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View Full Version : Magellan and Crocodile vs All of the Akutsuki (minus Kisame)


superman
05-09-2010, 10:00 AM
No Kisame for obvious reasons :D

Speed is equalized if necessarily

Sazabi24
05-09-2010, 10:01 AM
re-read Magellan vs. Blackbeard's crew.

superman
05-09-2010, 10:03 AM
re-read Magellan vs. Blackbeard's crew.
So your saying this is a cumberstomp unless we have Kisame on the Akutsuki?

Sazabi24
05-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Kisame can't get out his water dome in time.

superman
05-09-2010, 10:05 AM
Kisame can't get out his water dome in time.
Couldn't Deidara blast them alway with his C4?

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Disance?

Location?

Speed equalized if necessary well that will make a difference.

Nyruss
05-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Not unless he wewre suddenly a billion times faster. Unless that happens, he dies before he thinks of using it.

Sazabi24
05-09-2010, 10:07 AM
Couldn't Deidara blast them alway with his C4?

before or after he's hit by a Hydra that was launched out at a speed faster than that of a G2 Gomu Gomu Jet pistol.

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 10:08 AM
C4 affecting logias?

superman
05-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Disance?

Location?

Speed equalized if necessary well that will make a difference.
Ok I'll add those important statistics.

Anything else I should add to the OP of this thread?

Nyruss
05-09-2010, 12:24 PM
If you want the fight to be even, take away Crocodile and Magellan's Devil Fruit powers and make it so that they are ten year old asian girls who are blind, deaf, dumb and mildly retarded.

Sazabi24
05-09-2010, 12:26 PM
Also give marada the infinity gauntlet or something similar.

superman
05-09-2010, 12:33 PM
If you want the fight to be even, take away Crocodile and Magellan's Devil Fruit powers and make it so that they are ten year old asian girls who are blind, deaf, dumb and mildly retarded.
Come on guys speed is equalized and this battle takes place right at the edge of Konohagakure. Each side starts about 1km away from each other, and they do get Kisame.

Only Magellan is included.

Sazabi24
05-09-2010, 12:45 PM
...sigh...

time for my match:

Naruto vs. nuclear missile equipped submarine.

location: open ocean

Distance 100 miles

superman
05-09-2010, 01:04 PM
...sigh...

time for my match:

Naruto vs. nuclear missile equipped submarine.

location: open ocean

Distance 100 miles
That sounds too rapetastic, but this thread is not even anywhere as bad.

The_Nine_Sins
05-09-2010, 02:18 PM
Are you guys serious -.- I don't see how magellan and croc take this(Even though Magellan is my fave)

Itachi
+Tsukiyomi
+Amaterasu
+Susanoo w/ Yata's Mirror and Sword of Totsuka
+Katon Tech
+Genjutsu Tech
+Shadow Clone
+Shadow Clone Explosion
+Dusk Crow Genjutsu
Deidara
Explosives(Obviously)
+C1
+C2
+C3
+C4
+Hiding like a mole tech
Sasori
+Third Kazekage Puppet(Iron Sand Tech)
+Puppet army
+Hiruko
+Puppet Body
+Flame Throwers
+Water Blaster
Hidan
+Immortal
+Ritual of Jashin
+Long Range Sycthe
Kakuzu
+Five Hearts
+Elemental Spam
+Iron Skin
+Earth Grudge Fear
+Long Range Mode
Madara
+Teleport tech(makes every type of attack phase threw him)
+Telport Target to another Dimension
Konan
+Paper Swarm
+Paper Spear
+Can become many pieces of paper
Pein
+Rinnegan
+Linked Vision
(+Deva)
+Shinra Tensei
+Bansho Tennin
+Chibaku Tensei
(+Asura)
+A S*** load of weapons(rockets, blades,etc)
+ incredible Speed(blitz)
+ inhuman stregth
+Robotic/Puppet
(+Animal)
+Cerberus(The dog that multiplys)
+Hard beak summon
+Crab Summon
+ Chameleon Summon
+Panda Summon
+Rhino Summon
+Centipede summon
+Ram summon
(+ Preta)
Absorb Ninjutsu and chakra upon touch
(+Human)
+Mind reading
+Soul Rip(gg once in range)
(+Naraka)
King of Hell:revival tech
King of Hell: Interrogation Tech(Steals the soul of a target if they do not tell the truth and is paralyzed while in this tech.)

