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Wooster
01-16-2010, 08:15 AM
What you can’t believe someone would actually defend Danzo’s actions. Well, yes and no. I am going to defend some of Danzo’s point of view, but mainly defend his place as one of the more interesting antagonist to Naruto. Some claim Danzo is completely evil, which is not true, he his absolutely ruthless, but his goal is to defend Konoha. Others have a feeling that they like Danzo, which is certainly a fine view to have, but they put forth arguments that he will change to good guy. This will not happen Danzo is Danzo, and he will always be the way he is now. So what follows is my defense, sorry if came out much longer than I intended which at first was only going to related to recent events. I have divided it into sections that you can chose to read as you like. Also be warned, there are spoilers up to Chapter 478.

So what is Danzo, he is the absolute perfection of the old shinobi way. He completely removes emotion from his actions and does whatever is necessary to protect Konoha and the land of fire. This point of view has been shown many times from Zabuza to Granny Chiyo. But whereas Zabuza and others get a thrill from killing, Danzo kills when it is necessary to further his goals. So lets see how this attitude affects his actions in few case where people think he is evil.

Hokage Power Struggle

The first thing we learn about Danzo is that he doesn’t like the leadership style of Konoha, particularly the third Hokage and Tsunade. Now these characters are the protagonists, so Danzo is in opposition to the sympathy of the reader. However, Danzo’s reasons are not really that he desires power, but that he thinks the previous Hokage are poor leaders. In fact many of the other Kage in other lands that we know of are mostly like Danzo. The previous Mizukage were Madara or under his control and used harsh training style to kill emotions. The Kazekage used his own son to seal in Shukaku. However, Konoha is different, but they are the exception.

The question then is did the kind of leadership of the Hokage lead to problems, in many cases it did. In the third Hokage’s case Orochimaru experimented on fellow shinobi, and when he was found he fled. It was the third Hokage’s hesitation that allowed Orochimaru to live. Even Sarutobi himself realizes this mistake. The result of this hesitation is an international criminal on the loose. In Tsunade case, Sasuke was allowed to stay at large and has now become a threat to every nation. We also know the Third Great Ninja War started during the reign of the third Hokage, but we don’t have much details on this.

These reasons make Danzo doubtful of the Hokage leadership style, and he certainly is right that awful things have occurred. His emotionlessness and ruthlessness would certainly have result in different events with some of worst crimes of the day never happening. So we can understand Danzo’s desire to be Hokage not so much because he wants power and recognition, but because he believes he would be better. It is also worth while to mention that Danzo is proud that he is not well known and likes to operate behind the scenes. In otherwords, he is not in pursuit of self gratification.

Uchiha Massacre

One reason many hate Danzo is because of his role in the Uchiha massacre, and it certainly was a gruesome event. But the alternatives would most certainly have been worse. The attack of the Ninetails precipitated the destructive of the Uchiha clan. At least according to Minato, who probably is the most trustworthy, Madara caused this to happen. He mostly likely planned to split the Uchiha of from the rest of Konoha. Whatever the case, we know the Uchiha clan was preparing to at least take over Konoha, and this coup–de-tat would have resulted in many deaths.

At the time, the third Hokage wanted to negotiate, but was apparently overruled by his advisors and Danzo. It is interesting that the Third did not get his way, perhaps his failure with Orochimaru led to greater leeway being given to Danzo. It is also important to note that Itachi was the spy, so information regarding the Uchiha was very accurate and Itachi himself decided that he would massacre the entire clan. It may have been gruesome, but it is clear that most of the Uchiha were quite dangerous.

It also important to note, as we have seen recently, that Danzo seems to have a lot of respect for the fact that Itachi sacrificed himself for the good of the village. In particular, Itachi allowed himself to be viewed as a criminal. Danzo’s only disappointment is that he thinks Itachi revealed the true plot to Sasuke, which of course was actually due to Madara.

Betrayal after Betrayal, Scheme after Scheme

Danzo has certainly been involved in a lot of hidden schemes that are certainly shocking. Lets go through some of these to at least consider Danzo’s reasoning.

During the Third Great Ninja War, Danzo teamed up Hanzo and betrayed Yahiko and Nagato’s band of ninja resulting in Yahiko death. This betrayal was certainly important in Pain’s creation, however it was a pretty reasonable action on Danzo’s part. The war had continued for many years, no doubt Danzo blamed the current Hokage, so he formed an alliance with a very strong shinobi Hanzo. If Hanzo wanted help to remove a troublesome uprising in his country, Danzo probably thought that was a fair deal. We don’t the final result of this alliance, but it least seems a reasonable action to end a drawn out war.

Danzo also seemed to betray the Konoha to Orochimaru to become Hokage. However, his actual goal was to kill Sasuke. Now that nearly everyone except Naruto believes Sasuke should be killed, we can say that Danzo was just thinking ahead of everyone else. It also true that Danzo used Tsunade personal ANBU members to gain Orochimaru’s trust, but from his point of view damaging a weak Hokage is not a bad thing if this causes a stronger Hokage to be installed.

Danzo also killed the messenger frog that was going to bring Naruto back during the Pain invasion. First of all he only kill a frog, a talking frog no doubt, but still a frog. His reason for his action was because he did not want Pain to get the nine-tailed fox. The advisors again agreed with him, but Tsunade overwrote their wished. Tsunade did this because she believes in Naruto. Danzo does care about Naruto, but want to keep the ninetails safe. He did not try to fight Pain, but stayed hidden. He believed that Tsunade would save the life of most of the villagers. As it turned, he was right. If the rest of the village retreated as well more lives may not have been lost. Of course in the end it didn’t matter because Naruto convinced Pain to bring everyone back to life.

Danzo recently used Shisui’s Sharingan to try and control the Gokage summit. It is true this was devious, but from Danzo’s perspective the other Kage were not trustworthy, and his goal was to protect the ninja world from the Akatsuki and Madara.

Danzo’s Powers, Orochimaru, and Controlling the Ninetails

Recently we have learned that Danzo has many powers: Shisui’s Sharingan, an arm full of Sharingan and the First Hokage’s powers. Apparently, he is going to use all these to control Naruto/ninetails, and he got all these powers from Orochimaru, ‘Oh No’ Danzo’s evil. Well, hold on a minute, let’s examine this first.

First, Orochimaru use to be a Konoha shinobi so there is little evidence that Danzo was ever involved with the Akatuski. We know Orochimaru had experiments with the First’s DNA before he left the village. Danzo has somehow benefited from these experiments, which likely means he knew they were occurring. This is pretty disgusting that he allow these experiments, but unlike Orochimaru who was obsessed with finding all the jutsu of the world Danzo made this sacrifice similar to other Kage.

At some point Danzo added Sharingan to his arm, but it is unlikely that Orochimaru was involved. Danzo most likely got these Sharingan after the Uchiha massacre, where else would he get so many. The question is did he contact Orochimaru, not very likely. Orochimaru was obsessed with Sharingan, if Danzo brought Sharingan to him, Orochimaru most certainly would have kept some for himself. Why would he only give them to Danzo? After the massacre, the only available Sharinagan were Itachi’ and Sasuke’s. That is why Orochimaru was obsessed with being one of them.

With the First’s DNA in this arm. Someone else must have been able to graft the Sharingan into it. Implanting Shisui’s eye must have been straight forward as we’ve seen it can even be done in the battle field.

Madara thinks that Danzo is going to use the First’s power and the Sharingan to control the ninetails, this is probably true. From Danzo’s perspective this makes perfect sense. He saw the destruction the nine-tailed fox caused to the leaf village. He certainly does not want another nation to get their hands on this power. He probably was quite pleased that Minato sealed the power in Naruto. However, he also knows the Uchiha are dangerous, so he had them killed. He doesn’t want the Uchiha to control the ninetails, from his perspective they are probably emotional nutcases, but he also believes it needs to be controlled. Since he already has the First’s power, he probably believed if he also had the Sharingan he would be the best able to control it.

The Future of Danzo

Given all these facts, should we be rooting for Danzo? No, of course not. He will always be in opposition to Naruto and, if his wishes were completely carried out, he would probably kill Naruto. Danzo’s view is that of the old Shinobi way that peace is only brought about through the strength of the village and its ninja, preferable those with little emotion who don’t go on killing sprees because of revenge. Naruto is trying to find a new a path towards peace that was started by Jiraiya. We as readers should be rooting that Naruto succeeds.

Does that mean you should not like Danzo? No, go ahead and cheer for him when he completely dismisses Sasuke path. Right now Sasuke is nothing compared to Itachi, Danzo is right. Danzo and Naruto agree on the point of the meaninglessness of revenge. If you like watching Danzo smack Sasuke around enjoy that too. Do you love to hate Danzo? That’s fine as well. Danzo is certain to be an implacable enemy to Naruto. He is ruthless, clever, and knows when to retreat. In many ways he is like Madara, but he does not want to rule the world. Like Pain he wants peace in his own way, but instead of making everyone understand suffering, he wants to remove emotion that lead to pointless conflicts. But don’t needless despise Danzo and wish for his quick removal from this story. He is certainly going to be one of most interesting characters in the future.

What is the best we well wishers can hope for Danzo’s future, certainly not that he succeeds and Danzo's beliefs will never allow him to change. The best is that Danzo will lose to Naruto and realizes he has been bested. Perhaps he will tip his hat to the superior strength and drive of Naruto and return to his plotting in the darkness. Perhaps as he leaves we will just catch his last words: Old Shinobi never die, they just fade away.

Edit: An "Appendix" added on page 2 regarding Danzo's Death.

ECW Original
01-16-2010, 08:16 AM
.............?

Wooster
01-16-2010, 08:18 AM
Sorry about that the text isn't coming through. I am working on it.

