SM Jiraiya Vs. SM Naruto [Archive] - Naruto Discussion Forum

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 12:20 PM

jiraiya all day. idc if naruto mastered SM he can't stay in it via the fox. frog katas my but jiraiya was a master of justu he could go long range. yeah naruto blitzed a pain but so did jiraiya aka kick to pains face before could react also blinding him. rasenshuriken hit ONE out of the 4 targets it had and missed deva twice. that is not a problem here cause if your gonna tell me naruto can form 2 clone and make rasenshuriken AAAAAAnd throw it at jiraiya at 5 meters before he receives a rasengan to the chest because jiraiyas for instantly. that boiling oil bath thing will fry naruto. and dont give me the jiraiya lost to pain but naruto won crap. naruto lost too! deva beat him until the fox helped and hinata to free him and put him back into SM. plus jiraiya fought with no knowledge against an opponent hiding bodies. he beat 4 with no knowledge and one arm half the fight. also he basically beat them but lost due to the fact all 6 werent present for the attack. naruto had prior knowledge 5 summons and katsuyu telling him the pains abilities. naruto may have FRS and perfected SM but he sadly loses to Jman who wins with some pretty high dificulty.

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 01:08 PM

^Ha. No. Frog Kata. GG Jiraiya.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 01:10 PM

^Ha. No. Frog Kata. GG Jiraiya.
what is energy around him gonna do when hes stuck in a swamp

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 01:11 PM

what is energy around him gonna do when hes stuck in a swamp
Look at the distance. Naruto jumps in front of Jiraiya, and uses Frog Kata. GG Jiraiya.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 01:12 PM

Look at the distance. Naruto jumps in front of Jiraiya, and uses Frog Kata. GG Jiraiya.
prove naruto is faster than jiraiya please

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 01:13 PM

prove naruto is faster than jiraiya please
Prove Naruto isn't faster than Jiraiya please.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 01:16 PM

Prove Naruto isn't faster than Jiraiya please.
jiraiya took 3 pain in combat from close range naruto took them one on one. naruto blitzed a pain, jiraiya blitzed another. other than tha naruto was using shadow clones and FRS. and deva got handled by the fox. plus narutos non physical attacks need some prep so that slows him down more. now may YOU prove naruto is faster?

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 01:21 PM

jiraiya took 3 pain in combat from close range naruto took them one on one. naruto blitzed a pain, jiraiya blitzed another. other than tha naruto was using shadow clones and FRS. and deva got handled by the fox. plus narutos non physical attacks need some prep so that slows him down more. now may YOU prove naruto is faster?
Jiraiya took out 3 Paths in combat with the use of Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Singing, not with speed. Also, Naruto speedblitzed the Asura Path, whom blitzed Jiraiya.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 01:25 PM

Jiraiya took out 3 Paths in combat with the use of Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Singing, not with speed. Also, Naruto speedblitzed the Asura Path, whom blitzed Jiraiya.
ok your first statement is true though he held them back for ma and pa and your second statement throw it in the trash rite now. jiraiya thought all 3 were dead and that those were the only bodies AAAAAND turned his back asura caught a guy mid speech turned around off guard and chopped of his arm. so no thats not prof of narutos speed try again please:ugeek:

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 02:54 PM

ok your first statement is true though he held them back for ma and pa and your second statement throw it in the trash rite now. jiraiya thought all 3 were dead and that those were the only bodies AAAAAND turned his back asura caught a guy mid speech turned around off guard and chopped of his arm. so no thats not prof of narutos speed try again please:ugeek:
I just showed you proof. Didn't you read my comments? Naruto was on the top of Gamabunta's head. Then after Asura was a few inches away from Tsunade's face, Naruto comes in and utter speedblitzes and uber one shots Asura at the same time. The distance is FAR longer than Jiraiya's blitz. Now prove to me that Jiraiya's faster than Naruto please.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 03:42 PM

I just showed you proof. Didn't you read my comments? Naruto was on the top of Gamabunta's head. Then after Asura was a few inches away from Tsunade's face, Naruto comes in and utter speedblitzes and uber one shots Asura at the same time. The distance is FAR longer than Jiraiya's blitz. Now prove to me that Jiraiya's faster than Naruto please.
i said equal you act like he was so far both were the same distance away from each other. either way both blitzed a pain at the same distance and speed equalizes FRS misses jiraiya has a variety of justu plus fir beats wind swamo pulls him under and frog katas can go eat ramen somewhere`:D

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 03:54 PM

i said equal you act like he was so far both were the same distance away from each other. either way both blitzed a pain at the same distance and speed equalizes FRS misses jiraiya has a variety of justu plus fir beats wind swamo pulls him under and frog katas can go eat ramen somewhere`:D
OK, first off, we don't even know if they blitzed a Path from equal distance. We also don't know who is faster, because speed is unquantifiable. What makes you think Jiraiya is going to use a fire style jutsu once the FRS heads for him? The FRS is a Hypersonic speed attack, Jiraiya will do no dodging. Besides, the distance is 5 meters, so Naruto will just use Frog Kata.

Kill3r_B-st

11-29-2010, 04:18 PM

OK, first off, we don't even know if they blitzed a Path from equal distance. We also don't know who is faster, because speed is unquantifiable. What makes you think Jiraiya is going to use a fire style jutsu once the FRS heads for him? The FRS is a Hypersonic speed attack, Jiraiya will do no dodging. Besides, the distance is 5 meters, so Naruto will just use Frog Kata.
FRS takes to much prep rasengan to the chest, FRS has only hit 1 pain out of its 4 intended targets. jiraiya is faster than that fat pain who couldnt beat konohamuru who dodged FRS so if it was fired not hittin no one. Frog katas dont work when you have a foot in your chest via the instance one on one with pain in jiraiya fight. or as stated above rasengan to the chest. you've seen one instance of frog katas that when both naruto and pain missed eachother his energy hit him. so frog katas no FRS no and speed equal until proven other wise. jiraiya more attacks and more intelligence hence the winner

Uchiha Raimaru

11-29-2010, 04:33 PM

. . . We also don't know who is faster, because speed is unquantifiable. . . The FRS is a Hypersonic speed attack. . .

So is speed unquantifiable or is it?

Still, beginning at 5 meters, FRS won't be a factor. Naruto has shown better speed and strength feats in Sage Mode than Jiraiya. At 5 meters, they're going to start off engaging in close combat, where SM Naruto wins at. Jiraiya will try to back away to prepare a big jutsu, but SM Naruto wins in speed as well. Jiraya's not going anywhere. Naruto wins.

tyrell4life194

11-29-2010, 04:47 PM

FRS takes to much prep rasengan to the chest, FRS has only hit 1 pain out of its 4 intended targets. jiraiya is faster than that fat pain who couldnt beat konohamuru who dodged FRS so if it was fired not hittin no one. Frog katas dont work when you have a foot in your chest via the instance one on one with pain in jiraiya fight. or as stated above rasengan to the chest. you've seen one instance of frog katas that when both naruto and pain missed eachother his energy hit him. so frog katas no FRS no and speed equal until proven other wise. jiraiya more attacks and more intelligence hence the winner
Ha no it doesn't. FRS only hit one Pain because Pain has Hypersonic reaction speed. The FRS is a Hypersonic speed attack. Jiraiya won't be dodging it, unless you show me proof of him dodging an attack even near its speed. Running speed=/=reaction speed, so try again. Won't happen. Naruto held his own against the Deva Path in his base form, and dominated the Deva Path in Sage Mode. Naruto will easily grab Jiraiya's leg, then uses Frog Kata on him. So did Kakuzu, and he got taken down easily; your point? Besides, the distance is 5 meters, so Naruto won't be needing the FRS.

TheBlackChidori

11-29-2010, 07:45 PM

tyrell4life194

11-30-2010, 03:59 AM

Sage Mode or not, I wanna know when Naruto has ever shown faster handseals then Jiraiya.

Also, Jiraiya's Sage Mode energy, while not perfected, can last longer since he can fuse with ma and pa. He can collect energy on the move.

Jiraiya's not going to be taking down by rhino strength, he overpowered Asura's taijutsu while fending off two other bodies.

Dont forget that Ma and Pa can launch jutsu at Naruto as well, and showed reflexes that kept up with Jiraiya.
Well, no.

Yes, and the reason why Naruto can't fuse with Ma and Pa, is because the Kyuubi Fox would reject them. It's probably due to the Kyuubi Fox's chakra.

Now, lets not forget about Naruto's Taijutsu. He was able to not only kill a Path with one punch, he was able to hold his own against the Animal Path with the majority of his energy gone, and dominate Deva Path in a Taijutsu battle.

Look. At. The. Friggin. Distance.

321zigzag3

11-30-2010, 05:59 AM

Lets not worry about the real speed of FRS unless outside of Narutoverse.

For the sake I am sure Kishimoto will allow those with top tier reaction and reflexes at least to evade it a some distance.

Anyway the funny thing is SM Jiraiya is much more versatile in jutsu usage but the distance is 5 meters so SM Naruto has the edge there due to superior mastery of sage jutsu.

Uchiha Raimaru

11-30-2010, 07:36 AM

. . . Jiraiya's Sage Mode energy, while not perfected, can last longer since he can fuse with ma and pa. He can collect energy on the move.

Jiraiya's not going to be taking down by rhino strength, he overpowered Asura's taijutsu while fending off two other bodies. . . .

These are good points. Once again, you've made me question my choice of the victor.

However, Naruto could use a shadow clone or two to hold down Jiraiya at least long enough to create a bigger distance between the two to use FRS, or some other technique. If Jiraiya could get away from that, which all depends on how easily he dispatches the clones, then he'll probably be avoiding everything else Naruto has, since, as far as I know, Naruto hasn't shown anything new in Sage Mode, just beefed up versions of his old attacks.

So the question is, could Jiraiya avoid a FRS?

Look. At. The. Friggin. Distance.

He's the OP. He kinda knows the distance. `o.o"

Kill3r_B-st

11-30-2010, 12:20 PM

Well, no.

Yes, and the reason why Naruto can't fuse with Ma and Pa, is because the Kyuubi Fox would reject them. It's probably due to the Kyuubi Fox's chakra.

Now, lets not forget about Naruto's Taijutsu. He was able to not only kill a Path with one punch, he was able to hold his own against the Animal Path with the majority of his energy gone, and dominate Deva Path in a Taijutsu battle.

Look. At. The. Friggin. Distance.
null and void

naruto's taijustu is nothing but more power and if he misses his energy attacks. lets not forget jiraiya has the ability to see SM chakra so he can avoid that then putting a rasengan in naruto's chest or create distance for fire style or swamp of giant rasengan or needle jizo barrage thing. naruto lost to pain in SM i can't express that enough. he got pinned down and could of been killed any second. hinata helped and so did the fox. unless your just talking about his throw deva into rocks how can you compare devas taijustu to jiraiyas

IDC bout the distance gaara could be 5 meters away it doesnt mean he'll have to use taijustu he just has a better chance. go find your self a ruler and measure 5 meters and tell me jiraiya cant use ninjustu.

tyrell4life194

11-30-2010, 03:41 PM

null and void

naruto's taijustu is nothing but more power and if he misses his energy attacks. lets not forget jiraiya has the ability to see SM chakra so he can avoid that then putting a rasengan in naruto's chest or create distance for fire style or swamp of giant rasengan or needle jizo barrage thing. naruto lost to pain in SM i can't express that enough. he got pinned down and could of been killed any second. hinata helped and so did the fox. unless your just talking about his throw deva into rocks how can you compare devas taijustu to jiraiyas

IDC bout the distance gaara could be 5 meters away it doesnt mean he'll have to use taijustu he just has a better chance. go find your self a ruler and measure 5 meters and tell me jiraiya cant use ninjustu.
No, Naruto's Taijutsu is Taijutsu. It's not all about power. He not only fights with his strength, but also with his speed, stamina, and strategy. It's not all about power. Hence the reason why the Deva Path got dominated by Sage Naruto. Naruto can use Rasengan, Great Ball Rasengan, Shadow Clones, Smoke Bombs, Frog Kata, and he also mastered the Sage Mode fully. No, he got pinned down after he went out of Sage Mode. It was after the Preta Path absorbed too much of the Senjutsu Chakra, so try again. Well, unless you show me a manga scan of Jiraiya defeating Deva Path in a Taijutsu battle, then you can't just assume that Jiraiya's Taijutsu is automatically better. Jiraiya lost to Pain in Sage Mode also. Your point? Besides, if Naruto had full knowledge of Pain's abilities, then he could've beaten Pain.

