Tsunade vs Wave Arc Kakashi

[Phoenix Wright]

No restrictions, no knowledge, in character.

Who wins?

[RealNinja]

Tsunade hits him with nerve scrambling jutsu sashes him he dies.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Tsunade hits him with nerve scrambling jutsu sashes him he dies.
Kakashi, won't let that happen, with his Sharingan he can still avoid it.


But Katsuyu kills Kakashi.

[RealNinja]

If thats the case he would run out of stamina fighting Tsunade if you remember back then he could not use the regular sharigan without wrecking his body.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

If you ignore the fact that it was PnJ, that he was managing to fight successfully in a lengthened battle, and that his main priority was protecting his students, not wiping the floor with Zabuza.

But yeah, Katsuyu crushes.

[Nyruss]

Kakashi Raikiri's her head off before she can summon Katsuyu.

[Shika-fiend]

At this point, Tsunade would Katsuyu stomp. Sorry Kakashi.

[RealNinja]

Kakashi Raikiri's her head off before she can summon Katsuyu.
Tsunade evades kakashi Raikiri. Now he is realy winded she grabs him and smash his face with a fist.

[Nyruss]

1: Prove she's fast enough to evade it.
2: Prove that the use of one Raikiri will cause Kakashi to become winded.
3: Prove she's fast enough to grab him.

[Phoenix Wright]

Kakashi Raikiri's her head off before she can summon Katsuyu.
And how would he manage to do that? When has he ever shown the speed or power during wave arc to blitz a Sannin - even Tsunade - before she summons Katsuyu, or does anything for that matter?

He in no way has shown anything that can counter Tsunade, Katsuyu or not.

He said himself he can only make about 2 Chidori's per day until he's out of chakra, and that was after the wave arc by a lot. End of part 1's Naruto matched Sasuke's Chidori who >>>>>>>>>>>> Wave Arc Kakashi's, and Haku was still alive for some time after he was Chidori'd to the head. Even Haku had time to react to it and get there in time, you're saying Tsunade couldn't?

Adding onto that fact, Orochimaru admitted that if Tsunade punched him again he'd have been dead; provided she hadn't punched him harder in the first place.

That's all for now.

Damn Tsunade hate in the BG is really surprising lately, especially from you.

[RealNinja]

And how would he manage to do that? When has he ever shown the speed or power during wave arc to blitz a Sannin - even Tsunade - before she summons Katsuyu, or does anything for that matter?

He in no way has shown anything that can counter Tsunade, Katsuyu or not.

He said himself he can only make about 2 Chidori's per day until he's out of chakra, and that was after the wave arc by a lot. End of part 1's Naruto matched Sasuke's Chidori who >>>>>>>>>>>> Wave Arc Kakashi's, and Haku was still alive for some time after he was Chidori'd to the head. Even Haku had time to react to it and get there in time, you're saying Tsunade couldn't?

Adding onto that fact, Orochimaru admitted that if Tsunade punched him again he'd have been dead; provided she hadn't punched him harder in the first place.

That's all for now.

Damn Tsunade hate in the BG is really surprising lately, especially from you.
Thank you the Tsunade hate is so bad they put her on the level of Sakura and Ino. Thats pretty funny.

[Nyruss]

So Tsunade is faster than Kakashi simply by virtue of being a Sannin?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k38/anaheyla/lol.png?t=1277005473


Between you and RealNinja you've managed to construct an impenetrable wall of wank. I see no point in continuing to debate this with people who can't accept that Tsunade sucks.

[RealNinja]

No she is faster because she was able to keep up with Orochimarus movements who is definetly faster than Kakashi.

[Phoenix Wright]

So Tsunade is faster than Kakashi simply by vritue of being a Sannin?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k38/anaheyla/lol.png?t=1277005473


Between you and RealNinja you've managed to construct an impenetrable wall of wank. I see no point in continuing to debate this with people who can't accept that Tsunade sucks.

Maybe its because you don't have the ability to counter. Why not do so more often rather than consistently accusing your opponent of wanking.

I never once said because she's a Sannin she's faster, never once. I knew you'd mention it although I made sure not to make a mistake in that general area of my post.

I'll just go ahead and say the same that I'll not continue debating for your Tsunade hate is by far too much and you're clearly underrating her.