3littlepigs
01-16-2010, 11:00 AM
First how long did it take you to write all of that? :shock: second just a few things I want to say about your post:

While I agree that he truly believes anything and everything he's doing is for Konoha's sake just the fact that he considers himself to be worthy and better is proof that he is in pursuit of self gratification and part of him is doing what he's doing because of his ego.
It's funny how he respects Itachi for sacrificing himself for Konoha but he won't even put himself in danger or try to sacrifice himself for the sake of anyone. I can still see him underground with all the members of ROOT just waiting until Pain was done destroying the village. He doesn't even have the guts to challenge Tsunade instead he waits for her to die on her own...such a coward.:roll:
Now with this I can agree...Sasuke is a danger so killing him was a decision long overdue. The ANBU part was just disgusting I don't care what the goal was putting in danger all those shinobi without even caring is not how a true leader would act.
I was discussing this with someone else in another site and here's another "theory" as to why he killed the frog. Now we know Danzou really wants the Kyuubi (for his own power or to "protect" Konoha) either way he has no way of extracting the Bijuu from Naruto. Right now Madara can but only because of Gedo Mazou, Danzou's not stupid so I'm sure he knew Pa and Naruto would eventually realize something was wrong in Konoha had he killed the messenger frog or not. Now let's assume he knew that, then he killed the Frog knowing Naruto would arrive anyway just not as fast but by killing the frog he allowed Pain to completely destroy the village which he knew would only make Naruto even more angry. Since Danzou has no way of extracting the Bijuu the only way for him to get his hand on the Kyuubi is if Naruto releases the seal which would've happened had Minato not interfered.
Like you said we can't expect Danzou to change but we also don't have to like him /support him. As for me right now I'm really enjoying him kicking Sasuke's butt and I couldn't agree more with everything he told Sasuke. Even Sasuke knows it's true that's why it hurts...usually he just gets rid of people that tell him the truth straight to his face but he hasn't been able to get rid of Danzou yet lol :D

ShippudenGirl
01-16-2010, 11:08 AM
I am definitely NOT a Danzou fan but... [Do NOT read if you didn't read 478]

-He does wanna defend Konoha
*Argument: Wants to make Konoha how he wants it
-He wants to make sure Madara doesn't get the tailed beast
*Arguement: But wants to see Naruto dead thats why he got Shodia's cells to control Kyuubi
-He wants Sasuke dead
*Argument: Naruto would be crushed but...
-It would save Konoha if he kills Sasuke and/or Madara
-He saved Konoha before, because the Uchiha's want to take over Konoha but he had them killed by Itachi
[Updated on Manga]

deidara330
01-16-2010, 11:39 AM
Before I read your post, I already knew that Danzo's actions were to defend the village. I knew he didn't do anything for his own personal gain, and that he steeled his emotions to do what he thought he had to do. But that's exaactly his problem. In most of these situations, if he had merely had a little trust in Naruto, Nagato, Sarutobi, or some other guy, a better solution could've been found. I disagree with the above posts, he has done nothing for his own self-gratification. In fact, he does everything for the good of the village and it's people. His problem isn't that he wants all the power, his problem is that he thinks he's the only one who can use the power properly. He implanted Sharingan into his right eye and right arm, and implanted enough of Hashirama's cells to make an entire face on his shoulder. He wastes tons of chakra in his fight trying to kill Sasuke. He alters his own body to such extremes, IMO, because he believes he's the only one who can lead the Leaf Village to an era of peace. He trusts only himself, and he doesn't rely on anyone else, or depend on anyone else. He's alone. He's too extreme in his beliefs about Shinobi, which leads him to do immoral things, such as killing a frog summon and allowing countless Leaf Villagers to die. He didn't allow Sarutobi to negotiate with the Uchiha because he believed it was impossible, and he didn't have any faith that Sarutobi could stop the tragedy. Moreover, if he had known the Ninetails was under the control of an Uchiha, he would've wanted to kill the Uchiha. He wouldn't want anyone else to have access to such a power, as he would believe he's the only one who can be trusted not to misuse that power. He does what he does to achieve his goals because he thinks that there's no other way. His trust in ROOT is mock trust. He uses them, and doesn't consider them anything more than sacrifices to reach his goal. Fuu and Torune were captured by Madara. He likely knew that would happen, but rather than retreat, he sent out Fuu and Torune and prepared himself for battle. He sacrificed them, believing that in doing so he would buy himself the time to discover Madara's secrets and kill Madara. I imagine all of his beliefs can be traced back to some backstory where he trusts people and their emotions get in the way and they let him down.

Wooster
01-16-2010, 12:57 PM
First how long did it take you to write all of that? :shock: second just a few things I want to say about your post:


Yeah it was much longer than I wanted. How long did take me to write? maybe about an hour. But after writing a few hundred page thesis that was nothing.

While I agree that he truly believes anything and everything he's doing is for Konoha's sake just the fact that he considers himself to be worthy and better is proof that he is in pursuit of self gratification and part of him is doing what he's doing because of his ego.

I guess I disagree with this point the most. There are two major reason why he considers himself better, Orochimaru and Sasuke. He really believes the other Hokage have screwed up. Also, when he was attacked by the ninja on the way to summit he was proud that before others didn't know who he was. I think if there was a Hokage that he agreed with, he would have no problem giving them the power.

His problem isn't that he wants all the power, his problem is that he thinks he's the only one who can use the power properly.


I think you are at least partial right here. Of course part of the reason he thinks he is so smart is becasue he is. To use a literary and historical reference: he is Cardinal Richelieu of France who is the power and brains behind the bumbling King Loius XIII.

It's funny how he respects Itachi for sacrificing himself for Konoha but he won't even put himself in danger or try to sacrifice himself for the sake of anyone. I can still see him underground with all the members of ROOT just waiting until Pain was done destroying the village. He doesn't even have the guts to challenge Tsunade instead he waits for her to die on her own...such a coward.:roll:

I think you have reinforced my point about Danzo not being proud. He does care if he is considered a coward. However, if he saw an advantage in attacking Pain he woud have. Danzo is practical to a fault.
Now with this I can agree...Sasuke is a danger so killing him was a decision long overdue. The ANBU part was just disgusting I don't care what the goal was putting in danger all those shinobi without even caring is not how a true leader would act.

Yes it was heartless, but how else was he going to gain Orochmaru's trust. Not that this would be a decission I would make, but Danzo's perspective they were pawns to sacrifice. Also, in the end no harm came from it. If this want Danzo predicted, who knows?
His trust in ROOT is mock trust. He uses them, and doesn't consider them anything more than sacrifices to reach his goal. Fuu and Torune were captured by Madara. He likely knew that would happen, but rather than retreat, he sent out Fuu and Torune and prepared himself for battle. He sacrificed them, believing that in doing so he would buy himself the time to discover Madara's secrets and kill Madara.

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.
Like you said we can't expect Danzou to change but we also don't have to like him /support him.
But you would least admit he is quite the interesting villian.
I imagine all of his beliefs can be traced back to some backstory where he trusts people and their emotions get in the way and they let him down.

I hope not, I would lose all my enjoyment from watching him if this were the case. I hope baby Danzo just after birth ordered his mom to sacrifice herself for the good of the village.

3littlepigs
01-16-2010, 02:11 PM
Yeah it was much longer than I wanted. How long did take me to write? maybe about an hour. But after writing a few hundred page thesis that was nothing.


I guess I disagree with this point the most. There are two major reason why he considers himself better, Orochimaru and Sasuke. He really believes the other Hokage have screwed up. Also, when he was attacked by the ninja on the way to summit he was proud that before others didn't know who he was. I think if there was a Hokage that he agreed with, he would have no problem giving them the power.

LOL Oh ok well it was really well written :D
No, he was against Sarutobi before Oro and obviously before Sasuke. I get it he doesn't agree with the 1st's teachings (therefore he doesn't agree with all the previous Hokages plus Kakashi) but to me the fact that he thinks so highly of himself is not something positive. He is no different from Oro and Madara in that aspect, more proof? How he tried to take control of the Kage alliance...if being Hokage was his goal just to protect the village then he would've been ok with another Kage being elected as the alliance leader but he didn't even give them the benefit of the doubt because he's so full of himself. I mean I really dislike the Raikage but even he didn't trust Danzou that's because Danzou is the kind of person who would sacrifice everything and everyone just to get what he wants which is just power/control.

He's not stupid that's for sure but there's always someone better out there..but he's not humble enough to admit it that's why I say he is looking for selfgratitude.


I think you have reinforced my point about Danzo not being proud. He does care if he is considered a coward. However, if he saw an advantage in attacking Pain he woud have. Danzo is practical to a fault.

Yes it was heartless, but how else was he going to gain Orochmaru's trust. Not that this would be decission I would make, but Danzo's perspective they were pawns to sacrifice. Also, in the end no harm came from it. If this want Danzo predicted, who knows?

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.
But you would least admit he is quite the interesting villian.

I don't see how I have....what I was trying to say is it's easy to feel "proud" of someone else's sacrifice because it's not yours. He would never sacrifice himself because he's better than anyone.

He could've given him the pictures of ROOT members...most likely Oro would'n't have noticed (well except for Yamato's picture)

I don't know if he's the best villain in the series..he's persistent and egotistical I'll give him that.

AshBradford
01-16-2010, 02:17 PM
I used to loath Danzo, but he's recently started winning me over a little. In the current fight he's just said too many things that I've been thinking. I don't want to like him, but it's starting to go that way.

Parak111
01-16-2010, 02:27 PM
I really don't hate Danzo. However, his actions are confusing. At one moment he seems like a good guy, but right at the next one he goes all evil like. I really don't know what his purpose is. I'm more curious about his connection with Orochimaru though.

Wooster
01-16-2010, 02:27 PM
This might start getting a little messy, I just edited my previous post that responses to some of your other points. See above.

In regards to whether Danzo is arrogant, I will try to square the circle between us. First of all we don't know much about why he didn't like the First's teaching, maybe becasue they were so different from the other Kage. But I will conceed the point that Danzo does think overmuch of his intelligience, but I still can't give you self graditude. If he was wrong about something he would change his course. You have to admit once he lost Hokage to the Third he didn't go around and complain about it, such as Madara, he just used other methods to defend the village, most of which are in secret with no recognition.

Oh and thank you for the compliment.

