Why dont you take Author words?

[FlyingThunderGod]

why in the battle ground, do "we" not take Author words? His words should be better than any feat, well because he made the story, he knows the way its going to turn out, and most importantly he gives the "feats". So why dont we take his word. And no im not talking about Databooks, since supposedly he does not make them.

And even worse "we" take people calculations over what he says.

Just WHY!!!

[NBT]

Lying.
Not having a clue what he or she is talking about
mistake
etc.

[cnorwood]

"amaterasu i hotter than the sun", but it fails to vaporize a tree
/thread

[RealNinja]

Its easy people like to rationalize manga which you cant.

[Narutorious]

Don't bother, it's useless to talk to them about it, the problem is they are statements that had went against the "feat", but what most of these guys don't know is what statements to take literal & what statements are exaggerated, such as Amaterasu being hotter than the sun, that's obviously exaggerated, but the point was made, it' very hot.

[cnorwood]

Don't bother, it's useless to talk to them about it, the problem is they are statements that had went against the "feat", but what most of these guys don't know is what statements to take literal & what statements are exaggerated, such as Amaterasu being hotter than the sun, that's obviously exaggerated, but the point was made, it' very hot.
regular real fire does more damage than the amaterasu, and for a long time people would say an uchiha w/ammy would win because its so hot

[lolohwd]

regular real fire does more damage than the amaterasu, and for a long time people would say an uchiha w/ammy would win because its so hot


but but but in the ninja world they have no idea how hot the sun is so they get an excuse of not being astronauts

[cnorwood]

but but but in the ninja world they have no idea how hot the sun is so they get an excuse of not being astronauts
maybe they mean amaterasu is hotter than the temperature, so max its 300 degres Fahrenheit

[Narutorious]

regular real fire does more damage than the amaterasu, and for a long time people would say an uchiha w/ammy would win because its so hot

Comparing real life & a manga is very tricky, if anything compare to the sun is even close to a human or an object, it is goodbye to that human or object, we can easily say that Amaterasu is hotter than the average fire or fire jutsu in the Naruto universe, which is supposed to be the point of the description of it.

[cnorwood]

well lets just put it like this, unless the artist says a certian move is unstoppable (no limits fallacy), most of the time you can take the authors worlds, but since i see kishimoto in the tags, kishimoto likes to go against his words in his own manga

[lolohwd]

so tsukiyomi is unbreakable by someone not of the blood of the user

[cnorwood]

so tsukiyomi is unbreakable by someone not of the blood of the user
idk but i bet you naruto will be able to do it when he fights sasuke

[lolohwd]

that would be cause of plot and cause itachi gave him the power/blood to do so


lol itachi gave him some blood!

[SimpleGenin]

why in the battle ground, do "we" not take Author words? His words should be better than any feat, well because he made the story, he knows the way its going to turn out, and most importantly he gives the "feats". So why dont we take his word. And no im not talking about Databooks, since supposedly he does not make them.

And even worse "we" take people calculations over what he says.

Just WHY!!!
i like to take in mind feats and hype when it comes to the battleground. your right about some stuff about what the author says but simply going by a hype is also not accurate. you also have to take in mind the feats aswell as other information we know about the character..

for example, in a Kisame Vs Itachi fight, full knowledge

if i just use feats alone, its kinda hard for me to imagine any feats of itachi being a match against kisame's absorbing jutsu

but if we go by hype, kisame admitted to be below Itachi's level.

in the end its up to the people to judge what they wanna believe.

[RealNinja]

that would be cause of plot and cause itachi gave him the power/blood to do so


lol itachi gave him some blood!

Not necessarily Naruto uses shadow clones and Tsukiyomi is genjutsu. It has to attack the original.

[Nyruss]

Haku. Lightspeed. That is all.

[321zigzag3]

It depends on the word that is all.

Also calculations are made to satisfy those who aren't entirely sure of the author's intent.

Author's intent many times is vague and vulnerable to subjectivity.

Haku. Lightspeed. That is all.

why in the battle ground, do "we" not take Author words? His words should be better than any feat, well because he made the story, he knows the way its going to turn out, and most importantly he gives the "feats". So why dont we take his word. And no im not talking about Databooks, since supposedly he does not make them.

[RealNinja]

Yep thats because its a manga not real life. He is not going to put that much thought into it. His real job is to keep the story moving.

[321zigzag3]

And the manga writers didn't really think we would be so intent in debating about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS with impunity.

Not to mention sometimes what the manga writer shows comes out differently from the intent. http://i39.tinypic.com/29gn6yq.gif

[Narutorious]

Haku. Lightspeed. That is all.

Exaggerated statement, the point is he's fast.

[SimpleGenin]

Haku. Lightspeed. That is all.
yup yup thats true.. the point is haku's fast..
MOST of high school graduat dont even know what Light speed means.. im thinking how would naruto character say statement like that.. point is, characters fast

[Invisible Fog]

What if Masashi put in his book, and made Naruto say, "oh those kids udon and moegi wow they can beat me up easily" would you take that for a feat? I think not.

[Akatsuki X]

yup yup thats true.. the point is haku's fast..
MOST of high school graduat dont even know what Light speed means.. im thinking how would naruto character say statement like that.. point is, characters fast

Haku isn't even that fast thou...

[FlyingThunderGod]

Haku isn't even that fast thou...

actually in his mirrors he is pretty fast.

[Nābris]

actually in his mirrors he is pretty fast.
Nevertheless, he was definitely not moving at relativistic speeds. If he were, mere Genin such as Sasuke and Naruto would have never been able to even react to his movements. :lol:

Kishimoto has made a ton of mistakes in his works, that's why we don't always take his exact words for granted.

