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View Full Version : Orochimaru vs. Kisame


SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:03 PM
No water dome. No chakra absorption. No boss summons. Hydra counts as a boss summon. Go.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 06:04 PM
Why did you take away Water Dome and Chakra Absorption?

Orochimaru pretty much is guaranteed to win this.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Why did you take away Water Dome and Chakra Absorption?

Orochimaru pretty much is guaranteed to win this.
Water Dome drowns him. Chakra absorption owns almost all of his attacks. I did forget to take away boss summons, though. Other than that, I fail to see Oro winning this one with ease.

AnBu.KnighT
02-12-2010, 06:09 PM
well still Kisame sword with out obsorbtion can stomp oro, but idk? Oro snake summonign can be hard to take on.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Orochimaru > Base Kisame.

Actually Orochimaru prefers snakes and kusanagi which is different from standard chakra energy elemental attacks. Yes they have chakra but you know what I mean?

Kisame is strong enough to hold off Orochimaru but his best method to kill Orochimaru is in Water Dome.

Its really sad though Kisame should have shown a lot more.
I mean Hidan, Deidara, Kakuzu, Sasori and even Orochimaru did.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:26 PM
Orochimaru > Base Kisame.

Actually Orochimaru prefers snakes and kusanagi which is different from standard chakra energy elemental attacks. Yes they have chakra but you know what I mean?

Kisame is strong enough to hold off Orochimaru but his best method to kill Orochimaru is in Water Dome.

Its really sad though Kisame should have shown a lot more.
I mean Hidan, Deidara, Kakuzu, Sasori and even Orochimaru did.
I know. He really had a lot more potential. My friend actually has a decent theory as to how he could come back, though. However, that's not BG material.

How is Orochimaru so much better than Kisame? If Kisame spits out a lake he has a massive advantage. If he goes shark mode he can own Orochimaru as long as he stays underwater. Shark Bombs spam could easily counter snake attacks. Both have pretty insane tanking abilities as well. I still fail to see how Kisame can't hold his own against Orochimaru here. I'm not say Oro loses, but just that you'll have to give me a better reason than "He's better".

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 06:30 PM
I know. He really had a lot more potential. My friend actually has a decent theory as to how he could come back, though. However, that's not BG material.

How is Orochimaru so much better than Kisame? If Kisame spits out a lake he has a massive advantage. If he goes shark mode he can own Orochimaru as long as he stays underwater. Shark Bombs spam could easily counter snake attacks. Both have pretty insane tanking abilities as well. I still fail to see how Kisame can't hold his own against Orochimaru here. I'm not say Oro loses, but just that you'll have to give me a better reason than "He's better".

Base Kisame doesn't equal Kisamehada with Water Dome. Thats his trump card and stronger form.

Base Kisame I am referring to here.

Base Kisame cannot deal with hydra or manda effectively hence the main problem and oro likes to do kusanagi.

You can tell me the theory through Pm if you wish.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:37 PM
Base Kisame doesn't equal Kisamehada with Water Dome. Thats his trump card and stronger form.

Base Kisame I am referring to here.

Base Kisame cannot deal with hydra or manda effectively hence the main problem and oro likes to do kusanagi.

You can tell me the theory through Pm if you wish.
True.

I know.

I said no boss summons in the OP.

Ok.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 06:42 PM
I said no boss summons in the OP

You edited within the minute I see.

Well Oro can still summon just not Manda though right?

Also there is the whole Kusanagi factor.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:45 PM
You edited within the minute I see.

Well Oro can still summon just not Manda though right?

Also there is the whole Kusanagi factor.
Yeah, I guess he can summon. But what? Hydra is classified as a boss summon. What else does he have?

Samehada counters Kusanagi pretty easily from what we've seen. I'd say they're equally matched in terms of weaponry.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 06:48 PM
Hydra is a ninjutsu.

Kusanagi can cut through Samehada.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 06:58 PM
Hydra is a ninjutsu.

Kusanagi can cut through Samehada.
As of when? From what I saw in the manga those were giant snakes Orochimaru summoned.

Proof?

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Databook lists them as ninjutsu which makes sense actually.

Kusanagi can cut through almost anything from part 1?

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:07 PM
Databook lists them as ninjutsu which makes sense actually.

Kusanagi can cut through almost anything from part 1?
Databooks are crap and don't count. They're just another way to get people to spend money on the manga.

Kusanagi couldn't cut through the Third's Monkey Staff. It couldn't cut through KN4 chakra coat. Samehada hasn't been shown to have ever been damaged, and it smashes through rocks and trees with ease.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:17 PM
Databooks are crap and don't count. They're just another way to get people to spend money on the manga.

Kusanagi couldn't cut through the Third's Monkey Staff. It couldn't cut through KN4 chakra coat. Samehada hasn't been shown to have ever been damaged, and it smashes through rocks and trees with ease.

You have no proof of such things. Just because the Databook is crap on some stats and some hyperboles doesn't make it so.

Besides most of the explanations and such asides from stat controversy like the speed stats the databooks are fine. Also Hydra being ninjutsu makes sense anyway.