Uchiha Raimaru

11-30-2010, 07:17 PM

. . . Besides, if Naruto had full knowledge of Pain's abilities, then he could've beaten Pain.

...

He kinda DID beat Pain.

321zigzag3

11-30-2010, 10:48 PM

He did kinda beat Pain after Hinata awakened his Kyuubi 6 Tail Form which weakened Deva Path who already had Naruto pinned down.

Nyruss

12-01-2010, 12:15 AM

Pain kicked Naruto's ass before Deus Ex Hinata showed up. Naruto could never have beaten Pain on his own.

gama-sennin

12-01-2010, 12:50 AM

At five meters Naruto will never ever ever dare to use an FRS. Absense of plot means that Naruto's SM can last only for 5 minutes. On the other hand there is nothing to stop J-man from using any of his atatcks/defenses to their utmost limit.

Naruto still needs to form a clone to create a ransengan and there is no way J-man will give him that oppurtunity from 5 meters.

Kill3r_B-st

12-01-2010, 12:06 PM

No, Naruto's Taijutsu is Taijutsu. It's not all about power. He not only fights with his strength, but also with his speed, stamina, and strategy. It's not all about power. Hence the reason why the Deva Path got dominated by Sage Naruto. Naruto can use Rasengan, Great Ball Rasengan, Shadow Clones, Smoke Bombs, Frog Kata, and he also mastered the Sage Mode fully. No, he got pinned down after he went out of Sage Mode. It was after the Preta Path absorbed too much of the Senjutsu Chakra, so try again. Well, unless you show me a manga scan of Jiraiya defeating Deva Path in a Taijutsu battle, then you can't just assume that Jiraiya's Taijutsu is automatically better. Jiraiya lost to Pain in Sage Mode also. Your point? Besides, if Naruto had full knowledge of Pain's abilities, then he could've beaten Pain.
dont care dont care dont care, and idc if it wasnt SM naruto at the moment it was naruto wasnt it he lost. you cant fight that. also jiraiyas pain fight and narutos were so different its not even funny. idk why but jman didnt have gama trio at the moment naruto did. jman defeated 3 thinking he one but again with out knowledge of 6 bodies he got ambushed from behind. he even killed one again with out frog song and one arm. pain stated with out his secret he mite not have one so get outta here with that. naruto basically did have full knowledge katsuyu was giving him intel they collected on all six like the absorber the reviver deva and so on. he found nagato on his own but then again so did jiraiya. but he had one arm a pol in his chest and no SM at the time. jiraiya had NOOOO knowledge but still beat 4. as far as im concerned naruto only beat 5 without help frim a 3rd party WITH his so called full knowledge. face it jiraiya is wiser stronger and has more variety. speed is equal until different. frog katas jiraiya can see and evade. rasengan take naruto a clone and jiraiyas just happens and he makes it giant for a kill. FRS is dodged no discussion. SOTU makes for definite win. gets boiled by ma pa and jman. gg naruto fans`|(

tyrell4life194

12-01-2010, 12:08 PM

Pain kicked Naruto's ass before Deus Ex Hinata showed up. Naruto could never have beaten Pain on his own.
Pain didn't kicked Naruto's ass. It was Naruto who was doing the ass kicking until the Deva Path used Universal Pull to pull Naruto to the Preta Path. The Preta Path absorbed all of the Senjutsu Chakra, but it got turned to stone as a result. Naruto had a lack of energy, and gotten pinned down on the ground, by multiple rods. That's when Hinata shows up.

tyrell4life194

12-01-2010, 12:14 PM

dont care dont care dont care, and idc if it wasnt SM naruto at the moment it was naruto wasnt it he lost. you cant fight that. also jiraiyas pain fight and narutos were so different its not even funny. idk why but jman didnt have gama trio at the moment naruto did. jman defeated 3 thinking he one but again with out knowledge of 6 bodies he got ambushed from behind. he even killed one again with out frog song and one arm. pain stated with out his secret he mite not have one so get outta here with that. naruto basically did have full knowledge katsuyu was giving him intel they collected on all six like the absorber the reviver deva and so on. he found nagato on his own but then again so did jiraiya. but he had one arm a pol in his chest and no SM at the time. jiraiya had NOOOO knowledge but still beat 4. as far as im concerned naruto only beat 5 without help frim a 3rd party WITH his so called full knowledge. face it jiraiya is wiser stronger and has more variety. speed is equal until different. frog katas jiraiya can see and evade. rasengan take naruto a clone and jiraiyas just happens and he makes it giant for a kill. FRS is dodged no discussion. SOTU makes for definite win. gets boiled by ma pa and jman. gg naruto fans`|(
Was this necessary to write all of this? Again, Jiraiya used a Demonic Illusion jutsu to help him kill 3 of the Paths. They all gotten revived anyway. Besides, better experience doesn't mean you win automatically. But neither does power. You see, what matters in a fight is strategy, to see if you can trick the enemy to make one fatal mistake. Pain made major mistakes that costs him all of his Paths. Naruto didn't defeated the Paths by just using power, he defeated him because he also used his brain. Just because Jiraiya has better experience, or maybe even better Taijutsu skills, doesn't mean he'll win with just experience and Taijutsu alone. You also need to have strategy, and while Jiraiya has a lot of that, Naruto uses his surroundings to actually trick Pain and take out the Deva Path. A Rasengan doesn't take Naruto a clone to do in Sage Mode. If you would've read the Manga, right when he speedblitzed the Asura Path, he used a Rasengan with one hand. Besides, even if Jiraiya can avoid the Frog Kata, what makes you think a Shadow Clone won't appear out of nowhere, and tackle him, long enough for Naruto to one shot him? All I'm saying is, you can't just assume that Jiraiya can win unless you look at the strengths and weaknesses of a character.

Kill3r_B-st

12-01-2010, 01:18 PM

Was this necessary to write all of this? Again, Jiraiya used a Demonic Illusion jutsu to help him kill 3 of the Paths. They all gotten revived anyway. Besides, better experience doesn't mean you win automatically. But neither does power. You see, what matters in a fight is strategy, to see if you can trick the enemy to make one fatal mistake. Pain made major mistakes that costs him all of his Paths. Naruto didn't defeated the Paths by just using power, he defeated him because he also used his brain. Just because Jiraiya has better experience, or maybe even better Taijutsu skills, doesn't mean he'll win with just experience and Taijutsu alone. You also need to have strategy, and while Jiraiya has a lot of that, Naruto uses his surroundings to actually trick Pain and take out the Deva Path. A Rasengan doesn't take Naruto a clone to do in Sage Mode. If you would've read the Manga, right when he speedblitzed the Asura Path, he used a Rasengan with one hand. Besides, even if Jiraiya can avoid the Frog Kata, what makes you think a Shadow Clone won't appear out of nowhere, and tackle him, long enough for Naruto to one shot him? All I'm saying is, you can't just assume that Jiraiya can win unless you look at the strengths and weaknesses of a character.
jiraiya has great strategies. no not tai and exp. he is far better skilled in ninjustu. he can do anything naruto can do minus rasenshuriken. incase you didnt see he needed the clones to make the rasengan barrage one for each hand. you cant assume a thing that happened off screen to be official. you didnt see the rasengan be made, or a clone or naruto for that fact. so no one handed rasengans. other justus need prep that he won't have if he can make clone with a spiraling hole in his chest. at the tackling thing if your gonna think like that i could say stuff like that jiraiya was a shadow clone and as the clone falls for the tackle he is tricked into a SOTU and the original gets turned into a frog by jiraiya from behind with his toad flat justu. see no thats thinking to much as these things didnt happen for us to both vizualize. so please toss that aside. and i am looking at strengths and weaknesses. i still tell you jiraiya wins with possible high dificulty

[Shikamaru]

12-01-2010, 03:22 PM

Jiraiya has shown the same speed features as Naruto.

With Ma's tongue, he's now become more agile and mobile.

He likely could dodge nearly everyone of Naruto's attacks. Not to mention having Ma's tongue and Pa's water gun, along with Jiraiya's wide range of Jutsu from afar.

I find it more unlikely that Naruto can dodge multiple ranged attacks at once. Especially considering Jiraiya can also use shadow clones.

The only ranged attack naruto has is Rasenshuriken, which takes more time to prepare than anyone of Jiraiya's attacks, as it requires shadow clones to produce.

If Naruto comes into melee range, Ma either wraps him up, or Jiraiya's hair simply entangles him, and then Pa water guns Naruto's face off.

Jiraiya can clearly win this battle without taijutsu.

I don't see naruto having prep time for Rasenshuriken or FRS with a supersonic opponent who has quite the ranged arsenal.

tyrell4life194

12-02-2010, 04:03 AM

jiraiya has great strategies. no not tai and exp. he is far better skilled in ninjustu. he can do anything naruto can do minus rasenshuriken. incase you didnt see he needed the clones to make the rasengan barrage one for each hand. you cant assume a thing that happened off screen to be official. you didnt see the rasengan be made, or a clone or naruto for that fact. so no one handed rasengans. other justus need prep that he won't have if he can make clone with a spiraling hole in his chest. at the tackling thing if your gonna think like that i could say stuff like that jiraiya was a shadow clone and as the clone falls for the tackle he is tricked into a SOTU and the original gets turned into a frog by jiraiya from behind with his toad flat justu. see no thats thinking to much as these things didnt happen for us to both vizualize. so please toss that aside. and i am looking at strengths and weaknesses. i still tell you jiraiya wins with possible high dificulty
Jiraiya is skilled in Ninjutsu for these reasons:
1. He has more Ninjutsu.
2. He is more experience.
3. He has better chakra control.

I don't think Naruto would use Rasenshuriken in the first place. It takes prep time of a few seconds in Sage Mode, and the distance is too short for Naruto to use Rasenshuriken. And even though Jiraiya is more skilled in Ninjutsu, and probably Taijutsu, Naruto has more variations of the Rasengan. Most of them would be useless in this fight, due to the distance and Jiraiya's speed. You aren't looking for strengths and weaknesses. You're too stubborn enough to say Jiraiya's weaknesses. And besides, even if Jiraiya can win, it will be of extremely high difficulty. Also, his Sage Mode isn't perfect.

tyrell4life194

12-02-2010, 04:03 AM

;4394797']Jiraiya has shown the same speed features as Naruto.

With Ma's tongue, he's now become more agile and mobile.

He likely could dodge nearly everyone of Naruto's attacks. Not to mention having Ma's tongue and Pa's water gun, along with Jiraiya's wide range of Jutsu from afar.

I find it more unlikely that Naruto can dodge multiple ranged attacks at once. Especially considering Jiraiya can also use shadow clones.

The only ranged attack naruto has is Rasenshuriken, which takes more time to prepare than anyone of Jiraiya's attacks, as it requires shadow clones to produce.

If Naruto comes into melee range, Ma either wraps him up, or Jiraiya's hair simply entangles him, and then Pa water guns Naruto's face off.

Jiraiya can clearly win this battle without taijutsu.

I don't see naruto having prep time for Rasenshuriken or FRS with a supersonic opponent who has quite the ranged arsenal.
Give me a chapter and page number of Jiraiya being Supersonic.

321zigzag3

12-02-2010, 05:07 AM

SM Jiraiya being possible in Supersonic tier stems from powerscaling and comparisons to few others in feats.

Kill3r_B-st

12-02-2010, 12:01 PM

Jiraiya is skilled in Ninjutsu for these reasons:
1. He has more Ninjutsu.
2. He is more experience.
3. He has better chakra control.

