Kakashi did not stop a supersonic arrow.

[RealNinja]

Sorry folks it has come to this. This will be a nasty debate most likely but here goes. I am going to say this nowhere in chapter 484 where kakashi stop the susanoo arrow was it stated that the arrow was supersonic. So I call for a reviewing of the play.

[Shikamaru Nara]

It's proven by speed feats. And if you think we're wrong, calculate it yourself.

[Lone Wolf]

It's proven by speed feats. And if you think we're wrong, calculate it yourself.

Uh please can I see the Calc?

[SimpleGenin]

It's proven by speed feats. And if you think we're wrong, calculate it yourself.
supersonic? do ppl even know how fast that is.. thats faster then sound..
kakashi's arrows fast but no where near supersonic. calculate? ur kidding me

[Shikamaru Nara]

I didn't make a claim, now did I? I said that the BG proved it, not I.

[Lone Wolf]

Well then link us to that calc please. You seem to know about it.

You'd have to be stupid to believe that arrow was Supersonic without seeing a Calculation.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Ok I will take this seriously now ,

Supersonic is the speed over 343m/s , So Susano'o's Arrow was traveling Faster than 343m/s , As it made obvious sonic Booms .. And Kakashi was standing about 50 meters away in his ordinary sharingan (Headband off) .. So Do your maths and tell me And object moving with speed approximately 343m/s ( I think it is much higher , But i will go with that now ) with distance 50 meters , How long does it takes for the arrow to reach Kakashi ?
I will give you the answer , Approximately 0.146 seconds .. [Keep this in mind now]

Now , If you practice Martial arts , The basic rule for evading and Countering an attack is " TO DODGE AND COUNTER AN ATTACK , YOU MUST BE FASTER THAN THE ATTACK ITSELF "

Then when adding the two points together Kakashi activating The MS Must be around 0.073 or less ..

So there is no way Gai can open the gates in 0.073 Seconds .. Just that ..


That is it ,

But to answer your second part about The blows which i think will never happen but I will clarify it to you ..
Remember at the beginning of shippuden , Kakakshi at very Low chakra was able to wrap a Large explosion Which Team Gai or Anyone in the forest Couldn't avoid ..
At this point Kakashi's Kamui Chakra control was Low , So Was his accuracy .. So Now he can arguably Make the Space/Time portal Large enough To take all of the blows ..

Man , I need to watch the mentalist so pay me a favor and stop arguing , But if you continued this nonsense I will Hunt you down (JOKE ) ..



You were saying...?

[Lone Wolf]

Was that calc accepted? Try posting that Calc in the OBD, and see if they accept it.

[RealNinja]

That arrow was fast but it wasnt as fast as everyone claimed. Its comparable to pains nail but not super sonic. The chapter was hyped beyond imagination.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Was that calc accepted? Try posting that Calc in the OBD, and see if they accept it.

I did some calculating and this is what I got.

Transonic
Mach 0.8 = 272 m/s = 892 ft/s
Mach 0.9 = 306 m/s = 1004 ft/s

Sonic
Mach 1 = 340 m/s = 1116 ft/s

Supersonic
Mach 2 = 681 m/s = 2234 ft/s
Mach 3 = 1021 m/s = 3350 ft/s
Mach 4 = 1361 m/s = 4465 ft/s

Hypersonic
Mach 5 = 1701 m/s = 5581 ft/s
Mach 6 = 2042 m/s = 6699 ft/s
Mach 7 = 2382 m/s = 7815 ft/s
Mach 8 = 2722 m/s = 8930 ft/s
Mach 9 = 3063 m/s = 10049 ft/s
Mach 10 = 3403 m/s = 11165 ft/s

These levels should just about be right, I just didn't bother to add the decimals because I rounded them up.



You're from OBD, yet I don't see you countering.

[Lone Wolf]

I don't do Fiction Calculations, nor do I care about it.

But I have to say, anyone can make a Calc, but you never know whether its good or stupid.

Thats why you need legit people to accept it before you can use it.

Until then Susanoo arrows is not Supersonic.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I don't do Fiction Calculations, nor do I care about it.

But I have to say, anyone can make a Calc, but you never know whether its good or stupid.

Thats why you need legit people to accept it before you can use it.

Until then Susanoo arrows is not Supersonic.

Neither do I. But obviously the people who have posted the calculations, and honestly, I don't care either, but I'm still posting them to prove a point.

Yes, but since you don't care for it, you have nothing to prove me wrong, so as far as I can tell, my debate is valid.

Kyousei is quite intelligent, hence, a reliable source.

I have proof, what do you have?

[SimpleGenin]

hahaha im laughing so hard i had to pee..
its simple common sense.. no number needed.. you just need to know how fast supersonic/subsonic means.. faster then voice travels through the air. yes you showed numbers but this is ANIME, they just do those super fast move to make things look cooler and such..

just my opinion, i dont really buy this whole supersonic thing...

[Lone Wolf]

Kyousei never said anything about Susanoo arrows, what proof is that?

You don't just make a calc and decide to use it whenever you want, you need to get other people to check if its acceptable or not.

[Shikamaru Nara]

hahaha im laughing so hard i had to pee..
its simple common sense.. no number needed.. you just need to know how fast supersonic/subsonic means.. faster then voice travels through the air. yes you showed numbers but this is ANIME, they just do those super fast move to make things look cooler and such..

just my opinion, i dont really buy this whole supersonic thing...

Yeah, according to your logic:

You can't calculate speed and it's a load of crap.

In the meantime, you don't have proof.

[Lone Wolf]

Shikamaru Nara, neither do you, all I see you providing is how fast each mach number is and Nero's Unreliable calc which he made up without people even going through it.

Therefore that Calc can't be used as proof.

[RealNinja]

I cant beleive this is what they have based their arguements on. Man your calculations dont mean diddly if they didnt come out the character or creator mouth they are trash. I cant beleive this turned out to be a stomp thread. I thought there was better arguements.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Kyousei never said anything about Susanoo arrows, what proof is that?

You don't just make a calc and decide to use it whenever you want, you need to get other people to check if its acceptable or not.

Kyousei gave general calculations. They can be used for anything that they need to be used for. Speed doesn't change, I think you would know that.

Mhm, then read the thread.

[SimpleGenin]

Yeah, according to your logic:

You can't calculate speed and it's a load of crap.

In the meantime, you don't have proof.
This is ANIME.
the furthest thing in kishimoto's mind is this cal on speed. they just make the arrows fast to make a point.. that there fast.. but cal is just no logically not to mention very weird.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Shikamaru Nara, neither do you, all I see you providing is how fast each mach number is and Nero's Unreliable calc which he made up without people even going through it.

Therefore that Calc can't be used as proof.

Okay. And that's more than enough. If you know the mach number, it's easy peasy to make an assumption.

I cant beleive this is what they have based their arguements on. Man your calculations dont mean diddly if they didnt come out the character or creator mouth they are trash. I cant beleive this turned out to be a stomp thread. I thought there was better arguements.

I can, it takes intelligence to come up with a calculation, which is proven. Unless you think you could make one.

So, based on that, databooks are correct. And anybody who's anybody knows that Databooks are trash. I'm sure Lone Wolf knows this as well.

Plus, I haven't seen you give a debate. You're just calling my debate trash, not providing calcs or anything.

There aren't. And if there are, you can make them. I'll counter.

[Shikamaru Nara]

This is ANIME.
the furthest thing in kishimoto's mind is this cal on speed. they just make the arrows fast to make a point.. that there fast.. but cal is just no logically not to mention very weird.

But we're not talking about Kishi, are we? We're talking about Susano'o Arrows. Feats speak louder than opinions, which is all I've been hearing in this thread.

Gee, make a comment like it's weird. Could that possibly be because you can't make a calc, and you think it's abnormal?

[RealNinja]

Man the calcs are not real no matter how you swing it. The facts are the arrow was fast, Kakashi stopped it and shown improvement. But in the end the arrow was nothing too serious in the world of Naruto. We have seen plenty of stuff move that fast. People throw kunai fast but its not super sonic. Until you can point out that in the manga or anime Naruto that it is stated and shown the arrow is supersonic your arguement does not hold up.

