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deathraiser
11-06-2010, 02:53 PM
Heartless of kingdom heart vs hollows of bleach.
The battle took place in the realm of darkness.
Ansem and anti-sora is on the heartless side.Nobodies and arrancars arent allow in this battle.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:00 PM
heartless sheer numbers border on infinite for every class of heartless

Vivi
11-06-2010, 03:02 PM
Heartless of kingdom heart vs hollows of bleach.
The battle took place in the realm of darkness.
Ansem and anti-sora is on the heartless side.Nobodies and arrancars arent allow in this battle.

I remember that Sora without the Keyblade couldnt even hit the Heartless at the start of KH.

Can the Hollow's hurt them in anyway considering they're basically just Darkness?

Not too good on KH so sorry if I'm kinda wrong.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:03 PM
I remember that Sora without the Keyblade couldnt even hit the Heartless at the start of KH.

Can the Hollow's hurt them in anyway considering they're basically just Darkness?

Not too good on KH so sorry if I'm kinda wrong.
yea heartless cant be harmed by normal weapons only magic and magic items from what i remember

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:05 PM
Sora can't harm Heartless with normal weapons. Goofy can. Tarzan sure can. Beast can hurt them with his claws. There's no indication that Squall and Cloud's swords are magical. The list goes on.

sagemaster777
11-06-2010, 03:06 PM
I remember that Sora without the Keyblade couldnt even hit the Heartless at the start of KH.

Can the Hollow's hurt them in anyway considering they're basically just Darkness?

Not too good on KH so sorry if I'm kinda wrong.
thats true but hes talking about anti-sora
kinda the heartless form of sora if im correct
and they probably could because not just the keyblade can hurt hurt heartless

cnorwood
11-06-2010, 03:07 PM
ansem could potentially solo

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:07 PM
Sora can't harm Heartless with normal weapons. Goofy can. Tarzan sure can. Beast can hurt them with his claws. There's no indication that Squall and Cloud's swords are magical. The list goes on.

Sora could injure them with normal weapons towards the end of kh i beleive but i say the heartless win they have too large numbers for each type of heartless and the amount of different types of heartless is absurd.

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Hollow Ichigo V1. Hollow Ichigo V2.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Sora can't harm Heartless with normal weapons. Goofy can. Tarzan sure can. Beast can hurt them with his claws. There's no indication that Squall and Cloud's swords are magical. The list goes on.
squall and cloud are magic users and tarzan has access to slightly magical abilitys in KH beast exists because of magic otherwise he would be human goofy and donald are also magic users so they can harm heartless aswell not to mention these are all npc's feel free to come up with something that isint an npc tho and ill gladly accept it also by scaling since sora is considered around hypersonic+ if im correct heartless must range from hypersonic to somewhere above sora since they keep up with him pretty well

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:10 PM
Sora could injure them with normal weapons towards the end of kh i beleive but i say the heartless win they have too large numbers for each type of heartless and the amount of different types of heartless is absurd.
no their is a point in the middle where you were stuck with a wooden sword again but you couldent hurt them with it only magic and beast harmed them

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:11 PM
Hollow Ichigo V1. Hollow Ichigo V2.

They can't surive a army of darksides(those really big heartless) and a army of heartless along with ansem and anti-sora also the heartless bosses are all powerful in their own accord.

Vivi
11-06-2010, 03:11 PM
Sora can't harm Heartless with normal weapons. Goofy can. Tarzan sure can. Beast can hurt them with his claws. There's no indication that Squall and Cloud's swords are magical. The list goes on.

Oh thanks for the Clarification.
But then that's a massive Contradiction.
Why can the other's but Sora couldn't?

Until then we have no Idea if the Heartless can take Damage from Hollow's or not.

The fact that Sora couldn't indicates they cannot.
Yet while the other's can is an Indication the Hollows can.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:12 PM
Hollow Ichigo V1. Hollow Ichigo V2.
arrancar arent allowed in battle hollow ichigo is a pretty much the same as an arrancar just epically more uber since it has the use of a zampaktou and has a human form it also exists purely because ichigo is a vizard which is a mock arrancar

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:12 PM
no their is a point in the middle where you were stuck with a wooden sword again but you couldent hurt them with it only magic and beast harmed them

No that's wrong it does little damage but you can injure them with the wooden sword.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:12 PM
They can't surive a army of darksides(those really big heartless) and a army of heartless along with ansem and anti-sora also the heartless bosses are all powerful in their own accord.
ansem seeker of darkness merged with world of chaos = nobodys cant do shizz

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:13 PM
No that's wrong it does little damage but you can injure them with the wooden sword.
eh i dont remember exactly been a while since i played but yea i think your right it did barely a sliver of damage tho

Vivi
11-06-2010, 03:14 PM
No that's wrong it does little damage but you can injure them with the wooden sword.

