SM Naruto vs. Deidara

[Shikamaru Nara]

Restrictions: No C4 or C0.

I a specifically looking to debate with tyrell because I havent yet. But feel free to post.

[tyrell4life194]

Why, thank you. And this is why, I say Naruto stomps this. Reason?

Deidara's clay bombs takes prep time. Naruto can speedblitz him during that time.

If Deidara wants to fly in the air, creating a clay bird also takes prep time. Naruto can speedblitz him during that time.

Even if Deidara actually manages to get up in the air, Naruto can create a Rasenshuriken, which takes less prep time than Deidara's clay bombs. His Rasenshuriken is Supersonic-Hypersonic, as proven in the Manga. It was able to cross the mountain range sized CT crater in one second. It's faster than any of Deidara's attacks. Naruto will be able to one shot him with ease with the Rasenshuriken.

But I highly doubt he needs it anyway. As I've said earlier, Deidara's jutsus takes prep time, and during that time, Naruto can speedblitz him.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Although I agree, will disagree for the sake of a debate.
How much prep do the bombs take? He was able to prepare them while in combat with Gaara. And in the air, Naruto gets bombed. IN the case that he cannot get into the air, he just uses some bomb feints.

[tyrell4life194]

Although I agree, will disagree for the sake of a debate.
How much prep do the bombs take? He was able to prepare them while in combat with Gaara. And in the air, Naruto gets bombed. IN the case that he cannot get into the air, he just uses some bomb feints.
Incorrect.
He was able to prepare them, because he was able to avoid Gaara's Sand with his large clay bird. In other words, he kept moving, knowing that Gaara can't catch up to him, which enabled him to create a clay bomb, without worry of getting injured by Gaara's sand. Also, he was able to make another clay bomb, because he destracted Gaara with C3. While Gaara was destracted, Deidara sent a clay bomb towards Gaara's Shield of Sand. When Deidara got his arm crushed, he put in some clay bombs inside the Shield of Sand. He knows that Gaara would use his Shield of Sand if danger is near, which is the clay bomb flying towards him. As soon as the Shield of Sand protected him, it blew up, injuring Gaara inside. All of this requires a massive amount of prep time.

Now, Deidara can use C3. But again, it requires prep time. Naruto can create a Rasenshuriken in less prep time than Deidara can with his clay bombs. That is, if Deidara can make it in the air before he gets speedblitzed.

[Shikamaru Nara]

What can Naruto throw at him that Gaara couldn't? Shuriken? I highly doubt the effectiveness of that. And that's my point. Naruto has nothing to throw at Deidara while he's moving.

So he has C3, he can use it.

Deidara can easily get at a distance. Bomb feints and he runs. This grants him time.

[tyrell4life194]

OK cya l8r dude.

[Uchiha Raimaru]

Naruto needs clones for Rasen-Shuriken, which takes - you guessed it - prep time. And more prep time than Deidara's clay.

C4 is the one that attacks on a cellular level, and C0 is Deidara's suicide bomb, right? Without those, there's not much Deidara can do against SM Naruto. SM Naruto's shown more speed and strength feats in one fight than Deidara has his whole life. Deidara could arguably dodge an FRS (maybe two if the planets are aligned right) on his bird, but that won't work forever. Eventually, he's gonna get raped with Gargantuan Rasengan or Nonstop Gargantuan Rasengan Barrage.

[tyrell4life194]

Naruto needs clones for Rasen-Shuriken, which takes - you guessed it - prep time. And more prep time than Deidara's clay.

C4 is the one that attacks on a cellular level, and C0 is Deidara's suicide bomb, right? Without those, there's not much Deidara can do against SM Naruto. SM Naruto's shown more speed and strength feats in one fight than Deidara has his whole life. Deidara could arguably dodge an FRS (maybe two if the planets are aligned right) on his bird, but that won't work forever. Eventually, he's gonna get raped with Gargantuan Rasengan or Nonstop Gargantuan Rasengan Barrage.
This is SM Naruto. It takes very little prep time for him to make a Rasenshuriken, than it takes for Deidara to make clay.

Read the OP. C4 and C0 is restricted. Learn how to read.

[[Shikamaru]]

This is SM Naruto. It takes very little prep time for him to make a Rasenshuriken, than it takes for Deidara to make clay.

Read the OP. C4 and C0 is restricted. Learn how to read.
Dude, you're terrible.

