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View Full Version : Sasori, Itachi Vs Leaf (konoha)


prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:34 AM
only ninja's alive at the momntt can take part.

i think sasori and Itachi take this with relative ease as the only really difficult ninja's they have to take on is Kakashi and tsunade and i think itachi wll solo both of them quite quickly and then sasori can possibly take out all inferior targets using all his puppet abilities and with the very few ninja's left itachi and sasori can destroy them with ease.

what do you think?

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 09:35 AM
only ninja's alive at the momntt can take part.

i think sasori and Itachi take this with relative ease as the only really difficult ninja's they have to take on is Kakashi and tsunade and i think itachi wll solo both of them quite quickly and then sasori can possibly take out all inferior targets using all his puppet abilities and with the very few ninja's left itachi and sasori can destroy them with ease.

what do you think?

agree with you

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:36 AM
With Susanoo, that sealing sword he used on Orochimaru, and his extensive use of sharingan, I'd venture to say he could solo the entire leaf, without Sasori. That's just me though.

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 09:37 AM
only ninja's alive at the momntt can take part.

i think sasori and Itachi take this with relative ease as the only really difficult ninja's they have to take on is Kakashi and tsunade and i think itachi wll solo both of them quite quickly and then sasori can possibly take out all inferior targets using all his puppet abilities and with the very few ninja's left itachi and sasori can destroy them with ease.

what do you think?

What are you talking about?

Are you forgetting about SM Naruto?

SM Naruto>Sasori
Kakashi, Tsunade, and SM Naruto> Itachi

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:39 AM
My argument excludes SM Naruto, I only watch the anime as it is updated on this site, so I'm not privy to all knowledge.

Blind Uchiha
04-10-2010, 09:39 AM
What are you talking about?

Are you forgetting about SM Naruto?

SM Naruto>Sasori
Kakashi, Tsunade, and SM Naruto> Itachi

^^This, plus the fact that Konoha's sheer numbers would overwhelm Sasori and Itachi.

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:41 AM
What are you talking about?

Are you forgetting about SM Naruto?

SM Naruto>Sasori
Kakashi, Tsunade, and SM Naruto> Itachi

SM naruto isnt amazing, all it does is make your taijutsu stronger, ninjustu have more effect and in narutos case doesnt have a effect on genjutsu (because he doesnt have any)

SM naruto is not better than sasori, sasori's flamethrower alone could beat him, or his 100 puppets, or his 3rd kazekage and his poison gas.

and itachi can take out kakashi in a second (again) and tsunade wont last very long either against itachi's speed and genjutsu abilities and naruto would have already been taken out by sasori.

Itachi handles all the difficult one-on-one tasks whereas sasori causes destruction and kills the weak

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:41 AM
Iron sand would overwhelm THEM.

You'd think that the sheer numbers of the entire Uchiha clan would overwhelm Itachi, but that was clearly not the case.

Besides, sasori has his mass puppet spam as well.

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:43 AM
Iron sand would overwhelm THEM.

You'd think that the sheer numbers of the entire Uchiha clan would overwhelm Itachi, but that was clearly not the case.

Besides, sasori has his mass puppet spam as well.

totally agree!

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 09:44 AM
If kakashi, tsunade, and the konoha 11 can hold out against sasori and itachi long enough for naruto to go SM than konoha can win. SM naruto could speedblitz sasori and FRS would take out itachi, possibly even if itachi is in susano'o.

So i say that the leaf village wins this witha good amount of difficulty, but in the end there are just too many ninja that could buy time for naruto to go SM.

Also some of you are underestimating kakashi. Given enough prep, he could use kamui on sasori's heart to take him out. konoha wins.

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:46 AM
If kakashi, tsunade, and the konoha 11 can hold out against sasori and itachi long enough for naruto to go SM than konoha can win. SM naruto could speedblitz sasori and FRS would take out itachi, possibly even if itachi is in susano'o.

So i say that the leaf village wins this witha good amount of difficulty, but in the end there are just too many ninja that could buy time for naruto to go SM.

Also some of you are underestimating kakashi. Given enough prep, he could use kamui on sasori's heart to take him out. konoha wins.

but he gets beaten in a second by Itachi?

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:46 AM
And you are underestimating Susaano, a technique Itachi was using when he was nearly dead. Imagine him unscathed using it along with Amaterasu.

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 09:49 AM
SM naruto isnt amazing, all it does is make your taijutsu stronger, ninjustu have more effect and in narutos case doesnt have a effect on genjutsu (because he doesnt have any)

SM naruto is not better than sasori, sasori's flamethrower alone could beat him, or his 100 puppets, or his 3rd kazekage and his poison gas.

and itachi can take out kakashi in a second (again) and tsunade wont last very long either against itachi's speed and genjutsu abilities and naruto would have already been taken out by sasori.

Itachi handles all the difficult one-on-one tasks whereas sasori causes destruction and kills the weak

You don't seem to remember that Sakura broke Hiruko with Taijutsu. SM Naruto>Base Sakura. He could kill Sasori with Clone spam in SM.

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
And how does SM counter instantaneous genjutsu, which would probably be applied far before he achieved SM to begin with, penetrate susaano, or counter the sealing sword (which I STILL cannot effing remember the name of).

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
And you are underestimating Susaano, a technique Itachi was using when he was nearly dead. Imagine him unscathed using it along with Amaterasu.

almost invincible, i mean look at pains invasion? pain was obviously outnumbered yet every one of his bodies individually destrpyed the leaf and the people in it no matter how good they were supposed to be

and itachi and sasori are the same standard or even better than the pain bodies one-on-one (except deva ofc)

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 09:51 AM
If kakashi, tsunade, and the konoha 11 can hold out against sasori and itachi long enough for naruto to go SM than konoha can win. SM naruto could speedblitz sasori and FRS would take out itachi, possibly even if itachi is in susano'o.

So i say that the leaf village wins this witha good amount of difficulty, but in the end there are just too many ninja that could buy time for naruto to go SM.

