PDA

View Full Version : Eureka-That's how Madara did it


Wooster
01-17-2010, 12:16 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.
/adds baking soda

junchurikioftheleaf
01-17-2010, 12:18 PM
hmm good theory

Ookami Hime
01-17-2010, 12:19 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.
Hmm now that I think about it this is the most logical explanation as to why he's still alive ^^

Vivi
01-17-2010, 12:23 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.

Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|

Ur Mom
01-17-2010, 12:26 PM
Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|
You predicted this before?

Raiden
01-17-2010, 12:28 PM
Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|
WOW maybe he already had the thought in his head but didn't bother telling anybody untell now, I did when I read the last Manga Chapter, I mean did he copy word by word V-val?

Wooster
01-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|
Hey, I don't copy. But if you thought of it first, why not post it here?
/adds spoiled milk

Ashido
01-17-2010, 01:33 PM
Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|

I think it's vain to start claiming ownership over theories and/or thoughts about the manga. None of them are 100% original. Most people instantly connected that since Madara has knowledge of Izanagi, it's more than likely possible that he's used it in the past, thus leading to speculation on where/when he would have used it. Just because you write an idea down in a random internet forum, doesn't mean many others haven't already thought of it before you or picked up the same trail of thought. ;)

Anyway, nice theory Wooster, thanks for posting.

deidara330
01-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Excellent theory, makes more than perfect sense. This explains (nearly) every mystery surrounding Madara.

Deadman 8234
01-17-2010, 01:52 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.

That's a great theory. Did you come up with it all on your own.

Yori
01-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Now that's a solid theory, good job on it

Wooster
01-17-2010, 02:07 PM
I guess I should put this to rest. Yes, I am came up with this theory by myself. Obviously, others could have thought of this before. I checked the threads here for it and didn't see it.
I am an easy going guy, so if you want to claim you thought of it first that's cool. I would suggest not carelessly throwing around the charges of plagarism. In my line of work that's a serious charge. If I were to bring in other's thoughts I would always cite it.
/adds ammonium bicarbonate

Yori
01-17-2010, 02:09 PM
I guess should put this to rest. Yes, I am came up with this theory by myself. Obviously, others could have thought of this before. I checked the threads here for it and didn't see it.
I am an easy going guy, so if you want to claim you thought of it first that's cool. I would suggest not carelessly throwing around the charges of plagarism. In my line of work that's a serious charge. If I were to bring in other's thoughts I would always cite it.

Eh, I believe you my man ;)

Nine-TailedSage_Naruto
01-17-2010, 05:32 PM
hmm nice theory...

though im sure i read this theory in a prediction by Numinious. here's his prediction :

[SPOILER]Status: PREDICTION
by: Numinous

Naruto 479: Momentum Shift

(Madara Scene)
Madara: (thinking) Izanagi, a technique that brings the user back to life with the sacrifice of a Sharingan. Normally, an Uchiha would only be able to use it twice before he was rendered useless. Heck, when I sacrificed my left eye to survive the battle againt Hashirama it took a great toll on my powers… but I guess he takes little damage from the jutsu because the Sharigan on his arm are exogenous to his body. But I wonder, how did Danzou acknowledge and mastered such kinjutsu? He must’ve read the tablets in the Naka Shrine… I must admit, I underestimated him and his knowledge about the Uchiha clan…

(Sakura Scene)
(Kiba sniffs the air)
Kiba: I caught Sasuke’s scent! (Sakura looks shocked)
Lee: Yosh!
Sai: …
Kiba: But it seems that Danzou and that masked Akatsuki are near him. Should we still go after Sasuke?
Sakura: Yes. We won’t give up now.
Kiba: You’re the one calling the shots… follow me!
Sakura: (thinking) Sasuke, what are you doing?

(Mei Scene)
(Mei, Ao and Choujuurou arrive to a tree’s branch, near Sasuke’s location)
Ao: As I told you, Sasuke is with him, Mizukage-sama.
Mei: I see. What is that involving Sasuke?
Ao: It seems like a chakra entity, but I’m more worried about Danzou, he finally revealed his true colors. See that face on his shoulders?! It’s Uchiha Shisui’s face.
Mei: (shocked) Oh my…
Choujuurou: What happened to his guards?
Mei: (points at Madara, in the opposite side) I think Madara took care of them.
Ao: I still can’t believe he’s alive, but I trust your word…
Choujuurou: So, what should we do about Danzou?
Mei: I think we should wait until they separate. We don’t know what Madara is capable of, so let’s focus only in Danzou.

(Sasuke Scene)
Danzou: (thinking) I have only six Sharingan left and my jutsu has been figured out. This fight is all about endurance, so I must take the initiative.
Sasuke: (breathing heavily; thinking) This is going nowhere, I need to take him out before I run out of chakra...
(Susano’o shoots another arrow; Danzou performs a Tiger handseal combined with an Ox handseal)
Danzou: Doton: Earth Style Wall!
(an earthen wall rises in front of Danzou; the arrow is slowed by the wall; Sasuke jumps to the bridge, with Susano’o around him)

Karin: Sasuke, you didn’t hit him, beware! (the wall crumbles, revealing an intact Danzou in the middle of the dust)
Danzou: (thinking) That sensor type girl is such a nuisance. (he jumps to a pilar; Sasuke performs a Tiger handseal; still thinking)
Sasuke: Katon: Gouryuuka no Jutsu!* (the dragon flies towards Danzou)
Danzou: So

zerosameri
01-17-2010, 05:40 PM
thats a pretty soild theory but isn;t their a jutsu juts like that. Durring the Zabuza arc when Haku hit Zabuza in the neck with a needle, he was thought to be dead. Even kakashi though he was dead.

