Kid Buu vs. Janemba

[Tourune]

Location: Earth

Restrictions: None

Distance: 90 Meters

Acceptions: Equal Speed

P.S. this is skinny Janemba NOT the fat one

[The 1st Hokage]

Kamehameha+Regen. Honestly Tourune, why do you make threads like these?

[Kuroda Taishi]

He doesn't understand how powerful characters are, so he just puts random people that he likes together.

[Tourune]

He doesn't understand how powerful characters are, so he just puts random people that he likes together.
I dont even like DBZ. i just remember Goku going SS3 in both his fights with them and decided to put them in a fight

[rose93]

ahhh >.<
I dont remember DBZ that much.

[The 1st Hokage]

I dont even like DBZ. i just remember Goku going SS3 in both his fights with them and decided to put them in a fight
So, even though you know nothing on either, you are going to make a thread that is an omnirape?
ahhh >.<
I dont remember DBZ that much.
I'll take care of this one Kuroda. xD

You need to post feats or this will be considered spam. Just saying you don't know who wins is stil considered spam in the BG.

[Narutorious]

Kamehameha+Regen. Honestly Tourune, why do you make threads like these?

Not so fast, Ssj3 Goku(full power) could had defeated Kid Buu, Goku was able to reach full power in the afterlife when he was dead, which was his status when he fought Janemba and lost.

[Mr. Dr.]

Not so fast, Ssj3 Goku(full power) could had defeated Kid Buu, Goku was able to reach full power in the afterlife when he was dead, which was his status when he fought Janemba and lost.

The problem with that logic is that Full Power SSJ3 Goku probably couldn't have beaten Kid Buu especially not with zero aid.

[Narutorious]

The problem with that logic is that Full Power SSJ3 Goku probably couldn't have beaten Kid Buu especially not with zero aid.

Well, he said he could, why would he just say it if he couldn't?

[The 1st Hokage]

Not so fast, Ssj3 Goku(full power) could had defeated Kid Buu, Goku was able to reach full power in the afterlife when he was dead, which was his status when he fought Janemba and lost.
lolwut?

Kid Buu was owning SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta at the same time.

[Narutorious]

lolwut?

Kid Buu was owning SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta at the same time.

He was "owning" Ssj3 Goku because he wasn't a full power, Goku stated himself he could kill him at full power.

[The 1st Hokage]

He was "owning" Ssj3 Goku because he wasn't a full power, Goku stated himself he could kill him at full power.
To bad Goku was wrong. Kid Buu destroyed multiple planets, then regened therefor he was not technically 100% either from using so much energy. The attack Kid Buu used>Spirit bomb

[Narutorious]

To bad Goku was wrong. Kid Buu destroyed multiple planets, then regened therefor he was not technically 100% either from using so much energy. The attack Kid Buu used>Spirit bomb
I'm going by what was stated in the manga. You just made something up, there is no evidence that Kid Buu lost energy destroying planet & regenerating, which appears to not take anything out of him at all, do you have anything to back this up? Saying that Goku was wrong is like saying Toriyama is wrong.

[The 1st Hokage]

I'm going by what was stated in the manga. You just made something up, there is no evidence that Kid Buu lost energy destroying planet & regenerating, which appears to not take anything out of him at all, do you have anything to back this up? Saying that Goku was wrong is like saying Toriyama is wrong.
And saying I'm wrong is like saying Dudemeister's wrong. He's gonna be right anyway. (I'm Dudemeister's servant. :|)

So destroying multiple planets and regening did not show effect because Buu has a whole helluva lot more stamina than Goku (proof) . Buu was blitzing both Goku and Vegeta (proof). Buu was easily busting planets then regen-ing so he can tank what Goku throws and still regen (proof). Now, Goku wasn't 100% from what exactly? After eating a senzu bean like he did, he should be atleast 90%.

[Narutorious]

And saying I'm wrong is like saying Dudemeister's wrong. He's gonna be right anyway. (I'm Dudemeister's servant. :|)
What does that mean to me?

So destroying multiple planets and regening did not show effect because Buu has a whole helluva lot more stamina than Goku (proof).
It's obvious that Kid Buu has more stamina than Goku, hence why Goku couldn't continue the fight, but stamina doesn't determine the stronger of the 2. And again you haven't prove that destroying planets & regenerating took an amount of energy out of Buu.

Buu was blitzing both Goku and Vegeta (proof).
Goku did the same to him, which blitzing is speed, not power. And Vegeta is much weaker than Kid Buu.

Buu was easily busting planets then regen-ing so he can tank what Goku throws and still regen (proof).
Frieza can destroy a planet, do you really think destroying planets would take much out of Buu? And again you haven't shown evidences that destroying planets & regenerating took an amount of energy out of Buu.

Now, Goku wasn't 100% from what exactly? After eating a senzu bean like he did, he should be atleast 90%.
Goku never even ate a Senzu Bean since Majin Buu was release. And Goku's living body couldn't handle Ssj3 at full power.

---

With that being said, I'm talking about actual proof, such as statements from the manga, those example you gave weren't solid proof at all, you just gave your personal opinion instead of actual facts.

[The 1st Hokage]

What does that mean to me?


It's obvious that Kid Buu has more stamina than Goku, hence why Goku couldn't continue the fight, but stamina doesn't determine the stronger of the 2. And again you haven't prove that destroying planets & regenerating took an amount of energy out of Buu. He used Ki energy, to create the attack. 'Nuff said.


Goku did the same to him, which blitzing is speed, not power. And Vegeta is much weaker than Kid Buu.
Kid Buu was shown to be faster ands tronger than Goku.

Frieza can destroy a planet, do you really think destroying planets would take much out of Buu? And again you haven't shown evidences that destroying planets & regenerating took an amount of energy out of Buu.
Frieza's attack took 5 minutes to destroy the planet. Buu's attack did it alot faster.


Goku never even ate a Senzu Bean since Majin Buu was release. And Goku's living body couldn't handle Ssj3 at full power.

It was stated by Goku that it was harder to withstand SSJ3 form in otherworld.
---

With that being said, I'm talking about actual proof, such as statements from the manga, those example you gave weren't solid proof at all, you just gave your personal opinion instead of actual facts. Proof isn't what's said, proof it what was done, as in feats.
The red.

[Narutorious]

He used Ki energy, to create the attack. 'Nuff said.

And do you know how much energy does it take Kid Buu to destroys planet, he wasn't even a slight bit tire afterwards.

Kid Buu was shown to be faster ands tronger than Goku.
A Ssj3 Goku who wasn't a full power.

Frieza's attack took 5 minutes to destroy the planet. Buu's attack did it alot faster.
Does it matter? Buu's power is far greater, it will take a lot less out of him to destroy a planet. Also, Frieza stated that he held back too much power & he estimated it will blow up in 5 minutes, he could had destroyed it instantly.

It was stated by Goku that it was harder to withstand SSJ3 form in otherworld
You need to read the manga again. Goku stated that he was able to withstand Ssj3 better in the other world while he was dead, & that his living body must not have the ability to handle it.

Proof isn't what's said, proof it what was done, as in feats.
And there were no major feats.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Just wondering why Goku saying that he could kill someone at his best somehow officially makes it true.

With that logic, I can say anyone who disagrees with me is wrong solely because they disagree. Does that alone suddenly become a sort of fact solely because I say it?

I don't care if Goku said that he could kill Buu at his best. Buu was trashing him, and Goku needed dragon balls and the plot to save him. Honestly Goku would've been stomped had Buu not been killed by the plot. Goku's only bet was a plot-induced Spirit Bomb, and it was convenient that the dragon balls allowed him to use it. If it was a straight up fight, Goku would get stomped if he tried using SB.

Back to the original topic, I don't recall Janemba's feats too well, but I'm pretty sure Buu had more impressive power and regen helps. I'd say Kid Buu takes this, although if anybody has any impressive feats from Janemba that would make a difference then I would like to know since I haven't seen Fusion Reborn in who knows how long.

[The 1st Hokage]

Just to point this out. Narutorious, do you think Cell can blow up the whole solar system because he said he could in the manga?

[Narutorious]

Just to point this out. Narutorious, do you think Cell can blow up the whole solar system because he said he could in the manga?

He can, remember he has the Instant transmission after he self-destruct, he said he will go planet to planet destroying each.

Just wondering why Goku saying that he could kill someone at his best somehow officially makes it true.
Because what would be the point of Toriyama putting that in, just for the hell of it?

With that logic, I can say anyone who disagrees with me is wrong solely because they disagree. Does that alone suddenly become a sort of fact solely because I say it?
It's 1 thing to disagree with some1, it's another to disagree with the story.

I don't care if Goku said that he could kill Buu at his best. Buu was trashing him, and Goku needed dragon balls and the plot to save him.
You're not Toriyama, so majority of ppl wouldn't care whether you care or not, if you read the manga then you would understand the situation & what had happen in the story.

Honestly Goku would've been stomped had Buu not been killed by the plot.
Same thing could be say for Buu in many situations. Vegeta & Goku could had fuse again, but they didn't. Goku could had been able to handle Ssj3 at full power & kill Buu, but he couldn't. Gohan, Trunks, & Goten could had lived, but they didn't. All because of the plot.

Goku's only bet was a plot-induced Spirit Bomb, and it was convenient that the dragon balls allowed him to use it.
As I stated above, plot allows a lot of things.

If it was a straight up fight, Goku would get stomped if he tried using SB.
What happen happened, plot or not, it happen.

[The 1st Hokage]

He can, remember he has the Instant transmission after he self-destruct, he said he will go planet to planet destroying each.
No, he said he can "Blow up the whole solar system with this 1 attack!!!!!!"

[Narutorious]

No, he said he can "Blow up the whole solar system with this 1 attack!!!!!!"

Not in the original manga, if I remember correctly he only said that on the FUNImation version, which I don't take seriously.

[The 1st Hokage]

Not in the original manga, if I remember correctly he only said that on the FUNImation version, which I don't take seriously.
I'm pretty sure he said it in the original manga as well...

[Miles Edgeworth]

He can, remember he has the Instant transmission after he self-destruct, he said he will go planet to planet destroying each.


Because what would be the point of Toriyama putting that in, just for the hell of it?


It's 1 thing to disagree with some1, it's another to disagree with the story.


You're not Toriyama, so majority of ppl wouldn't care whether you care or not, if you read the manga then you would understand the situation & what had happen in the story.


Same thing could be say for Buu in many situations. Vegeta & Goku could had fuse again, but they didn't. Goku could had been able to handle Ssj3 at full power & kill Buu, but he couldn't. Gohan, Trunks, & Goten could had lived, but they didn't. All because of the plot.


As I stated above, plot allows a lot of things.


What happen happened, plot or not, it happen.

