Itachi vs Kisame

[camcam417]

Who would win Itachi or Kisame

Field: Grassy plain

no rules

[321zigzag1]

Itachi's Top tier Genjutsu and MS Hax sadly puts him above Kisame.

[*HinataGurl*]

itachi no doubt, genjustu puts him ahead of kisame because kisame really only uses melee attacks. itachi can use long distance so the odds are really in his favor.

[Zeek Uchiha]

Kisame already said Itachi is stronger then him and all the jutsu Itachi has it would be a good match but Itachi wins

[deidara330]

Kisame already said Itachi is stronger then him and all the jutsu Itachi has it would be a good match but Itachi winsSaying something is true doesn't necessarily make it so. Kisame could absorb Amaterasu and Susano'o, and he could get out of Genjutsu using Samehada.

[Demonnaruto21]

Itachi

[darkjam]

Itachi... definitely...

[itachi uchiha1]

itachi wins because
he could use amaterasu or sasanoo to kill kisame otherwise then that kisame doesnt stand a chance against him :twisted:

[Zeek Uchiha]

Saying something is true doesn't necessarily make it so. Kisame could absorb Amaterasu and Susano'o, and he could get out of Genjutsu using Samehada.absorb amaretsu and Susano"o no way that would happen

[Chibi Shika Fangirl]

Itachi because he could put Kisame under a genjutsu and finish him off. Kisame would be a tough opponent though.

[deidara330]

Itachi's Top tier Genjutsu and MS Hax sadly puts him above Kisame.Samehada could disrupt Kisame's chakra and get him out of any Genjutsu. Kisame could absorb Susano'o and Amaterasu.itachi no doubt, genjustu puts him ahead of kisame because kisame really only uses melee attacks. itachi can use long distance so the odds are really in his favor.Because Samehada is always affecting Kisame's chakra, Tsukuyomi would be innefective, as well as any other genjutsu.itachi wins because
he could use amaterasu or sasanoo to kill kisame otherwise then that kisame doesnt stand a chance against him :twisted:Kisame could absorb them both.absorb amaretsu and Susano"o no way that would happenSamehada absorbs chakra. Chakra is basically all that jutsu are. Amaterasu and Susano'o are chakra, so Samehada can absorb them both.Itachi because he could put Kisame under a genjutsu and finish him off. Kisame would be a tough opponent though.Samehada would get Kisame out of Genjutsu.

[itachi uchiha1]

samehada cant defeat sasanoo!!

[deidara330]

samehada cant defeat sasanoo!!I never said it could. I said it could absorb Susano'o. Susano'o is chakra. Samehada absorbs chakra. Therefore, Samehada absorbs Susano'o.

[Kakuzu]

Kisame had been a long-time partner with Itachi and Itachi has been a long-time partner with Kisame, making this a tough battle. All of Itachi's genejutsu are useless as Kisame knows the stradegy to avoid getting caught in one. And Itachi knows all of Kisame's weaknesses. So, it all comes down to Susanoo and Samehada powers and advantages...

[Zeek Uchiha]

but u said ameretsu and he wouldn't absorb that and I doubt it would even get the chance to absorb Sasuno'o wit Sasuno'o's sword of sealing and his shield

[deidara330]

but u said ameretsu and he wouldn't absorb that and I doubt it would even get the chance to absorb Sasuno'o wit Sasuno'o's sword of sealing and his shieldAmaterasu is chakra, Samehada can absorb it. If you disagree, Kisame can dodge it. When fused with Samehada, Kisame is Supersonic+, which is more or less the same speed as the Raikage when he dodged Amaterasu. However, I still say he can absorb it. The Susano'o's shield and sword are simply chakra as well. All jutsu are just chakra at their base elements, Samehada can absorb them.

[321zigzag1]

There is no proof Samehada can break Kisame out of genjutsu its never been proven.

[Zeek Uchiha]

Ameretsu is not pure chakra and Sasuno'o can do long range attacks as well

[Zeek Uchiha]

and Itachi can put u in a genjutsu wit one finger

[deidara330]

There is no proof Samehada can break Kisame out of genjutsu its never been proven.Samehada can absorb chakra, and also give it to Kisame. This means that Samehada can absorb and restore Kisame's cchakra at a constant rate, disrupting his chakra flow too often for Tsukuyomi or any other genjutsu to have an effect. Even though it was never shown, the same principle applies to how Karin can suppress her chakra, so she can get herself out of genjutsu. Or what Shii said about the Raikage, the Raiton Armor constantly stimulates his senses, so he can't be caught in genjutsu.

[321zigzag1]

Ameretsu is not pure chakra and Sasuno'o can do long range attacks as well

Amaterasu is made out of chakra. The End.

[deidara330]

Ameretsu is not pure chakra and Sasuno'o can do long range attacks as wellAmaterasu and Susano'o are chakra, so Samehada can absorb them.and Itachi can put u in a genjutsu wit one fingerSamehada constantly disrupts Kisame's chakra flow and Kisame doesn't get caught in the Genjutsu.

[321zigzag1]

Samehada constantly disrupts Kisame's chakra flow and Kisame doesn't get caught in the Genjutsu.

Wut?




__

[deidara330]

Wut?




__Simple, Samehada can absorb Kisame chakra, and give it back to him in the same amount. If it does this constantly, Kisame's flow of chakra is disrupted, and therefore genjutsu can't affect him.

[321zigzag1]

Simple, Samehada can absorb Kisame chakra, and give it back to him in the same amount. If it does this constantly, Kisame's flow of chakra is disrupted, and therefore genjutsu can't affect him.

I thought that was when momentarily fusing when Samehada does that?

[deidara330]

I thought that was when momentarily fusing when Samehada does that?Not necessarily. Samehada can absorb and restore Kisame's chakra at any time, when they're fused, it only gives Kisame the ability to absorb chakra by being in contact with his opponent, rather than by putting Samehada in contact with his opponent. It allows him to use Samehada's abilities and still retain his own.

[321zigzag1]

Not necessarily. Samehada can absorb and restore Kisame's chakra at any time, when they're fused, it only gives Kisame the ability to absorb chakra by being in contact with his opponent, rather than by putting Samehada in contact with his opponent. It allows him to use Samehada's abilities and still retain his own.