Kakashi is one of my favorite characters but in no way would Wave Arc Kakashi win against Tsunade. And you're going to ignore these details like base sharingan tires Kakashi out as well?

I've never really understood this: Why do you hate Tsunade so much in the first place?

Really I thank you much for your intelligent debate because I can see that was very well written and thought out.

[RealNinja]

Maybe its because you don't have the ability to counter. Why not do so more often rather than consistently accusing your opponent of wanking.

I never once said because she's a Sannin she's faster, never once. I knew you'd mention it although I made sure not to make a mistake in that general area of my post.

I'll just go ahead and say the same that I'll not continue debating for your Tsunade hate is by far too much and you're clearly underrating her.

Kakashi is one of my favorite characters but in no way would Wave Arc Kakashi win against Tsunade. And you're going to ignore these details like base sharingan tires Kakashi out as well?

I've never really understood this: Why do you hate Tsunade so much in the first place?

Really I thank you much for your intelligent debate because I can see that was very well written and thought out.
I guess you are wanking too.lol

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

@Phoenix:

Zabuza was estimated to move at Sonic, last I recall. Seeing as that Kakashi was evenly matched with him, then it means he could keep up with so. Meanwhile, Tsunade isn't really a speedster, and I doubt that she moves fast enough to blitz someone able to keep up with Sonic speedsters.

Rank means nothing, seeing as that Kakashi is considered stronger than Tsunade, who is a Kage while possessing much more fame.

I believe it was four Raikiris. Also, Haku was struck on the chest/upper stomach, not head.

[Phoenix Wright]

@Phoenix:

Zabuza was estimated to move at Sonic, last I recall. Seeing as that Kakashi was evenly matched with him, then it means he could keep up with so. Meanwhile, Tsunade isn't really a speedster, and I doubt that she moves fast enough to blitz someone able to keep up with Sonic speedsters.

Rank means nothing, seeing as that Kakashi is considered stronger than Tsunade, who is a Kage while possessing much more fame.

I believe it was four Raikiris. Also, Haku was struck on the chest/upper stomach, not head.
And where are these speed feats rather than making baseless claims on the speed? Either way Tsunade's power alone and healing abilities and the like should do the trick.

And you say it as well. Where in the hell did I note that because she was a Sannin she won?

Chapter 30 Page 16. He was directly hit in the heart, and he still was alive for some time. Now I don't know what's worse, face or heart.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

MVBG says it. Also some other feats throughout his fight with Kakashi.

You said that Wave Arc Kakashi could in no way match Tsunade, a Sannin, in terms of power or speed. That led me to assume that you were using her rank as a way for her to win.

Hmm, always thought it was four, but I'll take your word for it.

You said head earlier, which means autokill. So yeah, being struck in the head is definitely worse than in the heart. And yes, Haku was still alive afterwards briefly, but he couldn't move. So if said scenario occupied to Tsunade, then kunai to the head/chest.

[RealNinja]

I dont understand why here evasion skills are being ignored even if Kakashi is faster than her she trained her evasive skills to the point where she can avoid attacks from people like Kakashi. Like Kabuto and Orochimaru both of their speed levels were top class during that part of Naruto.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Kabuto and Oro's feats during that time suggested they were Sonic speed or so. Also, what attacks had she dodged from them?

[RealNinja]

She dodged basic one on one close combat which full uses their speed and countered.

[Phoenix Wright]

MVBG says it. Also some other feats throughout his fight with Kakashi.

You said that Wave Arc Kakashi could in no way match Tsunade, a Sannin, in terms of power or speed. That led me to assume that you were using her rank as a way for her to win.

Hmm, always thought it was four, but I'll take your word for it.

You said head earlier, which means autokill. So yeah, being struck in the head is definitely worse than in the heart. And yes, Haku was still alive afterwards briefly, but he couldn't move. So if said scenario occupied to Tsunade, then kunai to the head/chest.
People rely way too heavily on the MVBG. It said Kakuzu was class 50. Can you give any others like page numbers as an example?

No, I said, he couldn't match the speed of a Sannin, even being Tsunade, all who are very fast. It's more or less three people than a rank.

Yeah it was, but two more don't really make a difference, I was thinking of Sasuke.

