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zerosameri
04-12-2010, 07:59 PM
I don't care how damn solid-good your theory is, Madara = Tobi.

Obito is under zillion of Pound of bounders this whole body is smashed.


Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan
Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what
Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic
Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.
All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.
All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job
When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.
All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.
Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now
Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point
Kisame knows Madara is Madara
Kabuto knows Madara is Madara
And if there is any Elders left they know Madara is Madara
Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*
Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.
Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan
Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about


Madara's body is NOT in the coffin, and Obito is NOT Madara. Let it go people.

Edit: for lulz here is a wall of tex
-Madara is over 100 years old wail Obtio would only be in his mid 30's right now

-The Tablet that is in the Uchiha Temple thing. Only very few people knew about. They were only Uchiha's and very high up in the clan. Madara and Itachi said that only 3 known (I think) people were able to read it. It's sad that 1st you'll need the Basic 3 Toma sharingan, then the MS, then the EMS, and the Rinnegan. The tablet explains all of what Rikudo went throw and the Juubi. When the uchiha found out how to get the EMS only a very few knew about the Tablet. And Assuming that the Tablet gives more information As you get higher on the Sharigan chart, Madara is the only one that knows about the Juubi and Rikudo's secrets Origonal Naruto right befor Sasuke left the Village

-He did say he was only a shell of him old self so of cores he is going to be weaker, so did Itachi ______ and chapter 401

-Madara was the clan leader and an Anbu. As the clan leader you know everything about the Uchiha's, what the Village thinks of you, and your plans. Madara seems to know every last detail about them and he has flash backs that only he could have due to his clan position as the leader chapter 396 page 14 through chapter 401

-When Izuna gave his MS to Madara everyone was saying how he stole it from him, along that to gain the EMS you need someone else MS. As Madara said that his brother willing gave it to him. That said him and his brother was extremely strong, so clearly it would be hard to steal his brother's eye. Madara said that he loved his brother dearly and when ever someone brings him up he gets ticked.

-It has been shown multiple times, Madara with his ANBU mask. And I don't think anyone would try to seal the ANBU, Leader of the Uchiha's clan mask.

-It was said that the 1st and Madara founded Konha (the statues at the Final Valley proves that). Now Madara was saying that him and the 1st had an long battle over who would be the Hokage of the new land. Now wail all of the senju's and uchiha fighting it is impossible to try to say what Madara said about the fight, unless you wanted to die and not pay any attention to your fight. chapter 398 page 16-19 and chapter 399 page 2

-Madara was explaining the hate between the two clans and how the leaders of the clan were trying to make a peace agreement. Now that treaty they were making was probably top secret at the time. And until they made the agreement not a word was shed of that so there wouldn't be any confusion. Now Madara was the clan leader so of cores he knows all of this. Anyone else, they wouldn't know of this

-Itachi set it when Sasuke see's Madara's sharinagn his ammy would go off. Guess what, it went off.
chapter 397

-All of the flash backs the contain new info about Madara has been consistent with his current self

-Only 7 people knew of what happened when Itachi killed his clan. Danzou, the 2 elders, Sasuke, Itachi, and the 3rd. Madara told Sasuke what happened, it matched up to what Itachi told him. chapter 398

-There is no way Madara can have his wear house of eye's if he wasn't there t help Itachi kill the clan. The only people that were going to kill the clan was Itachi and Madara. No one else was there to kill them. Madara has 108 sharingan he say's he likes to stalk up on them and there is no way he could of gotten all of them unless he was there the nigh him and Itachi killed the clan

-By Itachi making it so Sasuke's ammy goes off when he see's Madara's sharingan. Is saying that Itachi knew he was still alive. last few pages of chapter 396 and chapter 397 page 8

-Kisame knew something about Madara that he didn't want anyone to know. If Madara was dead he wouldn't have killed him self to protect that secret. Chapter 507

-When Tsunade was informed 'A mask man is behind all of this. We think it might be Madara' She wasn't surprised it was like she also knew he was alive The Pain arc

-Only 3 people have a space time jutsu. Minato, Madara and the 2nd. Chapter 500 I think

-Madara had a flash back explaining the fight he had with the 1st. and he had the Kyuubi with him too. What he said corresponds to what Kushina was telling Naruto about how Minato and her feel in love (the part were her sister married the 1st and she was the Kyuubi's host, and then she had died when Madara took the Kyuubi.) chapter 399

-Tobi clearly knew everything about Madara, when Madara him self was of said to have been forgotten and anything about him was gone/disappeared. chapter 399

-It was shown and confirmed that Izuna is dead. chapter 399

-When Madara took off his mask to show Kisame his face. Kisame knew he was Madara

His time line
-Killed Izuna to get his EMS (well Izuna gave his eye's to him)
-Had a conference with the higher up Uchiha's around this time
-Became an ANBU some wear near this time *I think
-Madara was the leader of the Uchiha's
-Madara fought the 1st for Hokage tittle at The Vally of The End
-The senju's and uchiha had a treaty to stop fighting
-Used/fought with the kyuubi and the 1st hokage
-Was said to have been 'disappeared'
-Met Nagato and gave him the Rinnegan
-Told Nagato or Yahiko to make the Akatsuki
-cut his hair around this time
-Became the Mizukage around this time
-Madara stole baby Naruto
-Madara summoned the Kyuubi
-Madara controlled the Kyuubi
-Some time between these to he made the Akatsuki
-Some time between these Something happens with his body
-Madara helped Itachi kill his clan
-Gathered all the Good sharingan and made his wear house
-Left the Leaf Village
-Madara became Tobi
-Madara gathered Sasuke
-Told Sasuke about the trueth of Itachi and some what the truth of Kyuubi attack 16 years ago
-Told Naruto about the Senju and Uchiha
-Madara declared war on the world
-Madara was scared when he saw the person in the coffin
---

Madara's Sharingan shield thing he had in the last page (511), proves he is Madara. I mean for real. He had that threw out 99% of his flash backs. Clearly Madara is Madara.

Wooster
04-12-2010, 08:07 PM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.

katsu uchiha
04-12-2010, 08:08 PM
obito is dead, end of story

zerosameri
04-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.
Yea he could. But what would be want with a no good weak kid that just got his 2 Toma sharingan *what power Kabuto wants Obito is nothing*

Kabuto could summon Obito. But Obito is not Madara.

-

I know, but people don't get that. :| and yet no matter how you put it to them they still say Obito is Madara OMG :|

Kakashi-sama
04-12-2010, 08:19 PM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

1. Why would Kabuto wants to summon Obito?
2. Why would Madara be surprised to see Obito? (unless they have a secret relationship that we readers dont knw about, but that's least likely to happen)

3littlepigs
04-12-2010, 08:37 PM
I don't care how damn solid-good your theory is Madara = Madara.

Obito is under zillion of Pound of bounders this whole body is smashed.


Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan
Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what
Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic
Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.
All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.
All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job
When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.
All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.
Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now
Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point
Kisame knows Madara is Madara
Kabuto knows Madara is Madara
And if there is any Elders left they know Madara is Madara
Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*
Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.
Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan
Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about


Madara's body is NOT in the coffen, and Obito is NOT Madara. Let it go peopel.
Not sure you had to sound that frustrated in your post but I do agree with you that it should be impossible for Obito to be alive even if this is a manga we're talking about. He's dead all right although I do disagree with you saying that Madara's body is not in the coffin.

Since I'm an Itachi fan I want to believe that if he was sure Tobi is Madara then it must be but it could still happen that Tobi isn't Madara and the real Madara was summoned by Kabuto hence his shocked expression. If it wasn't the real Madara then I'm betting on it being the Sage..I don't see who else could scare him like that and whoever it was either had proof or was proof that Tobi/Madara's lying about something pretty important...:|

Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.

Even if Kabuto summoned Obito....what use would it be? Someone who was evidently weaker than Kakashi wouldn't scare Madara at all (well if we're still assuming Madara is the real Madara)

I'm honestly not sure Kishi would mind if it was a plot hole as long as he likes where the story's going....:shock:

Phoenix Wright
04-12-2010, 08:41 PM
Wow, read my entire damn thread before making stupid threads like this. You know you could have put that in my thread instead of making your own, or were you to scared because you were in my turf? Happy, now there's people defending you. I could give a crap, I'll debate until Kishi disproves every small point in my theory. Your OP was already countered pages ago in my thread.

Wooster
04-12-2010, 08:56 PM
I think everyone missed my point. Kabuto, of course, wouldn't revive Obito. He just could.


I'm honestly not sure Kishi would mind if it was a plot hole as long as he likes where the story's going....:shock:
I know that. Itachi Twist.;)

Cyl
04-12-2010, 08:58 PM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.
Why would Kabuto want to summon Obito? A kid with almost no feats or no use at all.

zerosameri
04-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Wow, read my entire damn thread before making stupid threads like this. You know you could have put that in my thread instead of making your own, or were you to scared because you were in my turf? Happy, now there's people defending you. I could give a crap, I'll debate until Kishi disproves every small point in my theory. Your OP was already countered pages ago in my thread.
I read every page in your thread befor I made this. I had your thread in minde, but even if I posted this in your thread not has many people will read this.

And I'll be happy to post this in your thread too.

Phoenix Wright
04-13-2010, 01:23 AM
Thanks, but also its not that hard to get the posting curse, like someone posted this long explanation in my thread, I doubt anyone but me would read it.

What I do sometimes to avoid it is to after every sentence double space, but no matter if I'm writing a lot or a few sentences, if you do that it looks like your post is really long.

To avoid it completely? Post short posts. http://i39.tinypic.com/29gn6yq.gif

Vivi
04-13-2010, 04:12 AM
I don't care how damn solid-good your theory is Madara = Madara.

Obito is under zillion of Pound of bounders this whole body is smashed.

Zillion?Don't put such numbers in the Air.


Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan

Madara hasnt got an exact age so ho do you know?You can only guess.Also Tobi never showed MS.



Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
False.It was supposed to go off when Sasuke's looks at the Person Itachi thought is Madara.Doesnt prove he is Madara.

Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what

Since it's Minato it means he can't be wrong?



Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic

A 13 Y old Medic.



Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.

And that proves Tobi=Madara how?



All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.

Ever heard of fooling others?



All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job

Page please?Madara was a Konoha Enemy.



When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.

:lol: He only said Masked Man.If he knew its Madara he wouldnt have said Masked Man but his name.



All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.

Yeah because the History of Konoha and it's birth is unknown to everyone.Even Kakashi knew him.



Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now

That proves Obito is Madara not disproving it.



Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point

Page again?



Kisame knows Madara is Madara

Which is impossible cause he called him Mizukage as well.
A Ninja world wide known for his rebellion against Konoha becoming Kage in a Village he's not even member of.
Yep right...




Kabuto knows Madara is Madara

And?Just because it's kabuto as well it means he can't be fooled?