Wooster
01-16-2010, 02:35 PM
I really don't hate Danzo. However, his actions are confusing. At one moment he seems like a good guy, but right at the next one he goes all evil like. I really don't know what his purpose is. I'm more curious about his connection with Orochimaru though.
See this is what I was trying to explain. If Danzo actions seem good at one point and evil the next it is because of his belief system. We will use Naruto as pure good and Madare as pure evil. Danzo's beliefs do not align completely with either, but they do overlap. So in some cases he would do the same as Naruto, defend Konoha, and in others the same as Madara, sacrifice his men.

I used to loath Danzo, but he's recently started winning me over a little. In the current fight he's just said too many things that I've been thinking. I don't want to like him, but it's starting to go that way.
Yes, come to the dark side. You know you want to.

deidara330
01-16-2010, 03:16 PM
I think you are at least partial right here. Of course part of the reason he thinks he is so smart is becasue he is. To use a literary and historical reference: he is Cardinal Richelieu of France who is the power and brains behind the bumbling King Loius XIII.

I do agree, he is smart to an extent. Although his methods are, err, questionable, they do get the job done. Sadly I'm not as litterary as you are (or at least appear to be) and have no idea what that analogy means.

Again, pawns sacrifice. Remember no emotion.

That was my point exactly. He sacrifices them because he thinks he doesn't need them, and that he's the only one he can honestly rely on. The only times he ever had someone do something for him was because they had some ability he didn't have, or because he knew the person who performed said task would die.

I hope not, I would lose all my enjoyment from watching him if this were the case. I hope baby Danzo just after birth ordered his mom to sacrifice herself for the good of the village.You see, I hope the opposite. Your analysis of his character is quite good, but Danzo is portrayed as and more popularly viewed as an antagonist. He is, too, since he opposes the main character of the story, making him an antagonist. And all great antagonist have a good backstory, or at least most of them. You can even find a few real-life examples of this. When you give a character a backstory it adds a new level of depth to the character. Pain was evil, yes, but when you learn about how he ended up to be what he is, you feel a certain sadness that someone so good turned out so bad. Orochimaru has a backstory, although not much more of a backstory than Sasori. Madara was given a backstory, and although all it does is show he was never a good person, it gives him a sense of really being the true antagonist. If not a good backstory, then Danzo at least deserves more character developement than what he already has.

Wooster
01-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Sorry about the reference: The Three Musketeers. I unfortanelty don't read much manga, so I could only pull from that source. Incidentally, to anyone who likes the serial nature of manga, you should do yourself the favor and read anything by Alexandre Dumas.

I agree back stories are good to an extent, but I really dislike: my mommy and daddy are dead so I am going to destroy the world. Which is why I have no use for Pain at all. Besides my flippant comment about baby Danzo, I think Danzo has enough back story already except perhaps the conflict during which the Third was chosen. Not to go back to my refernce, but what makes villians interesting is their interplay with the heros. Some of the best villians lose in the end but hold a grudging respect for the hero.

3littlepigs
01-16-2010, 05:37 PM
In regards to whether Danzo is arrogant, I will try to square the circle between us. First of all we don't know much about why he didn't like the First's teaching, maybe becasue they were so different from the other Kage. But I will conceed the point that Danzo does think overmuch of his intelligience, but I still can't give you self graditude. If he was wrong about something he would change his course. You have to admit once he lost Hokage to the Third he didn't go around and complain about it, such as Madara, he just used other methods to defend the village, most of which are in secret with no recognition.

Oh and thank you for the compliment.
You're welcome :D

Yes, Hashirama's teachings were different from all the other Kages but he started the village system and the Kage position as well so we might as well say all the other Kages acted differently from him. From what I understand he doesn't like Hashirama's teaching because he finds it creates a weak system and so puts the village in unnecessary danger but really there was nothing during the 1st or the 2nd's time as Hokage that puts Konoha in danger except Madara. That had nothing to do with the 1st's teachings but more with how Madara's pride was hurt.

Once he lost he didn't go around complaining but instead made sure everyone thought he was crippled. Not only that but at least Madara came back to take what he thought belonged to him in what you can call a fair fight...Danzou's worst because he attacks from within. Yes, it's smart but it's just wrong..I mean as a shinobi (ANBU, jonin etc) you should at least be able to count on/rely on others from your own village but instead they have to watch their backs inside their village too because they never know when ROOT and Danzou might do something. Yes, Danzou did things for the village things that even now he's not recognized for but it was just while he waited to get rid of Tsunade.

Akatsuki X
01-16-2010, 06:15 PM
wow....this is like a college paper o_0
very paper-thesis style of writing too
and all of the responses are rather long as well

and I just find it upsetting how Danzo went from being a rather "unimportant" character
to having a major part int he plot and having all of these exceptionally powerful abilities.

Wooster
01-16-2010, 06:30 PM
You're welcome :D

Yes, Hashirama's teachings were different from all the other Kages but he started the village system and the Kage position as well so we might as well say all the other Kages acted differently from him. From what I understand he doesn't like Hashirama's teaching because he finds it creates a weak system and so puts the village in unnecessary danger but really there was nothing during the 1st or the 2nd's time as Hokage that puts Konoha in danger except Madara. That had nothing to do with the 1st's teachings but more with how Madara's pride was hurt.

Once he lost he didn't go around complaining but instead made sure everyone thought he was crippled. Not only that but at least Madara came back to take what he thought belonged to him in what you can call a fair fight...Danzou's worst because he attacks from within. Yes, it's smart but it's just wrong..I mean as a shinobi (ANBU, jonin etc) you should at least be able to count on/rely on others from your own village but instead they have to watch their backs inside their village too because they never know when ROOT and Danzou might do something. Yes, Danzou did things for the village things that even now he's not recognized for but it was just while he waited to get rid of Tsunade.[/LEFT]

Okay, Okay, yes Hashirama was the first. But the Senju clan was the strongest so they had the luxury to be softer. Perhaps Danzo realized when the First and Second were gone, Konoha's advantage would disappear.

You got me again being too glib, yes at first Madara tried to encourage
Uchiha to revolt and when they wouldn't, he attacked directly. After he lost he plans vengance on both Konoha and the Uchiha clan. After that he used a more indirect attack than Danzo has every used. He had the nine-tailed fox attack Konoha leading to suspicion of the Uchiha. This distrust caused the Uchiha clan to plan to revolt. And finally he helped Itachi massacre his entire clan. Unlike Danzo, Madara holds grudges a long time for those whom offend his pride. Madara did complain though, what do you call his sob story to Sasuke. I think that's another difference between Danzo and Madara, Danzo would never waste his time getting revenge. He didn't try to attack the Sarutobi because he was named the third Hokage. I don't know how you got me to verbally attack Madara, I really like him too.

I don't know if I am convinced that Danzo is actively trying to bring Tsunade down. Remember he has been around through a number of Hokage, though maybe he believes Tsunade is the weakest of all. No harm came from giving away the ANBU list, true that was because Yamato retreived it. Danzo also didn't plan the Pain attack, he just chose to lay low. Of course, if Danzo calculated that the attack would leave Tsunade near death and that Pain would revive all those actually dead, thus still allowing Tsunade to die later, I will build a momument to Danzo and proclaim his genius to everyone I meet.

wow....this is like a college paper o_0
very paper-thesis style of writing too
and all of the responses are rather long as well

and I just find it upsetting how Danzo went from being a rather "unimportant" character
to having a major part int he plot and having all of these exceptionally powerful abilities.
Thanks, I will take that as compliment, though the massive length is a bit of an embrassment.
Yeah, chose not to comment on too powerup ect. There is too much here already, and its mainly a subjective arguement.

Manda
01-16-2010, 09:32 PM
Rampart of text hurts my eyes. @/_\@

3littlepigs
01-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Okay, Okay, yes Hashirama was the first. But the Senju clan was the strongest so they had the luxury to be softer. Perhaps Danzo realized when the First and Second were gone, Konoha's advantage would disappear.
If he really did that then he's beyond being a genius...he can see the future. Otherwise there was no way of knowing that Sarutobi would have Oro as an apprentice and that Oro would betray Konoha etc...if Hashirama and Tobirama chose Sarutobi is because they believed he was the right person to ensure Konoha's safety and prosperity. Danzou was just jelous...
You got me again being too glib, yes at first Madara tried to encourage
Uchiha to revolt and when they wouldn't, he attacked directly. After he lost he plans vengance on both Konoha and the Uchiha clan. After that he used a more indirect attack than Danzo has every used. He had the nine-tailed fox attack Konoha leading to suspicion of the Uchiha. This distrust caused the Uchiha clan to plan to revolt. And finally he helped Itachi massacre his entire clan. Unlike Danzo, Madara holds grudges a long time for those whom offend his pride. Madara did complain though, what do you call his sob story to Sasuke. I think that's another difference between Danzo and Madara, Danzo would never waste his time getting revenge. He didn't try to attack the Sarutobi because he was named the third Hokage. I don't know how you got me to verbally attack Madara, I really like him too.
LOL:p maybe you like Danzou a lot more than Madara...
Yeah, I was referring more to his first attack...lol :) at Madara complaining I mean everyone complains (although I'm pretty sure no one as much as Sasuke) especially all the villains with Danzou being no exception. When confronted with the truth he's always complaining about past situtations and saying how he's the best and what he could do /could've done to make sure those things don't happen/didn't happen.
I don't know if I am convinced that Danzo is actively trying to bring Tsunade down. Remember he has been around through a number of Hokage, though maybe he believes Tsunade is the weakest of all. No harm came from giving away the ANBU list, true that was because Yamato retreived it. Danzo also didn't plan the Pain attack, he just chose to lay low. Of course, if Danzo calculated that the attack would leave Tsunade near death and that Pain would revive all those actually dead, thus still allowing Tsunade to die later, I will build a momument to Danzo and proclaim his genius to everyone I meet.

Tsunade might be the weakest in "power" but I don't think any other Hokage could've saved that many people during Pain's attack (I mean if Pain hadn't revived everyone at the end). I seriously doubt he knew Pain would revive everyone...I'm pretty sure he was counting on Naruto releasing the seal and losing control to the Kyuubi.

Densetsu_no_D
01-17-2010, 07:11 AM
I agree with the original poster that Danzo isn't evil per say. He has always just done things for the safety and survival of the village. He has been ruthless and has done things the old shinobi way. I don't agree with his methods at all but I can understand his view of the world and how he feels about the Senju way of thinking...

