kept up with all the members of Taka, even to the point of dealing damage to all of them. His reaction speed is incredible, even managing to react to react to and counter Sasuke's attack by stabbing with all of his swords except one, and that was only by choice that he didn't use the last one. He can also channel Lightning Element through his swords, making them that much more deadly (Chapter 411, Page 20). He also managed to create a clone and get away from Taka without anyone noticing until the clone dissipated (Chapter 412, Pages 15 and 16).
Danzo's Taijutsu feats of note are reacting to Sasuke dodging his Wind Release: Shinkuuha and grabbing him by the neck (Chapter 477, Pages 12-13), kicking Karin off a platform-type thing (Chapter 478, Page 4), reacting to Susano'o's arrow by using Wood Release (Chapter 478, Pages 9-10), and multiple reactions with Izanagi (Chapter 478, Pages 12-14, Chapter 479, Page 2). Ignoring Izanagi which I'll cover later) Bee easily has the upper hand here.
Ninjutsu: Bee's Ninjutsu mainly consists of channeling Raiton through his swords and transforming into the Hachibi. Basically, augmenting his physical prowess.
Danzo's Ninjutsu feats consist of multiple different Fuuton jutsu (Chapter 477, Page 8, Chapter 479, Page 3) including lengthening the blade of a kunai, or presumably, anything that has a blade (Chapter 479, Page 15), as well as a sealing jutsu that can stop the target from moving (Chapter 478, Page 3). He can also summon a Baku that can create a vacuum to suck up a large area (Chapter 479, Pages 6-7) and can use the vacuum to augment his Fuuton jutsus (Chapter 479, Page 8). Given that Fuuton > Raiton, and taking ONLY Ninjutsu into consideration at this point, Danzo has the upper hand in this area.
Now that the feats are all stated, I'll get into the real "meat" of my argument.
Using the OP's statement that the characters are in-character, we can assume that Bee won't transform into V1 unless he's pushed, and that Danzo won't use Shisui's eye unless he's pushed as well, simply because since he's not an Uchiha, using Shisui's Sharingan would take up far too much chakra to use while at the same time using Izanagi.
So at the beginning of the battle, Bee draws his swords, channels Raiton through them, and attacks. Danzou, seeing the Raiton, would likely counter with a Fuuton. Given Bee's speed, he would be able to dodge most, if not all of Danzo's Fuuton and be able to get to him.
This would be the time that Danzo uses Izanagi. He wouldn't save it for when he REALLY needs it as shown in Chapter 476, Page 18 when he used it near the beginning of the battle and Chapter 477, Pages 1-5, when he used it as fodder so that he could discern Susano'o's power, even though he could probably have dodged Susano'o. This would be his downfall.
Bee would easily be able to keep dodging Fuuton jutsus and getting in close to Danzo, where he would then use Izanagi to escape harm. Danzo's use of Wood Release is basically a non-factor considering he can't really control it very well, and it takes a lot out of him. It may be good for one use be it defensive or offensive, but that's about it, and it wouldn't change much about the fight.
Danzo's greatest threat to Bee lies in his summoning, but that's when Bee would transform into V1. Since the Baku's only feats are in its suction, it's safe to assume Bee could take it out with little difficulty.
Once Izanagi is all used up, Danzo would revert to using Shisui's eye. Due to the OP, Danzo can use Shisui's eye only for reaction speed, but by the time he decided to use that, Danzo would be weak from the extended use of Izanagi, as well as a possible use of Wood Release. He could dodge Bee for a while, but eventually Bee would simply outlast him, even if he had stopped using V1 (due to the OP's restriction that V1 is a limited-time use).
Danzo's final piece of resistance would be in his Reverse Four-Symbols Seal (Chapter 481, Page 11) it's formidable, and could possibly cause a draw, but there are two weaknesses to this:
An in-character Danzo may not use this technique. He only used it against Sasuke and then only to protect the Leaf Village. In this case, the Leaf Village is a non-factor and Danzo may not realize the gravity of the situation until it's too late.
Before the technique actually happens, the ink seal on Danzo's body does this whole...exploding thing (Chapter 481, Page 11). That would make the Hachibi tell Bee to run even if Bee didn't in the first place. Even if Bee didn't recognize it as a threat, the Hachibi would. In any case, Bee has ample time to get out of the way of the jutsu.
This gives the win to Bee.
