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Err
06-26-2009, 12:35 PM
Doesn't matter if you are not Christian or not a part of a religion. If you believe in God, explain why you do. If you don't believe in God, explain why not.

Want to know what fellow Naruto fans believe.

Before you start flaming other people for believing what they do, read this:
Instead of people putting other people down for their beliefs, we can share and argue (the good kind) each others ideas. We learn why people believe what they believe and why they have such strong convection's in their beliefs. It's about having an open-mind, and knowing that peoples beliefs may differ from yours. It should not be about who's right and wrong, it's about ideas, opinions, and personal beliefs that makes every human unique. Enjoy the diversity.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Yes. Because our world was clearly designed by intelligence, and it's something all of us have built into our brain. Every single past nation, tribe, and people had a god.

jacobjak
06-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Yes. Because our world was clearly designed by intelligence, and it's something all of us have built into our brain. Every single past nation, tribe, and people had a god.
what he said

Ryaque
06-26-2009, 12:45 PM
I believe there is a great force in this world that guides us from above. So yes I belive in God or maybe even gods. You never know do you?

jacobjak
06-26-2009, 12:47 PM
science may say we all developed from atoms on a meteor to the humans we are today but i think its god beacuse how are we so much smarter than other animals without help from above

Kuromaki
06-26-2009, 12:48 PM
Yes, of course. What Gamabunta said.

Err
06-26-2009, 12:52 PM
Yes. Because our world was clearly designed by intelligence, and it's something all of us have built into our brain. Every single past nation, tribe, and people had a god.

How was it clearly designed?

Err
06-26-2009, 12:56 PM
science may say we all developed from atoms on a meteor to the humans we are today but i think its god beacuse how are we so much smarter than other animals without help from above

Atoms are everywhere in the universe, it's in the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, the world we live on, and we are even made it up of them. It most certainly did not only come form a meteor. It came from stars, and everything in between.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 12:57 PM
How was it clearly designed?

DNA is a language. For a language to exist, it has to first be written. Our cells are very complex, as complex if not more complex than our entire universe. The chances of a planet existing that is actually capable of supporting life is nigh impossible, yet here we are.

naru22
06-26-2009, 12:59 PM
I dont really beleive in god that much... im not saying im athiest (and im not saying theres a Problem with being athiest) and im not saying there isnt a god, just that there are lots of gods that ppl beleive in and that i wanna be on the safe side so that the gods/godesses arent mad at me when i die, u know? (this is a bit hard to explain lol.) there could be ANYTHING out there that created us all...and if it has the power to do that then i REEAALLYY dont wanna be on its bad side. (im a bit nervous to post this cuz i dont want a ton of angry ppl yellin at me!)

naru22
06-26-2009, 01:00 PM
I believe there is a great force in this world that guides us from above. So yes I belive in God or maybe even gods. You never know do you?
EXACTLY!! ok this is kinda what i was trying to say!!!

Err
06-26-2009, 01:02 PM
DNA is a language. For a language to exist, it has to first be written. Our cells are very complex, as complex if not more complex than our entire universe. The chances of a planet existing that is actually capable of supporting life is nigh impossible, yet here we are.

OK, then what about the popular belief that God created this universe for us? If God had indeed created this universe for us, then the next logical step will creating more habitable planets like Earth all around us.

mangagirl
06-26-2009, 01:03 PM
i think i belive in god

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:04 PM
OK, then what about the popular belief that God created this universe for us? If God had indeed created this universe for us, then the next logical step will creating more habitable planets like Earth all around us.

If God created the universe for us, he would've granted us wings, and the ability to fly through space. That's just bad logic. God gave us what he gave us. Just because he didn't give us more, doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:07 PM
i think i belive in god

Does this make any sense?

I believe in God.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:09 PM
Make sure you cast your vote in the poll btw.

Err
06-26-2009, 01:14 PM
If God created the universe for us, he would've granted us wings, and the ability to fly through space. That's just bad logic. God gave us what he gave us. Just because he didn't give us more, doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

If it certainly was a God, then God would have known we could eventually fly to the moon and back, why not to different planets? The world wasn't as populated as it is now, back in those times. There was plenty of room to expand on one planet for a while.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:16 PM
If it certainly was a God, then God would have known we could eventually fly to the moon and back, why not to different planets? The world wasn't as populated as it is now, back in those times. There was plenty of room to expand on one planet for a while.

God did say be fruitful and multiply ^_^.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:19 PM
If it certainly was a God, then God would have known we could eventually fly to the moon and back, why not to different planets? The world wasn't as populated as it is now, back in those times. There was plenty of room to expand on one planet for a while.

Once again bad logic. Just because something doesn't exist, doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. Did it ever occur to you that we are supposed to be limited to one planet?

That's like me saying my great great grandpa never existed, because I've never seen him and because he would've left me a fortune if he had.

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:22 PM
I do not believe in God.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:23 PM
I do not believe in God.

Why is that?

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:25 PM
Why is that?
its a long story

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:26 PM
its a long story

The dude who made this thread said say why or why not(even tho I didn't), in a nutshell?

Mini
06-26-2009, 01:27 PM
.I Believe In God.

Fan of Minato
06-26-2009, 01:28 PM
I believe in God with all my heart.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:29 PM
I've got a question in here for anyone who doesn't believe in God. I'll ask whenever they post.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:30 PM
I've got a question in here for anyone who doesn't believe in God. I'll ask whenever they post.

*points at yoshi-chan*

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:30 PM
I'll wait for them to post.

Err
06-26-2009, 01:31 PM
Once again bad logic. Just because something doesn't exist, doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. Did it ever occur to you that we are supposed to be limited to one planet?

That's like me saying my great great grandpa never existed, because I've never seen him and because he would've left me a fortune if he had.

That's different. Your great grandfather was a human just like the rest of us, it's to be excepted that he will eventually die, just like everything on this planet does. Though you know he did exist at one time because your family once knew him and there are probably pictures of him. God doesn't have that, all you have is the word of a bible to go on, a bible that was written a very long time ago by people who still believed sea monsters existed. Let me ask you this: Can you prove to me that Santa Claus doesn't exist?

Mini
06-26-2009, 01:31 PM
I believe in God with all my heart.

.Me Two.

Ninja Pink
06-26-2009, 01:31 PM
I beleive in God.

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:42 PM
*points at yoshi-chan*
okay okay fine!

I used to beleive in God. Untill he took somene I loved, i prayed all the time,asked why, but did I get an answer? No, I did not. So, I dont believe in him anymore.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:44 PM
So because something bad happened God doesn't exist? So how do you explain how good things happen? Death and pain are as much apart of life as happiness and joy.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:45 PM
And my question for those who don't believe in God is:

Do you beleive in right and wrong?

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:46 PM
So because something bad happened God doesn't exist? So how do you explain how good things happen? Death and pain are as much apart of life as happiness and joy.
Good things happen because in life there are good people. Everyone has parents. Does God? How was he born? Tell me that.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:47 PM
Good things happen because in life there are good people. Everyone has parents. Does God? How was he born? Tell me that.

I don't know, because I'm not God. The again how did the first humans get here if they weren't created? Even though evolution contradicts proven science, I'll just say who created the universe?

Edit: So what about having good weather how do we explain that? Or can we only blame God for the bad things. Are world is harsh, if you don't believe me go to a wild part of it.

Err
06-26-2009, 01:48 PM
And my question for those who don't believe in God is:

Do you beleive in right and wrong?

I believe in right and wrong.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:48 PM
Good things happen because in life there are good people. Everyone has parents. Does God? How was he born? Tell me that.

The lord puts obstacles infront of us, it is a test of faith I guess, but when people die there is nothing oyu can do about it you just have to move on, nothing will change, I don't believe you should stop believe since someone is dead, we all die eventually.

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:49 PM
The lord puts obstacles infront of us, it is a test of faith I guess, but when people die there is nothing oyu can do about it you just have to move on, nothing will change, I don't believe you should stop believe since someone is dead, we all die eventually.
I can believe what I want to believe.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:50 PM
I believe in right and wrong.

How? Who says what's right and wrong? Who writes the laws of the universe? If God doesn't exist then he certainly didn't. Which means right and wrong, good and evil don't exist.

Err
06-26-2009, 01:50 PM
The lord puts obstacles infront of us, it is a test of faith I guess, but when people die there is nothing oyu can do about it you just have to move on, nothing will change, I don't believe you should stop believe since someone is dead, we all die eventually.

My signature has never had so much relevance until now. Heh.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:51 PM
I can believe what I want to believe.

True. I can also believe gravity doesn't exist. Then again if I jump off a cliff, I will be proven wrong.

Err
06-26-2009, 01:54 PM
mangagirl (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8264), Ninja Pink (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=6724), Mini (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8201): Why?

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 01:56 PM
My signature has never had so much relevance until now. Heh.

Uh-huh!

True. I can also believe gravity doesn't exist. Then again if I jump off a cliff, I will be proven wrong.

LOL!!

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:57 PM
mangagirl (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8264), Ninja Pink (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=6724), Mini (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8201): Why?

You are ignoring my questions. If God doesn't exist then Right and wrong are just an opinion. And if they are just an opinion then they are meaningless. What happens when my opinion on what's right and wrong conflict with yours? What if I believe murder isn't wrong?

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 01:58 PM
Too bad you're quote isn't even what Lewis said :p. Lewis said the point is faith, and so that we truely believe. Jesus says we shouldn't try and be strong, that's why we rely on him.

Zain Kabuta
06-26-2009, 01:58 PM
i believe in god.... and the resin i just need some thing to believe in and i feel powered by it and believe there is a bunch of reasons why i do...

Yoshi-Chan
06-26-2009, 01:59 PM
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? then whence cometh evil? Is he neither willing, nor able? Then why call him God." - Epicurus.

Ninja Pink
06-26-2009, 02:05 PM
mangagirl (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8264), Ninja Pink (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=6724), Mini (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=8201): Why?


Because not only was I raised too,is because the only evidence of how the whole world was created was him,I don't know the best way to exaplain,just is what it is.

Err
06-26-2009, 02:14 PM
You are ignoring my questions. If God doesn't exist then Right and wrong are just an opinion. And if they are just an opinion then they are meaningless. What happens when my opinion on what's right and wrong conflict with yours? What if I believe murder isn't wrong?