Proof or it didn't happen. A lot of arrogant people said that they would kill Goku with no difficulty, look what happened. Suppose they didn't fight, does that mean that they could've been stronger because there wasn't proof otherwise? I could say the same thing as you and it would lead nowhere.

So Goku claiming crap that he never proved to do is somehow canon story logic? Doubtful, utterly doubtful.

And you're not Toriyama either so your point is just as pointless as mine. The difference between our arguments is that I'm not trying to use no limits fallacies to claim Goku to be stronger than he really is.

Actually I did read the manga, and just because you disagree doesn't mean I haven't. Even if Goku was at full power and had unlimited stamina, he would not have killed Buu, only be able to slightly fight him off before Buu decides to actually kill the guy by blowing up the planet and letting Goku die.

Of course Vegito could have killed Buu, who said otherwise? Prove that SSJ3 Goku could actually kill Buu, and by prove I mean show something that Goku could actually use without someone helping him to give him an actual chance.

Plot allows Goku to win pretty much all of his fights, or at the least survive them.

So you're saying that Goku is stronger than Buu because he got boosted by the Dragon Balls and suddenly got enough energy to kill Buu with Spirit Bomb, which somehow worked despite the fact that SSJ Goku was not pure enough to use it in the first place? Do you honestly believe there is nothing wrong with that situation?

[The 1st Hokage]

He can, remember he has the Instant transmission after he self-destruct, he said he will go planet to planet destroying each.
This is not what I meant.


Because what would be the point of Toriyama putting that in, just for the hell of it? I can write a story with me as a character. If I say I'm FTL and a Universe buster will that make it true?

It's 1 thing to disagree with some1, it's another to disagree with the story No, it is okay to disagree with the story if the story controdicts shown feats.



You're not Toriyama, so majority of ppl wouldn't care whether you care or not, if you read the manga then you would understand the situation & what had happen in the story. I'm pretty damn sure that Edgeworth has read and understood the manga perfectly fine.


Same thing could be say for Buu in many situations. Vegeta & Goku could had fuse again, but they didn't. Goku could had been able to handle Ssj3 at full power & kill Buu, but he couldn't. Gohan, Trunks, & Goten could had lived, but they didn't. All because of the plot. Vegeta's saiyan pride and plot, but Vegito is irrelevent.

As I stated above, plot allows a lot of things.Such as Goku or the Z-Fighters always winning.

What happen happened, plot or not, it happen. But feats disagree with what happened.

[Narutorious]

I'm pretty sure he said it in the original manga as well...
I've Re-check, no it wasn't. He said he'll destroyed the solar system, but not in 1 attack. Besides that, there is a difference between how Cell & Goku said it. Goku said it just making a statement to Vegeta, Cell said it as an exaggerating statement, listen to the tones on how they said it.

Proof or it didn't happen.
I can say the same towards you.

A lot of arrogant people said that they would kill Goku with no difficulty, look what happened.
Keyword being ARROGANT, Goku isn't arrogant, except when he's Ssj4 and that's not Toriyama's work.

Suppose they didn't fight, does that mean that they could've been stronger because there wasn't proof otherwise? I could say the same thing as you and it would lead nowhere.
I don't do what ifs, and no you can't say the same because there has been statements stating otherwise by the aurthor, you however are just stating your opinions with no evidences what so ever.

So Goku claiming crap that he never proved to do is somehow canon story logic? Doubtful, utterly doubtful.
I'll take the aurthor's word over some kid anyday.

And you're not Toriyama either so your point is just as pointless as mine.
Pointless to say that, I agree with the aurthor, you are trying to prove otherwise.

The difference between our arguments is that I'm not trying to use no limits fallacies to claim Goku to be stronger than he really is.
You mean besides actual statements & you using what evidences exactly?

Actually I did read the manga, and just because you disagree doesn't mean I haven't.
Have you really? Because you act like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the manga.

Even if Goku was at full power and had unlimited stamina, he would not have killed Buu, only be able to slightly fight him off before Buu decides to actually kill the guy by blowing up the planet and letting Goku die.
Unforutunately, we will never know that since it didn't have that way, saying Goku wouldn't be able to kill him when the aurthor stated otherwise is your opinion. KaioshinKai(the planet) could not be destroyed, so Buu destroying the planet is a useless theory.

Of course Vegito could have killed Buu, who said otherwise?
You miss the point, you keep using this plot excuse, so I was giving you examples that the plot went in Kid Buu's favor a lot.

Prove that SSJ3 Goku could actually kill Buu, and by prove I mean show something that Goku could actually use without someone helping him to give him an actual chance.
I don't need to prove something that was stated, it's you that need to prove that he couldn't since it's an opinion.

Plot allows Goku to win pretty much all of his fights, or at the least survive them.
And plot allowed Kid Buu to last as long as he did.

So you're saying that Goku is stronger than Buu because he got boosted by the Dragon Balls and suddenly got enough energy to kill Buu with Spirit Bomb
No, that have nothing to do with Goku's strength at all, Goku's energy wasn't stable enough to control the Spirit Bomb, the Dragon just restore his energy, which gave him control of the Spirit Bomb again. And this had nothing to do with a full power Ssj3.

which somehow worked despite the fact that SSJ Goku was not pure enough to use it in the first place?
That's only the movies.

I can write a story with me as a character. If I say I'm FTL and a Universe buster will that make it true?
If you write it in your story, sure, it's yours.

I'm pretty damn sure that Edgeworth has read and understood the manga perfectly fine.
But I'm sure I read it more than him, I own every volume & have own it before most people on this forum was even born, I've been watching the Dragonball anime since 1989.

Vegeta's saiyan pride and plot, but Vegito is irrelevent.
Wrong, Goku didn't want to fuse either since Kid Buu didn't have anyone in him, and Vegito isn't irrelevent at all, plot made them not fuse.

Such as Goku or the Z-Fighters always winning.
Doesn't change anything.

But feats disagree with what happened
What feats exactly?

[The 1st Hokage]

I've Re-check, no it wasn't. He said he'll destroyed the solar system, but not in 1 attack. Besides that, there is a difference between how Cell & Goku said it. Goku said it just making a statement to Vegeta, Cell said it as an exaggerating statement, listen to the tones on how they said it.
No, he was serious. Since hew said it in the manga he can destroy the Solar System with a Kamehameha.

I can say the same towards you.Yet he give's feats and not "The author's words"



Keyword being ARROGANT, Goku isn't arrogant, except when he's Ssj4 and that's not Toriyama's work.
So now Gku is smart enough to know who he can and cannot defeat? Wow, he must of shown some pretty amazing feats to do that.


I don't do what ifs, and no you can't say the same because there has been statements stating otherwise by the aurthor, you however are just stating your opinions with no evidences what so ever.
Evidence in the BG is feats. Unless you provide something other than a few words on a piece of paper your arguement meens nothing.


I'll take the aurthor's word over some kid anyday.
I'll translate. "I have no feats or proof whatsoever to prove my arguement, so I'll just go with this"


Pointless to say that, I agree with the aurthor, you are trying to prove otherwise.
See above

You mean besides actual statements & you using what evidences exactly?
A statement means nothing without feats to back it up.

Have you really? Because you act like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the manga.
Because he is not using "The author's word" he doesn't understand the manga?


Unforutunately, we will never know that since it didn't have that way, saying Goku wouldn't be able to kill him when the aurthor stated otherwise is your opinion. KaioshinKai(the planet) could not be destroyed, so Buu destroying the planet is a useless theory.
Feats shows us who wins, not what the author decided to write. Big difference.


You miss the point, you keep using this plot excuse, so I was giving you examples that the plot went in Kid Buu's favor a lot.
And you keep using the "Author wrote it" excuse.


I don't need to prove something that was stated, it's you that need to prove that he couldn't since it's an opinion.
You've proved perfectly fine what was stasted, but you haven't proved who would win with feats.


And plot allowed Kid Buu to last as long as he did.
Purely opinion with no proof to back it up.


No, that have nothing to do with Goku's strength at all, Goku's energy wasn't stable enough to control the Spirit Bomb, the Dragon just restore his energy, which gave him control of the Spirit Bomb again. And this had nothing to do with a full power Ssj3.
You see, Goku needed a boost of energy to win. Not with his own power/stamia/speed



But I'm sure I read it more than him, I own every volume & have own it before most people on this forum was even born, I've been watching the Dragonball anime since 1989.

How many times you have read it is irrelivent since you cannot give us feats that prove you arguement.


Wrong, Goku didn't want to fuse either since Kid Buu didn't have anyone in him, and Vegito isn't irrelevent at all, plot made them not fuse.
Once again, Vegito is irrelivent .


Doesn't change anything.
Nice way to completely dodge what I said.

What feats exactly?Destroying multiple planets easily and regen-ing afterwords. Not being the slightest bit fatigued afterwards. Reacting too SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta.

[Miles Edgeworth]

I've Re-check, no it wasn't. He said he'll destroyed the solar system, but not in 1 attack. Besides that, there is a difference between how Cell & Goku said it. Goku said it just making a statement to Vegeta, Cell said it as an exaggerating statement, listen to the tones on how they said it.


I can say the same towards you.


Keyword being ARROGANT, Goku isn't arrogant, except when he's Ssj4 and that's not Toriyama's work.


I don't do what ifs, and no you can't say the same because there has been statements stating otherwise by the aurthor, you however are just stating your opinions with no evidences what so ever.


I'll take the aurthor's word over some kid anyday.


Pointless to say that, I agree with the aurthor, you are trying to prove otherwise.


You mean besides actual statements & you using what evidences exactly?


Have you really? Because you act like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the manga.


Unforutunately, we will never know that since it didn't have that way, saying Goku wouldn't be able to kill him when the aurthor stated otherwise is your opinion. KaioshinKai(the planet) could not be destroyed, so Buu destroying the planet is a useless theory.


You miss the point, you keep using this plot excuse, so I was giving you examples that the plot went in Kid Buu's favor a lot.


I don't need to prove something that was stated, it's you that need to prove that he couldn't since it's an opinion.


And plot allowed Kid Buu to last as long as he did.


No, that have nothing to do with Goku's strength at all, Goku's energy wasn't stable enough to control the Spirit Bomb, the Dragon just restore his energy, which gave him control of the Spirit Bomb again. And this had nothing to do with a full power Ssj3.


That's only the movies.


If you write it in your story, sure, it's yours.


But I'm sure I read it more than him, I own every volume & have own it before most people on this forum was even born, I've been watching the Dragonball anime since 1989.


Wrong, Goku didn't want to fuse either since Kid Buu didn't have anyone in him, and Vegito isn't irrelevent at all, plot made them not fuse.


Doesn't change anything.


What feats exactly?

Cell clearly stated that with his Kamehameha he could destroy a solar system.

