Itachi vs. Kakashi

[Tourune]

Location: Uchiha Crest

Restrictions: No MS for Itachi. No Kamui for Kakashi

Distance: 90 Meters

Acceptions: Equal Speed

[chidoriroar]

i take back what i said when i defended you. youre refusing to learn from your mistakes: (stomp threads), (equal speed). itachi wins, he can use a paralization genjutsu and kill kakashi.

[XxblackxX]

Itachi and Kakashi have pretty much the same advantages but then again Itachi would rape stomp Kakashi all the way to the Sand Village.

[Kuromaki]

i take back what i said when i defended you. youre refusing to learn from your mistakes: (stomp threads), (equal speed). itachi wins, he can use a paralization genjutsu and kill kakashi.
Can't Kakashi dispel it with Sharingan?
Itachi and Kakashi have pretty much the same advantages but then again Itachi would rape stomp Kakashi all the way to the Sand Village.
How? In the Battlegrounds, you have to explain your position. Post farming like this is frowned upon.

[XxblackxX]

Well Itachi has already caught Kakashi in his Mangekyou Sharigan twice already. Kakashi may be fast, but he still cant look his oppenant into the eyes to he cant you sharigan very well.

I beleive that is right but I think Im wrong.

[Kuromaki]

Well Itachi has already caught Kakashi in his Mangekyou Sharigan twice already. Kakashi may be fast, but he still cant look his oppenant into the eyes to he cant you sharigan very well.

I beleive that is right but I think Im wrong.
Too bad MS is restricted in this fight. The conditions of the fight are in the first post.

That makes no sense >_>

[Mr. Dr.]

Shackling Stakes Genjutsu for Itachi's win.
Same way he broke Oro.


It does not require Magnekyou

[takuya]

Without MS, they're about equal. The only thing Itachi has on Kakashi then is handsign speed(during Part 1 Kakashi said he couldn't keep up with Itachi's handsign speed), but Kakashi might be able to follow it since he has the Sharingan and his own handsign speed has increased(he performed Water Dragon Jutsu, a jutsu that requires 42 handsigns, roughly in 3 seconds).

I say Kakashi wins this. Dispelling Genjutsu should be easy with his Sharingan, and Kakashi has water style to go against Itachi's fire and water style. He also has a few earth style. He could do an all around mud wall jutsu to trap Itachi then he can plow through his own attack with a Raikiri to strike Itachi. With the speed equalized, Kakashi should be able to take this.

[Mr. Dr.]

What genjutsu has Kakashi ever dispelled with his Sharingan?

[WindScar22]

He might have disspelled the Nirvana Technique in the Chunin Exams to wake everyone up from Kabuto's Genjutsu. Anyway, I give this to Itachi. He's more suited to his Sharingan, and Kakashi just hasn't shown any way of resistance against Itachi.

[Akatsuki X]

With Itachi restricted so much, Kakashi wins simply with a greater amount of jutsu's.

[shinobi_guardian_12]

Kakashi easily. He knows how to get out of Gen-Jutsu like jariah did. He also has has sharingon that he can use copy jutsu with so i say Kakashi 100%

[Shika]

Well Itachi has already caught Kakashi in his Mangekyou Sharigan twice already. Kakashi may be fast, but he still cant look his oppenant into the eyes to he cant you sharigan very well.

I beleive that is right but I think Im wrong.

To bad MS cant be used. Read the restrictions next time..

But I think im going with Kakashi on this one. Itachi's main advantage was his MS, so im not entirely sure, but im thinking Kakashi.

[Mr. Dr.]

Kakashi easily. He knows how to get out of Gen-Jutsu like jariah did. He also has has sharingon that he can use copy jutsu with so i say Kakashi 100%

What proof do you have of Kakashi's ability to escape high level genjutsu?

Anything Kakashi's non-MS sharingan can do Itach's can do better.
Plus Itachi has crow clones along with regular clones.

Kakashi's only advantage is raiton but I think he would get caught genjutsu before that could happen

[colorles]

why is speed equal? to be honest i am not sure who that would effect speedwise. should have just kept the speeds as they are

in seal speed they are about the same in part 2 as ccan be seen by there part 2 skirmish. quite honestly in taijutsu they are comparable with maybe an advantage to kakashi due to raikiri and the such, ninjutsu goes to Kakashi, and genjutsu to Itachi, with both capable of combo's with the such as well as various types of clones

i am saying this with there natural speeds mind you, with which they are pretty much evenly matched in alot of ways without MS (with MS, it becomes a haxx fest with Kamui being the very likely victor), with maybe Kakashi having the slight advantage with recent feats

also in regards to Kakashi getting caught in Itachi's genjutsu, well i dont see that happening considering he already experienced tsukiyomi, and in part 2 proved that he can overcome Itachi's genjutsu either directly or find ways arround it. even tsukiyomi at this point would not be out of current Kakashi's ability to overcome, as if Itachi has MS, Kakashi would have already kamui'd him, or he could possibly use Kamui within the tsukiyomi dimention on Itachi's head. notice how tsukiyomi has yet to be used on another user of the MS?