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your post. I must of missed it. No, right and wrong isn't based on God's existence. It's logic that plays through, reasonable thinking. You know you shouldn't kill other people, because you wouldn't want that happening the people around you or you. So, you think there was no right and wrong before the bible?

Ninja Pink
06-26-2009, 02:16 PM
You are ignoring my questions. If God doesn't exist then Right and wrong are just an opinion. And if they are just an opinion then they are meaningless. What happens when my opinion on what's right and wrong conflict with yours? What if I believe murder isn't wrong?

I just answered it:|

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 02:18 PM
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? then whence cometh evil? Is he neither willing, nor able? Then why call him God." - Epicurus.

People aren't created evil, their intentions are evil, so it is the persons' fault not God's.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 02:22 PM
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? then whence cometh evil? Is he neither willing, nor able? Then why call him God." - Epicurus.

Let me tell you something.

God created us to be human beings. We have the right to decide and make our choices. If these choices didn't have consequences then they wouldn't be choices. And if we didn't have the right to decide we'd be robots, not humans. By the very nature of our existence there is pain and suffering, caused by human choices.

Now another point I want to make is how bad of logic that quote is. You see we are all able to prevent evil but we don't. I could prevent the murder of innocents if I became a dictator and allowed no one to have these freedoms. In that I'm ending evil, but I'm not allowing any freedom which in turn makes the solution more evil than the cause.

One could also say you not giving your comfort and you desires up to help end all human suffering is selfish and evil. I mean God's not preventing human suffering, so he's evil right? Well you aren't preventing human suffering, so you are evil right?

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 02:24 PM
Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your post. I must of missed it. No, right and wrong isn't based on God's existence. It's logic that plays through, reasonable thinking. You know you shouldn't kill other people, because you wouldn't want that happening the people around you or you. So, you think there was no right and wrong before the bible?

How do you know? Perspectives and experiences influence our logic. That is fact. That's why two people using perfectly sound logic can come to two different answers. Maybe I do believe murder is good, people out there certainly do, so who's right me or you? Like I said without a lawgiver there are no laws, meaning there is no right or wrong. You saying their is no lawgiver but there are laws is once again bad logic.

Err
06-26-2009, 02:28 PM
Because not only was I raised too,is because the only evidence of how the whole world was created was him,I don't know the best way to exaplain,just is what it is.
I was raised Christian by my mother. It was the only thing I knew to believe, I didn't know it was an option to not believe in him. Mother shot down everything I said, and tried to put her beliefs in me. I went to her church from newborn until I was 16. So I know what you mean.

Err
06-26-2009, 02:55 PM
How do you know? Perspectives and experiences influence our logic. That is fact. That's why two people using perfectly sound logic can come to two different answers. Maybe I do believe murder is good, people out there certainly do, so who's right me or you? Like I said without a lawgiver there are no laws, meaning there is no right or wrong. You saying their is no lawgiver but there are laws is once again bad logic.

So with your thinking, every religion somehow follows every set of morals. What happens when those set of morals comes into contact with say, oh, abortion, stem cell, or removing life support systems on dying people? Are you for capital punishment or not? Depending on your answer you might be going against morals one religion believes with another set of morals the other religion believes. These are general very touchy issues since the bible isn't clear on things like these. What of your god-given morals now? How can some people be for stem cell and others not? Pro-life, Pro-choice? Just because you believe one set of morals is true, doesn't make you right either. Human's interpret the bible as how they want it to be. The things that are set in stone are already in the bible.

Gamabunta
06-26-2009, 03:00 PM
So with your thinking, every religion somehow follows every set of morals. What happens when those set of morals comes into contact with say, oh, abortion, stem cell, or removing life support systems on dying people? Are you for capital punishment or not? Depending on your answer you might be going against morals one religion believes with another set of morals the other religion believes. These are general very touchy issues since the bible isn't clear on things like these. What of your god-given morals now? How can some people be for stem cell and others not? Pro-life, Pro-choice? Just because you believe one set of morals is true, doesn't make you right either. Human's interpret the bible as how they want it to be. The things that are set in stone are already in the bible.

First off, the bible allows for interpretation at certain parts. The old testament is mainly written history, and a book of laws. It's not meant to be interpreted. Second of all I do believe in right and wrong, and I do have morales. My point is is that there is right and wrong, and that there is a God who created the laws of this universe. You have to make a choice you can deny God and right and wrong (something we all have built into us whether or not we choose to believe it) or you can deny both. Otherwise you take away your own credibility and arguments.

Err
06-26-2009, 03:20 PM
First off, the bible allows for interpretation at certain parts. The old testament is mainly written history, and a book of laws. It's not meant to be interpreted. Second of all I do believe in right and wrong, and I do have morales. My point is is that there is right and wrong, and that there is a God who created the laws of this universe. You have to make a choice you can deny God and right and wrong (something we all have built into us whether or not we choose to believe it) or you can deny both. Otherwise you take away your own credibility and arguments.

Yes, and that interpretation can be taken as anything one religion wants to believe. My point is that there is right and wrong without God and his bible, and by saying that, it does not discredit anything that I believe to be right and wrong. Those are just matters of opinion. If God spoke to me, giving me proof that he does in fact exist, believe me, we would not be having this argument. But since God does not speak to anyone, including you, I will not be a believer of God or any of God's religions.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 03:29 PM
First off, the bible allows for interpretation at certain parts. The old testament is mainly written history, and a book of laws. It's not meant to be interpreted. Second of all I do believe in right and wrong, and I do have morales. My point is is that there is right and wrong, and that there is a God who created the laws of this universe. You have to make a choice you can deny God and right and wrong (something we all have built into us whether or not we choose to believe it) or you can deny both. Otherwise you take away your own credibility and arguments.

Bah we only interpet the bible how we want, people pick and choose things to take literally, like Thou shalt not be disrespectful to thy parents, lest ye be killed that is never taken literaly or Women shalt not teach, nor hold authority positions over men. (1 Timothy 2:11-15), this is not taken literally either,
Thou shalt not eat pork, shrimp, lobster, or any shellfish. (Leviticus 11:7-12)


Fish are friends not food!

Kuroda Taishi
06-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Do you believe in life after love?

Err
06-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Do you believe in life after love?
Start your own thread bro.

Hidden Ninja45
06-26-2009, 04:35 PM
No, I don't. I don't want to get into. Everyone i've talked to it about has been somewhat scared of me since.

athoatho
06-26-2009, 04:40 PM
i believe in God
i Also agree with what Gamubonta said
i whant to add three points
1.you may say i a believe in God or not but to know know the truth one must be really willing to and work hard to have it
2.if we the Human where created by chance then why dont we ( and we are much smarter than chance ) create something better than Human
3. and this is may be a bit difficult each minute 20% of your blood is filtered through kidny much of the filtered fluid is reabsorbed into into the circulation again if one have RTA (renal tubula Acidosis ) a disease in wich the kidny is unable to reabsorbed the fluid the logical sequence is to lose all your fluids in few hours at most and dye, but this dousnot happen because the first sign of RTA is that the kidny stop filtering fluid so instead of loosing all your fluid one will have acute renal failure that gives one more time a syste make in this way is not just good but wise and a wise system must be made by a wise manufactorer

Err
06-26-2009, 04:41 PM
No, I don't. I don't want to get into. Everyone i've talked to it about has been somewhat scared of me since.
It's normal. People think you don't live your life by standards. They believe you are worshiping the devil in their eyes.

battlehorse
06-26-2009, 04:44 PM
i belive in God.

Spark
06-26-2009, 04:50 PM
yes i do

athoatho
06-26-2009, 04:51 PM
No, I don't. I don't want to get into. Everyone i've talked to it about has been somewhat scared of me since.
doubt is the first step in knowlge there is nothing to be ashamd of by having doubts, but you should work hard to know the truth
saying i have doubt is better than lying and telling others what they wants to hear

Naruto50
06-26-2009, 04:55 PM
That's different. Your great grandfather was a human just like the rest of us, it's to be excepted that he will eventually die, just like everything on this planet does. Though you know he did exist at one time because your family once knew him and there are probably pictures of him. God doesn't have that, all you have is the word of a bible to go on, a bible that was written a very long time ago by people who still believed sea monsters existed. Let me ask you this: Can you prove to me that Santa Claus doesn't exist?
ya he does everything we see is proof God is real u can see the wind just like u cant see God but u can feel the wind just like u can feel God btw i do believe in God

athoatho
06-26-2009, 04:58 PM
one must use his mind to know God not his senses i saw superman flying in a movie does this mean man can really fly like him ?

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 05:02 PM
one must use his mind to know God not his senses i saw superman flying in a movie does this mean man can really fly like him ?

Not with that kind of attitude sir. Jk.

athoatho
06-26-2009, 05:04 PM
no really your senses can deceive you cant they ?

Err
06-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Spark (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=5728), battlehorse (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/member.php?u=4638): Why?

Anbu-Phoenix
06-26-2009, 05:07 PM
i am a proud atheist

Err
06-26-2009, 05:08 PM
i am a proud atheist

Why don't you believe in God?

hello_kitty_freak
06-26-2009, 05:09 PM
I believe in God whole heartedly and 1000%. I thank everything I had to God. Humans bring bad things upon themselves and when people die it's not because God doesn't love them. It's just their time...

Naruto50
06-26-2009, 05:11 PM
I believe in God whole heartedly and 1000%. I thank everything I had to God. Humans bring bad things upon themselves and when people die it's not because God doesn't love them. It's just their time...
i agree

Err
06-26-2009, 05:12 PM
I believe in God whole heartedly and 1000%. I thank everything I had to God. Humans bring bad things upon themselves and when people die it's not because God doesn't love them. It's just their time...

What about those times where the weather or acts of mother nature do harm to people? Remember Katrina?