Except I'm actually giving feats, all you're doing is claiming that one character's statement is canon. By your logic, Minato is top tier speed in Naruto just because people claim him to be fast.

Actually Goku's attitude has been shown to change when he goes into SSJ. That's why it has been stated he can't use Spirit Bomb in SSJ (without plot and Dragon balls), because he is no longer pure. He becomes a more violent, more overconfident warrior than in base. It doesn't matter whether the attitude is different, the fact remains.

You don't do what-ifs because you know they would prove your statement wrong completely. How am I not giving evidence? I've given more evidence than you and your "lol well Goku said so and it must be true" logic. You say what the author says is always true, so let's think about Naruto databooks for a second. Kishimoto says that Haku is light speed. He said it, does that mean it's true? Take some time to think about it for a minute.

And I'll take manga feats over some hyperbole any day. Feats or it didn't happen. Any attempt to say otherwise is utterly pointless.

How are Goku's statements the author's statements? You're just trying to say that Goku's words are suddenly law in that manga, despite the fact that they are not. You haven't given me a SINGLE feat that shows how Goku could defeat Buu in the slightest, while I've proven many ways that Buu trashes him.

Key word: Statement. Statements mean nothing without feats. Gotenks says a lot of things, are they all true just because he said so?

How would you know if I read the manga or not, do you suddenly know everything about me? Do you know my life? In fact you do not, I have read the manga and I have been a fan of Dragon Ball ever since I was a kid. So don't you go telling me that I don't know the manga when you can't even prove anything.

Your logic is that because Buu didn't blow up the planet, that he can't. What about the constant fighters who have been shown to trash Frieza, who can planet bust, that haven't done so? Gohan didn't demonstrate planet busting, but if he can't do it then nobody can. The dude is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, he never demonstrated planet busting because it would not help him in the slightest but any attempt to say he can't means you need proof.

The plot went in the protagonists' favor much more than Buu's. Show me one instance of Buu having plot on his side that can possibly trump having the dragon balls, prep time, and a group of people willing to give Goku energy for Spirit Bomb. Mr. Satan survived for one reason, to allow this part of the plot to happen. If there was no Vegeta, Goku wouldn't have been given prep. If there was no Mr. Satan, no energy for Spirit Bomb. No Dragon balls, Goku still would not have had the energy to win. So tell me, how exactly did Buu get cheap plot boosts?

Glad we agree, that just proves that Goku indeed lacked the energy to control SB and thus needed Dragon Balls to do it.

Do you really think we give a crap how long you've been watching it? You haven't proven you actually know the information, while I have given you constant feats that prove Goku has nothing on Kid Buu without major assistance. All you are doing is saying "Lol Goku said so, that makes it canon." when in fact that's all you have, no argument, no feats, no scans, NOTHING.

Actually if you read the manga you know that Goku wanted to merge again in case Buu was still there but Vegeta found it to be the perfect opportunity to avoid fusing again and ditched the earrings, and Goku reluctantly followed along.

So to get back to the original issue, with actual feats, scans, and evidence, without using some crap like Goku's words, show me how Goku actually kills Buu. Not in theory, with actual techniques.

[Narutorious]

No, he was serious. Since hew said it in the manga he can destroy the Solar System with a Kamehameha.
He was scaring Gohan at the time, hence exaggerating, as Cell said told Gohan in a normal tone, he will used Instant Transmission to go planet-to-planet and destroy each, he was being serious then, but like I said he doesn't even say that in the original version, I don't know about the american version.

Yet he give's feats and not "The author's words"
Again, what feats exactly, the only thing Kid Buu did was out last a Ssj3 Goku who wasn't at full power, and beat up Good Buu & Ssj2 Vegeta, who are much weaker than him.

So now Gku is smart enough to know who he can and cannot defeat? Wow, he must of shown some pretty amazing feats to do that.
Since when was Goku dumb when it comes to fighting? You make him sound like a novice. I think he will know how strong his opponent is.

Evidence in the BG is feats. Unless you provide something other than a few words on a piece of paper your arguement meens nothing.
Again, what evidences, you guys aren't providing evidence, I don't need to because I agree with what was stated in the manga, but you guys aren't providing anything, just stating opinions. If you go to court, who will the judge & jury believe, a concrete statement or someone's opinion ?

I'll translate. "I have no feats or proof whatsoever to prove my arguement, so I'll just go with this"
I'll translate, I have nothing better to say so I'll bash him instead

See above
Another pointless statement.

A statement means nothing without feats to back it up.
Even more so for assumptions & claims I'm afraid.

Because he is not using "The author's word" he doesn't understand the manga?
I'm going to say yes for he thought Goku shouldn't be able to use Spirit Bomb as a Ssj, which is non-canon material, but I'm sure he's a smart guy when it comes to the newer stuff like Naruto.

You see, Goku needed a boost of energy to win. Not with his own power/stamia/speed
Boost & restore are 2 different things, his energy was restore.

Feats shows us who wins, not what the author decided to write. Big difference.
What good are feats if there aren't any?

And you keep using the "Author wrote it" excuse.
Come up with something better please.

You've proved perfectly fine what was stasted, but you haven't proved who would win with feats.
What feats again?

Purely opinion with no proof to back it up.
Really? Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku again to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused. Gohan, Goten, & Trunks could had been saved and they could had defeat Kid Buu, but they died. Goku could had been able to reach full power at Ssj3, but he couldn't. Why did things happen this way? Because otherwise Kid Buu would be defeated too easily, plot.

How many times you have read it is irrelivent since you cannot give us feats that prove you arguement.
Same goes to you guys.

Nice way to completely dodge what I said.
You dodge it first by saying "Such as Goku or the Z-Fighters always winning." It doesn't change anything, plot allows a lot thing, such as Kid Buu living as long as he did.

Destroying multiple planets easily and regen-ing afterwords.
Regenerating is little to no effort for Buu, and Vegeta could destroy a planet in his first arc, should be a breeze for Buu.

Not being the slightest bit fatigued afterwards.
Exactly, so it wouldn't affect him what so ever.

Reacting too SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta
Ok so? It's not like he fought them both at the same time, that's not a feat.

[Miles Edgeworth]

He was scaring Gohan at the time, hence exaggerating, as Cell said told Gohan in a normal tone, he will used Instant Transmission to go planet-to-planet and destroy each, he was being serious then, but like I said he doesn't even say that in the original version, I don't know about the american version.


Again, what feats exactly, the only thing Kid Buu did was out last a Ssj3 Goku who wasn't at full power, and beat up Good Buu & Ssj2 Vegeta, who are much weaker than him.


Since when was Goku dumb when it comes to fighting? You make him sound like a novice. I think he will know how strong his opponent is.


Again, what evidences, you guys aren't providing evidence, I don't need to because I agree with what was stated in the manga, but you guys aren't providing anything, just stating opinions. If you go to court, who will the judge & jury believe, a concrete statement or someone's opinion ?


I'll translate, I have nothing better to say so I'll bash him instead


Another pointless statement.


Even more so for assumptions & claims I'm afraid.


I'm going to say yes for he thought Goku shouldn't be able to use Spirit Bomb as a Ssj, which is non-canon material, but I'm sure he's a smart guy when it comes to the newer stuff like Naruto.


Boost & restore are 2 different things, his energy was restore.


What good are feats if there aren't any?


Come up with something better please.


What feats again?


Really? Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku again to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused. Gohan, Goten, & Trunks could had been saved and they could had defeat Kid Buu, but they died. Goku could had been able to reach full power at Ssj3, but he couldn't. Why did things happen this way? Because otherwise Kid Buu would be defeated too easily, plot.


Same goes to you guys.


You dodge it first by saying "Such as Goku or the Z-Fighters always winning." It doesn't change anything, plot allows a lot thing, such as Kid Buu living as long as he did.


Regenerating is little to no effort for Buu, and Vegeta could destroy a planet in his first arc, should be a breeze for Buu.


Exactly, so it wouldn't affect him what so ever.


Ok so? It's not like he fought them both at the same time, that's not a feat.

And you know Goku wasn't exaggerating how?

The fact that SSJ3 Goku couldn't do crap to him and even when Goku used Spirit Bomb with the help of pretty much all the Earth he still couldn't kill Buu right away.

So Goku suddenly knows how strong his opponent is just because he sees them once? Your opinion doesn't mean anything if it proves nothing, how would Goku know how strong Kid Buu is? If he was strong enough to win then why did he need Spirit Bomb and tons of assistance to kill Buu?

How are we not providing evidence, all you're doing is relying on one character's word, claiming it to be the author's evidence when it is not, to assume Goku can defeat Buu. If you actually followed the BG rules you would know that feats are necessary here, and somebody saying something means nothing. Minato's FTG has been stated to be light speed, can you prove that? Statements without anything to back them up mean nothing. You claim that all we're saying is our opinion, it is YOUR opinion that one character desperately claiming he can still win means he's truly stronger.

So 1st Hokage saying what you're actually doing is bashing you? How did he insult you? If anybody is being insulting somebody it's you, saying that we don't know what we're talking about and that you're so much smarter when you're relying on no limits fallacies.

So that was my mistake, and? That still doesn't change your argument. People are not perfect and you certainly aren't any better than anybody else here. Stop boasting about how smart you are and actually prove that Goku can defeat Kid Buu and don't change the subject.

Do you even read the manga? For real? If you actually read it you know it's the other way around, GOKU wanted to fuse again but Vegeta denied, hating the idea of sharing the body of the one who he has despised throughout the series. Goku reluctantly crushed the Potara after Vegeta destroyed his own. I would show you the chapter and page myself but I can't find it because so few sites actually have the manga up anymore.

Plot allows people who can conveniently assist Goku to win to live. Now tell me, for the over 9000th time, in a straight up fight, how does Goku kill Buu? And don't change the subject.

Who cares if he didn't fight them at the same time, he most certainly could've, it's not like Vegeta could possibly have made a difference since Fat Buu lol'd at Majin Vegeta's suicide explosion.

[Shika-fiend]

Kid Buu PWNS everyone BUT Goku.

[Narutorious]

Cell clearly stated that with his Kamehameha he could destroy a solar system.
Again, not the ORIGINAL JAPANESE manga.

Except I'm actually giving feats, all you're doing is claiming that one character's statement is canon.
Kid Buu had no feats again.

By your logic, Minato is top tier speed in Naruto just because people claim him to be fast.
That manga isn't over though, things can change.

Actually Goku's attitude has been shown to change when he goes into SSJ. That's why it has been stated he can't use Spirit Bomb in SSJ (without plot and Dragon balls), because he is no longer pure. He becomes a more violent, more overconfident warrior than in base. It doesn't matter whether the attitude is different, the fact remains.
But all that was said in Movie 7 when he was fighting Super Android 13, no such thing was ever said in the manga, which makes it invalid.

