Speed & Character System Explanation.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Now, I'm sure most of you(Bacon, Kaz, Hally, etc) have been at great opposition on the Mach and speed system scalings of the BFV's. Than again, a number of you don't even know what it is or was to begin with. So here I am, wasting my damn time where I could be learning my grappling techniques in martial arts or debating on the Theory of Relativity, re-posting the rules that I had laid out and countlessly told in the past again and again. Jeez.

Explanation of Mach
If you have seen the generously supplied links and somehow are still wondering on the foundations of the Mach scaling system, there I shall briefly explain to you how it is.

Mach is the speed of an object of fluid travelling throughout the air at an approximately speed, divided by the speed of sound in the environment that the object is travelling through, including air pressure, friction, and temperature. It is commonly and generally used to represent the speed of an object travelling close or above Mach 1, aka the speed of sound. As it obviously shows, it has relations towards aerodynamics and physics. In it's true sense, it is the speed of the source(the object relative to the medium) to the speed of sound in the medium. In the more easier sense, each Mach digit represents the movement of sound, aka 341 meters per second as rounded. To see higher Mach numbers, simply multiply it. For example, if you wanted to say, see how fast Mach 3 is, than multiply 341 with 3. Chan-Ga-Boom!

Now, in standard areas, like a field or something, the level of the medium is relatively sea-level, therefore making it basically a zero number on the pressure scale. However, that is not when taking in pressure or friction, which can definitely slow one down. Meanwhile, other, more specialized areas with higher or lower temperatures, can also have the same result as friction has to massive speeds.

Characters' Types

Now, to include diversity and not make this as boring as it already is are character classes. There are four types of characters, and they are -

Balanced Type.
Attack Type.
Defensive Type.
Speed Type.

They each have a mixture of ups and downs. Most people who have played any games where they had included different classes or races to choose from, like Final Fantasy, Modern Warfare, God of War, etc, will easily recognize the differences, but for those living under a rock, I'll be nice to y'all and tell them in order.

A Balanced type is the easiest type out of the four Classes, due to having basically, the most of all worlds. However, their 'stats' are more average, mediocre if you will. It means that their speed will never beat a Speed Type's speed, or their Defense isn't as impressive as a Defensive's Type. Get the idea here?

An Attack Type is one who focuses on attack. Since he who focuses on offensive, he lacks in defensive, therefore being able to be less versed in defensive techniques or abilities like Hierro than a Defensive Type or even a Balanced Type. However, due to being rather close to a Speed Type, he has slightly better speed than a Balanced Type's.

Defensive Types are best at defending. They can tank the most and will probably be the last to go down, if they ever go down to begin with. But seriously, they have great defensive powers. However, oppositely their counterparts, they lack in attacking techniques or abilities like Bala.

Last of all, and the most controversial, are the famed Speed Types. They have the greatest speeds of all the other characters, but due to that, they will have to give up a chunk of their Defensive and Attack stats, making them lacking in those areas. But they're fast as hell.

Now last thing is that I will say that it is obligatory that you read this. If you are, good for you. Now anyways, is that you are not to boast of your character. Examples? Like saying that your Defensive Type can tank any and all attacks from your opponent, or stating that your Speed Type's attacks are too fast for your opponent. By the way, this is if both you and your opponent are in the same state(both in Second Release, for example). Otherwise, the person in the greater state will have an advantage over the one in the lesser state.

Form Scalings for Arrancars

Balanced Type -

Base: Slow Intermediately - Supersonic+; Low Hypersonic with Enhancer.
First Release: Low Hypersonic - Higher Hypersonic; Hypersonic+ with Enhancer
Second Release: Hypersonic+ - Mach 15; Mach 16.3 maximum with Enhancers

Attack Type -

Base: Slow Intermediately - Supersonic+; Low Hypersonic with Enhancer.
First Release: Low Hypersonic - Higher Hypersonic; Hypersonic+ with Enhancer
Second Release: Hypersonic+ - Mach 15; Mach 16.5 maximum with Enhancers

Defensive Type -


Base: Slow Intermediately - Supersonic+; Low Hypersonic with Enhancer.
First Release: Low Hypersonic - Higher Hypersonic; Hypersonic+ with Enhancer
Second Release: Hypersonic+ - Mach 15; Mach 16 maximum with Enhancers

Speed Type -


Base: Slow Intermediately - Supersonic+; Low Hypersonic with Enhancer.
First Release: Low Hypersonic - Higher Hypersonic; Hypersonic+ with Enhancer
Second Release: Hypersonic+ - Mach 15; Mach 17 maximum with Enhancers

Great Links
Good links regarding the subject at hand or Mach speeds.

