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RINNEMAN1
11-29-2010, 01:35 PM
Who wins?

ko lee
11-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Rock Lee wins in my opinion. Lee wins in strength and if he opens the gates he speed blitz for the win.

mikeiskewl922
11-29-2010, 01:50 PM
Lee is a loooooot faster then Ssuma, so it would be easy to blitz him.
Although Burning Ash may give Lee some trouble and make ikt hard to get close, but he should be able to dodge it.
Going into Gates would give Lee the automatic win. BUT, Gates takes a little time to enter, so Asuma may be able to reach hi in that time...

deidara330
11-29-2010, 04:06 PM
In my opinion, Lee would win. He's actually a high tier speedster in my opinion, for the fact that he travels the largest distances of a lot of characters. All he'd have to do is take his weights off and go into Gates and he'll win, because then Asuma would have no attack Lee can't dodge and Asuma couldn't simply dodge Lee. I don't really think Asuma can hit Lee before he takes off his weights, at least, because the starting distance is 50 meters, and Asuma hasn't shown speed impressive enough to hit Lee before he gets too powerful for Asuma to handle. He may be able to win if Lee only takes off his weights, but even then I still think Lee has the better chance. Ash Pile Burning takes a little time to prepare and Lee can escape its range by the time it goes into effect.

Uchiha Raimaru
11-29-2010, 04:27 PM
Default SoM is bloodlust if I recall correctly which means an automatic no weights, 5-6 Gate Lee closing the 50-meter distance and punching a hole through Asuma's face.

321zigzag3
11-30-2010, 05:55 AM
I am very sure Asuma who is still a low elite jounin can take on Rock Lee with ease minus gates.

Uchiha Raimaru
11-30-2010, 06:31 AM
I am very sure Asuma who is still a low elite jounin can take on Rock Lee with ease minus gates.

Without gates, Asuma would win through experience and ninjutsu, but not with Lee in gates, which is the first thing Lee is going to do if he's bloodlusted, which he is by default settings.

SimpleGenin
11-30-2010, 06:41 AM
By feats Lee wins no question about it.

With manga logic and hype, Asuma wins. After all, he did beat a group of ninja made up of Jonin and Chunin all by himself with no problem at all.

Pain_man_who_became_god
11-30-2010, 07:28 AM
asuma, just cuz he has a beard and a smoker will ALWAYS beat a non smoker. raspy voice asuma for the win, but if its a match of longevity, lee wins by not getting cancer

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 06:48 PM
Asuma roflstomps.

Dodged direct point blank attacks from Hidan, also kept up with him.

Hidan is considered Sonic, having kept Kakashi on edge.

Asuma also wiped out an entire platoon of foreign Jonin ninja within seconds.

Lee is sonic in gates, at best. Without gates, he's barely subsonic.

Asuma could blitz and kill Lee before he even entered gates with chakra blades.

Asuma was Jonin for a reason. Hence why they chose him to hunt Akatsuki.

AfroMan
12-03-2010, 06:51 PM
8 gates. Rock Lee smashes Asuma's face in.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 06:54 PM
8 gates. Rock Lee smashes Asuma's face in.
Lee can only go 5 gates.

His best speed feat is out speeding pre-skip Gaara's sand.

And not breaking through the sand shield.

Asuma's speed features are much more outstanding.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 06:54 PM
By feats Lee wins no question about it.

With manga logic and hype, Asuma wins. After all, he did beat a group of ninja made up of Jonin and Chunin all by himself with no problem at all.

By feats only Lee can win through gates as well.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 06:56 PM
By feats only Lee can win through gates as well.
I doubt he could even win at that point.

In my opinion, he has not shown enough features in gates to be considered on par with Asuma, as he had almost equalized speed with Hidan.

Lee would not kill Hidan.

AfroMan
12-03-2010, 06:57 PM
;4404812']Lee can only go 5 gates.

His best speed feat is out speeding pre-skip Gaara's sand.

And not breaking through the sand shield.

Asuma's speed features are much more outstanding.

Well whatever that's what I meant. And how is Asuma fast? He only has good reaction time which is completely different from speed. Plus even if Asuma manages to block against Rock lee, the power he has in his gates will probably send Asuma flying.

IizHokage
12-03-2010, 06:58 PM
Rock lee opens gate = PWNAGE

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:02 PM
Well whatever that's what I meant. And how is Asuma fast? He only has reaction time which is completely different from speed. Plus even if Asuma manages to block against Rock lee, the power he has in his gates will probably send Asuma flying.
How do you expect lee to have time to enter gates?

It's a complete and utter concentration technique that requires prep.

Asuma reacted to Hidan's weapons, which are just as fast as lee in gates by power scaling.

Lee is far from fast on Akatsuki level.

Read the feats I pre posted, Asuma's speed features outweigh lee's by quite a bit.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:07 PM
;4404837']I doubt he could even win at that point.

In my opinion, he has not shown enough features in gates to be considered on par with Asuma, as he had almost equalized speed with Hidan.

Lee would not kill Hidan.

Well if the fight goes unless Lee goes gates quickly he is likely to go basic taijutsu and gets defeated due to Asuma's trench knives after some time. That is one outcome.

;4404885']Asuma reacted to Hidan's weapons, which are just as fast as lee in gates by power scaling.

.
Hidan hasn't shown movement close to Lee in gates.

Weightless Lee in Part 1 isn't Akatsuki level at all but in gates yes and perhaps higher.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Well if the fight goes unless Lee goes gates quickly he is likely to go basic taijutsu and gets defeated due to Asuma's trench knives after some time. That is one outcome.