Summoning clones, constructing a rasengan, then molding wind chakra into it, creating rasenshuriken, is much slower than Deidara spitting out a clay bird from his hand and flying.

[tyrell4life194]

;4414813']Dude, you're terrible.

Summoning clones, constructing a rasengan, then molding wind chakra into it, creating rasenshuriken, is much slower than Deidara spitting out a clay bird from his hand and flying.
And yet, it took Naruto only one page for him to create a Rasenshuriken in SM, when he faced Deva Path. SM increases your chakra control, speed, durability, chakra, and strength. You fail nicely.

[Uchiha Raimaru]

And yet, it took Naruto only one page for him to create a Rasenshuriken in SM, when he faced Deva Path. SM increases your chakra control, speed, durability, chakra, and strength. You fail nicely.

It only ever took Deidara a couple panels at most to create a clay figure.

Hey, guess what?

I SAID WITHOUT C4 OR C0, DEIDARA COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

Thanks for not reading my post, only taking what you want from it, then being hypocritical enough to say I'm the one who needs to learn to read. Man, the forum really needs more hypocritical trolls.

[Kuromaki]

Deidara can make all the birds he wants. Because by the time he flies up into the sky, Naruto will have already created a Rasenshuriken and thrown it at him.

[[Shikamaru]]

And yet, it took Naruto only one page for him to create a Rasenshuriken in SM, when he faced Deva Path. SM increases your chakra control, speed, durability, chakra, and strength. You fail nicely.
None of which have anything to do with the speed it takes to summon a clone, and mold three different chakras together. Chakra speed and concentration is not increased, it cannot be.

Had he not needed clones to help him construct it, there would be no issue here.

[tyrell4life194]

It only ever took Deidara a couple panels at most to create a clay figure.

Hey, guess what?

I SAID WITHOUT C4 OR C0, DEIDARA COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

Thanks for not reading my post, only taking what you want from it, then being hypocritical enough to say I'm the one who needs to learn to read. Man, the forum really needs more hypocritical trolls.
OK and? A you can use Panel Relativity to tell the time of a situation in Manga. Besides, it only took a page for Naruto to make a Rasenshuriken, in very little prep time. Also, Deidara still needs to throw the clay bombs, which are incredibly slower than Naruto's Rasenshuriken. Besides, Deidara will get speedblitzed before he can even make a clay bomb.

[tyrell4life194]

;4415007']None of which have anything to do with the speed it takes to summon a clone, and mold three different chakras together. Chakra speed and concentration is not increased, it cannot be.

Had he not needed clones to help him construct it, there would be no issue here.
Chakra speed is also increased, because chakra speed is influenced by chakra control. Therefore, the speed needed to make the Rasenshuriken is much less than if he would've made the Rasenshuriken in Base Form.

[[Shikamaru]]

It only ever took Deidara a couple panels at most to create a clay figure.

Hey, guess what?

I SAID WITHOUT C4 OR C0, DEIDARA COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

Thanks for not reading my post, only taking what you want from it, then being hypocritical enough to say I'm the one who needs to learn to read. Man, the forum really needs more hypocritical trolls.
Lmao, he's your basic flamer.

When he fails at something, he brings some other fail theory up to cover up his obvious stomp.

[[Shikamaru]]

Chakra speed is also increased, because chakra speed is influenced by chakra control. Therefore, the speed needed to make the Rasenshuriken is much less than if he would've made the Rasenshuriken in Base Form.
Naruto's concentration is needed to form and mold chakra, SM does not increase concentration or chakra molding speed.

It increases speed, chakra pool, chakra strength and physical strength. That's it.

Jiraiya creates rasengan in base form just as fast as in SM.

[tyrell4life194]

;4415056']Naruto's concentration is needed to form and mold chakra, SM does not increase concentration or chakra molding speed.

It increases speed, chakra pool, and strength. That's it.
Wrong again. I will tell you about Senjutsu. Senjutsu is when you gather natural energy around you, making Senjutsu chakra. This type of chakra allows the user to enter in Sage Mode. The Senjutsu chakra increases all the properties of Genjutsu, Taijutsu, and Ninjutsu. In other words, for Ninjutsu, it increases it's strength, speed, and chakra control. So get your facts straight, and bring in real proof, before you come back here.

[tyrell4life194]

;4415056']Naruto's concentration is needed to form and mold chakra, SM does not increase concentration or chakra molding speed.

It increases speed, chakra pool, chakra strength and physical strength. That's it.