[Lone Wolf]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't see any feat that put those arrows anywhere near 2-3 times the speed of sound.

Find me such feats.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Man the calcs are not real no matter how you swing it. The facts are the arrow was fast, Kakashi stopped it and shown improvement. But in the end the arrow was nothing too serious in the world of Naruto. We have seen plenty of stuff move that fast. People throw kunai fast but its not super sonic. Until you can point out that in the manga or anime Naruto that it is stated and shown the arrow is supersonic your arguement does not hold up.


If the calcs aren't real, how do you suppose you can say that Raikage is High supersonic? Or any other speed feat?

PROVE IT! :lol:

I did. What did you do?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't see any feat that put those arrows anywhere near 2-3 times the speed of sound.

Find me such feats.

Find me facts proving it's not true.

[Lone Wolf]

Its on that page, there is no way that arrow moved anywhere near the speed of sound.

[Shikamaru Nara]

It did. Prove me wrong.

[Lone Wolf]

May I ask how that arrow was twice the speed of sound?

With a Legit Calc made by an OBDer?

[Shikamaru Nara]

I've yet to see you make one. I've given one here, now it's your turn. How fast is it, then?

[RealNinja]

If the calcs aren't real, how do you suppose you can say that Raikage is High supersonic? Or any other speed feat?

PROVE IT! :lol:

I did. What did you do?

I never stated that Raikage was high supersonic thats a debate for another day. The calcs are meaning less because they dont relate to the show. The calcs are basicaly fan fiction. The only way to truly see what is faster is by looking at the chapters and comparing them. My proof is none of the calcs are in Naruto period. Unless you can prove me wrong then they dont count. Everything I say is in Naruto.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I never stated that Raikage was high supersonic thats a debate for another day. The calcs are meaning less because they dont relate to the show. The calcs are basicaly fan fiction. The only way to truly see what is faster is by looking at the chapters and comparing them. My proof is none of the calcs are in Naruto period. Unless you can prove me wrong then they dont count. Everything I say is in Naruto.

They're not in motion, so that doesn't make sense.

[Lone Wolf]

I've yet to see you make one. I've given one here, now it's your turn. How fast is it, then?

Why would I make one? I'm the one asking how it was that fast.

That one isn't quantifiable, as it never got accepted.

Why don't you just get me a calc made by an OBDer? That will make things much easier instead of wasting time here.

[Lone Wolf]

Nero made his just recently, the Supersonic arrow has been going on for ages, so other people must made calcs about it.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Why would I make one? I'm the one asking how it was that fast.

That one isn't quantifiable, as it never got accepted.

Why don't you just get me a calc made by an OBDer? That will make things much easier instead of wasting time here.

I don't feel like searching. Tell me how fast it is. And why. Then I'll look in OBD.

[Lone Wolf]

Other people keep on saying its Supersonic and I'm asking where they got this from.

Nero made his recently but this has been going on for ages.

[RealNinja]

If you cant compare it from the manga then how did the calcs come into existence. That contradicting your ownself.

[Lone Wolf]

But this is animu, its srs buisness. I knew I should just read a manga then discuss without getting involved in debates. Well here I am, but it isn't too late to change. : )

[Shikamaru Nara]

If you cant compare it from the manga then how did the calcs come into existence. That contradicting your ownself.

They come from Math. xD

[The 1st Hokage]

I cant beleive this is what they have based their arguements on. Man your calculations dont mean diddly if they didnt come out the character or creator mouth they are trash. I cant beleive this turned out to be a stomp thread. I thought there was better arguements.http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-04-24/1240539866791.jpg

This is ANIME.
the furthest thing in kishimoto's mind is this cal on speed. they just make the arrows fast to make a point.. that there fast.. but cal is just no logically not to mention very weird.No, it's actually manga.

May I ask how that arrow was twice the speed of sound?

With a Legit Calc made by an OBDer?Must an OBDer make a calc for it to be correct? Is the fact that Dudemeister has used this as a point in some of his posts enough?

[RealNinja]

The truth would have neve come out if it wasnt for the fact people abused Kaumi.

[Shikamaru Nara]

The truth would have neve come out if it wasnt for the fact people abused Kaumi.

They used it in debates. Not abused. xD

[The 1st Hokage]

The truth would have neve come out if it wasnt for the fact people abused Kaumi.
Truth? Shikamaru and I are waiting for an actual calc. Not some made up garbage that you made up. Nero's calc may not be 100% correct. I'm not great with 'em, nor do I create them, though after I read it and compaired everything, it looked mostly correct unless Lone Wolf or you can prove it wrong.

[RealNinja]

No it was abused. Come on Kaumi to the head no counter then just repeated.

[Lone Wolf]

My Co Workers were absolutely right, Anime is serious to the point where people even bother to use mathematics and logic to CALCULATE speed and power. And then use them in debates.

Its meant for entertainment in the first place.

[The 1st Hokage]

No it was abused. Come on Kaumi to the head no counter then just repeated.
To an extent, that's all it takes, though adversity is is one thing Kakashi has, and alot of things should be taken into consideration.
My Co Workers were absolutely right, Anime is serious to the point where people even bother to use mathematics and logic to CALCULATE speed and power. And then use them in debates.

Its meant for entertainment in the first place.
So you're saying that you do not have a calc. to back up your assumtions and can not counter us properly therefor you talk about how anime and manga are treated to seriously? I completely understand.

[RealNinja]

Truth? Shikamaru and I are waiting for an actual calc. Not some made up garbage that you made up. Nero's calc may not be 100% correct. I'm not great with 'em, nor do I create them, though after I read it and compaired everything, it looked mostly correct unless Lone Wolf or you can prove it wrong.

Nothing thats being said comes from the manga. How can you calc something that doent move like shikamaru pointed out.The only thing that is being used is some numbers somebody created because they were bored. There is nowhere in the manga was it stated that it was supersonic it did not even look supersonic.
So listen to these questions.

Was it stated in Naruto that the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Did it even look supersonic?
nope
Are there any calcs in Naruto?
Nope
Did kishi say the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Come on now the dream is over.

[Lone Wolf]

So you're saying that you do not have a calc. to back up your assumtions and can not counter us properly therefor you talk about how anime and manga are treated to seriously? I completely understand.

From what I can see your treating an entertainment seriously.

I don't have a calc because:

1. I have never taken a lesson where it teaches you how to calculate the speed of fictional characters.

2. By making a calc I'm officially treating Anime seriously, which I don't plan on doing.

3. Why not just enjoy the anime? Why would you want to DEBATE on which character is stronger?

Actually screw this.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Nothing thats being said comes from the manga. How can you calc something that doent move like shikamaru pointed out.The only thing that is being used is some numbers somebody created because they were bored. There is nowhere in the manga was it stated that it was supersonic it did not even look supersonic.
So listen to these questions.

Was it stated in Naruto that the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Did it even look supersonic?
nope
Are there any calcs in Naruto?
Nope
Did kishi say the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Come on now the dream is over.

http://lemurking.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/liberal_moron.jpg

[Lone Wolf]

http://lemurking.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/liberal_moron.jpg

Exactly what I mean, Anime is serious business.

[Lone Wolf]

Nothing thats being said comes from the manga. How can you calc something that doent move like shikamaru pointed out.The only thing that is being used is some numbers somebody created because they were bored. There is nowhere in the manga was it stated that it was supersonic it did not even look supersonic.
So listen to these questions.

Was it stated in Naruto that the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Did it even look supersonic?
nope
Are there any calcs in Naruto?
Nope
Did kishi say the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Come on now the dream is over.

Listen to this man, he speaks the truth.

[The 1st Hokage]

Nothing thats being said comes from the manga. How can you calc something that doent move like shikamaru pointed out.The only thing that is being used is some numbers somebody created because they were bored. There is nowhere in the manga was it stated that it was supersonic it did not even look supersonic.
So listen to these questions.

Was it stated in Naruto that the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Did it even look supersonic?
nope
Are there any calcs in Naruto?
Nope
Did kishi say the arrow was supersonic?
Nope
Come on now the dream is over.
It doesn't have to come from thew Manga. No one has to say it. Kishi doesn't have to confirm anything. Math > Statements

[RealNinja]

From what I can see your treating an entertainment seriously.

