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View Full Version : Im kinda wondering.. Feats, Hype, and Other factors


SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 12:04 AM
How does people feel about using only feats in the BG without even concidering anything else like intelligence and hype? I know that the battleground is for people to debate on feats but to me feats alone isnt accurate enough.

Kisame Vs Jiraiya

In this thread, people were split into two sides, people who believes Kisame wins and those who believe Jiraiya wins. I personally think if we base this fight solely on feats, almost no one can beat Kisame with Water Dome fuzed with Samahada. But what about his admitting that Jiraiya is out of his league thing. I know thats a hype but if a character admits to something like that, I just think its more accurate if we believe them.

Another example is

Kisame VS Itachi

In this thread people were also divided. But didnt Kisame say his already below Itachi's level. Yet people were still so divided.

Im the kinda a person who likes to base a fight not just with feats but with everything that i can think off.. Intelligence, Speed feats, durability, experience, hype, common sense, everything I can use to get to a more accurate answer.

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 12:10 AM
Intelligence is a feat, but intelligence isn't going to save you from from getting, say, a face full of rasengan. you need speed and durability.

Hype can be used, just specify it in the OP or title, but it isn't used as a main source because hype is always innacurate without proof.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 12:24 AM
For example Kisame said Jiraiya is in a whole different level from him, so its possible to infer that his lying just because we have no prof except that fact that he said so.

The reason I ask this is because there are times were I'm bothered with the majority's choice of winner in some threads.

Also in past I've seen people say

Konohamaru > 4th Hokage just because Konohamaru showed more feats

4th Hokage < Kiba likewise because Kiba has more feats

and majority agreed

Im bothered about it cause I really wanna stick to whats "real" in the naruto world.

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 12:31 AM
For example Kisame said Jiraiya is in a whole different level from him, so its possible to infer that his lying just because we have no prof except that fact that he said so.

The reason I ask this is because there are times were I'm bothered with the majority's choice of winner in some threads.

Also in past I've seen people say

Konohamaru > 4th Hokage just because Konohamaru showed more feats

4th Hokage < Kiba likewise because Kiba has more feats

and majority agreed

Im bothered about it cause I really wanna stick to whats "real" in the naruto world.Red: We wuz just trollin' :lol:

Blue: I understand that this is ridiculous inthe Naruto World, but as I said before, simpy say "Hype is allowed" in your Opening Post if you want it that way, but otherwise, the BG rules aren't getting changed.

Lady Tsunade
08-18-2010, 02:43 AM
Hype can be used to a degree, I think. Without the OP stating it can be used.
An example would be " Jiraiya wins. Asides from his massive range of ninjutsu, he took part in two of the ninja wars, and at the age of 50 has had massive experience in battle. His opponent can't compare."

:/ I'm pretty sure thats allowed. But stuff like " Minato was said to be the strongest ninja ever! So he wins easily" is not.

gama-sennin
08-18-2010, 03:07 AM
Also in past I've seen people say

Konohamaru > 4th Hokage just because Konohamaru showed more feats

4th Hokage < Kiba likewise because Kiba has more feats

and majority agreed



The only major problem is with Minato and his "feats"...Kishi has not given any major feats to him and from the first chapter itself he was kinda godlike with all the kyuubi sealing and major/minor characters singing praises left and right....But as the series progressed more and more characters were introduced with haxxed up techniques and Minato didn't get anything at all.

So its kinda hard to see Minato getting beat up in every fight and that's the reason for most of the flaming, wanking etc....

IMO battles involving Minato should be judged based on hype as well as feats, not because I am a Minato fanboy(ofc I am) but because "lack of character development" is one of the major characteristics of this manga.

For every other character there is enough evidence from manga to debate properly without using hype.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 03:13 AM
Hype can be used to a degree, I think. Without the OP stating it can be used.
An example would be " Jiraiya wins. Asides from his massive range of ninjutsu, he took part in two of the ninja wars, and at the age of 50 has had massive experience in battle. His opponent can't compare."

:/ I'm pretty sure thats allowed. But stuff like " Minato was said to be the strongest ninja ever! So he wins easily" is not.
yeah i understand that.. but how about with a fight like Kisame vs Itachi.. Kisame clearly admits to be weaker of the two.. or Jiraiya vs Kisame. Kisame admitted that Jiraiya is in a whole different level. In order to get an accurate conclution, isnt it neccasary to atleast awknowledge what a character says.

and like Tsunade

I've seen many Battle thread where its almost

Tsunade<almost everyone

simply because of the lack of feats from Tsunade.

what do you feel about that?