Naruto50
06-26-2009, 05:14 PM
What about those times where the weather or acts of mother nature do harm to people? Remember Katrina?
sometimes others get punished for a hand full of people's mistakes but if they r faithful to God in the end they will b rewarded

Anbu-Phoenix
06-26-2009, 05:15 PM
Why don't you believe in God?
well to me its a little far fetched i mean think about it
i guy who we've never seen before we believe is the maker we don't even know if he exists there is no proof all the stuff in the bible could just be rumors and did you know they cut several books from the bible cuz the church didn't like it like the book of Enoch he was in the bible once but he had his own book that they didn't show it was all about aliens and was the only book of the bible to be in first person so my answer is that there is no proof

vampire Lycan
06-26-2009, 05:15 PM
i don't believe in god........i don't see how he would make any of this if he never had any knowledge of what a plant was when he made earth....

vampire Lycan
06-26-2009, 05:16 PM
i am a proud atheist
same here

Naruto50
06-26-2009, 05:20 PM
well to me its a little far fetched i mean think about it
i guy who we've never seen before we believe is the maker we don't even know if he exists there is no proof all the stuff in the bible could just be rumors and did you know they cut several books from the bible cuz the church didn't like it like the book of Enoch he was in the bible once but he had his own book that they didn't show it was all about aliens and was the only book of the bible to be in first person so my answer is that there is no proof
thats wats called faith when u have faith in God He might reveal himself to u

athoatho
06-26-2009, 05:20 PM
well to me its a little far fetched i mean think about it
i guy who we've never seen before we believe is the maker we don't even know if he exists there is no proof all the stuff in the bible could just be rumors and did you know they cut several books from the bible cuz the church didn't like it like the book of Enoch he was in the bible once but he had his own book that they didn't show it was all about aliens and was the only book of the bible to be in first person so my answer is that there is no proof
you are not sure that there is a God, but are you sure the reverse is true ?

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 05:22 PM
well to me its a little far fetched i mean think about it
i guy who we've never seen before we believe is the maker we don't even know if he exists there is no proof all the stuff in the bible could just be rumors and did you know they cut several books from the bible cuz the church didn't like it like the book of Enoch he was in the bible once but he had his own book that they didn't show it was all about aliens and was the only book of the bible to be in first person so my answer is that there is no proof

That is where faith comes in, sweetheart.

Anbu-Phoenix
06-26-2009, 05:31 PM
and here comes the pushing to become a christian this happens every time i tell someone

Err
06-26-2009, 05:32 PM
same here
Why don't you believe in God?

Sasori_X
06-26-2009, 08:23 PM
Do I believe in a general God? Not to sure. I'm neutral so you can call me an agnostic, well a little. I believe however that there is a higher being out there.

Believe it (lol Naruto reference) or not I was raised as an Athiest.

Nawaki Uchiha
06-26-2009, 08:28 PM
Yes. Because our world was clearly designed by intelligence, and it's something all of us have built into our brain. Every single past nation, tribe, and people had a god.

what he said
What he said

deidara330
06-26-2009, 08:29 PM
I'm not a religous person, and I believe what I want to believe. I believe that having something to believe in is important, but you should believe in yourself. Believe it! (dang I'm talking like Naruto again) I don't really feel like saying anything bad or good about God, because I've never really met the dude. If he even is a dude.

Nawaki Uchiha
06-26-2009, 08:30 PM
same here
you stink

deidara330
06-26-2009, 08:35 PM
you stink
You really want to go there? if the dude's an aethiest, then you shouldn't mock him for it. Freedom of religon, man.

Cupcake
06-26-2009, 08:36 PM
I'm a Christian but I'm kind of like a psuedo-Christian. I don't go to church EVERY week and I don't pray all the time. My life doesn't revolve around someone who may or may not exist. I also think it's ridiculous that Jesus rose from the dead 3 days later. I think Kakuzu sold his body for the bounty.-bazooka'd-

Anbu-Phoenix
06-26-2009, 08:38 PM
you stink
why don't you back off im an atheist and im damn well proud so don't mock him if you want to mock someone mock yourself for thinking your religion is the only religion that matters and that if someone doesn't believe then there just a bad person

Sensei : Riku Arashi
06-26-2009, 08:40 PM
yes i am a christian and I believe he is real, I have faith that he does exist and thats enough for me

deidara330
06-26-2009, 08:43 PM
why don't you back off im an atheist and im damn well proud so don't mock him if you want to mock someone mock yourself for thinking your religion is the only religion that matters and that if someone doesn't believe then there just a bad person
Basically what I said, but in more detail.
*To Nawaki Uchiha* if you want to be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, that's fine. Just don't mock someone else for choosing a different belief.

deidara330
06-26-2009, 08:44 PM
As for the poll: Do you really expect me to believe in someone I've never met? I think God to any person on the planet is like Santa to a little kid. Does he really exist? Is he just something people need to believe in? Will people ever find the answers to these questions? So my answer is: I can't answer that question. I just can't.

Luna Mikazuki
06-26-2009, 08:52 PM
I have no religion but I beleive in God

Err
06-26-2009, 09:28 PM
As for the poll: Do you really expect me to believe in someone I've never met? I think God to any person on the planet is like Santa to a little kid. Does he really exist? Is he just something people need to believe in? Will people ever find the answers to these questions? So my answer is: I can't answer that question. I just can't.

Do you believe in God?
No. God doesn't exist.
There, I fixed it.

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 10:19 PM
As for the poll: Do you really expect me to believe in someone I've never met? I think God to any person on the planet is like Santa to a little kid. Does he really exist? Is he just something people need to believe in? Will people ever find the answers to these questions? So my answer is: I can't answer that question. I just can't.

Some people have never met their mom, does(or has) that women exsist?

ChemicallyInduced
06-26-2009, 11:06 PM
Some people have never met their mom, does(or has) that women exsist?

Of course your mother has to exist how did you ever get here without a mommy?

Btw, I'm a proud Christain and I will never stop believing in god no matter what anyone tells me. I never really got how god came alive, I mean everything has to start from somewhere, how did god get there?

Lou!e
06-26-2009, 11:08 PM
Of course your mother has to exist how did you ever get here without a mommy?

Btw, I'm a proud Christain and I will never stop believing in god no matter what anyone tells me. I never really got how god came alive, I mean everything has to start from somewhere, how did god get there?

I don't think God minds questions, but none of us here are able to answer that.

Itachi-Sama
06-26-2009, 11:11 PM
I personally do believe in God, because I was brought up to follow Him. I believe in Him, because He gives me a reason to live and act the way I do. If there was no God for me to believe in, I'd be a totally different person.

ThunderSpirit
06-26-2009, 11:18 PM
I have no religion but I beleive in God

That's a very good point. Religion is not necessarily the same thing as belief in a higher power or powers.

athoatho
06-27-2009, 02:09 AM
That's a very good point. Religion is not necessarily the same thing as belief in a higher power or powers.
believing in God is different from religion it is easier to be sure that there is God

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-27-2009, 02:13 AM
I believe in God, i obviously always have doubts about Him, but i believe in Him still

animeJlover
06-27-2009, 02:37 AM
Yes God is real he knows wat we feel and hes always there for us even when it doesnt feel like he is, we should just believe in him and know he will make everything better. If u just believe u will c all the good things tat would happen and just dont give into the enemy

hajrajaved
06-27-2009, 03:33 AM
Atoms are everywhere in the universe, it's in the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, the world we live on, and we are even made it up of them. It most certainly did not only come form a meteor. It came from stars, and everything in between.
Yes I believe in god.....He is the One who is doing all the things in the universe......life is just a test to see whether we deserve to go in heaven or hell for eternity!

hajrajaved
06-27-2009, 03:37 AM
Of course your mother has to exist how did you ever get here without a mommy?

Btw, I'm a proud Christain and I will never stop believing in god no matter what anyone tells me. I never really got how god came alive, I mean everything has to start from somewhere, how did god get there?
well...God has not put that in our minds.....its not in our capacity to think abt sum things....

Err
06-27-2009, 09:18 AM
well...God has not put that in our minds.....its not in our capacity to think abt sum things....
That's wrong. We have the capacity of think of many things and all the things we want. The problem is we lack certain knowledge.

deidara330
06-27-2009, 09:51 AM
Do you believe in God?

There, I fixed it.
Please fix it back before people start holding me accountable for things I've never said.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 10:26 AM
well to me its a little far fetched i mean think about it
i guy who we've never seen before we believe is the maker we don't even know if he exists there is no proof all the stuff in the bible could just be rumors and did you know they cut several books from the bible cuz the church didn't like it like the book of Enoch he was in the bible once but he had his own book that they didn't show it was all about aliens and was the only book of the bible to be in first person so my answer is that there is no proof


When you see a car, do you think it was always there? I mean YOU've never seen the maker of it. How do you know it was actually made? I mean other than people telling you.

hajrajaved
06-27-2009, 10:27 AM
That's wrong. We have the capacity of think of many things and all the things we want. The problem is we lack certain knowledge.
well....u hv ur own beliefs nd i hv my own!! its ok if u think like dat.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 10:28 AM
And Lewis you're right, people often intrepret the bible how they wish. That doesn't mean it is supposed to be. And btw concerning much of the old testament law, Jesus himself said it was null and void since he was their to abolish the law and instead give a gift.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 10:30 AM
and here comes the pushing to become a christian this happens every time i tell someone

Wow. This is a discussion. If you're not even willing to listen to the other sides arguments then leave. That's the problem with athiests when it's your turn to speak, all they claim is you're pushing religion on them.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 10:31 AM
why don't you back off im an atheist and im damn well proud so don't mock him if you want to mock someone mock yourself for thinking your religion is the only religion that matters and that if someone doesn't believe then there just a bad person

You see if you're proud of athiesm, why can't we be proud of creationism? I mean obviously the creationist argument has you guys on the defensive, yet you somehow think you should be proud. That hints that you have a superior way of thinking.....

Err
06-27-2009, 01:59 PM
well....u hv ur own beliefs nd i hv my own!! its ok if u think like dat.
I'm sorry, I can't understand your post. :(

Cade
06-27-2009, 02:05 PM
I believe in God,but I'm not a Christain.I'm not any religion.

Zeek Uchiha
06-27-2009, 02:07 PM
I personally do believe in God, because I was brought up to follow Him. I believe in Him, because He gives me a reason to live and act the way I do. If there was no God for me to believe in, I'd be a totally different person.Yeah same 4 me that's why I believe in God if it wasn't 4 God we wouldn't be here 2day

Err
06-27-2009, 02:21 PM
I believe in God,but I'm not a Christain.I'm not any religion.
Why do you believe in God?