Also some of you are underestimating kakashi. Given enough prep, he could use kamui on sasori's heart to take him out. konoha wins.

you understimate sasori he can avoid kamui just transport his heart in another puppet or block it with iron sand

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:51 AM
You don't seem to remember that Sakura broke Hiruko with Taijutsu. SM Naruto>Base Sakura. He could kill Sasori with Clone spam in SM.

plot-no-jutsu, and he couldnt kill sasori, sasori is a long range fighter and his iron sand can jus destroy all the clones, even his flamthrower and poison gas could kill him

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:52 AM
*puts fingers in ears, closes eyes, and says LALALALALALA

(i haven't seen that far (Pain attacks Konoha)).

Blind Uchiha
04-10-2010, 09:53 AM
SM naruto isnt amazing, all it does is make your taijutsu stronger, ninjustu have more effect and in narutos case doesnt have a effect on genjutsu (because he doesnt have any)

SM naruto is not better than sasori, sasori's flamethrower alone could beat him, or his 100 puppets, or his 3rd kazekage and his poison gas.

and itachi can take out kakashi in a second (again) and tsunade wont last very long either against itachi's speed and genjutsu abilities and naruto would have already been taken out by sasori.

Itachi handles all the difficult one-on-one tasks whereas sasori causes destruction and kills the weak

Major wanking going on here. Naruto's FRS one shots Sasori who doesn't have the speed to dodge. Kakashi could kill Sasori while he was still in Hiruko with Raikiri. Itachi hasn't shown the ability to maintain Susano'o longer than five minutes.

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Because he was near death. That being said, Kakashi hasn't shown the ability to withstand an encounter with Itachi for longer than a few seconds.

Tsunade sure as hell couldn't.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 09:54 AM
You don't seem to remember that Sakura broke Hiruko with Taijutsu. SM Naruto>Base Sakura. He could kill Sasori with Clone spam in SM.

sakura is nothing he not even stant 5 seconds she could servive because chiyo wos there

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 09:54 AM
plot-no-jutsu, and he couldnt kill sasori, sasori is a long range fighter and his iron sand can jus destroy all the clones, even his flamthrower and poison gas could kill him

His flamthrower is only Anime.

Poison Gas is easily evaded with Sage Mode because it enhances his speed. While the gas is just a big cloud. I'm also pretty sure clones don't have human bodies, so they wouldn't die from poison gas. You're forgetting that they're just chakra. :lol:

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:55 AM
Shadow clones have been drowned before, I'm pretty sure.

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 09:55 AM
but he gets beaten in a second by Itachi?

No one said that kakashi had to take on itachi 1v1. This is not the case, there are plenty of ninja in konoha capable of breaking kakashi out of any genjutsu itachi has. All they have to do is flood chalkra into him, which every konoha ninja is capable of. So your arguement of "kakashi gets pwned by genjutsu!!!!" doesnt really work.

SM naruto isnt amazing, all it does is make your taijutsu stronger, ninjustu have more effect and in narutos case doesnt have a effect on genjutsu (because he doesnt have any)

SM naruto is not better than sasori, sasori's flamethrower alone could beat him, or his 100 puppets, or his 3rd kazekage and his poison gas.

and itachi can take out kakashi in a second (again) and tsunade wont last very long either against itachi's speed and genjutsu abilities and naruto would have already been taken out by sasori.

Itachi handles all the difficult one-on-one tasks whereas sasori causes destruction and kills the weak

Naruto in SM makes him one of the fastest characters in all of naruto. Increases his strength, and increases the potency of all of his jutsus, as well as gives him access to FRS. So ya, it kinda is amazing bud.

LOL at sasori's flamethrower doing ANYTHING. Naruto in SM is way too fast for it, it wont even be a problem. Sasori's 100 puppets are all just fodder that can be taken out easily, they have shown no feats besides just charging at people with weapons. Iron sand is sasori's only real threat, which once again SM naruto could outspeed. And poison gas is stationary, and could be dodged by nearly any character.

Once again its not like the konoha ninja will just line up and take on itachi 1v1. Itachi will have to take on a giant amount of ninja alll at once. Which will buy time for naruto to go SM, in which case Itachi will lose.

GG

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 09:55 AM
sakura is nothing he not even stant 5 seconds she could servive because chiyo wos there

That means you're stating that Sasori is nothing because she was still capable of decimating Hiruko.

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 09:56 AM
Shadow clones have been drowned before, I'm pretty sure.

But water pressure can kill them, not a little cloud.

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:57 AM
Major wanking going on here. Naruto's FRS one shots Sasori who doesn't have the speed to dodge. Kakashi could kill Sasori while he was still in Hiruko with Raikiri. Itachi hasn't shown the ability to maintain Susano'o longer than five minutes.

sasori DOES have the speed to dodge, he's so fast his actions became blurry to sakura and chiyo at one point, and if naruto gets close he'll be annihalted.

also, the poison gas can be used at the beginning and naruto will die a painful death

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 09:58 AM
That means you're stating that Sasori is nothing because she was still capable of decimating Hiruko.

do you listening what i am saying sakura servived because chiya was there

prasanth
04-10-2010, 09:58 AM
No one said that kakashi had to take on itachi 1v1. This is not the case, there are plenty of ninja in konoha capable of breaking kakashi out of any genjutsu itachi has. All they have to do is flood chalkra into him, which every konoha ninja is capable of. So your arguement of "kakashi gets pwned by genjutsu!!!!" doesnt really work.



Naruto in SM makes him one of the fastest characters in all of naruto. Increases his strength, and increases the potency of all of his jutsus, as well as gives him access to FRS. So ya, it kinda is amazing bud.

LOL at sasori's flamethrower doing ANYTHING. Naruto in SM is way too fast for it, it wont even be a problem. Sasori's 100 puppets are all just fodder that can be taken out easily, they have shown no feats besides just charging at people with weapons. Iron sand is sasori's only real threat, which once again SM naruto could outspeed. And poison gas is stationary, and could be dodged by nearly any character.

Once again its not like the konoha ninja will just line up and take on itachi 1v1. Itachi will have to take on a giant amount of ninja alll at once. Which will buy time for naruto to go SM, in which case Itachi will lose.

GG

naruto isnt even that fast even in sage mode?

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 09:59 AM
His flamthrower is only Anime.

