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Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 11:32 AM
Konohamaru gets ten seconds of prep, distance is three meters in some random forest with a lot of trees. Speed equalized.

Who wins?

TheBlackChidori
09-29-2010, 11:51 AM
Zabuza uses mist, dodges all Konohamaru's rasengan. Sword keeps equal speed from mattering. Last of the Sarutobi done.

Zabuza just has too many jutsu for Kono to stand a chance.

Unless Zabuza's a perv, then Harem no Jutsu for the win.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Bunshin Feint can be cleverly pulled off and Zabuza has no counter for it. From the start of the battle Zabuza attacks and fights Konohamaru and as soon as he lands a hit the clone disperses into a puff of smoke and its too late before Zabuza realized it was a clone, and a rasengan to the back.

Bunshin Feints fool Kage level ninja, Zabuza stands no chance. http://forums.narutoempires.net/images/smilies/LOS.png

Shikamaru Nara
09-29-2010, 12:57 PM
Hidden Mist is always equipped. GG.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 12:58 PM
That helps Zabuza knows Konohamaru is about to kill him with a bunshin feint how?

Shikamaru Nara
09-29-2010, 12:59 PM
He's dead by the time it happens?

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 01:03 PM
If you mean his clone, then yes. Hence the term feint, Zabuza thinks its the real Konohamaru but by the time he kills it and realizes he's been kafuddled(lol DQ) then he's going to be raped by none other than the spiraling chakra sphere of death.

Yellow Flash
09-29-2010, 01:03 PM
Bunshin Feint can be cleverly pulled off and Zabuza has no counter for it. From the start of the battle Zabuza attacks and fights Konohamaru and as soon as he lands a hit the clone disperses into a puff of smoke and its too late before Zabuza realized it was a clone, and a rasengan to the back.

Bunshin Feints fool Kage level ninja, Zabuza stands no chance. http://forums.narutoempires.net/images/smilies/LOS.png
What do you mean he has no counter? He can use water feint, despite it being weaker then a bushin feint. Since when has Konohamaru shown speed feats that prove he could pull any of this off? Also, what are Kono's durability feats? Until he presents any we can assume that he is basically a child, which in retrospect he is. Bushin feints have fool Kage level ninja because most of the time it's been Naruto you produces these feints. You most certainly can't compare a feint produce by Naruto to Kono's. When Kono gets close he gets his head chopped off.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Where's Zabuza's prep, oh wait, he doesn't have any. Feints are feints, either way. Kono makes a clone, then hides in the bushes and uses rasengan. While Zabuza attempts to fight the clone, he'll say hi to a rasengan from behind before he realizes it. Comparing two feints won't make a difference, they're the same thing. My seven year old sister doing a fake-out is the same as Einstein doing one, it won't change anything.

Like I said Zabuza has no prep so how he can somehow use Mizu Bunshin before realizing he's about to get Rasengan'd, and with Kono staring right at him in mid-battle unlike Konohamaru who I specifically gave prep time too, then lol.

Yellow Flash
09-29-2010, 01:14 PM
Where's Zabuza's prep, oh wait, he doesn't have any. Feints are feints, either way. Kono makes a clone, then hides in the bushes and uses rasengan. While Zabuza attempts to fight the clone, he'll say hi to a rasengan from behind before he realizes it. Comparing two feints won't make a difference, they're the same thing. My seven year old sister doing a fake-out is the same as Einstein doing one, it won't change anything.

Like I said Zabuza has no prep so how he can somehow use Mizu Bunshin before realizing he's about to get Rasengan'd, and with Kono staring right at him in mid-battle unlike Konohamaru who I specifically gave prep time too, then lol.
And your saying that a Konohamaru feint is going to give Zabuza trouble? Nice try, but no. He takes these out with ease. And Zabuza is just going to stand there and let Konohamaru hit him with the rasengan, when it gives off this screeching noise. Knowing Konohamaru, he'll take after Naruto and scream while running at him, which will be a dead give away. In Character supports this idea. When Konohamaru goes to run at him with his weak rasengan, Zabuza chops his head of with his 15 foot sword. (Over exaggeration)

gama-sennin
09-29-2010, 01:21 PM
Kono hasnt got any feats other than a couple of clones and a weak rasengan. He hasn't shown more than two clones at once. The clones have not shown any durability. Kono himself has not shown any durability at all.