Naruto50
06-27-2009, 04:22 PM
this is a very interesting discussion

Err
06-27-2009, 04:31 PM
this is a very interesting discussion
Please post why you believe in God. That way people can get other peoples opinions on why they believe what they believe. It'll be much more interesting that way.

Black King
06-27-2009, 04:49 PM
No. If you think you'll be offended or you don't like reading a lot don't read the spoiler.


Since people didn't listen to what I wrote above this spoiler I deleted it.

ChemicallyInduced
06-27-2009, 04:56 PM
No. If you think you'll be offended or you don't like reading a lot don't read the spoiler.

Let's look at "God's son"
Can you actually believe some dude can make a table-full of bread with one peice of bread just by pulling it apart?
That he can come back to life?
That he didn't die form blood loss, starvation, and/or infection before being crucified?
Having chunks of his skin being torn out, not being fed, and the thorn crown hammered into his head. (P.S. Your head bleeds A LOT when it's punctured.)
Coming back to life after being crucified?
That water spilled from his side when he was stabbed with a spear?
That one of his prophets could part water?

One person that heard me rambling about this said..."It's true though!"
I said "Why do you think that?"
They said "Becasue it's god."
I (sarcastically) thought "...That makes me want to convert...That's all the reason necessary, right?"
People are brainwashed into thinking it's true. Because their parent's believed it, and their grandparents believed it, and their grandparent's ancestors believed it because they were from the time period were things like that were more believeable because they didn't have the science and proof we have today.

It all seems like a made up story. How do they get more and more people to believe it? They make children's books about it so the youth of the human population believe the story. I'm too lazy to continue...:|



I think Jesus was real, it caused us to remember him all the way up till now and forever, it was so big what had happened, it has to be true.

Hidden Ninja45
06-27-2009, 04:56 PM
No. If you think you'll be offended or you don't like reading a lot don't read the spoiler.

Let's look at "God's son"
Can you actually believe some dude can make a table-full of bread with one peice of bread just by pulling it apart?
That he can come back to life?
That he didn't die form blood loss, starvation, and/or infection before being crucified?
Having chunks of his skin being torn out, not being fed, and the thorn crown hammered into his head. (P.S. Your head bleeds A LOT when it's punctured.)
Coming back to life after being crucified?
That water spilled from his side when he was stabbed with a spear?
That one of his prophets could part water?

One person that heard me rambling about this said..."It's true though!"
I said "Why do you think that?"
They said "Becasue it's god."
I (sarcastically) thought "...That makes me want to convert...That's all the reason necessary, right?"
People are brainwashed into thinking it's true. Because their parent's believed it, and their grandparents believed it, and their grandparent's ancestors believed it because they were from the time period were things like that were more believeable because they didn't have the science and proof we have today.

It all seems like a made up story. How do they get more and more people to believe it? They make children's books about it so the youth of the human population believe the story. I'm too lazy to continue...:|

That's what I think....basically. It all seems like a story. A story that got out of hand. It would be like if Harry Potter was God or something.

Black King
06-27-2009, 04:58 PM
That's what I think....basically. It all seems like a story. A story that got out of hand. It would be like if Harry Potter was God or something.

Yeah. A story that got TOO out of hand. :|

yondaime
06-27-2009, 05:05 PM
I believe in God with all my heart.

me too minato

Slimdoe
06-27-2009, 05:07 PM
I absolutely don't.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:14 PM
No. If you think you'll be offended or you don't like reading a lot don't read the spoiler.

Let's look at "God's son"
Can you actually believe some dude can make a table-full of bread with one peice of bread just by pulling it apart?
That he can come back to life?
That he didn't die form blood loss, starvation, and/or infection before being crucified?
Having chunks of his skin being torn out, not being fed, and the thorn crown hammered into his head. (P.S. Your head bleeds A LOT when it's punctured.)
Coming back to life after being crucified?
That water spilled from his side when he was stabbed with a spear?
That one of his prophets could part water?

One person that heard me rambling about this said..."It's true though!"
I said "Why do you think that?"
They said "Becasue it's god."
I (sarcastically) thought "...That makes me want to convert...That's all the reason necessary, right?"
People are brainwashed into thinking it's true. Because their parent's believed it, and their grandparents believed it, and their grandparent's ancestors believed it because they were from the time period were things like that were more believeable because they didn't have the science and proof we have today.

It all seems like a made up story. How do they get more and more people to believe it? They make children's books about it so the youth of the human population believe the story. I'm too lazy to continue...:|



That just shows ignorance, and a lack of knowledge and understanding. The fact is their were hundreds of witnesses to his death. Roman scholars even wrote about it. Their were also hundreds (if not thousands), of witnesses, who saw him walk around after he died. The gospel was written within the lifetime of the disciples of jesus, meaning if they exagerrated any facts everyone around them would've known it. Thousands of romans and jews, including scholars, converted to christianity, if the disciples were lying about the story why would that be the case. BTW I find you're targeting of christianity confusing, is it the only religion with creationist views now?

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. And if he does exist miracles, and supernatural occurences aren't that farfetched. I'm a second generation christian and an apologetic and I can tell you I haven't been brainwashed.

Black King
06-27-2009, 05:21 PM
That just shows ignorance, and a lack of knowledge and understanding. The fact is their were hundreds of witnesses to his death. Roman scholars even wrote about it. Their were also hundreds (if not thousands), of witnesses, who saw him walk around after he died. The gospel was written within the lifetime of the disciples of jesus, meaning if they exagerrated any facts everyone around them would've known it. Thousands of romans and jews, including scholars, converted to christianity, if the disciples were lying about the story why would that be the case. BTW I find you're targeting of christianity confusing, is it the only religion with creationist views now?

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. And if he does exist miracles, and supernatural occurences aren't that farfetched. I'm a second generation christian and an apologetic and I can tell you I haven't been brainwashed.

That's your opinion.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:24 PM
That's your opinion.

No. It's my opinion that he was God. It's a fact Jesus existed, was crucified, that his body dissappeared, and that there are records of him walking around afterwards. There also records of his hundreds of miracles. It's your opinion that God doesn't exist, that doesn't mean you have a right to say someone's believe is a lie taken too far.

So who was Jesus, in your opinion?

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:27 PM
And it's also your opinion that all christians are brainwashed.

You obviously don't have any first hand knowledge about the actual fact behind the story, so I'm just opening your eyes.

Black King
06-27-2009, 05:28 PM
No. It's my opinion that he was God. It's a fact Jesus existed, was crucified, that his body dissappeared, and that there are records of him walking around afterwards. There also records of his hundreds of miracles. It's your opinion that God doesn't exist, that doesn't mean you have a right to say someone's believe is a lie taken too far.

So who was Jesus, in your opinion?

That's your opinion...? I said not to read it if you would get offended.

And I don't see why I should have to answer that.

I don't care if you're "Opening my eyes" either...It won't change my opinion.
Now leave it be. We have differing opinions.

Err
06-27-2009, 05:36 PM
No. If you think you'll be offended or you don't like reading a lot don't read the spoiler.

Since people didn't listen to what I wrote above this spoiler I deleted it.


There was nothing wrong with what you posted. It's the other people who just have different opinions about things and don't agree with you. But that doesn't mean you have to remove it. But if you feel more comfortable with that, then that's fine.

Black King
06-27-2009, 05:39 PM
There was nothing wrong with what you posted. It's the other people who just have different opinions about things and don't agree with you. But that doesn't mean you have to remove it. But if you feel more comfortable with that, then that's fine.


People quoted it. So it's still there. I deleted the original so, hopefully, less people will attack me like that.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:40 PM
That's your opinion...? I said not to read it if you would get offended.

And I don't see why I should have to answer that.

I don't care if you're "Opening my eyes" either...It won't change my opinion.
Now leave it be. We have differing opinions.

You don't post offensive things and expect people not to read. Use some judgement.

You're right we have differing opinions and viewpoints. Yours are based upon assumptions and misinformation. Mine are based upon historical facts mixed with a little bit of faith.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:41 PM
There was nothing wrong with what you posted. It's the other people who just have different opinions about things and don't agree with you. But that doesn't mean you have to remove it. But if you feel more comfortable with that, then that's fine.

I agree he should've left it. He can't expect for someone not to question his statements in a discussion though.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:42 PM
People quoted it. So it's still there. I deleted the original so, hopefully, less people will attack me like that.


I didn't attack you. I just used what you said against you. Watch what you say next time.

Black King
06-27-2009, 05:42 PM
You don't post offensive things and expect people not to read. Use some judgement.

You're right we have differing opinions and viewpoints. Yours are based upon assumptions and misinformation. Mine are based upon historical facts mixed with a little bit of faith.

That's. Your. Opinion. Drop it.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:46 PM
That's. Your. Opinion. Drop it.

No that is a fact. If you don't want to here my opinions, then leave the topic.

Black King
06-27-2009, 05:52 PM
I didn't post here so you could act like such a kid and bash on what I wrote. The point of the thread was to post your opinion about it. People have opinions. Oh..."Thou shall not judge"...Self-Contradicting wouldn't you agree? I'll post in what threads I want to post in. I don't want to start an argument. That's why I said drop it. Now can you please stop?

And I'm not a boy...

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 05:56 PM
I didn't post here so you could act like such a kid and bash on what I wrote. People have opinions. Oh..."Thou shall not judge"...Self-Contradicting wouldn't you agree? I'll post in what threads I want to post in. I don't want to start an argument. That's why I said drop it. Now can you please stop?

And I'm not a boy...

I'm not acting like a kid, you are. Apparently your opinion has more authority then historical documents. And way to misquote.

"Thou shall not judge, lest though be judged"

I can judge what you say and you do all I want, as long as I judge myself by those same standards. It's another example of you having misinformation and making assumption about things you obviously don't have firsthand knowledge of.

Perfectly fine with me. Post where you want, but don't post in a discussion if you don't want to hear the other sides arguments.

Lou!e
06-27-2009, 05:59 PM
I'm not acting like a kid, you are. Apparently your opinion has more authority then historical documents. And way to misquote.

"Thou shall not judge, lest though be judged"

I can judge what you say and you do all I want, as long as I judge myself by those same standards. It's another example of you having misinformation and making assumption about things you obviously don't have firsthand knowledge of.

Perfectly fine with me. Post where you want, but don't post in a discussion if you don't want to hear the other sides arguments.