And if there is any Elders left they know Madara is Madara

Already answered this.



Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*

Again doesnt prove anything.



Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.

Tobi is a Liar as Minato has proven.



Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan

Means nothing again.IF Obito was alive he could have gained it.



Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about

Proof only 3 did?It's History of Konoha.



Madara's body is NOT in the coffen, and Obito is NOT Madara. Let it go peopel.


Yellow.
Also what gives you the right to tell People to let him be dead?
It's Fiction.It's a Theory and damn sure not up to you to tell People to "Let it go".

mrsticky005
04-13-2010, 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by zerosameri http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2894023#post2894023)
I don't care how damn solid-good your theory is Madara = Madara.

Obito is under zillion of Pound of bounders this whole body is smashed.

Zillion?Don't put such numbers in the Air.

It's called exaggeration. Sure maybe it wasn't actually a zillion
boulders but even 5 boulders would do the job.


Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan

Madara hasnt got an exact age so ho do you know?You can only guess.Also Tobi never showed MS.

You can somewhat guessimate his age but yeah nbody really know.
True Tobi has never showed MS. At least not that we can say for sure.



Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
False.It was supposed to go off when Sasuke's looks at the Person Itachi thought is Madara.Doesnt prove he is Madara.

This would make sense if it went off when Sasuke just saw Tobi.
But Tobi had to take off his mask before it went off. That means
Itachi would have had to see this person's face before. Since
Obito is around the same age as Kakashi and was an Uchiha
Itachi probably knew of Obito and would know what he looked like.
I suppose you could argue that Itachi wouldn't know everybody
in the clan. But I doubt he would mistake Obito for Madara.
Especially when they are NOT wearing a mask.



Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what

Since it's Minato it means he can't be wrong?

Pretty much, yes.
Minato shouldn't have had to say the blantanly obvious
but he did. Why? Because unless Kishimoto has a character
with a lot of reputation say "this person is dead" people will
be wondering about it for the rest of eternity. It's a way
of bringing closure to those who can't come to terms.
Of course not everyone can be convinced.

If it was Madara who said Obito was dead then there might be some questions because Madara is known to be a liar. If it was Iruka who said it then he might be mistaken too because Iruka doesn't have the same rep.



Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic

A 13 Y old Medic.

Obito was a 13 year old genin who people somehow
think either emerged from the boulders or was rescued by some random plant man and went on to start a evil organization bent on world domination. So I don't see how a 13 year old medic couldn't tell that someone is dead.



Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.

And that proves Tobi=Madara how?

It just proves Obito is not Madara.
Even if Tobi is not Madara, Obito isn't the next most likely choice.




All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.

Ever heard of fooling others?

He fooled others when he didn't die. Until recently, Madara (Tobi)
was trying to keep it on the low down that he was Madara.
It would be far more advantageous if Madara could go about
his business without anyone knowing that he was still alive.
Remember Itachi found him out. He didn't present himself to Itachi.



All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job

Page please?Madara was a Konoha Enemy.

Yeah, Madara wasn't sent by Konoha. Itachi got his help.



When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.

:lol: He only said Masked Man.If he knew its Madara he wouldnt have said Masked Man but his name.

Yep, he did only say masked man. However this masked man could control nine tails. There's not even the slightest clue that Obito
had even the remote possibility of that kind of power.



All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.

Yeah because the History of Konoha and it's birth is unknown to everyone.Even Kakashi knew him.

Madara knew of Itachi's truth. Kakashi didn't.
Nobody knew except Itachi, Danzo, Homaru, Koharu
and Madara.
But let's just pretend that Tobi is Obito.
How is it that Obito, a lowly Genin would be in the know
of such a thing that was kept top secret?




Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now

That proves Obito is Madara not disproving it.

You mean that Obito would be Tobi?
Or is this now going to the magical theory that
Madara randomly picked up Obito's body because
of course there aren't any better Uchiha than himself.




Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point

Page again?

Well if Madara is still alive then they would have been both alive at one point.



Kisame knows Madara is Madara

Which is impossible cause he called him Mizukage as well.
A Ninja world wide known for his rebellion against Konoha becoming Kage in a Village he's not even member of.
Yep right...

There's a really easy way to explain this. Really easy.
Madara was Fourth Mizukage de facto.
Remember Yagura? He was being controlled by an unknown Genjutsu.
Now who do you find more likely to have such a powerful genjutsu?
Madara or Obito? If Obito then where did he get such powers?
He never had any powers when he we know he was alive so he would had
to gain such powers somehow. Madara however we know had the EMS at one point so it shouldn't be surprising if he can will a ham sandwich into existence. Madara was controlling Yagura from behind the scenes.
Kisame called Madara Mizukage because he was the one in power.
There's no proof that Madara was fourth mizukage de facto but it
makes a lot more sense than Obito, a lowly genin being able to manipulate an entire country. The fact that Madara had to take off his mask
is what helps prove he is in fact Madara or at the very least he was
able to trick Kisame back then into thinking he was Madara.




Kabuto knows Madara is Madara

And?Just because it's kabuto as well it means he can't be fooled?

Kabuto could be fooled. But it's more of the fact he's just another person who knows and also another person who hasn't thought he was Obito.






Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*

Again doesnt prove anything.

It's just that another person says Tobi to be Madara.



Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.

Tobi is a Liar as Minato has proven.

Madara stole the MS.



Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan

Means nothing again.IF Obito was alive he could have gained it.

True, he could have but there's no indication that he did.



Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about

Proof only 3 did?It's History of Konoha.


Yes, it is History of Konoha. However how would Obito know of such things like the Anbu being set up as watch-dogs in Uchiha land? Obito was a lowly
genin who wasn't in the know.

Madara's body is NOT in the coffen, and Obito is NOT Madara. Let it go peopel.

SakiUchiha
04-13-2010, 10:05 AM
You're all frustrated I can tell.

mrsticky005
04-13-2010, 10:18 AM
You're all frustrated I can tell.

I'm not FRUSTRATED AT ALL!!!!!!!!!*&^#*@&
`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`# (`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`!:)

Hidden Ninja45
04-13-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm not FRUSTRATED AT ALL!!!!!!!!!*&^#*@&
`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`# (`#(`#(`#(`#(`#(`!:)

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Anyway, I agree that Obito is probably dead, but I just really wish he wasn't because he was a pretty cool character in the Kakashi Chronicles.

mrsticky005
04-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Kishimoto should go with my theory of awesomeness.


Shisui and Obito were brothers.


Then it would be like his death had more of a point.

MinatoUchiha
04-13-2010, 04:31 PM
I don't care how damn solid-good your theory is Madara = Madara.

Obito is under zillion of Pound of bounders this whole body is smashed.


Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan
Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what
Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic
Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.
All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.
All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job
When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.
All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.
Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now
Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point
Kisame knows Madara is Madara
Kabuto knows Madara is Madara
And if there is any Elders left they know Madara is Madara
Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*
Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.
Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan
Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about

Madara's body is NOT in the coffen, and Obito is NOT Madara. Let it go peopel.
THANK YOU!!! finally im not one of the only ones that knows that Obito is DEAD....and you actually stated all the reasons why Madara=Madara...rep up!

*Talim of the moonlight*
04-13-2010, 04:48 PM
IKR! No matter how many times people can make the best theory of the world to say Obito is alive!!!!!!!!! THE FRECKIN DUDE IS DEAD AND GONE!

mrsticky005
04-13-2010, 04:58 PM
IKR! No matter how many times people can make the best theory of the world to say Obito is alive!!!!!!!!! THE FRECKIN DUDE IS DEAD AND GONE!

I don't see where people see any mystery in if he died.
I mean as if the one giant boulder crushing him, and him
coughing up blood, and him saying how his right side is
pretty much gone, and how he was saying he didn't
think he was gonna make it and how he couldn't
move and how Kakashi couldn't lift the boulder and
how MORE rocks fell on BOTH sides of his face when
the cave collapsed on him.

Now, the only remote possibility is that someone (maybe Zetsu)
randomly decided to dig out a bunch of rocks and unearth Obito,
and reassemble him into Tobi.

Though WHY Zetsu or anyone else would do that is beyond me.

zerosameri
04-13-2010, 05:03 PM
THANK YOU!!! finally im not one of the only ones that knows that Obito is DEAD....and you actually stated all the reasons why Madara=Madara...rep up!
There is more reason but I forgot what they were XD

garra12345
04-13-2010, 05:06 PM
To all of you shut the hell up obito is dead.

3littlepigs
04-13-2010, 09:02 PM
I know that. Itachi Twist.;)
:)
Kishimoto should go with my theory of awesomeness.


Shisui and Obito were brothers.


Then it would be like his death had more of a point.
Why would his death have more of a point if they were brothers? :|
To all of you shut the hell up obito is dead.
I think most of us here were agreeing that he was dead...:shock:

mrsticky005
04-14-2010, 04:53 AM
:)

Why would his death have more of a point if they were brothers? :|




I think most of us here were agreeing that he was dead...:shock:

Obito wouldn't seem as random of a character. Nor would Shisui.
There would be more of a connection.

Wooster
04-14-2010, 04:57 AM
Obito is alive!!!!!


in our hearts.

Bioyard
04-14-2010, 05:16 AM
I'm just gonna C&P what I said in another thread here. For some reason people always ignore the posts that make the most sense...

"It HAS to be Madaras body. It wasnt too big a deal to Madara when Kabuto revealed he could summon the dead. Yet the last summon Madara said "How did you do that?!" So that means Kabuto summoned someone Madara thought was impossible to summon. Notice it was "How did you DO that?" It wasn't "How did you KNOW that?""

And the whole Obito thing is just like when everyone thought Pain was the 4th Hokage. The only way it COULD be Obito is if someone else was pulling the strings and Obito was just the distraction cause there is no way he'd know so much about Konohas secrets if he was just the ghost of a dead boy, who btw wouldn't be the height of a grown man....

SakiUchiha
04-14-2010, 08:25 AM
So let me get this straight...you get beaten from debating in Trueborn's thread, and you make this thread out of rage? You're funny.

zerosameri
04-14-2010, 12:47 PM
So let me get this straight...you get beaten from debating in Trueborn's thread, and you make this thread out of rage? You're funny.No I didn't. We have a debat in the thread *Page 3 I think* He didn't beat me nor did I beat him, we are on nutral grounds right now. I neve felt like respsonding to it, beacuse no matter how I put or how much fact's say Madara = Madara, he'll still say "I won't believe that untill everything is proven down to the last little detail." And well It's been proven that Madara = Madara. And I did not make this thread out of rage, I made it because I wanted too. As you can see I made this thread like 2 other times.

funny :|

MinatoUchiha
04-14-2010, 03:08 PM
So let me get this straight...you get beaten from debating in Trueborn's thread, and you make this thread out of rage? You're funny.
i think its a very good thread because Zero actually has good points and he is right

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 02:52 PM
I love the Obito-tobi-madara discussions so much, since they arent like the: Does god exist or not?-Who would win in a fight, Ceasar vs. Hitler; -whats the meaning of life, discussions.They're endless.Not this one.One day we will have a victorious side on this debate, a glorious victory of intelligence and a crushing failure grounded in the inability to think.

