View Full Version : Pan vs Bardock
Ultimate combatant
01-09-2011, 08:44 AM
DBZ fighters are way stronger than DBGT fighters. As a non-canon continuation of DBZ, it seems all characters are extremely weakened in DBGT.
If you consider DBGT as something not connected with Akira Toriyama`s Dragon Ball World, GT characters are extremely weak characters who were never really strong at all.
Thus, Bardock>Pan
What kind of logic is that?
Anyways,I'm pretty sure canon Bardock is featless.If movie counts,I don't remember much.
cnorwood
01-09-2011, 10:14 AM
pan is pretty featless too in the manga
NarutoUzumaki12
01-09-2011, 04:11 PM
I think Bardock
oh how misinformed you are. gt characters are beyond anything we ever saw in z. you say dbz are solar system busters? well gt base goku destroyed a DIMENSION CASUALLY. and omega shenron has one single attack that can destroy the entire universe.
as for pan, im taking into account the power scaling from z. pan defeated android 20 who is stronger than frieza. i just wanted to see how many people would say bardock cos they like him more.
cnorwood
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
oh how misinformed you are. gt characters are beyond anything we ever saw in z. you say dbz are solar system busters? well gt base goku destroyed a DIMENSION CASUALLY. and omega shenron has one single attack that can destroy the entire universe.
as for pan, im taking into account the power scaling from z. pan defeated android 20 who is stronger than frieza. i just wanted to see how many people would say bardock cos they like him more.
cool story bro, pan and bardock are practically featless in canon
well canon wasnt specified.
Ultimate combatant
01-10-2011, 04:52 AM
oh how misinformed you are. gt characters are beyond anything we ever saw in z. you say dbz are solar system busters? well gt base goku destroyed a DIMENSION CASUALLY. and omega shenron has one single attack that can destroy the entire universe.
as for pan, im taking into account the power scaling from z. pan defeated android 20 who is stronger than frieza. i just wanted to see how many people would say bardock cos they like him more.
Just to correct you:
Android 20 >>>>>...>>>>>Android 20 GT
Pan GT > Android 20 GT
Android 20 >>>>>...>>>> Pan GT
Dodoria > Bardock >>>...>>> Pan GT
You are talking about DBGT as if it was continuation of DBZ. It is not. It is poor attempt of a fanfiction starting at the end of DBZ and borrowing characters, who are all horribly weakened in power, personality, looks,... As well as making massive plot holes, inconsistences. Not to mention it was terrible.
If you want Pan GT to win this fight, you have to change rules to somehow make her stronger!!! :D
Noctis Arashi
01-10-2011, 06:29 AM
Bardock busts the planet, and pan dies in the void of space.
Android 20 >>>>>...>>>>>Android 20 GT
where is that stated? nowhere. dont make up.
Dodoria > Bardock >>>...>>> Pan GT
that would mean pan is weaker than raditz lol. which she ISNT since she beat a 20 who you cant prove lost that much power.
You are talking about DBGT as if it was continuation of DBZ
well it is. toei made the dbz anime. toei made gt, and gt has z's characters and even finishes off loose plot threads from z like the tuffles and overusing the dragonballs.
who are all horribly weakened in power, personality, looks,... As well as making massive plot holes, inconsistences
no they arent weakened in power. if you mean no one blew planets up then yeah. but by that logic, cell saga fighters were weaker than frieza saga just because they werent ripping apart the planet as they fought.
personality? mostly exactly the same as they were in the end of z. i cant think of anyone who wasnt a logical progression from the end of z.
looks? toriyama designed everyone in gt.
lol as if the z anime and movies never had plot holes and inconsistencies.
Not to mention it was terrible
so your unfairly biased and calling them weakened in power for absolutely no reason other than you didnt like it so you make up like "its a fanfiction" and "they got weaker" when i cant think of anyone in dbz who can destroy dimensions or take out the entire universe in one attack or get punched across continents.
Bardock busts the planet, and pan dies in the void of space.
bardock cant breath in space either. bardock dies as well. fight ends in a draw. or pan reveals her power and kicks the planet buster back at bardocks face casually.