[The 1st Hokage]

I'm probably gonna troll this thread until I find a good reason to lock it, sooooooo...

Amaterasu doesn't = Sun's Heat
Haku doesn't = LS
Minato isn't realy that fast.
Kishi fails.

thx for you time. :D

[Miles Edgeworth]

It depends on how credible the statement is.

IIRC, Toriyama said Mystic Gohan is the strongest unfused DB character, which does make sense from feats and common sense.

However, if it's something bizarre like Cell can bust the solar system, Haku is light speed, etc. then it's a different story.

[SimpleGenin]

Haku isn't even that fast thou...
umm yes he is.. in the mirror technique, he is soo fast that it makes an after image.. all you got to do is watch the anime.. kishimoto emphasized on haku's speed.

i agree that kishimoto made mistakes.. he shouldnt have had such fast character like haku be in the very beginning of the series. because of his speed feats, he actually would most likely speedblitz even tsunade thus winning against her, but is that realistic in the naruto world? i think not.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Even in mirrors Haku was not such a big deal. Sasuke when just activating his Sharingan was able to react to Haku in mirrors. Also, anime is non canon and is an inaccurate representation of a character's abilities as compared to the manga.

Blitz Tsunade? Heavily doubtful. Despite Tsunade's lack of feats, she was fighting off Kabuto and Orochimaru, and chances are it's more likely Haku would get smacked in the face rather than using his mirrors considering Wave Arc Sasuke was faster than Base Haku.

Or Katsuyu squish. Either way works.

Haku's speed was only impressive because of how early in the series that was.

[SimpleGenin]

Even in mirrors Haku was not such a big deal. Sasuke when just activating his Sharingan was able to react to Haku in mirrors. Also, anime is non canon and is an inaccurate representation of a character's abilities as compared to the manga.

Blitz Tsunade? Heavily doubtful. Despite Tsunade's lack of feats, she was fighting off Kabuto and Orochimaru, and chances are it's more likely Haku would get smacked in the face rather than using his mirrors considering Wave Arc Sasuke was faster than Base Haku.

Or Katsuyu squish. Either way works.

Haku's speed was only impressive because of how early in the series that was.

Thats what i mean by mistakes at kishi's end. Haku is definantly fast, saying that Tsunade could keep up with him Haku while the mirror is out, is kinda unrealistic based on feats shown by Tsunade so far, your right about Katsuyu giving Tsunade the win, but in a hand to hand fight, Haku just simply blitz. I don't say I agree with that, I'm just saying based on feats wise. I consider the anime a pretty good representation, but not the fillers.

Its kinda like dbz.

In frieza saga, the fact is that frieza is seen to be this godly creature in the universe who destroys planet with just a finger, but in the andriod saga, I didnt get the feeling that any of the andriods were capable of destroying a planet, the andriods feats were actually much less then frieza in everything, speed wise, strength wise. BUT the fact was that the andriod was several more times powerful then frieza.. Its the same concept.

[Nyruss]

Despite Tsunade's lack of feats, she was fighting off Kabuto and Orochimaru


If by "fighting off" you mean "Barely kept up with a severely injured Orochimaru who was not only incapable of using most of his jutsus but was also holding back" and "Got one lucky shot in against Kabuto and that only because he was holding back".

[Shikamaru Nara]

Kishi makes databooks, right? Kishi says Haku is lightspeed. Remind me why you're asking this question.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Thats what i mean by mistakes at kishi's end. Haku is definantly fast, saying that Tsunade could keep up with him Haku while the mirror is out, is kinda unrealistic based on feats shown by Tsunade so far, your right about Katsuyu giving Tsunade the win, but in a hand to hand fight, Haku just simply blitz. I don't say I agree with that, I'm just saying based on feats wise. I consider the anime a pretty good representation, but not the fillers.

Its kinda like dbz.

In frieza saga, the fact is that frieza is seen to be this godly creature in the universe who destroys planet with just a finger, but in the andriod saga, I didnt get the feeling that any of the andriods were capable of destroying a planet, the andriods feats were actually much less then frieza in everything, speed wise, strength wise. BUT the fact was that the andriod was several more times powerful then frieza.. Its the same concept.

Considering the fact that Wave Arc Sasuke, who is far less competent than Kabuto or Orochimaru, was keeping up despite only getting Sharingan a matter of seconds before, I'd say it isn't unreasonable to assume Tsunade can keep up.

Anime is non canon as a whole, not just the fillers.

A lot of people didn't show planet busting after because, for one, there was no need, and second, it was blatant common sense they were stronger. The fact that Future Trunks fodderized Frieza but failed to stand up to 17 or 18 proves for a fact that they are stronger than Frieza. Even if they never demonstrate planet busting, it's clear that they are still stronger than Frieza.

If by "fighting off" you mean "Barely kept up with a severely injured Orochimaru who was not only incapable of using most of his jutsus but was also holding back" and "Got one lucky shot in against Kabuto and that only because he was holding back".

Orochimaru was severely injured but that doesn't change the fact she still kept up with him. Orochimaru's arms were sealed but he didn't show a massive decrease in speed. It's clear he was not at full potential but the fact that Tsunade didn't get roflblitzed by him in seconds prove she has some competency.

If Kabuto was so much stronger then why did he have to utilize Tsunade's fear of blood to beat her? Adding on the fact that Tsunade hadn't fought in a long period of time shows that Tsunade was not utter and complete fodder as she could still hold her own.