How so? if you have no heart blood can't circulate therefore you die. Haku was alive for quite some time actually. Plus they're in character, Tsunade can heal, and Kakashi never really has shown the viciousness to go straight for the head or the like.

Sorry for the late reply if there are more posts I'll counter those too.

[SimpleGenin]

Wave Arc Kakashi really cant handle Katsuyu.
and even if Tsunade gets hit by something like lightning blade, i doubt that it could instantly kill her, seeing that tsunade handled much more beating from Orochimaru.
basically i see it like this, if Kakashi charges with lightning blade and Tsunade charges with a full power punch, who would be more damaged?

[colorles]

raikiri to the nads, the end

[J-Sun Tasogare]

raikiri to the nads, the end
Katsuyu to the face GG*

[colorles]

Tsunade cant evade raikiri

[Nyruss]

Tsunade doesn't have nads.

[colorles]

Tsunade doesn't have nads.

no kidding, she still dies

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Tsunade cant evade raikiri
Apparently she can't kick the ground before Kakashi hits her causing a shockwabe making him trip up.

[colorles]

raikiri kills Tsunade, and then of course Kakashi has sharingan genjutsu (relatively low level compare to even Sasuke let alone Itachi in genjutsu, but its still formadable againts all non sharingan users)

[Phoenix Wright]

Kakashi never really has shown the ability to hit a moving target with Raikiri. He got Kakuzu, but that isn't the Kakashi we're talking about, plus it was a sneak attack.

Haku moved into the raikiri that was being used then, and Zabuza was restrained by the dogs meanwhile, had Haku not have done so anyway.

He also said that it wasn't mean for curving or moving, and Tsunade wouldn't have much trouble doing so seeing as its just wave arc Kakashi who like I said before gets warn out pretty quickly with just regular Sharingan.

He never was one to fight prolonged battles, but Tsunade has Kakuzu who can heal and she can stay in pretty long fights.

Katsuyu was casually healing all of the Leaf Village, people who were by far near death woke up like they had just taken a Senzu Bean countless times.

[colorles]

Kakashi never really has shown the ability to hit a moving target with Raikiri. He got Kakuzu, but that isn't the Kakashi we're talking about, plus it was a sneak attack.

Haku moved into the raikiri that was being used then, and Zabuza was restrained by the dogs meanwhile, had Haku not have done so anyway.

He also said that it wasn't mean for curving or moving, and Tsunade wouldn't have much trouble doing so seeing as its just wave arc Kakashi who like I said before gets warn out pretty quickly with just regular Sharingan.

He never was one to fight prolonged battles, but Tsunade has Kakuzu who can heal and she can stay in pretty long fights.

Katsuyu was casually healing all of the Leaf Village, people who were by far near death woke up like they had just taken a Senzu Bean countless times.

thats great and all, but please provide:

1) a respectable speed feat of two from Tsunade that says she can evade raikiri (from wave arc, not later on)

2)genjutsu defense (i know kakashi's genjutsu is not even as good as Sasuke's let alone itachi's, but its still elite and effective against lesser sharingan users and all normal non sharingan users, not counting peoples like A or Killer Bee)

[Phoenix Wright]

thats great and all, but please provide:

1) a respectable speed feat of two from Tsunade that says she can evade raikiri (from wave arc, not later on)

2)genjutsu defense (i know kakashi's genjutsu is not even as good as Sasuke's let alone itachi's, but its still elite and effective against lesser sharingan users and all normal non sharingan users, not counting peoples like A or Killer Bee)
Why haven't you provided any feats showing that Kakashi's fast enough to do so or something that contradicts her being able to dodge it?

Really like I said he hasn't been able to hit anything that's moving other than a sneak attack but its a totally different Kakashi and like I said it was a sneak attack.

Kakashi's genjutsu wouldn't do much, provided it barely did anything to Sakura. What other genjutsu does he have anyway?

It won't do anything else shall it work, but it wont because she has Katsuyu to get her out.

[Nyruss]

he hasn't been able to hit anything that's moving Tsunade has never killed anyone. Therefore she is incapable of doing so. Kakashi wins because he can kill people and Tsunade can't. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

[colorles]

Why haven't you provided any feats showing that Kakashi's fast enough to do so or something that contradicts her being able to dodge it?