Magellan
+Hydra
+Venom Road
+ultimate Venom move(I forgot the name
Croc
+Sand pit
+Can turn into sand
+Erosion upon touch
+etc sand attacks
You guys really neglect all the akatsuki members feats and techniques.Pein can easily pwn this team, just by repelling mageallan's poison attacks and for crocs sand pit, Animal path summons like hard beak bird, can hover over it. All Pein has to do to kill them both is have human path get into contact range and rip their soul out from their body. asura is puppet/Machine, so i don't think he will be effected by poison if he touches mageallan. Asura can also just spam missiles and lasers at mageallan.If any of them happen to fall pein can resurrect teammates and and the other paths using king of hell.Cerberus can easily keep both distracted, and this is just the 6 paths, since you have all of akatsuki, they take the cake, you do not even consider the other characters skills and feats, such as madara, he can just tele behind croc and/or mageallan and tele them to a different dimension.Itachi can obviously take these two out using amaterasu, or tsukiyomi, tsukiyomi can utterly exhaust both of them seeing itach controls space time and mass of everything, and possibly kill them in the realm. Susanoo can easily pwn magellan using sword of Totsuka, and yata's mirror would deflect hydra, and Mageallan's ulti.Sasori would just rape mageallan using puppet army and iron sand.kakuzu has lond range mode and five hearts, meaning elemental attack spam and such and tendril impaling for mageallan.Deidara could bomb the hell out of Mageallan from up high. So I say Akatsuki win due to the fact madara can tele people to a different dimension, as well as pein and itachi seeing Susanno, tsukiyomi, and amaterasu rapes both of them, peins summons and instant deat soul rip along with shinra tensei rapes both of them, so lets see what you guys can come up with after reading this.

SageoftheSixPaths
05-09-2010, 02:24 PM
:/

Crocodile solos. Magellen solos. Usopp/I'm a useless sack of crap solos. Etc.

The only chance Akatsuki has is Madara warping, and he's not going to get that off without being Hydra'd to the FACE.

The_Nine_Sins
05-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Shira tensei buddy, seeing all human path has to is make contact and rip out his soul =gg, and all the Akatsuki will be working together, so i don't see how they solo, plus madara, can let attacks phase through him,madara's movement is instant as well.

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Ussop won't solo at all.

Akira Of Shiseiten
05-09-2010, 02:28 PM
Crocodile won't solo at all.

SageoftheSixPaths
05-09-2010, 02:28 PM
Shira tensei buddy, seeing all human path has to is make contact and rip out his soul =gg, and all the Akatsuki will be working together, sio i don't see how they solo.
Logia intangibility>Shinra Tensei.

Human Path is too slow. He also needs to get into close range to do that. One hit from either Magellan or Croc and he's dead.

Akira Of Shiseiten
05-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Logia intangibility>Shinra Tensei.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2lu6o2w.jpg

Shitstorm incoming.

SageoftheSixPaths
05-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Ussop won't solo at all.
It was a joke.
Crocodile won't solo at all.
How so? Nothing that Akatsuki has can hurt/hit him. He just sucks them dry one by one. Logia>NV.

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 02:30 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/2lu6o2w.jpg

Shitstorm incoming.

Indeed. http://i34.tinypic.com/2lu6o2w.jpg

Akira Of Shiseiten
05-09-2010, 02:31 PM
It was a joke.

How so? Nothing that Akatsuki has can hurt/hit him. He just sucks them dry one by one. Logia>NV.

Either Itachi or Kakuzu can pull off a Suiton.

Or Pein can use his Rain technique.

SageoftheSixPaths
05-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Either Itachi or Kakuzu can pull off a Suiton.