Haven't read the fight in a while but I don't recall Kabuto ever significantly holding back in that fight.

[Nyruss]

EDIT: Ah yes, I forgot that I wasn't going to bother with Tsunade wank anymore. I'll be off now, carry on with the wanking of Tsunade.

[SimpleGenin]

Considering the fact that Wave Arc Sasuke, who is far less competent than Kabuto or Orochimaru, was keeping up despite only getting Sharingan a matter of seconds before, I'd say it isn't unreasonable to assume Tsunade can keep up.

Anime is non canon as a whole, not just the fillers.

A lot of people didn't show planet busting after because, for one, there was no need, and second, it was blatant common sense they were stronger. The fact that Future Trunks fodderized Frieza but failed to stand up to 17 or 18 proves for a fact that they are stronger than Frieza. Even if they never demonstrate planet busting, it's clear that they are still stronger than Frieza.



Orochimaru was severely injured but that doesn't change the fact she still kept up with him. Orochimaru's arms were sealed but he didn't show a massive decrease in speed. It's clear he was not at full potential but the fact that Tsunade didn't get roflblitzed by him in seconds prove she has some competency.

If Kabuto was so much stronger then why did he have to utilize Tsunade's fear of blood to beat her? Adding on the fact that Tsunade hadn't fought in a long period of time shows that Tsunade was not utter and complete fodder as she could still hold her own.

Haven't read the fight in a while but I don't recall Kabuto ever significantly holding back in that fight.
true that they didnt need to show feats to prove, its kinda the same thing with tsunade vs haku fight.. thus using both feats and hype to decide a battle.. i like that.

the fact that sasuke kept up wit haku doesnt mean anything, fact is that sharingan reads the opponent, and fact is that tsunade doesnt have sharingan

Tsunade's fight with Orochimaru and Kabuto was a lil pathetic. Orochimaru was probibly fighting with less then half his energy in that fight yet tsunade couldnt kill him. Kabuto WAS holding back by alot. the only reason why he needed to use the fear of blood thing because he underestimated her a bit too much.. ( he closed his eyes and gave tsunade a chance to scramble his nervess )..

[Miles Edgeworth]

Because he let her.



Or that he didn't kill her because Konoha needed a Kage. You know, plot.



He didn't have to, he did it because he's a jerk.



But only if her opponents aren't actually trying.

Why in the world would he let her keep up with him? He just got betrayed by him after hoping to get his arms back in full condition, if I were him I'd be bloodlusted and ready to kill her.

Honestly I don't see how Deus Ex Machina was really such a huge factor, it wasn't a Sasuke moment, Tsunade didn't get a massive plot boost or amazing survival.

Didn't have to? I'd say that if he hadn't done it he would've been grilled, especially if Tsunade felt like using Katsuyu.

So what exactly points to the idea they weren't trying? Kabuto and Orochimaru would have to be complete retards to not put any effort and would be massively out of character to toy with her and go easy despite being betrayed and wanting to smack the crap out of her for trolling them.

true that they didnt need to show feats to prove, its kinda the same thing with tsunade vs haku fight.. thus using both feats and hype to decide a battle.. i like that.

the fact that sasuke kept up wit haku doesnt mean anything, fact is that sharingan reads the opponent, and fact is that tsunade doesnt have sharingan

Tsunade's fight with Orochimaru and Kabuto was a lil pathetic. Orochimaru was probibly fighting with less then half his energy in that fight yet tsunade couldnt kill him. Kabuto WAS holding back by alot. the only reason why he needed to use the fear of blood thing because he underestimated her a bit too much.. ( he closed his eyes and gave tsunade a chance to scramble his nervess )..

There's a difference between hype and common sense.

And Sasuke was not only fodder back then and got Sharingan as a random plot boost. Suddenly you believe he has top tier reactions? Must be why Obito was so competent.

That's because Orochimaru had Kabuto on his side, and while I hate to argue this, plot no jutsu. Without Orochimaru around, multiple elements of Shippuden would have been crapped on. Sasuke leaving the village, a lot of Akatsuki stuff, Kabuto's new abilities, the list goes on. Also, Tsunade could easily have attacked Kabuto after she scrambled his nerves, but she didn't so we could get an idea of what was going on and so Kishi could give Kabuto some hype.

[SimpleGenin]

oro still kinda hoped that tsunade would heal his arms even when they were fighting..
oro did say,"then i'll use force" so the fact that Oro and Kabuto wasnt trying to kill tsunade is definantly true..

Oro even said " you were the only one i didnt want dead" something like that

[Miles Edgeworth]

He hoped that because he was exceedingly desperate to be restored to his normal condition. Despite the obvious fact Tsunade wasn't going for it by that point, it was very clear.

Orochimaru saying that could easily have been an emotional appeal to try and make Tsunade change her mind. Granted, it didn't work, but people desperate to recover a dreadful injury can say some out of character things I suppose.

The fact remains that if Kabuto and Armless Oro were significantly superior to Tsunade, they could have casually incapacitated her with no effort in the least, but that didn't happen. There would be no need to kill her, just make her unable to fight and take her back. Simple solution.

[SimpleGenin]

and if jiraiya and the others didnt come, that would have happened.. Tsunade was kina pathetic in that fight.. kabuto would have used tsunade's fear and its game over.

[RealNinja]

Kishi changes Naruto all the time. In the beginning Gaara beast was suppose to be a spirit. He changed it into a Bijuu in Shippuden. When he makes a change he cannot go back and do over a scene it stays that way it was no matter what. That dbz trunks reference was perfect.
There ar multiple things unaccounted for in manga. One alot of times characters that seem slow are alot faster than what they seem. If they are moving too fast the reader cannot keep up with the battle scenes. So characters are slowed down.