Really like I said he hasn't been able to hit anything that's moving other than a sneak attack but its a totally different Kakashi and like I said it was a sneak attack.

Kakashi's genjutsu wouldn't do much, provided it barely did anything to Sakura. What other genjutsu does he have anyway?

It won't do anything else shall it work, but it wont because she has Katsuyu to get her out.

in chapter 455 i believe it was, Kakashi used a fairly high level genjutsu to instantly parilyze two anbu jus by flashing his sharingan, however thats a later feat

all i'm asking for is ONE respectable speed feat from tsunade that suggests she can evade raikiri

[SimpleGenin]

in chapter 455 i believe it was, Kakashi used a fairly high level genjutsu to instantly parilyze two anbu jus by flashing his sharingan, however thats a later feat

all i'm asking for is ONE respectable speed feat from tsunade that suggests she can evade raikiri
how about her catching manda while she had gamabunta's sword in her hand. manda is pretty fast even for a summon..

[Nyruss]

No time frame.

[Phoenix Wright]

in chapter 455 i believe it was, Kakashi used a fairly high level genjutsu to instantly parilyze two anbu jus by flashing his sharingan, however thats a later feat

all i'm asking for is ONE respectable speed feat from tsunade that suggests she can evade raikiri
Yes, it is, therefore not a viable point of debate in this fight.

And all I'm asking for is one feat contradicting her ability to do so.

Tsunade has never killed anyone. Therefore she is incapable of doing so. Kakashi wins because he can kill people and Tsunade can't. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Who has Kakashi killed that wasn't trying to be killed?

[Nyruss]

Asura Pain. I think that's the one. The cyborg.

And it really doesn't matter if they were trying or not. The fact is that Kakashi has killed people and Tsunade hasn't. Sure Haku moved in front of Kakashi's attack, but Haku the speed of light, so unless you're going to argue that Tsunade is faster than light, there's nothing there.

[Phoenix Wright]

Asura Pain. I think that's the one. The cyborg.

And it really doesn't matter if they were trying or not. The fact is that Kakashi has killed people and Tsunade hasn't. Sure Haku moved in front of Kakashi's attack, but Haku the speed of light, so unless you're going to argue that Tsunade is faster than light, there's nothing there.
It got back up and was completely fine later before Naruto killed it for good. Plus thats not the Kakashi we're talking about.

Oh and if you're talking about her almost dying, Asura Pain still>>>>>Wave Arc Kakashi, and Tsunade was exhausted after healing the entire village with Katsuyu.

Haku isn't lightspeed. I'll get scans if your Haku Wank escalates further :LOS

[Nyruss]

It got healed by the other Pain. It was totaly scrapped when Kakashi took it out.

Haku is lightspeed according to the databooks. Are you going to argue with Kishimoto's own words? http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/chmp.png

[Phoenix Wright]

And even it was still alive enough to shoot another missile. Even so, like I said this is a completely different Kakashi.

If Kishi's own words are retarded, then yes. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/chmp.png

[RealNinja]

lol You actualy read those data books most of those books contradict the show and manga. For the simple reason Kishi changes his mind alot alters the story.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

People rely way too heavily on the MVBG. It said Kakuzu was class 50. Can you give any others like page numbers as an example?

No, I said, he couldn't match the speed of a Sannin, even being Tsunade, all who are very fast. It's more or less three people than a rank.

Yeah it was, but two more don't really make a difference, I was thinking of Sasuke.

How so? if you have no heart blood can't circulate therefore you die. Haku was alive for quite some time actually. Plus they're in character, Tsunade can heal, and Kakashi never really has shown the viciousness to go straight for the head or the like.

Sorry for the late reply if there are more posts I'll counter those too.
I believe that's called powerscaling. Also, I unfortunately can't due to not having access to a PC.

Tsunade is the slowest and weakest.

It means two more shots to kill, which can mean a big difference.

Then for the heart. It still ultimately kills her.


how about her catching manda while she had gamabunta's sword in her hand. manda is pretty fast even for a summon..
Manda definitely does not move at Sonic speed.