You don't do what-ifs because you know they would prove your statement wrong completely.
Wrong, what-ifs could lead to anything.

How am I not giving evidence?
Because you have giving me nothing, you're just giving feats which aren't even really feats.

I've given more evidence than you and your "lol well Goku said so and it must be true" logic.
Bashing huh?

You say what the author says is always true, so let's think about Naruto databooks for a second. Kishimoto says that Haku is light speed. He said it, does that mean it's true? Take some time to think about it for a minute.
You want to use databooks? We both know that the databooks can be inaccurate compare to the manga at times, including the fact that Kishimoto have his people work on the databooks, he doesn't take the time to work on it himself.

And I'll take manga feats over some hyperbole any day. Feats or it didn't happen. Any attempt to say otherwise is utterly pointless.
I would agree if there actually were feats, but there aren't anything.

How are Goku's statements the author's statements?
What kind of question is that?

You're just trying to say that Goku's words are suddenly law in that manga, despite the fact that they are not.
No, but Goku has enough experience to sense how strong his opponent is.

You haven't given me a SINGLE feat that shows how Goku could defeat Buu in the slightest, while I've proven many ways that Buu trashes him.
No you haven't besides that he could destroyed the planet, which is invalid on KaioshinKai.

Key word: Statement. Statements mean nothing without feats. Gotenks says a lot of things, are they all true just because he said so?

Gotenks says a lot of things out of arrogance which is obvious, Goku wasn't being arrogant at the time.

How would you know if I read the manga or not, do you suddenly know everything about me? Do you know my life? In fact you do not, I have read the manga and I have been a fan of Dragon Ball ever since I was a kid. So don't you go telling me that I don't know the manga when you can't even prove anything.
Act like it then, because you should know a lot if that's the case, but you'll giving details about how Goku shouldn't be able to use the Spirit Bomb as a Ssj, which hardcore fans like myself knows that just non-canon details. I didn't mean to upset you, but I won't take bashing from anyone no matter how popular a person may be on a forum.

Your logic is that because Buu didn't blow up the planet, that he can't. What about the constant fighters who have been shown to trash Frieza, who can planet bust, that haven't done so? Gohan didn't demonstrate planet busting, but if he can't do it then nobody can. The dude is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, he never demonstrated planet busting because it would not help him in the slightest but any attempt to say he can't means you need proof.
I have no idea what you are even talking about right here, the way that I'm reading it, this helps me & hurts you.

The plot went in the protagonists' favor much more than Buu's.
But it still doesn't change that the plot did help Kid Buu.

Show me one instance of Buu having plot on his side that can possibly trump having the dragon balls, prep time, and a group of people willing to give Goku energy for Spirit Bomb. Mr. Satan survived for one reason, to allow this part of the plot to happen. If there was no Vegeta, Goku wouldn't have been given prep. If there was no Mr. Satan, no energy for Spirit Bomb. No Dragon balls, Goku still would not have had the energy to win.
All that stuff wouldn't had matter if Goku & Vegeta fuse again to fight Kid Buu, all that stuff wouldn't had matter if Goku would had saved Gohan, Trunks & Goten, all that stuff wouldn't matter if Goku's living body would had been able to reach full power at Ssj3.

So tell me, how exactly did Buu get cheap plot boosts?
Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku again to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused. Gohan, Goten, & Trunks could had been saved and they could had defeat Kid Buu, but they died. Goku could had been able to reach full power at Ssj3, but he couldn't. Why did things happen this way? Because otherwise Kid Buu would be defeated too easily, plot.

Glad we agree, that just proves that Goku indeed lacked the energy to control SB and thus needed Dragon Balls to do it.
Never said he didn't.

When did I ever mention the movies?
The Spirit Bomb & Ssj stuff is only a movie thing.

Do you really think we give a crap how long you've been watching it? You haven't proven you actually know the information, while I have given you constant feats that prove Goku has nothing on Kid Buu without major assistance. All you are doing is saying "Lol Goku said so, that makes it canon." when in fact that's all you have, no argument, no feats, no scans, NOTHING.
More bashing...

Actually if you read the manga you know that Goku wanted to merge again in case Buu was still there but Vegeta found it to be the perfect opportunity to avoid fusing again and ditched the earrings, and Goku reluctantly followed along.
Actually, all that was when Super Buu still had Gohan, Trunks, Goten, & Piccolo in him. I'm talking about against Kid Buu, East Kaioshin gave Goku & Vegeta some more earrings but Goku refused to fuse since Kid Buu wasn't fuse with anyone. If you actually read the manga you'll know that.

So to get back to the original issue, with actual feats, scans, and evidence, without using some crap like Goku's words, show me how Goku actually kills Buu. Not in theory, with actual techniques.
Same could be said towards you, however, the difference is I'm agreeing with a statement in a manga & you're not, there are no feats, scans, or evidences to say that Kid Buu can defeat a full power Ssj3 Goku.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Kid Buu PWNS everyone BUT Goku.

Contrary to popular belief, there are indeed characters who can defeat Kid Buu. And Goku is NOT one of them.

Vegito, without a doubt, uberstomps Kid Buu for very obvious reasons.

Gohan can defeat Kid Buu pretty handily, seeing as how he was able to fight off Super Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed.

Super Buu can defeat Kid Buu as well. I'm not so sure about Base, but I'm positive Buutenks can put up a good fight and Buuhan would definitely stomp Kid Buu with the combined power of many, many strong fighters, one of which can already solo Kid Buu as I listed above.

Perhaps there are more but those are all I remember.

And as I already stated, Goku cannot kill Kid Buu on his own. He needed way too much help to win. Goku can fight him off, but not actually kill him. He had to have the Dragon Balls, prep time, and assistance to really do anything to Buu.

[The 1st Hokage]

He was scaring Gohan at the time, hence exaggerating, as Cell said told Gohan in a normal tone, he will used Instant Transmission to go planet-to-planet and destroy each, he was being serious then, but like I said he doesn't even say that in the original version, I don't know about the american version.
So you are assuming that Cell was exagerating when he said that while charging his Kamehameha. Empty assumption is empty.


Again, what feats exactly, the only thing Kid Buu did was out last a Ssj3 Goku who wasn't at full power, and beat up Good Buu & Ssj2 Vegeta, who are much weaker than him.
Outlasting SSJ3 Goku, Fat Buu, and SSJ2 Vegeta is more of a feat than you let it seem.

SSJ2 Vegeta<Fat Buu< SSJ3 Goku


Since when was Goku dumb when it comes to fighting? You make him sound like a novice. I think he will know how strong his opponent is.
Once again, who is Goku to say who he can and cannot defeat? The Z-Fighters have never technically lost a battle, so plot allows the good guys to win again. What feat has Goku given that will give him the win? That's all I want to here.


Again, what evidences, you guys aren't providing evidence, I don't need to because I agree with what was stated in the manga, but you guys aren't providing anything, just stating opinions. If you go to court, who will the judge & jury believe, a concrete statement or someone's opinion ?
Court and debating are extremely different. Don't try to mix the 2.


I'll translate, I have nothing better to say so I'll bash him instead
Out of all the DBZ charactrers, Goku and Vegeta are by far my favorite. I don't bash them. I debate fairly with everything they've done in mind.



Even more so for assumptions & claims I'm afraid.
It's not an assumption if I'm right.


I'm going to say yes for he thought Goku shouldn't be able to use Spirit Bomb as a Ssj, which is non-canon material, but I'm sure he's a smart guy when it comes to the newer stuff like Naruto.
lolwutfail. He'd 3/4 of the BG debater's ass in a debate.

Boost & restore are 2 different things, his energy was restore.
He could not win without his energy being restored. He does not have enough stamina to keep going like Kid Buu does. Kid Buu can outlast. He can tank or regen from whatever Goku has.

What good are feats if there aren't any?Speed, destructive power, stamina, durability. These are all feats Kid Buu have shown alot of.

What feats again? The one where he fought 3 different characters 1 by 1 without any sign of fatigue or damage.



Really? Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku again to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused. Gohan, Goten, & Trunks could had been saved and they could had defeat Kid Buu, but they died. Goku could had been able to reach full power at Ssj3, but he couldn't. Why did things happen this way? Because otherwise Kid Buu would be defeated too easily, plot.
Vegito could easily defeat Kid Buu, but Goku cannot.



You dodge it first by saying "Such as Goku or the Z-Fighters always winning." It doesn't change anything, plot allows a lot thing, such as Kid Buu living as long as he did.
That was a counter. I'm saying that any time the Z-Fighters win, it is always plot endused.



Regenerating is little to no effort for Buu, and Vegeta could destroy a planet in his first arc, should be a breeze for Buu.
Buu's best feat was destroying planets effortlessly. This is the part where common sense can be used to assume Kid Buu can do better than that.

Exactly, so it wouldn't affect him what so ever. You don't unbderstand how important stamina is in a fight. If you tired out in a race, and you run out of stamina, you lose. Plain and Simple



Ok so? It's not like he fought them both at the same time, that's not a feat.

It proves how much stamina he has. It also proves he can tank as much as Goku can throw at him.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Again, not the ORIGINAL JAPANESE manga.


Kid Buu had no feats again.


That manga isn't over though, things can change.


But all that was said in Movie 7 when he was fighting Super Android 13, no such thing was ever said in the manga, which makes it invalid.


Wrong, what-ifs could lead to anything.


Because you have giving me nothing, you're just giving feats which aren't even really feats.


Bashing huh?


You want to use databooks? We both know that the databooks can be inaccurate compare to the manga at times, including the fact that Kishimoto have his people work on the databooks, he doesn't take the time to work on it himself.


I would agree if there actually were feats, but there aren't anything.


What kind of question is that?


No, but Goku has enough experience to sense how strong his opponent is.


No you haven't besides that he could destroyed the planet, which is invalid on KaioshinKai.


Gotenks says a lot of things out of arrogance which is obviously, Goku wasn't being arrogant at the time.


Act like it then, because you should know a lot if that's the case, but you'll giving details about how Goku shouldn't be able to use the Spirit Bomb as a Ssj, which hardcore fans like myself knows that just non-canon details. I didn't mean to upset you, but I won't take bashing from anyone no matter how popular a person may be on a forum.


I have no idea what you are even talking about right here, the way that I'm reading it, this helps me & hurts you.


But it still doesn't change that the plot did help but


All that stuff wouldn't had matter if Goku & Vegeta fuse again to fight Kid Buu, all that stuff wouldn't had matter if Goku would had saved Gohan, Trunks & Goten, all that stuff wouldn't matter if Goku's living body would had been able to reach full power at Ssj3 Goku.


Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku again to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused. Gohan, Goten, & Trunks could had been saved and they could had defeat Kid Buu, but they died. Goku could had been able to reach full power at Ssj3, but he couldn't. Why did things happen this way? Because otherwise Kid Buu would be defeated too easily, plot.


Never said he didn't.


The Spirit Bomb & Ssj stuff is only a movie thing.


More bashing...


Actually, all that was when Super Buu still had Gohan, Trunks, Goten, & Piccolo in him. I'm talking about against Kid Buu, East Kaioshin gave Goku & Vegeta some more earrings but Goku refused to fuse since Kid Buu wasn't fuse with anyone. If you actually read the manga you'll know that.


Same could be said towards you, however, the difference is I'm agreeing with a statement in a manga & you're not, there are no feats, scans, or evidences to say that Kid Buu can defeat a full power Ssj3 Goku.

No feats being lol'ing at SSJ3 Goku and never getting injured in the slightest? Yeah, totally no feats there.

Never said they couldn't, but I'm talking about how things stand, right here, at the current moment.

I already admitted that was my mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that Goku still can't defeat Kid Buu.

So the fact that Goku could do nothing to Kid Buu without assistance isn't a feat? You know, downplaying actual feats isn't exactly debating.

Is saying that someone is bashing your excuse whenever someone straight up tells you that they disagree with you? Show me how I'm insulting you in the slightest. All I'm doing is showing that you're the one trying to insult all the other people. You say you know the manga better than me, yet you can't prove it in a single way. Well, now's your chance to prove it.

And we both know that character statements can be inaccurate at times as well. It's just that some of us refuse to admit it.

What kind of answer is that? You can't even answer the question properly. Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's true. Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him, but it took quite some time before anything like that became remotely true.

Experience doesn't prove that Goku knows Kid Buu's true power and can effectively counter it.

He didn't destroy the planet because he actually wanted to fight the guy, if I wanted a good fight I wouldn't just nuke the planet, I would go face to face with my opponent and have a good brawl.

Who said Goku was arrogant, he was just wrong.

For the billionth time, I admitted that was a MISTAKE. Yet again, it still doesn't change the validity of your argument in the slightest. Stop trying to point out everybody's flaws when they've already admitted them.

How so?

The plot helped Goku much more than it helped Kid Buu. Plot helps everybody to an extent so using that logic doesn't prove anything to show that Kid Buu had an unfair advantage. Let's suppose that Vegito was formed and killed Kid Buu instantly, that's very nice but that doesn't prove Goku could do the same.

Those what if scenarios mean nothing regarding whether Goku can actually kill Kid Buu.

Again, it's the other way around, Vegeta refused to combine with Goku again. Why in the world would Vegeta want to and not Goku? If anything, Vegeta was the one who showed complete reluctance to the idea of fusing. Them not combining is not nearly as much plot as Goku's advantages, because it's actually logical that in character Vegeta would never fuse with Goku unless the situation was extremely desperate, which it was beforehand.

Again, how is that bashing?

That's very nice, but chances are Kid Buu could easily have attacked while they stopped to even make that discussion and the only reason that he didn't was because of plot. So in short, that scenario is as much plot for Goku as it was for Buu, if not even more. Stop saying that I haven't read the manga, that trick is getting old and it's getting really desperate.

Because a statement made by a character who can't prove that he can actually do that is canon now, right? Does Goku saying he can defeat somebody suddenly make it more canon than somebody else saying the same just because he's Goku? Does Goku suddenly get the benefit of the doubt because he's Goku for the convenience of your argument? Sorry but things don't work that way here.

[Narutorious]

And you know Goku wasn't exaggerating how?
Did it appear he was, you read the manga, right?

The fact that SSJ3 Goku couldn't do crap to him and even when Goku used Spirit Bomb with the help of pretty much all the Earth he still couldn't kill Buu right away.
What does that have to do with a full power Ssj3?

So Goku suddenly knows how strong his opponent is just because he sees them once?
Goku made this statement after he fought Kid Buu, how would he not know?

how would Goku know how strong Kid Buu is?

You do know they can sense power levels, right?

Your opinion doesn't mean anything if it proves nothing
Ditto.

If he was strong enough to win then why did he need Spirit Bomb and tons of assistance to kill Buu?
Man, are you sure you read the manga? Goku's living body couldn't handle Ssj3 at full power.

How are we not providing evidence, all you're doing is relying on one character's word, claiming it to be the author's evidence when it is not, to assume Goku can defeat Buu.
All you giving me is what he did, which isn't impressive for someone at that level of power, especially since he has a major advantage in stamina compare to Ssj3 Goku.

If you actually followed the BG rules you would know that feats are necessary here, and somebody saying something means nothing.
This isn't about the battlegrounds for me, it's about what true and what is not.

Minato's FTG has been stated to be light speed, can you prove that?
That could go either way, it could be exagerrating just saying he's fast.

Statements without anything to back them up mean nothing. You claim that all we're saying is our opinion, it is YOUR opinion that one character desperately claiming he can still win means he's truly stronger.

What's better? Statements without anything to back them up or Assumption without anything to back it up?

So 1st Hokage saying what you're actually doing is bashing you?
Because it is a form of bashing.

How did he insult you? If anybody is being insulting somebody it's you, saying that we don't know what we're talking about and that you're so much smarter when you're relying on no limits fallacies.
Bashing doesn't mean insult, it could be mocking as well, they're many ways to bash someone.

So that was my mistake, and? That still doesn't change your argument. People are not perfect and you certainly aren't any better than anybody else here.

Stop boasting about how smart you are and actually prove that Goku can defeat Kid Buu and don't change the subject.
I've never said anything about me being smart, and again I don't need to provide evidences, Goku fight Kid Buu, then states that he can beat him at full power, how more concrete can you get than that?

Do you even read the manga? For real? If you actually read it you know it's the other way around, GOKU wanted to fuse again but Vegeta denied, hating the idea of sharing the body of the one who he has despised throughout the series. Goku reluctantly crushed the Potara after Vegeta destroyed his own. I would show you the chapter and page myself but I can't find it because so few sites actually have the manga up anymore.
I know exactly what you're talking about, but that's not the period of time I was talking about.

Plot allows people who can conveniently assist Goku to win to live. Now tell me, for the over 9000th time, in a straight up fight, how does Goku kill Buu? And don't change the subject.
Maybe by a full power Kamehameha by a full power Ssj3 Goku, there's nothing to state that it couldn't happen.

Who cares if he didn't fight them at the same time, he most certainly could've, it's not like Vegeta could possibly have made a difference since Fat Buu lol'd at Majin Vegeta's suicide explosion.
1st Hokage making it sound like Kid Buu fought them both at the same time.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Did it appear he was, you read the manga, right?

Appearances mean absolutely nothing. And again, enough with the whole "did you read the manga?" thing because it's really getting old, the trick is getting boring.

What does that have to do with a full power Ssj3?

Full power SSJ3 hasn't demonstrated the ability to kill Buu. Goku may have been at 50% but getting twice his energy would still not help him to actually kill Buu. He hasn't demonstrated anything that Buu couldn't just dodge or recover from.

Goku made this statement after he fought Kid Buu, how would he not know?

The fact that Kid Buu didn't go berserk and just blow Goku up the way he easily could've done like all the other planets shows that Goku didn't face Buu's full onslalught.

You do know they can sense power levels, right?

You do know they can lower power levels, right? It's been a concept that existed since, like, the Saiyan Saga.

Ditto.

Except I've actually given proof.

Man, are you sure you read the manga? Goku's living body couldn't handle Ssj3 at full power.

Funny how you resort to that question whenever you can't think of anything else. Yes, I am well aware of that. That still doesn't change anything. SSJ3 Goku couldn't kill Janemba, and that was when he didn't have his live body. Kid Buu>Janemba.

All you giving me is what he did, which isn't impressive for someone at that level of power, especially since he has a major advantage in stamina compare to Ssj3 Goku.

Which is enough to defeat Goku. Stamina is an attribute of a fighter, don't try to downplay it just because it would be convenient for Goku. Not like Goku at full stamina could outmatch Kid Buu anyway.

This isn't about the battlegrounds for me, it's about what true and what is not.

And what someone claims is not necessarily the truth, you should know this.

That could go either way, it could be exagerrating just saying he's fast.

And Goku could just have easily been wrong about Buu.

What's better? Statements without anything to back them up or Assumption without anything to back it up?

How exactly are my arguments assumptions with nothing to back them up? Kid Buu tanked everything that Goku used, and even when Goku used Spirit Bomb, Buu was able to repel it until Goku got the Dragon Balls to help him. Nothing Goku does in a straight up fight will work on Buu.

Because it is a form of bashing.

You do realize that with that logic, I can say that you claiming others don't know what they're talking about is just as much bashing, no?

Bashing doesn't mean insult, it could be mocking as well, they're many ways to bash someone.

I'm not mocking you, I'm just saying things as they are.

I've never said anything about me being smart, and again I don't need to provide evidences, Goku fight Kid Buu, then states that he can beat him at full power, how more concrete can you get than that?

So you implying superiority by saying you know the manga better than me is not you acting smart? And again, you can't prove the statement, so therefore it's untrue. Now for a random analogy, I can say that someone was a murderer because of the way he acts and because he may have been involved in the case, but does that mean he's the murderer without evidence? Simple answer: No.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but that's not the period of time I was talking about.

Very nice, doesn't really change anything in terms of how Goku could actually, with canon feats, defeat Buu.

Maybe by a full power Kamehameha by a full power Ssj3 Goku, there's nothing to state that it couldn't happen.

Three options for Buu. Buu can, 1, attack Goku before he can unleash the Kamehameha, 2, dodge the Kamehameha which shouldn't be too hard to avoid considering Buu's speed, or 3, block the attack seeing as how he repelled Spirit Bomb for quite a while.

1st Hokage making it sound like Kid Buu fought them both at the same time.

Perhaps so, but he most likely could've done that.

[Narutorious]

Appearances mean absolutely nothing. And again, enough with the whole "did you read the manga?" thing because it's really getting old, the trick is getting boring.
I'll take that as a no.

Full power SSJ3 hasn't demonstrated the ability to kill Buu.

Can't be so sure, we haven't seen it happen.

Goku may have been at 50% but getting twice his energy would still not help him to actually kill Buu. He hasn't demonstrated anything that Buu couldn't just dodge or recover from.
Again something that we don't know.

The fact that Kid Buu didn't go berserk and just blow Goku up the way he easily could've done like all the other planets shows that Goku didn't face Buu's full onslalught.
Did Goku forget how to dodge or block an attack?

You do know they can lower power levels, right? It's been a concept that existed since, like, the Saiyan Saga.
And why would Kid Buu do that exactly?

Except I've actually given proof.
Didn't see any VALID proof.