Narutorious
01-10-2011, 10:36 AM
GT Pan wins this fight just based on how strong Bardock is, Bardock wasn't even as strong as Vegeta in his first appearance. As for GT Pan, you can't really measure how strong she is, the only thing I can measure her strength is from the fact she was able to over power Android #20. As for the question, is this old Pan vs Bardock, because Pan at the end of GT is old.
cnorwood
01-10-2011, 12:14 PM
gt goku was cut by glass, so all bardock has to do is throw some glass
Narutorious
01-10-2011, 12:19 PM
That is the problem with GT, it's just weird, I mean Goku had to transform to Ssj4 to pick up a building.
Ultimate combatant
01-10-2011, 01:50 PM
where is that stated? nowhere. dont make up.
It is a result of a logical deduction. Just like it`s nowhere stated Cell is stronger than Cui.
that would mean pan is weaker than raditz lol. which she ISNT since she beat a 20 who you cant prove lost that much power.
I won`t say she is weaker than Raditz, though she is heavily implied to be. I`m not even sure she could fly at the end of GT. She thought she saw Goku and couldn`t even search for him. She didn`t even try to fly as far as I remember. And in the GT special, she nearly died because of... I don`t remember, but I know it was something normal. And no, you can`t blame the age, it wasn`t because of age, it was because her power greatly decreased.
well it is. toei made the dbz anime. toei made gt, and gt has z's characters and even finishes off loose plot threads from z like the tuffles and overusing the dragonballs.
Ther problem is the following:
DBZ anime has a canon source (Manga) which is turned into something non-canon (anime).
DBGT tries to have a non-canon source (Toei scenarios, plot, plotlines) into something canon, at which it does not succeed and becomes ultimate non-canon.
If canon turns into non-canon, just think into what something non-canon turns. That IS DBGT!!! :D
no they arent weakened in power. if you mean no one blew planets up then yeah. but by that logic, cell saga fighters were weaker than frieza saga just because they werent ripping apart the planet as they fought.
cnoorwood: gt goku was cut by glass, so all bardock has to do is throw some glass
Narutorious: That is the problem with GT, it's just weird, I mean Goku had to transform to Ssj4 to pick up a building.
personality? mostly exactly the same as they were in the end of z. i cant think of anyone who wasnt a logical progression from the end of z.
looks?
What about Goku? Sure Goku can sometimes be a little naive. But just because he is in a child`s body, doesn`t mean he should be so childish, that stupid or dumb, and even if were to assume he got mind of a 14-year old, he should act more like Dragon Ball Goku.
toriyama designed everyone in gt.
lol as if the z anime and movies never had plot holes and inconsistencies.
They had, not like GT, though. See above.
[QUOTE=USSJ;4604885]so your unfairly biased and calling them weakened in power for absolutely no reason other than you didnt like it so you make up like "its a fanfiction" and "they got weaker" when i cant think of anyone in dbz who can destroy dimensions or take out the entire universe in one attack or get punched across continents.
No. That was just a personal opinion. It was an additional information, which did not influence my judgement.
I can edit my comment and delete that sentence, if it bothers you so much.
Look, if you like DBGT or not, that`s fine. Both is fine. This is just a debate, nothing more. If you like it, there is no reason to change your opinion. Stick with what you believe in.
Be yourself and never give up!!! :D
gt goku was cut by glass
i rewatched gt and that never happened. come up with facts please.
I mean Goku had to transform to Ssj4 to pick up a building
it was a city block and we never really saw any strength feats in db/z except for punching and pushing big rocks/mountains. it made sense as goku was also half dead at the time.
though she is heavily implied to be
shes heavily implied to be android 18 level. hell she was fighting shadow dragons, sigma force and android ponies 20.
But just because he is in a child`s body, doesn`t mean he should be so childish, that stupid or dumb, and even if were to assume he got mind of a 14-year old, he should act more like Dragon Ball Goku.
youve seen original japanese version right? goku is like this big naive kid even in the voice acting area of things. of course he would still be even more of a kid thanks to shenrons magic. and even then hes far from stupid. goku is a fighting genius.