Madara had the EMS at the time when he fout the 1st Haokage and it give the use imortaity depending on the user useing it. So maybe the 1st didn't know that Madara had it, but i don't think the 1st would of saw Madara dead, because the 1st died durring war. And Madara was still alive and known through out the village befor and at the 2nd grat Ninja war. If Madara was saposly dead when he fought the 1st then when Minato was fighting Madara/the Nine-tails wouldn't Minato be serpized bye the fact that he's a live? Madara was consider dead right after the 2nd Great Ninja war, so how could of he been dead when he fought the 1st. (well after that war was over)

-
but like I said thats a good theory.

Deadman 8234
01-17-2010, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE=Nine-TailedSage_Naruto;2263763]hmm nice theory...

though im sure i read this theory in a prediction by Numinious. here's his prediction :

[SPOILER]Status: PREDICTION
by: Numinous

Naruto 479: Momentum Shift

(Madara Scene)
Madara: (thinking) Izanagi, a technique that brings the user back to life with the sacrifice of a Sharingan. Normally, an Uchiha would only be able to use it twice before he was rendered useless. Heck, when I sacrificed my left eye to survive the battle againt Hashirama it took a great toll on my powers

Vatanui AKA Pride
01-17-2010, 06:03 PM
A nice solid theory, man.

toad
01-17-2010, 06:15 PM
thats a pretty soild theory but isn;t their a jutsu juts like that. Durring the Zabuza arc when Haku hit Zabuza in the neck with a needle, he was thought to be dead. Even kakashi though he was dead.

Madara had the EMS at the time when he fout the 1st Haokage and it give the use imortaity depending on the user useing it. So maybe the 1st didn't know that Madara had it, but i don't think the 1st would of saw Madara dead, because the 1st died durring war. And Madara was still alive and known through out the village befor and at the 2nd grat Ninja war. If Madara was saposly dead when he fought the 1st then when Minato was fighting Madara/the Nine-tails wouldn't Minato be serpized bye the fact that he's a live? Madara was consider dead right after the 2nd Great Ninja war, so how could of he been dead when he fought the 1st. (well after that war was over)

-
but like I said thats a good theory.
in the zabuza arc wen he was hit with a needle by haku kakashi knew he wasnt dead becuase as a former anu kakashi knows asassines strikle in vital areas and the neck wasnt and so kakashi saw through haku's deception

Leafy
01-17-2010, 08:00 PM
I like this theory, explains alot

Hidden Ninja45
01-17-2010, 08:17 PM
I thought has Danzo got Izanagi because of something to do with Orochimaru. If that were true, then either Madara couldn't of had Izanagi at that point, or Madara got Izangi some other way.

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 09:10 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.
That's a really nice theory (and one that actually makes sense...you don't see many of those in these forums). I wouldn't be surprised if he did use Izanagi to fool Hashirama. Thanks for posting! :)
Wow did you do this yourself or copy my post on another site from about 2 days ago?:|
What's with claiming ownership on a "theory"? geez it's not like you copyright those and you're not getting paid for it either. He could've come up with that on his own no need to ruin his moment, besides just because you post theories all the time doesn't mean others didn't think of it as well. :|

Yori
01-17-2010, 09:14 PM
That's a really nice theory (and one that actually makes sense...you don't see many of those in these forums). I wouldn't be surprised if he did use Izanagi to fool Hashirama. Thanks for posting! :)

What's with claiming ownership on a "theory"? geez it's not like you copyright those and you're not getting paid for it either. He could've come up with that on his own no need to ruin his moment, besides just because you post theories all the time doesn't mean others didn't think of it as well. :|

Said it all my man

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 09:25 PM
thats a pretty soild theory but isn;t their a jutsu juts like that. Durring the Zabuza arc when Haku hit Zabuza in the neck with a needle, he was thought to be dead. Even kakashi though he was dead.

Madara had the EMS at the time when he fout the 1st Haokage and it give the use imortaity depending on the user useing it. So maybe the 1st didn't know that Madara had it, but i don't think the 1st would of saw Madara dead, because the 1st died durring war. And Madara was still alive and known through out the village befor and at the 2nd grat Ninja war. If Madara was saposly dead when he fought the 1st then when Minato was fighting Madara/the Nine-tails wouldn't Minato be serpized bye the fact that he's a live? Madara was consider dead right after the 2nd Great Ninja war, so how could of he been dead when he fought the 1st. (well after that war was over)

-
but like I said thats a good theory.
We really don't know much about EMS so maybe EMS wasn't the actual reason why Madara survived the fight with Hashirama, he could've used Izanagi or something like that to fool Hashirama into thinking he did die. Because we have little info on EMS and how Madara is still alive we sometimes assume EMS gives immortality but maybe that's not the case.

Minato didn't know it was Madara who attacked Konoha 16 yrs ago using the Kyuubi. He simply knew someone (a masked man) was manipulating the fox and that that someone was stronger/better than him since he kept predicting all of his moves. Even after he saw Madara again through Naruto, Minato still didn't know who he was..he just said the one who wears the mask in Akatsuki. At the same time if he had known, I don't think he would've been that surprised judging by the reaction of Kakashi and Yamato when they found out Madara was still alive.

zerosameri
01-17-2010, 09:56 PM
in the zabuza arc wen he was hit with a needle by haku kakashi knew he wasnt dead becuase as a former anu kakashi knows asassines strikle in vital areas and the neck wasnt and so kakashi saw through haku's deceptionGood point their

We really don't know much about EMS so maybe EMS wasn't the actual reason why Madara survived the fight with Hashirama, he could've used Izanagi or something like that to fool Hashirama into thinking he did die. Because we have little info on EMS and how Madara is still alive we sometimes assume EMS gives immortality but maybe that's not the case.