I don't have a calc because:

1. I have never taken a lesson where it teaches you how to calculate the speed of fictional characters.

2. By making a calc I'm officially treating Anime seriously, which I don't plan on doing.

3. Why not just enjoy the anime? Why would you want to DEBATE on which character is stronger?

Actually screw this.

Hmmm

1. Nope dont beleive in it.

2. Its a hobby not my job.

3. Why does everybody hate raymond?

[RealNinja]

You what I am going to stop since I am dissing some of you guys hobby. I actually dont want to do that.

[The 1st Hokage]

From what I can see your treating an entertainment seriously.

I don't have a calc because:

1. I have never taken a lesson where it teaches you how to calculate the speed of fictional characters.

2. By making a calc I'm officially treating Anime seriously, which I don't plan on doing.

3. Why not just enjoy the anime? Why would you want to DEBATE on which character is stronger?

Actually screw this.I did, and still do watch anime for entertainment, but I take feats and calcx's seriously when I debate.

1. Nor have I, which is why I don't make them, I just view them.

2. I use is as entertainment, and when in the BG, I take feats, ect. seriously.

3. Why are you in the BG then?

Listen to this man, he speaks the truth.
Yet he is going against the BG rules in every way, which were made to help people debate properly, and not going off character statments or Author's confirmation.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I did, and still do watch anime for entertainment, but I take feats and calcx's seriously when I debate.

1. Nor have I, which is why I don't make them, I just view them.

2. I use is as entertainment, and when in the BG, I take feats, ect. seriously.

3. Why are you in the BG then?


Yet he is going against the BG rules in every way, which were made to help people debate properly, and not going off character statments or Author's confirmation.
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2010/6/28/634133400453895820-Trolls.jpg

[Lone Wolf]

You know what? ;);););) this, I'm gonna ask for a Permanent ban.

Happy? I hope so.

[Shikamaru Nara]

You know what? ;);););) this, I'm gonna ask for a Permanent ban.

Happy? I hope so.

Seriously? You lost, big deal.

[RealNinja]

How did I lose your calc dont mean a thing. So just continue flamming if that makes you happy. Its pretty sad though losers dont know how to lose gracefully.
Book vs fan I choose book with the real feat not one made up.

[The 1st Hokage]

How did I lose your calc dont mean a thing. So just continue flamming if that makes you happy. Its pretty sad though losers dont know how to lose gracefully.
Book vs fan I choose book with the real feat not one made up.
The feat was drawn, the calc was made. By Kishi drawing it, he confrimed it.

[FlyingThunderGod]

F*C*F*C*S please stop its obvious that Susanno is not supersonic. It has to be light speed.

[RealNinja]

They are not going to stop because it has been used for so long they dont want to let it go.

[FlyingThunderGod]

im not sure if my post was erased, but like i said obviously it was lightspeed and Kamui is faster than light speed.

[RealNinja]

Calcs Ha

[deidara330]

I could seriously just calculate the speed right now and end this whole debate. If I cared, that is. Until I see anyone else's calc and agree, nothing is any speed, at all. (Edit: At least to me.) Too many people saying This is Supersonic and That's FTL and This is OVER 9000 with no proof. Seriously. `:|:roll:

[The 1st Hokage]

im not sure if my post was erased, but like i said obviously it was lightspeed and Kamui is faster than light speed.
Oh, sorry. I just thought you were trollin'. Sorry, I'll undelete it.
Calcs HaWhy is it funny? I never saw you come up with anything. You said the arrwos were not supersonic, and gave no proof why they weren't.

[RealNinja]

Thank you why would calc it anyway seem like time better used.

[RealNinja]

Oh, sorry. I just thought you were trollin'. Sorry, I'll undelete it.
Why is it funny? I never saw you come up with anything. You said the arrwos were not supersonic, and gave no proof why they weren't.
My proof was the chapter itself 484. That speed was fast but it could easily be compared to other speed feats but there was no way it was supersonic. For instance it could actualy be compared to lee speed when he was using his gates against gaara. Anyways can you give me any proof beside the make beleive calcs.

[The 1st Hokage]

My proof was the chapter itself 484. That speed was fast but it could easily be compared to other speed feats but there was no way it was supersonic. For instance it could actualy be compared to lee speed when he was using his gates against gaara. Anyways can you give me any proof beside the make beleive calcs.
They ain't make believe if they can't be proved wrong. ;)

How can you compare Lee's movement's to an arrow? They are very different in directions, size, and distance.

[RealNinja]

They ain't make believe if they can't be proved wrong. ;)

How can you compare Lee's movement's to an arrow? They are very different in directions, size, and distance.

They are wrong from the simple fact that the calcs represent how fast each level of speed is. If the manga doesnt say how fast it was then you cannot put it in a category.

Not comparing movement comparing speed. The manga speed vary so much you cannot calc it just compare.

Anyways we are off topic the arrow was not supersonic it was just realy fast case closed.

[deidara330]

They ain't make believe if they can't be proved wrong. ;)

How can you compare Lee's movement's to an arrow? They are very different in directions, size, and distance.I still have yet to see a calc. The only one I see in this thread was Nero's calc of Kakashi's Kamui speed which was based on the assumption that the arrow was moving at Supersonic speeds.

Hmmm, Lee may actually be faster than the arrow. I didn't calc it, but during Lee's fight with Gaara, Lee makes many quick movements in fractions of a second. I could be wrong, though.

[RealNinja]

The whole point of this thread is Kakashi did not stop a supersonic arrow.

[LUCKY.KAKASHI]

If kakashi couldn't dodge it then it is supersonic speed, it is simple .

[The 1st Hokage]

I still have yet to see a calc. The only one I see in this thread was Nero's calc of Kakashi's Kamui speed which was based on the assumption that the arrow was moving at Supersonic speeds.

Hmmm, Lee may actually be faster than the arrow. I didn't calc it, but during Lee's fight with Gaara, Lee makes many quick movements in fractions of a second. I could be wrong, though.
Well, I can attempt to make a calc. then fail horribly. :roll: I can check the math of a calc. but I do not have the skil lto make one myself.

[Kuromaki]

I'm not willing to calculate it, but it did make what could be a sonic boom when it was first fired. That's not really reliable though.

Dudemeister mentioned an OBD calc of its speed, I think, but he didn't have the link. It might be linked in the OBD wiki, if you care about it that much maybe you should check.

[deidara330]

Well, I can attempt to make a calc. then fail horribly. :roll: I can check the math of a calc. but I do not have the skil lto make one myself.Do you know how to do one?

[Kon]

If kakashi couldn't dodge it then it is supersonic speed, it is simple .

Im Sure Minato could have tho

[deidara330]

Im Sure Minato could have thoThe arrow actually seems very dodge-able. The arrow itself can't be more than a few feet wide, your speed only needs to be fast enough to move out of range of the arrow to avoid taking a direct hit. Both Danzo and Kakashi likely had the speed to dodge a direct hit, the only reason they didn't was to create dramatic effect for the manga. It worked, too, because a lot of people are making claims that it's quite fast.

[RealNinja]

That wasnt a sonicboom that was fire from the susanoo. Got chapter page in tab right now.

[gama-sennin]

Nero's calc has no place in this thread. Nero was calulating kakashi's reaction speed assuming that the arrow travels at 343m/s which just a bit above the speed of sound. His calc doesn't prove it at all.

The only valid instance of sonic boom was when the arrow was fired against danzo for the first time. After that the sonic boom has never been used. The arrow that kakashi warped had no sonic boom either.

Actually if I were to use logic then I'll say the arrow is not at sonic/supersonic levels because there was only one instance of sonic boom out of around 7/8 times it was used.

[Nyruss]

http://www.orble.com/images/crying-baby21.jpg

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

[RealNinja]

Hmmm very interesting.

[321zigzag3]

No one does calculations from the anime.

Do you know why? Because anime is technically noncanon. Naruto anime is an adaptation technically of the naruto manga.

I don't know where some of you guys got the notion people use anime for calculations. Anime isn't a good place to learn the time rate anyway.