Or Pein can use his Rain technique.
Absorbed by Croc's right hand. They're not large or fast enough to get him.

Hurm. Forgot about that one. Props for picking out the single most obscure Jutsu ever.

The_Nine_Sins
05-09-2010, 02:34 PM
Like i said before as well you all forget the other members, Itachi can Tsukiyomi/ amaterasu/Susanoo=pwnage against croc, seeing amaterasu is nearly unavoidable, and Shinra Tensei is a wave of gravity I do not see how that ,Logia intangibility>Shinra Tensei, I do not think Logia intangibility can resist gravity.
And human path also just needs to make contact, seeing all the akatsuki members are working together, they can prove distraction.I also forget, pein has rinnegan, so no doublt he has copied lots of water tech, you also just base your conclusion on croc's and mageallan to one hitting instead of thinking out the battle, and what makes you think they will just stand there and let the attack happen? there is a saying "For Every Action is a Reaction, so what makes you think, they will let Croc or mageallan one hit them, or have their partners be one hit, kill.

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 02:41 PM
It was a joke.

How so? Nothing that Akatsuki has can hurt/hit him. He just sucks them dry one by one. Logia>NV.

I didn't realize a joke.

Well I don't know about the no restrictions one.

But with speed equalized I am sure Akatsuki can take it.

The_Nine_Sins
05-09-2010, 03:31 PM
So no one else replies to my last post?

321zigzag1
05-09-2010, 03:33 PM
The thing is Crocodile has shown greater movement speed to the point of at least blitzing some of them.

The_Nine_Sins
05-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Sharringan reads muscle movement as well so the instant Croc or mageallan would move Itachi could, Tsukiyomi Croc or Magallan, and with itachi Controlling space time and mass in tsukiyomi, croc or mageallan will most defiantly go down, this will effect Croc still since the pain is mental not physical.So i don't think Croc blitzing would do much good, especially if there are more then ten people. Sasori can take care of Croc with Water cannons and being a puppet, i do not think poison will effect him that much.

superman
05-09-2010, 09:08 PM
It seems like a good thing that I included a poll.

Anyways my opinion is that this battle could go either way. Originally I wanted to include Aokiji, Akainu, or Kizaru in this match up instead of Magellan but I thought that would be too much of a stomp for the OP side. Or would it make it more far for the NV side? Does anyone know?

Nyruss
05-09-2010, 09:18 PM
Magellan doesn't need to move to rape all of Akatsuki. His Hydra technique is fast enough to tag G2 Luffy, non? It doesn't matter if Sharingan can see muscle movements if Itachi can't react fast enough to save himself.

And Itachi doesn't control space time and mass within Tsukuyomi. What he controls is his target's senses which, it's generall agreed that Croc being a Logia would make him immune to genjutsu anyway, and Magellan doesn't need his senses to kill Akatsuki.

And Sasori being a puppet is meaningless because Magellan's poison is acidic, meaning Sasori will die one way or the other.

superman
05-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Magellan doesn't need to move to rape all of Akatsuki. His Hydra technique is fast enough to tag G2 Luffy, non? It doesn't matter if Sharingan can see muscle movements if Itachi can't react fast enough to save himself.

And Itachi doesn't control space time and mass within Tsukuyomi. What he controls is his target's senses which, it's generall agreed that Croc being a Logia would make him immune to genjutsu anyway, and Magellan doesn't need his senses to kill Akatsuki.

And Sasori being a puppet is meaningless because Magellan's poison is acidic, meaning Sasori will die one way or the other.
What about Kisame? And the CT and Deidara's C2 (the bomb that destroys supposedly 10 km of land)?

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 10:31 AM
You're thinking of C0, which is a suicide move.

Kisame and Pain are only threats if they live long enough to do anything. Which they won't.

321zigzag1
05-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Here is a way for Akatsuki to win.

Give them some distance.
Give them knowledge
Equalize speed.

You're thinking of C0, which is a suicide move.

Kisame and Pain are only threats if they live long enough to do anything. Which they won't.