[SimpleGenin]

Manda definitely does not move at Sonic speed.

i dont know much about this supersonic,sonic things but too be honest, i dont believe that.. supersonic sonic? thats crazy.. some can say a character is pretty fast but saying someone is sonic, its totally ridiculous. if we go with this whole sonic things.. its virtually impossible to even hit a character that fast.it may seem that way but consider his size.. think about a character the size of orochimaru that moves as fast as manda.. people would naturally say a character that moves that fast would be very fast haha if that makes sense. the fact that tsunade countered manda at that phase with a a huge sword in her hand is a pretty incredibale feats

[Phoenix Wright]

I believe that's called powerscaling. Also, I unfortunately can't due to not having access to a PC.
Uh, no, it's called wanting to get the profile done. I was there, in the AIM chat when we put it like that.

Tsunade is the slowest and weakest.

I said Sannin- even Tsunade, meaning, being the slowest and weakest. Maybe Jiraiya>Her in Physical power, but definitely not Orochimaru though. In other things, yes. Physical power, no.

It means two more shots to kill, which can mean a big difference.

Not if Katsuyu can just heal her or she just gets out of the way of it. Like Kakashi said its a straight jutsu not one to move around much. Plus one hit from Tsunade and Kakashi's done for. Orochimaru has greater durability by far, plus its only wave arc Kakashi who as I've said multiple times gets worn out from the regular sharingan. And didn't I say Kakashi said that way after? He can only use as many Chidori as he had shown in the fight, as its been confirmed he has a limited amount, plus he didn't use all four in his fight.

Then for the heart. It still ultimately kills her.

And Haku surviving it for quite some time obviously means nothing.
1) Zabuza is a lot taller than Haku if he'd have hit him instead, it'd have hit below the heart.
2) Tsunade can heal.
10char.

[Nyruss]

Katsuyu can't heal squat. She was chanelling Tsunade's healing abilities during Pain's invasion. Through a special seal Tsunade was sitting on unless I'm mistaken.

[Phoenix Wright]

And proof she can't heal herself otherwise? Last I recall she didn't fight with Kabuto and Orochimaru without healing but if you say so, she has some pretty good durability..

She was fighting with Kabuto, and Kakashi was scared of him, and even then, its a completely different Kakashi.

Katsuyu can't heal squat? Tsunade just needed the seal to distribute Katsuyu throughout the village iirc, its not like she added to its healing power, and even if she did, its Tsunade's power.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

That's called laziness then.

Dog Summonings to trap her like it did with Zabuza. Kakashi however can maintain his Sharingan for a somewhatn-lengthened battle, which is enough for him to deal Tsunade. Of course he has a limited amount, seeing as that four is a limited amount. If he can't use four Raikiris, then why even mention the number? If he was bluffing, he would've blurted out a much higher digit.

And like I said, he was so weak that he couldn't move afterwards. So kunai to the heart/head/throat, or another Raikiris. Still would have considerably damaged him. Also, another Raikiri before Tsunade could heal.

Kakashi wins unless Tsunade manages to summon Katsuyu.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

That's called laziness then.

Dog Summonings to trap her like it did with Zabuza. Kakashi however can maintain his Sharingan for a somewhatn-lengthened battle, which is enough for him to deal Tsunade. Of course he has a limited amount, seeing as that four is a limited amount. If he can't use four Raikiris, then why even mention the number? If he was bluffing, he would've blurted out a much higher digit.

And like I said, he was so weak that he couldn't move afterwards. So kunai to the heart/head/throat, or another Raikiris. Still would have considerably damaged him. Also, another Raikiri before Tsunade could heal.

Kakashi wins unless Tsunade manages to summon Katsuyu.

[Nyruss]

And proof she can't heal herself otherwise?


Without that Mitotic whasname, she has to rely on healing palm whatchajigger, which takes five years to heal a few severed muscles, never mind a totally destroyed heart + massive electrical shock.

She was fighting with Kabuto, and Kakashi was scared of him, and even then, its a completely different Kakashi.


Kabuto outright admitted he was holding back. And he was still kicking the crap out of her.

Katsuyu can't heal squat? That's what I said.

Tsunade just needed the seal to distribute Katsuyu throughout the village iirc Slug Great Division. It's one of Katsuyu's abilities. The seal was to channel Tsunade's healing powers through Katsuyu. Katsuyu has none of her own.

its not like she added to its healing power She did add to its healing power. It went from 0 to whatever is necessary to protect Konoha from CST.