Hidan hasn't shown movement close to Lee in gates.

Weightless Lee in Part 1 isn't Akatsuki level at all but in gates yes and perhaps higher.
List Lee's speed features in gates.

Because from what I seen they were trash, having only out sped garra's pre-skip sand speed. Which is far from outstanding.

Hidan was dominating Kakashi in taijutsu, as he easily kept up with him.

Kakashi is considered transonic.

Lee is not on Hidan's speed scale, nor will he ever be.

Asuma clearly was on Hidan's.

AfroMan
12-03-2010, 07:10 PM
;4404885']How do you expect lee to have time to enter gates?

It's a complete and utter concentration technique that requires prep.

Asuma reacted to Hidan's weapons, which are just as fast as lee in gates by power scaling.

Lee is far from fast on Akatsuki level.

Read the feats I pre posted, Asuma's speed features outweigh lee's by quite a bit.

Well since the default distance is 50 meters, i think that Rock Lee has plenty of time. I highly doubt that Hidan's weapons are as fast as Lee, seeing as though he run in a blink of an eye. Even if Rock Lee can't go into gates, he can just take off the weights on his feet and destroy Asuma.

EDIT: Also, I know that databooks aren't very reliable, but they count for something. Hidan's speed is 3.5 and Rock Lee's is 4.5, making Rock Lee faster than Hidan

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:14 PM
;4404942']List Lee's speed features in gates.

Because from what I seen they were trash, having only out sped garra's pre-skip sand speed. Which is far from outstanding.

Hidan was dominating Kakashi in taijutsu, as he easily kept up with him.

Kakashi is considered transonic.

Lee is not on Hidan's speed scale, nor will he ever be.

Asuma clearly was on Hidan's.

In Gated Form he is likely supersonic since he made sonic booms and such if I recall. He outsped the sand in weightless form. Gates was just way beyond that.

Kakashi could be transonic but at least he is very subsonic. I am just being cautious here.

In Gates Lee easily outspeds Hidan. Which is fine and all because it is limited time.

Actually Hidan isn't as fast as Kakashi.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:14 PM
Well since the default distance is 50 meters, i think that Rock Lee has plenty of time. I highly doubt that Hidan's weapons are as fast as Lee, seeing as though he run in a blink of an eye. Even if Rock Lee can't go into gates, he can just take off the weights on his feet and destroy Asuma
That's not facts dude.

"A blink of an eye" would be deemed speed for half of the ninja in the series.

Of course you cannot see them, you couldn't see Asuma either.

I highly guarantee Hidan's weapons are as fast as lee.

Lee in base is absolutely pathetic. He would have no chance against Asuma's chakra blades.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:18 PM
In Gated Form he is likely supersonic since he made sonic booms and such if I recall. He outsped the sand in weightless form. Gates was just way beyond that.

Kakashi could be transonic but at least he is very subsonic. I am just being cautious here.

In Gates Lee easily outspeds Hidan. Which is fine and all because it is limited time.

Actually Hidan isn't as fast as Kakashi.
Lee in gates is supersonic? That's way off dude.

Do you debate regularly? You listed no speed features against any outstanding ninja that Lee has fought.

By your logic, Lee in gates could kill Kakashi, whom has reacted to Deva Path blitzes and rofl stomped multiple paths alone.

I'm not going to reply to you, you do not have a clear logic of the speed scaling in this manga.

Hidan is slightly slower than Kakashi. But that didn't matter considering his weapon is just as fast.

Gai had issues with 30% Kisame, 100% Kisame is considered supersonic. He had to enter gates just to destroy a fodder clone of Kisame.

Lee will never reach supersonic speed.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:20 PM
;4404986']That's not facts dude.

"A blink of an eye" would be deemed speed for half of the ninja in the series.

Of course you cannot see them, you couldn't see Asuma either.

I highly guarantee Hidan's weapons are as fast as lee.

Lee in base is absolutely pathetic. He would have no chance against Asuma's chakra blades.
Show me proof that Hidan's weapons are as fast as Lee. Show me the Manga chapter and and page number.

Lee in base isn't pathetic at all. In Part 1, Gaara's Shield of Sand wasn't able to keep up with Lee with his weights off. Sasuke also had an inability to keep up with Lee when he first fought Lee. Use some logic before you post comments.

AfroMan
12-03-2010, 07:23 PM
;4404986']That's not facts dude.

"A blink of an eye" would be deemed speed for half of the ninja in the series.

Of course you cannot see them, you couldn't see Asuma either.

I highly guarantee Hidan's weapons are as fast as lee.

Lee in base is absolutely pathetic. He would have no chance against Asuma's chakra blades.

Are you serious. Hidan even stated that he's the slowest member of the Akatsuki which is pretty slow. His sythe really isn't that fast, hell I could probably dodge it. Anyway as I said in my previous post, Hidan's speed in the databook is 3.5 and Lee's is 4.5 Making Lee faster than Hidan. Asuma's is 4.5 So there equivalent in speed in there bases. But I just can't see Asuma beating Rock Lee. His blades could never hit Lee

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:24 PM
Show me proof that Hidan's weapons are as fast as Lee. Show me the Manga chapter and and page number.

Lee in base isn't pathetic at all. In Part 1, Gaara's Shield of Sand wasn't able to keep up with Lee with his weights off. Sasuke also had an inability to keep up with Lee when he first fought Lee. Use some logic before you post comments.
Name a page in a chapter where Lee's speed clearly outweighs Hidan's. Passing sand shield is not good enough.

