Sazabi24 & Toad Master Vs. Tourune & Wooster (Debate Contest Match 11)

[Jinchiruuki]

SM Jiraiya vs Killer Bee

Conditions/Restrictions: No Boss summons or Ma and Pa summons, No Dark Swamp, No Full Host/Partial transformation or Menacing Ball, KB can only go 1 Tailed Cloak. Speed Equalized.

Location: Hokage Building Rooftop

Good luck to both teams!

[Wooster]

Hmm, Hmm interesting. I am taking the point on this for my team. I will get around to this tonight or tomorrow.

Just a clarifier: Killebee can do any transformation less than full transformation. Does that include partial transformation and second stage?

Edit: Thanks Jin!

[Jinchiruuki]

KB can only do 1 Tailed form.

[Tourune]

question: does KB start in tailed form.

+ i will be commenting tomorow i need time to think

[Tourune]

+ what if the same team picks the same person caz i pick Jiraya, but what if they pick him to???

i will have my FULL answer tomorow

[Toad Master]

This debate is impossible, Jiraiya cant use Sage Mode without Ma & Pa, he never shown that skill, Killerbee cant use most of what makes him powerful.

Jiraiya's Needle Jinzo will avoid any damage from Killerbee, you took away Dark Swamp and made speed the same, but Jiraiya could just use Needle Barrage Killerbee wont be able to avoid it at a close range.

But all this means nothing because a lot of jiraiya's jutsu are used with his summoning and without Ma & Pa there is no Sage Mode.

we cant debate about this! too many Conditions/Restrictions.

[Tourune]

This debate is impossible, Jiraiya cant use Sage Mode without Ma & Pa, he never shown that skill, Killerbee cant use most of what makes him powerful.

Jiraiya's Needle Jinzo will avoid any damage from Killerbee, you took away Dark Swamp and made speed the same, but Jiraiya could just use Needle Barrage Killerbee wont be able to avoid it at a close range.

But all this means nothing because a lot of jiraiya's jutsu are used with his summoning and without Ma & Pa there is no Sage Mode.

we cant debate about this! too many Conditions/Restrictions.
Yes There is, Naruto didnt use Ma + Pa. There purpuse is to keep Jiraya in SM, but he can go into it still.

Also my team picked Jiraya already. but we must post tomorow.

[Toad Master]

Yes There is, Naruto didnt use Ma + Pa. There purpuse is to keep Jiraya in SM, but he can go into it still.

Also my team picked Jiraya already. but we must post tomorow.

I'm not debating with all this Conditions/Restrictions, Killerbee cant win this fight. done deal, we both agree Jiraiya wins.

[Tourune]

I'm not debating with all this Conditions/Restrictions, Killerbee cant win this fight. done deal, we both agree Jiraiya wins.
im still gonna post my post thow. what about your partner???

[Toad Master]

im still gonna post my post thow. what about your partner???

I dont know he hasn't posted yet, but I cant debate about Killerbee winning when I dont believe he can win.

[Wooster]

If you guys want to take Jiraiya, I'll take Killerbee. I think we can assume Jiraiya has entered Sage mode in some way and then go from there. The how of it doesn't really matter.

I'm probably not going to be ready until tomorrow, so Tourune you can do this if you want.

[The 1st Hokage]

This debate is impossible, Jiraiya cant use Sage Mode without Ma & Pa, he never shown that skill, Killerbee cant use most of what makes him powerful.

Jiraiya's Needle Jinzo will avoid any damage from Killerbee, you took away Dark Swamp and made speed the same, but Jiraiya could just use Needle Barrage Killerbee wont be able to avoid it at a close range.

But all this means nothing because a lot of jiraiya's jutsu are used with his summoning and without Ma & Pa there is no Sage Mode.

we cant debate about this! too many Conditions/Restrictions.
They gather nature eneergy for him. If he's still, he can enter sage mode. You think to much. Just debate the match without compaints.

This on is so easy. If you have the right sources,you can make this debate easy. I debated one harder than this so don't complain.