Thats why this is so great.Complete defeat to one side.I can allready hear the lame loser excuses. "We didnt know these facts yet..." "everyone can be wrong once" "you were just lucky, it was 50-50" "i dont care"

Oh you will care.And just to get it straight, its not a 50-50, but a 1%-99%.Everyone says hes Madara.And a group of people not only predicts hes fooling us, but they know who he really is.That's not chance anymore.

All of you "Tobi is Madara!!Thats fact idiots" are the most sad people in the world.Those that believe anything in the news, those that feeds on society's trash can, with the inability to think on your own.


With that said, im gonna play a little game.

Welcome to Captain logic's classroom!
Lets all get along and give our best!Yay!;D
Here are two pictures, study them well kids, you gotta find something alike.Something that looks alike!You can do it.

Times up!
Did everyone finish? Im sure you all found the things that looked alike, banzai!

*Excuse me sensei!*

Yes, bakakid?^^

*I found something that looked alike...but...they aren't completely identical.How come?...*

Thats a good question bakakid!

*please stop calling me ba-*

now here are two other pictures!They've got the exact same monster on it made by the same jutsu, with the same name!^^


Did everyone notice!?

*Haaaiii!*

Even you bakakid?^^

*Ehm.....ehm.....they don't really look that much alike....and...ehm...they attack differently*

Thats right bakakid, now what could that mean!?^^

*Ehm...maybe....maybe they look different because they're made by different persons?...*

And?!^^

*And...The whirls on the first pictures...also only looked slightly different because they might haven been made by two different persons, but still being the same technic...*

Thats right bakakid!!!Im so proud of you! *Please don't call me-* Everyone banzai!!

*Banzai!Banzai!Banzai!*

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 02:58 PM
I love the Obito-tobi-madara discussions so much, since they arent like the: Does god exist or not?-Who would win in a fight, Ceasar vs. Hitler; -whats the meaning of life, discussions.They're endless.Not this one.One day we will have a victorious side on this debate, a glorious victory of intelligence and a crushing failure grounded in the inability to think.

Thats why this is so great.Complete defeat to one side.I can allready hear the lame loser excuses. "We didnt know these facts yet..." "everyone can be wrong once" "you were just lucky, it was 50-50" "i dont care"

Oh you will care.And just to get it straight, its not a 50-50, but a 1%-99%.Everyone says hes Madara.And a group of people not only predicts hes fooling us, but they know who he really is.That's not chance anymore.

All of you "Tobi is Madara!!Thats fact idiots" are the most sad people in the world.Those that believe anything in the news, those that feeds on society's trash can, with the inability to think on your own.


With that said, im gonna play a little game.

Welcome to Captain logic's classroom!
Lets all get along and give our best!Yay!;D
Here are two pictures, study them well kids, you gotta find something alike.Something that looks alike!You can do it.


Times up!
Did everyone finish? Im sure you all found the things that looked alike, banzai!

*Excuse me sensei!*

Yes, bakakid?^^

*I found something that looked alike...but...they aren't completely identical.How come?...*

Thats a good question bakakid!

*please stop calling me ba-*

now here are two other pictures!They've got the exact same monster on it made by the same jutsu, with the same name!^^



Did everyone notice!?

*Haaaiii!*

Even you bakakid?^^

*Ehm.....ehm.....they don't really look that much alike....and...ehm...they attack differently*

Thats right bakakid, now what could that mean!?^^

*Ehm...maybe....maybe they look different because they're made by different persons?...*

And?!^^

*And...The whirls on the first pictures...also only looked slightly different because they might haven been made by two different persons, but still being the same technic...*

Thats right bakakid!!!Im so proud of you! *Please don't call me-* Everyone banzai!!

*Banzai!Banzai!Banzai!*
Your more randome than wooster. how side are you one any ways?

Wooster
04-15-2010, 02:59 PM
If you want to see a serious discussion if Obito could be Tobi, not is mind you, go to mrsticky's devil advocate thread. Right now the title is about Zetsu, but the Obito debate is still there.

The problem is that Kishimoto has bound himself in too many ways to make Obito Tobi. He can revive Obito, he can even make Tobi not Madara. However, only a large plot hole will allow Obito to be Tobi.

TheAkatsukiClanPM9999
04-15-2010, 03:00 PM
Is Obito even Tobi? I'm getting confused.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:00 PM
Your more randome than wooster. how side are you one any ways?
Hey, I'm not random. There is always a method to my madness.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 03:02 PM
The problem is that Kishimoto has bound himself in too many ways to make Obito Tobi. He can revive Obito, he can even make Tobi not Madara. However, only a large plot hole will allow Obito to be Tobi. Please, my lord, be at mercy with me then, bestow on me your great knowledge of plothole!Because, i don't see one.Open my eyes and let it be burnt with light of knowledge!!! Oh praise the lord!

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 03:04 PM
Hey, I'm not random. There is always a method to my madness.Isn't that from the new Alice in Wonder land?

Edit: It is! `:shock:`:P

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Please, my lord, be at mercy with me then, bestow on me your great knowledge of plothole!Because, i don't see one.Open my eyes and let it be burnt with light of knowledge!!! Oh praise the lord!
If you quoted the rest of it, you would know where to look. It's not my job to convince you, I don't care. I am just providing you with a service. Take it or leave it.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Isn't that from the new Alice in Wonder land?

Edit: It is! `:shock:`:P
Well, that's news to me as well.

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Well, that's news to me as well.
sarcasms?

Phoenix Wright
04-15-2010, 03:10 PM
Your more randome than wooster. how side are you one any ways?
This.

I think the better question is who is he anyways? With 17 posts, could he be an OBDer? Some random dude? Not a clue.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:13 PM
sarcasms?
Actually, no.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 03:18 PM
If you quoted the rest of it, you would know where to look. It's not my job to convince you, I don't care. I am just providing you with a service. Take it or leave it.

Hahahaha, thats right!Fake that you dont care and run with the tail in between your legs, eventually you will bow down to me, by discussion or the final prove of the manga when the time comes, running just prolongs the inevitable!

The biggest opstacle i ever got in my theory was this:

"Tobi is Madara, Obito is dead, Madara says so himself"

Thats it.Its like the famous "proove" from the christians.

God exists, which is stated/proved in the bible, which is the word of god.
Thats called an endless cycle, evidence being the claim itself.

Understand this well.The claim itself, can never be prove.
Every think Tobi has said or others have said about him are claims by characters.

There are no plotholes.Kishi is the plot.Itachi being good was so insanely out of the question in the plot, yet it happened.Facts change.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Hahahaha, thats right!Fake that you dont care and run with the tail in between your legs, eventually you will bow down to me, by discussion or the final prove of the manga when the time comes, running just prolongs the inevitable!

The biggest opstacle i ever got in my theory was this:

"Tobi is Madara, Obito is dead, Madara says so himself"

Thats it.Its like the famous "proove" from the christians.

God exists, which is stated/proved in the bible, which is the word of god.
Thats called an endless cycle, evidence being the claim itself.

Understand this well.The claim itself, can never be prove.
Every think Tobi has said or others have said about him are claims by characters.

There are no plotholes.Kishi is the plot.Itachi being good was so insanely out of the question in the plot, yet it happened.Facts change.
And yet you still refuse to look where I told you.

Also thank you for bring up Itachi that I will debate. That left plot holes sprinkled throughout the story. Every word the author writes binds him. What you fail to realize is that the author does not make the story the readers do. If the author does not follow his own rules set out from the beginning, his story is called crap, which it rightly is. If Kishimoto can do whatever he wants will this be the next chapter?

Naruto plotting to overthrow the world, Madara drinking tea in Konoha, and Konohamaru flying into space. Yes? No? Maybe so?

Kishimoto CAN do this. But readers would rightly throw that in the garbage.

Your theory is based on the flawed assumption that Kishimoto can do whatever he wants. You Tobi/Obito fanatics want this theory to be true, the rest is rationalization. Almost religious wouldn't you say?

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 03:23 PM
This.

I think the better question is who is he anyways? With 17 posts, could he be an OBDer? Some random dude? Not a clue.

Im the one who refrains from mass posting in threads like "narusake- true love?" " Whos the most sexy boy character" Crap like that.

Even though my post sounded random, look at the pictures.There's truth in it.Theres no way in hell Kishi made Kakashi's and Tobi's MS abilty so freaking alike, while both only show one visible eye each.Theres...no...way.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 03:26 PM
And yet you still refuse to look where I told you.

Okay, which thread is it?..Give me a link or name.Guess i'll have no choice.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Okay, which thread is it?..Give me a link or name.Guess i'll have no choice.
I live to serve or sever,which ever.
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53673

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Many of the things you said could be countered, but I agree with you, it's most likely that it's not Obito, I'm not saying there isn't a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's not.

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 03:56 PM
;2910697']Many of the things you said could be countered, but I agree with you, it's most likely that it's not Obito, I'm not saying there isn't a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's not.
Just wondering like what?
Actually, no.
really?

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 04:26 PM
Just wondering like what?

really?

First off, the ones saying that all those people that "know" Madara is Madara, is automatically countered, because they never say it's Madara, they just allowed him to be called Madara, that's it.

Second, The Amaterasu that goes off when it sees Madara isn't proven as well, it's only meant when they see the guy who calls him self Madara's eyes, but just because he calls himself Madara doesn't mean he is.

Third, if Obito were the guy behind the mask, then the whole, Madara and Obito were alive at the same point is also disproven.

Fourth, Obito would have a considerable amount of time while he's "dead" to learn all the stuff that he supposedly shouldn't know.

That's about all right now.

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 04:35 PM
;2911304']First off, the ones saying that all those people that "know" Madara is Madara, is automatically countered, because they never say it's Madara, they just allowed him to be called Madara, that's it. I can counter that, when Kisame saw Madara's face he said "Miz- Madara" or somethingf close to it. So Kisame reganized that Tobi is Madara.

Second, The Amaterasu that goes off when it sees Madara isn't proven as well, it's only meant when they see the guy who calls him self Madara's eyes, but just because he calls himself Madara doesn't mean he is.
Itachi new that Madara was alive un untill the Uchiha thing. Itachi must of knew/thinks that Madara is alive to make Sasuke MS go off at the sight of MAdara's sharingan. Itachi knows what MAdara's sharingan looks likes, so it would be simple for him to know make Sasuke's MS go off at the sight of Madara's MS

Third, if Obito were the guy behind the mask, then the whole, Madara and Obito were alive at the same point is also disproven.
At some point they were a live at the same time. Seen Madara was the clan leader upuntill the 1st vs Madara. Then add upuntill the Uchiha massacr then just add the Kyuubi attack. Some time in batween though dates Obito was a live.