Wow you destroyed her.

Black King
06-27-2009, 06:00 PM
I'm not acting like a kid, you are. Apparently your opinion has more authority then historical documents. And way to misquote.

"Thou shall not judge, lest though be judged"

I can judge what you say and you do all I want, as long as I judge myself by those same standards. It's another example of you having misinformation and making assumption about things you obviously don't have firsthand knowledge of.

Perfectly fine with me. Post where you want, but don't post in a discussion if you don't want to hear the other sides arguments.
I didn't start this, you did. Don't tell me what to do on a thread. I have nothing more to say.

dragonjinchuriki dj
06-27-2009, 06:20 PM
i say yes 100%

Err
06-27-2009, 06:24 PM
i say yes 100%
Please post your reason why.

Gamabunta
06-27-2009, 06:32 PM
Wow you destroyed her.

Thanks :D

Windking
06-27-2009, 06:46 PM
Yes. Because our world was clearly designed by intelligence, and it's something all of us have built into our brain. Every single past nation, tribe, and people had a god.


I believe there is a great force in this world that guides us from above. So yes I belive in God or maybe even gods. You never know do you?

science may say we all developed from atoms on a meteor to the humans we are today but i think its god beacuse how are we so much smarter than other animals without help from above

Does this make any sense?

I believe in God.

God did say be fruitful and multiply ^_^.

.I Believe In God.

I believe in God with all my heart.

I beleive in God.

i believe in god and i agree what these people are saying..and if there were no god..this forums have not been CREATED!!

ThunderSpirit
06-27-2009, 09:33 PM
I didn't start this, you did. Don't tell me what to do on a thread. I have nothing more to say.

You didn't say anything wrong or offensive. You have a right to your opinion whether someone else agrees with it or not. I don't like to see people who speak their opinion get bashed for it.

You have just as much right to post what you did as anyone else has to post that they believe in god.

Err
06-28-2009, 08:25 PM
bump
:)

Black King
06-28-2009, 08:43 PM
You didn't say anything wrong or offensive. You have a right to your opinion whether someone else agrees with it or not. I don't like to see people who speak their opinion get bashed for it.

You have just as much right to post what you did as anyone else has to post that they believe in god.

He doesn't realize that. That's why I'm just going to shut up with this thread.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 09:16 PM
GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!!!-my reason? 1st- if god supposedly created everything then that makes everything seem much more fragile. 2nd- why should i believe that god is what gets me everything i have and give credit to him for my achievements, that would make it so i had no control over my life and "god" controls everything. 3rd- many people think that life could not have started without a god to give an object life, life started as elements underwent advanced chemical reactions with each other and became more advanced proteins that, with a high burst of energy (such as lightening on earth) can start replicating and moving on its own. It is proven that something along these lines is possible and probable.

I used to go to church, my family used to be strictly religious, and then we underwent experiences as a family that changed our beliefs. some of us believe in god and some of us just believe in a higher force, but i am full on atheist and dont believe such a thing as religion should ever have been invented by insecure, unable to defend themselves people in need of protection. God does not exist, never has, never will. When i first had these thoughts i my first reaction was to think of the devil and how i didnt want to be with him, but as i got older (im 15) i decided there was no way i was going to let these things have so much power over me as to make me scared.

Church is a rediculous practice that just proves the insanity of the people attending it, as they're going to worship a fictional being. These people need to drop their religion crutch and learn to be individuals.

BUT, if these people need something to believe in to make themselves feel warm and loved, i am fine with that, i just find it sad that they cant get that from their family. The only thing i believe in is nature and natural processes, those are the only things that can be trusted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest killer known to man is of his own creation, religion (my proof? the crusades- 100 years of death, war, and hunger).

Anbu-Phoenix
06-28-2009, 09:20 PM
GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!!!-my reason? 1st- if god supposedly created everything then that makes everything seem much more fragile. 2nd- why should i believe that god is what gets me everything i have and give credit to him for my achievements, that would make it so i had no control over my life and "god" controls everything. 3rd- many people think that life could not have started without a god to give an object life, life started as elements underwent advanced chemical reactions with each other and became more advanced proteins that, with a high burst of energy (such as lightening on earth) can start replicating and moving on its own. It is proven that something along these lines is possible and probable.

I used to go to church, my family used to be strictly religious, and then we underwent experiences as a family that changed our beliefs. some of us believe in god and some of us just believe in a higher force, but i am full on atheist and dont believe such a thing as religion should ever have been invented by insecure, unable to defend themselves people in need of protection. God does not exist, never has, never will. When i first had these thoughts i my first reaction was to think of the devil and how i didnt want to be with him, but as i got older (im 15) i decided there was no way i was going to let these things have so much power over me as to make me scared.

Church is a rediculous practice that just proves the insanity of the people attending it, as they're going to worship a fictional being. These people need to drop their religion crutch and learn to be individuals.

BUT, if these people need something to believe in to make themselves feel warm and loved, i am fine with that, i just find it sad that they cant get that from their family. The only thing i believe in is nature and natural processes, those are the only things that can be trusted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest killer known to man is of his own creation, religion (my proof? the crusades- 100 years of death, war, and hunger).
.......FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE THAT HAS THE SAME OPINION :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Mini
06-28-2009, 09:22 PM
.Wow.

Black King
06-28-2009, 09:22 PM
GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!!!-my reason? 1st- if god supposedly created everything then that makes everything seem much more fragile. 2nd- why should i believe that god is what gets me everything i have and give credit to him for my achievements, that would make it so i had no control over my life and "god" controls everything. 3rd- many people think that life could not have started without a god to give an object life, life started as elements underwent advanced chemical reactions with each other and became more advanced proteins that, with a high burst of energy (such as lightening on earth) can start replicating and moving on its own. It is proven that something along these lines is possible and probable.

I used to go to church, my family used to be strictly religious, and then we underwent experiences as a family that changed our beliefs. some of us believe in god and some of us just believe in a higher force, but i am full on atheist and dont believe such a thing as religion should ever have been invented by insecure, unable to defend themselves people in need of protection. God does not exist, never has, never will. When i first had these thoughts i my first reaction was to think of the devil and how i didnt want to be with him, but as i got older (im 15) i decided there was no way i was going to let these things have so much power over me as to make me scared.

Church is a rediculous practice that just proves the insanity of the people attending it, as they're going to worship a fictional being. These people need to drop their religion crutch and learn to be individuals.

BUT, if these people need something to believe in to make themselves feel warm and loved, i am fine with that, i just find it sad that they cant get that from their family. The only thing i believe in is nature and natural processes, those are the only things that can be trusted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest killer known to man is of his own creation, religion (my proof? the crusades- 100 years of death, war, and hunger).

I agree 100%
Watch out though. Gamabunta will come eventually and bash this...

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 09:29 PM
screw gamabunta, he cant argue if no one argues back

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 09:32 PM
i've put a lot of thought into my beliefs and gamabunta wont chaange them, and i havent been to church for 9 years and that also wont change

2hyper4u AKA Sloth
06-28-2009, 09:36 PM
I do not

simple as that, I feel no need to explain my position

Black King
06-28-2009, 09:37 PM
i've put a lot of thought into my beliefs and gamabunta wont chaange them

That's what I tried to let him know. :|

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 09:47 PM
I believe that God exists, and that we're made by Him, i admit i usually have doubts on my belief but whatever lol :lol:

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 09:50 PM
GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!!!-my reason? 1st- if god supposedly created everything then that makes everything seem much more fragile. 2nd- why should i believe that god is what gets me everything i have and give credit to him for my achievements, that would make it so i had no control over my life and "god" controls everything. 3rd- many people think that life could not have started without a god to give an object life, life started as elements underwent advanced chemical reactions with each other and became more advanced proteins that, with a high burst of energy (such as lightening on earth) can start replicating and moving on its own. It is proven that something along these lines is possible and probable.

I used to go to church, my family used to be strictly religious, and then we underwent experiences as a family that changed our beliefs. some of us believe in god and some of us just believe in a higher force, but i am full on atheist and dont believe such a thing as religion should ever have been invented by insecure, unable to defend themselves people in need of protection. God does not exist, never has, never will. When i first had these thoughts i my first reaction was to think of the devil and how i didnt want to be with him, but as i got older (im 15) i decided there was no way i was going to let these things have so much power over me as to make me scared.

Church is a rediculous practice that just proves the insanity of the people attending it, as they're going to worship a fictional being. These people need to drop their religion crutch and learn to be individuals.

BUT, if these people need something to believe in to make themselves feel warm and loved, i am fine with that, i just find it sad that they cant get that from their family. The only thing i believe in is nature and natural processes, those are the only things that can be trusted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest killer known to man is of his own creation, religion (my proof? the crusades- 100 years of death, war, and hunger).

You know what I find more ridiculous than religion? The fact that a 15 year old thinks they understand enough about philosophy, religion, and science to state their own opinions as facts.

It's been proven that in primordeal gooze wouldn't have been able to sustain life. Even if lightning (which doesn't even make any since if you know how eletricity affects atoms) managed to strike this gooze, the only thing that would form would be left sided amino acids, which prevent protiens from forming. Proteins are the basis to which cells are built, meaning cells couldn't have been created in such a manner. See the Miller-Urey experiment. You obviously don't understand that of which you speak, and I warn you that I'm well versed in the arguments of both evolutionists and creationsist. And yes I know my scientific and historical facts as well as a broad range of philosophy.

Let me show you how you're own, assumptive reasoning can be used against you. Apparently people who believe in God need some sort of purpose, or something to make them feel safe right? Well people who don't believe in God, think that humanity is the pinnacle of existence. Atheists must be self worshipping, arrogant people right? /There goes all your arguments.

And religion hasn't been the main killer of men. Ideals haven't even been the main killer or starter of wars. The main history of wars is fighting first among nationalities for resources and land. Relgion has been used as a scapegoat for wars in the past and it will be used as a scape goat for wars in the future. The pope started the crusades for secular reasons, and was motivated to distract the kings so that they wouldn't oppose the clergy. The two greatest mass murderers in history, weren't religious in fact they were atheistic, social darwinists. Their names were Stalin, and Hitler. Christians were murdered in the Soviet Union, after religion was declared illegal. We don't see christians persecuting anyone in the name of Jesus do we?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 09:51 PM
That's what I tried to let him know. :|

I'll say it again. If you don't want to hear my opinions than leave. Don't come in here saying yours and expecting me to keep my mouth shut. Do you think you somehow have a right to freedom of speech and I don't? Or is it that people who believe in God don't have the right to talk about their beliefs?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I agree 100%
Watch out though. Gamabunta will come eventually and bash this...