Actually i thought that flamethrower was canon and that water jets were anime? Doesnt really matter though :mrgreen:

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 09:59 AM
Naruto outruns Iron Sand? I doubt it. Sm or not, that attack is too fast. And very few shinobi have the potential to counter Amaterasu, which Itachi could use just as effectively (though not at fast) as Sasori uses Iron Sand. Two wide spread uber devastating lethal attacks like that aren't so easy to counter with just 'numbers'.

Blind Uchiha
04-10-2010, 10:01 AM
sasori DOES have the speed to dodge, he's so fast his actions became blurry to sakura and chiyo at one point, and if naruto gets close he'll be annihalted.

also, the poison gas can be used at the beginning and naruto will die a painful death

Sasori is nowhere near fast enough to dodge FRS which happens to be hypersonic. Additionally, FRS can be thrown from a distance and still wipe out Sasori whose speed is at best supersonic.

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:01 AM
sasori DOES have the speed to dodge, he's so fast his actions became blurry to sakura and chiyo at one point, and if naruto gets close he'll be annihalted.

also, the poison gas can be used at the beginning and naruto will die a painful death

This however is wrong. Long range, Naruto is toast, IMO. If SM somehow manages to get close to him however, its game over.

Shikamaru Nara
04-10-2010, 10:02 AM
do you listening what i am saying sakura servived because chiya was there

I know that, but she also was able to break Hiruko regardless. DAMN!

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Naruto outruns Iron Sand? I doubt it. Sm or not, that attack is too fast. And very few shinobi have the potential to counter Amaterasu, which Itachi could use just as effectively (though not at fast) as Sasori uses Iron Sand. Two wide spread uber devastating lethal attacks like that aren't so easy to counter with just 'numbers'.

You already said that you are only up to date through the anime. So if that is the case please do not make arguements about abilites which you have not even seen yet.

SM naruto IS fast enough to dodge iron sand, iron sand is probably only sonic, which naruto in SM is faster than.

Once again you wouldnt know if you dont read manga but many characters now have shown the speed to dodge amaterasu, naruto being one of them.

Actually i never said that those "numbers" would have to do anything. All they have to do is get in the way long enough for naruto to prep SM. Which would be easy. Also you make it sound as if itachi can spam ammy, wich he cant, a few ammys and itachi will be out of stamina.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:05 AM
I know that, but she also was able to break Hiruko regardless. DAMN!

she was able to break hiruko because chiyo was there

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:07 AM
do you listening what i am saying sakura servived because chiya was there

I know that, but she also was able to break Hiruko regardless. DAMN!

Again, this is where range comes into effect. Long range, sakura is toast, can't even think about hurting hiruko. She got close thanks to lady chiyo's human puppetry.

Close range, it was fairly obvious Hiruko was toast.

I doubt sakura could ever get close to him without chiyo being around to help her. Kakashi might, with sharingan helping to identify his attacks though.

Does nobody remember how much prep time it took to make the antidotes to sasori's poison? so it's rather obvious there is none this time, nor chiyo around to help. If ANYONE in Konoha gets hit my the massive Iron sand attack, it's over for them in seconds. Even one scratch from a grain of iron sand is lethal.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:07 AM
You already said that you are only up to date through the anime. So if that is the case please do not make arguements about abilites which you have not even seen yet.

SM naruto IS fast enough to dodge iron sand, iron sand is probably only sonic, which naruto in SM is faster than.

Once again you wouldnt know if you dont read manga but many characters now have shown the speed to dodge amaterasu, naruto being one of them.

Actually i never said that those "numbers" would have to do anything. All they have to do is get in the way long enough for naruto to prep SM. Which would be easy. Also you make it sound as if itachi can spam ammy, wich he cant, a few ammys and itachi will be out of stamina.

where you have seen naruto able to dodge amaterasu are you dreaming things

prasanth
04-10-2010, 10:08 AM
This however is wrong. Long range, Naruto is toast, IMO. If SM somehow manages to get close to him however, its game over.

but the thing is SM naruto cant get close because he will be overwhelmed by sasori's puppet techs

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:09 AM
You already said that you are only up to date through the anime. So if that is the case please do not make arguements about abilites which you have not even seen yet.

SM naruto IS fast enough to dodge iron sand, iron sand is probably only sonic, which naruto in SM is faster than.

Once again you wouldnt know if you dont read manga but many characters now have shown the speed to dodge amaterasu, naruto being one of them.

Actually i never said that those "numbers" would have to do anything. All they have to do is get in the way long enough for naruto to prep SM. Which would be easy. Also you make it sound as if itachi can spam ammy, wich he cant, a few ammys and itachi will be out of stamina.

ONE ammy was enough to cover his final battlefield. Throwing that out there for your consideration, he wouldn't need to use it more than once, on a larger scale like his fight with sasuke.

prasanth
04-10-2010, 10:09 AM
Naruto SM doesnt have any speed feats apart from FRS which is the only fast attack he has...

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:11 AM
but the thing is SM naruto cant get close because he will be overwhelmed by sasori's puppet techs

Puppet techs? Clarify, because if you mean his 100 puppets technique, I'm sure SM Naruto could smash through them with ease. I have no idea where the guy saying it is faster than iron sand is getting his numbers,, but the puppets aren't Sasori's best technique by a long shot. Sakura was even decimating a few of them.

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 10:11 AM
where you have seen naruto able to dodle amaterasu are you dreaming things

No, i never said that, you are putting words in my mouth. What i said is that some characters in naruto HAVE shown the speed to dodge ammy. Take the ragikage for instance, he was able to dodge sasuke's ammy pretty easily in his raiton armor. And speed wise naruto in SM is very comparable to Ragikage in raiton armor. Its called logic.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Naruto SM doesnt have any speed feats apart from FRS which is the only fast attack he has...
agree with you i know only that sage mod increase the strength of all ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu but i hadent heared to increase speed

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:15 AM
No, i never said that, you are putting words in my mouth. What i said is that some characters in naruto HAVE shown the speed to dodge ammy. Take the ragikage for instance, he was able to dodge sasuke's ammy pretty easily in his raiton armor. And speed wise naruto in SM is very comparable to Ragikage in raiton armor. Its called logic.

i have never seen naruto in SM had speed like raikage he is the only character that i have seen to dodge amaterasu

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:16 AM
agree with you i know only that sage mod increase the strength of all ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu but i hadent heared to increase speed

?????