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 03:17 AM
The only major problem is with Minato and his "feats"...Kishi has not given any major feats to him and from the first chapter itself he was kinda godlike with all the kyuubi sealing and major/minor characters singing praises left and right....But as the series progressed more and more characters were introduced with haxxed up techniques and Minato didn't get anything at all.

So its kinda hard to see Minato getting beat up in every fight and that's the reason for most of the flaming, wanking etc....

IMO battles involving Minato should be judged based on hype as well as feats, not because I am a Minato fanboy(ofc I am) but because "lack of character development" is one of the major characteristics of this manga.

For every other character there is enough evidence from manga to debate properly without using hype.[/QUOTE]
i understand that because relying just on feats really cant get the most accurate conclution.. Some ppl say in a fight like Minato Vs Kiba since we dont know much about Minato's feat Kiba wins. but i think thats really dumb because we are able to use common sense about the battle.

Lady Tsunade
08-18-2010, 03:32 AM
yeah i understand that.. but how about with a fight like Kisame vs Itachi.. Kisame clearly admits to be weaker of the two.. or Jiraiya vs Kisame. Kisame admitted that Jiraiya is in a whole different level. In order to get an accurate conclution, isnt it neccasary to atleast awknowledge what a character says.

and like Tsunade

I've seen many Battle thread where its almost

Tsunade<almost everyone

simply because of the lack of feats from Tsunade.

what do you feel about that?

What people say in the manga, and do in the manga are two completely different things. Kisame may have said Jiraiya was on a whole other level to him. But their skills are nearly on par. Itachi has also shown superior feats to Kisame, he should win.

Tsunade isn't as featless as a lot of people say. I often give legitimate feats for her but they are usually cast aside and ignored by people, because Dudemeister replies to them. He hates Tsunade, and trolls me because of it :L

A lot of people forget that in the main fight we've seen Tsunade fight in(Tsunade vs Orochimaru and Kabuto) she was very rusty. It was the first time in a number of years she'd fought properly. She's probably a lot better in combat now, than she was back in Part 1. For example, did you know Tsunade did, or almost did, react to Asura Path? But I guess that is hyping a little Lol I understand where you're coming from but, rules are rules. If the character hasn't shown it. They aren't using it.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 03:45 AM
What people say in the manga, and do in the manga are two completely different things. Kisame may have said Jiraiya was on a whole other level to him. But their skills are nearly on par. Itachi has also shown superior feats to Kisame, he should win.

Tsunade isn't as featless as a lot of people say. I often give legitimate feats for her but they are usually cast aside and ignored by people, because Dudemeister replies to them. He hates Tsunade, and trolls me because of it :L

A lot of people forget that in the main fight we've seen Tsunade fight in(Tsunade vs Orochimaru and Kabuto) she was very rusty. It was the first time in a number of years she'd fought properly. She's probably a lot better in combat now, than she was back in Part 1. For example, did you know Tsunade did, or almost did, react to Asura Path? But I guess that is hyping a little Lol I understand where you're coming from but, rules are rules. If the character hasn't shown it. They aren't using it.
i know i've always watched your arguements with him and i kinda enjoy it because at one point he gets very persuasive but then you look back and you realize he really isnt debating anymore but hating on the characters haha.

my favorite characters are the Sannin and since they been introduced in the series I've always studied there battles a number a times and the funny thing is Tsunade havent had any "power up" yet in the shippuden series. before the shippuden, ppl thought tsunade was a goddess but since we've seen jiraiya and orochimaru at their best, very few even conciders her to be the same level as them but they forget that we've havent seen her fight at all in the shippuden series. all we've seen is her capability to hold large chakra amount in her forehead, enough to heal majority of the village, i say LARGE because tsunade even said at one point medical ninjutsu takes too much chakra

Black Shuck
08-18-2010, 04:54 AM
I agree that going by feats is logical and all. But the thing is when a character lacks on feats the debate becomes bs if hype is not considered. Actual stomp battles can be debated the other way around only because Kishi hasn't provided enough feats. The outcome is obviously inaccurate.
(Of course feats should have the highest priority)
imo;
When it comes to hype, the arguer must exclude any exaggerations, inaccurate data, etc. And must only use up to a reasonable extent.