[Toad Master]

Ok, I did debate about Jiraiya beating him, but here you go.

Jiraiya, would start out using Barrier: Dome Method Formation, so he knows where Killerbee is when he attacks. He could then use Summoning: Crushing Toad Stomach, to Crash Killerbee inside the toad's Stomach, or could use Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind to trap Killerbee inside of the toad and use it to Slow killerbee down making Jiraiya speed greater, then use that speed to hit him with a super giant rasengan, he could also use the shadow clones to fight Killerbee while, jiraiya plans out an unavoidable attack. Once trapped inside the toads stomach, Jiraiya wont have any problem taking out Killerbee.

If you need any more info on how Jiraiya defeats him I will let you know.

[Sazabi24]

Start off with Swamp of the underworld. Summon Gamabunta, cover the top of the swamp in oil. Set oil on fire. No more Killerbee.

[Tourune]

My Full Post.
Verdict - I Pick Sage Mode Jiraya. Jutsu Wise - Jiraya has WAY more jutsu's availible to him than Killer Bee has. Jiraya has, Needlle Jizo, Wild Lion's Mane Thechnique, Hair Needle Barrage, Dome Method Formation, Fire Toad Oil Bomb, Fire Dragon Jutsu, Oil Bullet, Twin Rasengan, and Great Ball Rasengan. Killer Bee has, 1 Tailed Headbutt, 1 Tailed Larit and Normal 7 Swords Dance. So Jiraya wins Jutsu wise.

Acceptions - With the Sage Mode and the 1 Tailed Form, Sage Mode wins because Sage Mode allows the user to Sense chakra, Increase there Ninjutsu, genjutsu, Taijutsu, Stamina, Durability, Streanth and gives them a Natural invisible energy cloak around there bodies extending their attacks, but the bad part is W/O Ma and Pa Sage Mode will end. Killer Bee's cloak does the same exept it doesnt include Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Chakra sensery incresed, and the bad part about this is that it hurts Killer Bee's skin and it exausts his health the more he is in 1 Tailed form.

The Battle - Killer Bee attemps to attack first with 7 Swords Dance, but Jiraya counters By holding Killer Bee with Needle Jizo OR Wild Lions Mane, Then Jiraya uses Dragon Fire Jutsu burning Killer Bee. Killer Bee then goes 1 Tailed Form and starts running to throw Jiraya off but Jiraya then uses Dome Meathod Formation to find Killer Bee, Killer Bee attemps Headbutt OR Larit but then Jiraya uses Wild Lions Mane to Hold Killer Bee then Jiraya uses Great Ball Rasengan killing Killer Bee.

Statistics - Jiraya has more than one way to kill Killer Bee, but Killer Bee canot hurt Jiraya as much. The cloak does protect against some of Jiraya's elemental Attacks in a normal state but Sage Mode increases Jiraya's attacks tenfold, Best example Normal Naruto could only use Rasenshurican once, Sage Mode Naruto Caould use it 4 times, throw it and increase its size. Also a very big factor is that Jiraya in a normal state survived an attack from 4 tailed Naruto during training, so with MUCH more power and healing regenerations alaong with an invisible cloack that sheilds the user form surtin harm, Killer Bee just Cant get through Jiraya.

Other Comments - Does Killer Bee have Samahada? What's the Distance?
With Samahada Killer Bee has A WAY better chance of winning this fight, Killer Bee could Absorb Jiraya's Attacks and attack him from up close but Needle Jizo OR Hair Needle Barrage would end that plan.

P.S. is it OK if i ask for a Danzo fight nex time? OR have you guys laid out the battles already?

[Wooster]

Ok, I did debate about Jiraiya beating him, but here you go.