You need to learn the difference between bashing and questioning. If you can't see the difference then you are far too immature to be in this topic.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 09:53 PM
screw gamabunta, he cant argue if no one argues back

I just did. :)

You know not of which you speak.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:03 PM
And yes I see you naruto#1fan.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:15 PM
To gamabunta-
i do not pretend to know all there is to know about philosophy, religion, and science, i know very little of all of those things, and probably right about the primordial gooze (ooze?), but if you had read carefully, i said after that statement "or something along those line". and i DEFINATELY am not self worshipping and i am not arrogant at all. I do not believe humanity to be the pinnacle of existence rather the defect. Im sure their have also been some pretty evil christians, or some other religious group, for example, what about waco 0r wako or however you spell it- granted it was not anything like the holocaust (speaking of wich hitler was a jew).
I in know way pretend to be above everyone else and know more than everyone else, because i am not and know not. but based on how you argue for your belief, i'd say i am the more mature of the two of us.
there are a few reasons someone in your would argue as fiercely as you have for your beliefs(1.- you are blissfully ignorant and cant act for yourself(2.- you truly believe what you say and practice it as well (which i can truly respect and in which case will no longer argue with you).(or 3.- you are insecure in your beliefs and hate the thought of being proven wrong.
In conclusion, this argument is futile and will get neither of us anywhere. I am not going to suddenly believe in god (if that is what you are trying to make me do), and i am not going to persuade you to not believe in god (which i am most certainly not trying to do. I respect your opinion and have only one question- do you believe any one religion is true or deserves to be the one main religion in the world over all other?
with that i will make no further arguments or comments on this topic with you.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 10:16 PM
I'll say it again. If you don't want to hear my opinions than leave.

Everyone has a right to be here and discuss the topic just like you.

Let me give you some advice, people will take your opinion better if you try to seem a little less irate.

I am neither Christian nor atheist.

Personally, I agree with you that life and the universe is not a random event. I just don't believe in the same idea of creation as you do.

However, I disagree that Christians have not persecuted others in the name of religion. King Olaf of Norway forced people to convert under pain of death, and not simple hanging or something; he would torture them. Charlemagne conducted yearly campaigns against the Saxons in an attempt to forcibly convert them. The Wends of Rugen Island were converted by military force as well. If that is not Christians persecuting others in the name of religion I don't know what is.

I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with you in all aspects.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:16 PM
and its #1naruto fan, not naruto#1fan

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 10:17 PM
how bout u guys stop arguing and just accept that the other person believes in something else?

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:19 PM
i have done just that, and i refuse to argue it any more

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 10:19 PM
how bout u guys stop arguing and just accept that the other person believes in something else?

Yes. Debate is good, argument is bad. There's nothing wrong with exchanging ideas, but everyone needs to not take disagreement personally.

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 10:21 PM
Yes. Debate is good, argument is bad. There's nothing wrong with exchanging ideas, but everyone needs to not take disagreement personally.
woo! :mrgreen:

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:26 PM
To gamabunta-
i do not pretend to know all there is to know about philosophy, religion, and science, i know very little of all of those things, and probably right about the primordial gooze (ooze?), but if you had read carefully, i said after that statement "or something along those line". and i DEFINATELY am not self worshipping and i am not arrogant at all. I do not believe humanity to be the pinnacle of existence rather the defect. Im sure their have also been some pretty evil christians, or some other religious group, for example, what about waco 0r wako or however you spell it- granted it was not anything like the holocaust (speaking of wich hitler was a jew).
I in know way pretend to be above everyone else and know more than everyone else, because i am not and know not. but based on how you argue for your belief, i'd say i am the more mature of the two of us.
there are a few reasons someone in your would argue as fiercely as you have for your beliefs(1.- you are blissfully ignorant and cant act for yourself(2.- you truly believe what you say and practice it as well (which i can truly respect and in which case will no longer argue with you).(or 3.- you are insecure in your beliefs and hate the thought of being proven wrong.
In conclusion, this argument is futile and will get neither of us anywhere. I am not going to suddenly believe in god (if that is what you are trying to make me do), and i am not going to persuade you to not believe in god (which i am most certainly not trying to do. I respect your opinion and have only one question- do you believe any one religion is true or deserves to be the one main religion in the world over all other?
with that i will make no further arguments or comments on this topic with you.

Wow....So you claim to state that you don't view yourself, in a holier light, and in the same breath claim to be more mature and make random assumptions about me? Listen kid, I normally do not talk down to people but it's necessary in this case. You are have no clue how the world operates. It's very clear by the way you talk and even present your ideas. You deny facts, and logic. Instead you treat your opinions and assumptions as though they are somehow superior (and you say you're not arrogant) to my facts and well thought out arguments. Any mature person bothering to read this thread could see your ignorance.

You are not a doctor, you have no idea who I am, and your judgements are clearly just some brainwashed way of thinking. You don't know my experiences, or my impulses. You don't know what I'm like outside of this discussion, yet you continue to claim you know why I'm saying what I'm saying. All of your arguments are contradictory and somewhat hypocritical.

And once again you are wrong. This argument isn't futile. Sure I may not convince you, and you may not convince me, but we are expressing our opinions and ideals. If you want to say that you that your opinion is futile be my guest, but speak for yourself. My opinion matters, and I think any person would have a mind would say the same about their own opinion.

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Wow....So you claim to state that you don't view yourself, in a holier light, and in the same breath claim to be more mature and make random assumptions about me? Listen kid, I normally do not talk down to people but it's necessary in this case. You are have no clue how the world operates. It's very clear by the way you talk and even present your ideas. You deny facts, and logic. Instead you treat your opinions and assumptions as though they are somehow superior (and you say you're not arrogant) to my facts and well thought out arguments. Any mature person bothering to read this thread could see your ignorance.

You are not a doctor, you have no idea who I am, and your judgements are clearly just some brainwashed way of thinking. You don't know my experiences, or my impulses. You don't know what I'm like outside of this discussion, yet you continue to claim you know why I'm saying what I'm saying. All of your arguments are contradictory and somewhat hypocritical.

And once again you are wrong. This argument isn't futile. Sure I may not convince you, and you may not convince me, but we are expressing our opinions and ideals. If you want to say that you that your opinion is futile be my guest, but speak for yourself. My opinion matters, and I think any person would have a mind would say the same about their own opinion.
gamabunta, thats kinda messed lets just drop it dude

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:31 PM
Yes. Debate is good, argument is bad. There's nothing wrong with exchanging ideas, but everyone needs to not take disagreement personally.

Agreed. People need to watch what they say though. You don't here me saying things like, "Atheists are just immature people, who are self revolving". On the otherside you here people saying things like, "Religious people are just uncomfortable with themselves, and need something to make them feel like they have a purpose". Obviously such arguments only lead to trouble because both sides can't claim to understand eachother, and if that's your only argument you might as well not post.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:31 PM
Yes. Debate is good, argument is bad. There's nothing wrong with exchanging ideas, but everyone needs to not take disagreement personally.
I agree, debate is healthy, arguments only lead to war.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:32 PM
gamabunta, thats kinda messed lets just drop it dude

How is that messed up? It's the truth. It's kind of messed up that he can make assumptions about me, but I can't make assumptions about him. Apparently his feelings are more important than mine or something.

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 10:34 PM
How is that messed up? It's the truth. It's kind of messed up that he can make assumptions about me, but I can't make assumptions about him. Apparently his feelings are more important than mine or something.
im talking about the arguement, why dont we just like drop it, no one wins and no one loses?

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:34 PM
i never said you cant make assumptions about me, assume away. but why do feel the need to argue with everyone not on your side? rhetorical question

Err
06-28-2009, 10:36 PM
Yes. Debate is good, argument is bad. There's nothing wrong with exchanging ideas, but everyone needs to not take disagreement personally.

Yes! It will make discussions like these much more interesting. Instead of people putting other people down for their beliefs, we can share and argue (the good kind) each others ideas. We learn why people believe what they believe and why they have such strong convection's in their beliefs. It's about having an open-mind, and knowing that peoples beliefs may differ from yours. It should not be about who's right and wrong, it's about ideas, opinions, and personal beliefs that makes every human unique. Enjoy the diversity.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Everyone has a right to be here and discuss the topic just like you.

Let me give you some advice, people will take your opinion better if you try to seem a little less irate.

I am neither Christian nor atheist.

Personally, I agree with you that life and the universe is not a random event. I just don't believe in the same idea of creation as you do.

However, I disagree that Christians have not persecuted others in the name of religion. King Olaf of Norway forced people to convert under pain of death, and not simple hanging or something; he would torture them. Charlemagne conducted yearly campaigns against the Saxons in an attempt to forcibly convert them. The Wends of Rugen Island were converted by military force as well. If that is not Christians persecuting others in the name of religion I don't know what is.

I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with you in all aspects.

That's just it, I'm not irrate. I'm being matter of fact. I shouldn't have to beat around the truth to state the truth behind my arguments. Listen to yourself though. You're defending people who are telling me not to post to what they have to say. So apparently they have the right to post and be heard, but I don't?

And you're right about persecution. Some people bearing the name "Christian" have persecuted people before. Ofc they were wrong, and obviously weren't doing it based on what the bible says. Jesus peaches peace and love (not apathy), and doesn't advocate any sort of persecution.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Yes! It will make discussions like these much more interesting. Instead of people putting other people down for their beliefs, we can share and argue (the good kind) each others ideas. We learn why people believe what they believe and why they have such strong convection's in their beliefs. It's about having an open-mind, and knowing that peoples beliefs may differ from yours. It should not be about who's right and wrong, it's about ideas, opinions, and personal beliefs that makes every human unique. Enjoy the diversity.


Well said.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:38 PM
i never said you cant make assumptions about me, assume away. but why do feel the need to argue with everyone not on your side? rhetorical question

Both you and BlackKing claimed you were done posting here. Were you just lying?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:40 PM
im talking about the arguement, why dont we just like drop it, no one wins and no one loses?