Here is a post of mine on a bit similar topic. >>
cont...
Author's word: Direct(& serious) expression made by the author either in manga/book or outside. Excluding hyperboles, mistranslations and the like.

Feats >= Author's word

And about "What if the author just said <some ridiculous statement>, do you believe him?"
What the HELL? Authors aren't lunatics! They don't make such statements. (If they somehow did, we just have to assume that it's either a joke or s/he off her/his damn rocker)

- Sakura is only said to be of genjutsu type. That doesn't mean her genjutsu is good. (not until she learn it anyway)
- Haku is not light speed. [there're countless arguments to prove that]
- Kakashi's 1000 jutsu thing is most likely an exaggeration. Anyhow Kishi can't prove that in manga for obvious reasons.
- Same with Shikamaru's IQ score of 200<.

Lastly, if Kishi is to prove all those stuff, 'Naruto' will be something like an encyclopedia -not a manga. So the readers have to be satisfied with the given facts. (<-- if they are reasonable enough)

Lady Tsunade
08-18-2010, 05:24 AM
Actually, you can move this to the BG. It can be discussed there.

THE X UCHIHA
08-18-2010, 05:37 AM
interesting .. I’m totally w/u .. but dont u think ur thread would be more useful if u move it 2 the BG

Kon
08-18-2010, 05:49 AM
Cool thread but wrong section

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 12:19 PM
I agree that going by feats is logical and all. But the thing is when a character lacks on feats the debate becomes bs if hype is not considered. Actual stomp battles can be debated the other way around only because Kishi hasn't provided enough feats. The outcome is obviously inaccurate.
(Of course feats should have the highest priority)
imo;
When it comes to hype, the arguer must exclude any exaggerations, inaccurate data, etc. And must only use up to a reasonable extent.

Here is a post of mine on a bit similar topic. >>

What about the if the characters themselves recognize them selves to be weaker then their opponent.. Like Jiraiya Vs Kisame.. cant you use that statement to debate?

Nyruss
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
Character statements are inferior to actual feats.

What if Pain said "I can never defeat that sex god, Konohamaru, for his power level is OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!"?

FlyingThunderGod
08-18-2010, 03:52 PM
No to thread jack, but sometimes common sense is not used

Nyruss
08-18-2010, 03:55 PM
Feats > common sense. Although the term common sense is inaccurate, as it is very rare for someone to have any amount of sense.

Shikamaru Nara
08-18-2010, 04:32 PM
For example Kisame said Jiraiya is in a whole different level from him, so its possible to infer that his lying just because we have no prof except that fact that he said so.

The reason I ask this is because there are times were I'm bothered with the majority's choice of winner in some threads.

Also in past I've seen people say

Konohamaru > 4th Hokage just because Konohamaru showed more feats

4th Hokage < Kiba likewise because Kiba has more feats

and majority agreed

Im bothered about it cause I really wanna stick to whats "real" in the naruto world.


Nobody knows their limitations better than themselves. How about that? I mean really? What's up?

Then argue it, but you won't win, because 99% of the time, the majority is correct.

Then they're retards. Simple as that. xD

You're making this up. This has never been said.

Yeah, keep smoking whatever it is you are smoking, because I've never seen any fights like this.

Okay, you do that.

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 04:46 PM
No to thread jack, but sometimes common sense is not used
Wait, saying...

Minato iz GAWD so he winz!1!!!!1!!!!!1111!

Is common sense, because I see that an awful lot.

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Most of the battleground wins that people pick would not come true on the show.For instance the kakashi vs Oro battle. Kakashi would put up a good fight but he would have died. Thats why the character personalty restriction is dumb. In the true fight that would decide the outcome.

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 05:06 PM
Most of the battleground wins that people pick would not come true on the show.For instance the kakashi vs Oro battle. Kakashi would put up a good fight but he would have died. Thats why the character personalty restriction is dumb. In the true fight that would decide the outcome.
It doesn't matter what comes true in the show, because the show is so influenced by plot it wouldn't even be good. Kakashi wouldn't of died in a Fight with Oro. Naruto would come and save Kakashi just in time because of plot. Bloodlust makes things so much more simpler. If they were in character, then you'd have to think about "What would Kakashi do?"