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Speed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number
Note - This link only covers up to Mach 10, which is the beginning of Hypersonic+.

[Devroux]

ZOMG YOU GUYS! Was that an organized conversation or what? That was awesome.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

'Ey Jun, delete all the irrelevant posts please.

[junchurikioftheleaf]

k sure

[Devroux]

Way to ruin that...

[junchurikioftheleaf]

Way to ruin that...
lulz `:P

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Added some crap.

[Noctis Arashi]

I don't fit in any character type. Balanced...I guess.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

I don't fit in any character type. Balanced...I guess.

Balanced or Defensive.

[Noctis Arashi]

But I have bala's and shiz.

There needs to be an adaptive character type. Like it varies on the battle position.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

So?

What does battle position have to do with character types?

[Noctis Arashi]

So?

What does battle position have to do with character types?
Your character type can vary.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

And once again I ask, what does battle position have to do with character type?

Yes, your character varies, on four types - Speed, Balanced, Attack, Defensive.

[junchurikioftheleaf]

i dont know how to fit balanced wouldent work because my character leans more depending on the state im in base im mostly sword work 1st release i gain a bunch of attack abilitys like skysplitter,zenkai and my armored left arm and then second release im a freakin monster crazy living armor a monstrous left arm a blade generating right arm twin tails poisoned talons and tons of attacks and a few defences then I can still proceed into my art of breaking and that gives me access to faster speed duel stance and more stuff

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

i dont know how to fit balanced wouldent work because my character leans more depending on the state im in base im mostly sword work 1st release i gain a bunch of attack abilitys like skysplitter,zenkai and my armored left arm and then second release im a freakin monster crazy living armor a monstrous left arm a blade generating right arm twin tails poisoned talons and tons of attacks and a few defences then I can still proceed into my art of breaking and that gives me access to faster speed duel stance and more stuff

Attack, since you have 'few' defenses.

[junchurikioftheleaf]

Attack, since you have 'few' defenses.
lol :| but my armor makes for a crazy defense `:|

[Rotate]

Are these in effect now? Can they be in effect after the current war going on right now?

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

You're still Attack.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Are these in effect now? Can they be in effect after the current war going on right now?

They have always been in effect since the start of SG.

[Noctis Arashi]

I adapt though. I could be a speed type, or a defense type, or an attack type.

[Devroux]

I like Mach speeds. But when they are in place I'm a high balance type...

[Bacon]

Vat my friend, I like the character types so that everyone can get a sense of what their character can do,but don't you think this is a bit excessive? To be honest, it's much easier to assume that we are all equal in speed,strength, and power until we use a specific legitimate tactic to bolster ourselves.

By keeping these damned rules, you are allowing abuse by a few people to say they can move mach 20 just because they are a speed type with lots of experience under their belt. Furthermore, this doesn't stem god modding anymore than my idea since there's always(sorry shinamarou) going to be someone who uses bogus logic to overpower themselves by stating how strong they are.

While I admit this is not the worst idea,it does contradict the speed of bleach characters and their ability to launch attacks. No arrancar can launch a cero in less than one second, but this is just me following bleach closer than you I suppose.

At the same time, unless a real system of doing things is implemented, these rules will fall on deaf ears. In some great fights, people have to contend with multiple threats and make arbitrary judgments on how powerful they will be and if their attack was sufficient to counter their opponent. Now you want people to calculate their speed when their in the air or at sea level? You want someone to calculate how fast their kido is in comparison to a cero? It's not the worst idea,but it's definitely over the top for Bleach Freeverse. At least in it's present state, the only thing that will come of this is abuse.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Vat my friend, I like the character types so that everyone can get a sense of what their character can do,but don't you think this is a bit excessive? To be honest, it's much easier to assume that we are all equal in speed,strength, and power until we use a specific legitimate tactic to bolster ourselves.

By keeping these damned rules, you are allowing abuse by a few people to say they can move mach 20 just because they are a speed type with lots of experience under their belt. Furthermore, this doesn't stem god modding anymore than my idea since there's always(sorry shinamarou) going to be someone who uses bogus logic to overpower themselves by stating how strong they are.