Is Magellan a logia?

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 10:57 AM
No, his Devil Fruit is a Paramecia type

321zigzag1
05-10-2010, 11:03 AM
That is weird so he can be harmed normally.

One would think Poison is logia like in definition.

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 11:13 AM
He can be harmed but you'd need alot of power to do it, and even then you'd better have some sort of protection from incredibly painful and slow death causing poison. Even Luffy barely suvived it and his will power takes a big smelly dump on everyone in the Narutoverse put together.

321zigzag1
05-10-2010, 11:16 AM
So in theory if Magellen were to just stand there and each of the Akatsuki does something.

Amaterasu does nothing? Susanoo does nothing?
Fire/wind does nothing?
C3? C4 I am not sure.

Kisame and Pain are obvious.

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 11:20 AM
They might or might not. Magellan tends to wear alot of black, so Amaterasu ain't doin much. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

Wind won't do jack except to blow away some of his gas based poisons. Fire short of Amaterasu won't do anything.

DD won't use C3-4 in range of the others. I guess he might if he survived longer than any of them...

321zigzag1
05-10-2010, 11:24 AM
So Amaterasu will work. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

C3 and C4 will work. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

Ok thats all I need to know for theory basis only.

Akira Of Shiseiten
05-10-2010, 11:25 AM
Does Rain work on Poison? http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

Shiryuu of the Rain is equal to Magellan, if my deduction is correct then he used rain to fight Magellan. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Shiryu's rain > Pain's. http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/2z7exox.png

321zigzag1
05-10-2010, 11:30 AM
How huge was Shiryu's rain again?

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 11:31 AM
Multi-galaxy level easily. http://i39.tinypic.com/29gn6yq.gif

The_Nine_Sins
05-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Again Amaterasu=Hotter then the sun, and nearly unavoidable, meaning that basicly anything caught by it is going down, seeing any type of substance even liquid will evaporate or burn.
You forget tsukiyomi=3 days of torture in the realm of tsukiyomi for croc or magellan, by itach, control of mass space and time means itachi can basicly make anything in the realm, and possibly kill one of them.

Susanno=just one hit, meaning anyone stabbed by sword of Totsuka is going to be sealed in a eternal genjutsu, yata's mirror provides defense repelling any attack, and seeing itachi summoned susanno in less then a millisecond to block kirin, he can block hydra in time.

You forget madara, He can make all attacks phase through him, meaning hydra and crocs touch to drain water are useless, He may also just teleport croc to the middle of the ocean where he will get wet, and eventually drown.

Pein/pain, uses shinra tensei to repel hydra and croc pushing him back with gravity, and plus all the akatsuki members working together its unlikely that mageallan and croc can just simply one hit all of them. All the akatsuki members are smart, not dumb asses that will just let themselves die, and substitution and clones are still overlooked., instead of telling one hit TKO attacks rape Akatsuki in one blow tell me realisticly how this battle can take place, its two people facing 16 or more, so convince me on how mageallan and croc can win instead of one liner post stating one hit ko. It all seems you all underestimate the Akatsuki's teamwork as well as skills feat,etc.I can understand if it was goku and Vegeta vs akatsuki, seeing they can fly mass energy attacks godlike strength,and speed etc, but i always include the opposing side, feats and skill,.

Sazabi24
05-10-2010, 03:34 PM
Hyperbole fun.

The_Nine_Sins
05-10-2010, 03:37 PM
About my post or others?or possibly everyones? -.- and really you give my post negative rep...... for stating what I am trying to argue against.....

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 03:42 PM
About your post.

Amaterasu isn't hotter than the sun. Whoever told you it was was lying.

Tsukuyomi can't kill.

Itachi summoned Susanoo while Sasuke was monolouging, before he threw Kirin, not after.

Madara may be able to phase but he's still got to breathe, and in order to do anything other than stand there he has to become tangible and Magellan is more than fast enough to exploit that weakness.

You want to know how the fight goes I'll tell you, Magellan uses his hypersonic Hydras to kill Akatsuki dead until they die to death.