Anyway here is the idea behind the Susanoo supersonic arrow.
Apparently 5 gated Lee was supersonic.
Kakashi with his sharingan back in part 1 had no trouble following it.

Kakashi had immense trouble reacting to the arrow.

Get the drift?
See? We just compare and etc. Thats the easiest thing to do.

Also if you are going to judge Naruto manga by sonic booms you might as well say almost no one in Bleach is above sound level nor in One Piece.
I mean Oda shows his characters bullet timing all the time yet they don't make sonic booms.

Even in HxH, Cheetu moves faster than rifle bullets yet he doesn't make sonic booms.

Because most shonen manga writers don't care enough unless they actually want to show when they feel its necesary.

Same thing with comic books. Like the Flash? Not always. Quick Silver? Not always.


but really there was a calc in the OBD but most did accept I don't remember what it was.

[Phoenix Wright]

Personally I believe this:

Anime has absolutely nothing that can be brought from the manga that is canon.

I know it might seem like it, but really people, knowing anime exists and the general anime speed for things, it just doesn't work.

In the manga, not talking about calculations, things could be masively FTL and no one would know because they simply know of the anime.

There is no way to say that the Anime speeds at all are related to the manga, even though it seems so. As I said simply knowing anime exists shifts peoples minds as they think its the right speed for most things in general.

But no, the anime could be completely unrelated and really, you wouldn't know.

[RealNinja]

long story short just compare the speed by chapter pages way more simpler.

[Phoenix Wright]

Exactly.

Well RealNinja I'm starting to like your debating style. My post was sort of off-topic but I felt like saying that by the way.

On topic personally I'm with you and Lone Wolf (somewhat I suppose), the arrows aren't Supersonic.

[321zigzag3]

long story short just compare the speed by chapter pages way more simpler.

Or you can conclude that Kakashi in Part 1 Sharingan had no trouble following Gated Lee.

Yet in Part 2 Kakashi had immense trouble reacting to the arrow.



Also manga panels don't always go the same rate so you have to be careful about it too.

It really matters on the Author's intentions.

So I guess we don't need to know the calculation to prove the arrow was supersonic or not. :ugeek:

[kazzim13]

I only really have 1 problem with calculations. Even if it is math there is an unknown factor that is guessed upon when doing them. One cannot get an actual time reference from one snap shot of a scene. There is no accurate way to get a time reference that i know of unless it is stated by a character or the author.

We don't know in the case of the arrows if it was one second that pasted, three seconds that passed, or even one mili-second that pasted. It's all guess work for time and whoever does the calculation puts the time rate that past at what they believe it could be. In the end it's still a guess.

If I'm wrong about the time thing please let me know cause I've never heard of a way.

[RealNinja]

Nope thats why I said if it doesnt come from the story or creator it cant really be used.

[321zigzag3]

The only time rate kishimoto gave was Kirin and FRS speed crossing of the Chibaku Tensei crater.

Also Real Ninja do you think Gated Lee is supersonic?

[Phoenix Wright]

Well on most occasions the way to calculate is to pay most attention to the panels around. Sometimes there's something happening in the background (an item falling, etc) that can be calculated. For example, lets say I'm calculating Bob's speed. He goes 8 Gates(example) and I think he's gonna be pretty fast.

How do I check this?

Oh hey, I'm gonna have to do some calculations but that guy just sprayed blood everywhere. He's getting barraged so we should be able to calculate.

Well he keeps hitting him over and over and moving around really fast, we can barely see him and that blood just doesn't seem to be falling. Maybe he's a bit faster than we thought.

[321zigzag3]

I have this feeling my posts are getting ignored by Real Ninja.

Sometimes people you don't need to use calculations sometimes comparisons work jsut as well.


If Susanoo Arrow is not supersonic then Gated Lee is not either.

[Kon]

The arrow actually seems very dodge-able. The arrow itself can't be more than a few feet wide, your speed only needs to be fast enough to move out of range of the arrow to avoid taking a direct hit. Both Danzo and Kakashi likely had the speed to dodge a direct hit, the only reason they didn't was to create dramatic effect for the manga. It worked, too, because a lot of people are making claims that it's quite fast.

of course long drawn out battle scenes with injuries is what the consumers whant.....xD

[SimpleGenin]

no one in the narutoworld is supersonic.. i just get mad when ppl uses this whole super sonic thing cause ppl arent even thinking about how fast supersonic means..
and Kazzim13 has a point.. there is no way to calculate a speed of something or someone because you cant get real data base on the manga or the anime

[321zigzag3]

Sound speed is 343 m/s supersonic is anything above that.

[SimpleGenin]

I have this feeling my posts are getting ignored by Real Ninja.

Sometimes people you don't need to use calculations sometimes comparisons work jsut as well.


If Susanoo Arrow is not supersonic then Gated Lee is not either.
gated lee is not supersonic.. his very very fast but not super sonic..
just imagine your talking to someone across a room.. the moment you hear what the person say thats how fast this whole supersonic arguement means.. its just not even worth thinking about because kishimoto never had intended for ppl to cal speed.

[gama-sennin]

Also if you are going to judge Naruto manga by sonic booms you might as well say almost no one in Bleach is above sound level nor in One Piece.
I mean Oda shows his characters bullet timing all the time yet they don't make sonic booms.



It doesnt matter what Oda does with his characters, simply because he is not kishimoto. As far as naruto is concerned the higher speeds are almost always indicated by sonic booms. For example, a panel is dedicated to the senbons fired by the puppet in chiyo vs sasori fight. The only thing that panel proved is the speed with cone shaped(way above speed of sound) sonic boom.

If and only if there is a sonic boom, the character is above sonic range otherwise not.

[321zigzag3]

gated lee is not supersonic.. his very very fast but not super sonic..
just imagine your talking to someone across a room.. the moment you hear what the person say thats how fast this whole supersonic arguement means.. its just not even worth thinking about because kishimoto never had intended for ppl to cal speed.

Thats nice. No manga writer expects us. Some of us do it because we want to.

6 Gated Gai is supersonic as said by manga.

You know its all going by scaling thing. Maybe I should make a thread about this. I mean Kishimoto never said ninjas can't go above sound speed possibly. He never even guns > Ninjas either.

Even if Gated Gai is the only supersonic character it requires top tier to have supersonic reactions.

And FRS crossed the Chibaku Tensei crater in one second.

It doesnt matter what Oda does with his characters, simply because he is not kishimoto. As far as naruto is concerned the higher speeds are almost always indicated by sonic booms. For example, a panel is dedicated to the senbons fired by the puppet in chiyo vs sasori fight. The only thing that panel proved is the speed with cone shaped(way above speed of sound) sonic boom.

If and only if there is a sonic boom, the character is above sonic range otherwise not.

Reread my post. Most manga writers don't care enough. Its their regular pattern.

6 Gated Gai didn;t make booms either yet Kisame confirmed it.

Kirin didn't make booms either,

Not to mention Susanoo arrow is supposed one of the fastest attacks in the Narutoverse and FRS and theydidn't make booms either.

[Nyruss]

No sonic booms no supersonic. Meaning gated Gai is not supersonic. Character statements proven meaningless once more. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

[SimpleGenin]

Thats nice. No manga writer expects us. Some of us do it because we want to.

6 Gated Gai is supersonic as said by manga.

You know its all going by scaling thing. Maybe I should make a thread about this. I mean Kishimoto never said ninjas can't go above sound speed possibly. He never even guns > Ninjas either.

Even if Gated Gai is the only supersonic character it requires top tier to have supersonic reactions.

And FRS crossed the Chibaku Tensei crater in one second.



Reread my post. Most manga writers don't care enough. Its their regular pattern.