Minato didn't know it was Madara who attacked Konoha 16 yrs ago using the Kyuubi. He simply knew someone (a masked man) was manipulating the fox and that that someone was stronger/better than him since he kept predicting all of his moves. Even after he saw Madara again through Naruto, Minato still didn't know who he was..he just said the one who wears the mask in Akatsuki. At the same time if he had known, I don't think he would've been that surprised judging by the reaction of Kakashi and Yamato when they found out Madara was still alive.
true though, but Madara live durring the war on that 1st fought in. It never said that Madara died durring that war, all that was said that he left/died, after the 3rd great Ninja War, but at the time the uchiha clan was still alive, and under whatch. So Madara would of been known if he was dead or a live. And Seens he was told to help Itachi kill the clan means the village knew he was a live and not dead.

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 10:33 PM
true though, but Madara live durring the war on that 1st fought in. It never said that Madara died durring that war, all that was said that he left/died, after the 3rd great Ninja War, but at the time the uchiha clan was still alive, and under whatch. So Madara would of been known if he was dead or a live. And Seens he was told to help Itachi kill the clan means the village knew he was a live and not dead.
I have no idea when the 1st and 2nd Ninja wars happened (in terms of timeline) but I know Madara was presumed dead after he fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End. After that no one even considered the possibility of him being alive, that goes for the Uchiha clan as well.

Yes, after Madara used the Kyuubi to attack Konoha 16 yrs ago the Uchiha were put under surveillance but no one knew that the Kyuubi was not a "natural disaster" and that someone was controlling it so in other words no one was thinking of Madara at that moment. The elders just became suspicious of all the Uchiha simply because it was a well known fact that the sharingan could contol the Kyuubi and the sharingan is the Uchiha's Kekkei Genkai. Also, it wasn't Danzou and the elders who asked Madara to help with the massacre...it was Itachi. Danzou's sneaky so he might have known that Madara helped with the massacre but it doesn't mean Sarutobi and the elders knew as well (or at least there's no proof that they knew he was alive).

paiqueen
01-18-2010, 05:14 AM
Anyway, I like this theory.

mrsticky005
01-18-2010, 08:24 AM
I think it's true. I mean Madara was able to recognize it for one thing.

zerosameri
01-18-2010, 11:43 AM
I have no idea when the 1st and 2nd Ninja wars happened (in terms of timeline) but I know Madara was presumed dead after he fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End. After that no one even considered the possibility of him being alive, that goes for the Uchiha clan as well.

Yes, after Madara used the Kyuubi to attack Konoha 16 yrs ago the Uchiha were put under surveillance but no one knew that the Kyuubi was not a "natural disaster" and that someone was controlling it so in other words no one was thinking of Madara at that moment. The elders just became suspicious of all the Uchiha simply because it was a well known fact that the sharingan could contol the Kyuubi and the sharingan is the Uchiha's Kekkei Genkai. Also, it wasn't Danzou and the elders who asked Madara to help with the massacre...it was Itachi. Danzou's sneaky so he might have known that Madara helped with the massacre but it doesn't mean Sarutobi and the elders knew as well (or at least there's no proof that they knew he was alive).
but yes few knew that he was alive, even if it was 1 or 2 people knew. But then it would of been recorded that he was dead and not alive.

Deadman 8234
01-18-2010, 02:25 PM
in the zabuza arc wen he was hit with a needle by haku kakashi knew he wasnt dead becuase as a former anu kakashi knows asassines strikle in vital areas and the neck wasnt and so kakashi saw through haku's deception

Kakashi did not know right away that he wasn't dead. Thats not how he knew Zabuza was still alive.

What really happened was Haku put Zabuza in a momentary death. That's what made Kakashi think that he was dead. Later when he woke up (due to the fatigue of the sharingan) he sensed that something was wrong. He then put the peices tigehter and realized what happened. If he did see through HAku's deception then he would had killed Zabuza (for real) then and there.

Wooster
01-18-2010, 03:27 PM
I am really appreciative of people trying to defend me here, but truly its not necessary. I took V-Valentine comment mostly as a joke, and responded as such. Unfourtanley, it resulted in a snowball of speculation and accusations. So I am sorry if I was a little harsh the second time, I was just trying to stop it as fast as possible. I am really not surprised that other's thought of this theory before, its really a slap-your-forhead "Of, Course" moment, hence Eureka. I was honestly surprised no one had posted it here yet. Though I think I may lay off predictions, they are too troublesome. Okay, I think I have been pretty magnaminous here. No hard feelings to anyone, really.

Back to the theory: I am going to do a complete about-face and reject this theory. Here's why, in the dozen chapters or so Kishmoto has really defied expectations. We all knew what Sakura was going to tell Naruto and that Kisame was going to capture Killerbee. How did that work out? I think Kishimoto is presenting us with a red herring here, this theory is too obvious. As others have stated here, there are probably many ways that Madara could have faked his death.
/adds leaven

zerosameri
01-18-2010, 03:31 PM
I am really appreciative of people trying to defend me here, but truly its not necessary. I took V-Valentine comment mostly as a joke, and responded as such. Unfourtanley, it resulted in a snowball of speculation and accusations. So I am sorry if I was a little harsh the second time, I was just trying to stop it as fast as possible. I am really not surprised that other's thought of this theory before, its really a slap-your-forhead "Of, Course" moment, hence Eureka. I was honestly surprised no one had posted it here yet. Though I think I may lay off predictions, they are too troublesome. Okay, I think I have been pretty magnaminous here. No hard feelings to anyone, really.