Zabuza wins by chopping Kono in multiple pieces....

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 01:34 PM
And your saying that a Konohamaru feint is going to give Zabuza trouble? Nice try, but no. He takes these out with ease. And Zabuza is just going to stand there and let Konohamaru hit him with the rasengan, when it gives off this screeching noise. Knowing Konohamaru, he'll take after Naruto and scream while running at him, which will be a dead give away. In Character supports this idea. When Konohamaru goes to run at him with his weak rasengan, Zabuza chops his head of with his 15 foot sword. (Over exaggeration)
Hence the "feint" part, when he realizes the screeching and yelling Konohamaru is a clone and then WHAM, Good fight. I don't see why it wouldn't give him trouble, people downplay his Rasengan by a lot. He perfected it a lot faster than Naruto and a rasengan is a rasengan. Pain bodies naturally would be fit to have high durability hence being Pain bodies, and they are corpses and Rasengans are meant for not the outside damage but internal organs as well, and ripping and twisting and massive and rapid speeds on the insides.
Kono hasnt got any feats other than a couple of clones and a weak rasengan. He hasn't shown more than two clones at once. The clones have not shown any durability. Kono himself has not shown any durability at all.

Zabuza wins by chopping Kono in multiple pieces....
Weak? Yeah..

Clones in general hardly show durability and while Zabuza realizes he just killed a clone he gets a rasengan up the ass.

gama-sennin
09-29-2010, 02:01 PM
Hence the "feint" part, when he realizes the screeching and yelling Konohamaru is a clone and then WHAM, Good fight. I don't see why it wouldn't give him trouble, people downplay his Rasengan by a lot. He perfected it a lot faster than Naruto and a rasengan is a rasengan. Pain bodies naturally would be fit to have high durability hence being Pain bodies, and they are corpses and Rasengans are meant for not the outside damage but internal organs as well, and ripping and twisting and massive and rapid speeds on the insides.

Weak? Yeah..


Kono simply followed "Naruto's guide to rasengan for dummies". Nothing special/extraordinary there.

Kono's rasengan is really small, smaller than even the one that was used against Kabuto. We have already seen that in case of rasengan size does count for something.


Clones in general hardly show durability and while Zabuza realizes he just killed a clone he gets a rasengan up the ass.

Equal speed does not automatically scale up Kono's reactions. He is nowhere near Zabuza'a level to land a hit on him.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 02:30 PM
Nothing special? NOTHING SPECIAL? The technique that took MINATO NAMIKAZE THE FOURTH HOKAGE three years to master is nothing special? WHAT THE FU- BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! /ubermegagigafailfacepalm

That "small rasengan" is the rasengan that made Kabuto's badass regen have its own troubles.

Size of rasengan don't matter in most instances. Comparing Sage Tech to Regular Tech and comparing Minato's to regular, Odama to Base, Odama to Minato's, etc. It doesn't make a difference.

Because Zabuza can somehow magically react to something he doesn't know is there? Because even if you're ten times faster if you don't know you're about to get hit - and when you do you get completely raped - and then it makes contact with you, I don't see how you could possibly react. Strange how Zabuza can easily decode the bunshin feint while people with much higher intelligence feats cannot.

TheBlackChidori
09-29-2010, 02:49 PM
Assuming that Naruto and Konohamaru's chakra is anywhere near on the same level, and that Konohamaru can make a Rasengan and strong as Gaara level Naruto?

Sounds kind of crazy doesn't it, Phoenix?


All weapons aside, experience and intelligence alone gives Zabuza the victory. He was able to outsmart Kakashi, do you think Konohamaru has a counter for that?