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Thats true but battlegrounds are always bias. People chose one aspect and run with it wont change their minds for nothing. Start name calling like little kids then get mad when you trash on them. Thats what make it fun though.

321zigzag3
08-18-2010, 05:59 PM
Thats true but battlegrounds are always bias. People chose one aspect and run with it wont change their minds for nothing. Start name calling like little kids then get mad when you trash on them. Thats what make it fun though.

Its not like there is a such thing called non biased forum.

Oh wait there isn't.

But mind you.

BG is one of the better ones.

I have been to several naruto battle forums. They are worse.

I say the one in NF Battledome is overall better though sometimes. Moviecodec is here and there because it has a bunch of trolls and intelligent people mixed in like a blender.

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 06:05 PM
Thats true thats why I like to pick the unfavorable side. In that battle I knew Kakashi could win. But he no way good enough to give Orichimaru an execution right off the bat. That was the whole point I was trying to make.But people was crying and acting like little kids and got mad when I came down to their level couldnt take it and kept saying the same thing over and over. Probably just to get their post count up I was upfront about mine.

321zigzag3
08-18-2010, 06:13 PM
Kamui > Orochimaru > Kakashi

Although if Orochimaru had Manda and/or Hydra. Makes Kamui difficult.


If you talking about Dudemeister he wasn't mad. He was merely amused.

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 06:33 PM
As was I people turned it into a big thing.
And I was like
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff221/asian_sensation704/batman-dark-knight-joker.jpg

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 06:40 PM
Thats true but battlegrounds are always bias. People chose one aspect and run with it wont change their minds for nothing. Start name calling like little kids then get mad when you trash on them. Thats what make it fun though.
With what your location is, I'm not realy sure you should be talking about acting like a little kid.

Those people who debate with 1 point of view, like Itachi vs. Jiraiya for instance.

Debater 1: Tsukiyomi GG Jiraiya
Debater 2: Gamabunta GG Itachi
D 1: Tsukiyomi on Gama and Jiraiya.
D 2: Jiraiya gets out because he know how then summons another Toad.

It's what I consider improper debating unless it realy give the win. I have even done things like above, but making a habit out of that isn't good. You need more feats and such.

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 07:07 PM
With what your location is, I'm not realy sure you should be talking about acting like a little kid.

Those people who debate with 1 point of view, like Itachi vs. Jiraiya for instance.

Debater 1: Tsukiyomi GG Jiraiya
Debater 2: Gamabunta GG Itachi
D 1: Tsukiyomi on Gama and Jiraiya.
D 2: Jiraiya gets out because he know how then summons another Toad.

It's what I consider improper debating unless it realy give the win. I have even done things like above, but making a habit out of that isn't good. You need more feats and such.

Dont be mad at my location she came to my house you need not be concern I will treat you like you were my son.
Anyway since I got that joke out the way what you said was true. But if you payed attention to the forum you could see that I wasnt the only one to do it. At least Itried to change it around. But no everybody got mad and closed down the thread. It was funny to me. I am just curious why the people acted like that.

NagatoGod_of_Pain
08-18-2010, 07:26 PM
Plot should to be considered with hype. For one thing, it's easily debatable about who wins between Jiraiya and Kisame considering feats. In the manga however, personalities can greatly alter a battle. Kisame and Itachi would've easily killed Naruto and Sasuke at that point in time. Without plot/personalities, the story would be over. Why didn't Jiraiya use SotU on Pain? Mainly because of plot.

Also, IMO Kisame said Itachi was stronger mainly out of respect. Itachi was the senior after all between the two in regards to the Akatsuki pairings.

RealNinja
08-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Personality is one the reason a character is strong. Lets use shikamru for example without his mind Hidan would have slaughtered him in a fight one on one.

Black Shuck
08-18-2010, 08:32 PM
What about the if the characters themselves recognize them selves to be weaker then their opponent.. Like Jiraiya Vs Kisame.. cant you use that statement to debate?
Can you give me the chapter and page numbers?
Character statements are inferior to actual feats.

What if Pain said "I can never defeat that sex god, Konohamaru, for his power level is OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!"?
`|(

Nyruss
08-18-2010, 08:37 PM
Personality is one the reason a character is strong. Lets use shikamru for example without his mind Hidan would have slaughtered him in a fight one on one.

