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View Full Version : Madara lacks one thing, and it makes him a better villian


Wing Zero
02-13-2010, 10:54 AM
Arrogance. Madara is patient. I've noticed that he doesn't underestimate his enemies. He's evil, ruthless, and a liar. But I think he's such a great villian because he doesn't fall into the "no one can defeat me, I am invincible" sterotype.

It's very refreshing.

senji
02-13-2010, 10:57 AM
No i bealive that Madara is perfect as he is he doesn't need anything.

Tobi Madara
02-13-2010, 10:58 AM
No i bealive that Madara is perfect as he is he doesn't need anything.

Of course he doesn't need it. He just said it makes him a better villain without it.

Wing Zero
02-13-2010, 11:12 AM
One thing I've noticed too, Madara is constantly trying to impart his traits on to Sasuke, and Sasuke is having NONE of it. I believe no matter how powerful Sasuke has become, his arrogance will be his down fall.

Wooster
02-13-2010, 11:20 AM
Arrogance. Madara is patient. I've noticed that he doesn't underestimate his enemies. He's evil, ruthless, and a liar. But I think he's such a great villian because he doesn't fall into the "no one can defeat me, I am invincible" sterotype.

It's very refreshing.
Actually ,it wasn't always true. Madara did attack the first Hokage. Experience has taught Madara to be patient.

senji
02-13-2010, 11:21 AM
Actually ,it wasn't always true. Madara did attack the first Hokage. Experience has taught Madara to be patient.


Totally right.

Parak111
02-13-2010, 11:53 AM
I agree with this. Unlike Sasuke, he doesn't self-delude himself how "powerful" and "invincible" he is. Sasuke thinks of himself that he's the most powerful ninja in the whole world, but he doesn't know how wrong he is.

Hidden Ninja45
02-13-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah, that definately makes Madara an awesome villian. Since he has EMS and can supposedly live forever, he can afford to be patient. And since Sasuke is only 16 or 17 at this point, Madara has pletty of time to do whatever it is he plans to do with Sasuke.

mrsticky005
02-13-2010, 02:31 PM
Arrogance. Madara is patient. I've noticed that he doesn't underestimate his enemies. He's evil, ruthless, and a liar. But I think he's such a great villian because he doesn't fall into the "no one can defeat me, I am invincible" sterotype.

It's very refreshing.


Just cause Madara tells Sasuke he needs to be patient doesn't mean he is.

Madara is arrogant and he's not so patient. He said "I want to hurry up the Moon Eye Plan" and even told his plan to the Kages. That's arrogance.

Madara is telling Sasuke not to use up his eyes because he eventually
wants Sasuke's eyes for himself. I think Madara originally intended
to take Itachi's eyes but decided against it because Itachi purposely
wasted his so that the last of his power would be given to Sasuke.

Zeek Uchiha
02-13-2010, 02:57 PM
well he is patient but come on waiting all these years to make plans go in affect

Tobi Madara
02-13-2010, 03:03 PM
well he is patient but come on waiting all these years to make plans go in affect

If that's what it takes

C4 Karura
02-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Hmm... I hadn't noticed this before, but you're totally right! Rep Up!

Wooster
02-13-2010, 03:18 PM
You know Madara was really impatient when he had Pain attack Konoha because of that he lost his most useful member. Madara didn't know anything about Naruto until after Naruto changed Nagato's mind. Actually, Madara has been involved in so many things, Nine tails attack, Uchiha massacre, Akatsuki, controlling Mizukage, revealing himself to everyone, he's not patient he's a glory hog.

Now Danzo, there's a patient man.

kokojojo
02-13-2010, 03:23 PM
yea the only reason he didnt attack konoha sooner was because itachi wud've had him poopin his pants. but he does have some patience tho, since he cud've just kidnapped naruto when he was trying to keep naruto n friends away from sasuke and itachi. on top of that he's been hiding for a really long time letting everyone assume he's dead, u kno if u were in his spot u'd be itching just to make a scene to make people talk about u

KARINISSOSEXY
02-13-2010, 05:11 PM
I agree with this. Unlike Sasuke, he doesn't self-delude himself how "powerful" and "invincible" he is. Sasuke thinks of himself that he's the most powerful ninja in the whole world, but he doesn't know how wrong he is.
I dont think he thanks that, I just think he doesnt put any thought into how underpowered he is compared to some.

kokojojo
02-13-2010, 05:15 PM
isnt naruto like that too?