Logic? I posted multiple times with speed features for Asuma.

Read them before you insult me, kid.

Lee's speed features are against pre-skip sand speed? Yes, that's pathetic. He never fought a ninja outside the genin rank. His speed is in no way impressive, nor does he have any documented outstanding speed features.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:25 PM
;4405024'] Lee in gates is supersonic? That's way off dude.

Now how is it way off? Gates being supersonic?

;4405024'] By your logic, Lee in gates could kill Kakashi, whom has reacted to Deva Path blitzes and rofl stomped multiple paths alone.

You are going off on a major assumption there buddy. I never said that at all. Recall Preskip Kakashi had to use Sharingan to track Gated Lee in speed. Mind you Kakash in Postskip should be able to do that with ease.

;4405024'] Gai had issues with 30% Kisame, 100% Kisame is considered supersonic. He had to enter gates just to destroy a fodder clone of Kisame.

100% Kisame being supersonic? In Movement? I am not sure. In reactions? Yes most likely. 6 Gated Gai as a supersonic+ character was making frictions. Kisame himself said it was very rare, it casts doubt on Kisame being supersonic in base movement unless in his fish form fusion in the water in speed.

;4405024'] Lee will never reach supersonic speed.

In Gates he has if he hasn't in preskip he has in postskip in scaling.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:26 PM
Are you serious. Hidan even stated that he's the slowest member of the Akatsuki which is pretty slow. His sythe really isn't that fast, hell I could probably dodge it. Anyway as I said in my previous post, Hidan's speed in the databook is 3.5 and Lee's is 4.5 Making Lee faster than Hidan. Asuma's is 4.5 So there equivalent in speed in there bases. But I just can't see Asuma beating Rock Lee. His blades could never hit Lee
Your facts are dialogue and databook referances?

Yeah, and I can dodge a bullet.

Take your fail power scaling theory and leave.

Major assumption? You're putting Lee, in 5 gates, among the fastest ninja in the world. Kisame, Itachi, Kakashi, Killer Bee, Jiraiya, A, Sasuke, Deva Path, Naruto. These are supersonic ninja. Your entire theory is a complete and utter fail. Lee will never be in the same speed class as these.

This is all based off his ability to out speed moving sand.... what are talking about?! He couldn't even break a sand shield.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:26 PM
;4405077']Name a page in a chapter where Lee's speed clearly outweighs Hidan's. Passing sand shield is not good enough.

Logic? I posted multiple times with speed features for Asuma.

Read them before you insult me, kid.

Lee's speed features are against pre-skip sand speed? Yes, that's pathetic. He never fought a ninja outside the genin rank. His speed is in no way impressive, nor does he have any documented outstanding speed features.
If you read the part of the Manga where Lee fought Sasuke and where Lee fought Sasuke, there's your proof. Now, prove to me that Hidan's weapons are faster. Give me a Manga scan please. If you don't have one, then I will count it as a No Limits Fallacy.

Lee is much faster.

I wasn't insulting you. You really need to use logic and common sense before you post. And by logic and common sense, read. The. Manga.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:30 PM
If you read the part of the Manga where Lee fought Sasuke and where Lee fought Sasuke, there's your proof. Now, prove to me that Hidan's weapons are faster. Give me a Manga scan please. If you don't have one, then I will count it as a No Limits Fallacy.

Lee is much faster.

I wasn't insulting you. You really need to use logic and common sense before you post. And by logic and common sense, read. The. Manga.
I read.

Your entire theory is based off of a fight with Gaara's pre-skip sand speed.

Dude, that's slow as hell.

You have no points at all Lolz.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:31 PM
Gated Lee made sonic booms thats good enough for me. Mind you Gates is a major speed upgrade so there is nothing wrong with that. Rock Lee and still is sub par in everything else.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:33 PM
;4405129']I read.

Your entire theory is based off of a fight with Gaara's pre-skip sand speed.

Dude, that's slow as hell.
That isn't slow at all. All of this was when Lee was only in his base forms. When he entered in his gates, he only appeared as multiple flashes, appearing all over the room. And this was in Part 1.

I assume that his speed has increased dramatically during Part 2.

You have your opinion and I have mine. And your opinion is a massive fail, because you have yet to show me any proof of Hidan's weapons being as fast or ever faster than Lee.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:33 PM
Gated Lee made sonic booms thats good enough for me. Mind you Gates is a major speed upgrade so there is nothing wrong with that. Rock Lee and still is sub par in everything else.
Sonic booms?

No, that's not good enough.

Until he keeps up with ninja ranked Akatsuki level, as Asuma did, then he's a fodder genin with peek sonic speed in gates.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:37 PM
That isn't slow at all. All of this was when Lee was only in his base forms. When he entered in his gates, he only appeared as multiple flashes, appearing all over the room. And this was in Part 1.

I assume that his speed has increased dramatically during Part 2.

You have your opinion and I have mine. And your opinion is a massive fail, because you have yet to show me any proof of Hidan's weapons being as fast or ever faster than Lee.
Flashes?

HIS BLADE KEPT UP WITH KAKASHI. IT KILLED A TAILED BEAST.

ASUMA DODGED IT.

LEE MOVED PAST SAND.

Wow, because that seems equal.

I've never called anyone in idiot in a debate, but kid, you're a dolt.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:37 PM
;4405159']Sonic booms?

No, that's not good enough.