Shikamaru with his mind would be slaughtered by Hidan in a one on one fight. The only reason Shikamaru ever beat him in the magna was plot.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 08:41 PM
Can you give me the chapter and page numbers?

`|(
original naruto series where jiraiya first saw itachi and kisame

chapter and page? dude i aint that nerdy to be lookin it up, if you dont believe me then i really dont care..

Black Shuck
08-18-2010, 08:51 PM
original naruto series where jiraiya first saw itachi and kisame

chapter and page? dude i aint that nerdy to be lookin it up, if you dont believe me then i really dont care..
Nah, it's not that. I just want to read it before answering your question. (I too remember something like that)

Nyruss
08-18-2010, 08:53 PM
Itachi claimed that if he and Kisame tried fighting Jiraiya they would both die. He claimed that if there were many more of them, the result would be the same.

There is no way of knowing whether this claim is accurate, given the fact that Itachi was revealed to be a mole for Konoha and being willing to lie to insure the safety of Sucksuke and Naretardo.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Nah, it's not that. I just want to read it before answering your question. (I too remember something like that)
oh haha really sorry

i have all the book for shippuden but only have volume 19 for the original series..

Black Shuck
08-18-2010, 09:39 PM
I couldn't find it... (A direct statement saying Kisame is inferior to Jiraiya)

Edit: Kisame - "It was good that we found him at the ramen shop. But he's protected by on of the legendary three ninjas. That guy might be a match of the number one of the leaf and one of the Mist's seven strongest"

- Not to taken literally. Kind of an overstatement.
- I think, by a 'match' he means, Jiraiya can stand up to both of them unlike most others. (He will eventually lose though)
::Anyone of those three and be a trouble to the other two::
- Anyhow.. from this statement alone we cannot give the cup to Jiraiya. (in Kisame vs. Jiraiya)
- Time matters.
- All we can gather accurately is - "Jiraiya is a hard-to-beat opponent for Kisame, even he may not be able to beat him at all"
- Since they both have a strong base of feats, ^this is not saying much. But if Kishi hasn't shown much of Jiraiya's feats, that statement can at least give Jiraiya an equal footage in the fight.

Akatsuki X
08-18-2010, 09:54 PM
I think a healthy mix of both feats and hype is needed.
For example, Kisame v.s Jiriaya.

Kisame did say (by hype) that Jiraiya could beat him.

But that was PTS.

Considering how 3+ years had gone by since Kisame made that remark, it is possible that he had developed Samehada fusion and waterdome during that time.

So I think that time spans and such are also to be taken into consideration when speaking of feats and hype.

SimpleGenin
08-18-2010, 10:30 PM
I think a healthy mix of both feats and hype is needed.
For example, Kisame v.s Jiriaya.

Kisame did say (by hype) that Jiraiya could beat him.

But that was PTS.

Considering how 3+ years had gone by since Kisame made that remark, it is possible that he had developed Samehada fusion and waterdome during that time.

So I think that time spans and such are also to be taken into consideration when speaking of feats and hype.
THE BEST PERSON IN THIS FORUM

I think a healthy mix of both feats and hype is needed.

The 1st Hokage
08-18-2010, 10:33 PM
I think a healthy mix of both feats and hype is needed.
For example, Kisame v.s Jiriaya.

Kisame did say (by hype) that Jiraiya could beat him.

But that was PTS.

Considering how 3+ years had gone by since Kisame made that remark, it is possible that he had developed Samehada fusion and waterdome during that time.

So I think that time spans and such are also to be taken into consideration when speaking of feats and hype.
Thank you Mr. X, or should I say Professor X?

Anything said before the time skip is basicly void IMO because of the 3 year time span. Training, jutsu developement, ect. has accured and feats and abilities have changed.

Akatsuki X
08-18-2010, 10:47 PM
Thank you Mr. X, or should I say Professor X?

Anything said before the time skip is basicly void IMO because of the 3 year time span. Training, jutsu developement, ect. has accured and feats and abilities have changed.

Your very welcome pupil Firsty.

And yeah I agree it's pretty useless knowledge since we don't know any of the abilities of the characters in PTS or during the time skip, it's hard to say.......