Bacon
09-29-2010, 02:57 PM
Hence the "feint" part, when he realizes the screeching and yelling Konohamaru is a clone and then WHAM, Good fight. I don't see why it wouldn't give him trouble, people downplay his Rasengan by a lot. He perfected it a lot faster than Naruto and a rasengan is a rasengan. Pain bodies naturally would be fit to have high durability hence being Pain bodies, and they are corpses and Rasengans are meant for not the outside damage but internal organs as well, and ripping and twisting and massive and rapid speeds on the insides.

Weak? Yeah..

Clones in general hardly show durability and while Zabuza realizes he just killed a clone he gets a rasengan up the ass.
You keep trying to drive the idea that Konohomaru will pulled a stunt like naruto,but Zabuza was able to trick Kakashi. Simply basing the battle on who wins for being smarter, it would be tipping the scales in Zabuza's favor since he has years of combat experience.

THE X UCHIHA
09-29-2010, 03:12 PM
Of corse Zabuza wins ...

My scenario :

Zabuza uses Water Prison Technique while Kono is attacking him with Rasen.
Kono’s Rasen , somehow would blow that Water Prison & strongly beat Zabuza.
Ooops !! That wasn’t Zabuza .. it was a water clone .
then .. The real Zabuza would attack Kono with Silent killing Jutsu from the behind
Or he can use on Kono The water Dragon bullet technique in worst situations .

even though Zabuza had no Prep.
he could use The water prison immediatly so he can prevent himself from being attacked by Rasen. for a few seconds at least.

I know that you have a point on that Phoenix .. but no way Konohamaru can beat That Demon .

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 03:17 PM
Assuming that Naruto and Konohamaru's chakra is anywhere near on the same level, and that Konohamaru can make a Rasengan and strong as Gaara level Naruto?

Sounds kind of crazy doesn't it, Phoenix?


All weapons aside, experience and intelligence alone gives Zabuza the victory. He was able to outsmart Kakashi, do you think Konohamaru has a counter for that?
I didn't say that, though. I said that his rasengan surely wasn't weak. I know Zabuza is smarter than Konohamaru no doubt but point being if Zabuza has no idea what's going on he's going to get killed.

Alright look at it this way. You're about to fight this guy, and you're bloodlusted, so is he. You know he's a kid and he's got practically no feats and you can easily kick his ass. Well wait, not even that, since you know the default rules, no knowledge.

Anyway..

From the beginning you charge and slash at him, hah, owned! But what's this? POOF! It was a clone! Suddenly you hear a noise, omg behind you! "Rasengan!" ;););) WAS THAT!?

And if he manages to react, suddenly "Omg I fooled you loloolol" and a rasengan up the ass from a different direction! But how... How could he lose to this kid? Well, simply the fact he had prep time, and was actually hiding near a tree along with another clone the whole time, while what was thought to be Konohamaru was just a clone. Hmm.
You keep trying to drive the idea that Konohomaru will pulled a stunt like naruto,but Zabuza was able to trick Kakashi. Simply basing the battle on who wins for being smarter, it would be tipping the scales in Zabuza's favor since he has years of combat experience.
Okay and Kakuzu is smarter than Zabuza. It doesn't take much to be able to do a fake out, its not an impressive feat but it's easily able to fool people, no matter how much better they are than you.

You seem to hate me with a passion, eh?

Pain_man_who_became_god
09-29-2010, 03:22 PM
zabuza would school konohamuru easy. years of exp. plus jonin level jutsu and he is singlehandedly the most classic version of an actual ninja on naruto. hes all about stealth and merciless kill. no way kono could beat any of the seven swordsman of the mist.

Bacon
09-29-2010, 03:41 PM
I didn't say that, though. I said that his rasengan surely wasn't weak. I know Zabuza is smarter than Konohamaru no doubt but point being if Zabuza has no idea what's going on he's going to get killed.

Alright look at it this way. You're about to fight this guy, and you're bloodlusted, so is he. You know he's a kid and he's got practically no feats and you can easily kick his ass. Well wait, not even that, since you know the default rules, no knowledge.

Anyway..

From the beginning you charge and slash at him, hah, owned! But what's this? POOF! It was a clone! Suddenly you hear a noise, omg behind you! "Rasengan!" ;););) WAS THAT!?