Funny how you resort to that question whenever you can't think of anything else. Yes, I am well aware of that. That still doesn't change anything. SSJ3 Goku couldn't kill Janemba, and that was when he didn't have his live body. Kid Buu>Janemba.
Because you making all these claims and yet it go against some things in the manga. Kid Buu>Janemba how exactly?

Which is enough to defeat Goku. Stamina is an attribute of a fighter, don't try to downplay it just because it would be convenient for Goku. Not like Goku at full stamina could outmatch Kid Buu anyway.
Really? Because Goku mention on more than 1 occassion while fighting Kid Buu that his stamina as a Ssj3 was a problem. And I'm not the one downplaying stamina, stamina is what made Kid Buu "won" the fight.

And what someone claims is not necessarily the truth, you should know this.
I do know that FANS claim aren't neccessarily true.

And Goku could just have easily been wrong about Buu.
Except Goku fought Kid Buu for a bit, he should know how strong he actually is.

How exactly are my arguments assumptions with nothing to back them up? Kid Buu tanked everything that Goku used, and even when Goku used Spirit Bomb, Buu was able to repel it until Goku got the Dragon Balls to help him.
Kid Buu was able to outlast a deflated Ssj3 Goku, and the reason Kid Buu block the Spirit Bomb at first because of Goku's energy wasn't stable, if he was fine he would defeated Kid Buu as soon as he throw it.

You do realize that with that logic, I can say that you claiming others don't know what they're talking about is just as much bashing, no?
I'm not mocking anyone while doing it.

I'm not mocking you, I'm just saying things as they are.
That was to 1st Hokage.

So you implying superiority by saying you know the manga better than me is not you acting smart?
No, you just seen it that way, never implied that way at all.

And again, you can't prove the statement, so therefore it's untrue.
Yeah, just disregard the manga.

Now for a random analogy, I can say that someone was a murderer because of the way he acts and because he may have been involved in the case, but does that mean he's the murderer without evidence? Simple answer: No.
Not the same at all, in fact, that will be consider an assumption, that will be more what you're doing.

Very nice, doesn't really change anything in terms of how Goku could actually, with canon feats, defeat Buu.
It wasn't supposed to, it was to prove that Vegeta was willing to fuse with Goku to fight Kid Buu, but Goku refused to fight Kid Buu 1-on-1.

Three options for Buu. Buu can, 1, attack Goku before he can unleash the Kamehameha, 2, dodge the Kamehameha which shouldn't be too hard to avoid considering Buu's speed, or 3, block the attack seeing as how he repelled Spirit Bomb for quite a while.
Could happen, but who knows. Again about Spirit Bomb, Kid Buu stop it because Goku didn't have the energy to control it.

Again, it's the other way around, Vegeta refused to combine with Goku again. Why in the world would Vegeta want to and not Goku? If anything, Vegeta was the one who showed complete reluctance to the idea of fusing.
Again, that happen in Buu's stomach, I'm talking about when they was with East Kaioshin & the Rou Dai Kaioshin.

Them not combining is not nearly as much plot as Goku's advantages.
Doesn't mean anything, something happen in Buu's favor.

because it's actually logical that in character Vegeta would never fuse with Goku unless the situation was extremely desperate, which it was beforehand.
Normally, yes, but not in that case.

Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him, but it took quite some time before anything like that became remotely true
Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him sort of, that could mean anything. Besides, Naruto & DBZ are so different from each other as in Naruto, you got many categories such as Ninjutsu.

And we both know that character statements can be inaccurate at times as well. It's just that some of us refuse to admit it.
And they get proven wrong, this isn't one of them.

Experience doesn't prove that Goku knows Kid Buu's true power and can effectively counter it.
Saying true power would be assuming that Kid Buu was hiding it, and why wouldn't Goku know exactly?

Who said Goku was arrogant, he was just wrong.
You mention Gotenks, and what proofs shows he was wrong?

The plot helped Goku much more than it helped Kid Buu.
But it still help Kid Buu regardless.

Plot helps everybody to an extent so using that logic doesn't prove anything to show that Kid Buu had an unfair advantage.
Never said it did, you guys keep saying Goku had plot on his side & the fact is the plot help Kid Buu 3 times.

Stop saying that I haven't read the manga, that trick is getting old and it's getting really desperate.
I will when you stop saying things that contradicts the manga.

He didn't destroy the planet because he actually wanted to fight the guy, if I wanted a good fight I wouldn't just nuke the planet, I would go face to face with my opponent and have a good brawl.

Invalid since KaioshinKai couldn't be destroyed. Besides, destroying the planet doesn't prove who's stronger.

For the billionth time, I admitted that was a MISTAKE. Yet again, it still doesn't change the validity of your argument in the slightest. Stop trying to point out everybody's flaws when they've already admitted them.
This is your fault, because of the way you post, I have to match up everything together, so at first I didn't even know the mistake you were talking about.

You say you know the manga better than me, yet you can't prove it in a single way. Well, now's your chance to prove it.
I already did, you aren't even awared of some of the events that happen apparently & you getting things mixed up between the manga & the movies.

So the fact that Goku could do nothing to Kid Buu without assistance isn't a feat? You know, downplaying actual feats isn't exactly debating
Again, outlasting a deflated Ssj3 Goku is NOT a feat.

Because a statement made by a character who can't prove that he can actually do that is canon now, right? Does Goku saying he can defeat somebody suddenly make it more canon than somebody else saying the same just because he's Goku? Does Goku suddenly get the benefit of the doubt because he's Goku for the convenience of your argument? Sorry but things don't work that way here
Honestly, this is starting to bore me, what if I agree & said yes Goku & Toriyama is wrong & Miles is right?

So you are assuming that Cell was exagerating when he said that while charging his Kamehameha.
Yes, he was gloating, was he not?

Empty assumption is empty.
Take your advice.

Outlasting SSJ3 Goku, Fat Buu, and SSJ2 Vegeta is more of a feat than you let it seem.

Outlasting Ssj3 Goku isn't a feat when stamina was already an issue for Ssj3 Goku. Good Buu & Ssj2 Vegeta are far weaker than Kid Buu, also let me remind you that Good Buu is far weaker than the original Fat Buu.

Once again, who is Goku to say who he can and cannot defeat?
The man who fought for years & sensing how strong an opponent is will be easy for him and any Z fighter.

The Z-Fighters have never technically lost a battle, so plot allows the good guys to win again.
What's your point with this?

What feat has Goku given that will give him the win? That's all I want to here
How about be able to fight Kid Buu when he wasn't even at full strength.

Court and debating are extremely different. Don't try to mix the 2.
We're both trying to prove something, it isn't that different.

It's not an assumption if I'm right.
An assumption can't be proven, how would you be right if it can't be proven?

lolwutfail. He'd 3/4 of the BG debater's ass in a debate.
On a Naruto Discussion Forum.

He could not win without his energy being restored. He does not have enough stamina to keep going like Kid Buu does. Kid Buu can outlast. He can tank or regen from whatever Goku has
I agree, but boost & restore are still 2 different things regardless.

Speed, destructive power, stamina, durability. These are all feats Kid Buu have shown alot of.

Those are abilities, not feats.

The one where he fought 3 different characters 1 by 1 without any sign of fatigue or damage.
Dude, those aren't feats, Goku defeating Freeza is a feat. It's hard to take damage when you can regenerate easily, and the other 2 were weaklings.

Vegito could easily defeat Kid Buu, but Goku cannot.
Hence the plot helping Kid Buu.

That was a counter. I'm saying that any time the Z-Fighters win, it is always plot endused.

It appears to me that you were dodging my statement.

Buu's best feat was destroying planets effortlessly. This is the part where common sense can be used to assume Kid Buu can do better than that.
Still if weaklings like the first Vegeta & Frieza can destroyed a planet, why shouldn't Buu be able to do it effortlessly, I bet Goku or Vegeta wanted to, they could do that too if they could breath in space.

You don't unbderstand how important stamina is in a fight. If you tired out in a race, and you run out of stamina, you lose. Plain and Simple
How much stamina did Kid Buu lost destroying planets with no effort? It appears none. And of course stamina is important, stamina is why Goku lost.

It proves how much stamina he has. It also proves he can tank as much as Goku can throw at him.
Or it shows how much stamina Goku lost & how weak Good Buu & Vegeta are.

--

Since a Goku vs Kid Buu topic was made, I will debate there later.

[Miles Edgeworth]

I'll take that as a no.Is that what you tell yourself whenever you refuse to prove anything?

Can't be so sure, we haven't seen it happen.-_- So how the heck are you so sure SSJ3 Goku can kill Buu then? You sure haven't proven it.

Again something that we don't know.You didn't seem to realize that much very well.

Did Goku forget how to dodge or block an attack?Right, because Goku can actually dodge and block all of Kid Buu's attacks, despite the fact that a bloodlusted Kid Buu would annihilate him.

And why would Kid Buu do that exactly?Why wouldn't he? It's not like he was gonna be killed off by the plot and restricted from doing anything of use right? Oh wait...

Didn't see any VALID proof. Opinions, opinions. I could say the same thing about you because what a character says is not valid proof about their strength.

Because you making all these claims and yet it go against some things in the manga. Kid Buu>Janemba how exactly?It goes against what in the manga, what Goku said? Oh boohoo, I disagree with something that cannot be proven, I'm so wrong. Kid Buu has demonstrated more power than Janemba and can tank all of his attacks, you certainly haven't proven otherwise.

Really? Because Goku mention on more than 1 occassion while fighting Kid Buu that his stamina as a Ssj3 was a problem. And I'm not the one downplaying stamina, stamina is what made Kid Buu "won" the fight.Even if stamina WAS the only reason Buu won, it's still a legitimate feat. Not like Goku having more stamina would've helped because while he was in SSJ3 he still couldn't actually hurt the guy.

I do know that FANS claim aren't neccessarily true.Right, because a character's word is suddenly law? You claim that Goku saying he could defeat Buu means he can, a lot of people say they could win a fight against somebody, but if they can't prove it, then there's no reason to believe they can.

Except Goku fought Kid Buu for a bit, he should know how strong he actually is.Doesn't prove a thing.

Kid Buu was able to outlast a deflated Ssj3 Goku, and the reason Kid Buu block the Spirit Bomb at first because of Goku's energy wasn't stable, if he was fine he would defeated Kid Buu as soon as he throw it.You do realize that Goku wouldn't have even been given prep time for the Spirit Bomb in a one on one fight, right? Kid Buu could also have easily just teleported behind Goku and killed him. Simple solution.

I'm not mocking anyone while doing it. So constantly asking me if I really read the manga when it's clear I have is not implying some sort of rudeness? Very amusing opinion.