I don't think Naruto would use Rasenshuriken in the first place. It takes prep time of a few seconds in Sage Mode, and the distance is too short for Naruto to use Rasenshuriken. And even though Jiraiya is more skilled in Ninjutsu, and probably Taijutsu, Naruto has more variations of the Rasengan. Most of them would be useless in this fight, due to the distance and Jiraiya's speed. You aren't looking for strengths and weaknesses. You're too stubborn enough to say Jiraiya's weaknesses. And besides, even if Jiraiya can win, it will be of extremely high difficulty. Also, his Sage Mode isn't perfect.
yes ok. naruto has ONE extra variation jiraiya taught him giant and the super giant one. and the original. rasengan barrage is just to rasengan why cant jiraiya make 2 when he doesnt even need clones. you just credited jiraiya in you're whole paragraph. im not stubborn(i really am) im just supporting the character i believe to be the obvious winner. strengths wide variety of justu SM ma and pa good tactics. weaknesses girls genjustu taijustu without SM. and yes his SM isnt perfect but its enough to make him stronger and faster. i really don't care if he completed it or not my good sir -_-

tyrell4life194

12-02-2010, 06:24 PM

yes ok. naruto has ONE extra variation jiraiya taught him giant and the super giant one. and the original. rasengan barrage is just to rasengan why cant jiraiya make 2 when he doesnt even need clones. you just credited jiraiya in you're whole paragraph. im not stubborn(i really am) im just supporting the character i believe to be the obvious winner. strengths wide variety of justu SM ma and pa good tactics. weaknesses girls genjustu taijustu without SM. and yes his SM isnt perfect but its enough to make him stronger and faster. i really don't care if he completed it or not my good sir -_-
Ha, no Naruto has more. Naruto has Super Great Ball Rasengan, Rasengan Barrage, Super Great Ball Rasengan Barrage, Rasenshuriken, and Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan. Nice try though. No, I listed Jiraiya's strengths. I can list his weaknesses if you like, just tell me if you want to hear the weaknesses, and I'll tell them for you. You can't just assume that Jiraiya in the "obvious" winner, without listing his strengths and weaknesses. Give me proof that Jiraiya is faster and stronger in Sage Mode than Naruto. I'll give you mine. Naruto lifted a building sized rhino in the air with bitter ease, and speedblitzed the Asura Path and one shotted him at the same time. Now prove to me that Jiraiya lifted a building sized animal, or speedblitzed a Path. Give me a manga scan, or chapter and page number.

[Shikamaru]

12-02-2010, 07:41 PM

Give me a chapter and page number of Jiraiya being Supersonic.
Lol give me a page and chapter for anyone being supersonic.

That logic is a fail.

Perception of speed in manga is utter common sense.

Jiraiya in Sage Mode successfully outran the paths. He also dodged Asura's missiles, and killed a path with a missing arm, bleeding to death. The common debater knows that's quite enough to be considered supersonic.

He also ambushed the paths with pure speed multiple times, having the only thing saving them being the syncronized site.

If you watch the anime, it's quite evident as well. His attacks and blitzes are almost instant to the human eye. Quite similar to Naruto's.

The absorbing path saved Pain quite a few times, as Jiraiya's jutsu would have destroyed him.

Naruto does not have an absorbing ability. Nor syncronized site.

I'm quite confident had Jiraiya known Pain's syncronized ability, he could have lasted much longer.

Gouldy17

12-03-2010, 02:24 AM

tyrell4life194

12-03-2010, 04:16 AM

;4400173']Lol give me a page and chapter for anyone being supersonic.

That logic is a fail.

Perception of speed in manga is utter common sense.

Jiraiya in Sage Mode successfully outran the paths. He also dodged Asura's missiles, and killed a path with a missing arm, bleeding to death. The common debater knows that's quite enough to be considered supersonic.

He also ambushed the paths with pure speed multiple times, having the only thing saving them being the syncronized site.

If you watch the anime, it's quite evident as well. His attacks and blitzes are almost instant to the human eye. Quite similar to Naruto's.

The absorbing path saved Pain quite a few times, as Jiraiya's jutsu would have destroyed him.

Naruto does not have an absorbing ability. Nor syncronized site.

I'm quite confident had Jiraiya known Pain's syncronized ability, he could have lasted much longer.
Fail.

Naruto is also Supersonic; he was fast enough to speedblitz the Asura Path, whom speedblitzed Jiraiya.

Anime is non canon, try again.

No it wouldn't have. That's why he has the Preta Path for a reason. It absorbs chakra DUR.

Jiraiya could've lasted longer if he had full knowledge of Pain's abilities. But since he didn't, he lost.

Lady Tsunade

12-03-2010, 09:56 AM

Naruto one shotted Asura Path from a good distance, and kept up with Deva. Jiraiya, he reacted to Human Path - and as far as I'm aware, thats his best speed feat in SM. Naruto is the clear winner here, at 5 metres. Naruto can hit Jiraiya with a rasengan before he can react.

Kill3r_B-st

12-03-2010, 12:04 PM

your arguing is pointless naruto defeated all 6 pains alone where as jiraiya could only take 3 and that was with a huge amount of help from the frogs genjutsu naruto defeated 5 pains b4 the kyuubi was released plus he has a perfect SM form so it stands to reason that he would have greater speed and power when in SM <----its called logic they dont say naruto surpassed jiraiya for nothing yano

Naruto one shotted Asura Path from a good distance, and kept up with Deva. Jiraiya, he reacted to Human Path - and as far as I'm aware, thats his best speed feat in SM. Naruto is the clear winner here, at 5 metres. Naruto can hit Jiraiya with a rasengan before he can react.
your naruto beat pain logic can get out my face. jiraiya no knowledge and ambushed and one arm.
naruto had 3 giant frogs the elders hinata and kyuubi aaaaaaand katsuyu for full knowledge. jiraya defeated 4 by the way wiiiith no knowledge and naruto defeated 5 with none. as far as im concerned naruto lost the second he was pinned to the ground(SM or not)

next naruto needs a clone to make rasengan as jiraiyas just happens plus his can be huge. both blitzed a path. jiraiya in his normal form kicked away some dog summons(i didnt really read the fight in manga except end so if this is anime only tell me). oh and tyrell yes i would like the weaknesses i stated them in my last post but i''ll hear(read) yours -_-

Gouldy17

12-03-2010, 01:17 PM

Frost ninja

12-03-2010, 02:14 PM

all the frogs did was fight the pain summons naruto won without help from any1 the kyuubi cant be considered help because its locked away inside him no body else could have gotten help from it...naruto is stronger than jiraiya they dont keep saying he surpassed him for nothing

We aren't talking about the pains in this case, its SM jirayia vs SM naruto.
Also as far as 5 meters goes, Jirayia punted a pain path across the eyes hard enough to blind him before he or any of the other paths could even react to it. (They share visual fields, so the fact that none of the three saw it coming is something to note.)

Now for the kyuubi or any of the like, its a simple case of hair/tounge wrap into 5-pronged seal (Can he use seal? Iirc he did pre-ship but idk if my memory is shoddy).

Naruto isn't stronger per se, and he surpassed him via Jirayia lacking a kyuubi chakra boost and being dead at the time. Five meters...

Jirayia punt across naruto's eyes causing blindness
SotU from the distance he was launched...

That or...

Hair wrap
Water gun to the face

or...

Punt
Hot oil bath

Or...
Tounge wrap
Massive rasengan

Theres tons of ways for Jirayia to win.

He has a strength feat of moving the boulder, which is cool
But a majority of the pain vs naruto fight was more of a "kill pains make way for deva path" with a lot of inconsistancies and plot hax.

Imo jirayia has shown enough feats to take this from such a short distance.

Inuyasha

12-03-2010, 02:17 PM

Naruto and Jiriaya possesed the same jutsu in SM so it would be in terms of experience in that case Jiriaya wins it

Its a debate on SM vs SM not SM vs 9-tailed

Lady Tsunade

12-03-2010, 02:19 PM

your naruto beat pain logic can get out my face. jiraiya no knowledge and ambushed and one arm.
naruto had 3 giant frogs the elders hinata and kyuubi aaaaaaand katsuyu for full knowledge. jiraya defeated 4 by the way wiiiith no knowledge and naruto defeated 5 with none. as far as im concerned naruto lost the second he was pinned to the ground(SM or not)

next naruto needs a clone to make rasengan as jiraiyas just happens plus his can be huge. both blitzed a path. jiraiya in his normal form kicked away some dog summons(i didnt really read the fight in manga except end so if this is anime only tell me). oh and tyrell yes i would like the weaknesses i stated them in my last post but i''ll hear(read) yours -_-

Thats nice. But knowledge doesn't give Jiraiya speed feats, so he still isn't winning.

He didn't seem to take very long to form one whenever he attacked Asura initially. Narutos can be huge too, larger - in fact. I don't remember Jiraiya kicking away any large summons in the manga, so I assume its anime only.

Frost ninja

12-03-2010, 02:27 PM

Thats nice. But knowledge doesn't give Jiraiya speed feats, so he still isn't winning.

He didn't seem to take very long to form one whenever he attacked Asura initially. Narutos can be huge too, larger - in fact. I don't remember Jiraiya kicking away any large summons in the manga, so I assume its anime only.

He has feats...
Base jirayia outran boss summons
He punted a pain across the eyes while two others watched, and iirc neither of the three were able to see it coming. That shows feats too considering the pain paths could track the FRS and other parts of SMN's approach iirc

Inuyasha

12-03-2010, 02:28 PM

He has feats...
Base jirayia outran boss summons
He punted a pain across the eyes while two others watched, and iirc neither of the three were able to see it coming. That shows feats too considering the pain paths could track the FRS and other parts of SMN's approach iirc

he also sealed them by sticking Giant Stone swords through their chests...xD

IizHokage

12-03-2010, 02:32 PM

Hmmm.?

Inuyasha

12-03-2010, 02:34 PM

When Jiriaya thought he won not knowing they have more in little tubes that spit out pain paths or tha they could heal

he sealed the ones he killed with Giant Swords

Kill3r_B-st

12-03-2010, 02:36 PM

Inuyasha

12-03-2010, 02:37 PM

so does SM Naruto they are probably even in terms of speed

tyrell4life194

12-03-2010, 07:18 PM

your naruto beat pain logic can get out my face. jiraiya no knowledge and ambushed and one arm.
naruto had 3 giant frogs the elders hinata and kyuubi aaaaaaand katsuyu for full knowledge. jiraya defeated 4 by the way wiiiith no knowledge and naruto defeated 5 with none. as far as im concerned naruto lost the second he was pinned to the ground(SM or not)

next naruto needs a clone to make rasengan as jiraiyas just happens plus his can be huge. both blitzed a path. jiraiya in his normal form kicked away some dog summons(i didnt really read the fight in manga except end so if this is anime only tell me). oh and tyrell yes i would like the weaknesses i stated them in my last post but i''ll hear(read) yours -_-
You're an idiot. Those 3 giant frogs got their asses whooped by Pain's summons. One of the frogs, being Gamabunta, the same frog whom not only helped Jiraiya, but also got his ass whooped by the same summons. So yeah, your logic has failed.

No he doesn't. Once you are in Sage Mode, your chakra control increases, as well as your speed, strength, attacks, and durability. He was able to speedblitz the Asura Path from a distance with a Rasengan in one hand, WITHOUT the use of a Shadow Clone. OK and? Naruto lifted a building sized rhino with bitter ease in Sage Mode, much better than any of Jiraiya's strength feats.

Frost ninja

12-03-2010, 10:42 PM

You're an idiot. Those 3 giant frogs got their asses whooped by Pain's summons. One of the frogs, being Gamabunta, the same frog whom not only helped Jiraiya, but also got his ass whooped by the same summons. So yeah, your logic has failed.

No he doesn't. Once you are in Sage Mode, your chakra control increases, as well as your speed, strength, attacks, and durability. He was able to speedblitz the Asura Path from a distance with a Rasengan in one hand, WITHOUT the use of a Shadow Clone. OK and? Naruto lifted a building sized rhino with bitter ease in Sage Mode, much better than any of Jiraiya's strength feats.

The three frogs? Iirc they whooped the summons and lost to push.

Also prove to me naruto made a rasengan on his own even though he wasn't able to during the rest of the fight.
Also he didn't speedblitz anyone unless you can prove he falls faster than everything else in existance, as he was going gravity speed.

Also Rhino isn't a viable feat. Giant boulder is, but plot hax rhino toss not so much... Jirayia in base form punted boss summons to death, no chakra boost or SM. Base jirayia. In Sage Mode he kicked someone fast and hard enough to blind them, basically used his hair to crush boss summons...