Jiraiya, would start out using Barrier: Dome Method Formation, so he knows where Killerbee is when he attacks. He could then use Summoning: Crushing Toad Stomach, to Crash Killerbee inside the toad's Stomach, or could use Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind to trap Killerbee inside of the toad and use it to Slow killerbee down making Jiraiya speed greater, then use that speed to hit him with a super giant rasengan, he could also use the shadow clones to fight Killerbee while, jiraiya plans out an unavoidable attack. Once trapped inside the toads stomach, Jiraiya wont have any problem taking out Killerbee.

If you need any more info on how Jiraiya defeats him I will let you know.

Start off with Swamp of the underworld. Summon Gamabunta, cover the top of the swamp in oil. Set oil on fire. No more Killerbee.
Alright, I guess I will get started defending the Killerbee side.

Barrier Dome would be completely useless against Killerbee in this type of setting and battled field. Killer Bee has no reason to hide and no ability to do so. The Hokage roof doesn;t have anywhere to hide. Killerbee would immediately close the distance and attack directly. If Jiraiya used the barrier jutsu, he would open himself up for attack. We already know from the Pain fight that a quick offensive attacks are the counter to it.

I doubt crushing Toad Stomach would do much good in an open environment, the point of that jutsu is the be inside and in a confined space. Maybe Jiraiya could cover some of the ground, but what good would that do? Killerbee could just jump and retreat to higher ground on one of the pillars if needed.

I don't think you are allowed summonings like Toad Mouth Bind, but regardless, how would Jiraiya get Killerbee in there? It's more of a trap to use on the unsuspecting not for use during a one-on-one battle.

I think Killerbee would start by throwing a blade or pencil charged with lightening chakra at Jiraiya to serve as a distraction. This attack would give him enough time to close the distance and attack using sword style.
Jiraiya does have a solid defense; however, we have seen that when Killerbee infuses lightening chakra into his blades he can cut through steel. I think we can assume that Jiraiya's defense would be useless against this attack, Jiraiya would have to dodge the attacks.

I think this itself would be enough to take Jiraiya down by pressuring him and not giving him enough time to build-up a giant rasengan. In the worse case scenario, Killerbee can go one tail and try a lariat. We know this attack is extremely fast because Kisame didn't even have time to activate a single jutsu when Kilerbee attacked with his brother.

As to Sazabi: no dark swamp, no boss summons. Check the OP.

Edit: Blast it, Tourune. Your decision: you want me to withdraw my argument or do you want to withdraw yours.

[Tourune]

Alright, I guess I will get started defending the Killerbee side.

Barrier Dome would be completely useless against Killerbee in this type of setting and battled field. Killer Bee has no reason to hide and no ability to do so. The Hokage roof doesn;t have anywhere to hide. Killerbee would immediately close the distance and attack directly. If Jiraiya used the barrier jutsu, he would open himself up for attack. We already know from the Pain fight that a quick offensive attacks are the counter to it.

I doubt crushing Toad Stomach would do much good in an open environment, the point of that jutsu is the be inside and in a confined space. Maybe Jiraiya could cover some of the ground, but what good would that do? Killerbee could just jump and retreat to higher ground on one of the pillars if needed.

I don't think you are allowed summonings like Toad Mouth Bind, but regardless, how would Jiraiya get Killerbee in there? It's more of a trap to use on the unsuspecting not for use during a one-on-one battle.

I think Killerbee would start by throwing a blade or pencil charged with lightening chakra at Jiraiya to serve as a distraction. This attack would give him enough time to close the distance and attack using sword style.
Jiraiya does have a solid defense; however, we have seen that when Killerbee infuses lightening chakra into his blades he can cut through steel. I think we can assume that Jiraiya's defense would be useless against this attack, Jiraiya would have to dodge the attacks.

I think this itself would be enough to take Jiraiya down by pressuring him and not giving him enough time to build-up a giant rasengan. In the worse case scenario, Killerbee can go one tail and try a lariat. We know this attack is extremely fast because Kisame didn't even have time to activate a single jutsu when Kilerbee attacked with his brother.

As to Sazabi: no dark swamp, no boss summons. Check the OP.