[SimpleGenin]

due to lack of feats im going to go with kakashi.
we have yet seen tsunade breakthrough a genjutsu.. therefore assuming she's caught in one, she losses just cause she hasnt shown the feats.. also people agree that kakashi is faster..

i love tsunade though.. i like what she stands for..

[Phoenix Wright]

due to lack of feats im going to go with kakashi.
we have yet seen tsunade breakthrough a genjutsu.. therefore assuming she's caught in one, she losses just cause she hasnt shown the feats.. also people agree that kakashi is faster..

i love tsunade though.. i like what she stands for..
Sakura hasn't shown any genjutsu feats either and the only one he's shown up to that point was used on her and she was fine.

I hate Tsunade though, and she still wins.
I like Kakashi, doesn't change the fact he loses.
Without that Mitotic whasname, she has to rely on healing palm whatchajigger, which takes five years to heal a few severed muscles, never mind a totally destroyed heart + massive electrical shock.

Tru stori.

Kabuto outright admitted he was holding back. And he was still kicking the crap out of her.

It doesn't change the fact that Kakashi was scared of him as well.

Slug Great Division. It's one of Katsuyu's abilities. The seal was to channel Tsunade's healing powers through Katsuyu. Katsuyu has none of her own.

But she does have acid slime, especially if it covers a large enough area. Plus Tsunade can distribute it through Katsuyu instead of using Healing Palm Whatchajigger and the like.

She did add to its healing power. It went from 0 to whatever is necessary to protect Konoha from CST.

That's what I said after, even so, it'd be Tsunade's power accomplishing what it had accomplished.

That's called laziness then.

But its not called powerscaling therefore my people rely too heavily on the MVBG statement still stands.

Dog Summonings to trap her like it did with Zabuza. Kakashi however can maintain his Sharingan for a somewhatn-lengthened battle, which is enough for him to deal Tsunade. Of course he has a limited amount, seeing as that four is a limited amount. If he can't use four Raikiris, then why even mention the number? If he was bluffing, he would've blurted out a much higher digit.

Zabuza had his eyes shut in the mist, was tired out, and couldn't see. If Tsunade doesn't have her eyes shut for whatever reason she should be able to take them out or stay away. He said "They're used specifically for finding an opponent" He doesn't really use them in combat, and he's in character here.

What I said, was that he hadn't even shown the power to use four at the time, maybe later on he could, but it's doubtful he could during the wave arc. Besides she'd be able to heal and I doubt he'd spam Raikiri over and over.

He said he's not too good with prolonged battles, as I mentioned as well. Sharingan wore him out extremely quickly and he barely used Raikiri if at all in their first encounter with Zabuza. Just from having regular Sharingan on, he was put in bed, and he passed out directly after the fight.

And like I said, he was so weak that he couldn't move afterwards. So kunai to the heart/head/throat, or another Raikiris. Still would have considerably damaged him. Also, another Raikiri before Tsunade could heal.

Like I said above, in character so I doubt Kakashi would go on spamming Raikiri, and it won't be long before he starts getting tired especially after he uses Raikiri once, provided he can hit her or not.

Kakashi wins unless Tsunade manages to summon Katsuyu.

Then it's obvious Tsunade wins. Since when would it be a problem in order to summon Katsuyu? All that's required is biting your finger and putting your hand on the ground.

-Acid Slime and Katsuyu herself is just more overkill considering she's in the fight too, as well as whatever she'll do while Kakashi is outnumbered.

-Tsunade has mitotic regeneration and can heal from whatever Kakashi throws at her. Being in character will surely change the fact that Kakashi will spam Raikiri, and even if he does, he won't be able to hit her.

-If he is able to hit her she heals, and if he tries spamming it he'll run out of chakra quickly, provided he doesn't get worn out with just one (or two shall he miss the first time).

-Tsunade is also in the fight along with Katsuyu who may or may not have crushed/acid slimed Kakashi in the first place. Her major strength feats like catching Gamabunta's blade and the like prove well also.

-Kakashi gradually loses stamina while Sharingan's out. And the Wave Arc Kakashi really isn't the master of taijutsu especially without sharingan.

-Lastly (for now), Tsunade can use Katsuyu as cover as well.

Also, wasn't it stated that Tsunade had the best chakra control of the Sannin or something? I'm not gonna say anything about it I was just wondering.