While I admit this is not the worst idea,it does contradict the speed of bleach characters and their ability to launch attacks. No arrancar can launch a cero in less than one second, but this is just me following bleach closer than you I suppose.

At the same time, unless a real system of doing things is implemented, these rules will fall on deaf ears. In some great fights, people have to contend with multiple threats and make arbitrary judgments on how powerful they will be and if their attack was sufficient to counter their opponent. Now you want people to calculate their speed when their in the air or at sea level? You want someone to calculate how fast their kido is in comparison to a cero? It's not the worst idea,but it's definitely over the top for Bleach Freeverse. At least in it's present state, the only thing that will come of this is abuse.

Yes it could be much easier, but it will be much more boring. It also loses a huge gap of realism. Everyone in reality has their diverse abilities; that's why we have people lifting two hundred pounds and than another one running a mile in two minutes. No one is truly the same as one another, and therefore, it takes things up a notch, adds a spice to the flavor. After all, it would be boring to death if you fight someone with their character having nearly the same traits as yours.

You read the thing? It states 'maximum speed'. That means total speed someone can ever get up to, even if they use like one million enhancers. Also, may you supply me of said bogus logic?

Like I had stated in the thread, and countless times before in battles, no one in BFV can conjure up an average Cero in less than one second, due to the fact that said Cero takes three seconds at the very least. Meanwhile, a Starrk Cero, meaning a very crappy Cero, requires one and a half second. And I do hope that you realize that this is it being mild, because Ulqi in Bleach fired his Obscura Cero in less than second.

And like I said, you don't have to calculate it. Just use the 341 m/s rule and multiply it per Mach digit. But try to use some common sense; for example, if you're in an area where the gravity is multiplied by fifty-nine times, you couldn't move as fast as you can in a place with an atmosphere like Earth.
I adapt though. I could be a speed type, or a defense type, or an attack type.

Than change your character for it to be one type. Otherwise, a, you're overpowering, or b, you're still a Balanced.

[Bacon]

Yes it could be much easier, but it will be much more boring. It also loses a huge gap of realism. Everyone in reality has their diverse abilities; that's why we have people lifting two hundred pounds and than another one running a mile in two minutes. No one is truly the same as one another, and therefore, it takes things up a notch, adds a spice to the flavor. After all, it would be boring to death if you fight someone with their character having nearly the same traits as yours.

You read the thing? It states 'maximum speed'. That means total speed someone can ever get up to, even if they use like one million enhancers. Also, may you supply me of said bogus logic?

Like I had stated in the thread, and countless times before in battles, no one in BFV can conjure up an average Cero in less than one second, due to the fact that said Cero takes three seconds at the very least. Meanwhile, a Starrk Cero, meaning a very crappy Cero, requires one and a half second. And I do hope that you realize that this is it being mild, because Ulqi in Bleach fired his Obscura Cero in less than second.

And like I said, you don't have to calculate it. Just use the 341 m/s rule and multiply it per Mach digit. But try to use some common sense; for example, if you're in an area where the gravity is multiplied by fifty-nine times, you couldn't move as fast as you can in a place with an atmosphere like Earth.


Than change your character for it to be one type. Otherwise, a, you're overpowering, or b, you're still a Balanced.

I read the maximum speeds and I am sure big supporters such as Yori did as well,but the fact remains the same. He made his character move beyond mach 16 out of thin air;just as shin did when he broke the skyscrapers with a few DBZ style punches.

As for realism, I am far from that Vat because I try to create powers outside the box using occult matters as my base for attacking. I use the fact that immersing anything with spirit energy may result in expanding the size of the object or mass and make it more durable.

As for my character type, I use tactics to get the upper hand while using real Roleplay elements to set myself apart from my adversaries. I use blubbery iron skin to withstand attacks and use my zanpaktou from within my arms. I use cero in the form of a punch to create both blunt trauma while adding the force of the cero to amplify the effects of my attacks.By doing this, I have all but abolished making swords that are the equivalent to 1,000 grand rey cero or making a defense that can withstand anything.

That's how I fight, I produce realism through actual story of sort while justifying my powers by being like Kurosuchi(captain 12). Since he experiments on his body and actually obtains new powers in a twisted manner,why can I?