Wooster
01-17-2010, 07:15 AM
If he really did that then he's beyond being a genius...he can see the future. Otherwise there was no way of knowing that Sarutobi would have Oro as an apprentice and that Oro would betray Konoha etc...if Hashirama and Tobirama chose Sarutobi is because they believed he was the right person to ensure Konoha's safety and prosperity. Danzou was just jelous...

Well, I don't think he predicted Orochimaru, but he may not have seen any ninja to match the first and second Hokage. Or perhaps he saw the relative strength of Konoha decrease as other nations copied the secret village per nation alliance. Also, I don't think Danzo knows how to be jealous.

When confronted with the truth he's always complaining about past situtations and saying how he's the best and what he could do /could've done to make sure those things don't happen/didn't happen.

Danzo points out other's poor decisons, when he is trying to convince others to follow his path. I don't see him complaining about himself being mistreated. But really I don't think either Madara and Danzo are much of the complaining type. Naruto may hate people who lie to themselves, I hate people who whine.
Tsunade might be the weakest in "power" but I don't think any other Hokage could've saved that many people during Pain's attack (I mean if Pain hadn't revived everyone at the end). I seriously doubt he knew Pain would revive everyone...I'm pretty sure he was counting on Naruto releasing the seal and losing control to the Kyuubi.
Sorry, I wasn't talking about power as in skill, there's no doubt in that sense she's strong. She is one of the Sannin, and certainly the best medical ninja, with the possible exception of Kabuto. What I meant is as a leader. Tsunade is very emotional, which no doubt really rubs Danzo the wrong way. She also lets Naruto do whatever he wants becasue she believes in him. Which is all well and good, even I believe in Naruto, but Naruto has always been reckless. I think Tsunade may be as reckless as Naruto, and thats not a good quality for a leader. It is also completely opposite of Danzo's patience and practicality.

I don't think Danzo knew what was going to happen at all with Pain except that he was looking for Naruto. Not mention his ANBU members would have only helped with the initial attack. The only person besides Naruto that could have defeated Pain, would be Danzo, and there was no way that Danzo was going to reveal all of his power. How could he control Naruto later?

Fuu and Torune were captured by Madara. He likely knew that would happen, but rather than retreat, he sent out Fuu and Torune and prepared himself for battle. He sacrificed them, believing that in doing so he would buy himself the time to discover Madara's secrets and kill Madara.
I know I already commeted before on this, but I can't believe I let this slip by. I am suppose to be the consumate Danzo defender, now he is going to punish me.

Danzo didn't sacrifice Fu and Torone, he said 'I'm going to release the seal on my right arm. Fu,Torune cover me." Now this could be some secret ninja code for "Attack all out, I am going to drink some tea", but I think this means Danzo was going to fight Madara himself. If your still not convinced try this quote: "It's Madara...We have no idea what he can do. Be careful." I almost can't believe Danzo said this, its almost loving. He must really respect Fu and Torone. It's clearly Fu and Torune's fault they were captured, killed or what happens when Madara sucks in non-friendlies. Why did they fight Madara in close combat? That's certainly not what Danzo told them to do.

Secondly, how do you retreat from Madara? He just needs to go into his twilight zone and pop up where ever you retreated to, which is why I assume Danzo did not try to retreat.

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 11:40 AM
Well, I don't think he predicted Orochimaru, but he may not have seen any ninja to match the first and second Hokage. Or perhaps he saw the relative strength of Konoha decrease as other nations copied the secret village per nation alliance. Also, I don't think Danzo knows how to be jealous.
Other nations started copying the 1 village per nation before Danzou was even born and as a kid (genin to be more precise) there's no way he would've had access to important info about Konoha's overall strength when compared to other countries. Sarutobi was chosen really young so the way I see it Danzou just didn't consider him fit just because he thinks to highly of himself and he always thought he could do better. Then came everything else with Oro etc just luck proving his point otherwise what did he have to back up his complaints towards Sarutobi? Nothing else, really all the 3 Ninja wars weren't caused by the 3rd....

Danzo points out other's poor decisons, when he is trying to convince others to follow his path. I don't see him complaining about himself being mistreated. But really I don't think either Madara and Danzo are much of the complaining type. Naruto may hate people who lie to themselves, I hate people who whine.
Exactly! he complains about things that he thinks wouldn't have happened if he had been Hokage instead of the 3rd but some things are meant to happen no matter who's the leader (Madara's use of the Kyuubi 16 yrs ago?). True, they usually don't "whine" but they try and make others feel sorry for them or try and make up excuses for their actions/decision...really no different from Sasuke in that aspect. LOL true Naruto hates people who lie to themselves..and yes I also don't like Sasuke 'cause he whines about his fate so much! :mad:
Sorry, I wasn't talking about power as in skill, there's no doubt in that sense she's strong. She is one of the Sannin, and certainly the best medical ninja, with the possible exception of Kabuto. What I meant is as a leader. Tsunade is very emotional, which no doubt really rubs Danzo the wrong way. She also lets Naruto do whatever he wants becasue she believes in him. Which is all well and good, even I believe in Naruto, but Naruto has always been reckless. I think Tsunade may be as reckless as Naruto, and thats not a good quality for a leader. It is also completely opposite of Danzo's patience and practicality.
I'm going to agree with you on that one..Tsunade is very emotional and tends to go easy on Naruto but at least she doesn't want to kill him to get the Kyuubi from him. So far I haven't seen Danzou complain about Minato and since he likes people who sacrifice themselves for Konoha's sake then shouldn't he respect Minato's decision of sealing the Kyuubi inside Naruto?
I don't think Danzo knew what was going to happen at all with Pain except that he was looking for Naruto. Not mention his ANBU members would have only helped with the initial attack. The only person besides Naruto that could have defeated Pain, would be Danzo, and there was no way that Danzo was going to reveal all of his power. How could he control Naruto later?
As of last chapter we know he's after the Kyuubi and like I said before there's no way to take the Kyuubi from Naruto unless he releases the seal or he has Gedo Mazou (which Madara will never give to Danzou). So even if he didn't know about Pain reviving everyone he did know the leader of Akatsuki would most likely destroy the village and injure Tsunade (if not kill her) but I'm sure since he's such a "genius" he knew Pa and Naruto would found out what was going in Konoha sonner or later. I wouldn't be surprised if he did want Naruto to lose control to the Kyuubi...
If Naruto releases the seal the Kyuubi would be free, Danzou has all those sharingans and the 1st's DNA to try and control the Kyuubi himself...he wouldn't have to worry about controlling Naruto after that.

Wooster
01-17-2010, 11:59 AM
I think we are agreeing enough that to continue to argue over the minutia probably isn't productive. So I will let you have the last word.

I do find it interesting that Danzo hasn't had anything bad to say about Minato, and he seemed content enough with the third Hokage. I think he just thinks Tsunade is a disaster, which is why it's interesting that he didn't try to stop her from being Hokage. Maybe he expected her to be different she was very different after her brother and Dan died. Perhaps he expected her to have harden or at least be easy to influence. So clearly Tsunade's poor leadership is all Naruto's fault for making her believe in something again.

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 12:36 PM
I think we are agreeing enough that to continue to argue over the minutia probably isn't productive. So I will let you have the last word.

I do find it interesting that Danzo hasn't had anything bad to say about Minato, and he seemed content enough with the third Hokage. I think he just thinks Tsunade is a disaster, which is why it's interesting that he didn't try to stop her from being Hokage. Maybe he expected her to be different she was very different after her brother and Dan died. Perhaps he expected her to have harden or at least be easy to influence. So clearly Tsunade's poor leadership is all Naruto's fault for making her believe in something again.
LOL :p That's fine let's leave it at that....although I really don't think Tsunade's been such a disaster.:)

deidara330
01-17-2010, 02:08 PM
I know I already commeted before on this, but I can't believe I let this slip by. I am suppose to be the consumate Danzo defender, now he is going to punish me.

Danzo didn't sacrifice Fu and Torone, he said 'I'm going to release the seal on my right arm. Fu,Torune cover me." Now this could be some secret ninja code for "Attack all out, I am going to drink some tea", but I think this means Danzo was going to fight Madara himself.

Danzo knows Madara's reputation. He would've known they would lose. And had he retreated, they would've survived. He, for some reason, believed that he could fight Madara alone and win. He sacrificed Fuu and Torune to do that. I'm not saying his intentions were evil or anything like that. I'm saying he thought only he could defeat Madara, using his own power. He couldn't have relied on anyone else to do it for him.

If your still not convinced try this quote: "It's Madara...We have no idea what he can do. Be careful." I almost can't believe Danzo said this, its almost loving. He must really respect Fu and Torone.

Right, telling someone to be careful is a sign of respect. Even though many people say this to people they work with when they really expect the person to lose or even die. You shouldn't fight an enemy you don't know the powers of, especially one with a reputation preceeding them such as Madara. He was overconfident that Izanagi would help him win. I don't see why he would need to go into battle if he expected them to win. He knew they would lose. And naturally, in their world to lose usually means to be killed by the winner. No self-respecting villain leaves his enemy alive. Additionally, he didn't have any faith that they or anyone else in ROOT could've defeated Madara, otherwise he could've simply retreated, gathered more information, and attacked later.

It's clearly Fu and Torune's fault they were captured, killed or what happens when Madara sucks in non-friendlies. Why did they fight Madara in close combat? That's certainly not what Danzo told them to do.

It's not as though they had a choice. They certainly weren't going to attempt to fight a mass teleporter at long range, and they clearly would've needed to distract Madara for Danzo to release the seal.

Secondly, how do you retreat from Madara? He just needs to go into his twilight zone and pop up where ever you retreated to, which is why I assume Danzo did not try to retreat.Well, if it was impossible for them to retreat anyways, there's no real point in attempting to fight him. Plus, without prior knowledge, they could simply have had one person distract Madara while the other two escaped. Retreat was the best course of action, because if Madara were fighting seriously, they would all have died. In an escape attempt, with Madara acting in character, at least one person might've survived. Danzo had to have known Fuu and Torune could never beat Madara and sacrificed them so he could unseal his arm and beat Madara himself.

