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Uchiha Raimaru
12-07-2010, 07:33 PM
Do you believe it?

I decided to start watching the anime for Shippuden again, as I had stopped after realizing that the manga was farther ahead, as well as that it was faster to read the manga than watch the anime. But I decided to watch it again, and I noticed a few inconsistencies in Madara's story about the Uchiha Clan and the founding of the Leaf Village.

Madara says that his brother Izuna understood his desire to protect the Uchiha Clan, and willingly gave up his eyes so that Madara could obtain the Eternal Mangekyou, while Itachi says that while nearly completely blind, Madara stole Izuna's eyes from his head, and that it coincidently gave birth to the Eternal Mangekyou.

This two are inconsistent. If Madara's story is true, then Madara knew how to obtain the Eternal Mangekyou before he took his brother's eyes, and if Itachi's story is correct, then Madara had no clue, and that he stumbled upon the Eternal Mangekyou.

Madara also tells Sasuke that the final straw for the Leaf Village was the attack by the Kyuubi where Minato sealed it into Naruto. The village blamed the Uchiha Clan for it since the Sharingan controls the Kyuubi, but Madara told Sasuke that it was a natural occurrence that the Uchiha had no control over. Obviously, we now know that Madara was behind that attack on the Leaf Village.

But we can't count all of Madara's story out, because he said the Leaf planted a spy within the Uchiha Clan: Itachi. I believe most, if not all of that, was true, because in the earlier flashbacks with Itachi, we see both the ANBU and Fugaku talking to Itachi about some secret, important mission. An ANBU member tells Itachi, "If you can't do it, we'll do it ourselves." While Fugaku tells him, "You're our link to the village. Do you understand how important this is?"

So here's my theory: Madara had the fox attack the Leaf, fully knowing that they'd blame the Uchiha Clan. The destruction of the Leaf was never his intention in that fight. He merely wanted to cause instability between the village and the Uchiha. He knew they'd place a spy in the midst of the Uchihas, and that that would be his chance to truly take revenge on the Clan. If he created Akatsuki, he knew that he'd get his chance to destroy the Leaf virtually any time he desired, but not so much to destroy the Clan. At least, he would probably not get the chance to get this personal with his vengeance.

He probably also saw the potential for Itachi, but, realizing he couldn't be used, he turned his attention to Sasuke, fully knowing that Itachi left him alive and that one day, Sasuke would, on Itachi's wishes, become powerful enough to defeat Itachi. He hoped that Sasuke could be used better than Itachi could, and for the moment, it seems as if he was right.

As for the inconsistencies with Izuna's eyes, I honestly can't say. Not with any real proof. What seems the most likely is that Madara hid his desire for power behind his "desire to protect the Clan" and Izuna respected his "desire to protect the Clan" but in reality the eye scenario probably played out closer to Itachi's version of the story. But that's just baseless speculation.

This is probably filled with holes, though, so feel free to point those out.

Also, forgive me if everyone realized this before me, and I'm just slow `o.o"

I also wasn't sure where exactly this should go, so I just put it here and if it seems like it needs to be moved, please have a mod move it.

BlackAngel
12-07-2010, 07:59 PM
nice work on bringing this up, i recently read the chapters of madara.

Madara is indeed a interesting character even though i hate him so much for killing Konan the last of the Ame orphans :mad:. He tends to be saying he always tells the truth yet he lies mostly often. He did indeed lie that when the nine tails fox attacked the village it was a natural occurence when it was him who was behind the true attack. I believe Itachi's truth over Madara's since Madara is indeed a cold hearted fiend who only wants domination over everything (ex.Moons Eye Plan). I have also never saw that Itachi has lied once, Itachi was a very honest man. I still think there is more to learn about Madara himself, i believe one of these characters will find out info off him or Madara himself will explain his past in the absolute TRUTH to naruto when the battle between Naruto and Madara is over.

Uchiha Raimaru
12-07-2010, 08:30 PM
nice work on bringing this up, i recently read the chapters of madara.

Madara is indeed a interesting character even though i hate him so much . . . I still think there is more to learn about Madara himself, i believe . . . Madara himself will explain his past in the absolute TRUTH to naruto when the battle between Naruto and Madara is over.