01-23-2011, 10:23 PM
So curious about this. Considering both teams chose the same character. I can't destroy his comments otherwise I will be contradicting myself. What is the verdict?
01-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Look for holes next time.
Get a judge on this?
01-24-2011, 05:35 PM
If you guys can wait till tomorrow.
01-24-2011, 10:23 PM
Next time each team should have a designated character. I could have argued either character.
01-25-2011, 04:31 AM
That would be unfair to the team that gets the character that they can't debate for. I think it's fine as it is. If we're being judged on our debating ability, we should be allowed to pick the character we can debate the best for.
01-25-2011, 01:15 PM
Today I indefinitely need judge.
01-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Oh crap I'm in this contest aren't I xD
I was just about to say "I'd judge it" but realized I was in it http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
But... I would have had to sign up as a judge anyway so even if I did join http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/lmao.gif
01-25-2011, 03:19 PM
I got this
Devil's Lawyer and Laxeres:
Your debate was short, and had very little information on why Killer Bee would win. Every point you made was very short with little explanation. You also made this seem like a complete and utter stomp fight, and made it seem like Danzo would stand there and die. Your argument was also loose and sloppy.
Your debate was even shorter than Devil's Lawyer. It had fewer information and gave no sources, and did you even read the restrictions? Your argument included stuff that was restricted from the fight, which is unnecessary. Your points were badly supported and some were even wrong such as Wind>Lightning.
Uchiha Raimaru and tyrell4life.
Your debate was a nice lengthy one that covered very many points and put almost everything into consideration. You made the battle seem close which it is and gave credit to Danzo. You took the restrictions into account and gave feats for both of the opponents that would be used in the fight. And even if you missed one major point, you still elaborated on more points than both of your opponents, and did it without a partner.
Also note Tyrell is gone for good, he can no longer post at all, so he was a nonfactor.
I'm giving the win to Uchiha Raimaru for his very superior debate.
01-25-2011, 04:03 PM
So can I jump in and say danzo wins via port-bind touch?
01-25-2011, 04:11 PM
Yup, I agree.
01-25-2011, 04:40 PM
Can I jump and say the majority of his points was based off of my points. Also lets get into the fact that it is a stomp. Port bind touch wouldn't work due to bee reactions. As I pointed out his reactions was way beyond Sasuke's and Sasuke kept up with danzo Izanagai teleportation constantly. Then there is the fact if he were to use cloak his reaction and speed is increased another level further. The only thing that would keep this fight going a lengthy duration is Izanagi. This fight would be like a clip show of south park of Kenny dying. Kenny being Danzo. Alas I am busy so the ruling really doesn't matter.
01-25-2011, 04:49 PM
After all, with suisui's eye lowering reaction time, bee likely wont even see him coming. Above this, if Danzo can simply izanagi port after, a Bee whom though he made the kill won't be able to figure out otherwise... by then out comes the giant biju
Also, Danzo is more than capable of simply using izanagi's ability as stated 479-3 to make his air slashes very real, and these had the ability to slice open the back of arrow-susanoo. With lowered reaction and the izanagi port, I dont think this can be survived by KB.
The biju summon also managed to shake susanoo loose of its foundation. V1 being smaller should end up facing a quick death effect... or at the very least be stuck. With no fire-based jutsu and wind beating out lightning, his raiton moves would also be useless. From this its a simple wind sever or a bind-touch.
As for speed, danzo is no slouch. 479-6 shows him not only outrunning the elephant, but the fact of him being able to get behind sasuke with little to no reaction and resist the suction in 479-8 means he either has extreme speed or is strong enough to resist the suction from something that unbased susanoo. As for someone arguing that susanoo blocked the wind flow, 479-7 shows the land all around susanoo being devoured and pulled in.
Lastly, danzo's reaction speeds, as I will state now. 468-7 shows him jumping away from a sudden-pop susanoo, which came out fast enough to stop a blurred blade from hitting sasuke at point blank. This shows good reaction speed with the short span of time. 478-9, he reacts to a susanoo arrow which has been regarded as supposidly supersonic+.
So supersonic+ reactions with 10 minutes of immortality...
A summon able to not only dismount susanoo but destroy a bridge which tanked susanoo arrows with just a small crater remaining...
Bind touch and speeds fast enough to grab sasuke by the throat before he had time to swing or react as is seen in 477-13. Add in teleports... and reaction speed drops...
How does danzo lose exactly?
01-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Thanks. Boom. Crack. Locked.
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