Kuromaki

12-04-2010, 09:27 AM

We don't need any flaming in here.

iirc jiraiya outran boss summons because of Gamaken. Or Gamahiro, or whoever he summoned.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 11:13 AM

We don't need any flaming in here.

iirc jiraiya outran boss summons because of Gamaken. Or Gamahiro, or whoever he summoned.

I thought he outran bird and dogs. I know for a fact he outran bird.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 12:23 PM

The three frogs? Iirc they whooped the summons and lost to push.

Also prove to me naruto made a rasengan on his own even though he wasn't able to during the rest of the fight.
Also he didn't speedblitz anyone unless you can prove he falls faster than everything else in existance, as he was going gravity speed.

Also Rhino isn't a viable feat. Giant boulder is, but plot hax rhino toss not so much... Jirayia in base form punted boss summons to death, no chakra boost or SM. Base jirayia. In Sage Mode he kicked someone fast and hard enough to blind them, basically used his hair to crush boss summons...
Ha, no they didn't. One of the frogs had all of his bones broken, another passed out under a river, I don't know what happened to the 3rd one.

Chapter 430 Page 16. As you can see, Naruto speedblitzed the Asura Path and one shotted him with a Rasengan in ONE HAND. Speedblitz is when some attacks another person with such speed, that victim can't react to it. Naruto attacked the Asura Path at an extremely fast speed. The Asura Path had no time to react to it.

Actually, it's a feat. The Rhino is building sized, and it weighs multiple tons. The Rhino charged at Naruto will full speed. Naruto not only stopped it's horn with bitter ease, he also tossed the Rhino into the air with bitter ease. That's great if he used his hair. Your point?

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 12:43 PM

Ha, no they didn't. One of the frogs had all of his bones broken, another passed out under a river, I don't know what happened to the 3rd one.

Chapter 430 Page 16. As you can see, Naruto speedblitzed the Asura Path and one shotted him with a Rasengan in ONE HAND. Speedblitz is when some attacks another person with such speed, that victim can't react to it. Naruto attacked the Asura Path at an extremely fast speed. The Asura Path had no time to react to it.

Actually, it's a feat. The Rhino is building sized, and it weighs multiple tons. The Rhino charged at Naruto will full speed. Naruto not only stopped it's horn with bitter ease, he also tossed the Rhino into the air with bitter ease. That's great if he used his hair. Your point?

After they got hit by almighty push. Give me the chapter where the boss summons were the ones to do the effect.

430-16 shows him landing on top of asura with a rasengan, but I didn't see the rasengan creation so theres no proof he made it by himself. As for blitzing the path, I also didn't see any severe case of blitz imo. Even konohamaru landed a rasengan via Bushin feint, and the pain path saw him coming as well. 428 bottom of 5, all of 6. You can see the pain path turn to see him, as well.

I'm not saying its a feat, but its not as good as some others. Plot hax rhino toss < Moving of the giant boulder. Point being is that Sage naruto can toss a rhino and thats dandy mandy but jirayia's hair crushed a summon, can expand, has much more utility.

Kill3r_B-st

12-04-2010, 01:19 PM

You're an idiot. Those 3 giant frogs got their asses whooped by Pain's summons. One of the frogs, being Gamabunta, the same frog whom not only helped Jiraiya, but also got his ass whooped by the same summons. So yeah, your logic has failed.

No he doesn't. Once you are in Sage Mode, your chakra control increases, as well as your speed, strength, attacks, and durability. He was able to speedblitz the Asura Path from a distance with a Rasengan in one hand, WITHOUT the use of a Shadow Clone. OK and? Naruto lifted a building sized rhino with bitter ease in Sage Mode, much better than any of Jiraiya's strength feats.
idiot...really? no need for insults. man u need to check the chapter again cause the summons whooped the dogs. second jiraiya had gamaken who fought them alone not gama. the frogs lost to the almighty push sir. so yeah, your logic has failed -_-

yes he does. prove he doesnt. say he blitzed asura with one hand and i'll blitz your upsode the head(no offense) idc bout the rhino. jiraiya kicked off the pains dog summons in base. get at me. also jiraiya was using a multitude of ninjustu in SM and some tie kicking animal path in the stomach and blitzing a path in the face casing temporarily blindness and sending him distances away. -_- ur turn

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 01:28 PM

After they got hit by almighty push. Give me the chapter where the boss summons were the ones to do the effect.

430-16 shows him landing on top of asura with a rasengan, but I didn't see the rasengan creation so theres no proof he made it by himself. As for blitzing the path, I also didn't see any severe case of blitz imo. Even konohamaru landed a rasengan via Bushin feint, and the pain path saw him coming as well. 428 bottom of 5, all of 6. You can see the pain path turn to see him, as well.

I'm not saying its a feat, but its not as good as some others. Plot hax rhino toss < Moving of the giant boulder. Point being is that Sage naruto can toss a rhino and thats dandy mandy but jirayia's hair crushed a summon, can expand, has much more utility.
When Jiraiya summoned the boss of the toads, the summons were biting Gamabunta. Also, when the 3 giant toads fought the summons again, the more they would hit them, the more the summons' number increases. They would multiply everytime they would get hit. Now show me proof of the 3 toads whooping their asses.

There is no proof that he didn't made it by himself. Also, there is no proof that he even used shadow clone jutsu to form the Rasengan in his hand once he saw Asura attacking Tsunade. What I just showed you was proof enough. That was a severe case of speedblitz, because Naruto speedblitzed him at a very long distance, and one shotted him at the same time. Now give me proof that Naruto used a shadow clone to form a regular Rasengan in his hand while in Sage Mode.

You can't just assume that a giant boulder is a better feat than a giant rhino. Infact, there is no proof from the Manga that the boulder is larger and weighs much more than the rhino. You can't quantify weight in Manga, and until you show me proof from the Manga that the boulder dwarfs the rhino, then don't assume that Jiraiya has better feats than Naruto.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 01:31 PM

idiot...really? no need for insults. man u need to check the chapter again cause the summons whooped the dogs. second jiraiya had gamaken who fought them alone not gama. the frogs lost to the almighty push sir. so yeah, your logic has failed -_-

yes he does. prove he doesnt. say he blitzed asura with one hand and i'll blitz your upsode the head(no offense) idc bout the rhino. jiraiya kicked off the pains dog summons in base. get at me. also jiraiya was using a multitude of ninjustu in SM and some tie kicking animal path in the stomach and blitzing a path in the face casing temporarily blindness and sending him distances away. -_- ur turn
No they didn't. As soon as they hit the dogs, the dogs would not only shake it off, they would multiply. Eventually, the summons were getting surrounded by the dogs. This means that the summons did nothing to help Naruto.

Prove he does. No he doesn't. Proof? Chapter 430 Page 16. As you can see, Naruto created a Rasengan with one hand. This proves that Sage Chakra increases your chakra control. That's great if Jiraiya used a multitude of ninjutsu in Sage Mode. Naruto did also. He used Rasengan, Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan, Frog Kata, Shadow Clone jutsu, Shadow Shuriken Technique, and Rasenshuriken. That's great. And Naruto tossed a rhino with ease. Your point?

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 01:45 PM

When Jiraiya summoned the boss of the toads, the summons were biting Gamabunta. Also, when the 3 giant toads fought the summons again, the more they would hit them, the more the summons' number increases. They would multiply everytime they would get hit. Now show me proof of the 3 toads whooping their asses.

431 Bottom of 15, top of 16

There is no proof that he didn't made it by himself. Also, there is no proof that he even used shadow clone jutsu to form the Rasengan in his hand once he saw Asura attacking Tsunade. What I just showed you was proof enough. That was a severe case of speedblitz, because Naruto speedblitzed him at a very long distance, and one shotted him at the same time. Now give me proof that Naruto used a shadow clone to form a regular Rasengan in his hand while in Sage Mode.

Burden of proof rests with you. I don't have to prove he didn't, you have to prove he did. Thats the way the debate world spins. As for the "speedblitz", as I said konohamaru did the same thing on a slightly smaller scale WHILE the path was focused on him. Are you saying konohamaru speedblitzed a pain path as well?

You can't just assume that a giant boulder is a better feat than a giant rhino. Infact, there is no proof from the Manga that the boulder is larger and weighs much more than the rhino. You can't quantify weight in Manga, and until you show me proof from the Manga that the boulder dwarfs the rhino, then don't assume that Jiraiya has better feats than Naruto.

When did I say anything about jirayia in relation to the boulder? The rhino toss was in the middle of a PnJ battle, and although it is a feat as I've said a trillion times, I prefer the feat of naruto moving the giant boulder because it shows the exact same strength minus the PnJ.

In blue

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 01:48 PM

Prove he does. No he doesn't. Proof? Chapter 430 Page 16. As you can see, Naruto created a Rasengan with one hand. This proves that Sage Chakra increases your chakra control. That's great if Jiraiya used a multitude of ninjutsu in Sage Mode. Naruto did also. He used Rasengan, Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan, Frog Kata, Shadow Clone jutsu, Shadow Shuriken Technique, and Rasenshuriken. That's great. And Naruto tossed a rhino with ease. Your point?

Obviously you haven't debated enough or you'd know the rule of "proof of burden".

You can't prove naruto DID make a rasengan with one hand. Its not shown, and he isn't shown doing it at any other point in the manga. This means that it can't be said that he did. We don't have to prove that he did not make it. For all we know, maybe he did.

However, the burden of proof rule means that if you want to affirm a fact, you must provide concrete proof of said fact in order for it to be viable. Otherwise we could say orochimaru can beat anybody because he knows a vast multitude of jutsu. Does he? Perhaps. But we can't say he can use this or that jutsu because there'd be no proof and thus the point is unviable.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 01:54 PM

In blue
Chapter 432 Page 10. This is the same summon whom was assumed killed. It's the same summon that took a bite out of one of the toad summons. Also, they learned later on that if you hit one of the dog summons, they multiply.

I just proved it to you that Naruto can form a Rasengan with one hand. Chapter 430 Page 16. Now give me proof that he can't.

My bad.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 01:55 PM

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 02:02 PM

Chapter 432 Page 10. This is the same summon whom was assumed killed. It's the same summon that took a bite out of one of the toad summons. Also, they learned later on that if you hit one of the dog summons, they multiply.

I just proved it to you that Naruto can form a Rasengan with one hand. Chapter 430 Page 16. Now give me proof that he can't.

My bad.
Thats an entirely different frog, bro. Not every frog summon is gama.

Maybe you didn't read both of my posts, so I'll say it once more.
I don't have to prove a thing, I have the benefit of assumption.

This mean that, because it is always shown whenever he forms a rasengan that he needs others to do so, its assumable that he cannot do it alone.

This means that you have the burden of proof, which means you have to work against the assumption. I've reread 430-16 tons of times. I see no rasengan creation. Show me a one-handed rasengan creation or he did NOT make it by himself.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 02:04 PM

Konohomaru wasn't moving fast first off. Secondly, the Naraka Path was too shocked when he saw that the Konohomaru was only a clone, to realize that the real Konohomaru hit him with a Rasenshuriken. Also, Konohomaru wasn't doing it at a distance. Naruto did a full speedblitz, because he actually used his full speed, and did it from a distance.

So konohamaru didn't do a blitz even when the pain path was focused on him and noticed he was coming from behind? You do realize that the path was able to kick ebisu in the throat when he jumped out, showing perfectly fine reaction feats.

Second is prove he falls faster than gravity. If you didn't know, you can drop a pin and a bowling ball and they both hit the ground at the same time. This means naruto falls as fast as a pin. Prove to me he goes faster than most things in existance and I'll agree it was a blitz. Otherwise, it seems more like fodder clearing for the main part of the battle to me.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 02:12 PM

Obviously you haven't debated enough or you'd know the rule of "proof of burden".

You can't prove naruto DID make a rasengan with one hand. Its not shown, and he isn't shown doing it at any other point in the manga. This means that it can't be said that he did. We don't have to prove that he did not make it. For all we know, maybe he did.

However, the burden of proof rule means that if you want to affirm a fact, you must provide concrete proof of said fact in order for it to be viable. Otherwise we could say orochimaru can beat anybody because he knows a vast multitude of jutsu. Does he? Perhaps. But we can't say he can use this or that jutsu because there'd be no proof and thus the point is unviable.
I know what "Proof of Burden" means. I've been debating on youtube for over 1 year. I know what I'm talking about.