I agree on all these points.

I also hate Madara, but I hate him simply because . . . I hate him. Orochimaru was a much more interesting bad guy.

BlackAngel
12-07-2010, 09:14 PM
I agree on all these points.

I also hate Madara, but I hate him simply because . . . I hate him. Orochimaru was a much more interesting bad guy.

>I hate him simply because . . . I hate him

excellent reason for hating him.

YES, Orochimaru is indeed alot better then Madara, too bad he's deceased now. at least we have four eyes Kabuto :eek:.

Kakashi Hatake_Yamato
12-07-2010, 10:29 PM
im kinda not buying madara's story, because he is known to manipulate others to do what he wants...so...but there are some parts to his story i believe in

madara'
12-12-2010, 10:11 AM
nice work on bringing this up, i recently read the chapters of madara.

Madara is indeed a interesting character even though i hate him so much for killing Konan the last of the Ame orphans :mad:. He tends to be saying he always tells the truth yet he lies mostly often. He did indeed lie that when the nine tails fox attacked the village it was a natural occurence when it was him who was behind the true attack. I believe Itachi's truth over Madara's since Madara is indeed a cold hearted fiend who only wants domination over everything (ex.Moons Eye Plan). I have also never saw that Itachi has lied once, Itachi was a very honest man. I still think there is more to learn about Madara himself, i believe one of these characters will find out info off him or Madara himself will explain his past in the absolute TRUTH to naruto when the battle between Naruto and Madara is over.
I agree.

JC.
02-04-2011, 05:38 AM
I like Madara, he's a cool character and he's not a pedobear like Orochimaru. xD

And I can relate to Madara too.

Freshmen Academy Student
06-11-2011, 06:18 PM
No... I don't believe it.

Crystal Marionette
06-12-2011, 10:46 PM
I hated Madara at first but I didn't know his story at the time and when I did, I could empathize with him because it's terrible having people turn on you. Trust me, it's one of the worst things that anyone could go through and it actually would make you turn out like Madara did.

After that, I started liking him and I kind of goaded him on...

EDIT: There's always something like a betrayal if someone's sanity slips. It happened to me

narusaku naruto vs sasuke
06-16-2011, 07:30 PM
nice work on bringing this up, i recently read the chapters of madara.

Madara is indeed a interesting character even though i hate him so much for killing Konan the last of the Ame orphans :mad:. He tends to be saying he always tells the truth yet he lies mostly often. He did indeed lie that when the nine tails fox attacked the village it was a natural occurence when it was him who was behind the true attack. I believe Itachi's truth over Madara's since Madara is indeed a cold hearted fiend who only wants domination over everything (ex.Moons Eye Plan). I have also never saw that Itachi has lied once, Itachi was a very honest man. I still think there is more to learn about Madara himself, i believe one of these characters will find out info off him or Madara himself will explain his past in the absolute TRUTH to naruto when the battle between Naruto and Madara is over.

when did tobi or obito or madara or whatever kill konan `#( how dare him konan was cool and sorta powerful anyways good thinking still there's a 50/50 chance madara and or itachi are true i believe madara in the history and i believe itachi in when madara sent the fox and tried to do all that evil stuff still itachi did never tell sasuke almost anything :?: :?: and by the way i had like half of last year watching naruto then in the midddle of the year started watching dragon ball z so yeah i never saw when tobi killed konan `!:)`!:)`!:)

Mizukage
06-16-2011, 08:57 PM
Will there ever be a villain I can just hate?
Without the sad past that makes me sad?

VirtualDiva
06-17-2011, 10:10 AM
Do you believe it?

I decided to start watching the anime for Shippuden again, as I had stopped after realizing that the manga was farther ahead, as well as that it was faster to read the manga than watch the anime. But I decided to watch it again, and I noticed a few inconsistencies in Madara's story about the Uchiha Clan and the founding of the Leaf Village.

Madara says that his brother Izuna understood his desire to protect the Uchiha Clan, and willingly gave up his eyes so that Madara could obtain the Eternal Mangekyou, while Itachi says that while nearly completely blind, Madara stole Izuna's eyes from his head, and that it coincidently gave birth to the Eternal Mangekyou.