[fearkisame]

plus people can be very stubborn

[Miles Edgeworth]

EDIT: Ah yes, I forgot that I wasn't going to bother with Tsunade wank anymore. I'll be off now, carry on with the wanking of Tsunade.

So basically because you can't come up with a decent argument to refute my points you're going to accuse me of Tsunade wank and ignore me. I see how it is.

I am quite disappointed Dudemeister, I thought you were better than this.

and if jiraiya and the others didnt come, that would have happened.. Tsunade was kina pathetic in that fight.. kabuto would have used tsunade's fear and its game over.

All because of Tsunade's fear of blood, which as you know is no longer an issue. That was the only thing keeping Kabuto ahead of her, once that was gone she would have trashed him.

[Dio Brando]

Sometimes Kishi exaggerate things a little, also known as Hyperbole.

He says Amaterasu is hotter than the sun, but it could simply be hotter than normal fire.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

[RealNinja]

So basically because you can't come up with a decent argument to refute my points you're going to accuse me of Tsunade wank and ignore me. I see how it is.

I am quite disappointed Dudemeister, I thought you were better than this.



All because of Tsunade's fear of blood, which as you know is no longer an issue. That was the only thing keeping Kabuto ahead of her, once that was gone she would have trashed him.

Yep she basicaly went into shock when he showed her the blood.

[321zigzag3]

Sometimes Kishi exaggerate things a little, also known as Hyperbole.

He says Amaterasu is hotter than the sun, but it could simply be hotter than normal fire.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Do you come from another forum? Just curious if I may ask.

[Dio Brando]

Do you come from another forum? Just curious if I may ask.

I come from MyAnimeList.

[321zigzag3]

I come from MyAnimeList.

Oh I know that forum. My feelings are about it are mixed.

I mean I have seen bad and really good things too. But I lurked there twice so...

[Dio Brando]

Oh I know that forum. My feelings are about it are mixed.

I mean I have seen bad and really good things too. But I lurked there twice so...

Its my internet home. I go there to manage my anime/manga list also to discuss latest episodes/chapters of what I read/watch. Which is a lot.

I also go to AniDB and Bakabt.

[SimpleGenin]

All because of Tsunade's fear of blood, which as you know is no longer an issue. That was the only thing keeping Kabuto ahead of her, once that was gone she would have trashed him.
not just the fear of blood. even tsunade herself admitted kabuto having traits even she couldnt reach at her prime..even with out the blood thing, tsunade is outclassed during that time.. Kabuto was beating tsunade when she wasnt even bleeding, ofcourse Kabuto used a pill but the factt still remains that she got trashed by him..

wow haha to think Tsunade is one of my favorite character.. haha

and if your thinking about katsuyu, Manda has her beat no matter how you put it, manda's stronger faster then both gamabunta and and katsuyu. katsuyu, from what i could tell is only good for support such as healing and relying messeges.. but thats about it, Acid slime? gimmie a break, that wont do much concidering Manda evaded something much faster then that..

[321zigzag3]

Ah so you are like what a moderator?

Thats hefty. Responsibly person you must be for that place, My Anime List forum.

[Miles Edgeworth]

not just the fear of blood. even tsunade herself admitted kabuto having traits even she couldnt reach at her prime..even with out the blood thing, tsunade is outclassed during that time.. Kabuto was beating tsunade when she wasnt even bleeding, ofcourse Kabuto used a pill but the factt still remains that she got trashed by him..

wow haha to think Tsunade is one of my favorite character.. haha

and if your thinking about katsuyu, Manda has her beat no matter how you put it, manda's stronger faster then both gamabunta and and katsuyu. katsuyu, from what i could tell is only good for support such as healing and relying messeges.. but thats about it, Acid slime? gimmie a break, that wont do much concidering Manda evaded something much faster then that..

Her complimenting Kabuto's skills does nothing to prove he is superior to her. Also, in no way was Kabuto trashing her until he utilized her fear of blood. Yeah, he got a hit on her, big deal, she smacked him with her nerve scramble. She could have hit him again while he was down, but she didn't and he adjusted to the scrambling.

I never said Katsuyu>Manda, but from what I remember I don't think Kabuto can summon Manda on his own and clearly Armless Oro couldn't. They both needed each other to summon Manda, without one it wouldn't have happened at all. So one-on-one Tsunade could probably beat them both. Even if it's unfair that she has a summon and they don't, fights aren't always fair and that's how it is.

[Dio Brando]

Ah so you are like what a moderator?

Thats hefty. Responsibly person you must be for that place, My Anime List forum.

No, I'm not a Mod, I never wanted to be one.

[RealNinja]

not just the fear of blood. even tsunade herself admitted kabuto having traits even she couldnt reach at her prime..even with out the blood thing, tsunade is outclassed during that time.. Kabuto was beating tsunade when she wasnt even bleeding, ofcourse Kabuto used a pill but the factt still remains that she got trashed by him..

wow haha to think Tsunade is one of my favorite character.. haha

and if your thinking about katsuyu, Manda has her beat no matter how you put it, manda's stronger faster then both gamabunta and and katsuyu. katsuyu, from what i could tell is only good for support such as healing and relying messeges.. but thats about it, Acid slime? gimmie a break, that wont do much concidering Manda evaded something much faster then that..

Kabuto was a Jonin class shinobi on the level of Kakashi he wasnt exactly weak. Matter of fact if you think about it he was one of the stronger Naruto characters back then. Shippuden just made his feats look weaker.