Fourth, Obito would have a considerable amount of time while he's "dead" to learn all the stuff that he supposedly shouldn't know.
Then what about all the untold, unwritten, unknow top scret only 2 people know about things? Some of the stuff Madara's knows only Madara's know no one else (I.e some of the Uchiha stuff)
That's about all right now.
Hmm ok lets see

TOKIE_TOKIE
04-15-2010, 04:41 PM
several things that means he is dead:

- body crushed
-building he was crushed in went boom right
-they took his eye out which means blood loss

HE IS DEAD

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 04:47 PM
several things that means he is dead:

- body crushed
-building he was crushed in went boom right
-they took his eye out which means blood loss

HE IS DEAD

Wow, you must be right.

Got new theories now aswell.Kakashi and Gaara are zombies.Both dead.Real dead.And boom alive again.Man, they're zombies; now i see clearly, thanks.

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Hmm ok lets see

I can counter that, when Kisame saw Madara's face he said "Miz- Madara" or somethingf close to it. So Kisame reganized that Tobi is Madara.Kisame, anyone else? I meant the majority, not one. The kages/ elder/ everyone else never says that he is Madara, only that it's a possibility.

Itachi new that Madara was alive un untill the Uchiha thing. Itachi must of knew/thinks that Madara is alive to make Sasuke MS go off at the sight of MAdara's sharingan. Itachi knows what MAdara's sharingan looks likes, so it would be simple for him to know make Sasuke's MS go off at the sight of Madara's MS.He just happened to notice that someone was lurking around the clan and he called himself Madara, that doesn't mean he is. He knows what his sharingan looks like, but who's to say it's really Madara's?

At some point they were a live at the same time. Seen Madara was the clan leader upuntill the 1st vs Madara. Then add upuntill the Uchiha massacr then just add the Kyuubi attack. Some time in batween though dates Obito was a live.The battle between the first Hokage and Madara Uchiha was before the Fourth Hokage was born, so if the person who says he's Madara truly is Madara, then it would be true, but nothing really proves that he is except that he says he's Madara.

Then what about all the untold, unwritten, unknow top scret only 2 people know about things? Some of the stuff Madara's knows only Madara's know no one else (I.e some of the Uchiha stuff)
That's about all right now.And how was Madara supposed to know? How was anyone supposed to know? The Sage of the Six Paths was dead long before Madara was born, how did he know? It was most likely passed down from generation to generation and the history of the Sharingan most likely died with the clan. Can you prove that Itachi didn't know about the Sharingan's history? But then again, if it wasn't lost with the clan it was probably lost earlier than that. Here ya go.

Wooster
04-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Wow, you must be right.

Got new theories now aswell.Kakashi and Gaara are zombies.Both dead.Real dead.And boom alive again.Man, they're zombies; now i see clearly, thanks.
Ignoring the sarcasm. He is right. If you don't see someone die, they can be alive. It's a stupid thing to do, but if Kishimoto wants to write a story with logic of a comic book he can do that.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Ignoring the sarcasm. He is right. If you don't see someone die, they can be alive. It's a stupid thing to do, but if Kishimoto wants to write a story with logic of a comic book he can do that.

True.
Funny thing is.Nobody saw Obito die.That's right, we never saw him dead.We saw him yelling that they should run and that stones fell over him, while enemy forces moved in.

Thats it.Thats really it, so much plot start here.

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:03 PM
True.
Funny thing is.Nobody saw Obito die.That's right, we never saw him dead.We saw him yelling that they should run and that stones fell over him, while enemy forces moved in.

Thats it.Thats really it, so much plot start here.
he was half dead...so if he IS Tobi, then he'd be half blind, crippled and not have that much arm strength
but he is NOT Tobi so...
Tobi=Madara
and
Obito=Dead

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 06:08 PM
he was half dead...so if he IS Tobi, then he'd be half blind, crippled and not have that much arm strength
but he is NOT Tobi so...
Tobi=Madara
and
Obito=Dead

Wth, they just keep coming, again and again i have tell the fools that writing "madara=tobi" isn't a prove but an opinion, they've got a god damn hole they come from or what?
Well

Half dead, half alive, who cares, whats your point?
Not....much...arm strength?You're saying that there are wounds in naruto that cant be healed?They can plant one EYE into ANOTHER EYE! No damn human can do that today, even with the best equiptment.But they can, while on the battlefield.Wounds mean nothing.Get over it.

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:13 PM
Half dead, half alive, who cares, whats your point?
Not....much...arm strength?You're saying that there are wounds in naruto that cant be healed?They can plant one EYE into ANOTHER EYE! No damn human can do that today, even with the best equiptment.But they can, while on the battlefield.Wounds mean nothing.Get over it.
ignoring the mean stuff -_-

i dont remember what chapter, but Tobi (aka Madara) stopped Suigestus sword...with his RIGHT arm...the CRUSHED one...he woulda been crippled in that limb! (if he was alive but he's not)

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:15 PM
They can plant one EYE into ANOTHER EYE! No damn human can do that today, even with the best equiptment.But they can, while on the battlefield.Wounds mean nothing.Get over it.
Kakashi got Obitos eye implanted into his eye SOCKET

by the way, people can get eye transplants in this day

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 06:17 PM
Kakashi got Obitos eye implanted into his eye SOCKET

by the way, people can get eye transplants in this day

I'm not on his side or yours, but I felt like adding one thing, you can't with a simple medical kit...

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:20 PM
;2912379']I'm not on his side or yours, but I felt like adding one thing, you can't with a simple medical kit...
not with a simple kit but its Naruto we're talking about, they have GOOD medical jutsu, like for the eye, but not to heal a crippled person

yes, Rock Lee was crippled but that surgery was experimental at that time, so even if Obito lived, he'd be crippled

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 06:23 PM
not with a simple kit but its Naruto we're talking about, they have GOOD medical jutsu, like for the eye, but not to heal a crippled person

yes, Rock Lee was crippled but that surgery was experimental at that time, so even if Obito lived, he'd be crippled

I know, I'm just trying to say that Naruto tends to have some far fetched things happen. They brought Gaara back from the dead when he's been dead for a few hours or less.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 06:27 PM
by the way, people can get eye transplants in this day
yeah, but they're not gonna be able to see with them.

not with a simple kit but its Naruto we're talking about, they have GOOD medical jutsu, like for the eye, but not to heal a crippled person


Aha, man, thats...."like for an eye"....thats some of the hardest things to do ever.Repairing muscles and bones....Naruto did that with chakra alone when pierced by sasuke.We didnt even see his "crushed body" You can't feel with a crushed body, we just assume it was, because obito says so, in his very reliable state.He might even have lied, to let them escape so that they could survive...though i doubt that.

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 06:30 PM
yeah, but they're not gonna be able to see with them.



Aha, man, thats...."like for an eye"....thats some of the hardest things to do ever.Repairing muscles and bones....Naruto did that with chakra alone when pierced by sasuke.We didnt even see his "crushed body" You can't feel with a crushed body, we just assume it was, because obito says so, in his very reliable state.He might even have lied, to let them escape so that they could survive...though i doubt that.

But remember, it wasn't his chakra that healed him, it was the nine tailed fox's chakra that heals him and Obito isn't a jinchuuriki.

Rotate
04-15-2010, 06:30 PM
;2912431']I know, I'm just trying to say that Naruto tends to have some far fetched things happen. They brought Gaara back from the dead when he's been dead for a few hours or less.
In some cultures they don't consider someone dead until it has been more than 3 days.


I am getting sick of people thinking that Obito is really Madrara in disquese. If he is later on in the story then he is. If he isn't he isn't. I'm just sick of all the threads talking about this. Just stop making threads about this and lets see if it will actually happen.

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 06:36 PM
I am getting sick of people thinking that Obito is really Madrara in disquese. If he is later on in the story then he is. If he isn't he isn't. I'm just sick of all the threads talking about this. Just stop making threads about this and lets see if it will actually happen. No never, thats the great about this.You can play sherlock holmes.This isn't random, but has rather much to do with thought.Either you're right or wrong.And essentially you will know the answer.It's not a "we can never know thing" which i hate the most.
I try to prove now, that me being right about it, wasnt just luck, and those being wrong, wasn't just no luck, but ignorance and lack of understanding.
I'd even like to be wrong, since i would learn the most then.

SPAM [bot]
04-15-2010, 06:40 PM
In some cultures they don't consider someone dead until it has been more than 3 days.


I am getting sick of people thinking that Obito is really Madrara in disquese. If he is later on in the story then he is. If he isn't he isn't. I'm just sick of all the threads talking about this. Just stop making threads about this and lets see if it will actually happen.

I didn't know that, interesting...

I don't think Tobi is Madara and I also don't think he's Obito, but there are possibilities for everything, just in case you were directing it to me. I don't think people will stop until they find out, it's fun to try and do the research, have your theories etc. Something about the future greatly interests humanity, I don't know why you're not interested in what'll happen in the future, I certainly am.

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:42 PM
yeah, but they're not gonna be able to see with them.

yes they do

Bratcipheo
04-15-2010, 06:52 PM
The optic nerve (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18892/Nerve-conduction-velocity)Nerve biopsy (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18893/Nerve-biopsy)
Nerve conduction velocity (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18892/Nerve-conduction-velocity), which sends visual (http://www.medhelp.org/medical-information/show/1193/Visual-acuity-test)Visual acuity test (http://www.medhelp.org/medical-information/show/1193/Visual-acuity-test) signals from the eye to the brain, consists of about one million fibers. Because transplanting a whole eye would require that the optic nerve (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18892/Nerve-conduction-velocity)Nerve biopsy (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18893/Nerve-biopsy)
Nerve conduction velocity (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18892/Nerve-conduction-velocity) be cut (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18130/Cuts-and-puncture-wounds)Cuts and puncture wounds (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18130/Cuts-and-puncture-wounds) and then reattached, scientists do not expect that this type of procedure will be possible. Researchers are focusing on how to regenerate damaged optic nerves and how to replace damaged retinal (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/13429/retinal-detachment)Fluorescein angiography (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/18869/Fluorescein-angiography)
Retinal artery occlusion (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/123506/Retinal-artery-occlusion)
Retinal detachment repair (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/14427/Retinal-detachment-repair)
Retinal dye injection (http://www.medhelp.org/medical-information/show/5321/Retinal-dye-injection)
Retinal detachment (http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/13429/retinal-detachment) cells with healthy transplants. However, this work is in its early stages and it may be many years before there are any findings that could be used to restore vision in humans."