Jiraiya creates rasengan in base form just as fast as in SM.
You just told me it doesn't increase speed. It also increases chakra control, because chakra control is needed to generate the necessary speed to create a Ninjutsu.

[[Shikamaru]]

Wrong again. I will tell you about Senjutsu. Senjutsu is when you gather natural energy around you, making Senjutsu chakra. This type of chakra allows the user to enter in Sage Mode. The Senjutsu chakra increases all the properties of Genjutsu, Taijutsu, and Ninjutsu. In other words, for Ninjutsu, it increases it's strength, speed, and chakra control. So get your facts straight, and bring in real proof, before you come back here.
Lol it does not increase molding speed, it only amps the strength and speed of the jutsu itself.

In no way does it increase the ability to concentrate or mold chakra into a elemental technique.

Your proof is a panel in a manga. That's not in any way enough. Everytime he used Rasenshuriken he had prep, as the opponent didn't care to go on offense.

I've never heard anyone make the argument that one ninja had better molding speed than the other.

[tyrell4life194]

Also, there's one more thing. It took Naruto in Base Form many panels for him to make a Rasenshuriken in Base Form. It only took him in Sage Mode one page for him to form a Rasenshuriken. Chakra control contributes to the speed necessary to create a Ninjutsu. The more chakra control you have, the easier for you to create a Ninjutsu at a much faster rate.

[Kuromaki]

It actually took him two panels in Sage Mode, not counting all the "ZOMG UR JIRAIYAS STUDENT?!!1" stuff.

[tyrell4life194]

;4415081']Lol it does not increase molding speed, it only amps the strength and speed of the jutsu itself.

In no way does it increase the ability to concentrate or mold chakra into a elemental technique.

Your proof is a panel in a manga. That's not in any way enough. Everytime he used Rasenshuriken he had prep, as the opponent didn't care to go on offense.
Incorrect. Senjutsu chakra increases chakra control of the user. This chakra control enables the user to create a Ninjutsu at a much faster rate. One example is the time different between Naruto creating a Rasenshuriken in Base Form and Naruto creating a Rasenshuriken in SM. Want another example? Naruto in Base Form has horrible chakra control. Yamato stated that Naruto only had about half of the Rasenshuriken completed. But once he was in SM, he fully completed the Rasenshuriken, to the point where he can throw it. All of this is due to the chakra control of the user. Get my point?

[[Shikamaru]]

Also, there's one more thing. It took Naruto in Base Form many panels for him to make a Rasenshuriken in Base Form. It only took him in Sage Mode one page for him to form a Rasenshuriken. Chakra control contributes to the speed necessary to create a Ninjutsu. The more chakra control you have, the easier for you to create a Ninjutsu at a much faster rate.
Once again, panel choice of Kishimoto suggests nothing.

The fact that he decided not to show the clones summoning or them molding the chakra was indeed a personal choice.

In the anime he clearly took the same amount of time as in base form.

If we scaled speed based on panel choice of an artist, we'd be pretty screwed.

[tyrell4life194]

It actually took him two panels in Sage Mode, not counting all the "ZOMG UR JIRAIYA"S STUDENT?!!" stuff.
Less panels than that of Base Form.

[tyrell4life194]

;4415104']Once again, panel choice of Kishimoto suggests nothing.

The fact that he decided not to show the clones summoning or them molding the chakra was indeed a personal choice.

In the anime he clearly took the same amount of time as in base form.
Panel relativity helps you tell the time of a situation, whether the movement between characters are the same, if movement is slowed down, or the movement is increased.

Don't use Anime, it's non canon.

[Kuromaki]

Too bad the anime is only an adaptation of the manga. I've seen some scenes in the anime that were made extra long or they added filler to it for a dramatic effect, but none of those are Kishimoto's intent or he would've put it in the manga when he was writing it.

[tyrell4life194]

In other words, it's non canon, correct?

[Kuromaki]

Depends on your definition of canon, although it's not the author's authentic work so I would say so.

There's also something in the rules about not using fillers unless the OP says so.

[tyrell4life194]

OK. But I don't use fillers at all, even if the OP says so.

[Shikamaru Nara]

OK cya l8r dude.

Ready to go.

[tyrell4life194]

Yeah. Lets do this.

OK, Deidara loses this very badly. He can't spam any of his attacks, and his attacks takes prep time. Naruto is Supersonic speed, and Deidara's speed is nowhere near Supersonic. He gets speedblitzed before he could do anything.