Still its never proven of such genjutsu breakage.

Considering in the partner thing the partner must realize the other is under a genjutsu.

[deidara330]

Still its never proven of such genjutsu breakage.

Considering in the partner thing the partner must realize the other is under a genjutsu.Well, Kisame knows that Itachi uses genjutsu, so Samehada could simply be doing this at the start of the battle. It hasn't had a feat of breaking genjutsu, but it fulfills all requirements, so it should.

[321zigzag1]

Well, Kisame knows that Itachi uses genjutsu, so Samehada could simply be doing this at the start of the battle. It hasn't had a feat of breaking genjutsu, but it fulfills all requirements, so it should.

Well it hasn't shown so we can't really say such its like the whole speculation of HM Jiraiya being immunes to genjutsu because of Pa and Ma.

[deidara330]

Well it hasn't shown so we can't really say such its like the whole speculation of HM Jiraiya being immunes to genjutsu because of Pa and Ma.Well, it's a theory, with evidence to back it up. Samehada fulfills all requirements of breaking a genjutsu, therefore it is capable of doing so.

[Rasen_Chidori]

Itachi, Amaterasu and other MS abilities easily puts Itachi above Kisame. This one wouldn't take too long I don't think.

[Shinobi killer]

I will say Kisame wins... With Samehada he eats Itachi's chakra, then just ends him...

[Itachi Uchia]

I will say Kisame wins... With Samehada he eats Itachi's chakra, then just ends him...
I have to disagree with you on that one Itachi will beat Kisame easily

[Steven]

Well, it's a theory, with evidence to back it up. Samehada fulfills all requirements of breaking a genjutsu, therefore it is capable of doing so.

doesnt Samehada have to touching him to give him chakra, Itachi is better at Taijutsu and could get it away with no problem. Itachi then uses his MS Genjutsu that last less then a second rape Kisames mind, and hits him with the black flames before Samehada has a chance at healing him, or Itachi seal him away with Sasano'o sword.

[Jinchiruuki]

Saying something is true doesn't necessarily make it so. Kisame could absorb Amaterasu and Susano'o, and he could get out of Genjutsu using Samehada.

Samehada can absorb chakra, and also give it to Kisame. This means that Samehada can absorb and restore Kisame's cchakra at a constant rate, disrupting his chakra flow too often for Tsukuyomi or any other genjutsu to have an effect. Even though it was never shown, the same principle applies to how Karin can suppress her chakra, so she can get herself out of genjutsu. Or what Shii said about the Raikage, the Raiton Armor constantly stimulates his senses, so he can't be caught in genjutsu.

Proof?

Where does it show these feats? Hmm no where.

I have never seen it to where Samehada disturbs his chakra like a tailed beast.

Itachi would win even if such feats were true. His taijutsu speed is greater than Kisame's, Hand sealing easily faster (was able to weave signs for a shadow clone in the middle of a shuriken shootout with Sasuke) and by the way...How can Samehada eat the chakra out of Amaterasu? It is inextinguishable..and anything that touches it gets set ablaze...so Samahada would catch on fire.

The idea of it eating Susanoo's chakra as well would be pretty farfetched. Even if it could, good luck sucking all the chakra out of it without getting hit by the sword or another jutsu.

Genjutsu also would play a role in this fight seeing there are no feats of Samehada breaking him out of genjutsu. Tsuky and it is done.

[Master Perfect]

do not read unless u read the manga
Kisame does have his new shark mode and he is strong so maybe kisame so they might be equal

[Jinchiruuki]

do not read unless u read the manga
Kisame does have his new shark mode and he is strong so maybe kisame so they might be equal

That was never new...it was new to us..but Kisame had the ability to have that form for a while.

Itachi WITH illness was regarded as stronger than Kisame.

I don't see any feats to argue Kisame's win whatsoever except by theory which isn't even viable since there is no evidence nor proof.

[tanduhman]

That was never new...it was new to us..but Kisame had the ability to have that form for a while.

Itachi WITH illness was regarded as stronger than Kisame.

I don't see any feats to argue Kisame's win whatsoever except by theory which isn't even viable since there is no evidence nor proof.
what if kisame just does water dome right off the start? than whats itachi going to do? drown to death?

[Seven]

Kisame wins it took 1 kage and a jinchuuriki 2 kill him. the same kage that kicked sasukes butt and sasuke killed itachi.

[Jinchiruuki]

what if kisame just does water dome right off the start? than whats itachi going to do? drown to death?

He would have to get in close quarters for that.

Itachi is mainly a mid-long range fighter using genjutsu, amaterasu, fire release techniques etc.

Even if water dome occurs, Amaterasu would still work and so would genjutsu.

[Jinchiruuki]

Kisame wins it took 1 kage and a jinchuuriki 2 kill him. the same kage that kicked sasukes butt and sasuke killed itachi.

Itachi LET sasuke kill him....his whole plan was to die by his hands...had he wanted to Itachi could have killed him.

[Itachi Uchia]

Itachi LET sasuke kill him....his whole plan was to die by his hands...had he wanted to Itachi could have killed him.
Itachi did not let sasuke kill him

[Seven]

He would have to get in close quarters for that.

Itachi is mainly a mid-long range fighter using genjutsu, amaterasu, fire release techniques etc.

Even if water dome occurs, Amaterasu would still work and so would genjutsu.

Exploding water shockwave would surley dampin itachis day and Suiton:infinate shark would total itachi and plus Kisame's earth style jutsu where he goes underground would evade amaterasu and susano. Then Samahada mode under water has the advantage with water dome.

[Seven]

Itachi LET sasuke kill him....his whole plan was to die by his hands...had he wanted to Itachi could have killed him.

if itachi wanted sasuke 2 kill him it would've happened alot sooner like when he and sasuke met in tanzaku town.

[Jinchiruuki]

Itachi did not let sasuke kill him

Are joking? Yeah he did. Go read up on it or something.