[gama-sennin]

Asura Pain. I think that's the one. The cyborg.


I dont remember reading anything about Asura path in wave arc...must have missed it.



And it really doesn't matter if they were trying or not. The fact is that Kakashi has killed people and Tsunade hasn't. In wave arc kakashi has not killed anyone other than haku. Tsunade dealt a blow to Oro and even Jiraiya thought that Oro wont survive and that counts as killing someone because any other ninja would have died. Kakashi doesn't have Oro's durability.


Sure Haku moved in front of Kakashi's attack, but Haku the speed of light, so unless you're going to argue that Tsunade is faster than light, there's nothing there.

Haku light speed?.......wank


It got healed by the other Pain. It was totaly scrapped when Kakashi took it out.

Haku is lightspeed according to the databooks. Are you going to argue with Kishimoto's own words? http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/chmp.png

So are we using databooks now? Unless you are joking that is totally hypocrite of you. In that neji vs sasuke thread you refused to accept databook stats as a proof and so did everyone else, including me.

due to lack of feats im going to go with kakashi.
we have yet seen tsunade breakthrough a genjutsu.. therefore assuming she's caught in one, she losses just cause she hasnt shown the feats.. also people agree that kakashi is faster..

i love tsunade though.. i like what she stands for..

Tsuande was fast enough to stab manda with Bunta's sword and it is a well known fact that a snake is at its fastest immediately after shedding its skin and/or in attack mode. Manda satisfies both the conditions.

Tsunade tanked repeated, supposedly fatal, stabbings by Kusanagi and unless someone proves that Raikiri causes more damage than kusnagi(which damaged even diamond hard enma), Tsunade tanks repeated raikiris as well.

[321zigzag3]

Dudemeister doesn't use databooks he was merely making a point of kishimoto's inconsistency.


Also this thread.

How in God's name does Wave Arc Kakashi win this?

[Lady Tsunade]

BL Tsunade summons Katsuyu. GG Kakashi

[Shikamaru Nara]

Dudemeister doesn't use databooks he was merely making a point of kishimoto's inconsistency.


Also this thread.

How in God's name does Wave Arc Kakashi win this?

Maybe with Shadow Clones. /joke http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

[321zigzag3]

BL Tsunade summons Katsuyu. GG Kakashi

Wave Arc Kakashi has nothing against that.

Maybe with Shadow Clones. /joke http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

That really weakens Kakashi.



Seriously people is Kakashi in part 1 fast enough to surprise Tsunade?
No.

Tsunade can easily react to him and with superior taijuitsu man haul him.

Also Kabuto was considered to be equal to Kakashi in Part 1.

And out of shape and weakened Tsunade was able to school Kabuto.

My god I can't believe I actually have to defend Tsunade.
No offense Ono, but I disagree with you here.

But you are not calling me a wanker for this.

[Lady Tsunade]

Wave Arc Kakashi has nothing against that.



That really weakens Kakashi.



Seriously people is Kakashi in part 1 fast enough to surprise Tsunade?
No.

Tsunade can easily react to him and with superior taijuitsu man haul him.

Also Kabuto was considered to be equal to Kakashi in Part 1.

And out of shape and weakened Tsunade was able to school Kabuto.

My god I can't believe I actually have to defend Tsunade.
No offense Ono, but I disagree with you here.

But you are not calling me a wanker for this.

Best chance Kakashi has is a Lighting Blade. And if he tries to charge that. Tsunade simply Summons Katsuyu which can screw him over. In fact, a mere Shunshin and punch combo is probably enough to take him out. Part 1 Kakashi has nothing on Tsunade. Kamui is what really gives Kakashi a chance in any Tsunade vs Kakashi match. He doesn't have that. Nor does he have half as much speed.

So yes, I agree.

[Nyruss]

And out of shape and weakened Tsunade was able to school Kabuto.



If by "School Kabuto" you mean "Suprise Kabuto once because he was being arrogant on account of the fact that he effortlessly wiped the floor with her the entire rest of the fight while holding back", then yes.


Kamui is what really gives Kakashi a chance in any Tsunade vs Kakashi match.


That's not remotely true.

[Lady Tsunade]

Ignoring Close range combat,
Kakashi vs Katsuyu?