Last, why don't we have a fight using these rules then? To be honest, you won't get me on board with this unless I have proof that it works. I will expect a solid list of how fast certain techniques move such as a cero versus a base kido. If not then I stand by my original statement,it's a cool idea that is too much for Bleach Freeverse in it's current state.

[Anbu Leader]

*Writes stuff down on a i-Pad*
Alright, I got it.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

I like Mach speeds. But when they are in place I'm a high balance type...


I read the maximum speeds and I am sure big supporters such as Yori did as well,but the fact remains the same. He made his character move beyond mach 16 out of thin air;just as shin did when he broke the skyscrapers with a few DBZ style punches.

As for realism, I am far from that Vat because I try to create powers outside the box using occult matters as my base for attacking. I use the fact that immersing anything with spirit energy may result in expanding the size of the object or mass and make it more durable.

As for my character type, I use tactics to get the upper hand while using real Roleplay elements to set myself apart from my adversaries. I use blubbery iron skin to withstand attacks and use my zanpaktou from within my arms. I use cero in the form of a punch to create both blunt trauma while adding the force of the cero to amplify the effects of my attacks.By doing this, I have all but abolished making swords that are the equivalent to 1,000 grand rey cero or making a defense that can withstand anything.

That's how I fight, I produce realism through actual story of sort while justifying my powers by being like Kurosuchi(captain 12). Since he experiments on his body and actually obtains new powers in a twisted manner,why can I?

Last, why don't we have a fight using these rules then? To be honest, you won't get me on board with this unless I have proof that it works. I will expect a solid list of how fast certain techniques move such as a cero versus a base kido. If not then I stand by my original statement,it's a cool idea that is too much for Bleach Freeverse in it's current state.
Link? There also is the fact that's he is a Speed Character, allowing him to move up to Mach 17 or so. What does skyscraper busting have to do with pure speed? None. There also was the fact that I called out Shin's move as pure GM and he got punished for it.

All works of fiction have a sense of realism, meaning that they take something from reality, but do not have to take part in all of it. And yes, even series like DBZ do it. But however, some series, like the HST, have more higher senses of realism in it. Remove that realism, and the HST basically transforms into a DBZ.

As much as I love your inspiring creativity, I however will say what my Language Art teacher regularly states, "F.T.D." 'Follow the Directions', as I had stated earlier in the OP, when I said that everyone is realistic, which means that a Defensive Type can't tank any and all attacks, etc. Meanwhile, your supposedly '100 Gran Rey Cero' blade is nonexistent, because no one possesses it unfortunately, and even if they did, they would be called on the GM rule.

'Why can I?' Why ask yourself a question when you can answer it yourself?
*Writes stuff down on a i-Pad*
Alright, I got it.

[Bacon]

Link? There also is the fact that's he is a Speed Character, allowing him to move up to Mach 17 or so. What does skyscraper busting have to do with pure speed? None. There also was the fact that I called out Shin's move as pure GM and he got punished for it.
Here is my main criticism, you are placing everyone in an equal state of speed and giving them "enhancers". Your way of doing things really adds more stress and it sparks more controversy than it alleviates. I would have to search for this,but there are fighters surpassing mach 18.What's more is this one thing, you're establishing a bunch of rules which complicates things. As far as I can see, everyone seems to be able to ove at the same speed.

What does strength have to do with speed? It's a basic connection, someone will use these rules and break them by overpowering themselves in any aspect of their character. Setting rules won't stop god modding.
All works of fiction have a sense of realism, meaning that they take something from reality, but do not have to take part in all of it. And yes, even series like DBZ do it. But however, some series, like the HST, have more higher senses of realism in it. Remove that realism, and the HST basically transforms into a DBZ.
You seem to think that bleach characters can react to an attack moving almost 1 mile per second. Where's the realism in that?
As much as I love your inspiring creativity, I however will say what my Language Art teacher regularly states, "F.T.D." 'Follow the Directions', as I had stated earlier in the OP, when I said that everyone is realistic, which means that a Defensive Type can't tank any and all attacks, etc. Meanwhile, your supposedly '100 Gran Rey Cero' blade is nonexistent, because no one possesses it unfortunately, and even if they did, they would be called on the GM rule.
I like the idea, I suppose you haven't seen the recent fight btween yori and hally?

He struck hally over 1000 times in three seconds. I suppose my true criticism lies in numbers as a whole. When you say that a defensive type can move at mach 16,but a speed can rmove at 17. You are leaving room for attacks that travel mach 17. Which bleach character has counter something that fast?
'Why can I?' Why ask yourself a question when you can answer it yourself?
Actually, unless those links do note that certain kido can move at certain speeds, it does nothing to answer my quetion.