Rasengan is a move which doesn't require the use of hand seals to perform. The only thing is requires is chakra control. Also, the Rasengan only requires one hand. Sage Chakra increases the user's chakra control. The proof is when Naruto threw the Rasenshuriken. The reason I say this are for these reasons. You see, when Naruto mixed his wind-natured chakra to form the Rasenshuriken, when he used it, it damaged his arm, making it like a double-edged sword. Also, his chakra control improved when he thew the Rasenshuriken in Sage Mode. You see, in base form, Yamato stated that his Rasenshuriken wasn't fully completed, due to Naruto's poor chakra control. Now, when Naruto entered Sage Mode, he was able to complete the Rasenshuriken; proof being is him throwing the Rasenshuriken. Naruto used a Rasengan in one hand to one shot Asura. Therefore, it's reliable.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 02:17 PM

I know what "Proof of Burden" means. I've been debating on youtube for over 1 year. I know what I'm talking about.

Rasengan is a move which doesn't require the use of hand seals to perform. The only thing is requires is chakra control. Also, the Rasengan only requires one hand. Sage Chakra increases the user's chakra control. The proof is when Naruto threw the Rasenshuriken. The reason I say this are for these reasons. You see, when Naruto mixed his wind-natured chakra to form the Rasenshuriken, when he used it, it damaged his arm, making it like a double-edged sword. Also, his chakra control improved when he thew the Rasenshuriken in Sage Mode. You see, in base form, Yamato stated that his Rasenshuriken wasn't fully completed, due to Naruto's poor chakra control. Now, when Naruto entered Sage Mode, he was able to complete the Rasenshuriken; proof being is him throwing the Rasenshuriken. Naruto used a Rasengan in one hand to one shot Asura. Therefore, it's reliable.

So your saying he can make one by himself?
Please do answer, I plan to end this conversation dependant on your responce

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 02:21 PM

So konohamaru didn't do a blitz even when the pain path was focused on him and noticed he was coming from behind? You do realize that the path was able to kick ebisu in the throat when he jumped out, showing perfectly fine reaction feats.

Second is prove he falls faster than gravity. If you didn't know, you can drop a pin and a bowling ball and they both hit the ground at the same time. This means naruto falls as fast as a pin. Prove to me he goes faster than most things in existance and I'll agree it was a blitz. Otherwise, it seems more like fodder clearing for the main part of the battle to me.
And by saying "Konohomaru didn't do a blitz even when the pain path was focused on him and noticed he was coming from behind," you're basically saying, "Konohomaru attacked a dude who wasn't moving at all."

Not exactly. According to Newton's Second Law, we can assume that a body has Mass (M), at any instant of time, it obeys the equation of motion. Here is the equation for the Newton's Second Law: F=ma.

F is the force acting on the body, or gravity, and a is the acceleration of the body. Now, we can't assume that Naruto falls just as fast as a Pin, and Newton's Second Law will explain why. If we take a bowling ball and a pin, and apply the same gravitational force to each, the one with the bigger mass will experience a smaller acceleration, while the one with the smaller mass will experience a larger acceleration. It all depends on weight and mass.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 02:22 PM

So your saying he can make one by himself?
Please do answer, I plan to end this conversation dependant on your responce
While in Sage Mode, yes. In Base Form no.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 02:33 PM

While in Sage Mode, yes. In Base Form no.

519-14

Naruto himself affirms that he has never been able to do a rasengan without the use of clones.

Also due to the Gravitational constant, if we factor out wind drag everything that is dropped at the same speed will share the same rate of acceleration (9.81 m/s/s) as well. This means that naruto will have accelerated towards the ground (provided he has no extra amount of acceleration added upon his initial drop) at the same speed as almost everything els ein the world that falls from the same point at the same time. So Naruto falls as fast as choji and lee if they all were to drop from the same point (minus wind drag). Difference in mass are irrelevant because they share the same acceleration rate towards the earth itself.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 02:41 PM

519-14

Naruto himself affirms that he has never been able to do a rasengan without the use of clones.

Also due to the Gravitational constant, if we factor out wind drag everything that is dropped at the same speed will share the same rate of acceleration (9.81 m/s/s) as well. This means that naruto will have accelerated towards the ground (provided he has no extra amount of acceleration added upon his initial drop) at the same speed as almost everything els ein the world that falls from the same point at the same time. So Naruto falls as fast as choji and lee if they all were to drop from the same point (minus wind drag). Difference in mass are irrelevant because they share the same acceleration rate towards the earth itself.
Wasn't it you whom said "Proof of burden means that you need to have solid proof?" You need to prove to me that he used a Shadow Clone when he made that Rasengan. Besides, Naruto was probably talking about him not being able to form a Rasengan perfectly without a Clone, before he learned Sage Mode. You can't just assume that Naruto was NEVER able to perform a Rasengan without a Clone. Besides, in Part 1, Naruto was able to form a Rasengan with one hand. Therefore, a character's statement=/=proof. You fail at logic.

Incorrect. I proved you wrong on this subject also. Didn't you read my comments from before? You can't assume that everyone falls at the same speed, because weight and mass disproves that factor. The next time you want to make a false assumpsion, makes sure you do your research first.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 02:45 PM

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 02:52 PM

Wasn't it you whom said "Proof of burden means that you need to have solid proof?" You need to prove to me that he used a Shadow Clone when he made that Rasengan. Besides, Naruto was probably talking about him not being able to form a Rasengan perfectly without a Clone, before he learned Sage Mode. You can't just assume that Naruto was NEVER able to perform a Rasengan without a Clone. Besides, in Part 1, Naruto was able to form a Rasengan with one hand. Therefore, a character's statement=/=proof. You fail at logic.

Incorrect. I proved you wrong on this subject also. Didn't you read my comments from before? You can't assume that everyone falls at the same speed, because weight and mass disproves that factor. The next time you want to make a false assumpsion, makes sure you do your research first.

Prove to me where he has done it one handed. Page and chapter that shows him doing it, not 430-16 where theres no proof of creation. Naruto in 519 on page 14, read what he says. He needs two sets of hands to do it, he explains it himself that its a necessity. I actually have proof of this, as is shown, where he is saying it. You have no proof of him creating one where it can be seen. My good sir, I do not fail at logic, if anything I succeed in finding the faults in others logics.

519-14 is the most recent chapter, in which he has control over his kyuubi. This is beyond sage mode control since he is harnessing both natural and kyuubi chakra. The fact that he can't solo create in this form without shadow clones disproves your logic that its simply base form he cannot create it in.

Weight and mass are irrelevant. Learn your physics, boy. If you have a car going 40 mph and a train going 40 mph, the are both moving at the same rate. Likewise, if you have two things falling at 9.81 m/s/s then they both fall at 9.81 m/s/s. You drop a baseball and a bowling ball at the same point, they both hit the ground at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFXXasM6ZE&feature=related

Heres is a video showing it.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 03:02 PM

Prove to me where he has done it one handed. Page and chapter that shows him doing it, not 430-16 where theres no proof of creation. Naruto in 519 on page 14, read what he says. He needs two sets of hands to do it, he explains it himself that its a necessity. I actually have proof of this, as is shown, where he is saying it. You have no proof of him creating one where it can be seen. My good sir, I do not fail at logic, if anything I succeed in finding the faults in others logics.

519-14 is the most recent chapter, in which he has control over his kyuubi. This is beyond sage mode control since he is harnessing both natural and kyuubi chakra. The fact that he can't solo create in this form without shadow clones disproves your logic that its simply base form he cannot create it in.

Weight and mass are irrelevant. Learn your physics, boy. If you have a car going 40 mph and a train going 40 mph, the are both moving at the same rate. Likewise, if you have two things falling at 9.81 m/s/s then they both fall at 9.81 m/s/s. You drop a baseball and a bowling ball at the same point, they both hit the ground at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFXXasM6ZE&feature=related

Heres is a video showing it.
Chapter 232 Page 12. As you can see, Naruto with the help of the Kyuubi's chakra, molded the Rasengan with ONE HAND. There's your proof. Now prove to me that Naruto can't create a Rasengan with one hand in Sage Mode. Give me a Manga chapter and Page number.

Incorrect. Naruto took away the Kyuubi's chakra, he never had complete control over the Kyuubi's chakra. Right now, he's learning how to control the extremely powerful chakra, thus, disproving your claims.

Want to know the reason why? I'll tell you the reason. The reason being is this. Gravity affects an object differently. A train can move as fast as a car, because more Gravity is being pushed down on the train, than the car, enabling the train to move at the same speeds as the car. If you get 2 objects of different masses, and apply different Gravitational pull on each, then yes, they can move at the same speed. But if they each had the same Gravitational pull, then they can't move at the same speed. You fail nicely. Learn some Chemistry before you post.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 03:22 PM

Chapter 232 Page 12. As you can see, Naruto with the help of the Kyuubi's chakra, molded the Rasengan with ONE HAND. There's your proof. Now prove to me that Naruto can't create a Rasengan with one hand in Sage Mode. Give me a Manga chapter and Page number.

519 14

Your bringing in pre-ship feats. Prove to me he can do this in sage mode, because looking at it thats not sage mode. Thats kyuubi cloak one, so unless you are saying naruto can shoop-da-whoop a chakra gun at will then I'd say they are two different fields.

Incorrect. Naruto took away the Kyuubi's chakra, he never had complete control over the Kyuubi's chakra. Right now, he's learning how to control the extremely powerful chakra, thus, disproving your claims.

You haven't disproved anything, to be honest. He has greater chakra control than sage mode, his control over kyuubi proves my point moreso because he affrims that because he cannot use clones in that mode he couldn't make a rasengan.

Want to know the reason why? I'll tell you the reason. The reason being is this. Gravity affects an object differently. A train can move as fast as a car, because more Gravity is being pushed down on the train, than the car, enabling the train to move at the same speeds as the car. If you get 2 objects of different masses, and apply different Gravitational pull on each, then yes, they can move at the same speed. But if they each had the same Gravitational pull, then they can't move at the same speed. You fail nicely. Learn some Chemistry before you post.

Chemistry? What the hell does chemistry have to do with physics?
Second is what do you mean different gravitational pulls? Are you saying shes dropping the feather on another planet? It looks like its earth, which has a constant gravitational pull of 9.81 m/s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_sJ15feNGw&feature=related

The video I posted this time should epxlain it further. Heres some schoolin for ya.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 03:39 PM

519 14

Your bringing in pre-ship feats. Prove to me he can do this in sage mode, because looking at it thats not sage mode. Thats kyuubi cloak one, so unless you are saying naruto can shoop-da-whoop a chakra gun at will then I'd say they are two different fields.

You haven't disproved anything, to be honest. He has greater chakra control than sage mode, his control over kyuubi proves my point moreso because he affrims that because he cannot use clones in that mode he couldn't make a rasengan.

Chemistry? What the hell does chemistry have to do with physics?
Second is what do you mean different gravitational pulls? Are you saying shes dropping the feather on another planet? It looks like its earth, which has a constant gravitational pull of 9.81 m/s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_sJ15feNGw&feature=related

The video I posted this time should epxlain it further. Heres some schoolin for ya.
I proved this to you so many times, it's not even funny. Sage Chakra improves chakra control. An example being while Naruto was in Base Form, he was unable to complete the Rasenshuriken completely, as stated by Yamato. Now in Sage Mode, he was not only able to complete the Rasenshuriken, he was also able to throw the attack. Another example was when he used the Rasengan barrage on the Animal Path. Another example would be when he used a Rasengan on the Asura Path.

I actually have. You're just too stubborn to admit your defeat. I proved that Sage Chakra improves chakra control. I proved that Naruto used a Rasengan in one hand multiple times, and even showed proof from the Manga. You have yet to show me ANY proof from the Manga that Naruto can't use a Rasengan without a Clone in Sage Mode. Character's statements does NOT equal facts.

Pretty much everything. Chemisty is central science which is the study of matter and energy and the interactions between them. In other words, Chemistry ties in all the other sciences together. *Facepalm.* You. Do. Not. Get. It. Gravitational pulls differs from object to object because of that object's mass and weight. Get it now?