Wooster
01-17-2010, 02:29 PM
Well, if it was impossible for them to retreat anyways, there's no real point in attempting to fight him. Plus, without prior knowledge, they could simply have had one person distract Madara while the other two escaped. Retreat was the best course of action, because if Madara were fighting seriously, they would all have died. In an escape attempt, with Madara acting in character, at least one person might've survived. Danzo had to have known Fuu and Torune could never beat Madara and sacrificed them so he could unseal his arm and beat Madara himself.
It was impossible for them to retreat, so that's why they fought. Yes,Fu and Torune had to give Danzo enough time release the seal on his arm. They chose to sacrifice themselves to give Danzo enough time. I just think delay tatctics would have served the same purpose. Also, they probably thought Madara was after Danzo, when really Madara just wanted to remove them from the battle field. That way Madara could pit Sasuke vs. Danzo.
Sure many times Danzo makes sacrifice his men, but at this point, I don't think this is what he wanted. These were two of his best.

LOL :p That's fine let's leave it at that....although I really don't think Tsunade's been such a disaster.:)
I am not saying she is, but Danzo has only tried to undermine her. Of course, one could use the pratical, stupid arguement on this. Kishimoto just hadn't invented Danzo before Tsunade.

deidara330
01-17-2010, 03:20 PM
It was impossible for them to retreat, so that's why they fought. Yes,Fu and Torune had to give Danzo enough time release the seal on his arm. They chose to sacrifice themselves to give Danzo enough time. I just think delay tatctics would have served the same purpose. Also, they probably thought Madara was after Danzo, when really Madara just wanted to remove them from the battle field. That way Madara could pit Sasuke vs. Danzo.
Sure many times Danzo makes sacrifice his men, but at this point, I don't think this is what he wanted. These were two of his best.My point is that there was a chance that they could've escaped, but they didn't Danzo only sacrifices his men when he believes there's no other way, and on occasion it happens that there is another way, but he doesn't come to that conclusion because he thinks he can solve the problem alone.

RockyL
01-17-2010, 04:51 PM
In my personal opinion he is not a "bad guy". Yes some of his methods are twisted but he is trying to save his village although he sometimes goes about it the wrong way.

3littlepigs
01-17-2010, 09:36 PM
I am not saying she is, but Danzo has only tried to undermine her. Of course, one could use the pratical, stupid arguement on this. Kishimoto just hadn't invented Danzo before Tsunade.
Sorry I misunderstood you then...;)

Wooster
01-18-2010, 03:35 PM
Sorry I misunderstood you then...;)
No worries.
My point is that there was a chance that they could've escaped, but they didn't Danzo only sacrifices his men when he believes there's no other way, and on occasion it happens that there is another way, but he doesn't come to that conclusion because he thinks he can solve the problem alone.
I still don't think you can escape Madara. He did keep eight Konoha ninja from reaching Sasuke, but to each their own. Cheers.
In my personal opinion he is not a "bad guy". Yes some of his methods are twisted but he is trying to save his village although he sometimes goes about it the wrong way.

Well I would say he is not evil. He is a "bad guy" in that he is opposed to the protagonist, Naruto. Anyway, thanks for reading

Wooster
02-05-2010, 03:03 PM
Sorry to bump this thread, but multiple threads are being created that can easily be covered here. Nonetheless, I will append some comments here from recent chapters. So Chapter 481 spoilers ahead.


Appendix: Danzo's Death
The recent chapter shows that Danzo had a rivalry with Hiruzen when they were both young. Apparently, Danzo was always a step behind Hiruzen, mostly notably in sacrificing himself for the others long ago. While it is true, Danzo was too frightened to volunteer readily, I think it would be a mistake to consider this Danzo's typical motivation. He was very young and actually had emotion then. In other words, nothing like the stoic dispassionate Danzo of the present. The important thing to take away is that Danzo followed the Second's advice not to throw his life away needlessly. You can call this cowardice if you like, but Danzo is extremely practical in that way.

In no way, does the flashback mean Danzo agreed with Hiruzen (all the evidence for that can be seen in the first post). However, as I just said Danzo will retreat when necessary. Similarly, he will admit when he is defeated. He doesn't thrash out in anger at his failure. In this case, comparing his life to Hiruzen he fell short. He simply regrets his life goals (protecting the village) did not suceed.

None of this means you should change your opinion of Danzo. He is still the same ruthless underhanded shinobi he always was. He follows the old shinobi way like Granny Chiyo and Zabuza. This way is opposed to Naruto. If you like his ruthlessness and cunning then go ahead and appreciate him. But don't like him because you feel sorry for him or think he was misunderstood. Danzo was not misunderstood by the others, they were right. Danzo wouldn't want your sympathy, so you don't need to give it to him. Now if you're upset that an great villian was killed needlessly, that's something to be upset about. A Konoha civil war between Danzo and Naruto would have been great.

mrsticky005
02-05-2010, 03:27 PM
A Konoha war between Naruto and Danzo would be great indeed. Since we are supposed
to sympthatize with Naruto it would be a good way to reinforce that sympathy.

deidara330
02-05-2010, 03:52 PM
I think now that the new chapter has come out, I'll use it to reinforce my original point, which was that Danzo always wanted peace for the Leaf Village. He just didn't think anyone but he himself could bring it. He wanted to do it all alone. He had good intentions, but his actions weren't quite so good.

Wooster
02-05-2010, 04:31 PM
A Konoha war between Naruto and Danzo would be great indeed. Since we are supposed
to sympthatize with Naruto it would be a good way to reinforce that sympathy.
Well maybe, but also because Naruto wouldn't be completley in the right. That's much more interesting than Sasuke's turning to the "dark side."
I think now that the new chapter has come out, I'll use it to reinforce my original point, which was that Danzo always wanted peace for the Leaf Village. He just didn't think anyone but he himself could bring it. He wanted to do it all alone. He had good intentions, but his actions weren't quite so good.

I don't know if did it alone, he did have all the Foundation. His intentions would have to be judge against the results, since he died we will never know. I suppose his idea to become Hokage was a bad idea, it let Madara get to him. What was it Madara said something about keeping his roots buried. Certainly Danzo actions are harsh, but other's intention haven't work out so well either, particularly Tsunade's leniency to Sasuke.

But mostly right, I want to squash the Danzo is a misunderstood "good guy." I find that most repugnant.

mrsticky005
02-05-2010, 06:44 PM
I think now that the new chapter has come out, I'll use it to reinforce my original point, which was that Danzo always wanted peace for the Leaf Village. He just didn't think anyone but he himself could bring it. He wanted to do it all alone. He had good intentions, but his actions weren't quite so good.


I still say Danzo is a bad guy. They could do the same with Madara and I would think he's also a bad guy.

Wooster
02-05-2010, 08:08 PM
I still say Danzo is a bad guy. They could do the same with Madara and I would think he's also a bad guy.
That's because Madara is a bad guy. But Danzo never got to be a full fledged villian. Kishimoto killed him off too quickly, silly Kishimoto. If he wanted Sasuke to kill a Konoha ninja, why not one of the advisors. They're the most useless characters of them all.

mrsticky005
02-06-2010, 05:19 PM
That's because Madara is a bad guy. But Danzo never got to be a full fledged villian. Kishimoto killed him off too quickly, silly Kishimoto. If he wanted Sasuke to kill a Konoha ninja, why not one of the advisors. They're the most useless characters of them all.

I suspect Sasuke will fight both of them at the same time.

They will randomly get awesome powers.

Sasuke will be like SHARINGANED I copy you and win.

Wooster
02-06-2010, 06:22 PM
I suspect Sasuke will fight both of them at the same time.

They will randomly get awesome powers.

Sasuke will be like SHARINGANED I copy you and win.
Well, that would be completely unexpected. I mean the advisors having powers.

ninjamom
02-06-2010, 08:03 PM
A well thought-out post as well as many well thought-out responses! Danzo is the archetypal hardened General, who in defense of his people, was willing to pursue any and all methods available to him to fulfill his singular goal. In his mind, right and wrong, took second place to defending the village.

I especially liked chapter 481 because it gave Danzo's character more dimension and showed a vulnerable side and even some retrospection. As the poster has stated, it doesn't defend his actions, (and I don't think anyone is trying to say that), but it does give some insight into his behavior.

Wooster
02-07-2010, 09:02 AM
A well thought-out post as well as many well thought-out responses! Danzo is the archetypal hardened General, who in defense of his people, was willing to pursue any and all methods available to him to fulfill his singular goal. In his mind, right and wrong, took second place to defending the village.

I especially liked chapter 481 because it gave Danzo's character more dimension and showed a vulnerable side and even some retrospection. As the poster has stated, it doesn't defend his actions, (and I don't think anyone is trying to say that), but it does give some insight into his behavior.
Wow, I don't think there's anything I can diagree with here. Not that I didn't enjoy the lively debates with others.

Space Cowboy Sasori
08-22-2010, 07:01 PM
You go wooster!

Vornmusion
08-22-2010, 07:04 PM
Wonderful walls of text in this thread.

/golf clap

Lady Tsunade
08-23-2010, 08:01 AM
Regardless of anything. Danzo didn't help Konoha in the Invasion of Pein. When he had a large number of skilled Ninja which could've helped. He wasn't loyal to the Village. And thus would not be a suitable Kage. He was also jealous when Hiruzen became Kage over him. So I wouldn't say his entire purpose of hating Hiruzen and Tsunade was that he didn't like their ways of keeping the Village. But also because he was jealous they got the position and he didn't. It's also likely he used his Sharingan to persuade the Elders to agree with him in debates, like he did in the Kage meeting. Over people like Tsunade, or Hiruzen.

I still hate him xD

Wooster
08-23-2010, 09:04 AM
Regardless of anything. Danzo didn't help Konoha in the Invasion of Pein. When he had a large number of skilled Ninja which could've helped. He wasn't loyal to the Village. And thus would not be a suitable Kage. He was also jealous when Hiruzen became Kage over him. So I wouldn't say his entire purpose of hating Hiruzen and Tsunade was that he didn't like their ways of keeping the Village. But also because he was jealous they got the position and he didn't. It's also likely he used his Sharingan to persuade the Elders to agree with him in debates, like he did in the Kage meeting. Over people like Tsunade, or Hiruzen.