Exploding water shockwave would surley dampin itachis day and Suiton:infinate shark would total itachi and plus Kisame's earth style jutsu where he goes underground would evade amaterasu and susano. Then Samahada mode under water has the advantage with water dome.

Susanoo would defend against such attacks for one.

Have you all forgotten about the sharingan?
Itachi could read Kisame's movements and counter effectively and quickly.
That undergroud jutsu won't do anything except evade and even if he did evade, Itachi could still counter.

[Jinchiruuki]

if itachi wanted sasuke 2 kill him it would've happened alot sooner like when he and sasuke met in tanzaku town.

Uh no...because Itachi wanted it to be a fight to awaken Sasuke's Mangekyo sharingan and to avenge his clan...Sasuke was too young and his sharingan was incomplete at that time so he was not ready for what Itachi wanted to put him through.


This is besides the point so stop bringing up useless false info.

[Itachi Uchia]

Are joking? Yeah he did. Go read up on it or something.



Susanoo would defend against such attacks for one.

Have you all forgotten about the sharingan?
Itachi could read Kisame's movements and counter effectively and quickly.
That undergroud jutsu won't do anything except evade and even if he did evade, Itachi could still counter.
Itachi was going to die way before sasuke could kill him remeber itachi was alrady sick when he was fighting sasuke and also his mangekyo was takeing a toll on his body

[Jinchiruuki]

Itachi was going to die way before sasuke could kill him remeber itachi was alrady sick when he was fighting sasuke and also his mangekyo was takeing a toll on his body


His whole plan with his battle with Sasuke was to die by his hands.

Yet again I will say. This is besides the point of the thread. So stop bringing up useless false information.

[Seven]

Are joking? Yeah he did. Go read up on it or something.



Susanoo would defend against such attacks for one.

Have you all forgotten about the sharingan?
Itachi could read Kisame's movements and counter effectively and quickly.
That undergroud jutsu won't do anything except evade and even if he did evade, Itachi could still counter.

yes but under water itachi couldn't use Amaterasu or he would boil himself alive. And susano takes a huge amount of chakra to manifest. Then under water its harder 2 move. Even if Itachi was sensing Kisame's movements underwater he couldn't react fast enough 2 counter against Samahada mode and even if he did his chakra would drain from even touching Samahada mode's skin thus leaving him not enough 2 manifest his "unperfect" susano.

[katsuki]

Itachi would win!

[Jinchiruuki]

yes but under water itachi couldn't use Amaterasu or he would boil himself alive. And susano takes a huge amount of chakra to manifest. Then under water its harder 2 move. Even if Itachi was sensing Kisame's movements underwater he couldn't react fast enough 2 counter against Samahada mode and even if he did his chakra would drain from even touching Samahada mode's skin thus leaving him not enough 2 manifest his "unperfect" susano.


How would he boil himself alive?

And Amaterasu could work underwater seeing as it burned KB while he was in the water.

So what ? Itachi had a huge chakra pool proven by his ability to keep his sharingan activated all the time and use high level jutsu consecutively.

I disagree on the not being able to react against his movements.

You still have yet to counter Itachi's Genjutsu.

[Seven]

How would he boil himself alive?

And Amaterasu could work underwater seeing as it burned KB while he was in the water.

So what ? Itachi had a huge chakra pool proven by his ability to keep his sharingan activated all the time and use high level jutsu consecutively.

I disagree on the not being able to react against his movements.

You still have yet to counter Itachi's Genjutsu.

Thats exactly how he would boil himself alive Amaterasu works underwater soooo it would rapidly heat the water like with KB and boil them alive. As for the Genjutsu Kisame would easily not get caught by Itachi's genjutsu if he didn't look at his eyes. and the reason he keeps his sharingan active is because when he's not using MS is because it doesn't take that much chakra. Look at haku he doesn't have as much chakra as itachi but he could keep his KG going as long as he wants. Same with kimimaro.

[MadaraTobi]

Id say Itachi because,well i mean all of what he and the sharingan can do.And if I recall itachi always kind of bossed around kisame.

[Jinchiruuki]

Thats exactly how he would boil himself alive Amaterasu works underwater soooo it would rapidly heat the water like with KB and boil them alive. As for the Genjutsu Kisame would easily not get caught by Itachi's genjutsu if he didn't look at his eyes. and the reason he keeps his sharingan active is because when he's not using MS is because it doesn't take that much chakra. Look at haku he doesn't have as much chakra as itachi but he could keep his KG going as long as he wants. Same with kimimaro.

Itachi used a finger point to put Naruto in a genjutsu so eye contact is not always a requirement.

Haku could not keep his KG going as long as he wants...it drains his chakra too.

[Seven]

Itachi used a finger point to put Naruto in a genjutsu so eye contact is not always a requirement.

Haku could not keep his KG going as long as he wants...it drains his chakra too.

exactly but they can control how much chakra they put into it and thats how he can keep it going. Thus Susano took a huge toll on Itachi when he fought sasuke and it wasn't even a perfect susano like sasukes wich takes more chakra then itachi's. Kisame could slash susano with his sword and drain susano's chakra making it and itachi weaker.

[Jinchiruuki]

exactly but they can control how much chakra they put into it and thats how he can keep it going. Thus Susano took a huge toll on Itachi when he fought sasuke and it wasn't even a perfect susano like sasukes wich takes more chakra then itachi's. Kisame could slash susano with his sword and drain susano's chakra making it and itachi weaker.


Itachi's Susanoo was perfect for sealing Orochimaru..it had armor and all.

Where is the feat that Samehada > Susanoo?

Itachi's sharingan activation was due to his mastery of it...but add the use of high level jutsu along with it still going and that makes his chakra pool pretty large. To compare him to Haku is fodder.

In order for Kisame to slash Susanoo he would have to get close...if he got too close he would get sealed away.

[Seven]

Itachi's Susanoo was perfect for sealing Orochimaru..it had armor and all.

Where is the feat that Samehada > Susanoo?

Itachi's sharingan activation was due to his mastery of it...but add the use of high level jutsu along with it still going and that makes his chakra pool pretty large. To compare him to Haku is fodder.