That's a first.
Well if that IS indeed true then that changes everything.

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:15 PM
squall and cloud are magic users and tarzan has access to slightly magical abilitys

Just because they have magic doesn't mean their weapons are magical. There is nothing to indicate otherwise. If you've got any proof that their weapons are magic, provide it. Otherwise, Heartless can be harmed with normal weapons.

goofy and donald are also magic users so they can harm heartless as well

What magic does Goofy have?


not to mention these are all npc's What's that got to do with anything?

also by scaling since sora is considered around hypersonic+ if im correct heartless must range from hypersonic to somewhere above sora since they keep up with him pretty well


Sora takes out Heartless just as easily as Ichigo and co. take out Hollows.

Ichigo is also considered around hypersonic+, so the Hollows must therefore also be.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:15 PM
ansem seeker of darkness merged with world of chaos = nobodys cant do shizz

Yeah there's no way hollows could beat that it has too much power and is utterly massive i beleive.

eh i dont remember exactly been a while since i played but yea i think your right it did barely a sliver of damage tho

Yeah it may be little damage but sora can still injure them without the keyblade.

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:16 PM
arrancar arent allowed in battle Good thing Hollow Ichigo isn't an Arrancar then. He's a Hollow. Hence the name. He's got a fully intact mask and everything. He never removed it. An Arrancar is a Hollow that has removed his mask and Hollow Ichigo done never did that.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Good thing Hollow Ichigo isn't an Arrancar then.

Well as far as i beleive he's not a full hollow but he can't beat ansem merged with world of chaos.

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:19 PM
As far as you believe =/= is. As for merging with the World of Darkness, that would require that they actually be in said world. Which they aren't. So unless Ansem has dimension jumping abilities(in which case, he would automatically be disqualified the second he left the fight location) it ain't happening.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:20 PM
As far as you believe =/= is.

At least my posts pertain to the topic at hand but please explain how hollow ichigo can beat a army of heartless and world of choas ansem.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:21 PM
Just because they have magic doesn't mean their weapons are magical. There is nothing to indicate otherwise. If you've got any proof that their weapons are magic, provide it. Otherwise, Heartless can be harmed with normal weapons.

this is kingdom hearts people that have magic can harm the heartless people that dont cant it's kinda inconsistent but theirs a small amount of evidence to support that

What magic does Goofy have?
some of his abilitys i believe are somewhat magical in their execution

What's that got to do with anything?

game mechanics it wouldnt make sense to have partners and allies that cant do squat

Sora takes out Heartless just as easily as Ichigo and co. take out Hollows.
ichgo and co. take out worthless fodder hollows the best hollow iv seen was that one that renji and chad took out that was made of sand sora can solo entire tornys filled with groups of high level heartless and boss level heartless without getting tired
Ichigo is also considered around hypersonic+, so the Hollows must therefore also be.
not every hollow has been consistent with that grand fisher in his first appearance was extremely slow compared to anyone at this point in the series and even in his second appearance as an arrancar he still couldent react to isshin even when he was already attacking



in red mind you im not a big fan of the battle grounds so if you have problems with my typing style im more of an offtopica goer so my use of punctuation and such is very limited

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:22 PM
As for merging with the World of Darkness, that would require that they actually be in said world. Which they aren't. So unless Ansem has dimension jumping abilities(in which case, he would automatically be disqualified the second he left the fight location) it ain't happening.