SM Jiraiya's speed went way up, did it not?

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:17 AM
?????

SM Jiraiya's speed went way up, did it not?

yes increase but i say not enough to dodge amaterasu like raikage

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 10:22 AM
i have never seen naruto in SM had speed like raikage he is the only character that i have seen to dodge amaterasu

wow you need to re-read chapters 431-440 of the manga. SM naruto has shown the speed to keep up with two animal summons simultaneasly and rasengan them. He completely blitzed hungery ghost path. Dodged an attack from pains bird summon, blitzed animal path, kept pace with deva path, and blitzed naraka path.

So for you to sit there and say that SM naruto lacks speed feats is rediculous. He kept up with pain, one of the fastest characters in naruto. So using logic you can assume that his speed is similar to A's, and therefore he is able to dodge amaterasu, and blitz itachi and sasori. GG

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:26 AM
wow you need to re-read chapters 431-440 of the manga. SM naruto has shown the speed to keep up with two animal summons simultaneasly and rasengan them. He completely blitzed hungery ghost path. Dodged an attack from pains bird summon, blitzed animal path, kept pace with deva path, and blitzed naraka path.

So for you to sit there and say that SM naruto lacks speed feats is rediculous. He kept up with pain, one of the fastest characters in naruto. So using logic you can assume that his speed is similar to A's, and therefore he is able to dodge amaterasu, and blitz itachi and sasori. GG

now you say that naruto have the same speed like raikage

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 10:30 AM
now you say that naruto have the same speed like raikage
Wow i literally think you dont know what logic is. I clearly said in my post that SM naruto's speed is SIMILAR to raikage's. I did not say that they were the same. Indeed raikage is probably a little faster than SM naruto, however their speeds are still similar enough to the point where if raikage can dodge ammy so easily, than so could SM naruto, maybe not as easily, but he would still dodge it.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 10:42 AM
you are the one who dont know what logic is litlle faster similar your point is that you want to say tha he cant dodge amaterasu because raikage has the speed like minato and you saying me that naruto has the speed similar too raikage thne he is invicible

Yori
04-10-2010, 10:46 AM
SM naruto isnt amazing, all it does is make your taijutsu stronger, ninjustu have more effect and in narutos case doesnt have a effect on genjutsu (because he doesnt have any)

SM naruto is not better than sasori, sasori's flamethrower alone could beat him, or his 100 puppets, or his 3rd kazekage and his poison gas.

and itachi can take out kakashi in a second (again) and tsunade wont last very long either against itachi's speed and genjutsu abilities and naruto would have already been taken out by sasori.

Itachi handles all the difficult one-on-one tasks whereas sasori causes destruction and kills the weak

Wow Brah, SM naruto isn't amazing?

Sasori flamethrower is not fast enough to keep up with Naruto in SM. Naruto in SM kept up with Deva path and he was Supersonic. Naruto wouldn't even have to summon to take Sasori out. A Wind style Rasenshuriken would take out most of the puppets alone because in SM naruto can expand the size of it. Sasori is pretty much screwed because his true form really does nothing against a SM naruto.

Itachi wouldn't take out Kakashi in a second, unless Itachi uses Susano'o at the beginning and he wouldn't do that. But Itachi speed and strength is over Kakashi so Kakashi eventually will lose against Itachi but not without inflicting damage on Itachi.

Now it's SM Naruto against Itachi. Itachi would have no choice but to go Susano'o against him and Susano'o strains the body greatly when using it. So the duration is against Itachi when using it. Now I fail to see how SM Naruto can beat Itachi at this point. Unless Boss summons by him time long enough for Itachi to tire out completely and Susano'o is no more. Now if that happens then Naruto could just do a Rasengan and end it there.

The SM Naruto vs. Itachi could go either way, depends on time and stamina. But Sasori against Naruto, Sasori doesn't stand a chance

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:52 AM
ISn't Iron Sand Supersonic as well? It is a lot harder to keep up with than ammy, and its not a person, it can be dispersed. I still FAIL to see how anyone in Konoha counters this. Can someone please explain.

Kakashi has still shown nothing that demonstrates he will last any longer against MS than he did the first time. So yes, Itachi could still own him in a second. And that genjutsu isn't anything like normal genjutsu, kakashi was hospitalized for days.

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 10:53 AM
you are the one who dont know what logic is litlle faster similar your point is that you want to say tha he cant dodge amaterasu because raikage has the speed like minato and you saying me that naruto has the speed similar too raikage thne he is invicible

Ladies and gentlemen i rest my case. I dont mean any offense by this at all but you misspelled or typoed 95% of the words in your reply, and honestly i cant even figure out what your trying to say. I am argueing that SM naruto has enough speed to dodge all of sasori's and Itachi's attacks. And i have provided a surplus of feats to back up my points, which have yet to be countered by anyone.

Yori Uchiha did a very good job of summarizing up this fight. Sm naruto would destroy Sasori. And then against Itachi it would come down to a battle of stamina. However i believe that with all of the medical ninja in konoha that would be able to restore naruto (Tsunade anyone?) as well as all of the other ninja helping out that itachi would get overwhelmed and would be chalkra drained to death. So konoha wins.

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Field Med-nin is nowhere near as effective as other types. They couldn't for example completely heal anyone, restore too much chakra, or cure sasori's poison. I can't find any databooks that say SM naruto is fast enough to dodge Iron sand or Ammy. If one is shown, I'll concede with ease. But so far it has been nothing but impossible and indirect comparisons.

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 11:03 AM
Field Med-nin is nowhere near as effective as other types. They couldn't for example completely heal anyone, restore too much chakra, or cure sasori's poison. I can't find any databooks that say SM naruto is fast enough to dodge Iron sand or Ammy. If one is shown, I'll concede with ease. But so far it has been nothing but impossible and indirect comparisons.