Back to the theory: I am going to do a complete about-face and reject this theory. Here's why, in the dozen chapters or so Kishmoto has really defied expectations. We all knew what Sakura was going to tell Naruto and that Kisame was going to capture Killerbee. How did that work out? I think Kishimoto is presenting us with a red herring here, this theory is too obvious. As others have stated here, there are probably many ways that Madara could have faked his death.
but yet so many of the people are just to ingernet to realize that (including me), hence why it works out.

3littlepigs
01-18-2010, 08:29 PM
but yes few knew that he was alive, even if it was 1 or 2 people knew. But then it would of been recorded that he was dead and not alive.
I'm sorry but you lost me there :shock:...I have no idea what we're "debating" anymore. From what I understand you're agreeing with me on everything....
I am really appreciative of people trying to defend me here, but truly its not necessary. I took V-Valentine comment mostly as a joke, and responded as such. Unfourtanley, it resulted in a snowball of speculation and accusations. So I am sorry if I was a little harsh the second time, I was just trying to stop it as fast as possible. I am really not surprised that other's thought of this theory before, its really a slap-your-forhead "Of, Course" moment, hence Eureka. I was honestly surprised no one had posted it here yet. Though I think I may lay off predictions, they are too troublesome. Okay, I think I have been pretty magnaminous here. No hard feelings to anyone, really.

Back to the theory: I am going to do a complete about-face and reject this theory. Here's why, in the dozen chapters or so Kishmoto has really defied expectations. We all knew what Sakura was going to tell Naruto and that Kisame was going to capture Killerbee. How did that work out? I think Kishimoto is presenting us with a red herring here, this theory is too obvious. As others have stated here, there are probably many ways that Madara could have faked his death.
Even if you did take it as a joke to some of us it didn't sound like that. People have to be careful with how they write things...we can't see each other in forums so depending on your writing, well whatever you're trying to say can come across in a way you never intended to (which is why sometimes smilies can help ;)).

Actually I was one of the few who didn't think Kisame would capture Killer Bee (although I didn't think he would die like that either...:shock:). Even if it's really obvious part of it can still turn out to be true, remember when some people were saying Sasuke had a bijuu because of a dark figure that appeared behind him? Well I always said that was just all his negative energy coming out...part of it turned out to be true since it was just his (ugly) Susano'o.
but yet so many of the people are just to ingernet to realize that (including me), hence why it works out.
LOL :p

Wooster
01-19-2010, 04:27 PM
I have further evidence to dispute my own theory. First, when Madara is talking to the Kage he says the wounds inflicted upon him were too great and that caused his lose of power. If Madara used Izanagi his loss of power wouldn't be caused by wounds, but closing of his eye. Second Madara still has his right eye, so he should still have the Amaterasu if his power drop is only due to losing an eye. There's no evidence that Madara has any technique except advanced Kamui skills. Third, he says he will use the Jubi the strengthen his eyes. I would assume he still has both eyes.
/adds leaven

Ur Mom
01-19-2010, 05:52 PM
So wait a minute, NOW YOU'RE GOING AGAINST YOUR OWN THEORY?

deidara330
01-19-2010, 06:43 PM
I have further evidence to dispute my own theory.

Go ahead.

First, when Madara is talking to the Kage he says the wounds inflicted upon him were too great and that caused his lose of power.

No. Exact quote "The wounds inflicted by Shodai Hokage Hashirama were too great... I am now a mere shell of my former self". He never mentions that the wounds created by Hashirama actually caused his loss of power.

If Madara used Izanagi his loss of power wouldn't be caused by wounds, but closing of his eye.

Actually, after activating the jutsu, any fatal wound will revive him, causing one of his Sharingan eyes to close. In a way, the wounds would be an indirect cause of the loss of power.

Second Madara still has his right eye, so he should still have the Amaterasu if his power drop is only due to losing an eye.

This is true, however the loss of an advanced Sharingan eye would cause an inverse effect on the amount of chakra Madara has, and therefore Madara would have less chakra to use the Amaterasu.

There's no evidence that Madara has any technique except advanced Kamui skills.

Is this even Kamui? This could be an entirely different technique altogether. We never learn of the exact location to which Kamui itself would teleport someone.

Third, he says he will use the Jubi the strengthen his eyes. I would assume he still has both eyes.Danzo still technically has all ten of his eyes. He simply cannot use them anymore. They no longer serve any function as eyes, but are still classified as eyes. And it was never truly specified that by using Izanagi, the user loses the eye forever (or at least not to my knowledge). Madara could simply regain the use of his eye from the massive chakra flow of the Juubi.
So wait a minute, NOW YOU'RE GOING AGAINST YOUR OWN THEORY?It offers you a certain level of challenge and takes a decent amount of skill to rebuke your own theory. I don't blame him.

Wooster
01-19-2010, 07:19 PM
Danzo still technically has all ten of his eyes. He simply cannot use them anymore. They no longer serve any function as eyes, but are still classified as eyes. And it was never truly specified that by using Izanagi, the user loses the eye forever (or at least not to my knowledge). Madara could simply regain the use of his eye from the massive chakra flow of the Juubi.
Bah! Your arguments are pretty good. I guess, I will use my remaining weak argument. Madara seems to imply he will strengthen both eyes implying both are weakened. That's all I got for now, but I will search for more.
It offers you a certain level of challenge and takes a decent amount of skill to rebuke your own theory. I don't blame him.
It is quite challenging. Not to mention personally I really want this theory to die now.