*Talim of the moonlight*
02-13-2010, 05:20 PM
Actually ,it wasn't always true. Madara did attack the first Hokage. Experience has taught Madara to be patient.
Yeah i think the same thing too!

mrsticky005
02-13-2010, 05:25 PM
You know Madara was really impatient when he had Pain attack Konoha because of that he lost his most useful member. Madara didn't know anything about Naruto until after Naruto changed Nagato's mind. Actually, Madara has been involved in so many things, Nine tails attack, Uchiha massacre, Akatsuki, controlling Mizukage, revealing himself to everyone, he's not patient he's a glory hog.

Now Danzo, there's a patient man.

Agreed. Danzo is patient. But in the "I'm just waiting for the right moment to kill you" type patient. It's a shame he had to die. The whole Sasuke vs Danzo fight felt forced. Now I'm not saying it was a bad fight because I think it was actually pretty good (who cares if it has random power ups? They're magical ninjas after all). Actually the fights themselves have all been good what bothers me is they all feel like they've been forced.

Danzo's patience can be seen when he tells The Foundation not to
do anything to Naruto just yet as the people of Konoha see him
as a hero when they wanted to capture him as soon as possible.

Wooster
02-13-2010, 05:32 PM
Agreed. Danzo is patient. But in the "I'm just waiting for the right moment to kill you" type patient. It's a shame he had to die. The whole Sasuke vs Danzo fight felt forced. Now I'm not saying it was a bad fight because I think it was actually pretty good (who cares if it has random power ups? They're magical ninjas after all). Actually the fights themselves have all been good what bothers me is they all feel like they've been forced.

Danzo's patience can be seen when he tells The Foundation not to
do anything to Naruto just yet as the people of Konoha see him
as a hero when they wanted to capture him as soon as possible.
A man has to be patient if he spends all the time lurking in holes.

I agree the Danzo v. Sasuke battle was pretty good and powerups while unexpected had severe limits. When it comes down to it, Izanagi is actually less useful than Madara's ghosting abilities.

I also agree battles have seemed forced recently. I wonder if Kishimoto is thinking: " Ah, screw it! I'm wrapping up this Naruto manga."

mrsticky005
02-13-2010, 05:47 PM
A man has to be patient if he spends all the time lurking in holes.

I agree the Danzo v. Sasuke battle was pretty good and powerups while unexpected had severe limits. When it comes down to it, Izanagi is actually less useful than Madara's ghosting abilities.

I also agree battles have seemed forced recently. I wonder if Kishimoto is thinking: " Ah, screw it! I'm wrapping up this Naruto manga."

The Killer Bee fight made sense. But the whole Kage vs Sasuke fight not so much. It was like

Kishimoto: Check it out. Sasuke will try and destroy Konoha!
Fan: But Pain already did
Kishimoto: Dang...well uh...He's going to fight the uh hm KAGES! Yeah!
Fan: Isn't this manga called Naruto? Why not more of him instead?
Kishimoto: My box of crayolas ran out of orange. I need to buy more.

deidara330
02-13-2010, 05:59 PM
I agree. Madara doesn't seem to have the type of personality where he acts like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get what he wants. He's a very calm person, despite all of the chaos that he's caused. However, he isn't always right. He overestimated Sasuke's power when he sent Sasuke to attack the five Kages, and he underestimated Naruto's potential for growth. He's waited too long to go after Naruto, and because of that Naruto has now obtained the power to defeat even some of the strongest Akatsuki members. With the help of a few additional ninja, he could possibly defeat Madara himself. However, it was because of Itachi that Madara couldn't capture Naruto. If Itachi was such a hinderence in Naruto's capture, Madara should've either sent Itachi against a strong Jinchuriki which would kill him, or eliminated Itachi himself. Itachi never played any important role in capturing Jinchuriki, so it seems to me that he was a disposable member. Madara can wait, but sometimes waiting isn't the best option.