In order for Kisame to slash Susanoo he would have to get close...if he got too close he would get sealed away.

not if he was able 2 move oh wait he is! Susano isn't faster than kisame in shark mode under water and it Samahada can drain the very essence of susano since its made of chakra.

[Jinchiruuki]

not if he was able 2 move oh wait he is! Susano isn't faster than kisame in shark mode under water and it Samahada can drain the very essence of susano since its made of chakra.

That is if he got underwater before Itachi did something which I doubt he would. Yet again your presenting pointless statements.

Genjutsu would happen before Kisame could do anything. Game over.

While Samehada may be able to drain Susanoo's chakra he would still need to get in range for it and would get hit by Susanoo's Sealing sword.

[Seven]

That is if he got underwater before Itachi did something which I doubt he would. Yet again your presenting pointless statements.

Genjutsu would happen before Kisame could do anything. Game over.

While Samehada may be able to drain Susanoo's chakra he would still need to get in range for it and would get hit by Susanoo's Sealing sword.

The genjutsu wouldn't work as u said before Itachi got naruto in a genjutsu with 1 finger but naruto was also looking straight at itachi eyes and all when it happened. Kisame knows he can evade itachi's MS genjutsu by not looking at his eyes thanks 2 Guy yelling it as loud as he could when he fought with kakashi, asuma,and kuranai. and kisame is way faster than susano's sword he could dodge it easily. And exploding water shockwave would put them underwater and at the same time attack Itachi with a mini tidal wave thus not giving him time to attack kisame before they were submerged. thus advantage goes 2 Kisame who also has way more battle expeirience.

[Jinchiruuki]

The genjutsu wouldn't work as u said before Itachi got naruto in a genjutsu with 1 finger but naruto was also looking straight at itachi eyes and all when it happened.

Um nope..Naruto even stated he didn't look into his eyes and still fell under a genjutsu. He was put in a genjutsu by Itachi who merely pointed a finger at him.

Kisame knows he can evade itachi's MS genjutsu by not looking at his eyes thanks 2 Guy yelling it as loud as he could when he fought with kakashi, asuma,and kuranai.

So what if he knows? Itachi would find a way to put him under a genjutsu.

and kisame is way faster than susano's sword he could dodge it easily. And exploding water shockwave would put them underwater and at the same time attack Itachi with a mini tidal wave thus not giving him time to attack kisame before they were submerged. thus advantage goes 2 Kisame who also has way more battle expeirience.

I will give you that Kisame is faster than Susanoo.
But there is still nothing to prove that he has anything to prevent a genjutsu from occuring. Itachi would easily do it in a matter of a second..and when that happens Kisame loses.



Responses in red.

I am done after this post since I have not seen anything viable to argue Itachi's Genjutsu.

[Seven]

Thats bull saying Itachi would find a way 2 put Kisame in a genjutsu is not Viable. Kisame Tanks Itachi.

[Jinchiruuki]

Thats bull saying Itachi would find a way 2 put Kisame in a genjutsu is not Viable. Kisame Tanks Itachi.

Tanks? How does he tank genjutsu?

You worded that wrong by the way.

Itachi finding a way to put Kisame in a genjutsu is viable.

What I said was there is no feats or anything to prove that Kisame could counter, or get out of genjutsu.

Alright this is my last post for sure this time.

[tanduhman]

Tanks? How does he tank genjutsu?

You worded that wrong by the way.

Itachi finding a way to put Kisame in a genjutsu is viable.

What I said was there is no feats or anything to prove that Kisame could counter, or get out of genjutsu.

Alright this is my last post for sure this time.

well im back... sorry if I missed everything..
Ill admit itachi could probably get kisame in a finger gengutsu due to how easy that would be. But Being that kisames samehada has shown to be able to heal him in a large manner shows how his samehada can feed him chakra. That is enough proof to say that it can act as a gengutsu breaker. If kisame was really that weak to gengutsu than any gengutsu user could beat him. Yet he is a very powerfull S rank up in the brackets with Itachi.

And for you saying that itachi would find a way to put kisame in a gengutsu isnt a feat is also false feats and information.
Thatd be like me saying for example: "kisame would find a way to get itachi underwater".. It rlly gets this debate nowhere.

Also I wouldnt say that water dome is close ranged... it was shown to be as tall as a mountain in the picture.. the mountain height looked somewhat close to the diameter of the original circle.. so my point either way is that itachi would most likely be caught in the water dome. and again, now what?? if he uses susano I doubt he could breathe forever. I doubt that he could keep up with kisames fusion speed.

[Seven]

well im back... sorry if I missed everything..
Ill admit itachi could probably get kisame in a finger gengutsu due to how easy that would be. But Being that kisames samehada has shown to be able to heal him in a large manner shows how his samehada can feed him chakra. That is enough proof to say that it can act as a gengutsu breaker. If kisame was really that weak to gengutsu than any gengutsu user could beat him. Yet he is a very powerfull S rank up in the brackets with Itachi.

And for you saying that itachi would find a way to put kisame in a gengutsu isnt a feat is also false feats and information.
Thatd be like me saying for example: "kisame would find a way to get itachi underwater".. It rlly gets this debate nowhere.

Also I wouldnt say that water dome is close ranged... it was shown to be as tall as a mountain in the picture.. the mountain height looked somewhat close to the diameter of the original circle.. so my point either way is that itachi would most likely be caught in the water dome. and again, now what?? if he uses susano I doubt he could breathe forever. I doubt that he could keep up with kisames fusion speed.


theres my point on how Kisame Tanks Itachi due 2 speed, power, and overall Awesomness

[tanduhman]

theres my point on how Kisame Tanks Itachi due 2 speed, power, and overall Awesomness
thx for agreeing;)

[<3Gaara_Girl<3]

Oh Itachi most definately pones

[Sephiroth]

Itachi wins. Not because he ammy's kisame or anything lik that. Itachi use susanno. Runs at kisame. Samahadara tries to absorb it its starts to thn gets attached to teh chakra like he did KB's chakra. It betrays kisame and then kisame is useless against an ammy or genjutsu

[Vivi]

Itachi wins. Not because he ammy's kisame or anything lik that. Itachi use susanno. Runs at kisame. Samahadara tries to absorb it its starts to thn gets attached to teh chakra like he did KB's chakra. It betrays kisame and then kisame is useless against an ammy or genjutsu

So your saying Itachis Chakra is equal to a Jinchuuriki?
Samehada's betrayal was Plot.