3littlepigs
01-19-2010, 10:31 PM
I have further evidence to dispute my own theory. First, when Madara is talking to the Kage he says the wounds inflicted upon him were too great and that caused his lose of power. If Madara used Izanagi his loss of power wouldn't be caused by wounds, but closing of his eye. Second Madara still has his right eye, so he should still have the Amaterasu if his power drop is only due to losing an eye. There's no evidence that Madara has any technique except advanced Kamui skills. Third, he says he will use the Jubi the strengthen his eyes. I would assume he still has both eyes.
LOL:p this is weird...you're going against your own theory!
Anyway the Uchiha were extremely powerful because of their eyes so losing one eye would cut his power in half (almost), especially since he already had EMS so by saying the wounds inflicted on him were too great he could mean he had to use Izanagi (or something like that) and so lose one of his sharingan. There's no proof that Madara even has Amaterasu...that was Itachi's MS.

Well in japanese there's really no plural so the translation can say "eyes" but he could be referring to just "one eye".

valtreck
01-20-2010, 07:42 AM
^^you're right

uzumakisgirl
01-20-2010, 07:47 AM
nice theory :D

Wooster
01-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Well, Chapter 479 confirmed the Izanagi causes the lose of Sharingan as its used. So this point would strengthen the proposed theory. However, Madara has yet to state that he used it, and given how much he thought about Izanagi in this chapter you would think he would compare it to when he used it. So I gain at least one point in my campaign to disprove the theory. I think if this theory is true it would have to be revealed soon. So every week that passes, it becomes less and less likely.

Also, another point, Madara's Sharingan is always active and we never see his MS. Both Sasuke and Itachi were able to deactivate their Sharingan. Kakashi and Danzo apparently cannot and so must keep theirs covered. That Madara Sharingan is always activate suggest its not his original or something else is wrong with it, so the problem is not just his left eye.

Yondaime jinchuuriki
01-20-2010, 06:22 PM
Totally that is how he pulled it off

Final Valley
01-20-2010, 08:40 PM
That's a very logical opinion... I agree with it, Madara is wearing a mask for a reason... and that might be it!:D

Deadman 8234
01-20-2010, 08:43 PM
Well, Chapter 479 confirmed the Izanagi causes the lose of Sharingan as its used. So this point would strengthen the proposed theory. However, Madara has yet to state that he used it, and given how much he thought about Izanagi in this chapter you would think he would compare it to when he used it. So I gain at least one point in my campaign to disprove the theory. I think if this theory is true it would have to be revealed soon. So every week that passes, it becomes less and less likely.

Also, another point, Madara's Sharingan is always active and we never see his MS. Both Sasuke and Itachi were able to deactivate their Sharingan. Kakashi and Danzo apparently cannot and so must keep theirs covered. That Madara Sharingan is always activate suggest its not his original or something else is wrong with it, so the problem is not just his left eye.

Now that I think of it, al of the natural sharingan users have the ability to activate/deactivate it. But since madara's is always active do you think that it is like Itachis and decides to keep it activated all the time, or do you think that it is not his natural eye. If not than wouldn't he keep it covered like Kakashi and Danzo instead of having it revealed.?

3littlepigs
01-20-2010, 09:24 PM
Now that I think of it, al of the natural sharingan users have the ability to activate/deactivate it. But since madara's is always active do you think that it is like Itachis and decides to keep it activated all the time, or do you think that it is not his natural eye. If not than wouldn't he keep it covered like Kakashi and Danzo instead of having it revealed.?
I don't think it's always activated...otherwise people like Kisame and Deidara would've noticed he had it from the beginning. Also if I remember correctly when he stopped Naruto and co from getting to Sasuke while he was fighting Itachi, he only activated his sharingan at the end when he said good bye.:|

Wooster
01-21-2010, 05:22 PM
I don't think it's always activated...otherwise people like Kisame and Deidara would've noticed he had it from the beginning. Also if I remember correctly when he stopped Naruto and co from getting to Sasuke while he was fighting Itachi, he only activated his sharingan at the end when he said good bye.:|
I don't know about that. We have never seen Madara's eye when its not activated. That also doesn't mean every one would see it, he is wearing a mask.
Kakashi noticed the Sharingan before Madara left, whether Madara just activated the Sharingan then isn't certain.

3littlepigs
01-21-2010, 09:27 PM
I don't know about that. We have never seen Madara's eye when its not activated. That also doesn't mean every one would see it, he is wearing a mask.
Kakashi noticed the Sharingan before Madara left, whether Madara just activated the Sharingan then isn't certain.
He is wearing a mask but just like Kakashi saw his sharingan at that distance I'm sure others like Deidara (who was always close to Tobi) would've noticed a sharingan through the mask...I mean it's really red! lol :p I'm just thinking logically and I really doubt all the Akatsuki members who didn't know about Madara never noticed Tobi had a sharingan if it was always activated.

Wooster
01-22-2010, 06:46 AM
He is wearing a mask but just like Kakashi saw his sharingan at that distance I'm sure others like Deidara (who was always close to Tobi) would've noticed a sharingan through the mask...I mean it's really red! lol :p I'm just thinking logically and I really doubt all the Akatsuki members who didn't know about Madara never noticed Tobi had a sharingan if it was always activated.
Well not to get too technical, but it doesn't matter how red the Sharingan is, it matters how much light gets into the mask and thus reflects to the viewer's(Deidara etc.) eye. Only Kakashi noticed the Sharingan of the Konoha ninja, so it must not be too obvious. But I will agree this is a very weak point.