I still hate him xD
Libel! There is no proof Danzo used Shisui's eye on the elders. Not to mention all the Byakugan users around would make it dangerous. No, instead instead he used his vast wisdom, his lovely, baritone repartee, and his reasonable arguments. These are things Tsunade should learn how to use.

He didn't help because he was waiting for Pain to leave instead of provoking him into destroying the village unlike some bone head. Besides he knew Tsunade would save must of the villagers lives and then be removed as Hokage. Win-win. :D

Kazumi Saitama
08-23-2010, 10:14 AM
Regardless of anything. Danzo didn't help Konoha in the Invasion of Pein. When he had a large number of skilled Ninja which could've helped. He wasn't loyal to the Village. And thus would not be a suitable Kage. He was also jealous when Hiruzen became Kage over him. So I wouldn't say his entire purpose of hating Hiruzen and Tsunade was that he didn't like their ways of keeping the Village. But also because he was jealous they got the position and he didn't. It's also likely he used his Sharingan to persuade the Elders to agree with him in debates, like he did in the Kage meeting. Over people like Tsunade, or Hiruzen.

I still hate him xD

I completely agree with her.

Regardless of his so called "good" intentions, I hate him.

Wooster
08-23-2010, 10:22 AM
I completely agree with her.

Regardless of his so called "good" intentions, I hate him.
At least his intentions get the job done, unlike someone else who gets the village blown up.

Space Cowboy Sasori
08-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Oh Wooster.

Who knew that this was going to end up with you debating more? xD

Wooster
08-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Oh Wooster.

Who knew that this was going to end up with you debating more? xD
Yeah, thanks a lot. I got rep too! Boooooo!

I guess Danzo is forever, forever, forever.

Jakropha
08-23-2010, 01:39 PM
TL;DR

I didnt think Id actually be immensley overloaded by the wirds :O

Wooster
08-23-2010, 01:46 PM
Words have power, never forget.

/destroys a city with walls of text

Lady Tsunade
08-23-2010, 02:39 PM
Libel! There is no proof Danzo used Shisui's eye on the elders. Not to mention all the Byakugan users around would make it dangerous. No, instead instead he used his vast wisdom, his lovely, baritone repartee, and his reasonable arguments. These are things Tsunade should learn how to use.

He didn't help because he was waiting for Pain to leave instead of provoking him into destroying the village unlike some bone head. Besides he knew Tsunade would save must of the villagers lives and then be removed as Hokage. Win-win. :D

Oh, there is no proof. I said it's likely. However, from what I can see. From all the council meetings showed thus far. There are no Byakugan users who actively take part in those important debates. And even if they did. Activating the Byakugan , while having a friendly talk about Village matters. Would be a bit inappropriate. Don't you think? All hypothetical of course.

So what? What kind of Kage would he be, if he waited for someone else to kill everyone . While he sits and does absoloutly nothing? Knowing someone else would do all the work, is not not him doing anything except being unloyal to his Village. knew Tsunade would save must of the villagers lives and then be removed as Hokage. Win-win. xD You said it yourself. He wanted the position for himself. And he didn't want to get the position the old fashioned way either. Like proving his worth. B say, helping protect Konoha. He wanted to wait for the current Kage to die. So he could step in. Again, he was unloyal. And did not in anyway dserve the position. If the Elders. Homura and Koharu, had known he didn't help. They wouldn't have been as quick as setting him as the Temporary Hokage.

Also, Tsunade shouting at Pein really had little effect on anything. Pein is a ruthless ninja, he has no sympathy for people. Especially people who kill off his entire organisation. And also people, who killed his parents. You really think Tsunade, a woman who Pein really didn't care about. Persuaded him in anyway to nuke Konoha. No. Pein is brutal, he hates major countires like Konoha, Suna etc. Because he disagrees with their methods of peace. One woman shouting at him isn't going to do anything. Furthermore, if Tsunade had simply nodded her hed as Pein explained his view on things saying " Yes, I completely agree. " Lol Well what kind of friggin' Kage would she have been. If you're trying to imply Danzo would've agreed with Pein. Or even tried to avoid the discussion in anyway. Whether it be direct assault, or simple insults. It would've made a hell of a lot less sense, that what Tsunade did. Which was stand up for her Village. Like every good kage should do.

Danzo would never have been a suitable Kage, because he didn't understand loyalty. He only wanted power. And the ability to do things his way. He was only a selfish, jealous old man. Powerful, but still not Kage material.

@Kazumi: <3

Lone Wolf Of Missouri
08-23-2010, 10:43 PM
I like the ruthless suppres your emotions way. that is the real way of war!

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 04:28 AM
I like the ruthless suppres your emotions way. that is the real way of war!

Yeah! Right on!


By the way are you the same as the user "Lone Wolf" or are you new?

Shino Hatake
08-24-2010, 04:53 AM
Oh, there is no proof. I said it's likely. However, from what I can see. From all the council meetings showed thus far. There are no Byakugan users who actively take part in those important debates. And even if they did. Activating the Byakugan , while having a friendly talk about Village matters. Would be a bit inappropriate. Don't you think? All hypothetical of course.

So what? What kind of Kage would he be, if he waited for someone else to kill everyone . While he sits and does absoloutly nothing? Knowing someone else would do all the work, is not not him doing anything except being unloyal to his Village. knew Tsunade would save must of the villagers lives and then be removed as Hokage. Win-win. xD You said it yourself. He wanted the position for himself. And he didn't want to get the position the old fashioned way either. Like proving his worth. B say, helping protect Konoha. He wanted to wait for the current Kage to die. So he could step in. Again, he was unloyal. And did not in anyway dserve the position. If the Elders. Homura and Koharu, had known he didn't help. They wouldn't have been as quick as setting him as the Temporary Hokage.

Also, Tsunade shouting at Pein really had little effect on anything. Pein is a ruthless ninja, he has no sympathy for people. Especially people who kill off his entire organisation. And also people, who killed his parents. You really think Tsunade, a woman who Pein really didn't care about. Persuaded him in anyway to nuke Konoha. No. Pein is brutal, he hates major countires like Konoha, Suna etc. Because he disagrees with their methods of peace. One woman shouting at him isn't going to do anything. Furthermore, if Tsunade had simply nodded her hed as Pein explained his view on things saying " Yes, I completely agree. " Lol Well what kind of friggin' Kage would she have been. If you're trying to imply Danzo would've agreed with Pein. Or even tried to avoid the discussion in anyway. Whether it be direct assault, or simple insults. It would've made a hell of a lot less sense, that what Tsunade did. Which was stand up for her Village. Like every good kage should do.

Danzo would never have been a suitable Kage, because he didn't understand loyalty. He only wanted power. And the ability to do things his way. He was only a selfish, jealous old man. Powerful, but still not Kage material.

@Kazumi: <3 Good lord Jeanie Woman! Give me a day at school to counter this one.

Wooster
08-24-2010, 05:02 AM
Oh, there is no proof. I said it's likely. However, from what I can see. From all the council meetings showed thus far. There are no Byakugan users who actively take part in those important debates. And even if they did. Activating the Byakugan , while having a friendly talk about Village matters. Would be a bit inappropriate. Don't you think? All hypothetical of course.

So what? What kind of Kage would he be, if he waited for someone else to kill everyone . While he sits and does absoloutly nothing? Knowing someone else would do all the work, is not not him doing anything except being unloyal to his Village. knew Tsunade would save must of the villagers lives and then be removed as Hokage. Win-win. xD You said it yourself. He wanted the position for himself. And he didn't want to get the position the old fashioned way either. Like proving his worth. B say, helping protect Konoha. He wanted to wait for the current Kage to die. So he could step in. Again, he was unloyal. And did not in anyway dserve the position. If the Elders. Homura and Koharu, had known he didn't help. They wouldn't have been as quick as setting him as the Temporary Hokage.

Also, Tsunade shouting at Pein really had little effect on anything. Pein is a ruthless ninja, he has no sympathy for people. Especially people who kill off his entire organisation. And also people, who killed his parents. You really think Tsunade, a woman who Pein really didn't care about. Persuaded him in anyway to nuke Konoha. No. Pein is brutal, he hates major countires like Konoha, Suna etc. Because he disagrees with their methods of peace. One woman shouting at him isn't going to do anything. Furthermore, if Tsunade had simply nodded her hed as Pein explained his view on things saying " Yes, I completely agree. " Lol Well what kind of friggin' Kage would she have been. If you're trying to imply Danzo would've agreed with Pein. Or even tried to avoid the discussion in anyway. Whether it be direct assault, or simple insults. It would've made a hell of a lot less sense, that what Tsunade did. Which was stand up for her Village. Like every good kage should do.

Danzo would never have been a suitable Kage, because he didn't understand loyalty. He only wanted power. And the ability to do things his way. He was only a selfish, jealous old man. Powerful, but still not Kage material.

@Kazumi: <3Not unlikely, he couldn't take the risk. Not to mention, using it takes a lot out of him. He might as well just argue. After all he is only up against a nitwit like Tsunade.

Not unloyal, only logical. It is unemotional and ruthless, but that is who Danzo is. He wanted the position because he believed the others were making poor decisions and in many cases they were. Well he had the most worth when he was chosen that's why he was picked.

Tsunade did have an effcet. Pain only wanted Naruto. Naruto wasn't in the village, which by the way is what Danzo wanted. Allowing him to leave for the moment would be the right decision. Tsunade goaded him into destroying the village. Danzo would not have even wasted his time trying to talk to Pain.

Danzo understands loyalty, but it is to the village itself. Any individual is expendable depending on whether their sacrifice is to the benefit of the village as a whole.

Lady Tsunade
08-24-2010, 05:24 AM
Not unlikely, he couldn't take the risk. Not to mention, using it takes a lot out of him. He might as well just argue. After all he is only up against a nitwit like Tsunade.

Not unloyal, only logical. It is unemotional and ruthless, but that is who Danzo is. He wanted the position because he believed the others were making poor decisions and in many cases they were. Well he had the most worth when he was chosen that's why he was picked.