Edit: Blast it, Tourune. Your decision: you want me to withdraw my argument or do you want to withdraw yours.
If the other team posts again then well see because i dought they will and we have better arguments anyway, so for now well just leave ours up there

[Wooster]

If the other team posts again then well see because i dought they will and we have better arguments anyway, so for now well just leave ours up thereBut we are disagreeing with each other. The judges at least will throw out one of our arguments. Oh, well. I will let you respond to the rest then.

[Toad Master]

Crushing Toad Stomach is a summoning type jutsu, that summons the opponent into a toads stomach that crushs them. I also forget which episode Jiraiya use Toad mouth trap to defend against an attack in a open field, so no he doesn't need an closed in space. Jiraiya could wrap killerbee in needle jinzo then use the hair as spikes to kill him. Jiraiya has many ways to summon Killerbee into a toads stomach, and once inside Killerbee would lose fast, because Jiraiya could use the walls of the toads stomach to trap killerbee while he restores his Sage Mode.

[Wooster]

Crushing Toad Stomach is a summoning type jutsu, that summons the opponent into a toads stomach that crushs them. I also forget which episode Jiraiya use Toad mouth trap to defend against an attack in a open field, so no he doesn't need an closed in space. Jiraiya could wrap killerbee in needle jinzo then use the hair as spikes to kill him. Jiraiya has many ways to summon Killerbee into a toads stomach, and once inside Killerbee would lose fast, because Jiraiya could use the walls of the toads stomach to trap killerbee while he restores his Sage Mode.
Not exactly, Toad Stomach changes the environment into a Toad's stomach. Well if you don't remember, I certainly don't. I don't think Toad mouth has been used that way.

So those attacks are a no go. There is no way to get Killerbee into a toad's stomach in an open environment.

Needle jinzo is a better attack and perhaps quick; however, if Killerbee is using his eight sword style infused with lightening chakra he should be able to defend himself and not only that but cut through all of Jiraiya hair style attacks. I think Jiraiya's best attack would be Kebari Senbon, but if Killerbee closes the distance fast enough that attack would be much less effective. Essentially Killerbee could stop it a the source rather than wait for a barrage of needles to come at him. Not to mention, with the one tails activated that would be enough to stop all low level attacks even if they are high speed and cover a large range.

[Tourune]

Ok, I did debate about Jiraiya beating him, but here you go.

Jiraiya, would start out using Barrier: Dome Method Formation, so he knows where Killerbee is when he attacks. He could then use Summoning: Crushing Toad Stomach, to Crash Killerbee inside the toad's Stomach, or could use Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind to trap Killerbee inside of the toad and use it to Slow killerbee down making Jiraiya speed greater, then use that speed to hit him with a super giant rasengan, he could also use the shadow clones to fight Killerbee while, jiraiya plans out an unavoidable attack. Once trapped inside the toads stomach, Jiraiya wont have any problem taking out Killerbee.

If you need any more info on how Jiraiya defeats him I will let you know.
In This location there's no were to hide. No Sommoning jutsu. Equal Speed. No Sommons

[Tourune]

Start off with Swamp of the underworld. Summon Gamabunta, cover the top of the swamp in oil. Set oil on fire. No more Killerbee.
Every argument you posted is restricted

[Tourune]

Crushing Toad Stomach is a summoning type jutsu, that summons the opponent into a toads stomach that crushs them. I also forget which episode Jiraiya use Toad mouth trap to defend against an attack in a open field, so no he doesn't need an closed in space. Jiraiya could wrap killerbee in needle jinzo then use the hair as spikes to kill him. Jiraiya has many ways to summon Killerbee into a toads stomach, and once inside Killerbee would lose fast, because Jiraiya could use the walls of the toads stomach to trap killerbee while he restores his Sage Mode.
No Sommons. The Hair wont be able to go through the Cloak. No Sommons. No Sommons. Ma + Pa are banned.

[Tourune]

They gather nature eneergy for him. If he's still, he can enter sage mode. You think to much. Just debate the match without compaints.