I found one other interesting point. When Madara is telling the story about fighting the first Hokage, a close-up of his face is shown. His left is his EMS, no problem there, and his right eye is covered with his hair so its not visible. However, there is a large gob of blood coming down from it. Its very likely that this eye may have been destroyed in the battle. So it could be that his eyes was damaged, and he lost the EMS.

To be fair, I should also point out a few panels later, there is a silhouette of Madara with a large sword stuck through him. This would obviously be a good time to use the Izanagi, and as far as we know he has at least one eye left.
/adds yeast

3littlepigs
01-22-2010, 08:17 AM
Well not to get too technical, but it doesn't matter how red the Sharingan is, it matters how much light gets into the mask and thus reflects to the viewer's(Deidara etc.) eye. Only Kakashi noticed the Sharingan of the Konoha ninja, so it must not be too obvious. But I will agree this is a very weak point.

I found one other interesting point. When Madara is telling the story about fighting the first Hokage, a close-up of his face is shown. His left is his EMS, no problem there, and his right eye is covered with his hair so its not visible. However, there is a large gob of blood coming down from it. Its very likely that this eye may have been destroyed in the battle. So it could be that his eyes was damaged, and he lost the EMS.


To be fair, I should also point out a few panels later, there is a silhouette of Madara with a large sword stuck through him. This would obviously be a good time to use the Izanagi, and as far as we know he has at least one eye left.

Ok if it's the light then it's just very convenient light since it happens only when Madara wants others to see his sharingan. Maybe I'm wrong but didn't all of the Konoha shinobi recognize the sharingan? I know Kakashi was the first but I thought all of them saw it.

I tried looking for the image but I could only find the one where the sword pierced him.

That image I've discussed before and now that we know about Izanagi it makes sense he used a technique like that. Hashirama wasn't a fool, I'm sure he went and made sure Madara was "dead" so whatever technique Madara used to appear dead was powerful enough to fool Hashirama.

Wooster
01-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Ok if it's the light then it's just very convenient light since it happens only when Madara wants others to see his sharingan. Maybe I'm wrong but didn't all of the Konoha shinobi recognize the sharingan? I know Kakashi was the first but I thought all of them saw it.
I am just saying Madara's eye may be heavily shadowed, so would you need a keen eye to see the Sharingan, like Kakashi. Whether all the other Konoha ninja saw it, who knows its not really explicit.

I tried looking for the image but I could only find the one where the sword pierced him.
Its only the page before, and I think you found it:
I replied to this on your thread but I couldn't find that image...or maybe it's the same one but I only see blood coming out of his mouth not his eye.
If this is the two page spread with the First on the other side. It's not the greatest drawing in the world, but if you look at the corner of his right eye(i.e. the one covered by his hair) you show see blood coming down.

3littlepigs
01-22-2010, 06:11 PM
If this is the two page spread with the First on the other side. It's not the greatest drawing in the world, but if you look at the corner of his right eye(i.e. the one covered by his hair) you show see blood coming down.

Ok so it is the same image we're looking at only I don't see blood...I only see his hair covering his right eye. I suppose we just perceive it differently :shock:

mrsticky005
01-22-2010, 06:46 PM
Ok so it is the same image we're looking at only I don't see blood...I only see his hair covering his right eye. I suppose we just perceive it differently :shock:

You might be looking at a bad scan or something because there's definitely blood there. It's the one where Madara is screaming.

InuyashaGirl
01-22-2010, 10:02 PM
umm about him closing his sharingan eye
we dont know alot about his ems
so maybe u have to keep it activated
and like stated b4 itachi always had it on

i do belive the inzangi or however u spell it was the reason madara survived
which would make plenty of sense
i forgot what chapter we seen madaras face but doesnt he look kinda old compared to when he was young with his brother or fighting the first
i think that losing one of his eyes weakend his enternalnessness
hes probably going through time slower than everyone like every 5 or four years is like one year to his age

off topic side thought
about danzou knowing about izangi
isnt it supposed to be written on that tablet where u need all 3 eyes
he has the sharingan and he could have had a root hyugga member
but how was the portion of the that has to be read by a rinningan user?? how did that work out??

another side off topic note

i think eternal mangekyo sharingan is just the combination of using tsukuyomi and izangi
since tsukuyomi can distort time and izangi allows u to escape death and its cast on utself the combination would make u emortall???

3littlepigs
01-23-2010, 08:52 PM
You might be looking at a bad scan or something because there's definitely blood there. It's the one where Madara is screaming.
Ok then...I still don't see any blood but let's leave it at that.;)

sharingandeamon24
01-24-2010, 01:43 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.

good theory but remember what happens to the person who uses izanagi. there eyes close for ever not to open again so how is he still using sharingan. the only thing i can think of is him using izanagi with one eye thats why his mask shows one eye and he only uses that sharingan eye

iNerdy
01-24-2010, 01:50 PM
LOL really nice theory and as Madara said "The User can take disadvantages like wounds or even death and turn them into nothing more than a dream." so it seems like Madara knows a lot about this so yea i think its pretty true your theory. But im wondering is why his left eye? Isnt the left eye used for amaterasu?

Deadman 8234
01-28-2010, 05:10 PM
I've been thinking since I started watching Naruto on Disney XD. Well more like imagining.

Anyways I know this might not make sense, but bare with me.