Kill3r_B-st

12-04-2010, 03:53 PM

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 03:55 PM

I proved this to you so many times, it's not even funny. Sage Chakra improves chakra control. An example being while Naruto was in Base Form, he was unable to complete the Rasenshuriken completely, as stated by Yamato. Now in Sage Mode, he was not only able to complete the Rasenshuriken, he was also able to throw the attack. Another example was when he used the Rasengan barrage on the Animal Path. Another example would be when he used a Rasengan on the Asura Path.

I actually have. You're just too stubborn to admit your defeat. I proved that Sage Chakra improves chakra control. I proved that Naruto used a Rasengan in one hand multiple times, and even showed proof from the Manga. You have yet to show me ANY proof from the Manga that Naruto can't use a Rasengan without a Clone in Sage Mode. Character's statements does NOT equal facts.

Pretty much everything. Chemisty is central science which is the study of matter and energy and the interactions between them. In other words, Chemistry ties in all the other sciences together. *Facepalm.* You. Do. Not. Get. It. Gravitational pulls differs from object to object because of that object's mass and weight. Get it now?

Then why can't he do it now with even more improved chakra control?

Multiple times? You gave me a pre-ship and an off-camera. Character statements do equal facts when its from the characters about the characters themselves. You've shown me one time in pre-ship when kyuubi was basically in control anyways of a random-generated rasengan, but nothing that shows sage naruto being able to do so on-camera.

Chemistry is the interaction between chemicals. Physics is the interractions between forces and matter. Look it upm Wikipedia is your friends. Secondly, A cottonball and a Rock, as shown in the video have differing masses and weight, but, again, they are affected IDENTICALLY by gravity, as with a dense (that is, alot of mass in one place) coin, and a not-so-dense feather, as Boyle experimented. Their different masses and weights Had no affect on how fast they fell, only the effect of air resistance. Gravity itself with no interfering force, ie. air resistance, affected all of the objects the same way, and it always will. Thats how skydiving works; Fat people, skinny people, and children ALL FALL AT THE SAME SPEEDS. Thus is also the entire workings behind "terminal velocity". If you are going to deny the existance of such a thing, I'll prove you wrong yet again. Its Middle-school science.
So keep your facepalms to yourself before you start assuming things. Physics affects chemistry as well as most any other science, so stop debating and get your facts straight before coming back

End result:
No evidence shown of SAGE MODE NARUTO being able to do a one-handed rasengan, only possibility which cannot be proven. Evidence has been provided of naruto, in an even further state of controlled chakra, claims that he cannot make a rasengan on his own.

Furthermore, Physics is not chemistry. Chemistry is not Gravity.
Chemistry is for making salt. Physics is for rubbing it in the wound.

gg.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:00 PM

he cant do it in SM. it hasn't been seen, it hasn't happened. you can't assume with feats. jiraiya has shown it multiple time. only thing both did was blitz pain. speed is irrelevant as it is equal based on feats. jiraiya punted summons and a pain body a great distance with some speed. naruto lifted a boulder and a rhino. yes naruto has the advantage here but strength will do you no good when dead. naruto required the clones to create each rasengan in his hand for rasengan barrage. with an jiraiya can see nature energy so can evade. naruto can see a giant rasengan 100 senbon shadow clones a flaming ball of fire or a black swamp coming, it doesnt mean he can evade. only thing he has shown in SM is frog kata shadow clones rasengan and variants, and rasenshuriken. other than that he has no variety(variety doesnt decide a winner here folks) but to your claim tyrell naruto can't form something he hasn't done before. kyuubi cloak is not the issue here. SM is -_-
Actually he can. Chapter 437 Page 14. Chapter 430 Page 16. These 2 Pages shows Naruto forming a Rasengan in one hand, so try again at failing. Naruto's speed equals Jiraiya's speed right. Naruto's strength is stronger than Jiraiya's right? But it doesn't mean Naruto automatically wins though. I'm not saying Naruto wins automatically with just feats. He still has weaknesses. Due to full knowledge, Jiraiya knows that Naruto can only last 5 minutes in Sage Mode. Naruto knows all of Jiraiya's abilities due to full knowledge. Jiraiya won't be using those attacks right away. Doing so will waste a great amount of chakra without a sort of plan. Yes he can try again. Look at my post.

Nyruss

12-04-2010, 04:03 PM

A regular old Rasengan, yes? IIRC Naruto learned how to do that in the time skip between Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. He just keeps using it with clones because it's easier.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 04:05 PM

A regular old Rasengan, yes? IIRC Naruto learned how to do that in the time skip between Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. He just keeps using it with clones because it's easier.

Chapter 519, page 14.
He admits to not being able to do it without extra pairs of hands.
Not "wouldn't", but "Can't".

Actually he can. Chapter 437 Page 14. Chapter 430 Page 16. These 2 Pages shows Naruto forming a Rasengan in one hand, so try again at failing. Naruto's speed equals Jiraiya's speed right. Naruto's strength is stronger than Jiraiya's right? But it doesn't mean Naruto automatically wins though. I'm not saying Naruto wins automatically with just feats. He still has weaknesses. Due to full knowledge, Jiraiya knows that Naruto can only last 5 minutes in Sage Mode. Naruto knows all of Jiraiya's abilities due to full knowledge. Jiraiya won't be using those attacks right away. Doing so will waste a great amount of chakra without a sort of plan. Yes he can try again. Look at my post.

437 has no evidence. 430 it isn't seen so it isn't provable. You lose again.
Prove that naruto's speed equals jirayia's speed. Also although SMN is stronger, he doesn't have as many tools as Jirayia, nor the evasiveness.

Also BG default means that its bloodlust. Screw the plan, its raping time.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:11 PM

Then why can't he do it now with even more improved chakra control?

Multiple times? You gave me a pre-ship and an off-camera. Character statements do equal facts when its from the characters about the characters themselves. You've shown me one time in pre-ship when kyuubi was basically in control anyways of a random-generated rasengan, but nothing that shows sage naruto being able to do so on-camera.

Chemistry is the interaction between chemicals. Physics is the interractions between forces and matter. Look it upm Wikipedia is your friends. Secondly, A cottonball and a Rock, as shown in the video have differing masses and weight, but, again, they are affected IDENTICALLY by gravity, as with a dense (that is, alot of mass in one place) coin, and a not-so-dense feather, as Boyle experimented. Their different masses and weights Had no affect on how fast they fell, only the effect of air resistance. Gravity itself with no interfering force, ie. air resistance, affected all of the objects the same way, and it always will. Thats how skydiving works; Fat people, skinny people, and children ALL FALL AT THE SAME SPEEDS. Thus is also the entire workings behind "terminal velocity". If you are going to deny the existance of such a thing, I'll prove you wrong yet again. Its Middle-school science.
So keep your facepalms to yourself before you start assuming things. Physics affects chemistry as well as most any other science, so stop debating and get your facts straight before coming back

End result:
No evidence shown of SAGE MODE NARUTO being able to do a one-handed rasengan, only possibility which cannot be proven. Evidence has been provided of naruto, in an even further state of controlled chakra, claims that he cannot make a rasengan on his own.

Furthermore, Physics is not chemistry. Chemistry is not Gravity.
Chemistry is for making salt. Physics is for rubbing it in the wound.

gg.
He doesn't have full chakra control over the Kyuubi fox.

I've shown you pre-time skip, and the part where Naruto faced Pain. The proof is provided on the thread. Look it up.

In other words, Chemistry ties in all the other sciences. I never said Chemistry is Physics. I also never said Chemistry is Gravity. I'll admit, I'm wrong about the mass part. But you're still wrong. Gravity affects the amount of weight a person has. Gravity differs from planet to planet. The more weight you have, the more Gravity is being pushed down onto your body. Fat people will fall down faster, because they have more weight, and thus, they have more Gravity being pushed down on them. The next time you want to troll on someone just because of their opinion, make sure you get your facts straight and bring in real proof.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:13 PM

437 has no evidence. 430 it isn't seen so it isn't provable. You lose again.
Prove that naruto's speed equals jirayia's speed. Also although SMN is stronger, he doesn't have as many tools as Jirayia, nor the evasiveness.

Also BG default means that its bloodlust. Screw the plan, its raping time.
Incorrect. Rasengan doesn't require a use of hand signs. It only requires chakra being applied into someone's hand. It happened in Chapter 437, and thus, disproving your claim wrong. You fail nicely.

That's what he said. Besides, you can't prove that either's speed is greater than the other, because you can't quantify speed in the Manga. Doesn't prove anything. Just because Jiraiya has more Ninjutsu, doesn't mean he wins automatically.

Frog Kata.

Kill3r_B-st

12-04-2010, 04:31 PM

Incorrect. Rasengan doesn't require a use of hand signs. It only requires chakra being applied into someone's hand. It happened in Chapter 437, and thus, disproving your claim wrong. You fail nicely.

That's what he said. Besides, you can't prove that either's speed is greater than the other, because you can't quantify speed in the Manga. Doesn't prove anything. Just because Jiraiya has more Ninjutsu, doesn't mean he wins automatically.

Frog Kata.
nope no hand signs but he says he needs 4 hands or 2 sets for the shape and chakra. he would have made the menacing ball thing with out hands or claiming to be that he cant without clones if he could make a rasengan cloneless. dudemeister you said during time skip, were you in the time skip, are your secretly kishi and your bs'ing me. i'll answer for yaw,naaaaaaaaw.

nope since your can't prove it ists equal. no more justu dont make you win but less doesnt either. both are skilled have great tactics very fast and pretty strong. naruto is stronger in strength via complete SM. jiraiya has more justu in his arsenal. pretty even though in the world of ninja's ninjustu is the foundation for a good shinobi. no not every shinobi but most of the good ones. choji and sakura are stronger than most characters, can they beat jiraiya, no.

frog kata, he can see nature energy, he can see it coming. plus he has ma and pa. they can do it rite back at him. and they can see it to. he has knowledge, jiraiya never lets knowledge go to waste

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 04:37 PM

He doesn't have full chakra control over the Kyuubi fox.

I've shown you pre-time skip, and the part where Naruto faced Pain. The proof is provided on the thread. Look it up.

In other words, Chemistry ties in all the other sciences. I never said Chemistry is Physics. I also never said Chemistry is Gravity. I'll admit, I'm wrong about the mass part. But you're still wrong. Gravity affects the amount of weight a person has. Gravity differs from planet to planet. The more weight you have, the more Gravity is being pushed down onto your body. Fat people will fall down faster, because they have more weight, and thus, they have more Gravity being pushed down on them. The next time you want to troll on someone just because of their opinion, make sure you get your facts straight and bring in real proof.

Thus he cannot use shadow clones, nor make a rasengan. Point proven, gg.

You gave me pre-time skip which is useless since we aren't talking kyuubi... and something that you cannot claim since it is not canon (A.K.A. not seen in the manga)

Chemistry and physics are equal. Physics is what determines how chemicals react, at the end of the day, with the pulls between subatomic particles.

F=ma is great when applying a force such a thrust in order to achieve acceleration. However, as you said, mass has nothing to do with it.

F=ma, minus the mass, leaves F=a. Gravity is the force, so the acceleration for everything is the same. You yourself solved the entire argument for me.

All matter is affected identically by gravity, a fat person weight more, because they have more matter, but all of their matter individually is moving at the same speed. Say, you have a piece of paper, and you set one marble on top of it. Now place 4 more identical marbles on it. It now weighs 5 times as much, but each marble still falls at the same speed. In the end, it doesn't fall 5 times faster, because every marble is falling at the same speed. So, the piece of paper with one marble will fall the same speed as the 5 marble page. Now, zoom out. The marbles are subatomic particles, each weigh the same, and the paper is the bonds between them. The particles all fall just as fast, they don't magically fall faster because they have others beside them. Weight varies from planet to planet because weight is a FORCE, and so the weight is based on the mass and how it effected by the rate of acceleration due to gravity, F=MA, and so a ball may fall slower on the moon than it does on earth, but it still falls just as fast as a feather on the moon, during the Apollo 15 mission, one of the astronauts did this exact test. So, yes, if a hammer was dropped on the moon and a feather was dropped on earth, they would fall at different rates, because they are affected by different gravities. Weight=Mass multiplied by gravity.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:38 PM

nope no hand signs but he says he needs 4 hands or 2 sets for the shape and chakra. he would have made the menacing ball thing with out hands or claiming to be that he cant without clones if he could make a rasengan cloneless. dudemeister you said during time skip, were you in the time skip, are your secretly kishi and your bs'ing me. i'll answer for yaw,naaaaaaaaw.

nope since your can't prove it ists equal. no more justu dont make you win but less doesnt either. both are skilled have great tactics very fast and pretty strong. naruto is stronger in strength via complete SM. jiraiya has more justu in his arsenal. pretty even though in the world of ninja's ninjustu is the foundation for a good shinobi. no not every shinobi but most of the good ones. choji and sakura are stronger than most characters, can they beat jiraiya, no.

frog kata, he can see nature energy, he can see it coming. plus he has ma and pa. they can do it rite back at him. and they can see it to. he has knowledge, jiraiya never lets knowledge go to waste
For base form. Did you see Naruto create ANY Shadow Clones when he used a Rasengan Barrage on the Animal Path? While you figure out your answer, I will tell you that you fail horribly. As bad as Frost Ninja.