Until he keeps up with ninja ranked Akatsuki level, as Asuma did, then he's a fodder genin with peek sonic speed in gates.
You have no idea how fast Sonic booms are do you? A Sonic boom is the sound associated with sound waves created by Supersonic speed. In other words, Lee is Supersonic, maybe even faster. Asuma has yet to reach supersonic.

Just because Hidan is an S-ranked ninja, doesn't mean he's automatically faster. You need proof from the manga to explain how Hidan is faster. Otherwise, it's a No Limits Fallacy.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:38 PM
;4405159']Sonic booms?

No, that's not good enough.

Until he keeps up with ninja ranked Akatsuki level, as Asuma did, then he's a fodder genin with peek sonic speed in gates.

Considering that Kishimoto has made references to 6 Gated Gai has supersonic+ confirmed for real and does use booms sometimes as actually intended I say its plausible.

Anyway there is no reason why Hidan and Asuma is as fast as Kakashi therefore its not a problem at all. Hidan had the skill and the reflexes to keep up with Kakashi and put him at bay.



Anyway here is the most important thing here. Regardless of anything we all know that Rock Lee is more likely to lose Asuma in weightless or base form so what is the problem?

AfroMan
12-03-2010, 07:39 PM
;4405093']Your facts are dialogue and databook referances?

Yeah, and I can dodge a bullet.

Take your fail power scaling theory and leave.

Major assumption? You're putting Lee, in 5 gates, among the fastest ninja in the world. Kisame, Itachi, Kakashi, Killer Bee, Jiraiya, A, Sasuke, Deva Path, Naruto. These are supersonic ninja. Your entire theory is a complete and utter fail. Lee will never be in the same speed class as these.

This is all based off his ability to out speed moving sand.... what are talking about?! He couldn't even break a sand shield.

Rock lee IS one of the fastest ninja in the world. Pretty much what you're saying is that Asuma could block and dodge any attack from any person in Naruto.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:41 PM
;4405179']Flashes?

HIS BLADE KEPT UP WITH KAKASHI. IT KILLED A TAILED BEAST.

ASUMA DODGED IT.

LEE MOVED PAST SAND.

Wow, because that seems equal.

I've never called anyone in idiot in a debate, but kid, you're a dolt.
Reaction speed=/=running speed. Besides, what makes you think Kakashi was moving at his full speed? Give me proof of Kakashi moving at his full speed please.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Considering that Kishimoto has made references to 6 Gated Gai has supersonic+ confirmed for real and does use booms sometimes as actually intended I say its plausible.

Anyway there is no reason why Hidan and Asuma is as fast as Kakashi therefore its not a problem at all. Hidan had the skill and the reflexes to keep up with Kakashi and put him at bay.



Anyway here is the most important thing here. Regardless of anything we all know that Rock Lee is more likely to lose Asuma in weightless or base form so what is the problem?
Kishimoto also wrote the databook that placed Kimimaro on the same speed scale as Sasuke, Jiraiya, and Itachi. Fail? yes. Databooks are weak support at most.

There is no problem. Lee simply is not supersonic, in any form.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Reaction speed=/=running speed. Besides, what makes you think Kakashi was moving at his full speed? Give me proof of Kakashi moving at his full speed please.
Are you serious?

He was being chased by multiple hearts, blowing fireballs, electricity and air that destroyed pure stone. And a giant blade that was wall busting from afar. And he was nearly killed.

Would you slow down?

No.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:43 PM
;4405212']Kishimoto also wrote the databook that placed Kimimaro on the same speed scale as Sasuke, Jiraiya, and Itachi. Fail? yes. Databooks are weak support at most.

There is no problem. Lee simply is not supersonic, in any form.
Databooks are full of crap, garbage, and fail. They are irrelevant, because fanwanker Morning Tiger tried to use the Databooks as proof to assume that Neji is faster than Naruto.

Yes he is. Lee created Sonic Booms. Sonic Booms are created when you reach Supersonic speed. Therefore, Lee is Supersonic.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:45 PM
;4405212']Kishimoto also wrote the databook that placed Kimimaro on the same speed scale as Sasuke, Jiraiya, and Itachi. Fail? yes. Databooks are weak support at most.

There is no problem. Lee simply is not supersonic, in any form.

I can see you are still impatient as ever as in many months ago.

But anyway.

That is not a good comparison because databook is a secondary canon source of material which is subject to more BS and interpretation while manga is a primary canon. I know not all booms are sonic booms but Kishimoto from his art tried to make it like he was. Like I said Rock Lee was always fast for a genin. In Post Skip he should be much faster although hype so him being supersonic in gated form at least in post skip is not blasphemy at all. I mean it doesn't guarantee he is going to win against Kisame or top tier ninjas anyway at all.

I mean 6 Gated Gai and 7 Gated Gai although having shown speed feats isn't going to win in general against Pain. Pain can easily react to him.

[Shikamaru]
12-03-2010, 07:46 PM
Databooks are full of crap, garbage, and fail. They are irrelevant, because fanwanker Morning Tiger tried to use the Databooks as proof to assume that Neji is faster than Naruto.

Yes he is. Lee created Sonic Booms. Sonic Booms are created when you reach Supersonic speed. Therefore, Lee is Supersonic.
Sonic booms?

Jiraiya, Deva Path, Naruto, Itachi, Kisame, A, KB, Madara nor Sasuke never created any sonic booms. They're all supersonic.

The booms were from the chakra punches being released onto Gaara's sand shield. That's what happens when you literally release all of your potential. It looks exactly the same when Gai does it.