[chidoriroar]

Can't Kakashi dispel it with Sharingan?

How? In the Battlegrounds, you have to explain your position. Post farming like this is frowned upon.
he doesnt know about itachi's powers so he wont notice.

[gama-sennin]

Without MS they both are ninjas with simple sharingan. Other than the time when Itachi came to konoha we have not seen him doing any nin-jutsu that is not related to MS. On the other hand kakashi has shown that he can use 3 elements namely lightning, earth, water with almost equal affinity.

Without tsukyuyomi the level of Itachi's genjutsu becomes considerably weaker whereas we still have the same kakashi that fought zabuza with few more feat additions since then. He can fight Itachi's fire with water element of his own.

Kakashi can win this one with sheer number of jutsus that he has already used in manga.

[Tourune]

i take back what i said when i defended you. youre refusing to learn from your mistakes: (stomp threads), (equal speed). itachi wins, he can use a paralization genjutsu and kill kakashi.
Im not a baby i didnt ask for your defendidng

Kakashi despelled Itachi's Genjutsu B4.

[Tourune]

Itachi and Kakashi have pretty much the same advantages but then again Itachi would rape stomp Kakashi all the way to the Sand Village.

Well Itachi has already caught Kakashi in his Mangekyou Sharigan twice already. Kakashi may be fast, but he still cant look his oppenant into the eyes to he cant you sharigan very well.

I beleive that is right but I think Im wrong.

Shackling Stakes Genjutsu for Itachi's win.
Same way he broke Oro.


It does not require Magnekyou

He might have disspelled the Nirvana Technique in the Chunin Exams to wake everyone up from Kabuto's Genjutsu. Anyway, I give this to Itachi. He's more suited to his Sharingan, and Kakashi just hasn't shown any way of resistance against Itachi.

What proof do you have of Kakashi's ability to escape high level genjutsu?

Anything Kakashi's non-MS sharingan can do Itach's can do better.
Plus Itachi has crow clones along with regular clones.

Kakashi's only advantage is raiton but I think he would get caught genjutsu before that could happen

why is speed equal? to be honest i am not sure who that would effect speedwise. should have just kept the speeds as they are

in seal speed they are about the same in part 2 as ccan be seen by there part 2 skirmish. quite honestly in taijutsu they are comparable with maybe an advantage to kakashi due to raikiri and the such, ninjutsu goes to Kakashi, and genjutsu to Itachi, with both capable of combo's with the such as well as various types of clones

i am saying this with there natural speeds mind you, with which they are pretty much evenly matched in alot of ways without MS (with MS, it becomes a haxx fest with Kamui being the very likely victor), with maybe Kakashi having the slight advantage with recent feats

also in regards to Kakashi getting caught in Itachi's genjutsu, well i dont see that happening considering he already experienced tsukiyomi, and in part 2 proved that he can overcome Itachi's genjutsu either directly or find ways arround it. even tsukiyomi at this point would not be out of current Kakashi's ability to overcome, as if Itachi has MS, Kakashi would have already kamui'd him, or he could possibly use Kamui within the tsukiyomi dimention on Itachi's head. notice how tsukiyomi has yet to be used on another user of the MS?
In the begging Kakashi broke out of Itachi's Genjutsu so now he's WAY stronger so hell be able to break it.

[The 1st Hokage]

With Itachi restricted so much, Kakashi wins simply with a greater amount of jutsu's.Shakling Stakes is all it will take.

Kakashi easily. He knows how to get out of Gen-Jutsu like jariah did. He also has has sharingon that he can use copy jutsu with so i say Kakashi 100%
fail.

When has Kakashi shown the ability to dispell a genjutsu above D-Rank? Aslo, it is Jiraiya.

@ Tourune and his fail posts: Gai saved Kakashi's ass. Kakashi did not break out of Tsukiyomi.

[Kuroda Taishi]

What proof do you have of Kakashi's ability to escape high level genjutsu?

Anything Kakashi's non-MS sharingan can do Itach's can do better.
Plus Itachi has crow clones along with regular clones.