A debate is a civilized argument. Arguments are synonymous for ideas. And no I back up what I say, this is a discussion not something I need to run away from.

Death Wish
06-28-2009, 10:40 PM
I believe in an invisible man in the sky more than magical never ever land where elements and particles appear out of nowhere because they want to and form a ball and explode creating galaxies with life in them.

Something created us. And it wasn't something lifeless that appeared out of nowhere and blew up, creating this universe.

Idk and nobody honestly does. I'll tell you when I'm dead.

What are we anyways? Why should we care? Why do we want...?

KyuubiAkatsuki
06-28-2009, 10:41 PM
A debate is a civilized argument. Arguments are synonymous for ideas. And no I back up what I say, this is a discussion not something I need to run away from.
im not talking about running away, besides right now it may seem like a civilized arguement, but sooner or later, its gonna turn ugly, and it wont be a civilized arguement anymore

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Yes! It will make discussions like these much more interesting. Instead of people putting other people down for their beliefs, we can share and argue (the good kind) each others ideas. We learn why people believe what they believe and why they have such strong convection's in their beliefs. It's about having an open-mind, and knowing that peoples beliefs may differ from yours. It should not be about who's right and wrong, it's about ideas, opinions, and personal beliefs that makes every human unique. Enjoy the diversity.

Err we managed to have a fairly mature discussion at the beginning of the topic right? We argued back and forth, and when it was over it was over. When less immature get involved they tend to be less accepting. In other words, they can say whatever they want, but I may not, in their eyes.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:44 PM
I believe in an invisible man in the sky more than magical never ever land where elements and particles appear out of nowhere because they want to and form a ball and explode creating galaxies with life in them.

Something created us. And it wasn't something lifeless that appeared out of nowhere and blew up, creating this universe.

Idk and nobody honestly does. I'll tell you when I'm dead.

What are we anyways? Why should we care? Why do we want...?

Exactly. I don't believe exactly what you beleive, but that doesn't matter. To me it's obvious something created, what that is, is up for debate. People need to differeniate creationism and religion. I'm a creationist. Yes I'm a christian. This isn't a debate about religion though, it's a debate about whether or not we were created or not.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:44 PM
maybe your not being irate, but people obviously people dont like the way you are acting, so get a hint and stop, and dont come back and say "so you are aloud to state your beliefs and I'm not?" how old are you. not a rhetorical question

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:46 PM
im not talking about running away, besides right now it may seem like a civilized arguement, but sooner or later, its gonna turn ugly, and it wont be a civilized arguement anymore

That's alright. Just learn to defend what you believe, no matter how ugly the otherside is being. Sometimes you've got to be blatant and unforgiving in your arguments, but it's necessary. You can't show someone who's convinced they're right, that they are wrong, by trying to be best friends with them. It just doesn't work.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:47 PM
Exactly. I don't believe exactly what you beleive. To me it's obvious something created, what that is, is up for debate. People need to differeniate creationism and religion. I'm a creationist. Yes I'm a christian. This isn't a debate about religion though, it's a debate about whether or not we were created or not.

your wrong, this forum is a place to state your beliefs and why you believe them, not to shoot people down about their beliefs.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:48 PM
That's alright. Just learn to defend what you believe, no matter how ugly the otherside is being. Sometimes you've got to be blatant and unforgiving in your arguments, but it's necessary. You can't show someone who's convinced they're right, that they are wrong, by trying to be best friends with them. It just doesn't work.

that attitude is what starts a war

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:48 PM
maybe your not being irate, but people obviously people dont like the way you are acting, so get a hint and stop, and dont come back and say "so you are aloud to state your beliefs and I'm not?" how old are you. not a rhetorical question

Guess what? This is the internet I can act however I want. And I've not been any more rude in my arguments than you. In fact all my "offensive" statements have been in the form of hypothetical situations. My age is in my quote, although I don't see any reason why you need to know my age.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:49 PM
that attitude is what starts a war

No it isn't. That's not offensive in anyway. If you'd like to be offended then be my guest. Then you would be starting the war. Don't try to blame your actions, on my attitude and rhetoric.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:49 PM
your wrong, this forum is a place to state your beliefs and why you believe them, not to shoot people down about their beliefs.

Wow did you even read what I said? I said this is an argument about creation not religion.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:52 PM
its obviously impossible to get any where with you so im not going to try, just drop the argument and move on to some other 15 year old

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:53 PM
its obviously impossible to get any where with you so im not going to try, just drop the argument and move on to some other 15 year old

Hey I want you to get a mirror and reflect that statement back at you. I'm making coherent arguments, not just stating random accusations. And I will be really amazed if you drop the argument seeing as you've said that twice and came back.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 10:55 PM
and this may the internet and you can do what you want within legality but that doesnt mean people will like and admire you for it, but im guessing your not trying to make friends here, and i'd have to say that for thinking about and making an argument based on a belief i've held for little more than 2 years, i'd say a 15 year old has done pretty well here, and goodbye.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 10:56 PM
That's just it, I'm not irrate. I'm being matter of fact. I shouldn't have to beat around the truth to state the truth behind my arguments. Listen to yourself though. You're defending people who are telling me not to post to what they have to say. So apparently they have the right to post and be heard, but I don't?

Of course you have the right to speak your opinion. I apologize if I came across otherwise.


And you're right about persecution. Some people bearing the name "Christian" have persecuted people before. Ofc they were wrong, and obviously weren't doing it based on what the bible says. Jesus peaches peace and love (not apathy), and doesn't advocate any sort of persecution.

It is true that these are the actions of men, but so much of Christianity is a product of the Roman Empire and its successors and was used by these entities to control the masses. I am not discounting the religion, I just wonder what changes may have been made to suit this goal.

There are some theological points that don't add up to me as well. For example, I don't understand the belief of many Christians that good people will be excluded from heaven if they believe in the "wrong" god. I am also confused by the warlike nature of the Christian god as presented in the Old Testament, and the sudden change in attitude toward pacifism in the New Testament. This apparent shift puzzles me. What are your thoughts?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 10:59 PM
and this may the internet and you can do what you want within legality but that doesnt mean people will like and admire you for it, but im guessing your not trying to make friends here, and i'd have to say that for thinking about and making an argument based on a belief i've held for little more than 2 years, i'd say a 15 year old has done pretty well here, and goodbye.

Hmm... I thought you were gone last post. Oh wait is that offensive that I'm pointing out your lie? Should I apologize for showing you your wrong?

And you're right, I'm not here to make friends. If I was I wouldn't discuss controversial issues. I've got enough friends IRL, I can afford to stand up for what I believe in online. And no you haven't done very well. All you've done is accuse me of being insensitive. Anyone who actually read the arguments could see you're claims were crushed in the first post. That's a fact. Oh wait should I feel bad for being brutally honest?

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:04 PM
i apologize to you for starting the argument, gamabunta

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:06 PM
Gamabunta, some of the things you're saying make sense. Not entirely to me, but they do to an extent.



Just a tiny last question...Would your expeirences or impulses and the way you are have do do with why you think so critically of this? You don't have to answer.


Reason I asked this:

(Not trying to start anything...Just curious.)


I'm glad you made that post. My opinion of you has raised considerably. My experience with this paticular issue isn't why I'm debating with brutal honesty, I'm just a firery debator. I always have been, if you're wrong about something or your logic is bad I will point it out. My experience have shaped my world view, and have helped influence what I believe is truth and what isn't truth.

You honestly don't need to be afraid to ask me a question. I don't mind that. I mind when people assume that I'm somehow brainwashed into believing something, when my arguments are more coherent than their own. I got onto you earlier because you assumed I was bashing you in some way, when I was just pointing out what I saw that didn't make sense with your statements.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:07 PM
gamabunta
i typically not the type to get into arguments like this, i usually just try to use humor to avoid them, and you've shown me i should have kept doing that

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:09 PM
i apologize to you for starting the argument, gamabunta

It wasn't really an argument. You made a claim, I refuted it. You then made an assumption about me, and I told you were completely wrong. You don't need to apologize. Just don't make assumptions, if you don't want others assuming about yourself.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:11 PM
gamabunta
i typically not the type to get into arguments like this, i usually just try to use humor to avoid them, and you've shown me i should have kept doing that

That's the exact opposite of what you should have seen. If anything you should stand up for your beliefs no matter what. Like I said don't assume personal issues or make accusations like that and these debates will go alot smoother. And it didn't help that before I responded to your post I saw you say screw gama. That didn't help at all.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:11 PM
my assumptions were wrong, i assumed you were arguing because you felt you needed to prove yourself in some way, but you have expressed differently and i respect that, debate dropped.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:13 PM
my assumptions were wrong, i assumed you were arguing because you felt you needed to prove yourself in some way, but you have expressed differently and i respect that, debate dropped.

lol, The debate is still ongoing. It always will be until the end of humanity. Some will believe in God, some won't. The personal arguments are ofc dropped. I'm willing to be reasonable if you are :)

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:14 PM
i'm sorry about saying "screw gama" it was wrong, but i do have a reputation for being irrational and not thinking before acting. i shoudnt have said that with out knowing anything about you. i was fired up about my first time debating a real topic and not weather or not i like a certain show.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:15 PM
reasonable from now on i shall attempt to be.

Black King
06-28-2009, 11:15 PM
I'm glad you made that post. My opinion of you has raised considerably. My experience with this paticular issue isn't why I'm debating with brutal honesty, I'm just a firery debator. I always have been, if you're wrong about something or your logic is bad I will point it out. My experience have shaped my world view, and have helped influence what I believe is truth and what isn't truth.

You honestly don't need to be afraid to ask me a question. I don't mind that. I mind when people assume that I'm somehow brainwashed into believing something, when my arguments are more coherent than their own. I got onto you earlier because you assumed I was bashing you in some way, when I was just pointing out what I saw that didn't make sense with your statements.

I guess this exlpains it. Glad to see your viewpoint.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:16 PM
I always have been, if you're wrong about something or your logic is bad I will point it out.