Kakashi easily reacted to Pain. Making him, by your logic, above Gai in 7 gate's speed.

tyrell4life194
12-03-2010, 07:49 PM
;4405246']Sonic booms?

Jiraiya, Deva Path, Naruto, Itachi, Kisame, A, KB, Madara nor Sasuke never created any sonic booms. They're all supersonic.

The booms were from the chakra punches being released onto Gaara's sand shield. That's what happens when you literally release all of your potential. It looks exactly the same when Gai does it.
And? So is Lee. Besides, Manga tends to slow everything down. Even the fastest of characters in Manga never created Sonic Booms, yet they range from Hypersonic-Relavistic speeds.

Again, Lee is Supersonic. He has Supersonic attack speed, and running speed. He was able to create multiple flashes everywhere in the room he was fighting Gaara in.

321zigzag3
12-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Instead of arguing on speed here since Kishimoto probably never cared most of it anyway lets first agree that on majoriy Asuma wins.

[Shikamaru]
12-04-2010, 12:54 PM
And? So is Lee. Besides, Manga tends to slow everything down. Even the fastest of characters in Manga never created Sonic Booms, yet they range from Hypersonic-Relavistic speeds.

Again, Lee is Supersonic. He has Supersonic attack speed, and running speed. He was able to create multiple flashes everywhere in the room he was fighting Gaara in.
Once again, flashes mean nothing.

There are dozens of ninja who reach the speeds you're claiming in the manga. None of them created flashes or sonic booms. You're theory has no background. The aura of chakra and strength enhancement of the gates created these so called flashes and booms.

In contrast, by your power scaling, Lee could destroy nearly half the Akatsuki alone out of pure speed feats.

He's not supersonic.

tyrell4life194
12-04-2010, 01:36 PM
;4408585']Once again, flashes mean nothing.

There are dozens of ninja who reach the speeds you're claiming in the manga. None of them created flashes or sonic booms. You're theory has no background. The aura of chakra and strength enhancement of the gates created these so called flashes and booms.

In contrast, by your power scaling, Lee could destroy nearly half the Akatsuki alone out of pure speed feats.

He's not supersonic.
Prove that flashes mean nothing. If you can't see an opponent, then you can't just assume that a flash is nothing. That's retarded.

Then bring me a list of those ninja from the Manga please.

Wrong. The Akatsuki has abilities that can help them avoid Lee's speed. Take Kakuzu for example. His five hearts enables him to use 5 different elements. Also, Hidan is fast enough to keep up with Kakashi. See my point?

Proof he isn't Supersonic please.

[Shikamaru]
12-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Prove that flashes mean nothing. If you can't see an opponent, then you can't just assume that a flash is nothing. That's retarded.

Then bring me a list of those ninja from the Manga please.

Wrong. The Akatsuki has abilities that can help them avoid Lee's speed. Take Kakuzu for example. His five hearts enables him to use 5 different elements. Also, Hidan is fast enough to keep up with Kakashi. See my point?

Proof he isn't Supersonic please.
No, they can't.

Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara and Zetsu cannot counter supersonic speed.

Kakashi is transonic, Hidan is sonic.

See my point?

I listed them multiple times. Look up the damn screen dude. No other supersonic ninja showed these so called flashes or sonic booms. As I've said over and over. Yet you continue to repeat trash.

Lee is not supersonic.

tyrell4life194
12-04-2010, 01:59 PM
;4408958']No, they can't.

Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara and Zetsu cannot counter supersonic speed.

Kakashi is transonic, Hidan is sonic.

See my point?

I listed them multiple times. Look up the damn screen dude. No other supersonic ninja showed these so called flashes or sonic booms. As I've said over and over. Yet you continue to repeat trash.

Lee is not supersonic.
Kakuzu and Hidan fought on par with Kakashi who is Supersonic. Deidara also fought on par with Sasuke who is Supersonic. Deidara barely avoided Sasuke whom speedblitzed Tobi. Zetsu? There are thousands of them. Sasori? Puppetmasters rarely ever move when they fight.

Wrong. Kakashi is Supersonic try again. And? Hidan still kept up with Kakashi. Your point?

No need to get angry. And no trolling on someone just because I keep on repeating "trash." You fail to provide me ANY proof that Asuma is faster than Rock Lee.

Yes he is. I've told you this multiple times, and I even proved it to you. Learn to read my comments.

Kuromaki
12-04-2010, 02:20 PM
Unless you can prove that someone is supersonic you shouldn't be making the claims that they are, or at least say something like "arguably" supersonic.

Why not use speed comparison? Much easier than arguing over baseless claims.

tyrell4life194
12-04-2010, 02:22 PM
Unless you can prove that someone is supersonic you shouldn't be making the claims that they are, or at least say something like "arguably" supersonic.

Why not use speed comparison? Much easier than arguing over baseless claims.
Good point.

I tried that, he wouldn't listen.

[Shikamaru]
12-06-2010, 12:49 PM
Kakuzu and Hidan fought on par with Kakashi who is Supersonic. Deidara also fought on par with Sasuke who is Supersonic. Deidara barely avoided Sasuke whom speedblitzed Tobi. Zetsu? There are thousands of them. Sasori? Puppetmasters rarely ever move when they fight.

Wrong. Kakashi is Supersonic try again. And? Hidan still kept up with Kakashi. Your point?

No need to get angry. And no trolling on someone just because I keep on repeating "trash." You fail to provide me ANY proof that Asuma is faster than Rock Lee.