[Seven]

Jeremy Kisame has as much chakra as a jinchuuriki not Itachi. Thats why Kisame and Samehada pwn Itachi.

[Jon Jon]

i think itachi would win

[Ino<3]

Kisame would loose but hes kewl

[Jinchiruuki]

well im back... sorry if I missed everything..
Ill admit itachi could probably get kisame in a finger gengutsu due to how easy that would be. But Being that kisames samehada has shown to be able to heal him in a large manner shows how his samehada can feed him chakra. That is enough proof to say that it can act as a gengutsu breaker.

How is that proof for it to break genjutsu? There are no feats AT ALL to show this. It may feed him chakra to heal but that is it. So you are presenting false feats and information not me. At least I am presenting actual feats in this case.


And for you saying that itachi would find a way to put kisame in a gengutsu isnt a feat is also false feats and information.
Thatd be like me saying for example: "kisame would find a way to get itachi underwater".. It rlly gets this debate nowhere.

Itachi points a finger, looks at him in the eye, etc is a feat. We have seen it multiple times so to say that is not false feats or information is in actuality a false statement.

Also I wouldnt say that water dome is close ranged... it was shown to be as tall as a mountain in the picture.. the mountain height looked somewhat close to the diameter of the original circle.. so my point either way is that itachi would most likely be caught in the water dome. and again, now what?? if he uses susano I doubt he could breathe forever. I doubt that he could keep up with kisames fusion speed.


Sharingan would be enable Itachi to keep up with Kisame or at least read his movements for one. Secondly that is if he got caught. I will agree on the diameter of the Water Dome but yet again how will Kisame do anything when Itachi puts him in a genjutsu right from the start?

We have not seen ANY feats from Kisame that he can break out of genjutsu with Samehada...to say that it does break him out of it due to it feeding him chakra to heal is complete fodder.

[Seven]

Sharingan would be enable Itachi to keep up with Kisame or at least read his movements for one. Secondly that is if he got caught. I will agree on the diameter of the Water Dome but yet again how will Kisame do anything when Itachi puts him in a genjutsu right from the start?

We have not seen ANY feats from Kisame that he can break out of genjutsu with Samehada...to say that it does break him out of it due to it feeding him chakra to heal is complete fodder.

its just like with Naruto, Chiyo, and Sakura when an ally feeds chakra into ur body it disrupts the genjutsu.

[Vivi]

Sharingan would be enable Itachi to keep up with Kisame or at least read his movements for one.

Secondly that is if he got caught. I will agree on the diameter of the Water Dome but yet again how will Kisame do anything when Itachi puts him in a genjutsu right from the start?

We have not seen ANY feats from Kisame that he can break out of genjutsu with Samehada...to say that it does break him out of it due to it feeding him chakra to heal is complete fodder.

Kisame kept up with Killerbee who is easily near the second fastest character after Raikage.
Itachi never showed such Speed.
Even if: Sharingan reads his Movements.Then what?Samehada disrupts Genjutsu,Absorbs Susanoo and possibly even Ammy.
The same Ammy that barely hurt Karin so how will it hurt Kisame?

Samehada.

Genjutsu works by disrupting the Chakra flow of an Enemy.
And its proven Samehada provides Chakra to Kisame meaning the Genjutsu's Chakra is re-ordered due to the Pumping.
Even then.Academy Knowledge:
How to get out of Genjutsu:
Dispel it.(Such as with Samehada Pumping in).
Pain.(As Shikamaru proved against Tayuya and Sasuke in the Chuunin Exams).
If your number is larger then attack the Genjutsus caster to dispel it.
(Only way here is Water Clones).

[Jinchiruuki]

its just like with Naruto, Chiyo, and Sakura when an ally feeds chakra into ur body it disrupts the genjutsu.

Wrong.

You have to disrupt the flow of chakra to break genjutsu.

Healing does not do it...healing gradually increases the flow of chakra to heal wounds. Healing also does not happen quickly with the exception of Naruto's healing ability he gets from the Kyuubi chakra.

The only ways to break genjutsu are the following:

1) Stop the flow of chakra in their body (healing increases flow slightly), and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the caster's chakra.

2) Inflict severe pain on self to bring back senses.

3) Sharingan users can break it by seeing through it.

4) Use obstructive jutsu's to block the genjutsu users sight such as Hidden Mist technique that Zabuza uses.

5) The last way is to train your eye to recognize it like Deidara did which has been the only person we have seen to do so.


In spite of these methods, some forms of genjutsu like Itachi's Tsukuyomi and Jiraiya's Frog Song may not be broken easily, either due to their near-instant effect like the former, or their ability to render one unconscious and paralysed altogether like the latter.

[Jinchiruuki]

Samehada.

Genjutsu works by disrupting the Chakra flow of an Enemy.
And its proven Samehada provides Chakra to Kisame meaning the Genjutsu's Chakra is re-ordered due to the Pumping.
Even then.Academy Knowledge:
How to get out of Genjutsu:
Dispel it.(Such as with Samehada Pumping in).
Pain.(As Shikamaru proved against Tayuya and Sasuke in the Chuunin Exams).
If your number is larger then attack the Genjutsus caster to dispel it.
(Only way here is Water Clones).

1st Underlined: Wrong. Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind's chakra, thereby affecting their five senses.

Where are the feats to show Samehada could break genjutsu? It may heal him but there is nothing about it stopping Kisame's flow of chakra and then suddenly surging it for him.

[Seven]

1st Underlined: Wrong. Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind's chakra, thereby affecting their five senses.

Where are the feats to show Samehada could break genjutsu? It may heal him but there is nothing about it stopping Kisame's flow of chakra and then suddenly surging it for him.

it doesn't stop it! It returns it 2 normal when their chakra is funneled in.

[Jinchiruuki]

it doesn't stop it! It returns it 2 normal when their chakra is funneled in.