This on is so easy. If you have the right sources,you can make this debate easy. I debated one harder than this so don't complain.
Next time may i ask for a more chalenging one? with Danzo in it?

[Yellow Flash]

There is no need to post four times in a row. There is a thing called multi-quote, get to know it. Utilize it. Love it. Your basically spamming, and in a contest, which makes it even worse.

[Toad Master]

No Sommons. The Hair wont be able to go through the Cloak. No Sommons. No Sommons. Ma + Pa are banned.

It said no boss summons or Ma & Pa summoning, any other summoning is allowed. Like I said Toad Mouth Trap or Crushing Toad Stomach, and killerbee is dead. once inside Killerbee wont be able to get to Jiraiya because inside the toad Jiraiya can control the walls, crushing Killerbee. Plus Killerbee has nothing to get out of it since he isnt allowed to transform all the way.

[Wooster]

It said no boss summons or Ma & Pa summoning, any other summoning is allowed. Like I said Toad Mouth Trap or Crushing Toad Stomach, and killerbee is dead. once inside Killerbee wont be able to get to Jiraiya because inside the toad Jiraiya can control the walls, crushing Killerbee. Plus Killerbee has nothing to get out of it since he isnt allowed to transform all the way.
I think you're right that the stipulations allow these attacks; however, you have not address any of my points about why these would not work against Killerbee.

[Tourune]

There is no need to post four times in a row. There is a thing called multi-quote, get to know it. Utilize it. Love it. Your basically spamming, and in a contest, which makes it even worse.
Sorry king James

[Toad Master]

I think you're right that the stipulations allow these attacks; however, you have not address any of my points about why these would not work against Killerbee.


Crushing Toad Stomach would work on him, it would summon Killerbee into a taod once inside the walls will attack BEE while Jiraiya restore Sage mode. plus Kisame stated the speed of the walls attack was faster then both him & Itachi. While Killer Bee is trying to avoid the walls Jiraiya would hit him with a Super Rasengan. Jiraiya could also create shadow clones to attack BEE, Killer bee cant avoid that many attacks.

[Tourune]

Crushing Toad Stomach would work on him, it would summon Killerbee into a taod once inside the walls will attack BEE while Jiraiya restore Sage mode. plus Kisame stated the speed of the walls attack was faster then both him & Itachi. While Killer Bee is trying to avoid the walls Jiraiya would hit him with a Super Rasengan. Jiraiya could also create shadow clones to attack BEE, Killer bee cant avoid that many attacks.
Wait why are you still on Jiraya's side i picked him first`#(

[Wooster]

Crushing Toad Stomach would work on him, it would summon Killerbee into a taod once inside the walls will attack BEE while Jiraiya restore Sage mode. plus Kisame stated the speed of the walls attack was faster then both him & Itachi. While Killer Bee is trying to avoid the walls Jiraiya would hit him with a Super Rasengan. Jiraiya could also create shadow clones to attack BEE, Killer bee cant avoid that many attacks.
That's not how Toad Stomach works. It turns the environment into a Toad's stomach. Obviously, on the Hokage roof it would only be the ground and probably not the entire roof. Thus, it's easily avoidable by jumping and sitting on one of the pillars. Thus, Jiraiya has wasted an attack. Killerbee then can throw a few of his chakra infused blades Jiraiya.

Even if Killerbee was on the Toad's stomach, remember in cloaked mode he is faster than Kisame. Kisame's only defense in that case was sucking chakra not blocking or dodging Killerbee's attacks. I imagine the tailed cloak would also defend Killerbee form this attack. It does have to grab onto something and the cloak is rather caustic.

Secondly we have never seen Jiraiya use more than two shadow clones at a time. Once Killbeei is using a tailed cloak, low level attacks are easily blocked, such as standard taijutsu and all needle attacks from Kebari Senbon for example.

If Killerbee presses the attack with his eight sword style Jiraiya won't have time to use a Super Rasengan or at least hit Killerbee. It is still a rather slow attack.