FYI im not sure if anyone has ever told you so i will. But in the BGs databooks are not used when determining outcomes. A great deal of its statistics are incorrect and flawed. You have to remember that the databooks were created for one purpose: to make money. Not to provide accurate info about the naruto world. So while in the BGs only manga feats are considered when determing an outcome.

Sm naruto wont be getting hit by iron sand. And when i brought up my medical nin point i meant that in the off chance that naruto ran out of stamina before itachi did then someone like tsunade would be able to heal naruto and restore his chalkra levels while other fodder ninja held off itachi. Basically my debate comes down to the fact that SM naruto+large amount of fodder ninja help+medical/restore support from tsunade+kakashi is too much for sasori and itachi to handle. Sasori could be killed in a few different ways and itachi would be overwhelmed and chalkra drained.

Yori
04-10-2010, 11:03 AM
Field Med-nin is nowhere near as effective as other types. They couldn't for example completely heal anyone, restore too much chakra, or cure sasori's poison. I can't find any databooks that say SM naruto is fast enough to dodge Iron sand or Ammy. If one is shown, I'll concede with ease. But so far it has been nothing but impossible and indirect comparisons.

There isn't data on SM Naruto stats yet. Ammy ignites at the focus of the user vision. SM Naruto is Supersonic so as long as Naruto is on the move igniting Ammy on Naruto is not likely.

Kuromaki
04-10-2010, 11:03 AM
I can't find any databooks that say SM naruto is fast enough to dodge Iron sand or Ammy. If one is shown, I'll concede with ease. But so far it has been nothing but impossible and indirect comparisons.
Databooks are unreliable when it comes to that kind of stuff...

SM Naruto was able to blitz Asura Path who was like transonic, and he kept up with Pain, I'll have to go reread later to look up more speed feats.

Regardless, I fail to see how Sasori can avoid SM Naruto's FRS.

I do think Sasori & Itachi take this with difficulty due to SM Naruto.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 11:04 AM
Field Med-nin is nowhere near as effective as other types. They couldn't for example completely heal anyone, restore too much chakra, or cure sasori's poison. I can't find any databooks that say SM naruto is fast enough to dodge Iron sand or Ammy. If one is shown, I'll concede with ease. But so far it has been nothing but impossible and indirect comparisons.

man just dont tolk to them they just cant understan first he is saying that SM is fast as raikage then he tell that it si little slower just can understand them

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 11:09 AM
Nope, no one's ever told me. I just think its too unbelievable to compare SM Naruto to Raikage. The two never fought, Raikage never fought Pain, so to say that Naruto could probably keep up with him is too much of a stretch. That's where I find the hole in the arguments made thus far.

And who's to say the fodder ninja and tsunade wouldn't be taken out first? I mean, they are less likely to survive than the others mentioned, and probably won't be around to help.

EDIT: Hole fixed. I think that's what Daybreak was trying to say in relating speeds now that I look back.

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 11:12 AM
man just dont tolk to them they just cant understan first he is saying that SM is fast as raikage then he tell that it si little slower just can understand them

I'm not going to NOT talk to someone who disagrees with me, BG section is for debates. Daybreak is doing exactly what he ought to be, defending his postition. I'm glad he is. I'm trying to get someone to help me understand their side, especially since I don't know ALL the facts. So rather than trash them, I'll hear them out.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm not going to NOT talk to someone who disagrees with me, BG section is for debates. Daybreak is doing exactly what he ought to be, defending his postition. I'm glad he is. I'm trying to get someone to help me understand their side, especially since I don't know ALL the facts. So rather than trash them, I'll hear them out.

you dumb i dont mean to not tolk to them i just saiying that we cant get to the point

JCTKNE4E
04-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Hold on. I'm dumb?

You ought to re-read and rethink your poorly spelled posts before you insult someone else's intelligence.

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 11:22 AM
Hold on. I'm dumb?

You ought to re-read and rethink your poorly spelled posts before you insult someone else's intelligence.

lol i just mean by dumb that you what you said before i didnt like it

arsenakos
04-10-2010, 11:23 AM
if that was your opinion for me then hold it for yourself i never trash them

Black Shuck
04-10-2010, 11:36 AM
kakashi, tsunade, guy, hiashi, shizune, kuranei, yamato, ebisu, shikaku, ibiki, shino, neji, naruto, sakura, shikamaru, tenten, kiba, choji, shibi, sai, lee, ino, anko, kotetsu, izumo, fu, anbu cap, ... etc etc.

guess konoha have a darn pretty good chance.

e710
04-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Everyone stalls till Naruto goes SM. After that Sasori gets FRS and he is done for. Then Itachi dies by overuse of MS as seen VS Sasuke.

Slack 40
04-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I give this to leaf village.
SM naruto is faster then sasori, and FRS takes him down.
During their fight Guy uses gates and finishes off sasori with SM naruto.
Naruto's summons the toads which help out alot.
Tsuande, Yamato, Konoha 11 with sai instead of naruto, Kurenai, ibiki, anko, and the other ninja fight itachi. While their holding off itachi kakashi will prep for kaumi. By now guy and naruto should have beaten sasori then they can join in on fighting itachi who would probably have susano'o out. Kakashi will then kaumi itachi's head while he is inside susano'o, because he wasn't fast in it. If he isn't able to get itachi's head because he's in susanoo then some of susanoo will be warped and the ninja can take down itachi

Yori
04-10-2010, 11:44 AM
kakashi, tsunade, guy, hiashi, shizune, kuranei, yamato, ebisu, shikaku, ibiki, shino, neji, naruto, sakura, shikamaru, tenten, kiba, choji, shibi, sai, lee, ino, anko, kotetsu, izumo, fu, anbu cap, ... etc etc.

guess konoha have a darn pretty good chance.

Ammy takes out the ones in the green

Iron Sand takes out the ones in purple

Tsyu takes out the one in red

In blue is the difficult ones

Bacon
04-10-2010, 11:52 AM
Unless Itachi's eyes become like Madara's, he will tire out far too soon. The Anbu, Guy and Kakashi alone would Be enough to kill him. As for Sasori, we already saw Sakura with help kill him. There is no match here, the Akatsuki are strong,but the reason they stayed secret was because the an army of shinobi would crush them.

e710
04-10-2010, 12:04 PM
Unless Itachi's eyes become like Madara's, he will tire out far too soon. The Anbu, Guy and Kakashi alone would Be enough to kill him. As for Sasori, we already saw Sakura with help kill him. There is no match here, the Akatsuki are strong,but the reason they stayed secret was because the an army of shinobi would crush them.