This two are inconsistent. If Madara's story is true, then Madara knew how to obtain the Eternal Mangekyou before he took his brother's eyes, and if Itachi's story is correct, then Madara had no clue, and that he stumbled upon the Eternal Mangekyou.

Madara also tells Sasuke that the final straw for the Leaf Village was the attack by the Kyuubi where Minato sealed it into Naruto. The village blamed the Uchiha Clan for it since the Sharingan controls the Kyuubi, but Madara told Sasuke that it was a natural occurrence that the Uchiha had no control over. Obviously, we now know that Madara was behind that attack on the Leaf Village.

But we can't count all of Madara's story out, because he said the Leaf planted a spy within the Uchiha Clan: Itachi. I believe most, if not all of that, was true, because in the earlier flashbacks with Itachi, we see both the ANBU and Fugaku talking to Itachi about some secret, important mission. An ANBU member tells Itachi, "If you can't do it, we'll do it ourselves." While Fugaku tells him, "You're our link to the village. Do you understand how important this is?"

So here's my theory: Madara had the fox attack the Leaf, fully knowing that they'd blame the Uchiha Clan. The destruction of the Leaf was never his intention in that fight. He merely wanted to cause instability between the village and the Uchiha. He knew they'd place a spy in the midst of the Uchihas, and that that would be his chance to truly take revenge on the Clan. If he created Akatsuki, he knew that he'd get his chance to destroy the Leaf virtually any time he desired, but not so much to destroy the Clan. At least, he would probably not get the chance to get this personal with his vengeance.

He probably also saw the potential for Itachi, but, realizing he couldn't be used, he turned his attention to Sasuke, fully knowing that Itachi left him alive and that one day, Sasuke would, on Itachi's wishes, become powerful enough to defeat Itachi. He hoped that Sasuke could be used better than Itachi could, and for the moment, it seems as if he was right.

As for the inconsistencies with Izuna's eyes, I honestly can't say. Not with any real proof. What seems the most likely is that Madara hid his desire for power behind his "desire to protect the Clan" and Izuna respected his "desire to protect the Clan" but in reality the eye scenario probably played out closer to Itachi's version of the story. But that's just baseless speculation.

This is probably filled with holes, though, so feel free to point those out.

Also, forgive me if everyone realized this before me, and I'm just slow `o.o"

I also wasn't sure where exactly this should go, so I just put it here and if it seems like it needs to be moved, please have a mod move it.


I think this is a really good analysis and I totally agree with it. But there will always be inconsistencies with other people's version of "what really happened" (Madara's version vs. Itachi's). In other words, the inconsistency of facts make it look like the person is lying when they are probably just telling the truth according the their own perception.

The same thing happens when police officers interview witnesses to, say a car accident. Each witness gives a different version of what they saw happen because each person's perception is different. It depends on a lot of factors like, where they were standing at the time (on the corner of the street vs. across the street), what they were doing (distracted, talking on their cell phone) and at what angle they saw the accident happen that make it seem like they altered their story when compared to other versions. Also, as time goes by, people's memory of what happened changes because there are things they just can't remember anymore so without realizing it they fill in the blanks with things that, according to them, make sense.

However, I can't rule out the possibility that Madara purposely added some false details in his story to make it have the impact he wanted it to have. Or because of the big lapse in time (since years have gone by since the incidents occurred) Madara is just telling the story the best way he remembers them. Same possibility with Itachi.

Speaking of Itachi, I think he says it best when he explains to Sasuke what "reality" is: "People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts … their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"

Crystal Marionette
06-24-2011, 02:23 PM
I like Madara, he's a cool character and he's not a pedobear like Orochimaru. xD

And I can relate to Madara too.

Same here. And I so agree on the Orochimaru part

Purple Diesel
06-27-2011, 10:00 PM
i agree!

Sabaku.Soso
06-29-2011, 07:59 AM
Do you believe it?