Then it doesn't break the genjutsu :lol:

The only way to break a genjutsu for Kisame is by stopping the flow of chakra and surging it suddenly. Which is my point exactly that you just confirmed.

Secondly good luck with breaking Itachi's Tsuky. The way he does it I doubt Kisame could identify he was in a genjutsu until it was too late.

[321zigzag1]

I am surprised this thread is going on.
I thought it was canon that Kisame loses mainly because of Genjutsu and MS hax.

I do not think Itachi is fast enough to blitz Kisame considering Kisame reacted to Base Killerbee a top tier speedster very well. Although Itachi is still unknown in true skill.

Its also quite a pity. We have seen Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara, Sasori go all out for the kill.

However, Pain and Itachi and even Kisame in their final battle couldn't go all out for the kill because of different objectives.

See even Kisame didn't fight to kill although we don't know how differently he would act.

[Jinchiruuki]

I am surprised this thread is going on.
I thought it was canon that Kisame loses mainly because of Genjutsu and MS hax.

I do not think Itachi is fast enough to blitz Kisame considering Kisame reacted to Base Killerbee a top tier speedster very well. Although Itachi is still unknown in true skill.

Its also quite a pity. We have seen Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara, Sasori go all out for the kill.

However, Pain and Itachi and even Kisame in their final battle couldn't go all out for the kill because of different objectives.

See even Kisame didn't fight to kill although we don't know how differently he would act.

Which is why you can't compare Itachi's fight with Sasuke to this one.

Itachi intended to die by Sasuke. Had he really wanted to he would have killed him..either then or right after the chunin exams.

I don't think he is fast enough either but there is no evidence that Kisame could break out of genjutsu especially a Tsuky.

[tanduhman]

Which is why you can't compare Itachi's fight with Sasuke to this one.

Itachi intended to die by Sasuke. Had he really wanted to he would have killed him..either then or right after the chunin exams.

I don't think he is fast enough either but there is no evidence that Kisame could break out of genjutsu especially a Tsuky.
I could care less about relating sasukes fight.. thats a completely different story. And your right it shouldnt matter in this thread so lets just not mention it further on..

We all know kisame knows how to not get caught in tsuky.. hes been his partner, and he knows the ways of the tsuky.

As for the gengutsu, a feat is a feat if if another feat proves that feat to make sense.
If a=b and a =c.. than obviusly b=c as well.. weve all been through algebra.. or atleast im assuming youve aqcuired that knowledge.

In this scenario if the way to break a gengutsu is to have another source of chakra flowing through you... and the samehada has shown the ability to flow chakra through kisame.. than obviusly basic finger gengutsu is broken.. its as simple as a math equation.

I really should not have to explain that further. Its like saying oh.. we havnt seen the enemy throw a kunai so he OBVIUSLY cannot do so because that does not prove the feat.. exactly

[deidara330]

Proof?

Where does it show these feats? Hmm no where.

I have never seen it to where Samehada disturbs his chakra like a tailed beast.

Samehada can give Kisame chakra. You've seen it do this in Kisame VS KB. It also absorbed Kisame's chakra in the exact same fight, when defecting to KB's side. Therefore, it simply absorbs Kisame's chakra and gives it back to him, disrupting the flow of his chakra and keeping him out of any genjutsu.

Itachi would win even if such feats were true. His taijutsu speed is greater than Kisame's,

Since when? Kisame is Low Supersonic, IIRC Itachi isn't even Supersonic+, so that's barely a speedblitz. Kisame kept up with and defeated KB, who was said to be able to beat Itachi by many people in other threads.

Hand sealing easily faster (was able to weave signs for a shadow clone in the middle of a shuriken shootout with Sasuke)

And? Shadow Clones won't do crap, they're chakra, so Kisame can absorb them. Or he could escape them.

and by the way...How can Samehada eat the chakra out of Amaterasu? It is inextinguishable..and anything that touches it gets set ablaze...so Samahada would catch on fire.

Amaterasu is chakra. Samehada absorbs chakra. Samehada absorbs Amaterasu.

The idea of it eating Susanoo's chakra as well would be pretty farfetched. Even if it could, good luck sucking all the chakra out of it without getting hit by the sword or another jutsu.

So the idea of a chakra-eating sword eating chakra is farfetched? Also, KB threw a Raiton charged sword at Kisame, and Samehada absorbed all of the chakra before it could deal a fatal blow. Also, IIRC Itachi doesn't have Biju level chakra. Samehada can absorb entire tails worth of chakra in seconds, in only 4 chapters KB couldn't even MOVE. Not to mention the fact that Sabu and Ponta constantly provided a disruption.

Genjutsu also would play a role in this fight seeing there are no feats of Samehada breaking him out of genjutsu. Tsuky and it is done.There are no feats of Raikage breaking out of genjutsu, yet Shii said he couldn't be affected, and he never was even against a genjutsu user. The feat itself doesn't have to be breaking out of genjutsu, the feat merely has to fulfill the requirements of breaking out. Samehada has those feats. It can disrupt Kisame's chakra flow, which is the only requirement for escaping Genjutsu. Therefore, Kisame can escape Genjutsu.

People think that Itachi can beat Sasori, Itachi can beat Kisame, Itachi can beat Sasuke, just because Madara said he was more powerful than every feat he's shown. Some people even actually think he can beat Pain. Itachi, amongst the top tier fighters of Naruto, is massively overrated.
doesnt Samehada have to touching him to give him chakra, Itachi is better at Taijutsu and could get it away with no problem.

I'm sorry wut? Kisame uses water dome, KB got blitzed by that one jutsu. Itachi can't escape what KB can't escape in Biju form. Also, Kisame is Supersonic+ in the water, so he blitzes. When fused, Itachi can't possibly get Samehada away.

Itachi then uses his MS Genjutsu that last less then a second rape Kisames mind, and hits him with the black flames before Samehada has a chance at healing him, or Itachi seal him away with Sasano'o sword.Assuming it's actually possible for Itachi to run up and get Samehada away before Kisame shoots out the water dome, Samehada would already have absorb over half of Itachi's chakra before he was finished throwing it away. In less than three chapters time, Samehada had absorbed almost all of KB's and his biju's chakra. KB couldn't even move. Itachi doesn't have a biju to give him extra chakra, and I know he doesn't have as much as KB.