Kakashi's only advantage is raiton but I think he would get caught genjutsu before that could happen

Crow clones are a Genjutsu

Im not a baby i didnt ask for your defendidng

Kakashi despelled Itachi's Genjutsu B4.

When? Chapter and page # please

In the begging Kakashi broke out of Itachi's Genjutsu so now he's WAY stronger so hell be able to break it.


Same as above.

[Lady Tsunade]

Even without MS , Itachis sharingan is far more advanced than Kakashis. He should be able to avoid most of Kakashis moves with relative ease. However, Itachi seems to be limited to mere Fire Style Techniques and Genjutsu. Which Kakashi can counter. Kakashi would probably win. Itachi doesn't have enough offense with so many restrictions.

[Teddie]

Even without MS , Itachis sharingan is far more advanced than Kakashis. He should be able to avoid most of Kakashis moves with relative ease. However, Itachi seems to be limited to mere Fire Style Techniques and Genjutsu. Which Kakashi can counter. Kakashi would probably win. Itachi doesn't have enough offense with so many restrictions.
A sharingan is a sharingan. That really wont help him with a raikiri coming towards him, or a water encampment wall, or this that and the other. I simply agree with you and increase the amount of Kakashi would win by.

[The 1st Hokage]

A sharingan is a sharingan. That really wont help him with a raikiri coming towards him, or a water encampment wall, or this that and the other. I simply agree with you and increase the amount of Kakashi would win by.
Ever heard of Shackling Stakes and exploding crow clone? Kakashi can't dispell genjutsu, then he is blow away by an exploding clone.

[Jinchiruuki]

No feats from Kakashi showing him to have broken out of Itachi's genjutsu. Itachi wins.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Ever heard of Shackling Stakes and exploding crow clone? Kakashi can't dispell genjutsu, then he is blow away by an exploding clone.

Itachi doesn't have a Crow Clone. It is a genjutsu. He does however have an exploding clone

[Teddie]

Ever heard of Shackling Stakes and exploding crow clone? Kakashi can't dispell genjutsu, then he is blow away by an exploding clone.

When has he ever done either of those without Tsukiyomi?
If there is an answer, I will concede I am wrong.
If not, Kakashi takes.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Itachi used his exploding clone when he fought with Kakshi in Konoha. Not sure about others.

[Teddie]

Exploding clone is a Ninjutsu. I was referring to the Genjutsu.
You are correct though.

[Jinchiruuki]

Itachi doesn't have a Crow Clone. It is a genjutsu. He does however have an exploding clone

Wait I thought Exploding clone was also a part of genjutsu? Wow then yeah that adds even more leverage.

When has he ever done either of those without Tsukiyomi?
If there is an answer, I will concede I am wrong.
If not, Kakashi takes.

The flashback of Itachi binding Orochimaru and cutting off his hand. That was not Tsuky. Same with his genjutsu he used on Deidara, same thing on Naruto when all his teammates heads started coming out of his body etc etc. I don't know for sure if these were all in the manga but I assume at least a couple were.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Exploding clone is a Ninjutsu. I was referring to the Genjutsu.
You are correct though.

He used his normal Genjutsu on Naruto during the Rescue Gaara arc, and also when Naruto encountered him before he fought Sasuke.

[Teddie]

Wait I thought Exploding clone was also a part of genjutsu? Wow then yeah that adds even more leverage.



The flashback of Itachi binding Orochimaru and cutting off his hand. That was not Tsuky. Same with his genjutsu he used on Deidara, same thing on Naruto when all his teammates heads started coming out of his body etc etc. I don't know for sure if these were all in the manga but I assume at least a couple were.
You're correct on Orochi.
Which genjutsu on Deidara?

[Mr. Dr.]

Crow clones are a Genjutsu




I know you agree with me but that's actually not true.


Clone explosion is a ninjutsu.
But anyway Itachi has more than even enough obscure genjutsu to overwhelm Kakashi.