I decided to start watching the anime for Shippuden again, as I had stopped after realizing that the manga was farther ahead, as well as that it was faster to read the manga than watch the anime. But I decided to watch it again, and I noticed a few inconsistencies in Madara's story about the Uchiha Clan and the founding of the Leaf Village.

Madara says that his brother Izuna understood his desire to protect the Uchiha Clan, and willingly gave up his eyes so that Madara could obtain the Eternal Mangekyou, while Itachi says that while nearly completely blind, Madara stole Izuna's eyes from his head, and that it coincidently gave birth to the Eternal Mangekyou.

This two are inconsistent. If Madara's story is true, then Madara knew how to obtain the Eternal Mangekyou before he took his brother's eyes, and if Itachi's story is correct, then Madara had no clue, and that he stumbled upon the Eternal Mangekyou.

Madara also tells Sasuke that the final straw for the Leaf Village was the attack by the Kyuubi where Minato sealed it into Naruto. The village blamed the Uchiha Clan for it since the Sharingan controls the Kyuubi, but Madara told Sasuke that it was a natural occurrence that the Uchiha had no control over. Obviously, we now know that Madara was behind that attack on the Leaf Village.

But we can't count all of Madara's story out, because he said the Leaf planted a spy within the Uchiha Clan: Itachi. I believe most, if not all of that, was true, because in the earlier flashbacks with Itachi, we see both the ANBU and Fugaku talking to Itachi about some secret, important mission. An ANBU member tells Itachi, "If you can't do it, we'll do it ourselves." While Fugaku tells him, "You're our link to the village. Do you understand how important this is?"

So here's my theory: Madara had the fox attack the Leaf, fully knowing that they'd blame the Uchiha Clan. The destruction of the Leaf was never his intention in that fight. He merely wanted to cause instability between the village and the Uchiha. He knew they'd place a spy in the midst of the Uchihas, and that that would be his chance to truly take revenge on the Clan. If he created Akatsuki, he knew that he'd get his chance to destroy the Leaf virtually any time he desired, but not so much to destroy the Clan. At least, he would probably not get the chance to get this personal with his vengeance.

He probably also saw the potential for Itachi, but, realizing he couldn't be used, he turned his attention to Sasuke, fully knowing that Itachi left him alive and that one day, Sasuke would, on Itachi's wishes, become powerful enough to defeat Itachi. He hoped that Sasuke could be used better than Itachi could, and for the moment, it seems as if he was right.

As for the inconsistencies with Izuna's eyes, I honestly can't say. Not with any real proof. What seems the most likely is that Madara hid his desire for power behind his "desire to protect the Clan" and Izuna respected his "desire to protect the Clan" but in reality the eye scenario probably played out closer to Itachi's version of the story. But that's just baseless speculation.

This is probably filled with holes, though, so feel free to point those out.

Also, forgive me if everyone realized this before me, and I'm just slow `o.o"

I also wasn't sure where exactly this should go, so I just put it here and if it seems like it needs to be moved, please have a mod move it.

Please let me analyze some points of ur in my way(hope it wont be so wrong)
First of all, abt the eyes of Izuna, I think Madara really hadnt had the intention of taking his brother's eyes (even he known that was the only way 2 archive the Mangekyou) since at the time when Izuna's eyes were transferred, Madara's were in very bad condition (near blind as u mentioned before). If Madara were the 1 that had the heart 2 steal the eyes of his own younger brother, he would have done it earlier on, when his sharingan appeared 2 have problem. Plus, in Itachi's story, I think he had some specific misunderstandings. Altho Izuna could possibly not be as strong as Madara was, if it wasnt his own will, Izuna would react as self-defence. And with Maara's situation at that moment, theres no way he could have the eyes.
In my opinion, most of ur ideas on Madara's true intention sound reasonable except from his not intending to destroy Konoha. Agree that theres a high possibility that his priority was the Uchiha bring wiped out but I suppose we shouldnt say the destruction of Konoha wasnt carried out in purpose. As he said, Uchiha clan was fated to be avenger since the day Rikudo Sennin chose his successor, so, we can consider the Kyuubi event as a part of the revenge. To my definition, revenge or stuff like that mean elimination.
Thats all 4 my points, again, hope its not so bad:D