No they do not transplant whole eyes.They transplant the "linse", the little thing on your eye.Never the whole eye.

MinatoUchiha
04-15-2010, 06:55 PM
No they do not transplant whole eyes.They transplant the "linse", the little thing on your eye.Never the whole eye.
never mind...im done arguing about Obito Tobi and Madara...boring..

zerosameri
04-15-2010, 07:00 PM
Wth, they just keep coming, again and again i have tell the fools that writing "madara=tobi" isn't a prove but an opinion, they've got a god damn hole they come from or what?
Well

Half dead, half alive, who cares, whats your point?
Not....much...arm strength?You're saying that there are wounds in naruto that cant be healed?They can plant one EYE into ANOTHER EYE! No damn human can do that today, even with the best equiptment.But they can, while on the battlefield.Wounds mean nothing.Get over it.I am not a foll, and your logic is horrid. All you have staded in pointless nothing but fail logic.

You can do eye transpant just like you can do a heart transpant (http://www.helium.com/items/1614259-eye-transplant-organ-donations)

Wooster
04-15-2010, 07:41 PM
really?
Yes, really. I mean no I didn't. Now I am just confused.
No they do not transplant whole eyes.They transplant the "linse", the little thing on your eye.Never the whole eye.
Yes, but in Naruto they don't even have cars, and somehow healed a hole through Neji's body with his hair. Of course, maybe you are just pointing out someone else trying to use actually logic here when Kishimoto is quite the illogical fellow.

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 08:39 AM
never mind...im done arguing about Obito Tobi and Madara...boring..
Thats loser talk.You're not even man enough to admit your wrongs.

I am not a foll, and your logic is horrid. All you have staded in pointless nothing but fail logic.

You can do eye transpant just like you can do a heart transpant (http://www.helium.com/items/1614259-eye-transplant-organ-donations)

Indeed, you may not be a foll, but damn close to be a fool.
You have stated nothing other than repeat "fail logic" over and over again, without ever to give one single point.That is the truth.

You may wanna take reading classes.Your link says:
However, our current technology is limited in the ability to transplant an entire eye. To transplant an entire eye, the eye surgeon would have to sever the optic nerve of the recipient's eye and then re-attach it using microsurgery, to the new transplanted nerve of the donor eye. However, the optic nerve is a CNS nerve and is different than peripheral nerves. At this time there is no effective way to stimulate a CNS nerve.
An ophthalmologist must have examined and diagnostically determined and indicated to the patient, their need for a corneal transplantation.

They transplant the cornea, in another word, the linse.
A picture: http://www.kansaseyebank.org/AboutUs/News/13561.jpg

Yes, but in Naruto they don't even have cars, and somehow healed a hole through Neji's body with his hair. Of course, maybe you are just pointing out someone else trying to use actually logic here when Kishimoto is quite the illogical fellow.

Thats my point.People should stop suggesting, that obito could'nt possibly be alive, because the damage were to great, since damage doesn't really exist in this world to begin with.Any wound could get repaired.

mrsticky005
04-16-2010, 09:35 AM
Yes, really. I mean no I didn't. Now I am just confused.

Yes, but in Naruto they don't even have cars, and somehow healed a hole through Neji's body with his hair. Of course, maybe you are just pointing out someone else trying to use actually logic here when Kishimoto is quite the illogical fellow.

With that line of reasoning Gato is Tobi. Surely they fix something
as minor as a head separated from a neck.

And storywise Gato has FAR more reason to be Tobi than `:Pbit`:P.

I mean really WHY would `:Pbit`:P of all people be the secret leader of
the worst criminal organization in the Naruto universe.
You'd have to make some absurd reason for that.

While with Gato the reason is clear. He wants MONEY. With Akatsuki
he can get more money.

Gato=Tobi TRUMPS `:Pbit`:P=Tobi

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
With that line of reasoning Gato is Tobi. Surely they fix something
as minor as a head separated from a neck.

And storywise Gato has FAR more reason to be Tobi than `:Pbit`:P.

I mean really WHY would `:Pbit`:P of all people be the secret leader of
the worst criminal organization in the Naruto universe.
You'd have to make some absurd reason for that.

While with Gato the reason is clear. He wants MONEY. With Akatsuki
he can get more money.

Gato=Tobi TRUMPS `:Pbit`:P=Tobi

So with all the other supposely "facts" to why obito can't be tobi out of the way, its down to this.That you can't understand how obito would ever do that.Let me be clear:

In your argument, the only reason why Obito can't be Tobi, is because of your lack of imagination.

Think about the sasuke's uber lame reason why he wants to destroy konoha:
He doesn't want them to know happiness because he feels so bad?That their happiness is based on Itachi's sacrifice; but to blame it on innocent people, is so incredible stupid and not believeable in any way.But yet, we've accepted it.

zerosameri
04-16-2010, 10:58 AM
Indeed, you may not be a foll, but damn close to be a fool.
You have stated nothing other than repeat "fail logic" over and over again, without ever to give one single point.That is the truth.

You may wanna take reading classes.Your link says:

I can retate that if I want too.

I know what my link said. and I just didn't want to uinlink it so I can put the hear thing :|

mrsticky005
04-16-2010, 11:53 AM
So with all the other supposely "facts" to why obito can't be tobi out of the way, its down to this.That you can't understand how obito would ever do that.Let me be clear:

In your argument, the only reason why Obito can't be Tobi, is because of your lack of imagination.

Think about the sasuke's uber lame reason why he wants to destroy konoha: He doesn't want them to know happiness because he feels so bad?That their happiness is based on Itachi's sacrifice; but to blame it on innocent people, is so incredible stupid and not believeable in any way.But yet, we've accepted it.

Sasuke's "uber lame reason" to destroy Konoha isn't that lame at all.

Konoha ordered his clan to be wiped out and made Itachi shoulder the
blame.

It's amazing Sasuke isn't MORE insane than he actually is right now.

Sasuke wanting revenge is NOT lame. What's lame is how Kishimoto
is keeping Sasuke on an insanity leash. It's like we'll get a glimpse
of Sadistic Sauce and it's awesome but then we return to the whiny
Sasuke. I would be happy if Sasuke started killing random Konoha-nin
left and right then he would actually seem like a villain. But nooooo!!!
Sasuke isn't allowed to mercilessly hack away. There has to be excuses...

1.Sasuke vs Eight Tails. Sasuke lost. Pathetic.
2. Sasuke kills a messenger gecko and Jay. However if Sasuke didn't kill
them then he would have been captured already.
3. Sasuke vs Samurai. They were trying to capture him.
4. Sasuke vs Raikage. pointless fight in which Sasuke nearly kills himself over nothing.
5. Sasuke vs Mizukage/Tsuchikage Another pointless fight. Sasuke is in over his head.
6. Sasuke vs Danzo. Finally this one had a point. And we see Sadistic
Sauce leaking out. But Danzo was morally grey so it's not like you
can feel sorry for him. Sasuke still isn't a villain yet.


7. Sasuke vs Karin. Sasuke tells her not to move and THEN stabs her.
That makes no sense and therefore is great. However since she lives
it tones down the Sasuke villanary

8. Sasuke vs Sakura. This is the pinnacle of the Sadistic Sauce.
Sure he didn't actually kill Sakura (thanks to her being saved TWICE!?)
But his sheer lack of hesitation for killing his former team mate. Awesome.

9. Sasuke vs Kakashi. Starts to go a bit downhill as though Sasuke
has his laughing manically moment he then falters and starts whining.

10. Sasuke vs Naruto. Stupid reminder of the Valley of the End Fight.
Sasuke no longer seems insane. Just an idiot.



But `:Pbit`:P...making `:Pbit`:P evil is like making Dennis the Menace evil.

"Gee Willigers, Mr. Wilson what's that shiny metallic
object protruding from your head?"

"What are you yambling about, whipper snapper?"

STAB!

"mWHAHHAHAHHA I'VE KILLED MR. WILSON! HAHHAHAHAHHAHAH"

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 12:41 PM
Like i said, i can see the reason for killing the elders who ordered it.But i cant see the reason in killing the children of people in konoha, that also didnt have a clue about it.They are totally innocent.But you gave it away, my trick worked.

You said once:I mean really WHY would `:Pbit`:P of all people be the secret leader of
the worst criminal organization in the Naruto universe.
You'd have to make some absurd reason for that.Well thats true.And before sasuke left the village, well, he hadn't a reason to murder all.There has to come something extra....something like:It's amazing Sasuke isn't MORE insane than he actually is right now.Thats right, he's getting insane.You don't know what might have happened to Obito, but he very well might not be that sane anymore.An example:Kabuto.He doesn't look so sane anymore either, but was it before.Something changed him, get what im going at?
This shouldnt be about, CAN kishi make obito tobi?No, because he can.Its about, WOULD kishi make Obito Tobi.If yes, why?If no, why?

He damn can if he wants, its more of a question if you think he would or not, and those reasons.I believe he'll make Obito Tobi, because then there'll be more emotional drama between characters, like kakashi.With the first hokage dead, there isnt much emotional drama with madara, whom we actually dont give so much about.

P.S im not a sasuke hater, i like him as a character, he's needed.I guess i could describe why, quite simple, you just need to compare him with someone else.Like with Spidermans friend, The Green goblins son, in spiderman 3.How he acts, his dead father dead, revenge, once good, but at last he protects spiderman and dies.I think it could very much end like that....

Skrall
04-16-2010, 02:26 PM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.

Kabuto could summon Obito, but why would he do it? Why would Kabuto summon Obito out of no where? Besides I bet Kabuto doesnt even know who Obito is.

Btw, I agree with zerosameri. Theres no way that Obito is Madara, not only the difference in age but we all saw Obito being crushed by a huge rock and dying. Madara and Obito may have some similar coincidences but thats just the autor tricking us again to making us believe that Madara and Obito are the same person.

Wooster
04-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Edit What the?!? Oh screw it. I am leaving it as is.

With that line of reasoning Gato is Tobi. Surely they fix something
as minor as a head separated from a neck.

And storywise Gato has FAR more reason to be Tobi than `:Pbit`:P.

I mean really WHY would `:Pbit`:P of all people be the secret leader of
the worst criminal organization in the Naruto universe.
You'd have to make some absurd reason for that.

While with Gato the reason is clear. He wants MONEY. With Akatsuki
he can get more money.

Gato=Tobi TRUMPS `:Pbit`:P=Tobi
I like the bit part in the middle, heh.
But there is one reason for Obito not to come back:

But `:Pbit`:P...making `:Pbit`:P evil is like making Dennis the Menace evil.

"Gee Willigers, Mr. Wilson what's that shiny metallic
object protruding from your head?"

"What are you yambling about, whipper snapper?"

STAB!