[colorles]

Itachi catching Kakashi in genjutsu is very unlikely; they already fought at the begining of shippuden, and he couldnt do it, and the clone has the same genjutsu. Sasuke who did not even have MS broke through his genjutsu, and Kakashi's sharingan is considerably more powerful than Sasuke's was. just by attaining mangekyo Sharingan, is should be obvious that Kakashi's base sharingan is of the highest level. Itachi cannot catch Kakashi in genjutsu, as Kakashi can either avoid it through clones, and having an advanced sharingan himself, he can simply look into Itachi's eyes and counter. Itachi had to briefly close his eyes and essentially flinch at the power of early shippuden Kakashi's sharingan. Kakashi's sharingan is fast enought ot track susano arrows, lightening, and any moving objuect displayed thus far in narutoverse, and in PART ONE he somewhat withstood tsukiyomi, and did not fear tsukiyomi at all at the begining of shippuden. by all reasoning, Kakashi can see through and counter Itachi's sharingan genjutsu, and at this point could pheasibly counter tsukiyomi. also keep in mind if tsukiyomi is involved, so is Kamui, which is the end of Itachi's head being connected to his body

all reasoning supports Kakashi at this point in his development as a sharingan user (arguably the second greatest ever to live after Madara, and he could possibly surpass his abilities by further developing Kamui to teleport himself), Kakashi can counter Itachi's sharingan genjutsu

[Kuroda Taishi]

I know you agree with me but that's actually not true.


Clone explosion is a ninjutsu.


Crow clones are a Genjutsu.
Exploding Clones are a Ninjutsu.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Crow clones are a Genjutsu.
Exploding Clones are a Ninjutsu.

I'm pretty sure the crows can be used for genjutsu but the technique itself is just another clone technique. I remember one person used it at the end of the Hidan and Kakuzu fight, forget who it was though, he was some fodder. I'm pretty sure it was a ninjutsu.

Also the Naruto wiki says it's a ninjutsu:

[Tourune]

Crow clones are a Genjutsu



When? Chapter and page # please




Same as above.
Naruto manga chapter 260

[Bangatron]

Itachi catching Kakashi in genjutsu is very unlikely; they already fought at the begining of shippuden, and he couldnt do it, and the clone has the same genjutsu. Sasuke who did not even have MS broke through his genjutsu, and Kakashi's sharingan is considerably more powerful than Sasuke's was. just by attaining mangekyo Sharingan, is should be obvious that Kakashi's base sharingan is of the highest level. Itachi cannot catch Kakashi in genjutsu, as Kakashi can either avoid it through clones, and having an advanced sharingan himself, he can simply look into Itachi's eyes and counter. Itachi had to briefly close his eyes and essentially flinch at the power of early shippuden Kakashi's sharingan. Kakashi's sharingan is fast enought ot track susano arrows, lightening, and any moving objuect displayed thus far in narutoverse, and in PART ONE he somewhat withstood tsukiyomi, and did not fear tsukiyomi at all at the begining of shippuden. by all reasoning, Kakashi can see through and counter Itachi's sharingan genjutsu, and at this point could pheasibly counter tsukiyomi. also keep in mind if tsukiyomi is involved, so is Kamui, which is the end of Itachi's head being connected to his body

all reasoning supports Kakashi at this point in his development as a sharingan user (arguably the second greatest ever to live after Madara, and he could possibly surpass his abilities by further developing Kamui to teleport himself), Kakashi can counter Itachi's sharingan genjutsu
That was 30% Itachi and he still got caught.

Sasuke couldn't break out of Itachi's Genjutsu that easily and Sasuke's Sharingan is better than Kakashi's.

[Tourune]

How will Crow Genjutsu kill kakashi when It didnt Kill Naruto?

[colorles]

That was 30% Itachi and he still got caught.

Sasuke couldn't break out of Itachi's Genjutsu that easily and Sasuke's Sharingan is better than Kakashi's.

30% Itachi has the same genjutsu just 30% chakra, and Itachi caught a shadow clone in genjutsu; yeah, Itachi's sharingan was fooled by Kakashi's expert shadow clone combo's, which come from is sharigan. Itachi has not chance of catching kakashi's actual body in genjutsu; even in part one with a much weaker Kakashi compare to now, he felt compelled to use tsukiyomi; if an simple genjutsu would have worked on him, Itachi would have used it

absolutely nothing supports that Sasuke's sharingan is better than kakashi's, at all. Kakashi has the better MS, Kamui, which is just like Madara but slightley less developed due to his much younger age and less experience still. bloodlusted Kakashi and Kamui=no head for Sasuke. with both base sharingans, Kakashi's is fast enough to react to asura's missles with ease, find counter ways to get through shinra tensei (somthing that totaly pwned SM Narutoin like one shot once Deva got shinra tensei back), track a shirna tensei powered nail coming at him, track and intercept lightning and lightening based attacks on a few occasion, track susano arrows, and fool itachi with clones even in part one, and again in shippuden, and also fool Deva pain with clones and combo's, all of which come from the sharingan. he was also toying with an enraged, susano arrow spamming sasuke, and it should be noted that Raikage was scared to the point of shaking of being assasinated by Kakashi in chaptet 457 i believe. Kakashi's sharingan if anything at this point is on a level above both Sasuke's and Itachis, and with Kamui is the closest thing Madara has to a rival, and Kakashi can easily continue to improve Kamui to madara's level

[J-Sun Tasogare]

How will Crow Genjutsu kill kakashi when It didnt Kill Naruto?
He gets caught then Itachi burns him alive or cuts off his head.