No, you just seen it that way, never implied that way at all.First Hokage and I could easily say the same thing.

Yeah, just disregard the manga.Again, a character's words are not canon manga evidence. Gin said his Bankai is Mach 500, does that necessarily mean it's literally Mach 500? Many people said Naruto has surpassed them, when in fact it took a while for Naruto to even come close to that level. Word of mouth without evidence means nothing, I can claim a character's word is canon all day and at the end of the debate it would merely be wank.

Not the same at all, in fact, that will be consider an assumption, that will be more what you're doing.So Goku thinking he can beat Buu at his best is not an assumption, but me disagreeing because he never proved he could is an assumption? Nice use of logic there.

Could happen, but who knows. Again about Spirit Bomb, Kid Buu stop it because Goku didn't have the energy to control it.Well that's Goku's problem. Not like Kid Buu couldn't just, you know, teleport away anyway, no?

Doesn't mean anything, something happen in Buu's favor.Never said nothing did. Just saying that what happened for Goku ended up completely nullifying any sort of advantage Buu had and ended up one sided for Goku. Don't twist my words.

Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him sort of, that could mean anything. Besides, Naruto & DBZ are so different from each other as in Naruto, you got many categories such as Ninjutsu.So suddenly it's convenient that what Kakashi said may or may not be true, but what Goku said is definitely true? Kakashi has known Naruto for years and has seen him train, so most definitely he'd have an idea about Naruto's strength. However, you claim that Kakashi could be wrong about his statement while Goku wouldn't be? I sense some bias here.

And they get proven wrong, this isn't one of them.Except Goku's statement was never proven correct so it's invalid.

Saying true power would be assuming that Kid Buu was hiding it, and why wouldn't Goku know exactly?How would Goku even know Kid Buu's upper feats in terms of power? None of Goku's abilities match Kid Buu at his best besides perhaps Spirit Bomb, and there's no way that Goku would land that in a one on one fight.

You mention Gotenks, and what proofs shows he was wrong?Quite a bunch of things prove he was wrong.

But it still help Kid Buu regardless.Never said it didn't.

Never said it did, you guys keep saying Goku had plot on his side & the fact is the plot help Kid Buu 3 times.And Goku had the plot help him over 9000. Your point?

I will when you stop saying things that contradicts the manga.Not believing some unproven statement made by Goku who thinks he can actually defeat Kid Buu on his own contradicts the manga? You have never proven how.

Invalid since KaioshinKai couldn't be destroyed. Besides, destroying the planet doesn't prove who's stronger.Irrelevant.

This is your fault, because of the way you post, I have to match up everything together, so at first I didn't even know the mistake you were talking about.So because you don't understand what somebody else is saying, you pin all the blame on them? That is extremely rude, telling somebody it's their fault when you keep on criticizing them about things that were already made evident. I thought you had some respect for other people, but it looks like that assumption has been cleared up.

I already did, you aren't even awared of some of the events that happen apparently & you getting things mixed up between the manga & the movies.Stop bringing up crap that was dealt with a page ago.

Again, outlasting a deflated Ssj3 Goku is NOT a feat.It is, you just don't want to admit it.

Honestly, this is starting to bore me, what if I agree & said yes Goku & Toriyama is wrong & Miles is right?It is getting boring because you won't admit that a character saying something is not proven canon. Does a character claiming they can win a fight mean that Toriyama believes they can win that fight? A character saying they can beat someone without proof is NOT evidence from the author, contrary to your beliefs. If you can't prove that in the least, then I have no reason to agree with you in the slightest.

[Ultimate combatant]

Janemba has advantage when it comes to strength, speed and only slightly intelligence. Kid Buu however has regeneration. If Janemba finds out how to destroy him he would win.

[The 1st Hokage]

Janemba has advantage when it comes to strength, speed and only slightly intelligence. Kid Buu however has regeneration. If Janemba finds out how to destroy him he would win.
lol

Janemba is not nearly as strong as Buu. Buu had enough power to destroy otherworld. Janemba just wrecked it.

[Shino Hatake]

Um could or could janemba not just use copy attack to switch the views on the attacks if Buu did try to use his planet busting tech?

[Miles Edgeworth]

Janemba has advantage when it comes to strength, speed and only slightly intelligence. Kid Buu however has regeneration. If Janemba finds out how to destroy him he would win.

Kid Buu has demonstrated more power from what I've seen. Janemba is powerful too but I don't recall anything he has being strong enough to permanently put Kid Buu down, as Kid Buu could just heal from Janemba's attacks.

If Janemba has a speed advantage it's not by enough to make much of a difference.

[Ultimate combatant]

Kid Buu has demonstrated more power from what I've seen. Janemba is powerful too but I don't recall anything he has being strong enough to permanently put Kid Buu down, as Kid Buu could just heal from Janemba's attacks.

If Janemba has a speed advantage it's not by enough to make much of a difference.

He defeated Goku with an ease, which puts him above Kid Buu who had troubles with already worn out Goku. In Terms of power and speed he is stronger.

However, Kid Buu`s regeneration could be troublesome.

I doubt Janemba could destroy him easily, because the easiest way to beat Buu is with blast that destroys all of his cells. A blast that Janemba is probably not capable to make. He could however fight Buu and show that he is superior. Buu`s last chance would be blast strong enough to destroy himself which when flying towards Janemba would enter dimensional hole and hit Kid Buu resulting in his death.

Janemba might not be smart enough to think of a such plan, but this could still happen considering this is how the fight would probably go, assuming Kid Buu wouldn`t have extreme amount of luck!!!

[SimpleGenin]

kid buu's just a beast..
he showed a larger planet bursting skill then janemba

[The 1st Hokage]

He defeated Goku with an ease, which puts him above Kid Buu who had troubles with already worn out Goku. In Terms of power and speed he is stronger.

However, Kid Buu`s regeneration could be troublesome.

I doubt Janemba could destroy him easily, because the easiest way to beat Buu is with blast that destroys all of his cells. A blast that Janemba is probably not capable to make. He could however fight Buu and show that he is superior. Buu`s last chance would be blast strong enough to destroy himself which when flying towards Janemba would enter dimensional hole and hit Kid Buu resulting in his death.

Janemba might not be smart enough to think of a such plan, but this could still happen considering this is how the fight would probably go, assuming Kid Buu wouldn`t have extreme amount of luck!!!
Kid Buu was toying with Goku if you read it again, and Goku and Vegeta were taking turns, so while Goku got a break, Buu was fighting SSJ2 Vegeta, then he fought Fat Buu. 3 fights with no breaks while Goku got help from Z-plot.

[Nightmare Luffy]

From what I remember of the movie I'd say Kid Buu has this. With his regeneration he's extremely hard to kill, he can do casual planet busting blasts and if I remember right the DBZ earth is bigger then our own earth too.

When SS3 Goku fought Fat Buu he remarked that his attacks weren't even hurting him then Kid Buu was able to beat Fat Buu to near death and I don't remember Janemba having any counter to being turned to chocolate although I could be wrong since I don't remember it clearly.

Also, I think in the manga it said something about Kid Buu just getting stronger over time instead of becoming weaker.

[cnorwood]

this is rape, if you read the manga goku says he could be kid buu at full power ssj3, idk why he would lie if he knows his full ssj3 power level, and could sense kid buus while fighting him. janemba on the other hand raped goku ssj3, at least with kid buu he could fight with him for some time. and plus how would kid buu kill janemba since he cant purify him, so when he dies janemba would just use his reality altering abilities and just come back to life, also janemba has regeneration as well if you guys forgot

[SimpleGenin]

you could look up the power levels..

[cnorwood]

you could look up the power levels..
they dont give out power levels after future trunks 5, after that the daizenshuu say the power levels are incalculable

[SimpleGenin]

even in cards? i dont think soo because i just saw an Uub card with power levels

[cnorwood]

even in cards? i dont think soo because i just saw an Uub card with power levels
those arent canon, only daizenshuu powerlevels are canon

[SimpleGenin]

ok even if, it wouldnt help, it says theyre excactly the same power level on several sites theyre both..350,000,000 which doesnt make sense because its suppose to be the strongest buu, but than it says in the same site that super buu ( with picolo, gotenks) is at 650,00,000.

[cnorwood]

ok even if, it wouldnt help, it says theyre excactly the same power level on several sites theyre both..350,000,000 which doesnt make sense because its suppose to be the strongest buu, but than it says in the same site that super buu ( with picolo, gotenks) is at 650,00,000.
if akira toryiama didnt make those power levels, which he didnt his power levels were only in the daizensuu, those are what we call fan speculation. the daizenshuu are the official dragonball guides, and 650,000,000? that would be lower than goku if he went ssj3 on planet namek, and by the boo saga he would be way stronger

[Miles Edgeworth]

this is rape, if you read the manga goku says he could be kid buu at full power ssj3, idk why he would lie if he knows his full ssj3 power level, and could sense kid buus while fighting him. janemba on the other hand raped goku ssj3, at least with kid buu he could fight with him for some time. and plus how would kid buu kill janemba since he cant purify him, so when he dies janemba would just use his reality altering abilities and just come back to life, also janemba has regeneration as well if you guys forgot

Because Goku saying he can kill somebody automatically means he can?

People keep on saying that Goku would "know Buu's power" and is thus right, but nobody can ever give actual proof that Goku indeed has that power. The one move Goku has shown that is capable of killing Buu is Spirit Bomb. While Goku can arguably kill Buu at full power, Spirit Bomb IS his full power, and we all know that it requires way too much prep and leaves the user vulnerable. I'd hope Goku has the Dragon Balls or something because if he doesn't then he's screwed.

How would Janemba kill Buu? Buu has shown superior power and regen means Janemba isn't killing him.

[The 1st Hokage]

this is rape, if you read the manga goku says he could be kid buu at full power ssj3, idk why he would lie if he knows his full ssj3 power level, and could sense kid buus while fighting him. janemba on the other hand raped goku ssj3, at least with kid buu he could fight with him for some time. and plus how would kid buu kill janemba since he cant purify him, so when he dies janemba would just use his reality altering abilities and just come back to life, also janemba has regeneration as well if you guys forgotGoku can't talk all he wants, but Kid Buu was anally raping him, Vegeta, and Fat Buu. This is indeed a rape in Buu's favor.

you could look up the power levels..Power levels mean nothing, even if IT'S OVER 9000!!!

even in cards? i dont think soo because i just saw an Uub card with power levels
Those are so far from Canon it's not funny.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

@Firsty: Well, it's a little funny. xD

I don't think I've ever seen somebody use CARDS as an actual debating tool outside of YuGiOh debates.

[The 1st Hokage]

@Firsty: Well, it's a little funny. xD

I don't think I've ever seen somebody use CARDS as an actual debating tool outside of YuGiOh debates.
I summon Gaara of the Sand! OMG IT'S OVER 9000!!!!!