I agree Itachi would do some serious damage but not for long. As for Sasori, Naruto kills him. Naruto summons toads so Naruto can go SM. Also I don't see Sasori taking down the toads before Naruto goes SM and if sasori does Tsuneda or Guy hold Sasori off. Once in SM Naruto's Rasen-shurken will kill Sasori and his heart or Kakashi could just Kamui it:mrgreen:.

Black Shuck
04-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Ammy takes out the ones in the green

Iron Sand takes out the ones in purple

Tsyu takes out the one in red

In blue is the difficult ones
well... assuming you're correct;
when itachi's done with greenies he'll drop dead overusing the ms.
and the other colours will die taking sasori down with them.

still konoha wins. :mrgreen:

prasanth
04-10-2010, 04:21 PM
Wow Brah, SM naruto isn't amazing?

Sasori flamethrower is not fast enough to keep up with Naruto in SM. Naruto in SM kept up with Deva path and he was Supersonic. Naruto wouldn't even have to summon to take Sasori out. A Wind style Rasenshuriken would take out most of the puppets alone because in SM naruto can expand the size of it. Sasori is pretty much screwed because his true form really does nothing against a SM naruto.

Itachi wouldn't take out Kakashi in a second, unless Itachi uses Susano'o at the beginning and he wouldn't do that. But Itachi speed and strength is over Kakashi so Kakashi eventually will lose against Itachi but not without inflicting damage on Itachi.

Now it's SM Naruto against Itachi. Itachi would have no choice but to go Susano'o against him and Susano'o strains the body greatly when using it. So the duration is against Itachi when using it. Now I fail to see how SM Naruto can beat Itachi at this point. Unless Boss summons by him time long enough for Itachi to tire out completely and Susano'o is no more. Now if that happens then Naruto could just do a Rasengan and end it there.

The SM Naruto vs. Itachi could go either way, depends on time and stamina. But Sasori against Naruto, Sasori doesn't stand a chance

Itachi will destroy him almost immediately, SM only makes you stronger in tai and your ninjutsu's have more effect thats it... it doesnt make you alot faster

prasanth
04-10-2010, 04:28 PM
No one said that kakashi had to take on itachi 1v1. This is not the case, there are plenty of ninja in konoha capable of breaking kakashi out of any genjutsu itachi has. All they have to do is flood chalkra into him, which every konoha ninja is capable of. So your arguement of "kakashi gets pwned by genjutsu!!!!" doesnt really work.

Naruto in SM makes him one of the fastest characters in all of naruto. Increases his strength, and increases the potency of all of his jutsus, as well as gives him access to FRS. So ya, it kinda is amazing bud.

LOL at sasori's flamethrower doing ANYTHING. Naruto in SM is way too fast for it, it wont even be a problem. Sasori's 100 puppets are all just fodder that can be taken out easily, they have shown no feats besides just charging at people with weapons. Iron sand is sasori's only real threat, which once again SM naruto could outspeed. And poison gas is stationary, and could be dodged by nearly any character.

Once again its not like the konoha ninja will just line up and take on itachi 1v1. Itachi will have to take on a giant amount of ninja alll at once. Which will buy time for naruto to go SM, in which case Itachi will lose.

GG

Naruto SM does not make him that fast, that is aload of BS, yes it makes him stronger and his jutsus have more potency but his speed is only slightly increased, you said before he beat pain and "blitzted" them. yeah he only did that when he got that from behind or when they were not looking and just because he beat deva it doesnt make him fast, because pain isnt really a "fast" character

Yori
04-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Um, Pra actually it do seeing how base Naruto wasen't that fast at all. Sage Mode increased his speed a lot making him SUPERSONIC at best. Do you know how fast that is

junchurikioftheleaf
04-10-2010, 04:33 PM
konoha would win cuz as soon as they met itachi would turn on sasori and kill him cuz he loves the village then he would join konoha again (this is a joke reply lol)

prasanth
04-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Um, Pra actually it do seeing how base Naruto wasen't that fast at all. Sage Mode increased his speed a lot making him SUPERSONIC at best. Do you know how fast that is

ok what speed feats does he have with sage mode, that is of considerable use against sasori and itachi who are very fast?

prasanth
04-10-2010, 04:41 PM
?????

SM Jiraiya's speed went way up, did it not?

not that much lol, he was still the same speed as pain and he isnt even a fast character

Daybreak
04-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Youu guys flat out dont get it. 1st blitzing someone is when you are able to move so fast that your opponent isnt able to keep up with you, and you destroy them. That is exactly what naruto did to pain. All of pains bodies, with the exception of animal due to smokescreen, saw naruto coming and still had time to react to him, but were not able to because naruto was just that fast.

For someone to actually claim that pain is not a fast character is just incredible to me, pain is one of the fastest characters in the series, ask anyone who actually knows what their talking about, they will agree with me. SO dont sit there and claim that pain isnt fast because he is, so because naruto was able to blitz several of his bodies and keep up with deva in general therefore he would also be able to dodge ammy and iron sand, and be able to speedblitz sasori and itachi.

Also you are completely underestimating the speed boost that SM gives to its user. Take either naruto or jirayia for example. Neither of them had great speed feats in base, but in SM they were able to keep pace with one of the fastest characters in all of naruto: pain. So actually yes, deny it all you want, SM gives a great deal of boost to speed. Get over it.

You guys have yet to give a valid arguement using feats. All your doing is saying that "ITACHI PWNSSS COS HES AWESOME AND NARUTO IS SLOW!!!!" well guess what this isnt a feat, plz give an arguement that shows why you think itachi or sasori could win.