[Jinchiruuki]

I could care less about relating sasukes fight.. thats a completely different story. And your right it shouldnt matter in this thread so lets just not mention it further on..

We all know kisame knows how to not get caught in tsuky.. hes been his partner, and he knows the ways of the tsuky.

How will he not get caught? Please explain how that would work. Also Doesn't matter if you know the ways of it...you may know what it is but that doesn't mean you will be able to counter it or avoid it. How many people know of Kakashi's technique chidori and still get hit by it? How many people know of Itachi's genjutsu prowess and still get hit by it? Just like Naruto did, just like Kakashi did etc.


As for the gengutsu, a feat is a feat if if another feat proves that feat to make sense.
If a=b and a =c.. than obviusly b=c as well.. weve all been through algebra.. or atleast im assuming youve aqcuired that knowledge.

In this scenario if the way to break a gengutsu is to have another source of chakra flowing through you... and the samehada has shown the ability to flow chakra through kisame.. than obviusly basic finger gengutsu is broken.. its as simple as a math equation.

Ok it can flow chakra through him. But it doesn't mean it can fully disrupt his chakra to break genjutsu. Flowing through chakra is not the same as stopping it and then causing a sudden surge. Yet again HEALING is a different chakra flow than genjutsu...you can't compare the two in this instance imo.


I really should not have to explain that further. Its like saying oh.. we havnt seen the enemy throw a kunai so he OBVIUSLY cannot do so because that does not prove the feat.. exactly

To compare throwing a kunai to breaking genjutsu is fodder :lol:

There are no feats of Raikage breaking out of genjutsu, yet Shii said he couldn't be affected, and he never was even against a genjutsu user. The feat itself doesn't have to be breaking out of genjutsu, the feat merely has to fulfill the requirements of breaking out. Samehada has those feats. It can disrupt Kisame's chakra flow, which is the only requirement for escaping Genjutsu. Therefore, Kisame can escape Genjutsu.

People think that Itachi can beat Sasori, Itachi can beat Kisame, Itachi can beat Sasuke, just because Madara said he was more powerful than every feat he's shown. Some people even actually think he can beat Pain. Itachi, amongst the top tier fighters of Naruto, is massively overrated.
Assuming it's actually possible for Itachi to run up and get Samehada away before Kisame shoots out the water dome, Samehada would already have absorb over half of Itachi's chakra before he was finished throwing it away. In less than three chapters time, Samehada had absorbed almost all of KB's and his biju's chakra. KB couldn't even move. Itachi doesn't have a biju to give him extra chakra, and I know he doesn't have as much as KB.

Actually in my opinion he is underrated because people assume that he can just get speed blitzed and use one technique and it is over.

When did Samehada disrupt his flow? I never heard or seen that so that is a false feat for sure.

For someone to state that someone is unaffected by genjutsu is way different from this situation so that comparison is pointless imo.
So since Shii states Raikage is unaffected by genjutsu is a comparison hmmmm well then what about Kisame openly admitting Itachi is the stronger of the two?


Secondly Itachi's Tsuky is not something that is easily broken out of. It happens in a matter of a second before the victim can realize it so chakra would not be a problem for Itachi. Kisame would not even be able to get close to Itachi because of this.

By the way Itachi could not beat Sasori...he is a living puppet with no brain so genjutsu would not work on him. Itachi could have killed Sasuke had he wanted and he could definitly kill Kisame.

I pretty much agree to disagree on this one with you guys.

[deidara330]

Actually in my opinion he is underrated because people assume that he can just get speed blitzed and use one technique and it is over.

Underrated? Sasuke is Itachi with better speed and Amaterasu, yet people somehow think he loses even though he has Chidori Varients, a hawk summoning, and a Susano'o bow that Itachi doesn't.

When did Samehada disrupt his flow? I never heard or seen that so that is a false feat for sure.

He's taking chakra out. How does this not disrupt the flow of chakra.

For someone to state that someone is unaffected by genjutsu is way different from this situation so that comparison is pointless imo.
So since Shii states Raikage is unaffected by genjutsu is a comparison hmmmm well then what about Kisame openly admitting Itachi is the stronger of the two?

IIRC that's called hype. That's the same as when Madara said Itachi could've fought harder, but Itachi never showed a feat for that.

Secondly Itachi's Tsuky is not something that is easily broken out of. It happens in a matter of a second before the victim can realize it so chakra would not be a problem for Itachi. Kisame would not even be able to get close to Itachi because of this.

Well, if Samehada can simply be constantly disrupting Kisame's chakra flow, Itachi can't get him.

By the way Itachi could not beat Sasori...he is a living puppet with no brain so genjutsu would not work on him. Itachi could have killed Sasuke had he wanted and he could definitly kill Kisame.

When did Itachi suddenly get a feat that bypasses Sasuke's speed, Amaterasu, Hawk Summoning, and Susano'o bow? Also, I do think Sasori can beat Itachi, I'm just saying lots of people think he can't based on hype presented by Madara.

I pretty much agree to disagree on this one with you guys.If you didn't, it wouldn't be a debate.

[Jinchiruuki]

LOL!!! Sasuke is not Itachi at all. Itachi was a far different fighter than Sasuke especially with genjutsu. Sasuke has no where near the same genjutsu prowess as Itachi did while Sasuke's Amaterasu is better only because of his control of it. If I remember correctly Itachi was able to speed blitz Sasuke twice in their fight even when Sasuke had the sharingan activated so that is another feat right there.

@Both of you: Look it up. To break genjutsu you have to STOP The flow of chakra and cause a sudden surge. Samehada does not do that whatsoever. Done deal right there.

Considering Itachi held back in his fight against Sasuke? So why did you bring up hype then in your debate? Pointless yet again.

You guys are making up a new ability for Samehada just because of the one that it has for healing while I'm giving actual feats.

Just because Samehada heals him with chakra flow doesn't automatically mean it can control the flow and stop it and suddenly create a surge in Kisame.

