Strike Freedom Gundam vs. vs. Wing Zero Custom Gundam

[Kuroda Taishi]

Kira vs. Heero version 2. Battle is in open space. Both bloodlusted. Who wins?

[321zigzag1]

I believe Gundam wins.

Please pardon my trolling.

[Kuroda Taishi]

No pardons for you sir, xD

[321zigzag1]

So I guess this thread can end now since my answer is very sufficient and no one can counter it.

[Kuroda Taishi]

So I guess this thread can end now since my answer is very sufficient and no one can counter it.

What happens if it is a tie?

[321zigzag1]

The word Tie doesn't exist in my world.

Anyway you should check out the Stickied Debate Signup thread if you wish.

[zebrakiller]

problem here is zeros feats arent great, aside from the rifle. i mean its only got the wing vulcans and sabre to supplement and hasnt taken on a suit of SF's calibre. epyons probly not even as good. id say meleeing with altron while reentering is a better feat than vs. epyon too, despite all the damage heero took.

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Wing Zero Custom.

Heero is a better pilot, Zero system, and Wing Zero Custom is more powerful and durable.

Quite easy to see the outcome of this one.

[paulatreides0]

problem here is zeros feats arent great, aside from the rifle. i mean its only got the wing vulcans and sabre to supplement and hasnt taken on a suit of SF's calibre. epyons probly not even as good. id say meleeing with altron while reentering is a better feat than vs. epyon too, despite all the damage heero took.

Zero custom is essentially the same as the Zero, with maybe a more powerful rifle and better stats. Also, Kira has nothing capable of blocking the TBR to even the smallest degree.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Wing Zero Custom.

Heero is a better pilot, Zero system, and Wing Zero Custom is more powerful and durable.

Quite easy to see the outcome of this one.

Again you failed to give any evidence of this.

[zebrakiller]

Zero custom is essentially the same as the Zero, with maybe a more powerful rifle and better stats. Also, Kira has nothing capable of blocking the TBR to even the smallest degree.
I dont think TBR will factor in that much tho. Kiras quick enough to dodge it and unlike, all the random grunt aries/taurus/virgo suits, SF won't blow up if the beam comes within his general vicinity... heero'd have to tag him proper. this another one that would end up sabre combat...

[paulatreides0]

unlike, all the random grunt aries/taurus/virgo suits, SF won't blow up if the beam comes within his general vicinity... heero'd have to tag him proper.

....Why not?

[Kuroda Taishi]

....Why not?

Phase Shift Armor.

[paulatreides0]

Phase Shift Armor.

Which only protects you from solid weaponry, not beam weaponry....

[Kuroda Taishi]

Which only protects you from solid weaponry, not beam weaponry....

Since when? It can protect from both.

[paulatreides0]

Since when? It can protect from both.

Since always.

No, it can't or else CE suits would be invulnerable to everything. PS only guards against solid weaponry and such. The only time you see PS armor actually deflect beams is on something like GENESIS, which is a huge structure with many huge powerplants anyway.

No MS or MA has been shown to be able to deflect beams 'via PS armor.....

[zebrakiller]

Phase Shift Armor.
this combined with antibeam shield.

[paulatreides0]

this combined with antibeam shield.

Lolwhat? Like I said before, PS would do absolutely nothing against beam weapons.

Also, TBR=casual colony buster. Even LM agrees that there is no way in hell any MS shown in CE or any Gundam at that could tank a TBR. This thing can destroy colonies. You know the huge superstructures in Space made of metal and advanced tech that can easily stretch for several thousands kms. This thing can one-shot them.

[zebrakiller]

Lolwhat? Like I said before, PS would do absolutely nothing against beam weapons.

Also, TBR=casual colony buster. Even LM agrees that there is no way in hell any MS shown in CE or any Gundam at that could tank a TBR. This thing can destroy colonies. You know the huge superstructures in Space made of metal and advanced tech that can easily stretch for several thousands kms. This thing can one-shot them.
yes we're all well aware of this... by antibeam shield i mean the shields they carry with antibeam coating similar to lightwave barriers on the ships, separate from the VPS. SF has one does it not?

[paulatreides0]

yes we're all well aware of this... by antibeam shield i mean the shields they carry with antibeam coating similar to lightwave barriers on the ships, separate from the VPS. SF has one does it not?

......I don't know whether to laugh or cry........

[zebrakiller]

why not both?