Black Shuck
08-18-2010, 10:55 PM
I couldn't find it... (A direct statement saying Kisame is inferior to Jiraiya)

Edit:<> Kisame - "It was good that we found him at the ramen shop. But he's protected by on of the legendary three ninjas. That guy might be a match of the number one of the leaf and one of the Mist's seven strongest"</>

- Not to taken literally. Kind of an overstatement.
- I think, by a 'match' he means, Jiraiya can stand up to both of them unlike most others. (He will eventually lose though)
::Anyone of those three and be a trouble to the other two::
- Anyhow.. from this statement alone we cannot give the cup to Jiraiya. (in Kisame vs. Jiraiya)
- Time matters.
- All we can gather accurately is - "Jiraiya is a hard-to-beat opponent for Kisame, even he may not be able to beat him at all"
- Since they both have a strong base of feats, ^this is not saying much. But if Kishi hasn't shown much of Jiraiya's feats, that statement can at least give Jiraiya an equal footage in the fight.
@SG: Is the what you were referring?

Akatsuki X
08-19-2010, 09:09 PM
Haha flattering, but it's just my opinion.

SimpleGenin
08-20-2010, 08:12 PM
i actuallly dont know.. but i remember him saying something like that..

321zigzag3
08-21-2010, 08:12 AM
Feats take priority always.
But one must take in account of intelligence and state of mind and some of the legit hype.

Nyruss
08-21-2010, 09:09 AM
Unless the fight is totally one sided. Like, say, Kakashi vs Tsunade.

Shika-fiend
08-22-2010, 03:54 PM
I believe that hype should rarely be used. Sometimes people declare threads "Stomp threads" when really, the person they are defending is all hype and no feats. It angers me that people use quotes from characters instead of real moves or real facts about the character.

EDIT: Only in some cases, I believe hype is necessary. eg. "Hanzo beat all 3 Sannin, so he should be able to beat _____"

Lone Wolf
08-22-2010, 04:18 PM
In some occasions you don't need feats to determine how powerful a character is.

For example its common sense that any of the Vice Admiral can solo the Strawhat crew without too much difficulty, it won't matter if they have feats or not.

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 02:09 PM
Also, is the rule in this forum work multiverse? DbZ YuyU hakusho

Because it doesnt.. Frieza would be the strongest, and Toguro

321zigzag3
10-21-2010, 02:32 PM
I will say this. Feats play a vast majority role but if its something we don't need such as the hype is clearly believable then its fine. Purposefully general and vague I know, shoot me. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/radioheadlj9.png

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 02:39 PM
I will say this. Feats play a vast majority role but if its something we don't need such as the hype is clearly believable then its fine. Purposefully general and vague I know, shoot me. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/radioheadlj9.png
Thats the same as logic right? But a FAIL member once told me using logic/hype is not accpeted here because people have different logics. Thats why feats trumps any feats in this forum.

*bang* haha

321zigzag3
10-21-2010, 03:00 PM
Thats the same as logic right? But a FAIL member once told me using logic/hype is not accpeted here because people have different logics. Thats why feats trumps any feats in this forum.

Who said that?

Actually logic is partially relative at the very least to their own. That is why Debate exists. I was telling Dio Brando the same thing.

The reason feats mostly trump though is because its simple: its their showings. Although any good forum will include some hype in their within grounds.

*bang* haha

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2068/vegetamaybe.png

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 03:03 PM
Who said that?

Actually logic is partially relative at the very least to their own. That is why Debate exists. I was telling Dio Brando the same thing.

The reason feats mostly trump though is because its simple: its their showings. Although any good forum will include some hype in their within grounds.



http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2068/vegetamaybe.png
don no excactly.. but it was when i was new here and i argued based on hype

321zigzag3
10-21-2010, 03:08 PM
Hype gets messy. Although I will say this. Lets not get too serious. http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2068/vegetamaybe.png

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 03:13 PM
It isnt serious, I was just wondering if there was a set rule for everything.
I was just thinking that anime is anime and same rule should apply to most.
For example, in DBZ andriod 16,17,18,19 showed no feats that suggest they could take on frieza, yet it is known that they are several times stronger then frieza. If hellzone granade can give 17 a run for his money then a death ball to the face would just overkill.

321zigzag3
10-21-2010, 03:17 PM
Then you must bring it up and await for what other posters think.

Nyruss
10-21-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't remember much from the Android Saga, but I seem to recall the inferior Androids 19 and 20 were capable of holding their own against a Super Saiyan. 17 and 18 > 19 and 20.
Super Saiyan >>>>>>>> Frieza even more than Luffy >>>>> Naruto.