Really? That makes no sense.

Dudemeister is an annoying idiot, who got pwned by me. He's not even worthy of being mentioned.

I was repeating what you said. I don't believe their speed is equal. You can't quantify speed in the Manga, but we do speed comparisons, to get a better understanding of their speed than just making false assumptions.

And?

Naruto also has knowledge of Jiraiya's abilities, and he knows that Jiraiya can see Natural Energy. Your point?

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 04:40 PM

incorrect. Rasengan doesn't require a use of hand signs. It only requires chakra being applied into someone's hand. It happened in chapter 437, and thus, disproving your claim wrong. You fail nicely.

your chapter-page reference had naruto pinned to the ground by his hands. I'm pretty sure you moved in the opposite direction, becoming a new area at the corner of fail and wrong.

that's what he said. Besides, you can't prove that either's speed is greater than the other, because you can't quantify speed in the manga. Doesn't prove anything. Just because jiraiya has more ninjutsu, doesn't mean he wins automatically.

true, but he has better utility and overall ability. More ways to restrain and land the single fatal blow.

frog kata.

op didn't state naruto got to use ma and pa, so its just sage naruto. I'm pretty sure he can't use it himself, so frog kata is irrelevant.

blue^

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 04:45 PM

For base form. Did you see Naruto create ANY Shadow Clones when he used a Rasengan Barrage on the Animal Path? While you figure out your answer, I will tell you that you fail horribly. As bad as Frost Ninja. > Troll and wrong. He did spawn two, and unless your about to say he spawned them just to make them disappear a second later then please provide proof that he did it without their help.

Really? That makes no sense. > Basically if he COULD do it cloneless, then he would have.

Dudemeister is an annoying idiot, who got pwned by me. He's not even worthy of being mentioned. > Troll, this can get you reported. You are wrong, go become smarter.

I was repeating what you said. I don't believe their speed is equal. You can't quantify speed in the Manga, but we do speed comparisons, to get a better understanding of their speed than just making false assumptions.
> You have done nothing but make assumptions in the face of facts.

And? > He has more ways of trapping and killing naruto. He has more utility.

Naruto also has knowledge of Jiraiya's abilities, and he knows that Jiraiya can see Natural Energy. Your point? > This makes naruto easier to evade. He doesn't have anything that Jirayia cannot evade due to the energy, however Jirayia has jutsu that, even though they can be seen, naruto hasn't shown evasive feats to allow him to do so.

In annoying multi-colors

Devil's Lawyer

12-04-2010, 04:45 PM

This thread still going strong. Naruto drops Jiraiya using frog Katas and clone blitz. One blow dropped one of pain bodies. Jiraiya hasn't shown any power close to that.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:46 PM

Thus he cannot use shadow clones, nor make a rasengan. Point proven, gg.

You gave me pre-time skip which is useless since we aren't talking kyuubi... and something that you cannot claim since it is not canon (A.K.A. not seen in the manga)

Chemistry and physics are equal. Physics is what determines how chemicals react, at the end of the day, with the pulls between subatomic particles.

F=ma is great when applying a force such a thrust in order to achieve acceleration. However, as you said, mass has nothing to do with it.

F=ma, minus the mass, leaves F=a. Gravity is the force, so the acceleration for everything is the same. You yourself solved the entire argument for me.

All matter is affected identically by gravity, a fat person weight more, because they have more matter, but all of their matter individually is moving at the same speed. Say, you have a piece of paper, and you set one marble on top of it. Now place 4 more identical marbles on it. It now weighs 5 times as much, but each marble still falls at the same speed. In the end, it doesn't fall 5 times faster, because every marble is falling at the same speed. So, the piece of paper with one marble will fall the same speed as the 5 marble page. Now, zoom out. The marbles are subatomic particles, each weigh the same, and the paper is the bonds between them. The particles all fall just as fast, they don't magically fall faster because they have others beside them. Weight varies from planet to planet because weight is a FORCE, and so the weight is based on the mass and how it effected by the rate of acceleration due to gravity, F=MA, and so a ball may fall slower on the moon than it does on earth, but it still falls just as fast as a feather on the moon, during the Apollo 15 mission, one of the astronauts did this exact test. So, yes, if a hammer was dropped on the moon and a feather was dropped on earth, they would fall at different rates, because they are affected by different gravities. Weight=Mass multiplied by gravity.
Was all of this writing really necessary?

Wrong, it was in the Manga. I already gave you the Manga chapter, but you were too stubborn to comprehend my comments. I also gave you 2 more pieces of proof when Naruto fought Pain. You fail again.

No, I screwed up when I wrote that. Ignore that part, I researched the info again, and it wasn't completely true. And no, you're wrong. Force (Gravity)= mass times acceleration. Fail again.

Yes, you are correct. Matter falls at the same speed. Fat people has more of it though. Therefore, they fall at a faster rate than a regular sized human being. It's likely due to Gravity. Take Jupiter for example. Its gravity is 2.5 times that of Earth's. If a fat person (like my fatass dad) weighed 600 pounds, they would weigh 1500 pounds. Now listen. If everyone on the planet suddenly went to Jupiter, the gravity of each person would be more than twice of that as Earth's. But the strength of that Gravity differs from person to person. It's likely due to their weight.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:47 PM

This thread still going strong. Naruto drops Jiraiya using frog Katas and clone blitz. One blow dropped one of pain bodies. Jiraiya hasn't shown any power close to that.
Dude, just no. Bring in proof before you come here.

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 04:48 PM

This thread still going strong. Naruto drops Jiraiya using frog Katas and clone blitz. One blow dropped one of pain bodies. Jiraiya hasn't shown any power close to that.

Not at all from when he killed a pain path too. Or punted one across the eyes. Or used a genjutsu. Or killed boss summons in base form.

No power at all from jirayia. No no no.

Also where in the OP does it say naruto gets frogs? It says SM naruto, and SM naruto doesn't require the frogs to be used. Frogs were there as back-up, but they have no actual part in the form of "SM naruto", where as jirayia does require them and thus has them.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:50 PM

Frost Ninja, ignore the idiot. He's just mad because I would pwn him everytime he tries to start crap with me.

Vivi

12-04-2010, 04:51 PM

Also where in the OP does it say naruto gets frogs? It says SM naruto, and SM naruto doesn't require the frogs to be used. Frogs were there as back-up, but they have no actual part in the form of "SM naruto", where as jirayia does require them and thus has them.

Just like to add to this that OP say's Jiraya has Ma and Pa.
Anything with Naruto having the 2 is a useless point unless there are suddenly 2 Ma and Pa's.

Devil's Lawyer

12-04-2010, 04:52 PM

Not at all from when he killed a pain path too. Or punted one across the eyes. Or used a genjutsu. Or killed boss summons in base form.

No power at all from jirayia. No no no.

Also where in the OP does it say naruto gets frogs? It says SM naruto, and SM naruto doesn't require the frogs to be used. Frogs were there as back-up, but they have no actual part in the form of "SM naruto", where as jirayia does require them and thus has them.

Frog Katas is the name of the fighting style pa taught Naruto. I didn't say Jiraiya didn't have any power. What I said he didn't show the same skill amount of skil as Naruto who dropped pain in one blow. In the first few seconds of the fight. Not only that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to stop a shadow frs.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 04:56 PM

Frost ninja

12-04-2010, 05:00 PM

Was all of this writing really necessary?

Wrong, it was in the Manga. I already gave you the Manga chapter, but you were too stubborn to comprehend my comments. I also gave you 2 more pieces of proof when Naruto fought Pain. You fail again.

No, I screwed up when I wrote that. Ignore that part, I researched the info again, and it wasn't completely true. And no, you're wrong. Force (Gravity)= mass times acceleration. Fail again.

Yes, you are correct. Matter falls at the same speed. Fat people has more of it though. Therefore, they fall at a faster rate than a regular sized human being. It's likely due to Gravity. Take Jupiter for example. Its gravity is 2.5 times that of Earth's. If a fat person (like my fatass dad) weighed 600 pounds, they would weigh 1500 pounds. Now listen. If everyone on the planet suddenly went to Jupiter, the gravity of each person would be more than twice of that as Earth's. But the strength of that Gravity differs from person to person. It's likely due to their weight.

Show me it. Show me where Sage Mode has been SEEN creating a one-handed rasengan without using his clones.

As for your physics fail, gravity = acceleration, weight = force.
"Weight is the force that results from the acceleration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration) by gravity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity) on the mass of an object"

Gravity = how much something accelerates towards the gravitational mass
Earth's gravity is represented as 9.81 m/s/s. Gravity on every person is 9.81 m/s/s. A fat person and a skinny person are both accelerated at 9.81 m/s/s. After 10 seconds they would be moving at 98.1 m/s if I counted right.

If we went to jupiter, and everyone fell off, and DIDN'T DIE... then we would all fall at the same rate anyways, just 2.5x faster. Above that, as you said, gravity would affect EVERYONE 2.5x more, regardless of weight. The weight, then, is the effect of gravity on everything. Weight does not increase gravity, gravity increases weight.

As for all the typing, obviously you can't handle simple explanations because they are not detailed enough for you to grasp the concept. Thus, I put more down so that you could have all the detail you might need in order to comprehend basic physics.

EDIT: HEY so yeah I'll be off for a bit so if I don't post back you know why. Be back later to keep fighting.

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 05:13 PM

Show me it. Show me where Sage Mode has been SEEN creating a one-handed rasengan without using his clones.

As for your physics fail, gravity = acceleration, weight = force.
"Weight is the force that results from the acceleration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration) by gravity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity) on the mass of an object"

Gravity = how much something accelerates towards the gravitational mass
Earth's gravity is represented as 9.81 m/s/s. Gravity on every person is 9.81 m/s/s. A fat person and a skinny person are both accelerated at 9.81 m/s/s. After 10 seconds they would be moving at 98.1 m/s if I counted right.

If we went to jupiter, and everyone fell off, and DIDN'T DIE... then we would all fall at the same rate anyways, just 2.5x faster. Above that, as you said, gravity would affect EVERYONE 2.5x more, regardless of weight. The weight, then, is the effect of gravity on everything. Weight does not increase gravity, gravity increases weight.

As for all the typing, obviously you can't handle simple explanations because they are not detailed enough for you to grasp the concept. Thus, I put more down so that you could have all the detail you might need in order to comprehend basic physics.
I've showed you the proof many times already. 2 pieces of proof from the Manga, yet you refused to look at my comments. You obviously know nothing about Sage Mode Naruto.

Wrong again. Acceleration: A=f/m. Gravity: F=ma. Acceleration is PROPORTIONAL to the force (Gravity) for a body of constant mass, and you said it yourself. Mass has nothing to do with Gravity.

You are misreading my comments. I know that the Gravity of every person is 98.1 m/s. I know this. But all I'm saying is, the more matter you have, the more intense the Gravity would be pushed onto your body. Matter is affected by gravity only by the degree or intensity of the UNIMAGNO present at a location within the universe. Gravity is generated by a field of force known as the UNIMAGNO (Universe Magnetic) which is responsible of the intensity of the gravity force found at different parts of the universe. See what I'm saying? I never said anything about different gravity pulls on certain parts of Earth. It only depends on weight and the intensity of Gravity. Damn.