Yes he is. I've told you this multiple times, and I even proved it to you. Learn to read my comments.
And--- yet, neither Kakuzu or Hidan or Kakashi have shown sonic booms or flashes.

Kakuzu is transonic, Kakashi is transonic, Hidan is sonic.

Lee is below this. Why? Because you have no proof of any other supersonic ninja creating these booms.

Once again, all of your points make absolutely no sense in the fact that none of them have shown similar booms or flashes, from which you consider Lee supersonic.

I do listen, you simply suck at proving a point. Flash ooo wowww, means nothing, boom, that's called physical strength.

@Kuromaki: He doesn't use speed comparisons, because he has no logical features.

Kakashi supersonic, my ass.

That's almost as bad as thinking Lee is supersonic.

At any rate, Asuma has still shown better speed features than Lee in gates.

tyrell4life194
12-06-2010, 03:28 PM
;4420959']And--- yet, neither Kakuzu or Hidan or Kakashi have shown sonic booms or flashes.

Kakuzu is transonic, Kakashi is transonic, Hidan is sonic.

Lee is below this. Why? Because you have no proof of any other supersonic ninja creating these booms.

Once again, all of your points make absolutely no sense in the fact that none of them have shown similar booms or flashes, from which you consider Lee supersonic.

I do listen, you simply suck at proving a point. Flash ooo wowww, means nothing, boom, that's called physical strength.

@Kuromaki: He doesn't use speed comparisons, because he has no logical features.

Kakashi supersonic, my ass.

That's almost as bad as thinking Lee is supersonic.

At any rate, Asuma has still shown better speed features than Lee in gates.
Wrong again. Kakashi is Supersonic. He's much faster than Base Form Gai. Also, Kakuzu kept up with Kakashi, and so did Hidan. Not good enough? Hidan also fought on par with Asuma and kept up with him. Kakuzu appeared in front of Choji in a blink of an eye, and slammed him into a tree. All of these are impressive speed feats.

Wrong again. Lee has shown flashes all over the room when he faced Gaara in Gated Form. Besides, Manga slows everything down. There are many Anime characters who are Supersonic or Hypersonic who didn't create Sonic Booms with their running speed.

Kuromaki
12-06-2010, 03:29 PM
What are Asuma's best speed feats?

tyrell4life194
12-06-2010, 03:31 PM
;4420959']And--- yet, neither Kakuzu or Hidan or Kakashi have shown sonic booms or flashes.

Kakuzu is transonic, Kakashi is transonic, Hidan is sonic.

Lee is below this. Why? Because you have no proof of any other supersonic ninja creating these booms.

Once again, all of your points make absolutely no sense in the fact that none of them have shown similar booms or flashes, from which you consider Lee supersonic.

I do listen, you simply suck at proving a point. Flash ooo wowww, means nothing, boom, that's called physical strength.

@Kuromaki: He doesn't use speed comparisons, because he has no logical features.

Kakashi supersonic, my ass.

That's almost as bad as thinking Lee is supersonic.

At any rate, Asuma has still shown better speed features than Lee in gates.
OK, so far in this debate, you have yet to show any proof that Asuma is faster than Gated Lee.

I proved to you many times that Hidan and Kakuzu kept up with Kakashi, who is proven faster than Gai in Base Form.

I also proved to you that Lee created many flashes at once when he faced Gaara, throughout the entire room.

I proved that Hidan kept up with Asuma with ease, and I also proved to you that Lee is faster than Asuma.

Now prove to me that Kakashi isn't arguably Supersonic

Prove to me that Lee is slower than Asuma

Prove to me that neither Hidan nor Kakuzu kept up with Kakashi.

tyrell4life194
12-06-2010, 03:31 PM
What are Asuma's best speed feats?
Keeping up with Hidan I guess.

Kuromaki
12-06-2010, 03:41 PM
Far as I remember, he dodged an attack. I want a chapter and page.

tyrell4life194
12-06-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm not supporting Asuma. I'm just saying he kept up with Hidan. Besides, let "Mr IQ 200" do it, since he knows so much about Asuma. But if he doesn't bring in any proof, not only will I bring it in, I will also consider him a fanwanker.

[Shikamaru]
12-06-2010, 06:47 PM
OK, so far in this debate, you have yet to show any proof that Asuma is faster than Gated Lee.

I proved to you many times that Hidan and Kakuzu kept up with Kakashi, who is proven faster than Gai in Base Form.

I also proved to you that Lee created many flashes at once when he faced Gaara, throughout the entire room.

I proved that Hidan kept up with Asuma with ease, and I also proved to you that Lee is faster than Asuma.

Now prove to me that Kakashi isn't arguably Supersonic

Prove to me that Lee is slower than Asuma

Prove to me that neither Hidan nor Kakuzu kept up with Kakashi.
I gave you multiple speed features.

He reacted to a point blank attack by Hidan, he also blitzed and killed a platoon of Jonin ninja within seconds.

And yet- your features are false booms, flashes, and out speeding pre-skip gaara sand. This. Is. Crap.

I proved it quite simply. He was blitzed and stabbed by Deva Path, whom was not supersonic because he had other paths out at the time.

If Kakashi is supersonic, 30% Itachi reacted with ease to his blitz. Meaning 100% must be around hypersonic.

He was also raped by Kakuzu's hearts and couldn't counter Hidan's attacks. Shikamaru outran the hearts. Why couldn't supersonic Kakashi? Because he's peak transonic and had sonic Hidan hacking at his ass.