[Yori]

1000 Times <<< Rotation Cero Blades, Cero Dome that could kill you, Lightning, Clones (WTH). Seriously that move was my first real offensive move I put effort in

[Bacon]

1000 Times <<< Rotation Cero Blades, Cero Dome that could kill you, Lightning, Clones (WTH). Seriously that move was my first real offensive move I put effort in
I never liked the techniques,but my point hasn't been addressed yet. When does the number of attacks become unreasonable?

[Yori]

Oh all those were used in 1 - 2 moves also.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Than why beat around the bush for two pages? No I am not, because I gave them the freedom of having different types of characters, and utilizing enhancers or not. They can have any sort of speed they want, as long as it's in the right category and it's not ludicrous.

You do realize that there has been no major controversy on Mach speed excluding when it was first introduced, and the ones that you, Spleeny, or Kaz stir up?

What bunch of rules? The only rule is that you can't GM and the LS Rule. That isn't complicated at all, and definitely not towards you, seeing as that you can keep up with things like WS with pages of rules and regulations.

It has NO connection. No, you do not place Usain Bolt and Mariusz Pudzianowski in the same category at all, because they simply do not fit. It's called diversity. And like I said earlier somewhere, 'FTD'. "Follow The Directions", or it'd make you look foolish(not flame baiting nor insulting you). The rules, like two links and I had said constantly, is that you cannot overpowering your character. That's why there ain't people waltzing around being able to shoot ten Gran Rey Ceros at once, or martial artists being able to spam Blade of Totsukas, or Shinigami popping out Kidou 91s. And, oh yeah, by the way, your logic fails, because WS has rules, and they get along fine without GM. And so do we, because I and others actually do speak out on GM.

I don't 'think'. I know. And it's already been proved before. Don't believe me? Go in BG and say that Ichigo, Ice Ringer, Grimmjow, etc is only peak human in terms of speed. Or OBD. And oh yeah, btw, this is mild-ing it, because Bleach has characters able to move several miles per second, as some has calculated.

Looking at it now. And I have already seen that others had pointed out on GMs.

Those were physical sword slashes, I recall, which are purely attack speed. It's called diversity, and it's how the world revolves. It's why heavy-lifters can run as fast as Usain Bolt, and why Usain Bolt can't lift two hundreds pounds, and a heavy-lifter can. Diversity. Everyone specializes in there own thing in both fiction and nonfiction, meaning a series of ups and downs. The only exception to that is a jack of all trades, aka the Balanced Type, which however has averaged stats and can never manage to surpass, say a Speed Type in speed, or a Defensive Type in durability.

[Bacon]

because WS has rules, and they get along fine without GM. And so do we, because I and others actually do speak out on GM.Vat, I knew that would come up. I used to be a big war system enthusiast back when every attack and counter was a gamble,but now I think there is some refitting of it.

As for your logic, listen closely since I don't want to have to repeat myself. You place limits on speed and give speed players a logical advantage,right? Think of these few scenarios before you make another speech about how you crackdown on gm or following the rules you clearly refuse to defend.(aka speed and character explanation op)

Player 1: mach 17
Player 2:mach 16
Player 2 counters as a tank while launching an attack moving mach 3.
Player 1 simply moves to the left because he can move at mach 17.
Player 1 unleashes an attack moving at mach 5.
Player 2 jumps to the left because he is at sea level and he can move at mach 16.

This is the flaw in your system.

Now let's see what player 1 does when he sees this. He will
A. Call gm
B.make his attacks faster.

Player 1 now unleashes an attack moving at mach 17. Player 2 was charging in coming within less than 1 mile to slash him.
Player 2 has no time to react since it logically takes 1 second to unleash a cero or 1.5 for a hado. Thus player 2 is hit since his maximum speed is 16.3 with his imaginary enhancers.

See where I am getting at?

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

WS is one of the best RPs I've ever played, although it's range system is inconsistency, because one could run more than one long range in one second.

Here you go again. Like I said, 'FTD'. If you had looked done so two or three posts ago, you would have realized that the maximum speed differences isn't that large enough to give a Speed Type the ability to dodge all attacks or speedblitz the other types. Now, how about countering the rest of my post, instead of just 3% of it?