"mWHAHHAHAHHA I'VE KILLED MR. WILSON! HAHHAHAHAHHAHAH"[/QUOTE]

Yep, Obito is annoying. Stay dead Obito.


You said once:Well thats true.And before sasuke left the village, well, he hadn't a reason to murder all.
Yes he did, remember when we met the Sauce. What's the first thing he told Team 7? That he wanted to kill a certain someone. Sasuke has always be a little cracked. He has just slowly become more and more insane. The problem with the Obito is that he is gone. His name was only mentioned once by Kakashi.

Kishimoto hasn't done anything to develop him.

Sure I think Itachi Twist is crap, but clearly Kishimoto spend about 100 chapters developing a character that would defy expectations. There are plenty of hints. They just didn't happen to start from the beginning.

The problem Kishimoto right seems to be streamlining the story( see Danzo's death). I don't think he has any interest right now in added another wrinkle. What I'm saying is we are past the half way point of the story. The story will actually become simpler and more straightforward now.\

Sure there will still be twists(see Akatsuki Zombie Team), but big reveals that require elaborate explanations are not likely. So could Obito return? Sure, but his more likely reappearance will be as a Kabuto zombie to screw with Kakashi's mind. After Kabuto used to be spy on Konoha. He probably knows Kakashi very well. Not to mention , Kishimoto likes to repeat himself. So this would parallel the Orochimaru vs. Sarutobi fight. Essentially Obito taken the place of the First and Second.

Of course, Obito is weak, but I am sure Kabuto and Madara can strengthen him up a bit. You know at least give him a sharingan eye or something.

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 03:41 PM
Kabuto could summon Obito, but why would he do it? Why would Kabuto summon Obito out of no where? Besides I bet Kabuto doesnt even know who Obito is.
True, its no way in hell obito, would make no sense at all.

Theres no way that Obito is Madara, not only the difference in age but we all saw Obito being crushed by a huge rock and dying.

Do people just dont read what we write here?Are are that ;););););););) blind or ignorant to understand.You did NOT see Obito die.Show me please where you saw that he died.Rocks fell down in his direction, then we only saw the rocks, he was under there.Then the enemies came and we never found his body.
I just say Haiti building colapse here, they found people stuck in between rumble, that had tons of stone over them while it should have crushed them.They find survivors after each earthquake.

Though humanity has never put another human being into the body of another, transformed themselfs into snakes, giving them immortallity or brought people back from the dead.Though naruto universe has.
You could at least make them survive a little earthquake.

I just read the last 2 chapters of kakashi gaiden again....hmm...
You can't tell, if hes dead or alive.Theres one interisting thing though.
That is chapter Naruto/244/15/ and Naruto/244/16
It's several minutes after Obito should have died and in the darkness are the words:Where am i? ....... have i died?...

Either he was still alive under the rumble and would be found by the enemies later or it was just a methaphor for him living on in kakashi's as his eye, together.
It's both possible.Well, im at a point now, where i can't say for sure if tobi is obito or not.Actually, i think....i would like him to be dead actually, is much more beautful that way.But if i close my concious to what i like only, i'd be a fool.

The Problem for me, lies mainly in the fact that Tobi shows us one sharingan only, the right.Kakashi, the left only.Both of their MS powers are too alike.As the manga creater, i wouldn't have made two sharingan abilities so alike, and then with the other eye missing.It's too suspicious.Madara would have stolen Obito's body/Eye at least, has to.

mrsticky005
04-16-2010, 03:47 PM
Like i said, i can see the reason for killing the elders who ordered it.But i cant see the reason in killing the children of people in konoha, that also didnt have a clue about it.They are totally innocent.But you gave it away, my trick worked.

You said once:Well thats true.And before sasuke left the village, well, he hadn't a reason to murder all.There has to come something extra....something like:Thats right, he's getting insane.You don't know what might have happened to Obito, but he very well might not be that sane anymore.An example:Kabuto.He doesn't look so sane anymore either, but was it before.Something changed him, get what im going at?
This shouldnt be about, CAN kishi make obito tobi?No, because he can.Its about, WOULD kishi make Obito Tobi.If yes, why?If no, why?

He damn can if he wants, its more of a question if you think he would or not, and those reasons.I believe he'll make Obito Tobi, because then there'll be more emotional drama between characters, like kakashi.With the first hokage dead, there isnt much emotional drama with madara, whom we actually dont give so much about.

P.S im not a sasuke hater, i like him as a character, he's needed.I guess i could describe why, quite simple, you just need to compare him with someone else.Like with Spidermans friend, The Green goblins son, in spiderman 3.How he acts, his dead father dead, revenge, once good, but at last he protects spiderman and dies.I think it could very much end like that....

The way I see it. If Obito was Tobi than Obito wouldn't be Obito.
It's such a contrast in personality that the Obito we knew couldn't
exist (metaphysically speaking...I think.)

I mean before we have

Obito. The Uchiha version of Naruto in Part 1
(Note the goggles. NOTE the goggles. For they do nothing.)

and then you get Tobi, the masked madman.

Obito: I'm going to become the best Uchiha. Believe it.
Tobi: I'm going to own all of your pathetic souls. Believe it.


You really have to force it for Obito to be evil. And also consider would you
actually WANT Obito to be evil? He died saving a friend. Why ruin that
moment of honor?

It's about as bad as making Naruto the Akatsuki leader.

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 04:06 PM
You really have to force it for Obito to be evil. And also consider would you
actually WANT Obito to be evil? He died saving a friend. Why ruin that
moment of honor?
I don't want Obito to be evil, look what i wrote:
i think....i would like him to be dead actually, is much more beautful that way.But if i close my concious to what i like only, i'd be a fool.

There aren't any reasons...yet.
There are just simalirities, which kishi shouldn't have implented at all, if he didnt intend it.He knew the simalirities aswell, he would have changed it, so he wouldn't cause confusion.And no....kishi does NOT: Madara and Obito may have some similar coincidences but thats just the autor tricking us again to making us believe that Madara and Obito are the same person.
That's the worst pile of sh**. Thats like a christian who believes the earth is 10.000 years old, saying:"God put Dinosauer bones here to test our faith."
Yes, these people exist.

garra12345
04-16-2010, 04:08 PM
HE is dead and for those who think he is not well go to hell.

mrsticky005
04-16-2010, 04:46 PM
I don't want Obito to be evil, look what i wrote:


There aren't any reasons...yet.
There are just simalirities, which kishi shouldn't have implented at all, if he didnt intend it.He knew the simalirities aswell, he would have changed it, so he wouldn't cause confusion.And no....kishi does NOT:
That's the worst pile of sh**. Thats like a christian who believes the earth is 10.000 years old, saying:"God put Dinosauer bones here to test our faith."
Yes, these people exist.


Actually when you think about it, that does make sense if you assume
that there is a God in the first place and that, that God is the Christian
God. But if you want to bring up religion (in whatever matter) take it to the debate forum. Anywho, Kishimoto is in effect god of the Naruto manga.
And Kishimoto WILL test the readers faith. It's common literary device.
Kishimoto tested our faith before with Itachi going insane. I had predicted
that Itachi would turn out to be good (as did many others) but I was
sidelined by Itachi's Rape Face but then lo and behold I was right after
all. Itachi really was a good guy. It's not uncommon for authors to
purposely egg their readers on. It's not like Kishimoto doesn't know
about the Tobito theories (unless he's been living under a rock.)
Kishimoto knows whether or not it's true and will make us ponder
until he's ready to reveal the truth if he chooses to do so.

Bratcipheo
04-16-2010, 05:10 PM
Mate...Kishi doesn't live in the forums like we do...The Obito -Tobi theories came AFTER he allready decided what to do.
I mean, he had the super vilain in mind, made him call himself madara.
We all know how madara looks.But he changed him:
He gave him a mask without reason, only one right eye like obito, he gave him short hair like obito(note, all this before any obito theory ever existed), he gave him a personality like obito(to fool his own members?...riiiight), the mask represents his ability, therefore his ability was also known to kishi before the first obito-tobi theory ever emerged, kakashi's MS ability was also show before tobi came, therefore, Kakashi and Tobi had both MS abilities very very much alike, before the first Obito-Tobi theory ever.

He won't test our faith like this, he would never make the main vilain so much alike another dead character that "shouldn't" be involved anymore, because he would want to confuse us.

He wouldn't have gave him a goddamn mask, making him say who he is, and then NOT take of the mask to prove it.

I mean, thats what kindergaarten kids do:"Aren't you thomas? -No, im your dad -But you look just alike thomas -Im testing your faith, im your dad. -but he's much big* -TESTING YOUR FAITH! -Why don't you take of your mask as prove? -nah

Probaly the biggest thing against Tobi NOT Madara, is that he said he was Madara and not taking of the mask.It would never have mattered the other way around.

mrsticky005
04-16-2010, 05:52 PM
Bratcipheo Mate...Kishi doesn't live in the forums like we do...The Obito -Tobi theories came AFTER he allready decided what to do.

Kishimoto doesn't need to live on the forums. Other people do that for him.
It would actually be more of Jump that would be watching the forums.
They do it because that's where the market is. In essence that's sorta
what Viz is doing here. They created this forum to observe the market.
It helps in developing business strategy. Though Kishimoto isn't going
to change his story he might hear from the people Jump has watching
the forums (and reading fan-mail) that readers (usually from Japan)
think this or that and Kishimoto might think "Is that so? Let's see..."


I mean, he had the super vilain in mind, made him call himself madara.
We all know how madara looks.But he changed him:
He gave him a mask without reason, only one right eye like obito, he gave him short hair like obito(note, all this before any obito theory ever existed),

Tobi looks like Madara to me. Just with short hair and looking older.
Considering he's been on the lam for several years that makes sense.


he gave him a personality like obito(to fool his own members?...riiiight),

Seems reasonable enough to me. The Tobi persona makes it seem as if
he wears the mask because he's stupid. Not because he's hiding something. It's rather brilliant actually.


the mask represents his ability, therefore his ability was also known to kishi before the first obito-tobi theory ever emerged, kakashi's MS ability was also show before tobi came, therefore, Kakashi and Tobi had both MS abilities very very much alike, before the first Obito-Tobi theory ever.

Perhaps. Kishimoto obviously knew the truth of Tobito before any
reader did/will. But that doesn't mean he can't try to trick us
into thinking the wrong conclusion.


He won't test our faith like this, he would never make the main vilain so much alike another dead character that "shouldn't" be involved anymore, because he would want to confuse us.

But Obito is NOT so much alike as Tobi because Tobi is NOT a good boy.
There's no indiciation that Tobi has a Zetsu-complex so his Tobi-is-a-good-boy persona was a lie. The real Tobi, whether or not he is
in fact Madara, is the Madara persona. Even if Tobi was Obito the
Madara persona would STILL be his actual persona.