Just for the sake of it ill repeat my arguement (again):
SM Naruto+Tsunade+Kakashi+Guy+Neji+Ten-Ten+Lee+Kurenai+Kiba+Shino+Hinata+Ino+shikamaru+Ch oji+Sakura+all the other countless ninja we've seen in Konoha but i cant name lol. All of these combined are just too much for Sasori and Itachi to handle. Sasori either gets speedblitzed, FRS, or Kamui'd to death. And then Itachi has to take on a myriad of ninja all at once. In which case his only chance of not dying is with susano'o, in which case he will eventually get chalkra drained and die. Konoha wins. GG

Kuromaki
04-10-2010, 05:30 PM
As for Sasori, we already saw Sakura with help kill him.
Thanks to plot.

But Sasori can be overwhelmed by the amount of ninja in the village, especially if he starts in Hiruko

J-Sun Tasogare
04-10-2010, 05:53 PM
SM Naruto can easily kill Sasori. All the while Kakashi and the rest of the leaf will hold or kill off Itachi. Let me put it this way

Konoha>Itachi
SM Naruto>Itachi
Konoha>Sasori
Sm Naruto>Sasori

Miles Edgeworth
04-10-2010, 07:06 PM
What kind of wank is going on here?

Konoha stomps.

Seriously, this is self-explanatory.

SM Naruto alone could solo with loads of boss summons, effective FRS use, etc. The people who say Naruto is "not fast" clearly underrate him because he is most definitely Supersonic, Sasori certainly isn't and Itachi isn't doing anything to FRS.

While SM Naruto is fighting them, Kakashi could set up Kamui.

On top of that, suppose Naruto's friends are getting killed and Naruto gets really mad. KN6 stomps Sasori and Itachi.

I don't see how Sasori and Itachi can defeat all of Konoha, Sasori isn't powerful enough to solo it and Itachi lacks the stamina necessary to come close.

JCTKNE4E
04-11-2010, 05:29 AM
*interjects

Who's to say Naruto wouldn't be one of the first Itachi would target with MS? Taking him out of the fight for good. Itachi knows very well what Naruto is capable of, and base Naruto has never had any defense against genjutsu, especially in every single encounter he's ever had with Itachi. Taking him out early, which would be most likely what would happen almost completely obliterates every argument made here. Unless the Leaf hid him behind something and threw themselves at waves of poison and MS spam until Naruto achieved SM, which I also think is unlikely. What would give Naruto and/or Kakashi that much prep time?

KN6 however, a very valid argument that i hadn't thought of, or probably even KN4 for that matter. Still, if Naruto is taken out sooner than all of you anticipate, what then?

prasanth
04-11-2010, 06:20 AM
Youu guys flat out dont get it. 1st blitzing someone is when you are able to move so fast that your opponent isnt able to keep up with you, and you destroy them. That is exactly what naruto did to pain. All of pains bodies, with the exception of animal due to smokescreen, saw naruto coming and still had time to react to him, but were not able to because naruto was just that fast.

For someone to actually claim that pain is not a fast character is just incredible to me, pain is one of the fastest characters in the series, ask anyone who actually knows what their talking about, they will agree with me. SO dont sit there and claim that pain isnt fast because he is, so because naruto was able to blitz several of his bodies and keep up with deva in general therefore he would also be able to dodge ammy and iron sand, and be able to speedblitz sasori and itachi.

Also you are completely underestimating the speed boost that SM gives to its user. Take either naruto or jirayia for example. Neither of them had great speed feats in base, but in SM they were able to keep pace with one of the fastest characters in all of naruto: pain. So actually yes, deny it all you want, SM gives a great deal of boost to speed. Get over it.

You guys have yet to give a valid arguement using feats. All your doing is saying that "ITACHI PWNSSS COS HES AWESOME AND NARUTO IS SLOW!!!!" well guess what this isnt a feat, plz give an arguement that shows why you think itachi or sasori could win.

Just for the sake of it ill repeat my arguement (again):
SM Naruto+Tsunade+Kakashi+Guy+Neji+Ten-Ten+Lee+Kurenai+Kiba+Shino+Hinata+Ino+shikamaru+Ch oji+Sakura+all the other countless ninja we've seen in Konoha but i cant name lol. All of these combined are just too much for Sasori and Itachi to handle. Sasori either gets speedblitzed, FRS, or Kamui'd to death. And then Itachi has to take on a myriad of ninja all at once. In which case his only chance of not dying is with susano'o, in which case he will eventually get chalkra drained and die. Konoha wins. GG

no naruto did not blitz any pain bidoes as i recall? the naraka path naruto attacked from above and noone saw him, asura naruto destroyed when it was trying to kill tsunade and agen it didnt see him coming, preta died because it absorbed too much sage chakra and animal was killed when it cudnt see where it was and only naruto and the toad knew. the human path was destroyed by the FRS which is narutos only fast attack and the deva was easy to kill as his powers werent working at the time.

and btw yes the leaf will overwhelm both sasori and itachi but i dont agree that naruto SM will be able to "blitz" sasori as SM doesnt give u a huge increase in speed, only a little. yes pain is fast but nowhere near one of the fastest, he just seems fast because with 6 bodies flying at you simultaneaousy it will be pretty hard to keep up with all of them.

prasanth
04-11-2010, 06:21 AM
Thanks to plot.

But Sasori can be overwhelmed by the amount of ninja in the village, especially if he starts in Hiruko

yes there are too many ninja to handle and the leaf wil win

prasanth
04-11-2010, 06:23 AM
SM Naruto can easily kill Sasori. All the while Kakashi and the rest of the leaf will hold or kill off Itachi. Let me put it this way

Konoha>Itachi
SM Naruto>Itachi
Konoha>Sasori
Sm Naruto>Sasori

konoha>itachi = yes
SM naruto>itachi = no
konoha>sasori = yes
SM naruto>sasori = no

prasanth
04-11-2010, 06:24 AM
What kind of wank is going on here?

Konoha stomps.

Seriously, this is self-explanatory.

SM Naruto alone could solo with loads of boss summons, effective FRS use, etc. The people who say Naruto is "not fast" clearly underrate him because he is most definitely Supersonic, Sasori certainly isn't and Itachi isn't doing anything to FRS.

While SM Naruto is fighting them, Kakashi could set up Kamui.