[Kuroda Taishi]

Lolwhat? Like I said before, PS would do absolutely nothing against beam weapons.

Also, TBR=casual colony buster. Even LM agrees that there is no way in hell any MS shown in CE or any Gundam at that could tank a TBR. This thing can destroy colonies. You know the huge superstructures in Space made of metal and advanced tech that can easily stretch for several thousands kms. This thing can one-shot them.

We never said it could tank it. We said that if beam missed, but was still pretty close SF would not just explode like all the fodder in GW.

I'm pretty sure I have seen PS protect against beam shots before.

[paulatreides0]

why not both?
Because you are so bad I don't know whether to lose hope in humanity or laugh at you...

The SF doesn't have anti-beam coated shields, it has beam shields which far surpass anything that a normal shield has ever done, and even that won't do anything against this.

We never said it could tank it. We said that if beam missed, but was still pretty close SF would not just explode like all the fodder in GW.

I'm pretty sure I have seen PS protect against beam shots before.

No, PS has never protected against beams before. Genesis could do it, but it took a shitload of power, more than any MS is capable of producing.

The Forbidden Gundam could as well, but that wasn't because of PS:
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/SEED/gat-x252.htm

The close combat mode also features the "Geschmeidig Panzer" armor system, which can deflect and redirect beams. The system uses a colloid gas filled with beam-deflecting particles, which are held in place by the magnetic charge generated by the shields.

And even that wouldn't be able to do jack ;);););) to the TBR's Beam. Nor could the Destroy's Beam Shields, nor could the SF's.

[zebrakiller]

SF doesnt need to tank a tbr blast so its irrelevant, zero can't spam it left right centre and isnt accurate enough to tag him with it...

[paulatreides0]

SF doesnt need to tank a tbr blast so its irrelevant, zero can't spam it left right centre and isnt accurate enough to tag him with it...

You do know that the thing is so powerful that its shockwave and surrounding heat would still kill Kira if the beam is within close enough proximity, right?

[Crimson King]

SF doesnt need to tank a tbr blast so its irrelevant, zero can't spam it left right centre and isnt accurate enough to tag him with it...
What?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_7fzWJdSP4

"Wing Zero's aim is accurate to 100th of a unit"

[paulatreides0]

What?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_7fzWJdSP4

"Wing Zero's aim is accurate to 100th of a unit"

:lmao, son of a ;););););), I was looking for that. You beat me to it! xD

[zebrakiller]

What?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_7fzWJdSP4

"Wing Zero's aim is accurate to 100th of a unit"
touche...on a static target. im sure kira will hold still while kira punches the numbers and takes aim... look how long it took him to steady the crosshairs on libra. moving target, decidedly less accuracy.

[paulatreides0]

touche...on a static target. im sure kira will hold still while kira punches the numbers and takes aim... look how long it took him to steady the crosshairs on libra. moving target, decidedly less accuracy.
Hero has already proven himself a pretty goodshot anyhow...

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_7fzWJdSP4

You see that shockwave at 1:55 and all the enemies a few meters away from the actual beam assploding? Yeah, that's what can happen to Kira if he's within just a few meters of the beam....

Also, you know a weapon is overpowered when it can destroy your MS just from firing it and it can cause an explosion comparable to at least a small nuke :zaru

[Kuroda Taishi]

You see that shockwave at 1:55 and all the enemies a few meters away from the actual beam assploding? Yeah, that's what can happen to Kira if he's within just a few meters of the beam....

A shockwave will not destroy Kira because of the PS.

[paulatreides0]

A shockwave will not destroy Kira because of the PS.

A shockwave and heat which can easily blow up suits made of Gundarium which should be able to survive small Nuclear Explosions.... (taking into account that Gundanium has tanked less than Gundarium and it has survived small nukes)

And if that doesn't work, then the EM interference will just overload Kira's circuits, and boom he goes :awesome

[Kuroda Taishi]

A shockwave and heat which can easily blow up suits made of Gundarium

So you are saying all of the Fodder machines in GW were made of Gundarium? I don't think so.

[Crimson King]

So you are saying all of the Fodder machines in GW were made of Gundarium? I don't think so.
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/index.htm

The MMS-01 Serpent, like its Leo (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/oz-06ms.htm) predecessor, was a versatile mobile suit capable of being equipped for both space and land combat. Built of the new-and-improved neo-titanium alloy, the Serpent was physically almost as tough as the gundanium-armored Gundams, but much less expensive to produce. Armed with shoulder missile launchers, the Serpent could also carry a variety of hand-carried weapons, such as a bazooka, a large beam cannon or a double-barreled Gatling gun similar to that carried by the XXXG-01H2 Gundam Heavyarms Kai (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-01h2.htm). Since the Earth Sphere United Nation had scrapped all of its military weapons - including mobile suits - the Serpent was not armed with any hand-to-hand combat weapons.