But the point is, Janemba < Kid Buu >>> SSJ3 Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta, Fat Buu

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

At the very, very least, Buu and Janemba are equal. Sure one can argue that Janemba's stronger, but he has nothing that can give the same power output as a Spirit Bomb and we all know that's the only thing that gave Buu trouble. Buu can chip away at Janemba's health to those who say he's stronger while Buu has near unstoppable regen.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

I summon Gaara of the Sand! OMG IT'S OVER 9000!!!!!

But the point is, Janemba < Kid Buu >>> SSJ3 Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta, Fat Buu

While we're at it:

Gogeta>Kid Buu
Gogeta>Janemba
Kid Buu>Janemba
Vegito>All
SSJ3>Almost nothing, really. It's actually pretty worthless if you think about it.

[Spleen Boy]

While we're at it:

Gogeta>Kid Buu
Gogeta>Janemba
Kid Buu>Janemba
Vegito>All
SSJ3>Almost nothing, really. It's actually pretty worthless if you think about it.


Actually I think your wrong.
It has been aclaimed that Gogeta is stronger then Vegito if only on the principle that Vegito is never seen in anything higher then SS2. But most other corrections I agree with.

[The 1st Hokage]

Actually I think your wrong.
It has been aclaimed that Gogeta is stronger then Vegito if only on the principle that Vegito is never seen in anything higher then SS2. But most other corrections I agree with.
Potara > Fusion Dance

Potara earings don't have a time limit, so he outlasts, and Gohan w/ Elder Kai's training SSJ3 Goku.Vegito >>>>>> Buuhan >>> Gohan

[Miles Edgeworth]

Actually I think your wrong.
It has been aclaimed that Gogeta is stronger then Vegito if only on the principle that Vegito is never seen in anything higher then SS2. But most other corrections I agree with.

Neither was Gogeta, unless you're counting the non canon SSJ4 Gogeta from GT.

[coil]

I don't remember a whole lot about Janemba but i know that Kid Buu's regenerative abilities were even cooler then Piccolo's, he destroyed multiple planets each one being one sec flat and he can turn people into candy, so i say buu.

About Goku and Buu, i remember Goku fighting Majin Buu (the fat one) when he was dead and it seemed pretty equal. So i am pretty sure that he couldn't have been stronger then kid buu.

[Ultimate combatant]

1. Goku can't talk all he wants, but Kid Buu was anally raping him, Vegeta, and Fat Buu. This is indeed a rape in Buu's favor.

2.Power levels mean nothing, even if IT'S OVER 9000!!!

1. Goku (while exhausted in ssj3) was fighting against Kid Buu. He hit him quite a few times and managed to destroy big part of his body. Then Buu regenerated and switched with Vegeta. I suggest you read it again. (I`m not sure, but I believe its Chapter 511.) :D

And Kid Buu wasn`t fighting the same Fat Buu who Goku was fighting. You see, Kid Buu fought good part of fat Majin Buu. Or you can call him Mr. Buu.
However, Goku fought fat Majin Buu with his evil counterpart within.

Fat Majin Buu (Mr. Buu + Evil Buu) is physically stronger than Mr. Buu. :D

2. Well, power levels tell us the characters minimum strength, speed and durability. The problem is that the exact power levels after Trunks saga are unknown. We can only calculate the smallest possible power levels for characters after Trunks saga.:D


But the point is, Janemba < Kid Buu >>> SSJ3 Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta, Fat Buu

Not really. Tired Goku ssj3 managed to hit Kid Buu a few times and destroy much of his body. He believes if he was at his full power he could definetely destroy him.

But, when full power Goku ssj3 fights Janemba, he cannot even touch him.

So:

full power Goku ssj3 > (>...?) tired Goku ssj3

Kid Buu > tired Goku ssj3

Janemba >>>>> full power Goku ssj3

Janemba is stronger than Kid Buu!!!:D

Actually I think your wrong.
It has been aclaimed that Gogeta is stronger then Vegito if only on the principle that Vegito is never seen in anything higher then SS2. But most other corrections I agree with.

1. Potara is far stronger than Fusion Dance:

- Potara fighter (fused fighter 1 and 2)>>>>>>>>>>... Fusion dance fighter (fused fighter 1 and 2)
- Potara lasts forever (weakness: possible strange relations in family), fusion dance lasts 30 minutes, sometimes less if fusee loses to much power during fusion (e.g. - Gotenks ssj3)
- No unwanted Fusions (like Veku)
- More simple to fuse (assuming you have potara earrings)
-...


[QUOTE=The 1st Hokage;3774800]Potara > Fusion Dance

True. A few reasons named above!!!

[J-Sun Tasogare]

1. Goku (while exhausted in ssj3) was fighting against Kid Buu. He hit him quite a few times and managed to destroy big part of his body. Then Buu regenerated and switched with Vegeta. I suggest you read it again. (I`m not sure, but I believe its Chapter 511.) :D

And Kid Buu wasn`t fighting the same Fat Buu who Goku was fighting. You see, Kid Buu fought good part of fat Majin Buu. Or you can call him Mr. Buu.
However, Goku fought fat Majin Buu with his evil counterpart within.

Fat Majin Buu (Mr. Buu + Evil Buu) is physically stronger than Mr. Buu. :D

2. Well, power levels tell us the characters minimum strength, speed and durability. The problem is that the exact power levels after Trunks saga are unknown. We can only calculate the smallest possible power levels for characters after Trunks saga.:D



Not really. Tired Goku ssj3 managed to hit Kid Buu a few times and destroy much of his body. He believes if he was at his full power he could definetely destroy him.

But, when full power Goku ssj3 fights Janemba, he cannot even touch him.

So:

full power Goku ssj3 > (>...?) tired Goku ssj3

Kid Buu > tired Goku ssj3

Janemba >>>>> full power Goku ssj3

Janemba is stronger than Kid Buu!!!:D



1. Potara is far stronger than Fusion Dance:

- Potara fighter (fused fighter 1 and 2)>>>>>>>>>>... Fusion dance fighter (fused fighter 1 and 2)
- Potara lasts forever (weakness: possible strange relations in family), fusion dance lasts 30 minutes, sometimes less if fusee loses to much power during fusion (e.g. - Gotenks ssj3)
- No unwanted Fusions (like Veku)
- More simple to fuse (assuming you have potara earrings)
-...



Just because Buu got hit a couple of times doesn't mean anything. If you have Regen, you don't need to dodge attacks, so Buu being less than smart could've just tanked those hits bevause he didn't know or didn't want to dodge them.

[The 1st Hokage]

Janemba can cut Buu up as much as h wants with that sword of his, but Regen and Kamehameha alone take this.

[cnorwood]

i wonder if people realize janemba can regenerate, and if he wasnt purified he wouldve just came back

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

I wonder if cnorwood realizes that Janemba never uses regeneration in the movie, which I'm assuming were basing him off of. He can use a variant of instant transmission, but he never showed regen, unless you're counting the big Janemba becoming Super Janemba.

[cnorwood]

are we talking about regular janemba or super janemba? i assumed super

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

are we talking about regular janemba or super janemba? i assumed super

We are talking about Super, but he still hasn't shown any regen regardless.

[The 1st Hokage]

Yep, this is Super Janemba. He showed no regen whatsoever, only an Instant Transmission type technique. Kid Buu has IT though.

[FlyingThunderGod]

Back to the 2nd debate: 1st Hokage and Miles you got pwned by Narutorious. You 2 was just wrong most of the time. But back to debate Buu wins. Just because the amount of time, there wasnt enough too see something else from Janemba.

[The 1st Hokage]

Back to the 2nd debate: 1st Hokage and Miles you got pwned by Narutorious. You 2 was just wrong most of the time. But back to debate Buu wins. Just because the amount of time, there wasnt enough too see something else from Janemba.
We were pwned how? Because we're using feats in the BG? Wow, what has the world come to. As far as I remember, Narutorious's only point was "Well the Author Said..." which is considered crap in the BG. We (Me and Miles) know this for multiple reasons. We helped make the BG Rules, and we've been debating here for more than a year. (11 months and 2 weeks for me. :roll:)

Now, back to the debate. Buu has shown so much more than Janemba in any form. Busting Planets without getting fatigued even after that, he fought 3 other characters, and owned them hard. His regen, IT, and Kamehame can take this.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Back to the 2nd debate: 1st Hokage and Miles you got pwned by Narutorious. You 2 was just wrong most of the time. But back to debate Buu wins. Just because the amount of time, there wasnt enough too see something else from Janemba.

So apparently following actual BG rules and giving proof of feats is getting pwned? I've seen trolls but your post was just utterly pointless and was a bad attempt at gathering attention.

I would suggest improving your grammar before you even bother trying to say how we were pwned. You have made absolutely no contribution to the thread and have shown yourself as a troll who is more likely to be ridiculed by other members than to actually contribute at all to this section.

[cnorwood]

planet busting> warping all reality and breaking the barrier between life and death

[Noctis Arashi]

Janemba can regen. >.> From negative emotion. e.e

Kid buu is like the essence of negative emotion. As long as kid buu exists, janemba doesn't die. >.>

[Taker369]

kidd buu wins he,s shown more feats then Janemba also kidd buu was in the manga Janemba is a filler character.

[The 1st Hokage]

planet busting> warping all reality and breaking the barrier between life and death
No, it's vice versa, but saying Janemba did neither one, Kid Buu > Janemba.

Janemba just trapped everyone in jelly beans. :roll:
Janemba can regen. >.> From negative emotion. e.e

Kid buu is like the essence of negative emotion. As long as kid buu exists, janemba doesn't die. >.>
I want proof NOA!

/Slams fists of table

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

Janemba can regen. >.> From negative emotion. e.e

Kid buu is like the essence of negative emotion. As long as kid buu exists, janemba doesn't die. >.>

I only remember that Janemba was created from collected negative emotions, not that he can exist as long as someone's negative.

[Miles Edgeworth]

When was it proven that Janemba exists through negative emotion's being? He's not an abstract character, just because negative emotion exists doesn't mean he is immortal, otherwise Janemba would not have lost to Gogeta.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

When was it proven that Janemba exists through negative emotion's being? He's not an abstract character, just because negative emotion exists doesn't mean he is immortal, otherwise Janemba would not have lost to Gogeta.

I mistakenly used Susanoo's term. I meant he was created from all the sins or whatever being mixed together. I'm sure we all know that. However, Janemba certainly does not exist solely due to someone having a negative personality/attitude.

[Miles Edgeworth]

Sorry if it wasn't clear, my post was directed towards Susanoo but I was too lazy to quote it.

[cnorwood]

well gogeta did purify him, so it would take a long ass time to make another janemba