He wouldn't have gave him a goddamn mask, making him say who he is, and then NOT take of the mask to prove it.

Tobi will eventually remove the mask. But it's likely at the finale or close
to it.

I mean, thats what kindergaarten kids do:"Aren't you thomas? -No, im your dad -But you look just alike thomas -Im testing your faith, im your dad. -but he's much big* -TESTING YOUR FAITH! -Why don't you take of your mask as prove? -nah

Did you ever consider perhaps there's another reason why he doesn't
take off his mask? For instance, he might not want people knowing that
he's Madara until the time is right and secondly if his eye is damaged
or missing which is highly likely that might be his weakness.

Probaly the biggest thing against Tobi NOT Madara, is that he said he was Madara and not taking of the mask.It would never have mattered the other way around.

Not really. He HAS taken off his mask but it's just the readers haven't
seen his face. You can say "well then he's not Madara" but it could also
be he's hiding something. Like maybe a missing or damaged eye

MinatoUchiha
04-17-2010, 07:39 AM
Thats loser talk.You're not even man enough to admit your wrongs.

and yet, your the one that complained about all the comebacks keep coming and coming...

Bratcipheo
04-17-2010, 11:56 AM
and yet, your the one that complained about all the comebacks keep coming and coming...
comebacks?...



@Mrsticky005
I really really advise you to use the quote option, i managed to read through your post and see which were mine words, and which not, but others might not.
Now:
Did you ever consider perhaps there's another reason why he doesn't
take off his mask? For instance, he might not want people knowing that
he's Madara until the time is right and secondly if his eye is damaged
or missing which is highly likely that might be his weakness.You can say "well then he's not Madara" but it could also
be he's hiding something. Like maybe a missing or damaged eye
Hehe, you're saying he doesn't take his mask of yet, because people musn't know he's madara?
That i can say with confidence, is diffenetely wrong.
*Hes says he's Madara, people believe him, and you say he doesn't take the mask off because they musn't know he's madara?*Forget that argument.next:

His left eye weakened you say?his weakness?

-never-

Think about danzou, if at all, it's extremely strong eye, which he hides because it's too strong, uses chakra constantly like Kakashi's eye.But thats not very likely, since he's a uchiha.The main villian is no way in hell limited to that eye ability.


Probaly the biggest thing against Tobi NOT Madara, is that he said he was Madara and not taking of the mask.It would never have mattered the other way around. Not really. He HAS taken off his mask but it's just the readers haven't seen his face. You might forget something..."just the readers" we are the point of the manga.If we haven't seen something yet, then that's the same thing as non-existence.I'll make myself damn clear.

Madara being alive is nothing more than a myth.

Every character ever had a surprise to him.Espicially Akatsuki, let me remind you:

-Sasori was really a little kid inside a bigger body.HE FAKED IT
That kid was really a doll controlled by his heart. HE FAKED IT

-Itachi was really good and not evil like everyone thought. HE FAKED IT:

-Pein (As being announced as official Leader several times) with his spikey hair only shown in shadows, then it wasn't the real body.He were somewhere else, and looked different.HE FAKED IT.
Then it was shown that he wasn't the real leader. HE FAKED IT

-Now a masked man with the name Tobi says he's MADARA and keeps the mask on at all times.
*Can you guess what happens when he takes of the mask?*

Tobi will take off his mask, when his big fight arrives.And then, he won'tbe what we expected, that is for sure.

Wooster
04-17-2010, 12:02 PM
Tobi will take off his mask, when his big fight arrives.And then, he won'tbe what we expected, that is for sure.
This at least is true. Whether it will be any good or not is another matter.

MinatoUchiha
04-17-2010, 02:02 PM
comebacks?...

Wth, they just keep coming, again and again i have tell the fools that writing "madara=tobi" isn't a prove but an opinion, they've got a god damn hole they come from or what?
this is what you said about the comebacks...you complained that they just kept coming but duh thats whats supposed to happen! its a debate on a theory!

NAGATO_PAIN
04-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Just let obito r.i.p already i bet he's pissed saying "wt*? Who is this tobi guy they keep comparing me to if i died in the manga..what did you guys not read it??.......fail!!"..i bet hes saying that...hes dead alright end of the story!!!!

Bratcipheo
04-17-2010, 02:53 PM
this is what you said about the comebacks...you complained that they just kept coming but duh thats whats supposed to happen! its a debate on a theory!
Hahahha...yes indeed! Exactly what i was talking about.
Now listen closely:

"The FOOLS keep coming back"

It's not that you can't give your opinion, if it has logical thought behind it, you may also critizise something, if you bring up something to substitute it.
Wooster had some good Obito =not= Tobi arguments for example.
But simply saying "Tobi = Madara" is fools talk.
That were the fools i was talking about.
But now, im not sure what your initial message to me meant then:
Quote:
never mind...im done arguing about Obito Tobi and Madara...boring.. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratcipheo http://naruto.viz.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2914918#post2914918)
Thats loser talk.You're not even man enough to admit your wrongs.

and yet, your the one that complained about all the comebacks keep coming and coming...
You came with an argument that obito couldnt be tobi, and i proved that your argument wasn't valid.Simple.
Instead of admitting that, or coming with a new more valid argument, or accept that obito could be tobi (you said its impossible) you just wanted to leave.Which means, you just didn't accept my explanation and shut your eye's for the truth.

Chain of Hatred
04-17-2010, 03:17 PM
It seems that the vast majority of people agree that Obito is dead and is not Madara. Yet now it seems people are just arguing because it cannot be 100% proven. You should all stop wasting your time here. It's pointless.

Bratcipheo
04-17-2010, 03:57 PM
It seems that the vast majority of people agree that Obito is dead and is not Madara. Yet now it seems people are just arguing because it cannot be 100% proven. You should all stop wasting your time here. It's pointless.
Once upon a time the vast majorty of scientist said the world was flat, just one fool said it was round.

Yo_Slayer
04-17-2010, 04:02 PM
He wouldn't have gave him a goddamn mask, making him say who he is, and then NOT take of the mask to prove it.

Probaly the biggest thing against Tobi NOT Madara, is that he said he was Madara and not taking of the mask.It would never have mattered the other way around.

Actually he was going to take off his mask to introduce himself to Sasuke when they 1st met, but then Sasuke went all black flames and ended that.

=)

Bratcipheo
04-17-2010, 04:08 PM
Actually he was going to take off his mask to introduce himself to Sasuke when they 1st met, but then Sasuke went all black flames and ended that.

=)

You got deluded.

It's not like sasuke's eye's really stopped it.

It was stopped by kishi, the author choose that, which means that he intended still not to show his mask.

Also, sasuke wouldn't be able to tell Obito and Madara apart, he never met any of them.

Yo_Slayer
04-17-2010, 04:16 PM
You got deluded.

It's not like sasuke's eye's really stopped it.

It was stopped by kishi, the author choose that, which means that he intended still not to show his mask.

Also, sasuke wouldn't be able to tell Obito and Madara apart, he never met any of them.

Even so...
Im just pointing out that he has try to introduce himself before.
But now im confuse on why he attempted to show himself to sasuke but no one else...
I guess kishi was trying to show off Itachis genius.

Chain of Hatred
04-17-2010, 04:24 PM
Once upon a time the vast majorty of scientist said the world was flat, just one fool said it was round.

Those weren't scientists. They were religious and political leaders that wanted to control the people. But enough of that, do any Data Books list Obito's info, like whether or not he is alive.

Bratcipheo
04-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Those weren't scientists. They were religious and political leaders that wanted to control the people. But enough of that, do any Data Books list Obito's info, like whether or not he is alive.
My point still stands strong though.Just because a vast majorty has the same opinion, doesn't make it more "true".The truth doesn't get more or less true, because of a certain number of supporters or opposers.

Chain of Hatred
04-17-2010, 05:26 PM
Point taken. I just didn't like you calling them scientists. I'd still like to know about those data books though.

mrsticky005
04-17-2010, 05:37 PM
comebacks?...



@Mrsticky005
I really really advise you to use the quote option, i managed to read through your post and see which were mine words, and which not, but others might not.

Ok.

Now:
Hehe, you're saying he doesn't take his mask of yet, because people musn't know he's madara?
That i can say with confidence, is diffenetely wrong.

No it's right. Madara only let a select few in Akatsuki know he was
actually Madara. He had to in order to be able to run the organization.

Sasori, Deidara, Hidan and Kakuzu were never in the know.

Pain, Zetsu, Konan knew.

Itachi probably knew.

Kisame found out after Itachi died.

Remember Pain is the Figurehead Leader of Akatsuki.
Tobi is the leader de facto.

*Hes says he's Madara, people believe him, and you say he doesn't take the mask off because they musn't know he's madara?*Forget that argument.next:

He obviously has another reason for the mask. But yes he did use the mask
to hide his true identity of being Madara from part of Akatsuki. He didn't
want people knowing until he got his ace in the hole---Sasuke.
However in order to secretly run Akatsuki he had to let Pain know
(and by consequence Konan). He let Zetsu know too because
Zetsu is like his right hand man...or plant.


His left eye weakened you say?his weakness?

-never-

No not never. It's highly probable. Tobi speaks of being incomplete,
of waiting to be restored, he talks about being injured in the fight
against the First Hokage. He wears a mask with one eye hole.
He most likely has one eye or one weakened eye.


Think about danzou, if at all, it's extremely strong eye, which he hides because it's too strong, uses chakra constantly like Kakashi's eye.But thats not very likely, since he's a uchiha.The main villian is no way in hell limited to that eye ability.

Why do you think Madara is using Sasuke? It's because he no longer has
his powers (except teleporting). He's using Sasuke until he can restore
his powers.


You might forget something..."just the readers" we are the point of the manga.If we haven't seen something yet, then that's the same thing as non-existence.I'll make myself damn clear.

That's only true if the manga is finished. There are still things to see.

Madara being alive is nothing more than a myth.

I disagree. We've already seen that Izanagi could easily fool someone.
Madara may or may not have used Izanagi in the fight against Hashirama
but the concept of Izanagi allows Madara tricking Hashirama to be
much more probable and therefore him being alive more likely.

Every character ever had a surprise to him.Espicially Akatsuki, let me remind you:

Yeah, and so did Tobi. He's actually Madara. So why not take off the
mask? Because it's clearly a clue in beating him. Madara has this vast
plan but has a flaw in it. The flaw is what Itachi could never figure out
about Madara. Madara has a weakness. It's most likely related to his eye.

-Sasori was really a little kid inside a bigger body.HE FAKED IT
That kid was really a doll controlled by his heart. HE FAKED IT


-Itachi was really good and not evil like everyone thought. HE FAKED IT:

-Pein (As being announced as official Leader several times) with his spikey hair only shown in shadows, then it wasn't the real body.He were somewhere else, and looked different.HE FAKED IT.
Then it was shown that he wasn't the real leader. HE FAKED IT

-Now a masked man with the name Tobi says he's MADARA and keeps the mask on at all times.
*Can you guess what happens when he takes of the mask?*

Tobi will take off his mask, when his big fight arrives.And then, he won'tbe what we expected, that is for sure.