[paulatreides0]

So you are saying all of the Fodder machines in GW were made of Gundarium? I don't think so.

Lol Virgo:
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/oz-02md.htm

Lol Virgo II:
http://www.mahq.net/Mecha/Gundam/w/wf-02md.htm

Armor materials: gundanium alloy

[zebrakiller]

Hero has already proven himself a pretty goodshot anyhow...

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_7fzWJdSP4

You see that shockwave at 1:55 and all the enemies a few meters away from the actual beam assploding? Yeah, that's what can happen to Kira if he's within just a few meters of the beam....

Also, you know a weapon is overpowered when it can destroy your MS just from firing it and it can cause an explosion comparable to at least a small nuke :zaru
yeah ive seen this vid a thousand times, its my favourite scene from probly any gundam series. the point is the target was big and stationary, not very impressive. the serpents, even tho based off heavy arms, are nowhere near as durable as SF. and the only reason zero blew apart was from the damage it sustained dueling with wufei through atmospheric re-entry, plus the water damage and pressure from sinking to the ocean floor, and then finally the kickback from the buster over two successive shots. i'll admit i didnt know even the virgos were gundanium tho...thats retarded.

[Kuroda Taishi]

I see your point, but according to that site the Freedom materials are unknown. Therefore you cannot 100% say that a shockwave will destroy it.

[paulatreides0]

I see your point, but according to that site the Freedom materials are unknown. Therefore you cannot 100% say that a shockwave will destroy it.

SF was only able to survive re-entry because of PS. Gundarium-equipped suits can survive re-entry without assistance. It can melt through Gundarium.

[paulatreides0]

yeah ive seen this vid a thousand times, its my favourite scene from probly any gundam series. the point is the target was big and stationary, not very impressive.
Except that they were referring to where it had hit relative to the first shot. Which is why they commented on it after the second shot. When they said that they meant he had only been off from his original shot by a 1/100th unit. That is impressive especially with a gun as massive and with as much kickback as the TBR.

the serpents, even tho based off heavy arms, are nowhere near as durable as SF.
Okay, now I just have to see proof of this. Please do prove that the SF can tank more than a Gundarium-equipped suits without PS. Please show me it can tank masses of missiles and bullets without PS, survive reentry without PS, and there are even some cases of it actually tanking some beam attacks.

and the only reason zero blew apart was from the damage it sustained dueling with wufei
Except that the suit didn't blow up until it fired the TBR. And it only did so after each time fired. The TBR makes huge shockwaves that affect even the MS shooting it, as you can observe by the kickback.

through atmospheric re-entry,
Except that original Wing Gundam re-entered space unassisted and unscathed, so that's BS.

plus the water damage and pressure from sinking to the ocean floor,
Which was is also something that the original Wing did without any problems...

and then finally the kickback from the buster over two successive shots.
Three.

i'll admit i didnt know even the virgos were gundanium tho...thats retarded.
No..it isn't...at all. The Virgos were made to be able to fight the world and the Gundams. Having better armor and weaponry is a given and necessary in war. Don't blame anyone but yourself for what you don't know.

[zebrakiller]

Except that they were referring to where it had hit relative to the first shot. Which is why they commented on it after the second shot. When they said that they meant he had only been off from his original shot by a 1/100th unit. That is impressive especially with a gun as massive and with as much kickback as the TBR.


Okay, now I just have to see proof of this. Please do prove that the SF can tank more than a Gundarium-equipped suits without PS. Please show me it can tank masses of missiles and bullets without PS, survive reentry without PS, and there are even some cases of it actually tanking some beam attacks.


Except that the suit didn't blow up until it fired the TBR. And it only did so after each time fired. The TBR makes huge shockwaves that affect even the MS shooting it, as you can observe by the kickback.


Except that original Wing Gundam re-entered space unassisted and unscathed, so that's BS.
zero had its armour damaged by altron before they started re-entry and they were straining on each other while coming in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfQH86xbOg he also got sliced up decent by nataku... whereas wing was already in the high atmosphere before it had any enemy contact, as in zechs leo.