Look, if you like DBGT or not, that`s fine. Both is fine. This is just a debate, nothing more
then why use disgusting bias and wrong facts to try and "prove" pan, a ssj level being loses to that rainbow lover raditz?
Noctis Arashi
01-11-2011, 08:16 PM
Quit flaming and using vulgar language. Thank you. We use feats here. Bardock can breath is space, like all pure blood sayains. As bardock was seen in a flashback.
How about you come up with facts. Has pan even city busted?
well i just made a spite thread to show you why using feats to prove dbz points is ludicrous and idiotic.
bardock cannot breath in space. he was in the upper atmosphere. if saiyans can breath in space, frieza wouldnt say goku is gonna die when namek explodes but frieza would live on.
i dont care if shes city busted BECAUSE SHES NOT A MURDERER. GOKU HASNT DESTROYED A PLANET BUT CAN HE? YES! BECAUSE HE DEFEATED A PLANET BUSTER BY THE NAME OF FRIEZA! PAN DEFEATED ANDROID 20 BUT SOMEHOW SHES WEAKER THAN RADITZ? GOOD GOD LEARN SOME LOGIC! AARRRGGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
my god...im getting so sick of this. first you say its be myself and never give up. but when you ignore basic logic due to unfair bias...i might just leave this forum. its disgraceful to even posting in dbz threads if your gonna bring in logic like king piccolo > super 17 cos super 17 didnt city bust.
Noctis Arashi
01-11-2011, 08:29 PM
Proof he was in the upper atmosphere? Even then, air levels are HIGHLY thinned. And the vacuum of space starts to take hold. Point invalid even if you did make sense.
Go ahead, leave when all you make is spite and troll/flame. She has done nothing to prove she can beat bardock. And powerscaling GT to DBZ is almost impossible due to massive inconsistencies.
I never said SOLELY rely on feats. Did I? But you can't powerscale DBGT to DBZ. Because all the revived got significantly weaker. Nappa didn't city bust, frieza wasn't continent busting. No. Just no. Therefore we have feats and corresponding logic. Note, I'm not saying lawl stomp. But pan has shown nothing to suggest beating bardock.
Go ahead, leave when all you make is spite and troll/flame
actually i was a calm debater until you people ignored basic logic and power scaling and say gt is weaker than z. of course id spite that ludicrous idiocy. gt base goku freaking destroyed a dimension and ssj4 goku lifted a city block. name one lifting feat in z to match that.
has done nothing to prove she can beat bardock.
then you are beyond all help and possibly mentally challenged. SHE BEAT BEINGS STRONGER THAN FRIEZA, A PLANET BUSTER. can bardock beat android 20? NO.
But you can't powerscale DBGT to DBZ
i can and do. the entire z/gt fanbase can and does. not even your disgusting unfair bias will stop that.
Nappa didn't city bust, frieza wasn't continent busting
WHAT THE HELL? nappa DID city bust. how can i debate with someone WHO DIDNT EVEN WATCH THE GOD DAMN SHOW? and you dont need to go around continent busting IF YOUR IN HELL. we know gt base goku destroys dimensions and omega shenron can destroy the universe. and we know goku connects gt to z by saying rildo > kid buu. ignore basic logic because you think gt's plot holes prevent it from being power scaled but dont say gt is weaker than z just because they werent going around destroying continents! THEY DIDNT NEED TO. they focused on fighting each other and controlling their ki. thats why in cell saga, no one was destroying continents but we know they could if they tried.
Ultimate combatant
01-12-2011, 05:05 AM
The DBGT special doesn`t show Pan fly. It`s possible she couldn`t anymore!!! :D
Noctis Arashi
01-12-2011, 05:37 AM
actually i was a calm debater until you people ignored basic logic and power scaling and say gt is weaker than z. of course id spite that ludicrous idiocy. gt base goku freaking destroyed a dimension and ssj4 goku lifted a city block. name one lifting feat in z to match that.
then you are beyond all help and possibly mentally challenged. SHE BEAT BEINGS STRONGER THAN FRIEZA, A PLANET BUSTER. can bardock beat android 20? NO.
i can and do. the entire z/gt fanbase can and does. not even your disgusting unfair bias will stop that.