6 Gated Gai didn;t make booms either yet Kisame confirmed it.

Kirin didn't make booms either,

Not to mention Susanoo arrow is supposed one of the fastest attacks in the Narutoverse and FRS and theydidn't make booms either.

you smart.. you should make a thread.. i just dont like this whole thing about ppl thinking stuff is supersonic.. because it make "boom" what? thats sooo weird.

even if a character said something about sonic speed, can we really count that as an accurate bases.. think back on what it takes to be a ninja? as far as im concerned characters can exxagerate too.. to me its 50/50

[321zigzag3]

you smart.. you should make a thread.. i just dont like this whole thing about ppl thinking stuff is supersonic.. because it make "boom" what? thats sooo weird.

even if a character said something about sonic speed, can we really count that as an accurate bases.. think back on what it takes to be a ninja? as far as im concerned characters can exxagerate too.. to me its 50/50

If you truly think I should make this thread I will but not now. Tomorrow.

And no my belief on supersnic doesn't rely on booms.

The best thing is rely on what Kisame said and compare legit wise and rely on Kirin and FRS 1 second crossing.

I mean peak humans can run 100 meters in litle over 9 seconds.

Sound speed is 343 meters.
The idea that top tier ninjas are supersonic+ is not farfetched.

[SimpleGenin]

Sound speed is 343 m/s supersonic is anything above that.
and just think logically, can a character really move the fast.?
like i said before, kishimoto never intended for us to cal speed.

[gama-sennin]

Reread my post. Most manga writers don't care enough. Its their regular pattern.

Its in the drawing style. If writer X has consistently used sonic boom to indicate higher speeds it means he has to use it for continuity otherwise it simply means that the speed is not above sonic level.


Kirin didn't make booms either,

Kirin is supposed to be lighting so I think it should be obvious that it doesn't need sonic booms.

Not to mention Susanoo arrow is supposed one of the fastest attacks in the Narutoverse and FRS and they didn't make booms either.

Agreed about FRS.



In yellow.

[SimpleGenin]

another thing to think about.
its not like any character in the naruto world studied math. from what i saw, people born in the hidden villages starts training to become a ninja in a very young age.. and not really math nerds.. so kisame saying gai's supersonic can be exaggerated

[321zigzag3]

and just think logically, can a character really move the fast.?
like i said before, kishimoto never intended for us to cal speed.

Welcome to the world of fictional manga where people dodge bullets move insane speeds and etc and can bust cities to galaxies and some can move lightspeed.

There is nothing logical about it.

Neither did Kubo nor did Oda nor did anyone.

In yellow.

Umm no. Kishimoto is not always consistent with speed nor booms. The only boom attacks were Iron Sand drizzle and 4 tailed blast if I recall. thats it.

Susanoo arrow is supposed to be fast top tier speed partially by hype. kakashi's reactin speed.



another thing to think about.
its not like any character in the naruto world studied math. from what i saw, people born in the hidden villages starts training to become a ninja in a very young age.. and not really math nerds.. so kisame saying gai's supersonic can be exaggerated

You know that in real life setting fire through sheer speed requires breaking the sound barrier? Most of the situations involve low hypersonic speeds.

Also Kisame wasn't stating because he wanted to. Kishimoto was letting us know. Kishi's words. You said it yourself he expects not to calc. So he tells us at his convienance.

You are thinking too deeply into this man.

[RealNinja]

I dont even think anime or manga speed can really be gauged. It goes from fast, super fast, crazy fast, to ridiculous.

[SimpleGenin]

I dont even think anime or manga speed can really be gauged. It goes from fast, super fast, crazy fast, to ridiculous.
this is really the bottom line of what im trying to say.. u cant measure speeds in anime.. cause if u do, u get into this whole silly scientific stuff..
its either a character is fast, very fast very very fast, or extremely fast.. thats it..

[SimpleGenin]

You are thinking too deeply into this man.
oh yeah cause im the one who calculate speeds on anime.. :roll:

[321zigzag3]

I dont even think anime or manga speed can really be gauged. It goes from fast, super fast, crazy fast, to ridiculous.

Like I said. Unless the author gives or guns or the manga gives us a time rate. Or some distance its better of not being calculated.

this is really the bottom line of what im trying to say.. u cant measure speeds in anime.. cause if u do, u get into this whole silly scientific stuff..
its either a character is fast, very fast very very fast, or extremely fast.. thats it..

The heck? No one is measuring speed from the anime.

Another post of mine being ignored few pages back.

oh yeah cause im the one who calculate speeds on anime.. :roll:

I don't know about you but no one is calculating from teh anime since its noncanon so you are wrong no offense

OBD doesn't calculate from the anime.

Neither does anyone here.

I don't know who told you Cnorwood, Realninja, or you Simple Genin that we calculate from the anime. But no one is.

Manga is the only true source of canon. I have been repeating this lately.

My god. geez.

[SimpleGenin]

Manga is the only true source of canon. I have been repeating this lately.

My god. geez.
so we can find out how fast a characters are based on what?
how fast we flip the page? i just dont get how ppl can even measure speed mathematically in naruto manga. im not trying to make fun of you but its other ppl that im kinda sketchy about.. based on what u posted before, u kinda get what me and realninja are trying to say about this whole supersonic business.. ppl seem to through super sonic and sub sonic alot on the BG that its not even funny..

[321zigzag3]

so we can find out how fast a characters are based on what?

Like this?

Like I said. Unless the author gives or guns or the manga gives us a time rate. Or some distance its better of not being calculated.

how fast we flip the page? i just dont get how ppl can even measure speed mathematically in naruto manga.

Look at previous post. Mind you its not perfect. In fact it doesn't have to be. As long it is rough.

Mind you. Most calculations are null and void because its purely subjective but if you can base something the author declared it helps a lot.


im not trying to make fun of you but its other ppl that im kinda sketchy about.. based on what u posted before, u kinda get what me and realninja are trying to say about this whole supersonic business.. ppl seem to through super sonic and sub sonic alot on the BG that its not even funny..

I do understand. Which is why I don't even say supersonic or such unless I am comparing different universes like Naruto vs Fairy Tail.
Naruto vs Bleach. Naruto vs Avatar the LAst Airbender.

Don't worry it is healthy to be skeptical sometimes. Many throw it because they want Naruto to have credibility and etc in speed. Also you wouldn't be complaining as much if Naruto had guns.

Which is why Kishimoto gave us Gates, FRS, Susanoo arrow in hype, Killerbee's run to the nearest hill. DOsu's sound attacks, Kirin and etc.

Mind you Kishi like all writers have their inconsistencies.

I myself have doubted supersonic top tier until I saw FRS 1 crossin of the crater and realized its not too farfetched.



I am actually glad I stepped into this thread.

[SimpleGenin]

Like this?





Look at previous post. Mind you its not perfect. In fact it doesn't have to be. As long it is rough.

Mind you. Most calculations are null and void because its purely subjective but if you can base something the author declared it helps a lot.




I do understand. Which is why I don't even say supersonic or such unless I am comparing different universes like Naruto vs Fairy Tail.
Naruto vs Bleach. Naruto vs Avatar the LAst Airbender.

Don't worry it is healthy to be skeptical sometimes. Many throw it because they want Naruto to have credibility and etc in speed. Also you wouldn't be complaining as much if Naruto had guns.

Which is why Kishimoto gave us Gates, FRS, Susanoo arrow in hype, Killerbee's run to the nearest hill. DOsu's sound attacks, Kirin and etc.

Mind you Kishi like all writers have their inconsistencies.

I myself have doubted supersonic top tier until I saw FRS 1 crossin of the crater and realized its not too farfetched.



I am actually glad I stepped into this thread.
im glad realninja and i arent the only one skeptical about this..
glad i talked about this with u.

[321zigzag3]

im glad realninja and i arent the only one skeptical about this..
glad i talked about this with u.

I am not skeptical as I used to be.

To be fair if Top tier ninja are supersonic+

Its just a handful like less than 5% so really it doesn't change that much about it.

And I believe in my personal opinion Gated Gai just reinforces Top tier supersonic+ naruto again.


Well since no one was giving satisfactory answers to each other.

I felt I had to go in. But I really didn't want to. I was hoping Dudemeister would do it or someone else like Miles Edgeworth.

[ByakuganAlex]

its funny how when I tried to debate weightless lee and neji went the same speed cuz of drawn design I was told no, but now people try to use it to prove otherwise. Gai is supersonic in 7 gates.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I'm not saying that they're right.