KARINISSOSEXY
02-13-2010, 06:28 PM
I agree. Madara doesn't seem to have the type of personality where he acts like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get what he wants. He's a very calm person, despite all of the chaos that he's caused. However, he isn't always right. He overestimated Sasuke's power when he sent Sasuke to attack the five Kages, and he underestimated Naruto's potential for growth. He's waited too long to go after Naruto, and because of that Naruto has now obtained the power to defeat even some of the strongest Akatsuki members. With the help of a few additional ninja, he could possibly defeat Madara himself. However, it was because of Itachi that Madara couldn't capture Naruto. If Itachi was such a hinderence in Naruto's capture, Madara should've either sent Itachi against a strong Jinchuriki which would kill him, or eliminated Itachi himself. Itachi never played any important role in capturing Jinchuriki, so it seems to me that he was a disposable member. Madara can wait, but sometimes waiting isn't the best option.
.Your forgetting that Madara knew itachi in and out, and knew that his role in Akatsuki wasnt a helpful one. He must have a bigger plan, or else he wouldve done somthing with itachi.

deidara330
02-13-2010, 06:30 PM
.Your forgetting that Madara knew itachi in and out, and knew that his role in Akatsuki wasnt a helpful one. He must have a bigger plan, or else he wouldve done somthing with itachi.My guess is, he allowed Itachi to live so that Sasuke could defeat him. If Madara had tried to explain the truth about the Uchiha massacre to Sasuke before the fight took place, Sasuke would likely never believe him, and even if he did, he might not have joined the Akatsuki. I think that that's why he kept Itachi alive. That, and the fact that he didn't have to kill Itachi when Sasuke would do it for him.

Wooster
02-13-2010, 06:34 PM
I agree. Madara doesn't seem to have the type of personality where he acts like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get what he wants. He's a very calm person, despite all of the chaos that he's caused. However, he isn't always right. He overestimated Sasuke's power when he sent Sasuke to attack the five Kages, and he underestimated Naruto's potential for growth. He's waited too long to go after Naruto, and because of that Naruto has now obtained the power to defeat even some of the strongest Akatsuki members. With the help of a few additional ninja, he could possibly defeat Madara himself. However, it was because of Itachi that Madara couldn't capture Naruto. If Itachi was such a hinderence in Naruto's capture, Madara should've either sent Itachi against a strong Jinchuriki which would kill him, or eliminated Itachi himself. Itachi never played any important role in capturing Jinchuriki, so it seems to me that he was a disposable member. Madara can wait, but sometimes waiting isn't the best option.
Spoiled Brat may be a bit extreme, but Madara's animosity against the Uchiha is essentially only because they wouldn't follow him against the Senju. For this, he blackmailed Itachi to kill them all a few decades later. Not to mention his fight against the First was pretty much just indignation at not being the leader.

I don't think he always right otherwise the Pain invasion would have gone better for him. What Madara does have are backup plans.

[Shikamaru]
02-13-2010, 06:35 PM
I actually wouldn't call him a villian.

More of a man with a dream, after all, every man has different morals.

And If I stood by and watched my own clan betray me, I wouldn't be so much of a goody-too shoes either.

deidara330
02-13-2010, 06:37 PM
Spoiled Brat may be a bit extreme, but Madara animosity against the Uchiha is essentially only because they wouldn't follow him against the Senju. For this, he blackmailed Itachi to kill them all a few decades later. Not to mention his fight against the First was pretty much just indignation at not being the leader.

I don't think he always right otherwise the Pain invasion would have gone better for him. What Madara does have are backup plans.I wasn't talking at all about how he was in the past, only now. And he never blackmailed Itachi into killing them. It was, after all, Danzo who gave the order to kill the Uchiha.

I never said he was always right. Did you read my post correctly? You seem to be contradicting me and agreeing with me at the same time.

Wooster
02-13-2010, 06:40 PM
I wasn't talking at all about how he was in the past, only now. And he never blackmailed Itachi into killing them. It was, after all, Danzo who gave the order to kill the Uchiha.

I never said he was always right. Did you read my post correctly? You seem to be contradicting me and agreeing with me at the same time.
Ah, yes Madara did. He promised not to attack Konoha if Itachi massacred the Uchiha, at least that's what Madara told Sasuke. That's not to say Itachi wasn't already doing it for Danzo.

That's because I'm agreeing with you there.