Yes, he WON'T be `:Pbit`:P.

The big reveal will be seeing what the other half of Madara's face looks like. Which will be that Madara has a damaged or missing eye.





Tobi is Madara.

MinatoUchiha
04-17-2010, 05:43 PM
You came with an argument that obito couldnt be tobi, and i proved that your argument wasn't valid.Simple.
Instead of admitting that, or coming with a new more valid argument, or accept that obito could be tobi (you said its impossible) you just wanted to leave.Which means, you just didn't accept my explanation and shut your eye's for the truth.
i didnt leave because of admitting defeat or anything...
i was tired and i wanted to go to sleep so i said i was done...
so in a way, yes i shut my eyes :D

iMario999
12-21-2010, 08:25 PM
I'M new in the forum... Everyone was saying that Madara (Tobi) is Obito??

zerosameri
12-21-2010, 08:47 PM
I'M new in the forum... Everyone was saying that Madara (Tobi) is Obito??Your new, so next remember not to spam. OK?

---
Don't believe anyone that says Tobi is Obito.

Jonesy
12-22-2010, 12:45 AM
Today, someone told me that Tobi = Izuna. o.O

ShikaLady
12-22-2010, 01:09 AM
Yea he could. But what would be want with a no good weak kid that just got his 2 Toma sharingan *what power Kabuto wants Obito is nothing*

Kabuto could summon Obito. But Obito is not Madara.

-

I know, but people don't get that. :| and yet no matter how you put it to them they still say Obito is Madara OMG :|

I am also in doubt about Obito being Madara, and I agree that no one can be Madara. They've shown part of Madara's face, so it's obvious, as well as the information on how over the years Madara has cut his hair and changed his look, etc. Not to state too much of the obvious, but it will all end as Madara being himself, and hopefully we get to see all of his face at one point. As for the coffin and what he saw in it, I am still in speculation.

ShikaLady
12-22-2010, 01:10 AM
PS: Any guesses on what Madara may have seen in the coffin that Orochimaru/Kabuto made rise from the dead with those other Akatsuki members? I only have a few guesses on what, but I was wondering if anyone had similar guesses...

zerosameri
12-22-2010, 09:37 AM
Today, someone told me that Tobi = Izuna. o.OYou should see the Tobi = Yamato thread... There dead serous too.

JazzJunkie4
12-22-2010, 10:03 AM
Thank you, maybe this thread has put the obito theory one step closer to complete obliteration. Oh and just to clarify, sasuke's MS was activated when he saw Madara's eye not his face. He didn't take his entire mask off.

zerosameri
12-22-2010, 10:07 AM
Thank you, maybe this thread has put the obito theory one step closer to complete obliteration. Oh and just to clarify, sasuke's MS was activated when he saw Madara's eye not his face. He didn't take his entire mask off.I have a ton of threads like this :lol: And I know. Did I put face instead of shaninag?

Skrall
12-22-2010, 10:17 AM
No matter what you say, no matter what you do and no matter how many facts/proofs you give to those Madara/Tobi=Obito believers, they will still say that Madara/Tobi=Obito. In order to make them believe that Madara/Tobi isn't Obito, Kishi has to draw in a huge panel (that occupies 2 pages) in the manga, Madara revealing his face and saying (in big words) "I'M NOT OBITO, YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Wooster
01-05-2011, 07:30 AM
Isn't it lovely? :]

zerosameri
01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Isn't it lovely? :]
It is. I should edited the OP now to make it a wall of text `:P

Wooster
01-06-2011, 09:45 AM
Go ahead. This section is the archives, wheere old is good. :lol:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 10:11 AM
Go ahead. This section is the archives, wheere old is good. :lol:
You should just merge all of the awesome Madara = Tobi threads to this one to make 1 super thread for lulz :lol:

Wooster
01-06-2011, 11:38 AM
Ehh, it would have taken too much time. I just chose the best Madara=Tobi and Tobi=Obito threads and moved them here. :lol:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 11:56 AM
Ehh, it would have taken too much time. I just chose the best Madara=Tobi and Tobi=Obito threads and moved them here. :lol:True. I have like 10 threads on this, so I have no idea why you choose this one. Elaborate?

Wooster
01-06-2011, 12:12 PM
It had the most replies.

I also put the best Tobi=Obito in here. You should go bump it and laugh at Phoenix once again. You, Sticky and I eviscerated him. :lol:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 12:25 PM
It had the most replies.

I also put the best Tobi=Obito in here. You should go bump it and laugh at Phoenix once again. You, Sticky and I eviscerated him. :lol:
Ah.

My god that thread. I never hated a thread so much. He should at lest of said that he was Sasuke mom. SHE even has more of a chance than obito.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 01:23 PM
Ah.

My god that thread. I never hated a thread so much. He should at lest of said that he was Sasuke mom. SHE even has more of a chance than obito.
That thread shows how he was not arguing from reason but by belief.
When events from the manga trashed his initial reasons, he changed why and how Obito is Tobi. Thus, he started with that hypothesis and choose and cherry picked facts that supported said crack-pot theory.

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 01:26 PM
That thread shows how he was not arguing from reason but by belief.
When events from the manga trashed his initial reasons, he changed why and how Obito is Tobi. Thus, he started with that hypothesis and choose and cherry picked facts that supported said crack-pot theory.If your are going to argue, you need reason.

And that's why he failed at it. You can not cherry pick facts you like. If I did that I could say Naruto and Sasuke are brothers.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 01:43 PM
If your are going to argue, you need reason.

And that's why he failed at it. You can not cherry pick facts you like. If I did that I could say Naruto and Sasuke are brothers.
I want to see that thread. :lol:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 02:55 PM
I want to see that thread. :lol:
If I picked the facts I like, I could make a good-failed argument saying Sasuke and Naruto are brothers while Madara is a cousin. :lol: But If I did that, we all know what will happen.

SilentBlade
01-13-2011, 10:41 AM
You know, I agree with the fact that Kishi want's us to follow this line of thinking that Tobi is Madara, but we should consider motivation more so than just what we are being lead to believe. While it could be completely possible, from what we know about Madara, his motivation was never really world dominance! His goal was always to further the Uchiha clan and to make it strong, to protect it (so for the most part a noble goal).

We consider Tobi has no real noble goal, while we know that Madara and Hashirama fought a last big battle, and while we know that it is difficult to get a long with a former enemy being now in charge along with discrimination from that leader, one could still argue that even that would not prompt someone to take over the world! Also it seems very counter to Madara's beliefs to so simply discard Sauske or even use him as a token being an Uchiha and having him be the last of the Uchiha clan.

Tobi appears to be much more sinister than Madara, where Madara was noble and looking out for his clan, Tobi is more focused on himself and world domination. I suppose my argument is to say that Tobi may not be Madara, and the solution to his real identity is still an issue (meaning this isn't a Tobi=x, but a Tobi = ?).

zerosameri
01-13-2011, 10:44 AM
You know, I agree with the fact that Kishi want's us to follow this line of thinking that Tobi is Madara, but we should consider motivation more so than just what we are being lead to believe. While it could be completely possible, from what we know about Madara, his motivation was never really world dominance! His goal was always to further the Uchiha clan and to make it strong, to protect it (so for the most part a noble goal).

We consider Tobi has no real noble goal, while we know that Madara and Hashirama fought a last big battle, and while we know that it is difficult to get a long with a former enemy being now in charge along with discrimination from that leader, one could still argue that even that would not prompt someone to take over the world! Also it seems very counter to Madara's beliefs to so simply discard Sauske or even use him as a token being an Uchiha and having him be the last of the Uchiha clan.

Tobi appears to be much more sinister than Madara, where Madara was noble and looking out for his clan, Tobi is more focused on himself and world domination. I suppose my argument is to say that Tobi may not be Madara, and the solution to his real identity is still an issue (meaning this isn't a Tobi=x, but a Tobi = ?).
Then you should go to D330's thread saying Madara = him = Him = Him = Him

SilentBlade
01-13-2011, 12:15 PM
ah, but thats the thing, it puts that mystery back on to who Madara really is. It should make the consideration of others that perhaps had more sinister view of the world to be taken into account? While I agree it's not Obito (which would also lack motivation), what would motivate Madara to take vengence any further than the leaf village?

Uchiha_Itachi93
01-13-2011, 08:18 PM
Yellow.
Also what gives you the right to tell People to let him be dead?
It's Fiction.It's a Theory and damn sure not up to you to tell People to "Let it go".


while many people think that Tobi is Obito, he is not! we all know this for a fact. Look I don't mind when people have theories like this, when it first came out I was veryinterested, but now it has gone too far. Another thing I was thinking of was that Obito's entire right side and his left leg too was completly crushed. a small portion of his righ side of his face was also crushed. If by chance Tobi is Obito, how did he gain his body back. When Madara finally gets the rinnegan, we can see that both of his eyes work. And his has complete function of all his limbs. If he somehow regrew them or someone else healed them, then why didn't they do that to save Obito in the first place?

And plus when Madara went to steal the nine tailsand confronted Minato, don't you think that the timeline between then and the Third great ninja war is alittle soon for "Obito" to have made a full recovery? He would not have been able to fight with Minato the way he did. And don't you think that Minato would be able to reconize his own student?

Pierrot
01-14-2011, 08:25 AM
Not to be a jack***, but if Obito is dead couldn't Kabuto summon him then?

But really there is no way Obito is Tobi. In mrsticky's devil's advocate thread. We actually found it led to a logical fallacy. Therefore, even if Kishimoto did it, there would be a massive plot hole.

Kabuto: Oh! I couldnt summon him because I might hurt my back lifting all those rocks! I could always get Kakashi's sharingan, but noooooo It would be too much work!
Kabuto: I cant summon Jiraiya, because it would hurt being under all that pressure! Sure I can use my perfect intelligence and some random jutsu to survive the pressure, but thats too much WORK!!!!!!!

Kabuto is a lazy !@#$

Wooster
12-02-2011, 05:22 PM
Heehee, zero. I pulled this out of the archives for you. :3

zerosameri
12-02-2011, 05:28 PM
Heehee, zero. I pulled this out of the archives for you. :3Right as I saw this I said "F he is dead" :lol:

I still have "what the hell man" after shock...

Wooster
12-02-2011, 05:39 PM
Yes, Tobi is not Madara; he is zero. :ugeek: YOUR SECRET IS OUT

AfterDark
02-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Madara can't be Tobi because he was revived with the Edo Tensei so who knows what or who Tobi is.