[ByakuganAlex]

like i have stated since I came here, speed on this forum has been severely hyped. even one piece has been hyped. best indication of speed is zoro's bullet dodge which puts him low supersonic.

[Shikamaru Nara]

He's hypersonic. Are you serious?

[RealNinja]

Can you really count those guns they look like bb guns.

[Invisible Fog]

Let me say something calcs are based on hype because you can't measure speed in manga or anime because:

Manga: It's just pictures
Anime: Not made by the creator himself

SO all calcs are based on hype and while the BG makes it's own rules then if the users decide by their hype calcs that Susanoo arrows are supersonic then that's that.

You can't judge distance in manga so calcs are trash unless feet are involved as in you see an overview of the location and you see the characters feet; their feet are "This size" and you multiply that until you get to the end of the part where you are trying to measure and there you go. Those are the only calcs that really work.

[321zigzag3]

like i have stated since I came here, speed on this forum has been severely hyped. even one piece has been hyped. best indication of speed is zoro's bullet dodge which puts him low supersonic.

Zoro was dodging bullet since early OP times. Times have changed he is much faster now.

Can you really count those guns they look like bb guns.

They shoot bullets what more do you want?



You can't judge distance in manga so calcs are trash unless feet are involved as in you see an overview of the location and you see the characters feet; their feet are "This size" and you multiply that until you get to the end of the part where you are trying to measure and there you go. Those are the only calcs that really work.

Feet is a terrible usage of calculation since the art is not always consistent.

Its much better to try to estimate the distance than that. Even then estimating distance doesn't always work either. It can work sometimes such as Killerbee's running to the nearest hill/mountain.

Also do I have to keep bringing my past post up?

Like I said. Unless the author gives or guns or the manga gives us a time rate. Or some distance its better of not being calculated.

[deidara330]

Time rate is simple in manga. I go by Panel Transition Time, meaning the time it takes for the manga to move from one panel to the other. For Naruto, to figure out the Panel Transition Time, I used his 5 second attack on Pain. I counter the number of panel transitions and did 1 divided by the same number for each second, I got 5 different results ranging from 0.5 to about 0.05. I added them all up and divided by 5 to average it out, and in the end I got 0.2184313 seconds. So this is the most accurate time rate that can be taken from calculations, at least as far as I know.

[colorles]

this thread? meh

go back and read some of Lone Wolf's later posts, thats how i feel

[321zigzag3]

Like I said if you think Gated Lee is supersonic. Then susanoo arrow is by far well in it.

[Invisible Fog]

One thing: How can you calculate the speed of a Susanoo Arrow if the author didn't give us a time rate for it?

[Invisible Fog]

Feet is a terrible usage of calculation since the art is not always consistent.

Its much better to try to estimate the distance than that. Even then estimating distance doesn't always work either. It can work sometimes such as Killerbee's running to the nearest hill/mountain.



Well, you can see by feet that if something is well over supersonic or not. If it's on the brink by the estimation, it's best to keep that calc out of the equation.

[RealNinja]

One thing: How can you calculate the speed of a Susanoo Arrow if the author didn't give us a time rate for it?
You cant without the numbers to have an equation. So itsnot possible to calculate in the first place.

[321zigzag3]

One thing: How can you calculate the speed of a Susanoo Arrow if the author didn't give us a time rate for it?

you don't have to its called generalization.

If you think Gated Lee is supersonic, Susanoo arrow is way within at least supersonic+.

Well, you can see by feet that if something is well over supersonic or not. If it's on the brink by the estimation, it's best to keep that calc out of the equation.

Depends.

For that Killerbee calculation. Zetta estimated the hill distances and Jugo's falling speed. Real life wise 9.8 Meters per second.

You cant without the numbers to have an equation. So itsnot possible to calculate in the first place.

True thats why some people like to estimate and such but really there is a lot of subjectivity in it.

[Nero]

The Fact that the Susano'os arrows Made Sonic booms makes them Supersonic .. Review back the chapter .. And you will see obvious Sonic Booms ..
GOT YA!

[321zigzag3]

The Fact that the Susano'os arrows Made Sonic booms makes them Supersonic .. Review back the chapter .. And you will see obvious Sonic Booms ..
<link removed>

The fact Gated Lee can be argued as supersonic makes susanoo arrow high supersonic automatically.

[RealNinja]

There was no sonic boom on the arrow aimed at Kakashi. I only seen a trail of fire. But it was moving at an incredible speed.

[SimpleGenin]

soo ppl think susanoo's arrow is super sonic just because they see

BOOOOOOM!

in a page? wow

[321zigzag3]

hey several people argue the only way to figure out supersonic attacks are sonic booms and yet when you see that its not always the case.

[Nero]

soo ppl think susanoo's arrow is super sonic just because they see

BOOOOOOM!

in a page? wow

Then why do you think that bullets make a boom sound while fired , Because they break the sound barrier Causing that sound ..

Also if you watched a Supersonic Airshow even online , You hear a loud sound of boom .. Breaking the sound Barrier Causes this sound ..

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________



Fire trail is also a strong evidence that the arrows are supersonic .. Google it up cause I am not writing reason ..

Also i think you need to check the eye doctor because a Sound of Shwoom was made Also There was a boom , Choose what you like ..

[Nero]

This thread need no debate , pleae close this thread , As i noticed a little bit of Flaming ..

[SimpleGenin]

hey several people argue the only way to figure out supersonic attacks are sonic booms and yet when you see that its not always the case.
thats why its more accurate if we just say characters are fast.
when haku was beating up sasuke, he didnt make BOOM sound when he attacked and ppl still believe his supersonic..
and measuring distance of imaginary place is just wrong because any cal we get from data from imaginary place is nothing but guess and predictions.

the only way to even concider a character is supersonic is if kishimoto/character states it. even then its arguable if they are.

[SimpleGenin]

Then why do you think that bullets make a boom sound while fired , Because they break the sound barrier Causing that sound ..

Also if you watched a Supersonic Airshow even online , You hear a loud sound of boom .. Breaking the sound Barrier Causes this sound ..

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________



Fire trail is also a strong evidence that the arrows are supersonic .. Google it up cause I am not writing reason ..

Also i think you need to check the eye doctor because a Sound of Shwoom was made Also There was a boom , Choose what you like ..




shwoom? :lol: lol god help u

[321zigzag3]

thats why its more accurate if we just say characters are fast.
when haku was beating up sasuke, he didnt make BOOM sound when he attacked and ppl still believe his supersonic..
and measuring distance of imaginary place is just wrong because any cal we get from data from imaginary place is nothing but guess and predictions.

the only way to even concider a character is supersonic is if kishimoto/character states it. even then its arguable if they are.

Haku does have some form of speed.

Kishimoto drew 14 speed lines I think and compared to the dropping of one water.

Over here it was accepted as sonic speed.

Even if Gated Gai is the only supersonic characterit requires top tier reaction.

Even Chiyo a high tier ninja reacted to supposedly supersonic Iron Sand Drizzle.

And Raikage made some plausivle supersonic movements.


Why doubt if the author states it?

[Nero]

shwoom? :lol: lol god help u

Now , You are being Sarcastic , There 3 Kinds of people I hate

1- People who bothers my Family and Friends
2- People who underestimate me
3- People who thinks they are funny and Make Jokes about something they don't Know About especially physics ..


And You know You are 2 from 3 types I hate so , Be Careful ..

[SimpleGenin]

Now , You are being Sarcastic , There 3 Kinds of people I hate

1- People who bothers my Family and Friends
2- People who underestimate me
3- People who thinks they are funny and Make Jokes about something they don't Know About especially physics ..


And You know You are 2 from 3 types I hate so , Be Careful ..

im not kidding though. did u find the word "shwoom" in your text book on physics.. lol seriously thats hella funny..

people u hate?.. dude i couldnt care less on the type of ppl u hate.
be careful? haha ur funny..

[321zigzag3]

The susanoo arrow did make a large sound.
Is that supposed to be a boom anyway?

Mind you making a boom is fine yet it can be an artistic visual effect so it must be treated with caution.

[Nero]

im not kidding though. did u find the word "shwoom" in your text book on physics.. lol seriously thats hella funny..

people u hate?.. dude i couldnt care less on the type of ppl u hate.
be careful? haha ur funny..