And if he manages to react, suddenly "Omg I fooled you loloolol" and a rasengan up the ass from a different direction! But how... How could he lose to this kid? Well, simply the fact he had prep time, and was actually hiding near a tree along with another clone the whole time, while what was thought to be Konohamaru was just a clone. Hmm.

Okay and Kakuzu is smarter than Zabuza. It doesn't take much to be able to do a fake out, its not an impressive feat but it's easily able to fool people, no matter how much better they are than you.

You seem to hate me with a passion, eh?

Naw, hating you would mean that I wanted to kill you. I am nowhere near that point becaue we disagree over a hypothetical anime battle.:lol:

I am simply stating that Zabuza could trick Konohomaru too. Flash already pointed out that Zabuza has water clones to pull the exact same trick off,combine this with Zabuza's experience and mist. Konohomaru is toasty waffles.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 03:49 PM
The only reason Konohamaru can do the trick is with prep. Zabuza doesn't get to start out behind a tree, with his clone taking his place. That's the thing, Zabuza would think its the real him, especially with no knowledge and having no clue what he's capable of.

He can't pull the same thing, the only reason Konohamaru can is because I gave him the loved gift of preparation time.

Bacon
09-29-2010, 03:52 PM
Here's the thing Phoenix, zabuza has only needed one hand sign to produce his dreaded mist; thus he can obscure Konohomaru who shows no speed feats. Try to spin it any way and the answer is simple, zabuza has the advantage of reach and expereince to tip the scales in his corner.

Phoenix Wright
09-29-2010, 03:56 PM
He's bloodlusted, why go super stealthy, especially when the distance is three meters and that's about the visible level anyway, which isn't very far at that.

We all know what a bloodlusted Zabuza is like.

Here's the thing, Bacon. Zabuza is bloodlusted and its not exactly out of bloodlusted character to not perform a feint and rasengan up the ass than it is for Zabuza to do something as in character as the mist.

gama-sennin
09-30-2010, 03:21 AM
Nothing special? NOTHING SPECIAL? The technique that took MINATO NAMIKAZE THE FOURTH HOKAGE three years to master is nothing special? WHAT THE FU- BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! /ubermegagigafailfacepalm



Lol.....You didnt understand a thing there. I didn't use "nothing special" while talking about rasengan. I was talking about Kono managing to use it faster than anyone else.

Minato DEVELOPED the technique ON HIS OWN. It obviously took more time because he never had anyone to give him "tips". Kono simply copied Naruto's technique and did nothing special.


That "small rasengan" is the rasengan that made Kabuto's badass regen have its own troubles.
That rasengan was bigger than the one used by Konohamaru.


Size of rasengan don't matter in most instances. Comparing Sage Tech to Regular Tech and comparing Minato's to regular, Odama to Base, Odama to Minato's, etc. It doesn't make a difference.
You are kidding, right?


Because Zabuza can somehow magically react to something he doesn't know is there? Because even if you're ten times faster if you don't know you're about to get hit - and when you do you get completely raped - and then it makes contact with you, I don't see how you could possibly react. Strange how Zabuza can easily decode the bunshin feint while people with much higher intelligence feats cannot.The distance is 3 meters. So, assuming that Kono will have to travel that far with rasengan in his hand, Zabuza will have enough time to react. I mean the "feint" only works if the victim has no idea about it..../genius

At three meters(unless Zabuza is blind) the only option is to hide behind some nearby tree and try to connect with the rasengan.

Phoenix Wright
09-30-2010, 03:45 AM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/Jesus_facepalm.jpg

I'm not even gonna continue anymore.

Last paragraph you just backed up what I was saying, he would have no clue it was happening. The Konohamaru that Zabuza thinks is the real one is just a clone. Before he realizes it he gets rasengand up the ass. /thread

gama-sennin
09-30-2010, 05:13 AM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/Jesus_facepalm.jpg

I'm not even gonna continue anymore.


You always make me laugh....I'd love to use that image somewhere...xD

But I'd like to post for one last time, if you dont mind..