Fodder Heartless are fodder. HI takes out any army they throw at him.

this is kingdom hearts people that have magic can harm the heartless people that dont cant it's kinda inconsistent but theirs a small amount of evidence to support that


That doesn't prove they have magic weapons.

some of his abilitys i believe are somewhat magical in their execution
Some of his abilities =/= his weapon.

game mechanics it wouldnt make sense to have partners and allies that cant do squat

They fight Hollows in cinematics as well, near as I recall.

ichgo and co. take out worthless fodder hollows the best hollow iv seen was that one that renji and chad took out that was made of sand sora can solo entire tornys filled with groups of high level heartless and boss level heartless without getting tired


As can Ichigo with Hollows.


not every hollow has been consistent with that grand fisher in his first appearance was extremely slow compared to anyone at this point in the series and even in his second appearance as an arrancar he still couldent react to isshin even when he was already attacking


So all Heartless are hypersonic because some of them can keep up with Sora but not all Hollows are because only some of them can keep up with Ichigo. I believe this is what is known as a double standard.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:22 PM
Good thing Hollow Ichigo isn't an Arrancar then. He's a Hollow. Hence the name. He's got a fully intact mask and everything. He never removed it. An Arrancar is a Hollow that has removed his mask and Hollow Ichigo done never did that.
technically ichigo has ripped of hollow ichigos mask several times when he was trying to take control of him :cool:

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:24 PM
As far as you believe =/= is. As for merging with the World of Darkness, that would require that they actually be in said world. Which they aren't. So unless Ansem has dimension jumping abilities(in which case, he would automatically be disqualified the second he left the fight location) it ain't happening.

Dude the location is the realm of darkness which i beleive has the world of darkness in it but i haven't played kh in so long. Still ansem is powerful on his own.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:24 PM
Fodder Heartless are fodder. HI takes out any army they throw at him.
fodder heartless are also endless meaning eventually hollow ichigo chills out and reverts back to normal and ichigo is disqualified for not being a hollow

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:25 PM
Dude the location is the realm of darkness which i beleive has the world of darkness in it but i haven't played kh in so long. Still ansem is powerful on his own.
realm of darkness is home to every heartless their is or ever was or will be it's common sense

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Dude the location is the realm of darkness which i beleive has the world of darkness in it


That'll teach me to actually read the opening post. XD

fodder heartless are also endless meaning eventually hollow ichigo chills out and reverts back to normal and ichigo is disqualified for not being a hollow

As far as we know fodder Heartless are endless. Similarly as far as we know fodder Hollows are endless. Stalemate.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:31 PM
realm of darkness is home to every heartless their is or ever was or will be it's common sense

Well then hollows lose to never ending army of heartless and i'm sure darksides can be a large pain to the hollows.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Fodder Heartless are fodder. HI takes out any army they throw at him.



That doesn't prove they have magic weapons.


Some of his abilities =/= his weapon.



They fight Hollows in cinematics as well, near as I recall.



As can Ichigo with Hollows.



So all Heartless are hypersonic because some of them can keep up with Sora but not all Hollows are because only some of them can keep up with Ichigo. I believe this is what is known as a double standard.
hey were workin off a feats here right heartless have feats of begin able to keep up and in some cases overwhelm sora in small numbers

ichigo is overwhelmed by hollows when theirs like 15 of them all attacking at once because the only thing he can do is getsuga spam

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:32 PM
That'll teach me to actually read the opening post. XD



As far as we know fodder Heartless are endless. Similarly as far as we know fodder Hollows are endless. Stalemate.
stalemate overruled due to heartless field advantage heartless can spawn any number of any heartless since their in the realm of darkness thus armys of bosses >>>> fodder hollows

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Heartless are hypersonic because a few of them can overwhelm Sora but Hollows aren't because a few of them can overwhelm Ichigo.

Same old song and dance.

stalemate overruled due to heartless field advantage heartless can spawn any number of any heartless since their in the realm of darkness thus armys of bosses >>>> fodder hollows

Field advantage overruled. Heartless don't spawn spontaneously. Just because they're in the realm of darkness doesn't mean they magically get more reinforcements. If it's every Hollow vs every Heartless, with no reinforcements, then it's an even playing field.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 03:33 PM
That'll teach me to actually read the opening post. XD



As far as we know fodder Heartless are endless. Similarly as far as we know fodder Hollows are endless. Stalemate.

Well the army of heartless is far larger then the hollow the heartless just destroy all the hollows and overwelm any more that come.

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Based on?

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Heartless are hypersonic because a few of them can overwhelm Sora but Hollows aren't because a few of them can overwhelm Ichigo.