[tanduhman]

@ JIN:
nonono... in order to break a gengutsu by yourself you have to stop the flow of chakra and than create a surge..

But if theres another person or another form of something giving you chakra they dont have to stop your chakra flow.. all they have to do is flow their own chakra into you.. get your facts straight.

[Jinchiruuki]

@ JIN:
nonono... in order to break a gengutsu by yourself you have to stop the flow of chakra and than create a surge..

But if theres another person or another form of something giving you chakra they dont have to stop your chakra flow.. all they have to do is flow their own chakra into you.. get your facts straight.


Wrong. A bijuu/unaffected ninja breaks genjutsu by applying a sudden surge of chakra into the affected person. Get your facts straight.

Look at Kakashi breaking Rin out of genjutsu and other people breaking out.

It's always a sudden stop /surge of chakra.

We don't know if Samehada can do that or not so to automatically assume it can is stupid imo.

[colonello]

kisame can win because samehada can absorb susanoo

[colonello]

dont forget that samehade can take six tails from the bijju

[kekki genki]

Who would win Itachi or Kisame

Field: Grassy plain

no rules

itachi would totally win because he is smarter and has better moves than kisame all he needs to do is catch kisame in his genjutsu and thats it its all over

[colonello]

yes but kisame can transform and he can boost his power up dont forget he is a criminal from akatsuki and he is one of the hidden mists that will make him more powerful

[Jinchiruuki]

kisame can win because samehada can absorb susanoo

yes but kisame can transform and he can boost his power up dont forget he is a criminal from akatsuki and he is one of the hidden mists that will make him more powerful


Present your retort for Kisame breaking out of Tsuky.

[tanduhman]

Wrong. A bijuu/unaffected ninja breaks genjutsu by applying a sudden surge of chakra into the affected person. Get your facts straight.

Look at Kakashi breaking Rin out of genjutsu and other people breaking out.

It's always a sudden stop /surge of chakra.

We don't know if Samehada can do that or not so to automatically assume it can is stupid imo.
your first sentence just proved me right:???:.. you said nothing of having to stop the effected persons flow.. which was my point..
sakura didnt stop narutos chakra flow she just flowed her own chakra into him in order to break him out.

Kisame takes peoples chakra with his samehada.. his samehada takes in all the chakra and acts as a storage place for chakra.. its obvius that both kisame and his samehada share chakra or else kisame would not recieve any of the chakra that his samehada takes.. so yah..

[Seven]

Present your retort for Kisame breaking out of Tsuky.

Samehada feeds him chakra and releases him.

[Jinchiruuki]

your first sentence just proved me right:???:.. you said nothing of having to stop the effected persons flow.. which was my point..
sakura didnt stop narutos chakra flow she just flowed her own chakra into him in order to break him out.

Kisame takes peoples chakra with his samehada.. his samehada takes in all the chakra and acts as a storage place for chakra.. its obvius that both kisame and his samehada share chakra or else kisame would not recieve any of the chakra that his samehada takes.. so yah..


Woops sorry. I meant sudden surge/stoppage of chakra flow XD

We all know what Samehada can do so you don't need to explain that to me.

What we don't know is if it can break Itachi's Tsuky or any genjutsu for that matter.

No feats to show it so therefore the ability to do so does not exist in my books.

If Samehada can break genjutsu by acting like a bijuu then yeah Kisame would win. If not then he would lose.

[Sephiroth]

So your saying Itachis Chakra is equal to a Jinchuuriki?
Samehada's betrayal was Plot.
No i am not saying that at all. They said that is could Absorb susunnao. And i it chakra and life force it may cost itachi but he could porbly use it to get teh sword to betray him lol

[Zeek Uchiha]

Itachi wins this for one Kisame already said Itachi is stronger then him and Itachi has alot of moves and Ameretsu can take down Kisame and Itachi can put u in a genjutsu with one finger that's instant pwn

[deidara330]

LOL!!! Sasuke is not Itachi at all. Itachi was a far different fighter than Sasuke especially with genjutsu. Sasuke has no where near the same genjutsu prowess as Itachi did while Sasuke's Amaterasu is better only because of his control of it.

Sorry wut? Sasuke broke through the Tsukuyomi, no feat can prove he can't do so again. Plus his Amaterasu is just better.

If I remember correctly Itachi was able to speed blitz Sasuke twice in their fight even when Sasuke had the sharingan activated so that is another feat right there.

That's outdated, do you honestly believe that Sasuke hasn't been able to match, if not surpass, Itachi's speed after fighting with Killerbee, Raikage, Mei Terumi, and Danzo? Plus, Kisame kept up with KB when Sasuke couldn't, if Kisame>Sasuke and Itachi>Sasuke then nothing proves Itachi>Kisame.

@Both of you: Look it up. To break genjutsu you have to STOP The flow of chakra and cause a sudden surge. Samehada does not do that whatsoever. Done deal right there.

(Chapter 259, Page 10). "Someone else has to physically touch you, and send chakra into you to disrupt the chakra flow". Samehada and Kisame are physically touching at all points in the battle, and Samehada could simply take out Kisame's chakra and give it to him. It fulfills every requirement.

Considering Itachi held back in his fight against Sasuke? So why did you bring up hype then in your debate? Pointless yet again.

I'm saying that Itachi "supposedly" held back, saying that he's more powerful than anything he's shown is using hype and not feats.

You guys are making up a new ability for Samehada just because of the one that it has for healing while I'm giving actual feats.

Making up? I'm not making up anything. Samehada can send chakra into Kisame, this alone fulfills the requirement of breaking a genjutsu. Go to chapter 471, Page 15. That's a feat.

Just because Samehada heals him with chakra flow doesn't automatically mean it can control the flow and stop it and suddenly create a surge in Kisame.It doesn't control the flow, it disrupts the flow. "Someone else has to physically touch you, and send chakra into you to disrupt the chakra flow". It doesn't need to stop the flow of chakra at all. It simply has to disrupt the chakra flow. By sending chakra into Kisame, it can disrupt the flow of chakra.

[kakashi_sempai]

itachi has more skill and it much faster