[SimpleGenin]

Her complimenting Kabuto's skills does nothing to prove he is superior to her. Also, in no way was Kabuto trashing her until he utilized her fear of blood. Yeah, he got a hit on her, big deal, she smacked him with her nerve scramble. She could have hit him again while he was down, but she didn't and he adjusted to the scrambling.

I never said Katsuyu>Manda, but from what I remember I don't think Kabuto can summon Manda on his own and clearly Armless Oro couldn't. They both needed each other to summon Manda, without one it wouldn't have happened at all. So one-on-one Tsunade could probably beat them both. Even if it's unfair that she has a summon and they don't, fights aren't always fair and that's how it is.

it doesnt prove anything but it says alot about tsunade in her prime.. she was getting trashed.. after kabuto had the pills, it was downhill for tsunade, he couldnt even touch kabuto anymore.. until kabuto let down his guard.. he believed that tearing tsunade's muscles was enough.. he got too confident.. he closed his eyes and boom, tsunade got him in the cheapest of ways.

but the fact was, it was a severely injured oro plus kabuto ( with no intent too kill) versus tsunade who had all intention to kill.. that was the match.. and for me anyway you put it, with out jiraiya coming in to help, Tsunade would have lost.. with or without the fear of blood. unless you think Oro with manda and kabuto would lose to Tsunade and Katsuyu..

[Miles Edgeworth]

it doesnt prove anything but it says alot about tsunade in her prime.. she was getting trashed.. after kabuto had the pills, it was downhill for tsunade, he couldnt even touch kabuto anymore.. until kabuto let down his guard.. he believed that tearing tsunade's muscles was enough.. he got too confident.. he closed his eyes and boom, tsunade got him in the cheapest of ways.

but the fact was, it was a severely injured oro plus kabuto ( with no intent too kill) versus tsunade who had all intention to kill.. that was the match.. and for me anyway you put it, with out jiraiya coming in to help, Tsunade would have lost.. with or without the fear of blood. unless you think Oro with manda and kabuto would lose to Tsunade and Katsuyu..

We don't even need to bother with Prime Tsunade, Tsunade from the feats we have is stronger than Kabuto. Again, I would like to ask how she was getting "trashed". Tsunade was doing just fine until Kabuto used the blood tactic, which won't work anymore. Whether or not Kabuto was overconfident is completely irrelevant, it makes no difference, Kabuto got grilled, that's his problem, no matter how you try to say otherwise. Without Tsunade's blood phobia, GG Kabuto.

Manda would not have even been in the picture if Tsunade took out Kabuto. Without Manda, Armless Oro wouldn't beat Tsunade. All he really has is Kusanagi, which she was able to tank for quite a while. It may be powerful and have a lot of range but it won't save him from Katsuyu smash.

Manda is the only reason in any way that Tsunade would fail to solo without blood phobia.

[SimpleGenin]

dude tsunade was getting trashed. after kabuto took the pill, tsunade couldnt even keep up with him.. kabuto then severed tsunade's muscle in the legs, the arms and her breathing muscle.. if kabuto wanted to do more, instead of stopping the onslaught, he would have kept on going perhaps tearing every single muscles on her body.. but no, he didnt wanna kill her thats why he stopped.. im reading it right now... seriously thats how it went down.. just the fact that tsunade couldnt keep up says alot..

[SimpleGenin]

Manda is the only reason in any way that Tsunade would fail to solo without blood phobia.
not true. without katsuyu and manda and without the fear of blood, tsunade would have still lost against both kabuto and orochimaru..

[Miles Edgeworth]

dude tsunade was getting trashed. after kabuto took the pill, tsunade couldnt even keep up with him.. kabuto then severed tsunade's muscle in the legs, the arms and her breathing muscle.. if kabuto wanted to do more, instead of stopping the onslaught, he would have kept on going perhaps tearing every single muscles on her body.. but no, he didnt wanna kill her thats why he stopped.. im reading it right now... seriously thats how it went down.. just the fact that tsunade couldnt keep up says alot..

Oh and Tsunade would stand there and just let Kabuto take a pill if she's bloodlusted right?

Kabuto thought that was sufficient, stopped, and was wrong. Whether or not he decided to keep on going is irrelevant because that's what he did, and what if's mean nothing here. He didn't kill her, and if Tsunade felt like it she would have simply killed him with Katsuyu from the start, but that's no fun and kills the plot.

not true. without katsuyu and manda and without the fear of blood, tsunade would have still lost against both kabuto and orochimaru..

But who said Tsunade didn't have Katsuyu? Restricting Katsuyu solely to make things better for your argument I see.

Also, Tsunade could easily have just punched the ground to knock Kabuto off balance and slug him in the head, GG.

[SimpleGenin]

Oh and Tsunade would stand there and just let Kabuto take a pill if she's bloodlusted right?

Kabuto thought that was sufficient, stopped, and was wrong. Whether or not he decided to keep on going is irrelevant because that's what he did, and what if's mean nothing here. He didn't kill her, and if Tsunade felt like it she would have simply killed him with Katsuyu from the start, but that's no fun and kills the plot.



But who said Tsunade didn't have Katsuyu? Restricting Katsuyu solely to make things better for your argument I see.