Shwoom is the sound of the sound Barrier breaking , So That's Physics , apparently you don't know anything about physics ..

I don't care if you care or not , I am just warning you ..

And I dont understand What is Funny in Be Careful , May be there something wrong with y..

I will be the big person and I won't start flaming ..

[RealNinja]

Sarcasm aside the boom that you mention has always been associated with manga for top speed. You cannot calculate the speed because the time in manga cannot be judged. The next scene could be from a sec later to minutes. Manga speed cannot be judged by normal standards.Its up to the creator to label it supersonic once it is label than it is supersonic.

[Nero]

The susanoo arrow did make a large sound.
Is that supposed to be a boom anyway?

Mind you making a boom is fine yet it can be an artistic visual effect so it must be treated with caution.

Sure not an artistic Visual effect , for 2 reasons,The Shwoom Sound is made when an Object is breaking the sound barrier ..
Also from reading many mangas I knew that the Shapes around the word , Means it is supersonic ( Appeared in Bleach , One piece and Marvel [Flash])

[321zigzag3]

Sarcasm aside the boom that you mention has always been associated with manga for top speed. You cannot calculate the speed because the time in manga cannot be judged. The next scene could be from a sec later to minutes. Manga speed cannot be judged by normal standards.Its up to the creator to label it supersonic once it is label than it is supersonic.

It depends how the author portrays it.

Its not that hard to see whether the next panel happens immediately or not or etc.

And really you two you guys wouldn't have this much discussion if Kishi had shown guns.

No one complains as much about bleach.


Calculations aren't always necessary.

[SimpleGenin]

i was never flaming in the first place haha it really be a waste of time to take u seriously.. i mean "shwoom" u gotto be kidding me. lMAO!! the whole be careful thing really gets me scared. haha i might just have to "shwoom" out of the country.. cause of it. hahaha
im sorry its just funny..

hahahaha
ok

umm well my point is.. Susanoo's arrows are very fast but calculating mathematically of just how fast something is just ridiculous in my opinion. kishi never meant for us to actually measure speed..

[Nero]

Sarcasm aside the boom that you mention has always been associated with manga for top speed. You cannot calculate the speed because the time in manga cannot be judged. The next scene could be from a sec later to minutes. Manga speed cannot be judged by normal standards.Its up to the creator to label it supersonic once it is label than it is supersonic.

LOL and WOW ..

You want the creator always to tell The person is supersonic or hypersonic ..

Kishi marked the Arrows with Symbols and a Sonic Boom , to make people know it is Supersonic ..

[321zigzag3]

i was never flaming in the first place haha it really be a waste of time to take u seriously.. i mean "shwoom" u gotto be kidding me. lMAO!! the whole be careful thing really gets me scared. haha i might just have to "shwoom" out of the country.. cause of it. hahaha
im sorry its just funny..

hahahaha
ok

umm well my point is.. Susanoo's arrows are very fast but calculating mathematically of just how fast something is just ridiculous in my opinion. kishi never meant for us to actually measure speed..

Then don't calculate it. Solves your problem.

Just let those who want let them. As long the calculations has the least subjectivity as possible and some good objective basis like Killerbee's speed on the mountain or FRS speed calculation then that will be taken into account and reviewed.


No manga writers expects us thats why there are inconsistencies here and there sometimes.

[Nero]

i

umm well my point is.. Susanoo's arrows are very fast but calculating mathematically of just how fast something is just ridiculous in my opinion. kishi never meant for us to actually measure speed..

Calculations are also assumptions but with great deal of accuracy ..

Also , Kishi or any author never meant to us to make debates around who wins between 2 characters ..

[RealNinja]

LOL and WOW ..

You want the creator always to tell The person is supersonic or hypersonic ..

Kishi marked the Arrows with Symbols and a Sonic Boom , to make people know it is Supersonic ..

Laugh all you want but the truth is there is no real proof that the arrow is supersonic. A boom is used in almost all mangas for speed.

[Nero]

Guys , I think you all tired that Kakashi wins most of fights you debated in because of Kamui new feats of wrapping 2 supersonic arrows ..

So you decided to make thread saying that isn't denying the truth that they are really supersonic , Sonic Booms means above sonic speed Meaning supersonic so please stop Coz that is giving me a headache ..

[SimpleGenin]

No manga writers expects us thats why there are inconsistencies here and there sometimes.
Sometimes? im beting u anything that people's calculation will almost be off the real deal just because its from a manga.. and manga alot of times have alot of "inconsistencies" . for example my impression on how large Konoha keeps changing as i read through the manga

[Nero]

Laugh all you want but the truth is there is no real proof that the arrow is supersonic. A boom is used in almost all mangas for speed.

Please Google Sonic Booms or Search 'Sonic Booms' on Wikipedia ..

[Shino Hatake]

Supersonic- Mach 1.2 to 2.2.

He stooped that easily.

[SimpleGenin]

Guys , I think you all tired that Kakashi wins most of fights you debated in because of Kamui new feats of wrapping 2 supersonic arrows ..

So you decided to make thread saying that isn't denying the truth that they are really supersonic , Sonic Booms means above sonic speed Meaning supersonic so please stop Coz that is giving me a headache ..

ok im not flaming or anything but dude
you really dont have to be in this thread..

[Nero]

Sometimes? im beting u anything that people's calculation will almost be off the real deal just because its from a manga.. and manga alot of times have alot of "inconsistencies" . for example my impression on how large Konoha keeps changing as i read through the manga

Real : Drawn Ratio is your answer ..

[Nero]

ok im not flaming or anything but dude
you really dont have to be in this thread..

And thats suppose to mean what ??

[321zigzag3]

Sometimes? im beting u anything that people's calculation will almost be off the real deal just because its from a manga.. and manga alot of times have alot of "inconsistencies" . for example my impression on how large Konoha keeps changing as i read through the manga

Thats why you generalize.

Which is why many calculating folks in the OBD generalize a lot too.
Mind you I don't accept most calculations but I have taken a liking for very few for Naruto.

And I will say this again if this is about Naruto we should add Bleach in because it has almost no quantifiable speeds. In fact it has no time rate at all either.

Kishimoto is actually better than Kubo in that department.



you think thats bad? Look at gamabunta.

[RealNinja]

Guys , I think you all tired that Kakashi wins most of fights you debated in because of Kamui new feats of wrapping 2 supersonic arrows ..

So you decided to make thread saying that isn't denying the truth that they are really supersonic , Sonic Booms means above sonic speed Meaning supersonic so please stop Coz that is giving me a headache ..

Not realy I just made because I was bored and knew I was right. Kaumi keeps it interesting.

[SimpleGenin]

you think thats bad? Look at gamabunta.
i know huh!? haha its good to know i aint the only person that see's that

[SimpleGenin]

And thats suppose to mean what ??
you were saying something about a headache because of this thread right? then go to another thread or go walk around or something .. u dont have to be here

[321zigzag3]

Not realy I just made because I was bored and knew I was right. Kaumi keeps it interesting.

Do you think Gated Lee is supersonic Yay or Nay?

i know huh!? haha its good to know i aint the only person that see's that

Oh many has especially in the OBD.

Mind you speed is controversial. The whole naruto being above sound speed had been argued for few years there.

Then again OBD is biased against Naruto and Bleach and some series they don't like. The majority for example. Not as much now but in the past it was worse.

[Nero]

Not realy I just made because I was bored and knew I was right. Kaumi keeps it interesting.

The thing is you are not right ..

[321zigzag3]

LOL and WOW ..

You want the creator always to tell The person is supersonic or hypersonic ..

Kishi marked the Arrows with Symbols and a Sonic Boom , to make people know it is Supersonic ..


Regardless about the booms always beng sonic booms.

Nero has a point. The creator could care less in general how fast the character is sometimes. You don't have to wait on him to say it.


Bleach being prime example.

[RealNinja]

Do you think Gated Lee is supersonic Yay or Nay?



Oh many has especially in the OBD.

Mind you speed is controversial. The whole naruto being above sound speed had been argued for few years there.