On top of that, suppose Naruto's friends are getting killed and Naruto gets really mad. KN6 stomps Sasori and Itachi.

I don't see how Sasori and Itachi can defeat all of Konoha, Sasori isn't powerful enough to solo it and Itachi lacks the stamina necessary to come close.

naruto cant solo, its too much to handle just sasori, but with summons he will win, but without the summons he wont win and yh KN6 stomps

Yori
04-11-2010, 08:31 AM
naruto cant solo, its too much to handle just sasori, but with summons he will win, but without the summons he wont win and yh KN6 stomps

KN6 chakra alone melts Sasori 100 puppets and Sasori him self since he is a puppet. Stomp!

JCTKNE4E
04-11-2010, 08:08 PM
Again, see my post above, who says base naruto would last long enough to go SM or KN6?

[Shikamaru]
04-11-2010, 08:12 PM
Itachi solos.

The puppets make the slaughter quicker.

Itachi can blitz base naruto in half a second, killing him instantly.

Same goes for base Jiraiya, Genjutsu would also roflstomp any konoha ninja.

321zigzag1
04-11-2010, 08:12 PM
This thread operates under the assumption that Itachi has the stamina to last against Konoha even with Sasori at once.

While assuming the fodders even anbu ones are useless.

Kakashi is useless.
Tsunade is useless.
Naruto is useless.
Yamato is useless.
Hiashi is useless.
The Rookie Nine is useless.

And of course no one mentioned Gai in this thread.

e710
04-11-2010, 08:16 PM
This thread operates under the assumption that Itachi has the stamina to last against Konoha even with Sasori at once.

While assuming the fodders even anbu ones are useless.

Kakashi is useless.
Tsunade is useless.
Naruto is useless.
Yamato is useless.
Hiashi is useless.
The Rookie Nine is useless.

And of course no one mentioned Gai in this thread.

Your not serious are you? Tsunade, Yamato and Kakashi take care of Sasori.
Then Itachi passed out from 1tsykumai 1ammy and susano' and a couple of genjutsus while fighting Sasuke, actually no he died he didn't pass out. So Itachi gets screwed by himself.

JCTKNE4E
04-11-2010, 08:16 PM
One person mentioned gai with gates, which would pose sort of a problem, with incredible speed and training against sharingan uses, but that was a few pages back, and he alone wouldn't be the turning point.

[Shikamaru]
04-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Itachi doesn't need MS Genjutsu or Ammy.

With pure speed feats alone, Itachi can wipe nearly everyone out with a small blade.

Nobody has the ninjutsu to stop him, Jiraiya is dead..

321zigzag1
04-11-2010, 08:23 PM
Your not serious are you? Tsunade, Yamato and Kakashi take care of Sasori.
Then Itachi passed out from 1tsykumai 1ammy and susano' and a couple of genjutsus while fighting Sasuke, actually no he died he didn't pass out. So Itachi gets screwed by himself.

Please reread my post I said this thread operated under the assumption of such.

One person mentioned gai with gates, which would pose sort of a problem, with incredible speed and training against sharingan uses, but that was a few pages back, and he alone wouldn't be the turning point.

Again everyone is so useless that Itachi just simply stream rolls everyone himself?

Blind Uchiha
04-11-2010, 08:24 PM
;2886708']Itachi solos.

The puppets make the slaughter quicker.

Itachi can blitz base naruto in half a second, killing him instantly.

Same goes for base Jiraiya, Genjutsu would also roflstomp any konoha ninja.

Fodder shinobi attacking Itachi and Sasori buy Naruto enough time to SM. Additionally, since when has Itachi had the stamina required to solo all of konoha? He couldn't maintain Susano'o for more than five minutes.

e710
04-11-2010, 08:25 PM
;2886783']Itachi doesn't need MS Genjutsu or Ammy.

With pure speed feats alone, Itachi can wipe nearly everyone out with a small blade.

Nobody has the ninjutsu to stop him, Jiraiya is dead..

Itachi without MS, Guy and Kakashi can handle him.

321zigzag1
04-11-2010, 08:27 PM
Again this thread assumes that Itachi has the stamina to solo Konoha.

Please do not compare Itachi to Pain.

Pain has immense chakra. He is suited to fight several opponents due to shared vision and bodies. He has 3 huge nuke jutsus.

Itachi is suited for one on one or few people. He is smaller range.
Granted he will kill many and vast numbers but its his stamina that restricts him.
Not to mention Susanoo absorbs his lifeforce and he can only use Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu limited wise.

Being healthy doesn't suddenly grant you 10x more chakra.

[Shikamaru]
04-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Itachi without MS, Guy and Kakashi can handle him.
Guy and Kakashi?

30% Itachi dodged a direct blitz from MS Kakashi.

Kakashi > Guy

That's like saying Guy and Kakashi can handle Hebi Sasuke.

Which is a fail.

Blind Uchiha
04-11-2010, 08:33 PM
Assuming Itachi does have the stamina to attack the entire village, how does he counter FRS or Kamui?

Sasori may have one fodder puppets, but Konoha has hundreds of fodder shinobi. Hundreds of Fodder shinobi>>>>one hundred fodder puppets.

321zigzag1
04-11-2010, 08:33 PM
;2886837']Guy and Kakashi?

30% Itachi dodged a direct blitz from MS Kakashi.

Kakashi > Guy

That's like saying Guy and Kakashi can handle Hebi Sasuke.

Which is a fail.

Which was a while ago.

Kakashi was able to react Susanoo's arrow which is much faster than Sasuke's top tier speed.

Granted it was linear speed but managed to in time for MS.

So he should be able to react to Sasuke. And Gai its more of his gates thats the problem.

And also Kakashi managed to trick 30% clone Itachi anyhow.

e710
04-11-2010, 09:19 PM
;2886837']Guy and Kakashi?

30% Itachi dodged a direct blitz from MS Kakashi.

Kakashi > Guy

That's like saying Guy and Kakashi can handle Hebi Sasuke.

Which is a fail.

Kakahi holds off Itachi until Guy goes gates. Then Guy overwhelms Itachi and Kakahi finishes with Chidori. As you said this would happen without MS powers for Itachi.