WHAT THE HELL? nappa DID city bust. how can i debate with someone WHO DIDNT EVEN WATCH THE GOD DAMN SHOW? and you dont need to go around continent busting IF YOUR IN HELL. we know gt base goku destroys dimensions and omega shenron can destroy the universe. and we know goku connects gt to z by saying rildo > kid buu. ignore basic logic because you think gt's plot holes prevent it from being power scaled but dont say gt is weaker than z just because they werent going around destroying continents! THEY DIDNT NEED TO. they focused on fighting each other and controlling their ki. thats why in cell saga, no one was destroying continents but we know they could if they tried.
Also, GT was non-cannon to the main series Z. Therefore that can't be used to power scale. He got out (nappa) And blew up a building using the same move to blow up a city. =/
and the z series is non canon to the manga. in the manga, dbz characters are barely above solar system busting and theres no proof gt characters arent capable of that.
lol at thinking pan cant fly in gt when she constantly does so. again how can i debate with people who havent even watched the show?
Ultimate combatant
01-17-2011, 05:15 AM
and the z series is non canon to the manga. in the manga, dbz characters are barely above solar system busting and theres no proof gt characters arent capable of that.
lol at thinking pan cant fly in gt when she constantly does so. again how can i debate with people who havent even watched the show?
I think you are wrong. She was shown to be able to fly when young, not when she was over 100 years old!!! :D
Narutorious
01-17-2011, 10:11 AM
Why wouldn't she be able to fly, it's a common technique, being old isn't going to take a toll on her, there just wasn't a reason for her to fly.
Ultimate combatant
01-17-2011, 10:13 AM
She needed to travel in a helicopter!!! :D
Narutorious
01-17-2011, 10:58 AM
That's not a good reason, that happen often in GT among the Saiyans.
Ultimate combatant
01-17-2011, 11:10 AM
She couldn`t even fly after Goku, after she saw him in the crowd!!! :D
Narutorious
01-17-2011, 11:14 AM
You putting way too much stock into that, they been times in GT when the saiyans or Uub had ran instead of fly in much more serious situations.
pan has no planet busting "feats" per se but destroys pillars and buildings with single punches and blasts. kills lord luud with the help of goku. destroys armies of robots on M2.
has defeated: android 20 who busted a city in dbz, two shadow dragons, a sigma cannon member who goku thought trunks couldnt defeat. knocked down general rildo who is stronger than majin buu and can bust a city just by powering up, stated by goku. can hurt first form bebi who is strong by the gt heroes standards. ssj gt trunks said pan was stronger than him. dr mu and dr gero both said pan has incredible hidden power even for her standards
Rasengan SageX5
03-10-2011, 09:55 PM
Sorry to say, but GT Trunks is a wuss compared to Trunks from the Cell Saga, so that isn't really much of a feat.
cnorwood
03-11-2011, 04:19 PM
this thread is lol, thanks ussj for posts of comedy
roguezan
03-12-2011, 10:16 PM
I never understood why idiot fanboys use GT in a battle. Its massively inconsistent, made of fail, and most importantly, it is not canon to the original manga.
Sorry to say, but GT Trunks is a wuss compared to Trunks from the Cell Saga,
no hes much stronger.
I never understood why idiot fanboys use GT in a battle. Its massively inconsistent, made of fail, and most importantly, it is not canon to the original manga.
personal bias should play no part in debates. it makes no difference whether you dont like it. marvel and dc are inconsistent as well.
also wheres it stated by toriyama that he doesnt consider gt canon? show me an interview or proof.
this thread is lol, thanks ussj for posts of comedy
pan still wins.
cnorwood
03-29-2011, 11:46 AM
GT isnt canon for the same reason the harry potter movies arent canon, they arent part of the original storyline, nor made by toriyama. gt goku was cut by glass meaning that ch1 goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gt goku in durability
GT isnt canon for the same reason the harry potter movies arent canon, they arent part of the original storyline, nor made by toriyama. gt goku was cut by glass meaning that ch1 goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gt goku in durability
Was it Anime only?