Also, yes he is different than in his "youth." I imagine his defeats to the First did that.

deidara330
02-13-2010, 06:50 PM
Ah, yes Madara did. He promised not to attack Konoha if Itachi massacred the Uchiha, at least that's what Madara told Sasuke. That's not to say Itachi wasn't already doing it for Danzo.

Madara promised not to attack Konoha if Itachi allowed him to help. It had nothing to do with Itachi attacking the clan directly. Also, Itachi made the original proposal, so Madara never blackmailed him.

That's because I'm agreeing with you there.

Also, yes he is different than in his "youth." I imagine his defeats to the First did that.I suppose so.

Wooster
02-13-2010, 06:56 PM
Madara promised not to attack Konoha if Itachi allowed him to help. It had nothing to do with Itachi attacking the clan directly. Also, Itachi made the original proposal, so Madara never blackmailed him.

I suppose so.
Well, whatever the case, Madara wanted to attack both Konoha and the Uchiha, Itachi offered one if the other was protected. Madara did say it was his revenge, even if he didn't propose the plan. I also find it hard to believe Madara didn't cause the Nine-Tailed Fox attack so as to bring suspicion on the Uchiha clan.

Wing Zero
02-13-2010, 06:58 PM
You know Madara was really impatient when he had Pain attack Konoha because of that he lost his most useful member. Madara didn't know anything about Naruto until after Naruto changed Nagato's mind. Actually, Madara has been involved in so many things, Nine tails attack, Uchiha massacre, Akatsuki, controlling Mizukage, revealing himself to everyone, he's not patient he's a glory hog.

Now Danzo, there's a patient man.

Was he? Naruto had thrown a wrench into his plans when Hidan and Kakazu were killed. Akatsuki had started losing members to Konoha and Sasuke when he started moving up his plans. People knew the Akatsuki were on the move, and he had to rev things up. Taking on the outcast tailed beast hosts were one thing, but Gaara, Naruto, and the eight tales host were on some level accepted by their village. The Akatsuki were out in the open at that point.

About the First Hokage, he knew how powerful he was. Madara has said he admired the First for his strength and hated him for it. This is not DBZ where you just "know" the other guys "power level." Sure, you get a feel for how strong someone is from their chakra, but a skillful ninja with good technique can defeat a stronger one. Sometimes the only way to know how strong someone really is is to take them on in a fight.

The Shady Ninja
02-13-2010, 07:17 PM
Okay, I agree with this. I never would've thought he was a villain if I didn't read the series, because he is not arrogant at all, and it DOES make him a better villain.

SasukeFallen
02-13-2010, 09:06 PM
I think the fact that he lacks that arogance is what makes him terrifying. Reason being, almost every other villain out there is has that quality, it's the common ground, and its always plays a part in there downfall to some degree, so to a ceratin extent, you can't really take the 100% sereously. But, without that there(plus all the abilities stacked on his side), it makes it hard to imagine what his undoing would be, or if it could even happen.

Most other vilians, the one's with god complexes(even if it's only to a certain degree), you can see how they'd fall, they'd over estimate there abilities at a most piviotal moment and it becomes there undoing. I can't see Madara doing that. He has an air of calm in him, he doesn't seem the type to ever get heated in battle because he was self assure and level headed. That combined with all the wisdom of the years(and his abilitys), and experiance, I can not envision his undoing, atleast one that wouldn't be out of character.

He's got all the qualitys of a real, psychotic killer, who can kill and not get killled. He seems to have all of the power and none of the qualities that would indicate any sort of character flaw, weakness that could be used to bring him down. How will any of them realistically begin to fight someone like that?

Or, you know Kishi could totally waste all amazingness of him original Villian, and come up with some lame a** excuse at the last minute that make no sense at all, just for the sake of good comming out on top and a happy ending. I will be satisfied to see a character like Madara fall only if it's slowly developed through out the time it takes to get to the actual 'final' battle, but if it's sort of random in the middle of the final fight, I think I'll push Kishi so he will fall in a hole.

Wow, kind of a rant, sorry XD Point it, IMO, Madara is basically one of the developed, original villians i've seen in a long time(If ever). Though I do admit, When new things are randomly though up and revealed about Madara that had no foreshadowing beforw hand, I get just as anoyed as when it happens with anything else in this manga.