Also, Tsunade could easily have just punched the ground to knock Kabuto off balance and slug him in the head, GG.
haha dude the fact is,

Orochimaru didnt want tsunade dead, kabuto is following orders, tsunade was getting her butt kicked even before the fear of blood came to playy.. and tsunade was arguably blood lusted.. she even charged at them saying IM GONNA KILL YOU haha that sounds like blood lust to me..


hello? you restricted manda? its only fair for both boss summon to be restricted..haha your funny. look back at ur post.. ur the one who's restricting manda at the first place..

okie if both could summon, it doesnt change fact that tsunade lacks feats to beat both oro and kabuto

even with her mitonic regenaration, she was barely able to severely damage oro in that small time frame, just think, if kabuto helped out, that wouldnt have happened.

[Yellow Flash]

IIRC, Kabuto utilized Tsunades phobia at the get-go.

Sorry if I'm wrong at points, I'm a little rusty.

[SimpleGenin]

IIRC, Kabuto utilized Tsunades phobia at the get-go.

Sorry if I'm wrong at points, I'm a little rusty.
not from the get go, but after they fought a lil,
Tsunade couldnt even hit kabuto. after kabuto took a pill, tsunade couldnt even keep up. thus giving kabuto a chance to rip tsunade's muscle in the legs and arms and even her breathing muscle. and keep in mind kabuto wasnt bloodlusted, cause he was following orders..

[Yellow Flash]

No, your wrong.

Tsunade used her medical ninjutsu to mess with Kabuto's muscles, causing his to react in difference to what his brain was telling them to do. If Tsunade couldn't keep up, what was the viable reason she landed that blow to him? And if I'm not mistaken, she had landed one or two punches even before this.

[SimpleGenin]

No, your wrong.

Tsunade used her medical ninjutsu to mess with Kabuto's muscles, causing his to react in difference to what his brain was telling them to do. If Tsunade couldn't keep up, what was the viable reason she landed that blow to him? And if I'm not mistaken, she had landed one or two punches even before this.
no YOUR wrong.
Tsunade only hit kabuto only after kabuto let his gaurd down believing that rapturing her intercoustal muscle would be enough to restrain tsunade.. like i said, kabuto wasnt bloodlusted.. thats how she scrambled his nerves.. but prior to that, tsunade was totally out class.. im reading it right now. by the way, by cutting up tsunade's muscle, she'd have no way of attacking both oro and kabuto, because it made her punch really weak,

actually tsu slighty punched kabuto after kabuto raptured her intercoustel. but it was a proff that her punch was useless cause it did nothing to kabuto.

[Miles Edgeworth]

haha dude the fact is,

Orochimaru didnt want tsunade dead, kabuto is following orders, tsunade was getting her butt kicked even before the fear of blood came to playy.. and tsunade was arguably blood lusted.. she even charged at them saying IM GONNA KILL YOU haha that sounds like blood lust to me..


hello? you restricted manda? its only fair for both boss summon to be restricted..haha your funny. look back at ur post.. ur the one who's restricting manda at the first place..

okie if both could summon, it doesnt change fact that tsunade lacks feats to beat both oro and kabuto

even with her mitonic regenaration, she was barely able to severely damage oro in that small time frame, just think, if kabuto helped out, that wouldnt have happened.

By getting her butt kicked you mean got hit a few times. Yeah, must mean that the first guy to punch is totally owning, right? Also, the simple solution would have been to punch the ground and then attack Kabuto and Oro, or to have summoned Katsuyu.

Don't baw just because it's not "fair", Tsunade can summon on her own, Kabuto and Oro both need each other to summon. Do you honestly think that Tsunade will stand there and let that happen? Also, it's a bit hard for Oro to summon if Kabuto is dead. And by hard I mean impossible. Pay attention to what other people are saying before posting something ridiculous like "lol you restricted Manda so Katsuyu should be too", I didn't restrict anything, I stated that common sense is that Katsuyu is much more likely to flatten them than they take ten seconds to work together and summon Manda.

Because Oro did so much more damage.

[RealNinja]

Hold up why do people keep saying that was medical ninjutsu Tsunade used on Kabuo nerves. That was medical Knowledge she used her chakra turned lightning.

[SimpleGenin]

By getting her butt kicked you mean got hit a few times. Yeah, must mean that the first guy to punch is totally owning, right? Also, the simple solution would have been to punch the ground and then attack Kabuto and Oro, or to have summoned Katsuyu.

Don't baw just because it's not "fair", Tsunade can summon on her own, Kabuto and Oro both need each other to summon. Do you honestly think that Tsunade will stand there and let that happen? Also, it's a bit hard for Oro to summon if Kabuto is dead. And by hard I mean impossible. Pay attention to what other people are saying before posting something ridiculous like "lol you restricted Manda so Katsuyu should be too", I didn't restrict anything, I stated that common sense is that Katsuyu is much more likely to flatten them than they take ten seconds to work together and summon Manda.

Because Oro did so much more damage.

haha the point is that tsunade couldnt even keep up with kabuto's speed. she's totally outclassed.. you really need to watch the anime or read the manga again.. ,.. tsunade had trouble beating a sick orochimaru even with her mitonic regeneration, she barely had enough time before her jutsu wears off to "beat" orochimaru. Add Kabuto to the fight, a ninja faster then Tsunade, its just overkill..

and remember, before jiraiya jumped into the fight, tsunade had her muscles torned, and she couldnt use her massive strenght, you think that same beat up tsunade could fight both oro and kabuto at the same time, take in mind that oro was just standing thier watching.

yeah because tsunade summoned katsuyu in an instant right? haha impossible for oro and kabuto to summon manda? thats just funny, because even with jiraiya, naruto, and shizune's help, they were still able to summon manda. and thats fact too and after tsunade got over her fear of blood..if oro see's tsunade forming hand signals for summoning, he'd obviously call kabuto to summon manda and possibly other snake summon. and tsunade WAS punching the ground, thats why she was soo tired but that didnt do much actually all it did was tire her out... proff is in the manga.. i kinda expected a better arguement from you, but to me your just over estimating tsunade's capabilitie.. if you dont even realize how bad tsunade was doing in the fight then its kinda pointless arguing with you..

the sannins are my favorite characters, tsunade on top of that, but i wont argue that she'd win this fight because clearly, she was getting beat up by kabuto alone until, he let his gaurd down. and without help, she'd have no chance against both oro and kabuto.