Well of course they didn't even brawl much with Kusanagi and the diamond staff except for a very brief moment.

It just means KN4 cloak is that durable.

Rocks and trees? When?

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:20 PM
You have no proof of such things. Just because the Databook is crap on some stats and some hyperboles doesn't make it so.

Besides most of the explanations and such asides from stat controversy like the speed stats the databooks are fine. Also Hydra being ninjutsu makes sense anyway.

Well of course they didn't even brawl much with Kusanagi and the diamond staff except for a very brief moment.

It just means KN4 cloak is that durable.

Rocks and trees? When?
It's reliability is tarnished by several clear inconsistencies or untruths throughout its pages. Also, manga is the only canon. Databooks are not. I hate when they're brought up in debates. That's not debating. It's reading from a book full of hype and crap.

How so? From what I saw a bunch of snakes popped out of nowhere. That's called summoning last I checked.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:24 PM
It's reliability is tarnished by several clear inconsistencies or untruths throughout its pages. Also, manga is the only canon. Databooks are not. I hate when they're brought up in debates. That's not debating. It's reading from a book full of hype and crap.

How so? From what I saw a bunch of snakes popped out of nowhere. That's called summoning last I checked.

Yes its reliability is tarnished on ALL LEVELS. That makes a lot of sense.

Databook is terms of descriptions and history are at least fine in generality. I have problems with the speed stats though.

Because Orochimaru never did Summoning jutsu?

tanduhman
02-12-2010, 07:26 PM
Databooks are crap and don't count. They're just another way to get people to spend money on the manga.

Kusanagi couldn't cut through the Third's Monkey Staff. It couldn't cut through KN4 chakra coat. Samehada hasn't been shown to have ever been damaged, and it smashes through rocks and trees with ease.
without water dome and chakra absorbtion i dont see a way kisame could possibly win being that those two knock-offs are the reasons why kisame is so powerfull..

I dont see kisame countering see of snakes.. thousands of snakes all at once would be overwhelming for kisame.
i will admit that spitting out a lake of water and creating an army of water clones with his massive chakra would be a good advantage though

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:27 PM
Yes its reliability is tarnished on ALL LEVELS. That makes a lot of sense.

Databook is terms of descriptions and history are at least fine in generality. I have problems with the speed stats though.

Because Orochimaru never did Summoning jutsu?
It does. :|

Meh. I still say manga should be the only thing allowed for debates.

As of when? Did you see him perform the Jutsu? Every last second of it? It takes only a moment to summon. Oro can do the same.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:30 PM
It does. :|

Meh. I still say manga should be the only thing allowed for debates.

As of when? Did you see him perform the Jutsu? Every last second of it? It takes only a moment to summon. Oro can do the same.

Bring up proof that even most descriptions and history of characters of such are bullcrap or your point is moot. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

It should be in general. I mean I never use databooks anyway.

Hydra litterally sprouted out of Sasuke's curse seal. Hydra is Orochimaru himself in a sense. Its not a summon per say.

Makes sense when Orochimaru came out of the mouth naked too.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:32 PM
without water dome and chakra absorbtion i dont see a way kisame could possibly win being that those two knock-offs are the reasons why kisame is so powerfull..

I dont see kisame countering see of snakes.. thousands of snakes all at once would be overwhelming for kisame.
i will admit that spitting out a lake of water and creating an army of water clones with his massive chakra would be a good advantage though
Contradictions, FTW!

If Kisame makes a lake and fuses he's got a massive advantage. Not only can he outlast Orochimaru, but he can also essentially make his own army of Water Clones and Hungry Sharks. If he can get Orochimaru in the water for just a second or two he can win.

Also, Kisame can heal. That puts him on par with Orochimaru's massive tanking and Oral Rebirth.

I still say it's a fair matchup.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:34 PM
Bring up proof that even most descriptions and history of characters of such are bullcrap or your point is moot. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

It should be in general. I mean I never use databooks anyway.

Hydra litterally sprouted out of Sasuke's curse seal. Hydra is Orochimaru himself in a sense. Its not a summon per say.

Makes sense when Orochimaru came out of the mouth naked too.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

Yes, it should. I hate databooks more than you know. To me it's just a bad way to waste time.

So? Who's to say it wasn't summoned while Orochimaru was inside (lol) the Sauce? There are inconsistencies like that everywhere in the series.

Ew. Naked pedo.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:37 PM
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

Yes, it should. I hate databooks more than you know. To me it's just a bad way to waste time.

So? Who's to say it wasn't summoned while Orochimaru was inside (lol) the Sauce? There are inconsistencies like that everywhere in the series.

Ew. Naked pedo.

Since you did this. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.pngI accept your subtle concession. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

Fine by me I honestly don't care but say it to some of those in Naruto Battledome lol.

That makes no sense and you know it.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Since you did this. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.pngI accept your subtle concession. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

Fine by me I honestly don't care but say it to some of those in Naruto Battledome lol.

That makes no sense and you know it.
.......xD

I don't even want to know.

It can make sense. I'll give you a minute to wrap your mind around it.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:44 PM
.......xD

I don't even want to know.