Wing Zero
02-13-2010, 09:45 PM
I think the fact that he lacks that arogance is what makes him terrifying. Reason being, almost every other villain out there is has that quality, it's the common ground, and its always plays a part in there downfall to some degree, so to a ceratin extent, you can't really take the 100% sereously. But, without that there(plus all the abilities stacked on his side), it makes it hard to imagine what his undoing would be, or if it could even happen.

Most other vilians, the one's with god complexes(even if it's only to a certain degree), you can see how they'd fall, they'd over estimate there abilities at a most piviotal moment and it becomes there undoing. I can't see Madara doing that. He has an air of calm in him, he doesn't seem the type to ever get heated in battle because he was self assure and level headed. That combined with all the wisdom of the years(and his abilitys), and experiance, I can not envision his undoing, atleast one that wouldn't be out of character.

He's got all the qualitys of a real, psychotic killer, who can kill and not get killled. He seems to have all of the power and none of the qualities that would indicate any sort of character flaw, weakness that could be used to bring him down. How will any of them realistically begin to fight someone like that?

Or, you know Kishi could totally waste all amazingness of him original Villian, and come up with some lame a** excuse at the last minute that make no sense at all, just for the sake of good comming out on top and a happy ending. I will be satisfied to see a character like Madara fall only if it's slowly developed through out the time it takes to get to the actual 'final' battle, but if it's sort of random in the middle of the final fight, I think I'll push Kishi so he will fall in a hole.

Wow, kind of a rant, sorry XD Point it, IMO, Madara is basically one of the developed, original villians i've seen in a long time(If ever). Though I do admit, When new things are randomly though up and revealed about Madara that had no foreshadowing beforw hand, I get just as anoyed as when it happens with anything else in this manga.


Wow, you kinda went further in depth than I did. Awesomeness!.

Just Me And My Shadow
02-13-2010, 10:52 PM
'Course not. Dude lost an arm to a very minor character.

senji
02-13-2010, 11:18 PM
madara is perfect

mrsticky005
02-13-2010, 11:36 PM
'Course not. Dude lost an arm to a very minor character.

Does any one find it sad and pathetic how two guys who showed up about 20 chapters ago have done more to advance the storyline and plot than
Team 7 has recently? Well actually I'm just exaggerating but when they
focused on Team Danzo, the plot was getting good again.

senji
02-13-2010, 11:47 PM
I THink madara should take of his mask and show his old face

mrsticky005
02-14-2010, 12:40 AM
I THink madara should take of his mask and show his old face


Madara reveals his mask to show....


AN EYEPATCH!? WHAT THE (BEEP)!?

TheSeventhSwordman
02-14-2010, 12:55 AM
Just cause Madara tells Sasuke he needs to be patient doesn't mean he is.

Madara is arrogant and he's not so patient. He said "I want to hurry up the Moon Eye Plan" and even told his plan to the Kages. That's arrogance.

Madara is telling Sasuke not to use up his eyes because he eventually
wants Sasuke's eyes for himself. I think Madara originally intended
to take Itachi's eyes but decided against it because Itachi purposely
wasted his so that the last of his power would be given to Sasuke.
I believe that was mere confidence not arrogance,when his recent pain plan failed he had to move everything up a notch in speed because pein was supposed to take care of the villages for a while, especially konoha, so with the summit of the 5 kages they would have retaliated extremely hard so he had to make a strike before they could act, and by explaining his plan to the kages he instilled fear in them. His plan on getting the remaining jinchuriki for the moon's eye was in effect already known, the kages already had their jinchuriki under protection as best theey could because they already knew he was after the jinchuriki, explaining only told them what he was going to do with them and gave them fear by knowing what could go wrong. SO in effect there was nothing arrogant about it.

About the "sasuke's eyes"thing i think you are correct but he also wanted sasuke to preserve his eyes because he is one of the only remaining people madara has at his command. And i dont see where you are getting because taking sasuke's eyes are neither arrogant or impatient, only smart. Any comments people? agreements?counter-arguments? :mrgreen:

mrsticky005
02-14-2010, 01:13 AM
I believe that was mere confidence not arrogance,when his recent pain plan failed he had to move everything up a notch in speed because pein was supposed to take care of the villages for a while, especially konoha, so with the summit of the 5 kages they would have retaliated extremely hard so he had to make a strike before they could act, and by explaining his plan to the kages he instilled fear in them. His plan on getting the remaining jinchuriki for the moon's eye was in effect already known, the kages already had their jinchuriki under protection as best theey could because they already knew he was after the jinchuriki, explaining only told them what he was going to do with them and gave them fear by knowing what could go wrong. SO in effect there was nothing arrogant about it.