Your speeds are way off dude.

tyrell4life194
12-07-2010, 03:53 AM
;4423325']I gave you multiple speed features.

He reacted to a point blank attack by Hidan, he also blitzed and killed a platoon of Jonin ninja within seconds.

And yet- your features are false booms, flashes, and out speeding pre-skip gaara sand. This. Is. Crap.

I proved it quite simply. He was blitzed and stabbed by Deva Path, whom was not supersonic because he had other paths out at the time.

If Kakashi is supersonic, 30% Itachi reacted with ease to his blitz. Meaning 100% must be around hypersonic.

He was also raped by Kakuzu's hearts and couldn't counter Hidan's attacks. Shikamaru outran the hearts. Why couldn't supersonic Kakashi? Because he's peak transonic and had sonic Hidan hacking at his ass.

Your speeds are way off dude.
No you didn't. Didn't being the key word here, as in past tense.

That's great. Lee created multple flashes at once throughout the entire room when he faced Gaara, he was too fast for Sasuke to keep up, even with his Sharingan activated, he even outran Gaara's Shield of Sand. And this is the same Shield of Sand that crossed the Suna village in a matter of seconds. Lee's speed>>>>Shield of Sand speed. I'm sure that since Lee increased his Taijutsu over the years, Lee's speed is still superior to that of Shield of Sand's speed.

Wrong again. Yes, the speed is divided, but Deva Path is proven Supersonic, because he kept up, and even outpaced KN6, who is also proven Supersonic for keeping up with the Deva Path. It's been proven countless of times already, so stop denying it.

Good point. And NO ONE in Narutoverse is Hypersonic. Not even close.

Hmm, good point. But here's the thing. If Hidan is sonic, then how come he kept up with Kakashi?

[Shikamaru]
12-07-2010, 01:43 PM
No you didn't. Didn't being the key word here, as in past tense.

That's great. Lee created multple flashes at once throughout the entire room when he faced Gaara, he was too fast for Sasuke to keep up, even with his Sharingan activated, he even outran Gaara's Shield of Sand. And this is the same Shield of Sand that crossed the Suna village in a matter of seconds. Lee's speed>>>>Shield of Sand speed. I'm sure that since Lee increased his Taijutsu over the years, Lee's speed is still superior to that of Shield of Sand's speed.

Wrong again. Yes, the speed is divided, but Deva Path is proven Supersonic, because he kept up, and even outpaced KN6, who is also proven Supersonic for keeping up with the Deva Path. It's been proven countless of times already, so stop denying it.

Good point. And NO ONE in Narutoverse is Hypersonic. Not even close.

Hmm, good point. But here's the thing. If Hidan is sonic, then how come he kept up with Kakashi?
Once again, you're wrong.

Your features are crap, as they have been for the past 25 posts.

Going by your logic, Itachi is, considering 30% of him dodged a "supersonic" Kakashi with no trouble. The other 70% would clearly out scale hypersonic. Of course, your logic is wrong.

Hidan had the hearts helping him. He kept up with Kakashi because he had support. If Kakashi is supersonic, than so is Hidan. And Asuma dodged Hidan's attack, meaning Asuma is also supersonic? Nope. The only reason Kakashi lost the battle was because he was trapped dodging two hearts and Hidan in mid air, which is when Kakuzu tangled him.

I am right, Negato only has so much chakra to release. The only reason Deva outpaced KN6 was because he was the only one left out. Meaning Negato transfered all the chakra to that one path, increasing his speed exponentially.

Kakashi would have killed Hidan if not for the heart's support.

Half the naruto universe has either one or multiple attacks that are faster than Gaara's sand shield. Asuma clearly out speeds pre-skip gaara sand speed. Which is Lee's best speed feat

tyrell4life194
12-07-2010, 01:55 PM
;4426479']Once again, you're wrong.

Your features are crap, as they have been for the past 25 posts.

Going by your logic, Itachi is, considering 30% of him dodged a "supersonic" Kakashi with no trouble. The other 70% would clearly out scale hypersonic. Of course, your logic is wrong.

Hidan had the hearts helping him. He kept up with Kakashi because he had support. If Kakashi is supersonic, than so is Hidan. And Asuma dodged Hidan's attack, meaning Asuma is also supersonic? Nope. The only reason Kakashi lost the battle was because he was trapped dodging two hearts and Hidan in mid air, which is when Kakuzu tangled him.

Kakashi would have killed Hidan if not for the heart's support.
Fail.

Chapter 83 Page 3.
Chapter 83 Page 12.
Chapter 83 Page 14.
Chapter 85 Page 14. (This is a great one. Lee moved so fast in his Gates, I couldn't even see him. At all.)
Chapter 85 Page 16.
Chapter 85 Page 17. (Here is where Lee created multiple flashes in ONE Panel.)
Chapter 86 Page 2.
Chapter 86 Page 1.

I can keep going all day.

Ok, I get it already. Kakashi isn't Supersonic.

Yes, Hidan had support, but Kakashi was using his full speed to not only dodge Hidan's attacks, but also Kakuzu's hearts. He knew that if he would've slowed down, he could've been and grave danger, and risk of getting a serious injury. OK, I get it. Kakashi isn't Supersonic. I just told you that in my eariler comment. Let-a-go.

Also, here is where you fail. You can't quantify speed in the Manga. The Jonin that Asuma blitzed hasn't shown many speed feats. The best speed feat I know of Asuma doing is keeping up with Hidan, who is Sonic.