Has anyone noticed the sealing jutsu nine phantom dragons statue thing with the opening of eyes with the concealment of a tailed beast. What if in some wieerd twisted Kishi way it had something to danzo's many sharingans or Izanagis possibly. I was looking at it and for some reason his face kept popping in my head. I just thought I should put it out there.

assassin
01-28-2010, 05:12 PM
you're a genius...great theory...

Wooster
01-28-2010, 05:43 PM
I've been thinking since I started watching Naruto on Disney XD. Well more like imagining.

Anyways I know this might not make sense, but bare with me.

Has anyone noticed the sealing jutsu nine phantom dragons statue thing with the opening of eyes with the concealment of a tailed beast. What if in some wieerd twisted Kishi way it had something to danzo's many sharingans or Izanagis possibly. I was looking at it and for some reason his face kept popping in my head. I just thought I should put it out there.
Umm...I don't really see it, but I guess anything is possible. The Gedo statue is more of a Rinnegan thing, but it's somewhat related to the Sharingan.
/adds potassium bitartrate

Deadman 8234
01-28-2010, 05:47 PM
Umm...I don't really see it, but I guess anything is possible. The Gedo statue is more of a Rinnegan thing, but it's somewhat related to the Sharingan.

Ok I was just hoping I wasn't the o only person who considered the thought XD lol.

ShippudenGirl
01-28-2010, 06:19 PM
My Thoughts:

Danzou got his Izanagi supposively from Orochimaru because Orochimaru worked for him, maybe in return have a Uchiha body, but couldn't get it so used Sasuke; Sasuke betrayed Orochimaru, maybe Madara predicted this since Zetsu recorded the Sasuke vs Naruto fight at the final valley. Madara has his brothers eyes so I don't know if Izanagi could make it lose its light, maybe; but how would he have so much power just from one Sharingan eye to control the Nine-Tailed Fox? That's what's getting me, timing. If Madara used Izanagi after he fought the First Hokage, then he lost one of his Sharingans then I don't think he would beable to control the Nine-Tails; but also you don't know if the other eye has no light and is closed maybe it could be the opposite, though I doubt it, a super-charged Sharingan?
I don't know if this helps but...

In the cleansing rite after his return, he begot Amaterasu (the sun goddess) from his left eye, Tsukuyomi (the moon god) from his right eye and Susanoo (tempest or stormgod) from his nose

Susano'o is the brother of Amaterasu, the goddess of the sun, and of Tsukuyomi, the god of the moon

Amaterasu was born when Izanagi washed out his left eye
Tsukuyomi was born from the washing of the right eye
- Source: Wikipedia

I just did a little research and thought maybe some Japanese legands could help with this figuring out Madara thing ^^ I highlighted the important stuff. Kishimoto-sama loves to use Mythology with this, but who know what the heck'll happen? Hope I didn't make this to confusing O_e'

Wooster
01-29-2010, 06:06 AM
My Thoughts:

Danzou got his Izanagi supposively from Orochimaru because Orochimaru worked for him, maybe in return have a Uchiha body, but couldn't get it so used Sasuke; Sasuke betrayed Orochimaru, maybe Madara predicted this since Zetsu recorded the Sasuke vs Naruto fight at the final valley. Madara has his brothers eyes so I don't know if Izanagi could make it lose its light, maybe; but how would he have so much power just from one Sharingan eye to control the Nine-Tailed Fox? That's what's getting me, timing. If Madara used Izanagi after he fought the First Hokage, then he lost one of his Sharingans then I don't think he would beable to control the Nine-Tails; but also you don't know if the other eye has no light and is closed maybe it could be the opposite, though I doubt it, a super-charged Sharingan?
I don't know if this helps but...

In the cleansing rite after his return, he begot Amaterasu (the sun goddess) from his left eye, Tsukuyomi (the moon god) from his right eye and Susanoo (tempest or stormgod) from his nose

Susano'o is the brother of Amaterasu, the goddess of the sun, and of Tsukuyomi, the god of the moon

Amaterasu was born when Izanagi washed out his left eye
Tsukuyomi was born from the washing of the right eye
- Source: Wikipedia

I just did a little research and thought maybe some Japanese legands could help with this figuring out Madara thing ^^ I highlighted the important stuff. Kishimoto-sama loves to use Mythology with this, but who know what the heck'll happen? Hope I didn't make this to confusing O_e'
Well, I think your right that if Madara use the Izanagi during the fight with first Hokage, he can't control Nine-Tailed Fox anymore. Then Madara would need Pain to control it and now that Pain is dead, Sasuke. Also, according to Madara, Izanagi closes any eye, that's why it's forbidden even amoung the Uchiha. It's not exactly the same as slowly losing your light, it's just completely closed.

Of course, I have now rejected this theory. Madara has been thinking about the Izanagi for a while now. You'd think that if he used it before, Madara would have mentioned it by now.

slyfoxx
01-29-2010, 06:52 AM
I think ist a great theory on how he survived the fight with the first.But to be alive, he is still atleast a hundred years old.

Darkness Madara
01-29-2010, 07:37 AM
That's a really good theory.

Wooster
01-29-2010, 04:23 PM
I think ist a great theory on how he survived the fight with the first.But to be alive, he is still atleast a hundred years old.
Well, it's not like we haven't seen that before, the most notably example is Kakuzu. I don't know, if Madara can warp through space, maybe he can jump forward in time.

Wooster
04-10-2010, 04:02 PM
Bumpage because this may be important. I still disagree with myself though. Madara never used Izanagi.
/adds pearlash

mrsticky005
04-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Bumpage because this may be important. I still disagree with myself though. Madara never used Izanagi.