About the "sasuke's eyes"thing i think you are correct but he also wanted sasuke to preserve his eyes because he is one of the only remaining people madara has at his command. And i dont see where you are getting because taking sasuke's eyes are neither arrogant or impatient, only smart. Any comments people? agreements?counter-arguments? :mrgreen:


Madara is a war lord thorough and through. The way he presents himself what he has said about himself and his actions show he is someone
who loves to be in the spotlight (though he will act behind the scenes.)

Madara doesn't act patient because he wants to.
He does it because he has to.

Wooster
02-14-2010, 05:27 AM
Madara reveals his mask to show....


AN EYEPATCH!? WHAT THE (BEEP)!?
Maybe he just got a new nose job.

Madara in the hospital after the battle with the First Hokage:

Doctor: "Okay Madara we are going to remove the mask now that your face has healed."

Nurse:*screams*"Oh, he's hideous."

Doctor:*Gasps*

We see Madara's face of a young handsome man.

Then the doctors and nurses remove their masks to reveal...the faces of pigs.

Fade to black.

mrsticky005
02-14-2010, 06:24 AM
Maybe he just got a new nose job.

Madara in the hospital after the battle with the First Hokage:

Doctor: "Okay Madara we are going to remove the mask now that your face has healed."

Nurse:*screams*"Oh, he's hideous."

Doctor:*Gasps*

We see Madara's face of a young handsome man.

Then the doctors and nurses remove their masks to reveal...the faces of pigs.

Fade to black.

The Pigs symbolize the Bay of Pigs Invasion and Madara represents
the evils of Politics and Juicy Juice is 1000% for 10% kids. I think.

Wooster
02-14-2010, 10:42 AM
The Pigs symbolize the Bay of Pigs Invasion and Madara represents
the evils of Politics and Juicy Juice is 1000% for 10% kids. I think.
I thought it had something to do with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

But that never made sense because Beholders are nasty. What would they know about beauty?

Thank's for clearly that up.

J-Sun Tasogare
02-14-2010, 12:55 PM
Plus he doesnt think he did it all by himself he thanks all the other members

JC.
02-14-2010, 01:02 PM
Yeah, that definately makes Madara an awesome villian. Since he has EMS and can supposedly live forever, he can afford to be patient. And since Sasuke is only 16 or 17 at this point, Madara has pletty of time to do whatever it is he plans to do with Sasuke.

What's EMS? Isn't it that form of shipping I use when I buy stuff from Japan?

And I agree with the title. He's awesome!

Wing Zero
02-14-2010, 05:31 PM
'Course not. Dude lost an arm to a very minor character.

I blame Kishi for that. Besides, I think Madara would have some ability... no, method to replace a lost arm.

mrsticky005
02-14-2010, 09:00 PM
I blame Kishi for that. Besides, I think Madara would have some ability... no, method to replace a lost arm.

Personally I think it was AWESOME that a guy that comes from out of nowhere can do damage to the Big Bad. It's annoying when minor
characters get thrown around. (Konoha Jonin vs Sound Four was a joke. I mean the Sound Four got beaten by Genin. Why do the Jonin not named
Kakashi have to suck?)

Wooster
02-15-2010, 07:19 AM
'Course not. Dude lost an arm to a very minor character.
Hey, Shadow Man I didn't even see this point before. Yeah, talk about impatience.


Personally I think it was AWESOME that a guy that comes from out of nowhere can do damage to the Big Bad. It's annoying when minor
characters get thrown around. (Konoha Jonin vs Sound Four was a joke. I mean the Sound Four got beaten by Genin. Why do the Jonin not named
Kakashi have to suck?)