Kill3r_B-st

12-04-2010, 08:05 PM

Frog Katas is the name of the fighting style pa taught Naruto. I didn't say Jiraiya didn't have any power. What I said he didn't show the same skill amount of skil as Naruto who dropped pain in one blow. In the first few seconds of the fight. Not only that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to stop a shadow frs.
ok.you said he has nothing compared to naruto. he did show the same. naruto dropped one, jiraiya made one go blind. also he kicked one in the stomach while preparing frog song. and FRS is just trown out. from 5 meters it aint happening. plus it takes prep of clones and forming it and bythat time naruto is kicked in the eyes causing temporary blindness. so no no no no aaaaaaan no -_-:geek:

tyrell4life194

12-04-2010, 08:09 PM

Dude, just ignore Devil's Lawyer. Lets continue with the debate. Ignore the troll.

iDooom

01-22-2011, 06:42 PM

Naruto vs. Pain was not a particularly impressive feat. One, Nagato already used tons of chakra destroying Konoha. Two, Pain couldn't use ST for a couple minutes. Three, Naruto would have lost without help from Katsuyu, Hinata, the frogs, and the Nine Tails and they will not be a factor in this fight. Four, Pain went easy on Naruto and didn't kill him. Pain said himself that he made sure not to stab anywhere vital with the rods because he needed to capture Naruto. Five, the Pains attacked one by one without any teamwork at all, probably a side effect of the PnJ. Six, Naraka and Deva were taken down by Rasengans even though they saw Naruto coming and didn't react at all, also probably from the PnJ. Since Jiraiya would have done better, he would win.

Phoenix Wright

01-23-2011, 02:02 AM

Whoever wins, it'll be very close.

But for the record Naruto beating Pain wasn't PnJ.

The only things that were actually PnJ were things that shouldn't have happened, just shouldn't have. What I mean is Sasori losing to Chiyo and Sakura, and Kakuzu losing to Naruto.

Pain fighting the village, he actually did that and was drained. Just because he's drained it's instantly declared PnJ because he didn't beat him at full power? Read the manga for the manga, I'm sorry Kishi doesn't write it just for Vs Fights, but damn. He beat him fair and square no matter what way you look at it.

When Kakuzu, a highly experienced Kage level Akatsuki member, was fooled by a simple bunshin feint, and turned around and noticed, but did nothing but watch for the longest time until he was killed, that was plot. But can you read the damn manga, why worry about crap like that? Everything in the manga is plot, it's just the manga itself.

/random rant about plot

Anyway the fight is gonna be extremely close no matter what.
I just woke up at like 5 AM just now so I don't wanna post on it much`|(

Devil's Lawyer

01-23-2011, 02:10 AM

I caught lock jaw from giving head.

@Phoenix that is correct. To me these vs battles destroy stories.You start arguing against a character for a long time. You start hating the character and get tired of the story the character came from. But I still post in the bgand obd. I don't know why.

Phoenix Wright

01-23-2011, 03:14 AM

Vivi

01-23-2011, 04:33 AM

Pain fighting the village, he actually did that and was drained. Just because he's drained it's instantly declared PnJ because he didn't beat him at full power? Read the manga for the manga, I'm sorry Kishi doesn't write it just for Vs Fights, but damn. He beat him fair and square no matter what way you look at it.

Beating him fair would be an all out fight.

And it's not just being drained.
Pain Holding back.
Book no Jutsu causing Nagato to suicide.
Konan not getting involved when reaching Nagato.
Pulling 2 Clones outta nowhere.
Hinata getting beat up thus going Naruto into Kyuubi otherwise he'd have been gone.

Your telling me that was a fair fight when he had so much help from Kishi?
Rediculous.

Yeah, people don't read the manga for the manga anymore, it's Vs Fight that, oh well that was PnJ that, and then you don't even debate for fun on the other hand, and you sure as hell don't read for fun, you read it and think "So what feats are introduced this chapter" or because someone on the forum you idolize hates on it because of those exact same reasons instantly the manga is ;);););).

And that is Nonsense as you know I still do otherwise I wouldn't discuss it in the Bookstore and NF's library.

Lady Tsunade

01-23-2011, 04:40 AM

Yeah, people don't read the manga for the manga anymore, it's Vs Fight that, oh well that was PnJ that, and then you don't even debate for fun on the other hand, and you sure as hell don't read for fun, you read it and think "So what feats are introduced this chapter" or because someone on the forum you idolize hates on it because of those exact same reasons instantly the manga is ;);););).

OMG!! THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS

I feel that debating the hell out of all characters is tearing the plot to shreds for me. When I read new chapters its kinda like - Woah, that feat was good. And I see PnJ as a bad thing, even though its plot, the thing that makes the story good? And when someone on the forum I dislike or who underrates someone I like, I go fullscale bishmode and throw every feat I know like no tomorrow.

Kinda why I'm getting sick of debating. Its just habit that brings me back here, tbh.

But yeah, Naruto wins. In base he has better speed than Jiraiya. If he produced like, 100 clones at once and they all brought out rasengan Jiraiyas kinda screwed. He could try to summon Gamabunta I guess, But Naruto could equally summon Gamahiro or the likes to counter. Also, 100 clones at once and a RS feint could kill Jiraiya. In SM it'd be an awesome fight, but I don't think they'd get that far.

Phoenix Wright

01-23-2011, 07:16 AM

Beating him fair would be an all out fight.

And it's not just being drained.
Pain Holding back.
Book no Jutsu causing Nagato to suicide.
Konan not getting involved when reaching Nagato.
Pulling 2 Clones outta nowhere.
Hinata getting beat up thus going Naruto into Kyuubi otherwise he'd have been gone.

Your telling me that was a fair fight when he had so much help from Kishi?
Rediculous.

And that is Nonsense as you know I still do otherwise I wouldn't discuss it in the Bookstore and NF's library.
He beat him fair and square in the manga, I'm not bringing BG logic into this. Just what I said though, you're talking about Talk no Jutsu, how the fight was so unfair, how Pain held back, yada yada.

I mean in general, not that you still read the manga for the manga, I've seen plenty of other people who say otherwise. But as of right now you're talking about nothing but plot and how you don't like it as in the BG's sake and not talking about it as a manga, and being fair and square.

He was just then coming up with a plan, to be honest the fight would have been better off hadn't he have gone Kyuubi.

Itachi beating Genin Sasuke was plot, everything was plot.

And if you want to think about it that way, you could say anything was plot. The only reason Genin Sasuke lost was because he didn't think logically, Itachi knew how to counter it and shouldn't have normally it's bullcrap, I dunno, you could say whatever the hell you want.

Same exact thing goes for Sasuke beating Itachi, the same exact thing.

Unlike for Jiraiya, it was a completely fair fight but you don't see me saying Jiraiya should have won. Anyone in that situation would have lost, no matter what. The only one I could see winning is someone like Naruto, that's that.

He fought all the pains, all three pain and they had no reason to be holding back and he soloed them all, the only instance Naruto had to deal with Naraka was when he revived Preta and he died right away, he wasn't in the fight so instantly it was plot because with Jiraiya he revived all of the bodies and Preta absorbed his Sage Chakra so it was plot that he lost, and Jiraiya faced all six pain.

On another note, Naruto killed Naraka when Jiraiya stood there against all of the pains, oh he stood there and somehow the manga is supposed to be drawn for the manga and not be 100% accurate unlike the BG which somehow is?

If Kakashi fought someone naturally the fight wouldn't be Kamui gg, nor would Jiraiya randomly attack the pains, so therefore it is plot because Jiraiya didn't win.

Hell I don't even know, I can't even make it sound stupid even if I wanted to. And it also has to do with the fact there's too much BG Logic, being bloodlusted, speedblitz, all this crap. Way back when, Sai was going to assasinate Sasuke and he actually stood a chance but in the BG you'll never ever see that. I used to use that as an example but an even better one is Zabuza/Haku actually standing a chance against ninja currently.

It's somehow plot though. Well obviously, because it's the manga. It's not just that you should read the manga for enjoyment, a lot of people do, a lot don't, it's that nobody should be using crap logic, and use logic that would actually happen, if Jiraiya was in his situation facing all six pain, he wouldn't have charged and attacked them all(because he didn't it's plot because in a BG fight he would?), Kakashi wouldn't kamui someone right off the bat.

Speedblitzing wouldn't happen no matter the fight, fights should play out just how the manga would in any situation, not how some people set conditions as "bloodlusted" or any of that bull.

/random rant definitely not entirely directed at you http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/lmao.gif

Vivi

01-23-2011, 07:22 AM

He beat him fair and square in the manga, I'm not bringing BG logic into this. Just what I said though, you're talking about Talk no Jutsu, how the fight was so unfair, how Pain held back, yada yada.

I mean in general, not that you still read the manga for the manga, I've seen plenty of other people who say otherwise. But as of right now you're talking about nothing but plot and how you don't like it as in the BG's sake and not talking about it as a manga, and being fair and square.

He was just then coming up with a plan, to be honest the fight would have been better off hadn't he have gone Kyuubi.

Itachi beating Genin Sasuke was plot, everything was plot.

And if you want to think about it that way, you could say anything was plot. The only reason Genin Sasuke lost was because he didn't think logically, Itachi knew how to counter it and shouldn't have normally it's bullcrap, I dunno, you could say whatever the hell you want.

Same exact thing goes for Sasuke beating Itachi, the same exact thing.

Unlike for Jiraiya, it was a completely fair fight but you don't see me saying Jiraiya should have won. Anyone in that situation would have lost, no matter what. The only one I could see winning is someone like Naruto, that's that.

He fought all the pains, all three pain and they had no reason to be holding back and he soloed them all, the only instance Naruto had to deal with Naraka was when he revived Preta and he died right away, he wasn't in the fight so instantly it was plot because with Jiraiya he revived all of the bodies and Preta absorbed his Sage Chakra so it was plot that he lost, and Jiraiya faced all six pain.

On another note, Naruto killed Naraka when Jiraiya stood there against all of the pains, oh he stood there and somehow the manga is supposed to be drawn for the manga and not be 100% accurate unlike the BG which somehow is?

If Kakashi fought someone naturally the fight wouldn't be Kamui gg, nor would Jiraiya randomly attack the pains, so therefore it is plot because Jiraiya didn't win.

Hell I don't even know, I can't even make it sound stupid even if I wanted to. And it also has to do with the fact there's too much BG Logic, being bloodlusted, speedblitz, all this crap. Way back when, Sai was going to assasinate Sasuke and he actually stood a chance but in the BG you'll never ever see that. I used to use that as an example but an even better one is Zabuza/Haku actually standing a chance against ninja currently.

It's somehow plot though. Well obviously, because it's the manga. It's not just that you should read the manga for enjoyment, a lot of people do, a lot don't, it's that nobody should be using crap logic, and use logic that would actually happen, if Jiraiya was in his situation facing all six pain, he wouldn't have charged and attacked them all(because he didn't it's plot because in a BG fight he would?), Kakashi wouldn't kamui someone right off the bat.

Speedblitzing wouldn't happen no matter the fight, fights should play out just how the manga would in any situation, not how some people set conditions as "bloodlusted" or any of that bull.

/random rant definitely not entirely directed at you http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/lmao.gif

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png

wq1jknZp0ic

Phoenix Wright

01-23-2011, 07:25 AM

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/nfandom/yelrotflmao.gif

Shikamaru Nara

01-23-2011, 07:40 AM

Incorrect usage of the kruemel?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png

Phoenix Wright

01-23-2011, 07:42 AM

No just realized that the one I decided was better http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/6hq895.gif

iDooom

01-23-2011, 02:49 PM

OMG!! THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS

I feel that debating the hell out of all characters is tearing the plot to shreds for me. When I read new chapters its kinda like - Woah, that feat was good. And I see PnJ as a bad thing, even though its plot, the thing that makes the story good? And when someone on the forum I dislike or who underrates someone I like, I go fullscale bishmode and throw every feat I know like no tomorrow.

Kinda why I'm getting sick of debating. Its just habit that brings me back here, tbh.

But yeah, Naruto wins. In base he has better speed than Jiraiya. If he produced like, 100 clones at once and they all brought out rasengan Jiraiyas kinda screwed. He could try to summon Gamabunta I guess, But Naruto could equally summon Gamahiro or the likes to counter. Also, 100 clones at once and a RS feint could kill Jiraiya. In SM it'd be an awesome fight, but I don't think they'd get that far.
Naruto can't summon 100 clones while he has 2 clones gathering nature energy, he can only use 2 clones.