Then perhaps Madara saw someone else use it?
He seemed to recognize the technique right away.

Wooster
04-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Then perhaps Madara saw someone else use it?
He seemed to recognize the technique right away.
Well he is one hundred some years old and lived through at least two great ninja wars, so that's very possible.

mrsticky005
04-10-2010, 05:05 PM
Well he is one hundred some years old and lived through at least two great ninja wars, so that's very possible.

Yep.


Though do you think Madara CAUSED those 3 wars?

Wooster
04-10-2010, 05:11 PM
Probbaly not early ones he was trying to protect the Uchiha clan then. However, the third ninja war that's an interesting idea. The one that built distrust between the nations and right before the Nine Tails weaken the greatest remaining ninja village.

mrsticky005
04-10-2010, 05:24 PM
Probbaly not early ones he was trying to protect the Uchiha clan then. However, the third ninja war that's an interesting idea. The one that built distrust between the nations and right before the Nine Tails weaken the greatest remaining ninja village.


Ok, so you don't think Madara will be like

Madara "And I caused ALL 3 WARS AND SOON I SHALL WIN THE 4TH WAR!"

Shino "Bummer, man"

Madara "That's not all! I'm the reason people die in the first place, why Naruto isn't on Cartoon Network, and why Stella will NEVER get her Groove back."

Raikage "STELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLA!!!!"

MinatoUchiha
04-10-2010, 06:08 PM
very possible theory i think

Wooster
04-10-2010, 06:44 PM
very possible theory i think
I think it's wrong. Wooster you are an idiot. Yeah I said it, down-rep if you want you pansy.

Black Shuck
04-11-2010, 12:02 AM
makes sense.

dillydally
04-12-2010, 11:31 PM
Very solid theory, good job. This may very well be true.

tyler
04-13-2010, 09:25 AM
What about Zetsu? Could Zetsu have played a roll in helping Madara survive the fight? We don't know when he was born correct? So that is another possibility. Besides, Zetsu said to Madara "these plans have been in motion for a very long time" which implies that they have been working together for "a very long time".

Although, I did say this a while back in a theory, Madara uses Izangi like it's goin out of style. He keeps his left eye with Kumi technique visible and his hidden eye is the one he uses for Izangi. He does have a store house of sharingan.

RokubiRaikage
04-13-2010, 08:00 PM
One of the remaining mysteries about Madara is how he survived his fight with the first Hokage. Even the first Hokage though he was dead, so I assume he saw Madara's dead body. So how did Madara pull this off.

I think the last few chapters have answered this question: Izanagi. When Danzo uses the Izanagi not only is a dead body left, but even Karin believes Danzo has died momentarily, and Karin is apparently the best sensor in the ninja world.

What better way for Madara to escape a losing battle than to pretend to have died. Of course, what we have seen with the Izanagi is that it 'closes' a Sharingan eye. This probably means it is lost. This is the reason why Madara wears his one eye mask, his other eye has been closed. Even with EMS, without both eyes Madara would lose much of his powers, at least two of the MS jutsu. Madara knows this jutsu and while he says its forbidden, I am sure he wouldn't be opposed to use a forbidden jutsu.

Hmm..nice theory, that sounds pretty damn logical

Madara Fanboy
04-13-2010, 08:23 PM
Databook 3 states madara used a certain jutsu that only he alone knows.

So izanagi is irrelevant.

Wooster
04-14-2010, 04:59 AM
I don't know if I should be happy people still like this theory I made long ago, or annoyed that so many disagree with me.
/adds yeast

mrsticky005
04-14-2010, 05:16 AM
I don't know if I should be happy people still like this theory I made long ago, or annoyed that so many disagree with me.

Your brilliance has worked against you.

Wooster
04-14-2010, 09:23 AM
Your brilliance has worked against you.
/adds potash

Yeah that always happens. How do you think I wound up at graduate school? There goes twenty years of life expectancy.

mrsticky005
04-14-2010, 09:24 AM
/adds potash

Yeah that always happens. How do you think I wound up at graduate school? There goes twenty years of life expectancy.

Monkeys and Slapdash?

Space Cowboy Sasori
08-22-2010, 07:12 PM
Lol good theory.

Err
08-22-2010, 09:52 PM
I like this theory Wooster. I see one problem though. I don't know of this has been mentioned but I'll say it anyways. What's to stop Madara from just using another Sharigan for his right eye? There would be no need to cover his right eye.

Wooster
08-23-2010, 04:08 AM
Maybe he just likes the one eye look?

At the time I made this theory, I don't think we knew that Madara had a stock pile of eyes laying around. Also, I eventually came out against my own theory. :lol:

Zemirock
08-23-2010, 04:53 AM
It's possible

Kiseki
08-23-2010, 05:16 AM
Wooster, this is one of your best moments so far! / claps hands
I never thought about it, why he only shows one eye.
Thanks to Sasuke's impatience and anger we haven't seen his face yet. :|
Because we could have seen it if Sasuke wasn't such a bomb of anger.

Rasen_Chidori
08-23-2010, 05:19 AM
Madara only shows one eye because he secretly wanted to be a pirate......

Kiseki
08-23-2010, 05:37 AM
Madara only shows one eye because he secretly wanted to be a pirate......
Wel he sure is acting like "I got a jar of dirt, and guess what's inside it!"
/ pretends he does the happy Tobi act meanwhile
Makes perfect sence, he is Jack's reincarnation in anime style.

Jakropha
08-23-2010, 05:52 AM
Nice theory :D

Repfoyu