At least the Foundation seems to have good ninja. I guess Danzo is right, his method of leadership is better. I mean the ANBU couldn't do squat to the Sound Four, and they must be significanlty less powerful than Madara. Yeah and those Jonin were quite pathetic. Are Kakashi and Guy the only useful ninja Konoha has left, excluding all the youngins.

tyler
02-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Hey, Shadow Man I didn't even see this point before. Yeah, talk about impatience.

At least the Foundation seems to have good ninja. I guess Danzo is right, his method of leadership is better. I mean the ANBU couldn't do squat to the Sound Four, and they must be significanlty less powerful than Madara. Yeah and those Jonin were quite pathetic. Are Kakashi and Guy the only useful ninja Konoha has left, excluding all the youngins.


I think the point is to show not how weak the Jounin of Konoha are, but how powerful the Genin were.

Wing Zero
02-15-2010, 01:24 PM
I think the point is to show not how weak the Jounin of Konoha are, but how powerful the Genin were.


True. Sasuke was a talented member of the Uchia clan (I still think he's not as strong as his brother was at his age) and Naruto was the container for the Nine Tails.

As for Team Guy, Negi was a genious, and Lee was the master of focus and dedication. Ten Ten was no slouch, but very over shadowed by the other two.

Team Asuma had Shikamaru. While not the strongest ninja, his raw intellect probably saved his team during the trials. We see how well his fights went during the last end of the chunin exams.

Kurini's students: Kiba and Shino are tallented ninja, Shino being the most intelligent of the three.

Again: The sound ninja during the exams exibited the classic "overconfidence" I stated Madara did not have. They sort of make my point. Besides, Oruchimaru had several subordinates he fed lies to hinting they might be his "favorite." They likely had all been treated that way.

Wooster
02-15-2010, 04:47 PM
I think the point is to show not how weak the Jounin of Konoha are, but how powerful the Genin were.
Yes that was intended intent. The unintended consquence was that genin, who failed the chunin exam, looked stronger than jonin that are supposed to be much better.

kekki genki
02-15-2010, 06:36 PM
yea madara isnt arrogant at all he even said he's a shell of himself. he's mad smart tho he gets all these powerful people to do his work for him

kejon16
02-15-2010, 11:36 PM
Yeah i think your right i think he is a great villian one of the best i've ever seen really and i kinda like him hes a cool guy i dont see why people hate him so much

mrsticky005
02-16-2010, 05:24 AM
Yes that was intended intent. The unintended consquence was that genin, who failed the chunin exam, looked stronger than jonin that are supposed to be much better.

Well at least the Jonin were fighting all of the Sound Four at once
rather than when the Genin fought one on one.

So pretty much it's just the villains becoming stupid again.

At least when Pain fought Naruto, Naruto had to fight ALL of the Pains
despite it making everyone who fought Pain look like a total wuss.

Wooster
02-16-2010, 06:16 AM
Well at least the Jonin were fighting all of the Sound Four at once
rather than when the Genin fought one on one.

So pretty much it's just the villains becoming stupid again.

At least when Pain fought Naruto, Naruto had to fight ALL of the Pains
despite it making everyone who fought Pain look like a total wuss.
Well except Jaraiya. He had to fight them without knowing their abilities.

Rurouni KJS
02-17-2010, 09:30 AM
Yes that was intended intent. The unintended consquence was that genin, who failed the chunin exam, looked stronger than jonin that are supposed to be much better.

The jonin softened up the Sound Four, though, forcing all four into using their curse marks (and do I recall them even mentioning going to 2nd state? Not sure*). The villains were pretty worked, comparatively by the time they faced the pursuit squad, and that was only against two Konoha jonin (who were themselves not quite fresh, returning from another mission IIRC).

EDIT: just checked. The jonin were exhausted from another mission, and they did force the Four into their 2nd State.

Wing Zero
02-20-2010, 08:25 PM
Well at least the Jonin were fighting all of the Sound Four at once
rather than when the Genin fought one on one.

So pretty much it's just the villains becoming stupid again.

At least when Pain fought Naruto, Naruto had to fight ALL of the Pains
despite it making everyone who fought Pain look like a total wuss.


Um, Naruto had 6 frogs with him in the fight. He did get some help.

valtreck
02-21-2010, 08:47 AM
Actually ,it wasn't always true. Madara did attack the first Hokage. Experience has taught Madara to be patient.
yup! that's right