Tsunade did have an effcet. Pain only wanted Naruto. Naruto wasn't in the village, which by the way is what Danzo wanted. Allowing him to leave for the moment would be the right decision. Tsunade goaded him into destroying the village. Danzo would not have even wasted his time trying to talk to Pain.

Danzo understands loyalty, but it is to the village itself. Any individual is expendable depending on whether their sacrifice is to the benefit of the village as a whole.

She's a student of Hiruzen Sarutobi. Had almost as much battle experience, it not more. Than the Elders. And of course, is the Hokage. Argueing with her is difficult. As is winning :L Danzo does anything to gain power, as seen when he tok control of A in the Kage Meeting, to try and become leader of the Ninja Alliance. He doesn't seem to care how much it 'takes out of him'

No. Unloyal. Tsunade , or Hiruzen, or Minato may have known their army of Villagers could've saved a lot of people. Doesn't mean they would've sat back and done nothing would it? Granted he's intelligent, as are all other Kages. Emotions have nothing to do with it. A Kage is supposed to protect his or her Village at all costs. Danzo certainly would not do that .

No, she really didn't, as I already explained. Tsunade could not have have convinced him into doing anything. Since when did Pein start becoming offended by people like Tsunade? And when did he become sympathetic enough to spare lives? Never. He would've destroyed the Village arguement or no arguement. Konoha kiled his parents, Konoha killed his organization. Konoha are the reason capturing Tailed Beasts is so difficult. He dislikes Konoha, or at least - he did. No, he wouldn't talk to Pein, because Danzo would've been underground having tea with Root, while Konoha gets destroyed xD

Danzo tried to kill Sasuke, but from what he said during the manga. It wasn't to defend the Village. It was because he felt allowing Sasuke to live was a waste. Hiruzen was alright with Itachi not killing Sasuke, apparently Danzo was not. He never said anything about wanting to defend Konoha. He also sent ANBU to find Kabuto Yakushi, before Anko Mitarashi? Anko is loyal to the Village. As we know. Even going as far as trying to kill Orochimaru to save Konoha. Danzo doesn't trust her. Or better yet, wants Kabuto for his own purposes. Again, no loyalty. Or faith to his Villagers.
Not a suitable Kage

;]

Wooster
08-24-2010, 05:49 AM
She's a student of Hiruzen Sarutobi. Had almost as much battle experience, it not more. Than the Elders. And of course, is the Hokage. Argueing with her is difficult. As is winning :L Danzo does anything to gain power, as seen when he tok control of A in the Kage Meeting, to try and become leader of the Ninja Alliance. He doesn't seem to care how much it 'takes out of him'

No. Unloyal. Tsunade , or Hiruzen, or Minato may have known their army of Villagers could've saved a lot of people. Doesn't mean they would've sat back and done nothing would it? Granted he's intelligent, as are all other Kages. Emotions have nothing to do with it. A Kage is supposed to protect his or her Village at all costs. Danzo certainly would not do that .

No, she really didn't, as I already explained. Tsunade could not have have convinced him into doing anything. Since when did Pein start becoming offended by people like Tsunade? And when did he become sympathetic enough to spare lives? Never. He would've destroyed the Village arguement or no arguement. Konoha kiled his parents, Konoha killed his organization. Konoha are the reason capturing Tailed Beasts is so difficult. He dislikes Konoha, or at least - he did. No, he wouldn't talk to Pein, because Danzo would've been underground having tea with Root, while Konoha gets destroyed xD

Danzo tried to kill Sasuke, but from what he said during the manga. It wasn't to defend the Village. It was because he felt allowing Sasuke to live was a waste. Hiruzen was alright with Itachi not killing Sasuke, apparently Danzo was not. He never said anything about wanting to defend Konoha. He also sent ANBU to find Kabuto Yakushi, before Anko Mitarashi? Anko is loyal to the Village. As we know. Even going as far as trying to kill Orochimaru to save Konoha. Danzo doesn't trust her. Or better yet, wants Kabuto for his own purposes. Again, no loyalty. Or faith to his Villagers.
Not a suitable Kage

;]He out argued her with adding Sai to Team Kakashi, even Shizune was on his side. Tsunade didn't use any decent arguments about bringing Naruto back, she just used force.
Why did Danzo do that? Um and it wasn't A it was Mifiune. He needed all the villages to form an alliance. That was his idea remember. Clearly Danzo would have been the best given the other choices, but it was not only that he needed to lead it but that it had to happen. Without Madara busting in, it might not have happened. If Ao didn't see Danzo's sharingan, the alliance would have formed as well. The other Kage seemed to begrudgingly accept Danzo as the leader.

Clearly his actions would have been different if he was Hokage. The people were saved, his calculations were correct.

Really? Pain is offended by everything. His point was to get Naruto. There was no reason to destroy Konoha. Remember he even offered to form an alliance if Tsunade handed Naruto over. Tsunade was arrogant, so Pain decided to teach her a lesson.

Why did Danzo want to exterminate the Uchiha clan in the first place? Because they were a danger to the village. To say that there was any reason beside that for killing Sasuke is silly. Danzo was the first to see it and was well ahead of Tsunade on the need to kill Sasuke once he went rogue.
Yes, because he wanted to pump Kabuto to gain information about the First's DNA no doubt. He was still going to capture him. Danzo doesn't trust Anko because she is an agent of Tsunade. And who in their right mind would trust Tsunade with anything?

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 06:15 AM
Yea I see he just wants things going his shinobi way the way he was brought up knowing that doesnt nessiccerily mean he is evil, i mean think about itachi he experienced war at such a young age and not to mention all the pain and suffering he endured, but even tho he put on a show with his cold darker akatsuki exterior showing hardly any emotions on the inside he was a warm hearted good man with nothing but the best inetentions for young Sasuke `!:)

I somewhat agree with you wooster btw Nice job on the first post i can tell it was alot of hard work so Kudos to you :cool:

Wooster
08-24-2010, 08:40 AM
Yea I see he just wants things going his shinobi way the way he was brought up knowing that doesnt nessiccerily mean he is evil, i mean think about itachi he experienced war at such a young age and not to mention all the pain and suffering he endured, but even tho he put on a show with his cold darker akatsuki exterior showing hardly any emotions on the inside he was a warm hearted good man with nothing but the best inetentions for young Sasuke `!:)

I somewhat agree with you wooster btw Nice job on the first post i can tell it was alot of hard work so Kudos to you :cool:
Thank you. Much appreciated even if I did this seven months ago. :lol:

Yes, Danzo isn't evil only ruthless.

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 09:15 AM
Thank you. Much appreciated even if I did this seven months ago. :lol:

Yes, Danzo isn't evil only ruthless.

lol no prob `:)

and yea he is plus a cranky old man

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 09:56 AM
Thank you. Much appreciated even if I did this seven months ago. :lol:

Yes, Danzo isn't evil only ruthless.


What about how the Foundation is composed of orphans?
(Not all of them are orphans but many are according to Sai Shaft.)

Sure the obvious thing to think is "How cruel. Danzo is manipulating orphans."

But look at this way. If Danzo didn't take them what would have happened
to them? Even if they were "lucky" like Naruto their lives would still be
lonely and miserable and in Sasuke's case we can see that being a very
bad thing. Danzo is ruthless and therefore couldn't give them love.
But he gave them something else valuable. A purpose in life.
The purpose of the foundation is the mission: Protect the Leaf and Fire.
Now protecting the Hidden Leaf and the Land of Fire means two very
different things between Naruto and Danzo. Yet neither is wrong.
Danzo's idea of protecting Konoha and the Land of Fire is NOT just
protecting himself despite the impression he gives. Naruto is like
Pain had said "one who cannot see the forest for the trees" In
other words, Naruto sees the details. He sees the leaves.
The leaves represent each and every citizen of the land of Fire/Konoha.
Naruto wants to protect each and every last one of them on an one
to one basis. Yet the problem is that one cannot protect everyone.
Sacrifices are a part of life. Danzo sees the bigger picture and understands
the purpose of sacrifice. Danzo knows that in order for the forest to
thrive that some leaves must fall. In order for Konoha and the Land
of Fire to stand strong some of it's citizens must be sacrificed.
The problem with Naruto and Tsunade is that they are too hesitant
to make the necessary sacrifices. That's not to say they won't
make the sacrifices but they have trouble letting go. Danzo on
the other hand has the problem of making sacrifices too easily.
Danzo is willing to let anyone die for the sake of the whole
and that includes himself.

Danzo empowered the Foundation with his philosophy. Danzo took
away their emotion to be happy. But he also took away their
emotion to be sad. The Foundation do not have the burden
of bonds. It wasn't until meeting Naruto and Sakura did Sai
Shaft recognize his own bond with his brother. Without them
Sai Shaft would have probably think nothing of it. This is
the guy who said his "brother" died with a straight face.
It means nothing to him. Sakura saw this as cruel but
only because she understands bonds. Sai Shaft didn't.

Danzo is cruel but with a purpose. Danzo is cruel to the Foundation
because he knows the world is cruel. Danzo prepares the Foundation
for the cruelty of the world so that the naive Land of Fire citizens
never have to realize it. The will of fire, which is what Naruto
and Tsunade believe in does not prepare one for life's cruelty.
Naruto was able to battle through all of his adversity because
of his experience with loneliness. Being hated was his preparation.
Tsunade however pretty much mentally collapsed when faced
with the death of her lover and brother. Sai Shaft's best friend/brother
Shin died and Sai Shaft thinks nothing of it as Danzo had prepared
Sai Shaft for such cruelty. Danzo's way knows neither misery
nor happiness. Naruto's way knows both misery and happiness.

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 10:09 AM
They are a Secret Organization maybe they are like the Robin Hoods of Konaha's higher ups. :lol:

also there are many secrets he wants kept secret which is why he has marks on the tounges of his underlings (Sai) so that they can't divulge information.