[gama-sennin]

haha the point is that tsunade couldnt even keep up with kabuto's speed. she's totally outclassed.. you really need to watch the anime or read the manga again.. ,.. tsunade had trouble beating a sick orochimaru even with her mitonic regeneration, she barely had enough time before her jutsu wears off to "beat" orochimaru. Add Kabuto to the fight, a ninja faster then Tsunade, its just overkill..

Kabuto took the pill before the fight. He said it himself that, he needed the pill to boost his speed and taijutsu. During that fight each of the big three had some sort weakness, Jiraiya was drugged, Oro didn't have his hands and Tsunade had hemophobia. The moment Tsunade started beating him, Kabuto used blood to distract her. This simply means that Kabuto was getting his butt kicked even with soldier pill. The most important point is, Tsunade was fighting for the first time after 10/15 years.

and remember, before jiraiya jumped into the fight, tsunade had her muscles torned, and she couldnt use her massive strenght, you think that same beat up tsunade could fight both oro and kabuto at the same time, take in mind that oro was just standing thier watching.

Tsunade was not bloodlusted at that time. You can not blame her for the hemophobia as it was psychological. She lost two important people and that kinda loss can affect anyone.
Oro got his butt kicked the moment he decided to fight Tsunade.

yeah because tsunade summoned katsuyu in an instant right? haha impossible for oro and kabuto to summon manda? thats just funny, because even with jiraiya, naruto, and shizune's help, they were still able to summon manda. and thats fact too and after tsunade got over her fear of blood..if oro see's tsunade forming hand signals for summoning, he'd obviously call kabuto to summon manda and possibly other snake summon. and tsunade WAS punching the ground, thats why she was soo tired but that didnt do much actually all it did was tire her out... proff is in the manga.. i kinda expected a better arguement from you, but to me your just over estimating tsunade's capabilitie.. if you dont even realize how bad tsunade was doing in the fight then its kinda pointless arguing with you..

Tsunade became tired because she was out of practice and hadn't fought/trained for years. Naruto and shizune were fodders back then and Jiraiya was drugged.

the sannins are my favorite characters, tsunade on top of that, but i wont argue that she'd win this fight because clearly, she was getting beat up by kabuto alone until, he let his gaurd down. and without help, she'd have no chance against both oro and kabuto.

That was his mistake and actually you should praise Tunade for taking advantage of that even after getting her leg, hand and breathing muscles cut up. IIRC she kicked Oro's butt after getting rid of the hemophobia. Oro survived only becuse of his kinjutsu, anyone else would have died right there. She even stabbed manda which is an incredible feat IMO.


In yellow.

I dont why but, people, particularly on this forum, seem to hate Tsunade tooth and nail. You need to understand that Kishi has not developed her at all since the TS. That is the reason why she looks weak in comparison to someone like J-man or kakashi.

About her fighting power with current "feats", she definitely looks weaker than almost 70% of top/mid tier characters.

[SimpleGenin]

Kabuto took the pill before the fight. He said it himself that, he needed the pill to boost his speed and taijutsu. During that fight each of the big three had some sort weakness, Jiraiya was drugged, Oro didn't have his hands and Tsunade had hemophobia. The moment Tsunade started beating him, Kabuto used blood to distract her. This simply means that Kabuto was getting his butt kicked even with soldier pill. The most important point is, Tsunade was fighting for the first time after 10/15 years.

kabuto didnt say anything about him needing it to boost his speed and taijutsu.. but he did need it to replenish chakra. Tsunade was getting her butt kicked after kabuto took the pills. Your right about them having some sort of weakness, but the fact is that Orochimaru's condition was much worse. Kabuto wasnt blood lusted either, he thought that tearing up her muscles was enough to restrain her. Remember Oro didnt want her dead. But Tsunade did want Oro and Kabuto dead. Tsunade was bloodlused.

Tsunade was not bloodlusted at that time. You can not blame her for the hemophobia as it was psychological. She lost two important people and that kinda loss can affect anyone.
Oro got his butt kicked the moment he decided to fight Tsunade.

"Im gonna kill you" Tsunade said something like that. That doesnt mean bloodlusted.. fact is Tsunade was trying to kill Oro and Kabuto, and Oro didnt want her dead. Thats why kabuto let his gaurd down, if kabuto and Oro were bloodlusted, whats stopping Oro from helping Kabuto before Jiraiya jumped in?


Tsunade became tired because she was out of practice and hadn't fought/trained for years. Naruto and shizune were fodders back then and Jiraiya was drugged.

Irrelavent.. She was what she was. Its not like Orochimaru was healthy.

That was his mistake and actually you should praise Tunade for taking advantage of that even after getting her leg, hand and breathing muscles cut up. IIRC she kicked Oro's butt after getting rid of the hemophobia. Oro survived only becuse of his kinjutsu, anyone else would have died right there. She even stabbed manda which is an incredible feat IMO.

excactly because he was not bloodlusted. he didnt want her dead. Orochimaru wasnt even helping Kabuto. Yes Tsunade has Mitonic Regeneration, but the jutsu didnt last long, it barely lasted when she fought off Orochimaru alone, with kabuto helping out Oro, its a bit too much for Tsunade.


you should really read past comments.. i hate repeating myself over and over again.. basically we were arguing about weither Tsunade could have won without Jiraiya, Naruto and Shizune. And my answer was no she couldnt have. even without the fear of blood.