Sazabi24
05-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Amaterasu has never been proven to be as hot as the sun. It failed to burn Karin's cloak.

Sussano doesn't take a millisecond to summon. It's most likely that itachi summoned it during the 10 minutes when Sasuke was ranting beforehand.

ST can't hurt croc since it's a sudden burst not a prolonged burst. Croc, who can fly, can just change his course.

Also no one can react to hydra, since it was launched faster than a G2 jet pistol, which is at minimum, mach 14.

I doubt Tsukiyomi would be very useful when you have a river of acid in your eyes.

The_Nine_Sins
05-10-2010, 05:12 PM
Let me rephrase what my last post says "It is said to be hotter then the sun, and seeing it can burn for seven days even underwater and even burns normal flames its safe to say it can work on Mageallan. For Tsukiyomi, when I say possibly kill I mean knock him off the battle, seeing kakashi went down from exaustion, is enough for any other member to kill mageallan, and Hydra can be reacted to seeing luffy had dodged it, before in the fight, etc, so who to say no one can react to Hydra, shinra tensei doesn't have to hurt, it can repel and knockback, meaning this could give distance. for every action there is a reaction. Now you say poison gas can get Madara, remember it takes just one move to get rid of one of them, with madara, seeing he can just teleport them to the sea or somewhere random, you do also remember that fight with Danzo's subordinates the guy with nano-insects got Madara's arm, but he clearly ripped it off and had a new arm afterwards, so whos to say madara can't do the same with other body parts that are infected. Also, i'd like to add that poison might not effect pein/pain, seeing they are dead, and only move and use tech because of chakra receivers. As for mageallan's hydra, it needs time to emerge from mageallan, and seeing mageallan changes appearance, who says the Akatsuki won't do something, croc can be in danger of these attacks too, seeing he is probably close to mageallan he would have to change to sand or keep his distance from mageallan. Sasori's 100 puppets can take care of Mageallan as well if he summons them early on, and seeing puppets aren't really affected by poison, it will be unaffective to the swarm of puppets.Also Preta path could probably absorb hydra, seeing he did with jairaiya's mud fire/etc wave attack. Amaterasu would melt the sand of Croc into a superheated and malleable glass mass, upon cooling, could not move or it would shatter. Mach 14 is a very controversial subject many reliable governmental scientist say that speed although listed is unattainable, just like a paying off a trillion dollar deficit is listed but unattainable. Concurrently, launching an attack, object, etc. at Mach 14 would be breaking the sound barrier 14 times exponentially, sending the ultimate destructive force(sonic boom) back to the offending party or person launching the attack. One question, can luffy run the speed of mach 14 because he outran and dodged the hydra attack a couple times?

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 05:57 PM
Hydra can be reacted to seeing luffy had dodged it, before in the fight, etc, so who to say no one can react to Hydra,

I didn't say no one could react to Hydra, I said no one in Akatsuki could react to Hydra. Just because Luffy can do something doesn't mean anyone in Akatsuki is capable of replicating it.

for every action there is a reaction.

Example:

Action: You say something stupid.
Reaction: I call you an idiot.

This is just an example, I am not currently at this time calling you an idiot, but it remains to be seen whether this will remain to be.

with madara, seeing he can just teleport them to the sea or somewhere random 1: Prove to me that Madara is capable of translocating people somewhere other than his own little dimension.

2: Since no location is specified the fight takes place in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, in which there are no oceans, so either way any proof you might have(of which there is none) is irrelevant.

3: Prove to me he can do it before he gets the crap murdered out of him by Magellan.

you do also remember that fight with Danzo's subordinates the guy with nano-insects got Madara's arm, but he clearly ripped it off and had a new arm afterwards, so whos to say madara can't do the same with other body parts that are infectedSo you have definitive proof that Madara is capable of healing himself of poison by ripping out his lungs and regenerating new ones? I welcome it.

Also, i'd like to add that poison might not effect pein/pain, seeing they are dead, and only move and use tech because of chakra receiversMagellan's poison is acidic. Nice try.

croc can be in danger of these attacks too,Something tells me that Magellan wouldn't care.