Same old song and dance.
i think you mis interpreted hollows arent by any means that impressive the strength of the heartless is determined partially by at what level the protagonist was when it was defeated the first heartless in the series are likely the weakest things ever and you wont lose to them even in the thousands unless you just stand their however while they lack power their speed is still able to keep up with sora thruout the series however take the first hollow in bleach and throw it up against even chad who is probably the slowest of the trio and it will be utterly raped in all areas

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:37 PM
So what you're saying is the only reason Heartless are strong is because of gameplay mechanics. I'm fine with that. GPM aren't valid.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Field advantage overruled. Heartless don't spawn spontaneously. Just because they're in the realm of darkness doesn't mean they magically get more reinforcements. If it's every Hollow vs every Heartless, with no reinforcements, then it's an even playing field.
heartless have proven to be able to spawn for an extreme amount of time how many hollows have their been in the series total ;)

im geussing like 300 something mabye? probably less how many heartless are their entire worlds full so somewhere in the high thousands

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:40 PM
So what you're saying is the only reason Heartless are strong is because of gameplay mechanics. I'm fine with that. GPM aren't valid.
it may be GPM but can you really argue the abilitys of a game without them unless you wanna bring the KH manga into this which i have no knowledge of

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:43 PM
The games are the primary canon, so the manga wouldn't matter either way. If their strength is determined by gameplay mechanics then the only way to get a clear picture of what they're capable of is to rely on in-game cinematics, in which case I can only ever recall basic shadows and them little knight heartless, all of which are casually dispatched by any schmuck with a weapon with no indication of being able to react to hypersonic speeds.

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:50 PM
The games are the primary canon, so the manga wouldn't matter either way. If their strength is determined by gameplay mechanics then the only way to get a clear picture of what they're capable of is to rely on in-game cinematics, in which case I can only ever recall basic shadows and them little knight heartless, all of which are casually dispatched by any schmuck with a weapon with no indication of being able to react to hypersonic speeds.
well then mabye that schmuck is hypersonic :cool:

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:51 PM
Maybe, maybe, but you'll need something solid to go with that. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 03:57 PM
Maybe, maybe, but you'll need something solid to go with that. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png
and you got solid proof ichigo is hypersonic from still frame panels? :cool:

Nyruss
11-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Touche. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png

junchurikioftheleaf
11-06-2010, 04:02 PM
Touche. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/112hqmv.png
indeed :ugeek:

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 04:59 PM
Based on?

Basicly heartless and hollows are made the same way the corruption of peoples but the hollows are stuck to the amount of people in one world while the heartless come from many worlds and have a far more larger poplulace to turn into heartless so they have larger numbers.

Akatsuki X
11-06-2010, 07:48 PM
Doesn't hollows include Arrancar?
If so, then hollows rape.

Even normal hollows might be able to take this..

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 07:56 PM
Doesn't hollows include Arrancar?
If so, then hollows rape.

Even normal hollows might be able to take this..

Read op, arrancars are banned from this fight. Sir can you please show some evidence to help clarify your post(no i'm not being mean or sarcastic i'm being polite)

Akatsuki X
11-06-2010, 08:07 PM
Well, hollows also include Adjuches and Vasto Lordes, who, through hype, and some feats, have shown themselves to be more than a match for the heartless.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 08:11 PM
Well, hollows also include Adjuches and Vasto Lordes, who, through hype, and some feats, have shown themselves to be more than a match for the heartless.

The problem is numbers the hollows have thousands of each type and there are hundreds of types of heartless so they can overwhelm them and the heartless bosses will be a big problem to hollows.

Akatsuki X
11-06-2010, 08:12 PM
Bug heartless have never really showed any speed feats.
Unlike hollows.

And hollows individually are much stronger.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Bug heartless have never really showed any speed feats.
Unlike hollows.

And hollows individually are much stronger.

Yeah but most hollows don't have good speed feats really either way the power of the heartless depends yeah some are weak but some types are really powerful and we have to take into account ansem because he is a heartless too and have you seen him fused with world of chaos.

Akatsuki X
11-06-2010, 08:43 PM
Some hollows showed speeds equal on terms with some of the main characters,
Plus Vasto Lorde are supposedly captain level.

zetsu2141
11-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Some hollows showed speeds equal on terms with some of the main characters,
Plus Vasto Lorde are supposedly captain level.

Well there is not many vasto lordes though and heartless bosses can be trouble for sora and a lot of people say he is far stronger then bleach characters and could solo Bleachverse.