[colorles]

He gets caught then Itachi burns him alive or cuts off his head.

you completely disregard a quality point of Tourune

shame on you sir:ugeek:

[gama-sennin]

Chapter no. 257 pages 9 and 10 are enough to say that kakashi no longer needs to worry about Itachi's sharingan based genjutsu (non-MS).

With genjutsu out of the way Itachi has no feats to trouble Kakashi in nin-jutsu related battle. If Itachi uses any fire jutsu then kakashi can avoid it by using earth or beat it using water.

Kakashi wins this one due to sheer number of known feats as opposed to only few from Itachi.

[Mr. Dr.]

How will Crow Genjutsu kill kakashi when It didnt Kill Naruto?

Itachi wasn't bloodlusted. He could have killed Naruto if he wanted to.

[Kuroda Taishi]

That other person is not Itachi. It is a Jutsu that uses crows. It is not the same as Itachi's Jutsu.

Show me feats that show Itachi not using Crow Clone as a Genjutsu.

[gama-sennin]

That other person is not Itachi. It is a Jutsu that uses crows. It is not the same as Itachi's Jutsu.

Show me feats that show Itachi not using Crow Clone as a Genjutsu.


chapter 367 page no. 4,5 and 14. Here, Itachi has used crow clones as simple shadow replication(nin-jutsu).

[Miles Edgeworth]

Was just about to post but gama beat me to it.

Chapter 366 pg. 14 also clearly shows it as a ninjutsu and not a genjutsu.

[Kuroda Taishi]

chapter 367 page no. 4,5 and 14. Here, Itachi has used crow clones as simple shadow replication(nin-jutsu).

4+5 show me nothing. There was a crow on his shoulder and then it flew away.


14 however does show that he can use it as a ninjutsu.

[gama-sennin]

4+5 show me nothing. There was a crow on his shoulder and then it flew away.


14 however does show that he can use it as a ninjutsu.

Actually you are making a mistake here. The pages 4 and 5 show that Itachi has not used any gen-jutsu. It is a normal shadow clone with crows as a medium kindaa like water clone or lightning clone. This crow clone is a nin-jutsu which can be used for any other techs including gen-jutsu.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Anyways use the search button Tourune this has been done 1,000 times and Kakashi wins with Kamui if he doesn't have that Itachi wins.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Actually you are making a mistake here. The pages 4 and 5 show that Itachi has not used any gen-jutsu. It is a normal shadow clone with crows as a medium kindaa like water clone or lightning clone. This crow clone is a nin-jutsu which can be used for any other techs including gen-jutsu.

Pages 4 and 5 show nothing. Period.

A crow clone and a shadow clone are 2 different things. A crow clone is made of crows. A shadow clone is made of pure chakra.

[The 1st Hokage]

The Narutopedia classifies it as a bunshinjutsu and a ninjutsu. It is the same thing as a shadow clone, it just uses less chakra.

[Kuroda Taishi]

The Narutopedia classifies it as a bunshinjutsu and a ninjutsu. It is the same thing as a shadow clone, it just uses less chakra.

Good for Narutopedia. Why the heck should I care what they say? It is more similar to a Water clone as it uses the crows to make it's form like the water clone uses the water to make it's form.

[Akatsuki X]

you completely disregard a quality point of Tourune

shame on you sir:ugeek:

There's nothing to regard concerning quaility points of Tourune considering that they are non-existent.

[gama-sennin]

Good for Narutopedia. Why the heck should I care what they say? It is more similar to a Water clone as it uses the crows to make it's form like the water clone uses the water to make it's form.

But you have actually proved here that crow clone is a ninjutsu. The crow clone has a physical presence which is formed by using crows as a medium.

[colorles]

just go read my ealier post's

you can contiue posting if you want, but this topic was decided when i decided to post. Kakashi vs Itachi threads interest me, as i feel its a great matchup, and often Kakashi is underated

[Kuroda Taishi]

But you have actually proved here that crow clone is a ninjutsu. The crow clone has a physical presence which is formed by using crows as a medium.

Your post is pointless. I already agreed that it can be a ninjutsu or a genjutsu.