Shikamaru Nara
10-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Like I said a few months ago.

Hype is not a feat. Therefore, it is not valid.

Nyruss
10-21-2010, 03:29 PM
Fighting a Super Saiyan that titty stomped Frieza isn't a feat?

Shikamaru Nara
10-21-2010, 03:29 PM
Fighting a Super Saiyan that titty stomped Frieza isn't a feat?

That's new. I like it.

But no. It's just fighting. Nothing more, nothing less.

The 1st Hokage
10-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Android 18 >>> Frieza because: He was owning SSJ Vegeta, who equels if not is greater than Frieza. Logic is accepted, if the logic isn't stupid.

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 03:31 PM
I don't remember much from the Android Saga, but I seem to recall the inferior Androids 19 and 20 were capable of holding their own against a Super Saiyan. 17 and 18 > 19 and 20.
Super Saiyan >>>>>>>> Frieza even more than Luffy >>>>> Naruto.
Who could blame you, the andriod saga stinked. It was such a turn down especially after the whole frieza thing.

Actually 19 might just be about as strong as frieza if were going by hype. the only reaosn goku lost was because of the heart problem. Vageta took care of him easily.. BUt if you look at feats, 17 and 18 cant do anything against Frieza. By hype, 18 and 17 owns.

Thats my question, does the rule in this thread carry on with other fanfictional characters from other manga?

The 1st Hokage
10-21-2010, 03:39 PM
A feat, would be making SSJ Vegeta piss himself with a knee to the gut. 18 blitzed the hell out of him during that fight.

EVIL
10-21-2010, 03:58 PM
simpegenine , do u know why i don't like hype
because of its lake of common sense
like when some one loses Battle with out using his strongest move !! (like with kakashi kumai )

the author gives his feats randomly , and he don't give a ;);););) about its potential
so i like to go with feats

and that is why i like this place
because this place their is no plot

also the hype is what the author think , right !
and the author proved to us the he Had short termed memory
remember how he hyped kakashi allot in the beginning of the serious , and said he has over 1000 jutsu , and yet he hasn't show over 10 jutsu loooooool
all his Battle is lighting blade lighting blade lighting blade lighting blade lol

and about how he hyped the sanin


i know what u want , but believe me , hype is not consistent in the anime

SimpleGenin
10-21-2010, 04:06 PM
simpegenine , do u know why i don't like hype
because of its lake of common sense
like when some one loses Battle with out using his strongest move !! (like with kakashi kumai )

the author gives his feats randomly , and he don't give a ;);););) about its potential
so i like to go with feats

and that is why i like this place
because this place their is no plot

also the hype is what the author think , right !
and the author proved to us the he Had short termed memory
remember how he hyped kakashi allot in the beginning of the serious , and said he has over 1000 jutsu , and yet he hasn't show over 10 jutsu loooooool
all his Battle is lighting blade lighting blade lighting blade lighting blade lol

and about how he hyped the sanin


i know what u want , but believe me , hype is not consistent in the anime
Ok thats fine, but that would mean Frieza being more powerful then 17 and 18 in DBZ. Because if we go by feats, 17 and 18 has no feats that suggest they could survive a direct blow from death ball or death beam.

tyrell4life194
10-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Feats > common sense. Although the term common sense is inaccurate, as it is very rare for someone to have any amount of sense.
You barely even use feats. You also lack the common sense.

Hype can be used, but you can only use it to the point, when it's not old school fanwanking. For example "Goku wins because he has more experience under his belt, and can sense things"

But, "Naruto wins because he whups!!!!!" is just plain wrong. That's why I only use hype when necessary. If you overuse it, then you're considered a wanker, no matter any anime you like.

Feats is a different story. It's pure facts from the manga. The main problem is, most people tend to not use the manga. I've seen people tell me on a debate that they use the databooks. Now we all know that databooks are massive failures and a bunch or garbage because they have hyperboles. For example, Kishimoto's databooks states that Haku is light speed once he enters his ice mirrors. Not only that but my bro hacked my account on youtube, claiming that it was me, and making up lies about Amaterasu being as hot as the sun. The ONLY thing that is canon, that will actually allow you to use feats is the Manga. Not Anime, because the Manga came out first. And definitely not no fillers.