It can make sense. I'll give you a minute to wrap your mind around it.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

No it doesn't convince me please.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:46 PM
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

No it doesn't convince me please.
You just need more time. Trust me.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:47 PM
You just need more time. Trust me.

Thats not how debates work. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 07:53 PM
Thats not how debates work. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/rasheedz/tch.png
Says you. What proof do you have?

I completely forgot what I was avoiding. I'll assume I concede to you.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 07:57 PM
Says you. What proof do you have?

I completely forgot what I was avoiding. I'll assume I concede to you.

No no no. What you said was that Orochimaru could have summoned inside Sasuke's head, and I asked for proof.

SageoftheSixPaths
02-12-2010, 08:00 PM
No no no. What you said was that Orochimaru could have summoned inside Sasuke's head, and I asked for proof.
Oh, yeah, that was complete BS. I was floundering.

I now realize I win this argument by going to edit to OP. Which trumps debating by a longshot.

321zigzag1
02-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Oh, yeah, that was complete BS. I was floundering.

I now realize I win this argument by going to edit to OP. Which trumps debating by a longshot.

Which means actually you are conceding well you admitted that earlier so anyway.

So no hydra?

Teddie
02-12-2010, 09:37 PM
I know. He really had a lot more potential. My friend actually has a decent theory as to how he could come back, though. However, that's not BG material.

How is Orochimaru so much better than Kisame? If Kisame spits out a lake he has a massive advantage. If he goes shark mode he can own Orochimaru as long as he stays underwater. Shark Bombs spam could easily counter snake attacks. Both have pretty insane tanking abilities as well. I still fail to see how Kisame can't hold his own against Orochimaru here. I'm not say Oro loses, but just that you'll have to give me a better reason than "He's better".

I definitely do. He definitely is coming back.

Orochimaru would stomp with a coupla dead bodies, but he doesnt have that. The best he would be able to do is get close and seal chakra, but thats hard enough as it is, what with samehada lying around. Overall, I'm gunna agree taht it's a fair match.

[Shikamaru]
02-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Kisame stomps.

Orochimaru's speed is no where near Kisame's, he also has no counter for water dome or Kisame's blade.

He could bind with it at start, and probably speed blitz Orochimaru, slicing him in half and draining his chakra, disallowing him to reform or rebirth.

Edit: The author took away water dome and chakra absorbtion, so Orochimaru could simply continue to rebirth, or completely bury Kisame in snake summons.

You basically took away what makes Kisame powerful, now he's simply a Jonin ranked ninja with only a few exceptional medium-scaled water ninjutsu.

That's basically like taking MS from Itachi. Leaving him with only Taijutsu and fire ninjutsu.

Teddie
02-13-2010, 08:06 AM
;2441935']Kisame stomps.

Orochimaru's speed is no where near Kisame's, he also has no counter for water dome or Kisame's blade.

He could bind with it at start, and probably speed blitz Orochimaru, slicing him in half and draining his chakra, disallowing him to reform or rebirth.

Edit: The author took away water dome and chakra absorbtion, so Orochimaru could simply continue to rebirth, or completely bury Kisame in snake summons.

You basically took away what makes Kisame powerful, now he's simply a Jonin ranked ninja with only a few exceptional medium-scaled water ninjutsu.

That's basically like taking MS from Itachi. Leaving him with only Taijutsu and fire ninjutsu.

Not exactly, he can still do moves like explosive water shockwave, which is an exceptional large scale water ninjutsu.
And Boss summons were taken out, so Orochimaru doesnt have Manda.
And he cant live immortally indefinitely.

Lady Tsunade
02-13-2010, 10:43 AM
Water Dome drowns him. Chakra absorption owns almost all of his attacks. I did forget to take away boss summons, though. Other than that, I fail to see Oro winning this one with ease.
Orochimaru isnt getting caught in a WaterDome before Kisame gets spammed with attacks like Sea of Snakes or Wind Release:Great Breakthrough. And Kisame certainly isnt getting close enough to Orochimaru to suck his chakra before Orochimarus Giant Kusanagi can knock him backwards.

Chakra absoption and Waterdome are Kisames main attacks. His speed isnt helping him against someone who can counter almost everything with a huge range of dicerse Ninjutsu.Banning them is unfair Imo

Orochimaru takes this fairly easily

321zigzag1
02-13-2010, 10:47 AM
Orochimaru isnt getting caught in a WaterDome before Kisame gets spammed with attacks like Sea of Snakes or Wind Release:Great Breakthrough. And Kisame certainly isnt getting close enough to Orochimaru to suck his chakra before Orochimarus Giant Kusanagi can knock him backwards.

Chakra absoption and Waterdome are Kisames main attacks. His speed isnt helping him against someone who can counter almost everything with a huge range of dicerse Ninjutsu.Banning them is unfair Imo

Orochimaru takes this fairly easily


You realize that even 7 Tailed Killerbee couldn't react to the Greater Water Shockwave even though he was close.

Orochimaru would get trapped.

Water Shockwave > Sea of Snakes

That wind jutsu orochimaru is not doing much to Kisame.

He has water clones and shark missiles.