I remember Goku breaking a Glass by accident due to being so strong and had no scratch.
gt goku was cut by glass
long proven debunked. HIS HAND NEVER TOUCHED THE GROUND. and he was already cut and hurt from syn shenron's beating.
actually the harry potter movies are simply adaptions and part of the same universe but a different continuity. like in comics. would you say current superman is non canon because its not by the same author as original superman? ;);););) no. akira checked the story toei sent him and thinks of gt as a grand side story, canon to the anime.
long proven debunked. HIS HAND NEVER TOUCHED THE GROUND. and he was already cut and hurt from syn shenron's beating.
actually the harry potter movies are simply adaptions and part of the same universe but a different continuity. like in comics. would you say current superman is non canon because its not by the same author as original superman? ;);););) no. akira checked the story toei sent him and thinks of gt as a grand side story, canon to the anime.
I've been hearing that for ages and not once obtained an even slightly reliable source of this.
Hope you do.
And not you decide what Canon is just because someone checked it.
Here’s an interview from Akira Toriyama. this is LEGIT, I got it from VEGETTO EX on the DAIZENSHUU website and this interviews source comes from the daizenshuu 7 book in the shenlong articles
Interviewer: Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule today to...
Akira Toriyama: No, no, I’m not busy at all. The Dragon Ball Daizenshuu work is just writing a single paragraph, so I’m really not busy at all. (laughter)
Interviewer: In that case, you must be quite well-rested.
Akira Toriyama: Yes, well, I do go to sleep after I see my son off to school every morning. Right now, I’m putting up a new workplace, so, I end up staying up all night working out the plans. I’m pulling more all-nighters now than when I had a weekly serial. (laughter)
Interviewer: Now, with regards to the new anime series, Dragon Ball GT, just how involved are you with it?
Akira Toriyama: I’m only involved with it a little bit. I check the story that gets sent from Toei Animation, and give them some advice. Also, I drew some character illustrations for them. But it’s fun! It feels kind of like, 'Ah, so they had this kind of skill'. Everyone at Toei Animation has really wracked their brains, haven’t they. I appreciate their hard work. To think they’d make Goku little. With this story, the manga might be able to continue in serialization... but I really have absolutely no desire to draw it. (laughter)
Interviewer: So, you recommend GT, then!
Akira Toriyama: Yes! I recommend it.
[QUOTE=USSJ;4907715]Heres an interview from Akira Toriyama. this is LEGIT, I got it from VEGETTO EX on the DAIZENSHUU website and this interviews source comes from the daizenshuu 7 book in the shenlong articles
Interviewer: Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule today to...
Akira Toriyama: No, no, I’m not busy at all. The Dragon Ball Daizenshuu work is just writing a single paragraph, so I’m really not busy at all. (laughter)
Interviewer: In that case, you must be quite well-rested.
Akira Toriyama: Yes, well, I do go to sleep after I see my son off to school every morning. Right now, I’m putting up a new workplace, so, I end up staying up all night working out the plans. I’m pulling more all-nighters now than when I had a weekly serial. (laughter)
Interviewer: Now, with regards to the new anime series, Dragon Ball GT, just how involved are you with it?
Akira Toriyama: I’m only involved with it a little bit. I check the story that gets sent from Toei Animation, and give them some advice. Also, I drew some character illustrations for them. But it’s fun! It feels kind of like, 'Ah, so they had this kind of skill'. Everyone at Toei Animation has really wracked their brains, haven’t they. I appreciate their hard work. To think they’d make Goku little. With this story, the manga might be able to continue in serialization... but I really have absolutely no desire to draw it. (laughter)
Interviewer: So, you recommend GT, then!
Akira Toriyama: Yes! I recommend it.
PM me link or it didn't happen.
I know the underhanded tricks of DB Fans.Just a safety measure.
http://daizex.com/
find it yourself. and also i doubt most comic tards can dig up scans to back up their points. the dbz manga is readily available. these daizenshuu interviews are not. and its rare you find one translated.
or ask this guy http://www.youtube.com/user/PrinceofSaiyajins456 to give you the link.
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