Sealed Oro + Kabuto > Tsunade
Manda > Katsuyu

no matter how you put it, Tsunade losses

and i dont hate Tsunade, She's my favorite character.. But unlike SOME ppl, im reasonable about her capabilities.





in green.

[gama-sennin]

kabuto didnt say anything about him needing it to boost his speed and taijutsu.. but he did need it to replenish chakra. Tsunade was getting her butt kicked after kabuto took the pills. Your right about them having some sort of weakness, but the fact is that Orochimaru's condition was much worse. Kabuto wasnt blood lusted either, he thought that tearing up her muscles was enough to restrain her. Remember Oro didnt want her dead. But Tsunade did want Oro and Kabuto dead. Tsunade was bloodlused.



Kabuto said he needed the pill because his taijutsu was weak. Orochimaru's condition was almost as bad as the others. He still had the huge advantage of being nearly immortal.

I think you should accept that Tsunade forced Kabuto to use tricks, instead giving excuses like "he wasnt serious". Read chapter 164 again and you will realize that, Tsunade was the one with biggest disadvantage. She had no knowledge about Kabuto, whereas Kabuto was thoroughly prepared for the battle.


"Im gonna kill you" Tsunade said something like that. That doesnt mean bloodlusted.. fact is Tsunade was trying to kill Oro and Kabuto, and Oro didnt want her dead. Thats why kabuto let his gaurd down, if kabuto and Oro were bloodlusted, whats stopping Oro from helping Kabuto before Jiraiya jumped in?


I never said Oro was BL from the beginning. But it was so because Oro needed her to treat his arms and its same as Akatuki going "easy" on jinchuriki.


Irrelavent.. She was what she was. Its not like Orochimaru was healthy.


Not really. I repeat Oro still had his near immortal status and Tsunade was totally out of match practice.


excactly because he was not bloodlusted. he didnt want her dead. Orochimaru wasnt even helping Kabuto. Yes Tsunade has Mitonic Regeneration, but the jutsu didnt last long, it barely lasted when she fought off Orochimaru alone, with kabuto helping out Oro, its a bit too much for Tsunade.


The jutsu lasted long enough to stab manda and beat the crap out of Oro. And when she fought him one on one, Oro was BL.


you should really read past comments.. i hate repeating myself over and over again.. basically we were arguing about weither Tsunade could have won without Jiraiya, Naruto and Shizune. And my answer was no she couldnt have. even without the fear of blood.

Sealed Oro + Kabuto > Tsunade
Manda > Katsuyu

no matter how you put it, Tsunade losses

and i dont hate Tsunade, She's my favorite character.. But unlike SOME ppl, im reasonable about her capabilities.


I am also being reasonable here. You will never see me backing Tsunade against someone like current Kakashi, with the "feats" she has got.

That battle was hugely biased against Tsunade and I hate it when people judge her powers based on that battle alone only because Kishimoto-sama sucks at developing female characters.

[SimpleGenin]

Kabuto said he needed the pill because his taijutsu was weak. Orochimaru's condition was almost as bad as the others. He still had the huge advantage of being nearly immortal.

thats not what he said at all. this is the same oro that was dying from the pain . look it up, how many times had kabuto said something like, i cant believe his will is this great, his hanging on by sheer will. and this happened in about the same time frame so dont tell me Oro is nearly immortal because the fact is he was dying.

I think you should accept that Tsunade forced Kabuto to use tricks, instead giving excuses like "he wasnt serious". Read chapter 164 again and you will realize that, Tsunade was the one with biggest disadvantage. She had no knowledge about Kabuto, whereas Kabuto was thoroughly prepared for the battle.

soo.? the arguement is about weither Tsunade could have survived by herself without the others help. Irrelevant


I never said Oro was BL from the beginning. But it was so because Oro needed her to treat his arms and its same as Akatuki going "easy" on jinchuriki.

excactly so Im right, Tsunade was blood lusted unlike Oro and Kabuto.
and the akatsuki thing,true but Irrelevant.. so what.. were are not talking about no jinchuriki. we are talking about tsunade facing oro and kabuto with no help from anyone.


Not really. I repeat Oro still had his near immortal status and Tsunade was totally out of match practice.

Tsunade was out of shape, ok but its irrelevant to the debate.
and again Oro was dying, even faster then kimimaru

The jutsu lasted long enough to stab manda and beat the crap out of Oro. And when she fought him one on one, Oro was BL.

again with Jiraiya's help.


I am also being reasonable here. You will never see me backing Tsunade against someone like current Kakashi, with the "feats" she has got.

then understand that tsunade cant fight, both Oro and Kabuto at the same time, if Jiraiya didnt jump in, she would have lost.

That battle was hugely biased against Tsunade and I hate it when people judge her powers based on that battle alone only because Kishimoto-sama sucks at developing female characters.

well duh, ofcourse we have to use that batte, its her only fight. Kishimoto made all the characters, he made the whole naruto world, the characters is who they are no matter what you say.

thats one big dif between us, i can talk about tsunade in this matter but i really think she is strong in her own ways.. being hailed as the most powerful kunuichi means alot, and for me, what she did to save konoha in the pain invasion made me envy her more. true she didnt fight, but it isnt all about the fighting, no one else could have protected the village from a large scale ST the way she did.



green