Lee on the other hand was simply too fast for Gaara's Shield of Sand to respond to. It was the same Shield of Sand that crossed the Suna Village in a matter of seconds, and Lee outpaced it in part 1. And I'm sure his, along with Gaara's speed increased. This is a much better speed comparison, and thus, disproving your claims wrong.

[Shikamaru]
12-07-2010, 02:03 PM
Fail.

Chapter 83 Page 3.
Chapter 83 Page 12.
Chapter 83 Page 14.
Chapter 85 Page 14. (This is a great one. Lee moved so fast in his Gates, I couldn't even see him. At all.)
Chapter 85 Page 16.
Chapter 85 Page 17. (Here is where Lee created multiple flashes in ONE Panel.)
Chapter 86 Page 2.
Chapter 86 Page 1.

I can keep going all day.

Ok, I get it already. Kakashi isn't Supersonic.

Yes, Hidan had support, but Kakashi was using his full speed to not only dodge Hidan's attacks, but also Kakuzu's hearts. He knew that if he would've slowed down, he could've been and grave danger, and risk of getting a serious injury. OK, I get it. Kakashi isn't Supersonic. I just told you that in my eariler comment. Let-a-go.

Also, here is where you fail. You can't quantify speed in the Manga. The Jonin that Asuma blitzed hasn't shown many speed feats. The best speed feat I know of Asuma doing is keeping up with Hidan, who is Sonic.

Lee on the other hand was simply too fast for Gaara's Shield of Sand to respond to. It was the same Shield of Sand that crossed the Suna Village in a matter of seconds, and Lee outpaced it in part 1. And I'm sure his, along with Gaara's speed increased. This is a much better speed comparison, and thus, disproving your claims wrong.
He blitzed an entire platoon of Jonin you moron, in a flash, and killed them. He reacted to a sonic Hidan at point blank. Hidan, whom you're saying Kakashi was dodging at full speed. You literally just proved my point.

You're features are STILL pre-skip sand speed. May I remind you the feature you're providing in the Suna Village is after pre-skip, in shippuden. In which he caught Deidara. Much faster and better skilled with sand at that point then in pre-skip. In other words, you only speed feature remains naming chapters and pages that fail horribly and simply make you look like a dumbass for researching booms and flashes that only have shown the feature to out speed weak, slow sand.

I guarantee Asuma would slice and kill pre-skip Gaara with one blitz.

Go all you want, you've gone at it for days now and you're still failing terribly with a feature that is purely baseless.

Going by the assumption of someone being supersonic due to sound booms and flashes that weren't powerful enough to crack through sand.

Ultimate combatant
12-07-2010, 02:11 PM
;4426670']

I guarantee Asuma would slice and kill pre-skip Gaara with one blitz.



Pre-skip, yes. He would definetely speedblitz him. At that point they were no faster than ordinary (or perhaps skilled) chuunin. Just like when Gekko Hayate blitzed and blocked Neji.

Any Jounin and basicaly every Tokubetsu Jounin (from Konoha) would beat Gaara easily. Perhaps not by feats, but story wise yes.

Susanoo's Eyes
12-07-2010, 02:58 PM
asuma wins just because he is edo tenseied and what can rock Lee do to him, Rock lee wins due to gates if it is non edo tensei asuma.

Shikamaru Nara
12-07-2010, 03:08 PM
This is assuming that we're talking about healthy Lee.

Asuma has no chance of being able to kill Lee at the speed that the Gates grant him according to his current feats. Until convinced that Asuma is faster than Lee, I stand by this.

tyrell4life194
12-07-2010, 03:12 PM
;4426670']He blitzed an entire platoon of Jonin you moron, in a flash, and killed them. He reacted to a sonic Hidan at point blank. Hidan, whom you're saying Kakashi was dodging at full speed. You literally just proved my point.

You're features are STILL pre-skip sand speed. May I remind you the feature you're providing in the Suna Village is after pre-skip, in shippuden. In which he caught Deidara. Much faster and better skilled with sand at that point then in pre-skip. In other words, you only speed feature remains naming chapters and pages that fail horribly and simply make you look like a dumbass for researching booms and flashes that only have shown the feature to out speed weak, slow sand.

I guarantee Asuma would slice and kill pre-skip Gaara with one blitz.

Go all you want, you've gone at it for days now and you're still failing terribly with a feature that is purely baseless.

Going by the assumption of someone being supersonic due to sound booms and flashes that weren't powerful enough to crack through sand.
Was flamming really necessary? That's great if he blitzed an entire platoon of Jonin. The thing is, you can't quantify speed. The best thing you can do for this situation is to use Speed Comparison, like Hidan compared to Asuma. Besides, you can't compare Asuma with any of those Jonin, because they haven't shown any speed feats. It doesn't matter if he blitzed them. If they can't be quantified, then you can't tell who is faster than the other. Listen to Kuromaki's advice, get your head outta your ass, and use Speed Comparison.

You're starting to turn into Devil's Lawyer now. Lee was able to casually blitz Gaara and was also able to create multiple flashes across the room at once. Gaara's Shield of Sand was able to cross the Suna Village in a matter of seconds. While that's extremely fast, we can also assume that Lee also increased his speed over the 3 years he has been training. Although we don't know any speed feats of Lee in Shippuuden, we can assume that he's around the same speed as Gaara's Shield of Sand. Although I can't quantify Lee's speed, I used Speed Comparison to get a clear view of Lee's speed to the best of my ability. I showed the chapters because I wanted to show you proof. You didn't even want any proof, you just made false assumptions that are not even true in the first place.