Which was is also something that the original Wing did without any problems...


Three.
it blew up on the third shot... therefore kickback from 1 n 2 damaged it enough to fall apart on 3...

No..it isn't...at all. The Virgos were made to be able to fight the world and the Gundams. Having better armor and weaponry is a given and necessary in war. Don't blame anyone but yourself for what you don't know.
i wasnt blaming anyone for anything, stating a fact...

in blue or teal or turquoise or w/e u like... are u using gundarium and gundanium interchangeably?

[paulatreides0]

zero had its armour damaged by altron before they started re-entry and they were straining on each other while coming in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfQH86xbOg he also got sliced up decent by nataku... whereas wing was already in the high atmosphere before it had any enemy contact, as in zechs leo.
Except that the Wing Zero Custom is nowhere near as damaged in that shot as it is when it arrived at the place.

it blew up on the third shot... therefore kickback from 1 n 2 damaged it enough to fall apart on 3...
It was still intact before it took the last shot and exploded only after the last shot had been delivered.

are u using gundarium and gundanium interchangeably?
Seeing as they are a letter apart, probably typos.

[zebrakiller]

Except that the Wing Zero Custom is nowhere near as damaged in that shot as it is when it arrived at the place.


It was still intact before it took the last shot and exploded only after the last shot had been delivered.


Seeing as they are a letter apart, probably typos.
my point is if zero hadnt have taken that initial damage from the altron battle n such the tbr wouldnt have ripped it apart... and did u not see the whole left half of its body blow off after the 2nd shot?

[paulatreides0]

my point is if zero hadnt have taken that initial damage from the altron battle n such the tbr wouldnt have ripped it apart... and did u not see the whole left half of its body blow off after the 2nd shot?

An arm and a wing, not the whole left half of it. Also, what does this even have to do with the debate at hand??

[zebrakiller]

An arm and a wing, not the whole left half of it. Also, what does this even have to do with the debate at hand??
we did get a bit sidetracked, but the point is that tbr is not THAT overpowered as to be able to clean SF away from the shockwave of the blast... it also shows that if zero takes any damage from SF, his tbr firing capacity will be severely hindered...

[paulatreides0]

we did get a bit sidetracked, but the point is that tbr is not THAT overpowered as to be able to clean SF away from the shockwave of the blast... it also shows that if zero takes any damage from SF, his tbr firing capacity will be severely hindered...

Please provide proof that it can survive it. I've already provided proof that it can't.

WZ can tank beam saber cuts and come out with dents. As well as that It takes a lot more to hurt a Wing Gundam than a normal one. As well as that you've yet to prove that the damage is as you say it is.

http://www.staats.us/sonle/ew_wing_zero_custom.jpg
Compare that to what it looked like when Wufei downed it, this is much more damaged.

[zebrakiller]

heeros cockpit got rattled from a little sabre slash across the chest...damaged the circuitry. looking for proper SF tanking feat...man i hate seeds pink explosions...

[paulatreides0]

You mean the Beam Trident built on a suit especially for melee and that could outpreform and overpower every other suit in that cateragory? Oh, for shame! :C

/sarcasm

Not to mention that electricity stuff you see doesn't even signify significant damage. Hell, Haman did that to Scirocco using sheer NT pressure and they both got off fine. It's a common form of showing you've been hit in mecha, but doesn't necessarily mean much.

[zebrakiller]

You mean the Beam Trident built on a suit especially for melee and that could outpreform and overpower every other suit in that cateragory? Oh, for shame! :C

/sarcasm

Not to mention that electricity stuff you see doesn't even signify significant damage. Hell, Haman did that to Scirocco using sheer NT pressure and they both got off fine. It's a common form of showing you've been hit in mecha, but doesn't necessarily mean much.
yeah but it was just a love tap that did measurable damage...

ok best ive got for SF is against destroy, when she fired all the main chest beams n kira darted through them unscathed...not saying the shockwave generated from those combined blasts would be quite as strong as tbr, but its enough to not get pumped by the shockwave. i still say VPS at full should be enough to stop the physical force of the blast and keep SF damage free, along with the spiderweb beam shield thing...

[paulatreides0]

Except that the Destroy never showed those kinds of features either. Anything it killed was a direct hit or due to the explosion when the beam hit the ground. You can't compare the two at all....

As for the Love Tap it was an actual hit, it just didn't go through all the way, and it sheered off part the green part of the chest....