Thus, a Lariat following a pressing attack should give Killerbee the victory.

Edit: Because I said they could Tourune.

[Tourune]

It said no boss summons or Ma & Pa summoning, any other summoning is allowed. Like I said Toad Mouth Trap or Crushing Toad Stomach, and killerbee is dead. once inside Killerbee wont be able to get to Jiraiya because inside the toad Jiraiya can control the walls, crushing Killerbee. Plus Killerbee has nothing to get out of it since he isnt allowed to transform all the way.

Crushing Toad Stomach would work on him, it would summon Killerbee into a taod once inside the walls will attack BEE while Jiraiya restore Sage mode. plus Kisame stated the speed of the walls attack was faster then both him & Itachi. While Killer Bee is trying to avoid the walls Jiraiya would hit him with a Super Rasengan. Jiraiya could also create shadow clones to attack BEE, Killer bee cant avoid that many attacks.
Toad Mouth Trap can only be used in a room because it needs to fully surrond the the other person and on a roof top that's not possible. Crushing Taod Stomatch is filler which is not allowed. the cloak protects Killer Bee from that. Filler. Ma + Pa arent allowed to restore Sage Mode.

I am swiching sides. I say Killer Bee because Killer Bee's Cloack will protect him from most of Jiraya's attacks. Also Killer Bee can use 7 Swords Dance, Jiraya will use Wild lions mane but Killer Bee can add lightning element to his swords to cut the hair leaving Jiraya with no counter to Killer bee's swords when there infused w/ lightning. Also the BIGGEST part of Jiraya's downfall is that Jiraya can only do a small amount of jutsu's before Sage Mode runs out, but Killer Bee's cloack will not run out until he calls it off.

Edit; Ok then ill come to your side Wooster

[Toad Master]

That's not how Toad Stomach works. It turns the environment into a Toad's stomach. Obviously, on the Hokage roof it would only be the ground and probably not the entire roof. Thus, it's easily avoidable by jumping and sitting on one of the pillars. Thus, Jiraiya has wasted an attack. Killerbee then can throw a few of his chakra infused blades Jiraiya.

Even if Killerbee was on the Toad's stomach, remember in cloaked mode he is faster than Kisame. Kisame's only defense in that case was sucking chakra not blocking or dodging Killerbee's attacks. I imagine the tailed cloak would also defend Killerbee form this attack. It does have to grab onto something and the cloak is rather caustic.

Secondly we have never seen Jiraiya use more than two shadow clones at a time. Once Killbeei is using a tailed cloak, low level attacks are easily blocked, such as standard taijutsu and all needle attacks from Kebari Senbon for example.

If Killerbee presses the attack with his eight sword style Jiraiya won't have time to use a Super Rasengan or at least hit Killerbee. It is still a rather slow attack.

Thus, a Lariat following a pressing attack should give Killerbee the victory.

Edit: Because I said they could Tourune.

i remember seeing on the show Jiraiya used it to cover himself and Naruto to avoid an attack. cant remember which episode. Killerbee's cloak can be token away with Jiraiya's Special Tag, which weakens Killerbee at the same time.

[Wooster]

i remember seeing on the show Jiraiya used it to cover himself and Naruto to avoid an attack. cant remember which episode. Killerbee's cloak can be token away with Jiraiya's Special Tag, which weakens Killerbee at the same time.
Sorry, I meant Toad Mouth in the above post. However, Toad Stomach is filler, so it's a no go.

[Jinchiruuki]

Debate is declared closed. Me and the judges will get on it asap.

[Lady Tsunade]

Jin, Im not sure Ill have time to judge this. Im working on a Triva thread for loads of the Naruto characters. So, you and Sasori might have to do this on your own :S

[Jinchiruuki]

So I honestly don't even have to read much here to know who wins. Wooster and Tourune..considering Wooster mainly was telling the opposing team how their sides abilities work along with presenting arguments that I didn't see fully countered. Tourune..you almost cost your team the victory by repeated double posting,spamming and wank...just a warning for next time.