Last paragraph you just backed up what I was saying, he would have no clue it was happening. The Konohamaru that Zabuza thinks is the real one is just a clone. Before he realizes it he gets rasengand up the ass. /threadIn the last paragraph, I explained the only possible "feint" in this scenario. I thought, with that much explanation, you will realize that there is no way for Kono to pull that off.

Phoenix Wright
09-30-2010, 05:20 AM
How so? He has prep, and Zabuza has no idea he's there. You're avoiding it completely, this is exactly what happened:

Me: It's impossible, he can't do it when he knows its Konohamaru and when he gets attacked and kills him, he'll realize he's the clone and won't be able to react.

You: No because he will know.

Me: How would he possibly know that..

You: Konohamaru can't do a feint

Me: /facepalm

gama-sennin
09-30-2010, 05:54 AM
How so? He has prep, and Zabuza has no idea he's there. You're avoiding it completely, this is exactly what happened:



What makes you think that I am avoiding the prep thingy? Without prep its a horrible stomp in Zabuza's favor.

Zabuza kills a clone.

Kono comes out with a tiny rasengan and tries to attack Zabuza.

Kono has not shown any stealth techniques. So, obviously, Zabuza will notice and dodge his attack.


Me: It's impossible, he can't do it when he knows its Konohamaru and when he gets attacked and kills him, he'll realize he's the clone and won't be able to react.

You: No because he will know.

Me: How would he possibly know that..

You: Konohamaru can't do a feint

Me: /facepalm*sigh*

Zabuz kept up with part one Kakashi(at least for a while). Which means he has good enough reaction speed/feats. His other feats include durability, speed and range of techniques.

On the other hand, Kono used rasengan on the slowest and weakest(not counting revival abilities) path of pain. Kono has not shown any durability, reaction speed, movement speed or techniques other than (cute/little) rasengan. .

I repeat Kono's rasengan will not kill Zabuza or any other ninja for that matter. Its too weak to manage that.

Phoenix Wright
09-30-2010, 06:22 AM
What makes you think that I am avoiding the prep thingy? With prep its a horrible stomp in Kono's favor.

Zabuza kills Konohamaru but then realizes it was a clone.

Kono uses Rasengan before Zabuza can realize what he just killed was a clone.

Zabuza has no knowledge and by the time he realizes its a clone, Zabuza gets rasengand up the ass. My, my, Phoenix you've made my see the truth.

*sigh*

Zabuz kept up with part one Kakashi(at least for a while). That means Durability and Speed feats but still nowhere near enough to stand a chance against Konohamaru.

All Pain's are clearly fast and powerful and Konohamaru fooled him with no prep and landed a hit on him. Phoenix, as you said before, they are corpses and now I'm seeing the light, you've made me understand. I agree 100%.

I repeat Kono's rasengan will kill Zabuza or any other ninja for that matter. Its too strong to manage Zabuza surviving.

Glad we agree.

gama-sennin
09-30-2010, 06:47 AM
Glad we agree.

Well, you tried your best.....Sadly, it wasn't enough...Better luck next time...http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

/bows

/leaves

Phoenix Wright
09-30-2010, 06:50 AM
I know, its quite unfortunate you were unable to counter so you whined instead of providing proof, continuously wanked and then resorted to childish retorts.
Who knew Zabuza was so overrated? http://forums.narutoempires.net/images/smilies/zaru.gif

gama-sennin
09-30-2010, 07:04 AM
I know, its quite unfortunate you were unable to counter so you whined instead of providing proof


Define proof. I was under impression that I was debating based on feats and proofs..But looks like your definitions are different...


, continuously wanked and then resorted to childish retorts.

Of course...That is exactly what you did right from the beginning. But there was no need to say it out loud.


Who knew Zabuza was so overrated? http://forums.narutoempires.net/images/smilies/zaru.gifWho knew Konohamaru was so overrated?


Phoenix, please lock this.

Phoenix Wright
09-30-2010, 05:26 PM
Because you lacked feats, and proof (because there isn't any) that suggests somehow Zabuza stands a chance, I will lock this because of your request.

I'm glad you agree that Konohamaru stomps. Damn even we both thought it should be locked in Kono's favor. Damn those Zabuza wankers.

Kono rapes, glad we all agree. =)