If he has no Kamui. All he has is Lightning Blade, Lightning Hounds and a few Shadow Clones. And those will do nothing to Katsuyu.

[Nyruss]

Kakashi doesn't need to fight Katsuyu, all he needs to do is kill Tsunade. Which he can and will. Handily.

[Lady Tsunade]

Under these circumstances. I highly doubt it. When Tsunades BL. She summons Katsuyu. As seen in her match with Oro. When Kakashis BL. He tries Kamui, Chidori+Kage Bunshin feints. And Lightning Hounds it seems. All of which do little to Katsuyu. And they won't be reaching Tsunade. He can kill probably kill Tsunade on the ground at close range. With all of his Part 2 feats. But without Kamui, he isn't reaching Tsunade while she sits atop Katsuyu. Running up her back does no good. Since she can just suck him into her body. As she did in the Invasion of Pein.

Katsuyu spits Acid at him, he gets tired out from dodging. And dies. Without Kamui, regardless of his speed. Kakashi doesn't > Tsunade. No matter you say. And in this scenario. A Wave Arc Kakashi can do next to nothing.

[Nyruss]

Kakashi doesn't need to fight Katsuyu, all he needs to do is kill Tsunade. Which he can and will. Handily.



Running up her back does no good. Since she can just suck him into her body. As she did in the Invasion of Pein


Katsuyu isn't fast enough to react to Kakashi's presence before Tsunade is dead, even if it were possible for her to do as you claim.

Kakashi does > Tsunade. I'm glad you admit that Tsunade is not all powerful.


Wave Arc Kakashi can do next to nothing.


It takes next to nothing to kill Tsunade. So that's fortuitous.

Edit: I just remembered that I wasn't going to bother disproving Sucknade wank anymore because it takes too much effort to convince demented Tsunade-tards of their obvious wrongness in assuming that Tsunade is omnipotent.

I shall take my victory and leave.

Edit 2: Typo. :P

[Lady Tsunade]

Kakashi doesn't need to fight Katsuyu, all he needs to do is kill Tsunade. Which he can and will. Handily.




Katsuyu isn't fast enough to react to Kakashi's presence before Tsunade is dead.

I'm glad you admit that Tsunade is not all powerful.

Katsuyu see's Kakashi run behind her. As he tries to Shunshin the entire span of Katsuyus body. Which is roughly 40 metres in height. By taking the height of Tsunade, which is 1.6m. Taken from the databook. And by using the unknown ninja which is shown to be standing beside Tsunade as she kneels down on the Hokage Tower, that ninja would , upon standing on top of each other about 25 times. Be the same size as Katsuyu. Obviously that ninja has a slight height difference than Tsunade. But nothing major. 1.6x 25= 40. Her height is at least around 40 metres. As I was saying, Katsuyu simply absorbs Kakashi as he runs up her back. She doesn't need to move any part of her body. So technically she doesn't need to physically react. As long as she see's/feels him running up her back she can absorb him.

Oh she's still great. And hugely underestimated in the BG. Tsunade>Kakashi. Imo. <3

EDIT: That's fine with me babes <3

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Dudemeister stop wanking kthx.

Katsuyu can't be killed by Kakashi, but Katsuyu can kill Kakashi, and Kakashi isn't going to get to Tsunade before she summons her or after.

She can dodge Chidori with a simple sidestep.

Kage Bushin get killed by a massive kick.

If there is water around he might be able to win with water vortrx but the location doesn't give any.

[321zigzag3]

If by "School Kabuto" you mean "Suprise Kabuto once because he was being arrogant on account of the fact that he effortlessly wiped the floor with her the entire rest of the fight while holding back", then yes.

An Tsunade was out of shape as well and already weak.

You aren't proving anything. Kabuto wasn't holding anything back. That was his best.





So lets see what Wave Arc Kakashi can do?

Raikiri.
Summoning: Dogs
Shadow Clone
Water Clone
Waterfall technique
Water Dragon
Sharingan


Thats it.

Also with pitiful stamina.

Mind you Tsunade could die under certain circumstances against Kakashi on close match but if she summons the slug Kakashi cannot do anything.

Slug spits wide range acid. KAkashi is forced to evade closer or farther but really.

Wave Arc Kakashi has weak stamina.