Sasori's 100 puppets can take care of Mageallan as well if he summons them early onOnly in your fantasy world.

and seeing puppets aren't really affected by poison, it will be unaffective to the swarm of puppets.What part of "acidic" do you not understand?

Also Preta path could probably absorb hydra, seeing he did with jairaiya's mud fire/etc wave attack Preta Path absorbs chakra based techniques. Prove to me that Hydra is chakra based.


Mach 14 is a very controversial subject many reliable governmental scientist say that speed although listed is unattainable, just like a paying off a trillion dollar deficit is listed but unattainable.

And the award for most useless and irrelevant comment goes to...


Concurrently, launching an attack, object, etc. at Mach 14 would be breaking the sound barrier 14 times exponentially, sending the ultimate destructive force(sonic boom) back to the offending party or person launching the attack. Fiction, genius. If sonic booms are portrayed at all, it will only be as an aesthetic effect. Accordingly, consequently, hence, in consequence, so, then, therefore, thereupon, thus and/or thusly you have done nothing but waste my time for which I would neg you had I not already done so.

superman
05-10-2010, 06:36 PM
You're thinking of C0, which is a suicide move.

Kisame and Pain are only threats if they live long enough to do anything. Which they won't.
You realize that Crocodile and Magellan can't just blitz the Akutsuki. And what makes you think Crocodile and Magellan are THAT FAST (as in hypersonic fast)? I think you are over-rating their speed, and it has been equalized for the a reason (so that neither sides can get blitz by the other. That way this battle is just the comparison of other abilities).

Sazabi24
05-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Hydra is hypersonic. Magellan is at most supersonic.

If you were to equalize attack speed a fight involving a soldier vs. a sumo. The soldier's bullets would have their speed reduced to that of a sumo's punch. Highly illogical.

superman
05-10-2010, 06:56 PM
Hydra is hypersonic. Magellan is at most supersonic.

If you were to equalize attack speed a fight involving a soldier vs. a sumo. The soldier's bullets would have their speed reduced to that of a sumo's punch. Highly illogical.
Where's the proof that Magellan's Poison Hydras are indeed hypersonic? And your saying Magellan and Crocodile are already by default no faster than the Akutsuki? In that case, I guess equalizing their movement speed isn't that helpful.

Sazabi24
05-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Read Luffy vs. Magellan, Magellan gets off a hydra in the middle of a Jet pistol.

Sasori_X
05-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Why are you giving the akatsuki a handicap when they were already handicapped going against Magellan and Crocodile from the start?

superman
05-10-2010, 07:36 PM
Why are you giving the akatsuki a handicap when they were already handicapped going against Magellan and Crocodile from the start?
So your saying Magellan and Crocodile are already slower (movement speed wise) than the Akutsuki and by equalizing speed Akutsuki looses their one and only handicap?

Then I will remove that handicap for the Akutsuki to make this match much more interesting. btw we already know the location has been set at the outskirts of Konohagakure. Each side starts at opposite ends of the village (which is probably 1-2 km apart IIRC).

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 07:38 PM
Magellan and Crocodile are faster than anyone in Akatsuki. Speed equalized is the only chance Akatsuki has of not getting horribly horribly raped.

superman
05-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Magellan and Crocodile are faster than anyone in Akatsuki. Speed equalized is the only chance Akatsuki has of not getting horribly horribly raped.
Fine than they get speed equalization. I am not sure how we came up with the conclusion they are much faster than Akutsuki though.

Nyruss
05-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Is that all speed or just movement speed?

Because Akatsuki gets raped if it's not all speed, and if it is all speed Akatsuki rapes.

This is overall a bad thread and there are no amount of rule changes that can really make up for that fact.

superman
05-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Is that all speed or just movement speed?

Because Akatsuki gets raped if it's not all speed, and if it is all speed Akatsuki rapes.

This is overall a bad thread and there are no amount of rule changes that can really make up for that fact.
Ok I see. This thread is bad...