Then again OBD is biased against Naruto and Bleach and some series they don't like. The majority for example. Not as much now but in the past it was worse.
It has all the sign for it so I say yay. But that arrow that Kakashi used did not have the signs. The one used on Danzo did though. Damn should have plead the fifth.

[321zigzag3]

It has all the sign for it so I say yay. But that arrow that Kakashi used did not have the signs. The one used on Danzo did though. Damn should have plead the fifth.

If you think Gated Lee is supersonic then the arrow is in now high end supersonic.

Other wise Kishimoto is contradicting himself.

Like I said manga writers don't always draw booms.


And this is a children's manga for God's sakes.

[SimpleGenin]

bleach and naruto are different, u also have to take that in mind

bleach started out with much more power then naruto series
right now there are more chapters on naruto then bleach but almost everyone in bleach is godly compared to the naruto series.

bleach is closer to dbz standards
and naruto is closer to hhmm saber marrionete standards.

[RealNinja]

If you think Gated Lee is supersonic then the arrow is in now high end supersonic.

Other wise Kishimoto is contradicting himself.

Like I said manga writers don't always draw booms.


And this is a children's manga for God's sakes.

Thats what I am saying. I am probably geting death threats right now cause of this thread. I was bored when I made this thread. But I also had the focus of dowgrading Kaumi. People had it too hyped up. You have to admit that.

[321zigzag3]

bleach and naruto are different, u also have to take that in mind

bleach started out with much more power then naruto series
right now there are more chapters on naruto then bleach but almost everyone in bleach is godly compared to the naruto series.

bleach is closer to dbz standards
and naruto is closer to hhmm saber marrionete standards.

Thats irrelevent in the sense that it has actual no supersonic speed quanitfied.

Godly? You know Raditz is fodder of DBZ yet he can take out majority of the Bleach if not he can solo.

Also its the bleach high to top tiers that are threats like captains to espada. VC Captains, most of them are jokes.

The funny thing is Naruto actually has the best destructive feat compared bewteen both while Bleach hsa more busting folk.

Thats what I am saying. I am probably geting death threats right now cause of this thread. I was bored when I made this thread. But I also had the focus of dowgrading Kaumi. People had it too hyped up. You have to admit that.

To be fair I can see why. Kamui becomes a threat when Kakashi is in bloodlust. But in character he is not so eager offensively.

I am not blaming you by the way.

[Nero]

Thats what I am saying. I am probably geting death threats right now cause of this thread. I was bored when I made this thread. But I also had the focus of dowgrading Kaumi. People had it too hyped up. You have to admit that.

You can't downgrade Kamui , Just that because it is not overestimated ..

No it is not hyped up , That is the place where it should be ..

[RealNinja]

You can't downgrade Kamui , Just that because it is not overestimated ..

No it is not hyped up , That is the place where it should be ..

It is overhyped it is fast but I have seen substitution used on the dead end of an attack that is ignored. To say that it is faster than every characters reaction shows that it needs to be taken down a notch.

[321zigzag3]

I say most but not all.

[RealNinja]

I say most but not all.
Now that is a statement I can agree too. Well I am out for the day time to get smashed.

[colorles]

I say most but not all.

elaborate....i kinda doubt any character in Narutoverse can move faster than Kakashi's sharingan can see them (mind you Kakashi's sharingan is superior to Sasuke's and even Itachi's (and heck, Tobi's too) in regards to reactions and tracking fast objects, also Kakashi has shown no symptoms of blindness)

[321zigzag3]

Raikage and Minato. but whatever really. Take it up to Real Ninja.

[RealNinja]

Dont take up to realninja because RealNinja dont give a :p:p:p:p anymore its whatever you say it is.

[colorles]

Raikage and Minato. but whatever really. Take it up to Real Ninja.

Raikage is a maybe, however Kakashi's sharingan is>>>>Sasuke's in regards to reactions and tracking fast moving objects, so its not certain

Minato gets his head kamui'd off either bofore he can even lift a kunai, or while or after he teleporters with flying thunder god, either way, Minato gets his head warped off

keep in mind as long as Kakashi's sharingan, which has bar none highest reactions and visual tracking in the entire verse, can see his opponents head, he can instantly warp it off

[321zigzag3]

Is Kakashi one of your favorite characters?

[colorles]

maybe, maybe not

however Minato gets warped regardless, keep in mind Kamui>>>>>>Tobi's warping tech in regards to attacking long rang, Tobi's is just better for defense overall

as i said, Kakashi's sharingan has faster reactions than Sasuke's, as well as the other sharingan users, and has shown no signs of blindness. Kakashi could track raikage just fine; actually even without kamui the fight would still be interesting, although raikage would jus be too difficult to kill for good without kamui

[321zigzag3]

Hirashin.

[colorles]

kamui>>>>>>Hirashin.

'yeah'

[321zigzag3]

Depends.

[ByakuganAlex]

where has it shown zoro dodging bullets before his encounter with celestial dragon? where is your proof zoro is hypersonic?

[321zigzag3]

where has it shown zoro dodging bullets before his encounter with celestial dragon? where is your proof zoro is hypersonic?

I forget but I swear Zoro evaded bullets back in Alabasta as well.


Its not me but the argument that he is hypersonic is based on feat stacking which is flawed itself.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Back in Arabasta, Zoro bullet timed. This was when he was basically fodder compared to now and when he wasn't nearly so competent.

Zoro has shown many feats that casually surpass the bullet timing later in the series and there have been hundreds of chapters since that. CP9 users are generally considered to be at least supersonic, if not hypersonic, through Soru and Zoro was fighting Kaku, who was the second most skilled CP9 member. Through Asura, Zoro roflblitzed and curbstomped Kaku with massive ease in one go.

I would like to note that Zoro has since improved from then and is much stronger now.

So the belief that Zoro is not at LEAST low supersonic is absolutely foolish from the feats we have been shown.

Until I am shown otherwise, that's my opinion on Zoro's speed.

And I didn't come to this thread during the whole Kamui ordeal because I was out of town for a while.

[RealNinja]

Nah manga speed cannot be classsified. The classfications people come up with are only theory all them can never because the timing of the people and weapons are completely different. You can catergorize them but they wont be exactly right.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Nah manga speed cannot be classsified. The classfications people come up with are only theory all them can never because the timing of the people and weapons are completely different. You can catergorize them but they wont be exactly right.

It all depends on how you do it.

You say that there's no way to judge it, but while it's hard, there are a few tidbits that can give a sort of idea about speed and the like. Author statements, character statements, and feats can sort of give an idea. The first two are not always accurate, but it all really depends on the situation.

However, whether you choose to accept them or not is an entirely different issue.

[RealNinja]

Thats true but that comesback to it being a theory never 100%. As long as it is disputed it cant really be called an absolute truth. Thats why you should keep it simple cause alot of people are going to ignore the hell out of it.

[321zigzag3]

Thats true but that comesback to it being a theory never 100%. As long as it is disputed it cant really be called an absolute truth. Thats why you should keep it simple cause alot of people are going to ignore the hell out of it.

In other words saying he is a bullet timer or possess bullet time reactions is much simpler than calculating.

Calculations are just for the fan's sake.

Because Author's Intent isn't always clear and can be vague and also contradicts the manga showing.

[gama-sennin]

In other words saying he is a bullet timer or possess bullet time reactions is much simpler than calculating.

Calculations are just for the fan's sake.

Because Author's Intent isn't always clear and can be vague and also contradicts the manga showing.

Agreed.

Author just wants to say that a particular character can dodge bullets. He/she doesn't care to state it in mach number. But when there are two characters that can do the same stuff, it becomes important to do some clacs and find out the better one.

[321zigzag3]

Agreed.

Author just wants to say that a particular character can dodge bullets. He/she doesn't care to state it in mach number. But when there are two characters that can do the same stuff, it becomes important to do some clacs and find out the better one.

Since Authors don't care and never intended for this all inter fictional debates we actually violated the author's intent somewhat at least.

So sometimes just trying to interpret the manga showing is sometimes better.

[ByakuganAlex]

can someone show me a manga page of him doing that or any time prior to the celestial dragon thing