How do you know that someone's religious beliefs or lack thereof are wrong? Have you personally met your god? Did he personally speak with you? I am not being a jerk am merely curious why you think that you are in a position to say definitively that the beliefs of others are completely wrong.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:16 PM
i'm sorry about saying "screw gama" it was wrong, but i do have a reputation for being irrational and not thinking before acting. i shoudnt have said that with out knowing anything about you. i was fired up about my first time debating a real topic and not weather or not i like a certain show.

lol, You don't need to worry. I said I would drop those personal arguments if you did. You dropped them so they are dropped. I don't need an apology. I can take attitude just as much as I can dish it out.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:18 PM
lol, You don't need to worry. I said I would drop those personal arguments if you did. You dropped them so they are dropped. I don't need an apology. I can take attitude just as much as I can dish it out.
lol- i dont think ive ever met someone quite like you, and i certainly dont mean that in a bad way.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:20 PM
In my experience religious discussions almost always get heated because everyone believes very much in what they are saying.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:20 PM
How do you know that someone's religious beliefs or lack thereof are wrong. Have you personally met your god? Did he personally speak with you? I am not being a jerk I am merely curious why you think that you are in a position to say definitively that the beliefs of others are completely wrong.

I never claimed God was a proven fact (although I do believe he exists). If you read the argument you would've seen them arguing that history concerning the bible was just a fairy tale. It's common knowledge that the bible is a historical and lawbound document, as much as it is a relgious document. I AM in a position to state other peoples claims are wrong, when it comes to facts. If they claimed that lightning could strike a pile of goo and create a cell, the most complex piece of machinery in the universe, I'm going to tell them they are wrong. If they assume that this somehow proves God doesn't exist, I'm going to show them their logic is wrong as well. Please stop trying to pick at words and phrases from the sidelines. It only makes it seem as though you want to argue petty issues.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:22 PM
In my experience religious discussions almost always get heated because everyone believes very much in what they are saying.

Well this isn't a relgious debate. At least it shouldn't be. It's supposed to be a debate of creationism vs atheism. Those who argue against religion are grasping at straws.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:24 PM
lol- i dont think ive ever met someone quite like you, and i certainly dont mean that in a bad way.

lol. I'm not going to comment on that.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:25 PM
haha- thats gamabunta for you, cant resist debates.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:25 PM
by the way gama, where did you get that name from?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:27 PM
by the way gama, where did you get that name from?

Naruto a popular manga and tv show :p He's the giant frog btw.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:27 PM
the cheif toad?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:28 PM
the cheif toad?

Yeah I've been trying to find some new recruits to get the monkey king and the turtle summon names.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:29 PM
Let's see what Thunder's post will have to say.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:30 PM
I never claimed God was a proven fact (although I do believe he exists). If you read the argument you would've seen them arguing that history concerning the bible was just a fairy tale. It's common knowledge that the bible is a historical and lawbound document, as much as it is a relgious document. I AM in a position to state other peoples claims are wrong, when it comes to facts. If they claimed that lightning could strike a pile of goo and create a cell, the most complex piece of machinery in the universe, I'm going to tell them they are wrong. If they assume that this somehow proves God doesn't exist, I'm going to show them their logic is wrong as well. Please stop trying to pick at words and phrases from the sidelines. It only makes it seem as though you want to argue petty issues.

I am not picking at words or phrases. I simply notice that you say that something is definitively wrong when no one really knows how the universe was created. It doesn't prove the existence of the Christian god if the universe is not random. There are any number of creation stories from across the globe any one or all of them could be true. Who knows?

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:32 PM
I am not picking at words or phrases. I simply notice that you say that something is definitively wrong when no one really knows how the universe was created. It doesn't prove the existence of the Christian god if the universe is not random. There are any number of creation stories from across the globe any one or all of them could be true. Who knows?

I never said that. In fact allow me to retrieve a quote that directly contradicts your claim that I said it was a fact.

That's religion again. Not creation. How we were created is not the argument.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:33 PM
I believe in an invisible man in the sky more than magical never ever land where elements and particles appear out of nowhere because they want to and form a ball and explode creating galaxies with life in them.

Something created us. And it wasn't something lifeless that appeared out of nowhere and blew up, creating this universe.

Idk and nobody honestly does. I'll tell you when I'm dead.

What are we anyways? Why should we care? Why do we want...?

Exactly. I don't believe exactly what you beleive, but that doesn't matter. To me it's obvious something created, what that is, is up for debate. People need to differeniate creationism and religion. I'm a creationist. Yes I'm a christian. This isn't a debate about religion though, it's a debate about whether or not we were created or not.

See I even agreed with him about the fact that no one knows. I said to me it was obvious, but I didn't say it was a fact.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:36 PM
chief toad or not its passing 1:30 here and these young bones have to get up early tomorrow to water their grampas' garden. farewell for now. its been intense.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:37 PM
chief toad or not its passing 1:30 here and these young bones have to get up early tomorrow to water their grampas' garden. farewell for now. its been intense.

lol It's 2:39 here and I was about to go ot bed when we started this.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:39 PM
See I even agreed with him about the fact that no one knows. I said to me it was obvious, but I didn't say it was a fact.

I agree with you there. You seemed to be saying in other posts that you were stating absolute fact about the creation of the universe, but must have misunderstood. I guess I should take the wisest advice I know of and never get involved in these things.

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:40 PM
lol It's 2:39 here and I was about to go ot bed when we started this.

Yeah, same here.

Gamabunta
06-28-2009, 11:41 PM
I agree with you there. You seemed to be saying in other posts that you were stating absolute fact about the creation of the universe, but must have misunderstood.

That's fine. I'm careful what phrasing I use. I wouldn't say that, as it would only be ammunition against myself. Good night for now.

#1narutofan
06-28-2009, 11:41 PM
haha. sorry to keep you from rest. toodles (for real this time).

ThunderSpirit
06-28-2009, 11:43 PM
That's fine. I'm careful what phrasing I use. I wouldn't say that, as it would only be ammunition against myself. Good night for now.


Night.

Err
06-29-2009, 09:26 AM
Please stay on topic, if you have something personal to say just PM that member. I would like this thread to stay on topic and not derail into another discussion. Thanks!

Death Wish
06-29-2009, 11:08 AM
Nobody's fighting.

Ya ya, we all agree what this forum is about.

Now maybe talk about it instead of trying to find a way of putting someone elses post down by saying it's too judgemental of the other's opinion.
It's not like anyone is saying "God is fake and you're an idiot to believe in a god" or "Darwin is a complete mental case, you're all half retarded to not believe in a god"

So calm down lol.

Post what you think without making insulting remarks to the other opinion and it's allowed.

(It's just annoying seeing 20 posts in 1 night about how someone was posting wrong, someone deffending theirself, someone apologizing, and people not even talking about the main subject) Lets be mature. lolz

Edit:
Please stay on topic, if you have something personal to say just PM that member. I would like this thread to stay on topic and not derail into another discussion. Thanks!

ya... (didn't see that)

Err
06-29-2009, 10:23 PM
I absolutely don't.
Why don't you believe in God?

I guess I must of missed your post the first time.

Err
07-06-2009, 10:27 AM
bump ^_^

jenny
07-06-2009, 11:03 AM
i believe in God.i also believe god has a sence of humor.n i have a question,if we were made by monkeys,y arnt monkeys exctinct?

Avian
07-06-2009, 01:18 PM
No. There's just too much evidence proving God isn't real.

danboy
07-06-2009, 01:46 PM
No. There's just too much evidence proving God isn't real.

I am atheist but i look at both sides
belef
yes but there things that we can't for instance the universe and us if god placed earth 1 mile too close to the sun we'll burn 1 mile too far we'll freeze no one could make a system so perfect because it's very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very unlikely that we were made out of sheer luck.
no belief
many many many many many plp died in wars of religion like protestant and catholics they fought cause of how the bible interpreted and followed if he was real he would've stop the senseless bloodshed in a way cause they use the same bible so same god in a sense were considered his children so was he in the time of crisis

it's our choice to believe or to not believe or he would've smite us or truly doesn't exist

vampire Lycan
07-06-2009, 01:54 PM
i don't believe in god

jenny
07-06-2009, 02:20 PM
i don't believe in god

ok,but y!u have to say y.

jenny
07-06-2009, 02:22 PM
No. There's just too much evidence proving God isn't real.

there is also to many evidents that he is real.

NaruSakufluff4ever
07-06-2009, 04:37 PM
no i dont believe in god, one my family isnt any religion, and two im a very skeptical person when it comes to religions i just dont see a lot of proof and we cannot prove if the bible is true or false and holy events dont really register as holy when there is an explanation possible i do believe in ghosts, this tv show shhowed clear evidence of ghosts existing(one episode had a voice recording of a girl singing in the ship's bath,another of a ghost saying "Sereno has it", and another of when they didnt do anything, the recorder started making scratching sounds. too much evidence too deny ghosts being not real)

Lou!e
07-06-2009, 09:01 PM
no i dont believe in god, one my family isnt any religion, and two im a very skeptical person when it comes to religions i just dont see a lot of proof and we cannot prove if the bible is true or false and holy events dont really register as holy when there is an explanation possible i do believe in ghosts, this tv show shhowed clear evidence of ghosts existing(one episode had a voice recording of a girl singing in the ship's bath,another of a ghost saying "Sereno has it", and another of when they didnt do anything, the recorder started making scratching sounds. too much evidence too deny ghosts being not real)

You believe in ghost but not God, this is odd...You know why some ghost exsist right? They have to pass over, but they never do for certain reasons like scared of being judged, this typically happens to people who die unexpectedly, ehhh watch more shows about RL ghost stories. I watched a story about a ghost today it scared the s#!t out of me...

Lou!e
07-06-2009, 09:04 PM
there is also to many evidents that he is real.

And what(or where) is this evidence? I believe God does exsist, but the bible was written by mortal man and man tell lies, it is more of a belief.

#1narutofan
07-06-2009, 09:25 PM
how many atheists are on here anyway?

Vaan
07-06-2009, 09:27 PM
Well I do because I do think everything needs to have a beginning.Even our Universe just wont pop out of nowhere.

vampire Lycan
07-06-2009, 09:28 PM
me^^ i just don't believe he could really be there watching us do everything and controlling our lives

Lou!e
07-06-2009, 09:30 PM
me^^ i just don't believe he could really be there

Why you say this?

#1narutofan
07-06-2009, 09:32 PM
how many god damned *laughs to self* atheists are on here!?