Maybe he's secretly aiding Konaha like Itachi did because remember He and the other elders and 3rd Hokage had decided that being the only way to stop the Coupe that the Uchiha were planning was to have itachi eliminate them.

it was all benificial to the village's safety

they used itachi to stop a potential inside war in the making

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 10:13 AM
They are a Secret Organization maybe they are like the Robin Hoods of Konaha's higher ups. :lol:

also there are many secrets he wants kept secret which is why he has marks on the tounges of his underlings (Sai) so that they can't divulge information.

Maybe he's secretly aiding Konaha like Itachi did because remember He and the other elders and 3rd Hokage had decided that being the only way to stop the Coupe that the Uchiha were planning was to have itachi eliminate them.

it was all benificial to the village's safety

they used itachi to stop a potential inside war in the making


Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?
Not sure how that relates to Danzo.

Wooster
08-24-2010, 10:17 AM
So much truth in there, Sticky. We all remember what Haku said. That if you have no purpose in life and no one else see you, then you have no life. Foundation members have a very clear purpose. While they are not seen by most, they are seen as a vital tool to protect Konoha at least by other members.
Clearly Danzo's view is more collectivist. The whole matters the individual does not. If anything we could call Danzo's view Eastern and Naruto's Western.

Tsunade really can't deal with individual loss at all. It is her major weakness, and I think it effects her decisions. However, that's not to say that Naruto and Tsunade won't sacrifice. Both of them would sacrifice their own lives; however, sometimes that is not the right thing to do. Danzo understands that preserving his own life matters if there are things only he can do. It is what the Second Hokage taught him. Thus, sometimes others need to be sacrificed for the greater good.

This is not to say I would want to live in a world run by Danzo, but his methods cannot just be easily dismissed as evil and ignored. He is often right and is always consistent with his ideals if nothing else.

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 10:22 AM
So much truth in there, Sticky. We all remember what Haku said. That if you have no purpose in life and no one else see you, then you have no life. Foundation members have a very clear purpose. While they are not seen by most, they are seen as a vital tool to protect Konoha at least by other members.
Clearly Danzo's view is more collectivist. The whole matters the individual does not. If anything we could call Danzo's view Eastern and Naruto's Western.

Tsunade really can't deal with individual loss at all. It is her major weakness, and I think it effects her decisions. However, that's not to say that Naruto and Tsunade won't sacrifice. Both of them would sacrifice their own lives; however, sometimes that is not the right thing to do. Danzo understands that preserving his own life matters if there are things only he can do. It is what the Second Hokage taught him. Thus, sometimes others need to be sacrificed for the greater good.

This is not to say I would want to live in a world run by Danzo, but his methods cannot just be easily dismissed as evil and ignored. He is often right and is always consistent with his ideals if nothing else.


Yep. Tsunade and Naruto are willing to sacrifice their own lives.
But it's important to remember that so is Danzo willing to do the same.

Eastern vs Western? Interesting.
Kinda helps Naruto has blond hair and blue eyes.

Wooster
08-24-2010, 10:26 AM
Yep. Tsunade and Naruto are willing to sacrifice their own lives.
But it's important to remember that so is Danzo willing to do the same.

Eastern vs Western? Interesting.
Kinda helps Naruto has blond hair and blue eyes.
Yes, he does. He does not consider himself above sacrifice, after all the Shimura clan is know for its sacrifice. However, he knows not to throw his life away hastily.

That how I like to think of it. Naruto always believes in himself and thinks anything is possible. Yes, that does work out nicely. Perhaps a new thread?

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 10:28 AM
Yes, he does. He does not consider himself above sacrifice, after all the Shimura clan is know for its sacrifice. However, he knows not to throw his life away hastily.

That how I like to think of it. Naruto always believes in himself and thinks anything is possible. Yes, that does work out nicely. Perhaps a new thread?

Indeed perhaps.

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 10:28 AM
Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?
Not sure how that relates to Danzo.

ohh yea thats not the part i meant here exapmle


Robin hood works in secret but helps others out


Danzo works in secret but helps the village

HinataBG
08-24-2010, 10:39 AM
You know, I used to hate Danzo before reading your post. But now that I have read it, he doesn't seem to be that bad of a character really. I mean yeah, there have been some instances that were terrible, but he really only wanted to do everything to help Konoha. I'm actually starting to like him a little! Thanks for clearing everything up!`:)

Wooster
08-24-2010, 10:40 AM
You know, I used to hate Danzo before reading your post. But now that I have read it, he doesn't seem to be that bad of a character really. I mean yeah, there have been some instances that were terrible, but he really only wanted to do everything to help Konoha. I'm actually starting to like him a little! Thanks for clearing everything up!`:)
This just made my day. My reasoning convinced someone.:D

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 10:41 AM
This just made my day. My reasoning convinced someone.:D

uhhh what about me it convinced me too `:|

Wooster
08-24-2010, 10:48 AM
uhhh what about me it convinced me too `:|
But I like grammar and caps too. `:|

Pain_man_who_became_god
08-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Danzo just stole sharingans for his power. he was a man who had his own selfish ambitions and they could have chose a better kage but hes still pretty cool to me with his tapir. A TAPIR? such a random and cool summon

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 10:49 AM
But I like grammar and caps too. `:|
Well no one is perfect. :???:

Wooster
08-24-2010, 10:53 AM
Danzo just stole sharingans for his power. he was a man who had his own selfish ambitions and they could have chose a better kage but hes still pretty cool to me with his tapir. A TAPIR? such a random and cool summon
We don't know that he stole them.
We do know it was to protect Konoha and control Naruto, which is not exactly selfish.

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 10:57 AM
We don't know that he stole them.
We do know it was to protect Konoha and control Naruto, which not exactly selfish.


TAPIRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

http://homepage.mac.com/lawrencedavid/cuteanimals/brazilian_tapir.jpg

`:PBIT`:P APPROVED!

Wooster
08-24-2010, 11:07 AM
Tapir up. It's over.

mrsticky005
08-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Tapir up. It's over.


Yep.

Tapirs > Slugs

:lol:

Wooster
08-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Yep.

Tapirs > Slugs

:lol:
Tapirs eat slugs for breakfast.

Space Cowboy Sasori
08-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?
Not sure how that relates to Danzo.

Danzo is robin hood of Naruto.

`:P

Inuyasha
08-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Tapirs eat slugs for breakfast.
I lol'd at this :lol:

SimpleGenin
08-27-2010, 04:12 AM
a agree that danzo suffered due to plot, but tsunade suffered more.
tsunade suffered alot cause she is the hokage, people expect her to get everything done herself and to make security better.. but with everything done and ini tip top shape, we wouldnt have the story that we have now.

zerosameri
08-27-2010, 01:44 PM
Danzou = Itachi = bad guy = Plot

In other words Danzou is a bad guy 'cause of plot, so in his defense he's like Itachi.

SimpleGenin
08-27-2010, 04:44 PM
Danzou = Itachi = bad guy = Plot

In other words Danzou is a bad guy 'cause of plot, so in his defense he's like Itachi.
danzo is actually neither.
itachi protected ppl, while danzo just cares about being hokage and to him it doesnt matter who's lives are lost in the process.. itachi and danzo are not alike

zerosameri
08-29-2010, 04:36 PM
danzo is actually neither.
itachi protected ppl, while danzo just cares about being hokage and to him it doesnt matter who's lives are lost in the process.. itachi and danzo are not alike
In terms they are. Itachi was deployed as a bad guy but was secretly good, Danzou was the same with some minor tweeks.

RealNinja
08-29-2010, 04:44 PM
Danzo was the one who got the dirty work ofthe village done. Without him the village probably would have ben alot more weaker.

Wooster
08-30-2010, 06:13 AM
Danzo was the one who got the dirty work ofthe village done. Without him the village probably would have ben alot more weaker.
Weak....


:lol:

SimpleGenin
08-30-2010, 06:30 AM
In terms they are. Itachi was deployed as a bad guy but was secretly good, Danzou was the same with some minor tweeks.
minor tweeks means alot.
unless you think itachi would have done the same thing danzo did in the pain invasion. itachi went all bad to protect lives. itachi would have done something to protect the village. the same village he watched over

Gaara's Girl
08-30-2010, 06:54 AM
@Wooster:

You wrote all of that? `:shock:

I only read untill the Uchiha Massacre and I agree with you in the Hokage thing, although I think his methods aren't the most adequate ones. xD

Wooster
08-30-2010, 07:35 AM
@Wooster:

You wrote all of that? `:shock:

I only read untill the Uchiha Massacre and I agree with you in the Hokage thing, although I think his methods aren't the most adequate ones. xD
Indeed, a long time ago.

Well they are ruthless. ;)

mrsticky005
08-30-2010, 08:08 AM
danzo is actually neither.
itachi protected ppl, while danzo just cares about being hokage and to him it doesnt matter who's lives are lost in the process.. itachi and danzo are not alike


Who did Itachi protect? Not Sasuke certainly. Sasuke is now Madara's Pet.

Perhaps you'll go with the whole Itachi protected the village by eliminating
the threat of the Uchiha clan. Ok, but then that means Danzo protected the village too by ordering Itachi to eliminate the Uchiha clan.

Itachi and Danzo ARE different though.

Danzo would have cleaned up the mess Itachi made by not killing Sasuke.

But oh wait...Itachi was merciful, right? Bah. Then why kill his parents?
Itachi was not merciful. He was selfishly. Why should Sasuke b e one of the last Uchiha to live? Why not any other Uchiha knew? Because he's
Itachi's brother? So somehow a brother is more important than a mother
or a father or a lover or a best friend? Even with letting Sasuke live,
Sasuke has had a miserable existence to the point of being a villain.

Danzo isn't a good guy and he doesn't pretend to be. But he knows what
needs to be done and he doesn't go halfway like Itachi did. If in Itachi's
shoes Danzo would have not killed the clan or the more likely eliminate
everyone and not allow Sasuke to become Madara's new weapon.

Even if Itachi didn't kill the clan. He still allowed it.

And true the same could be said for Danzo.
But then again we're not supposed to feel sorry for Danzo.

Wooster
08-30-2010, 08:30 AM
Who did Itachi protect? Not Sasuke certainly. Sasuke is now Madara's Pet.

Perhaps you'll go with the whole Itachi protected the village by eliminating
the threat of the Uchiha clan. Ok, but then that means Danzo protected the village too by ordering Itachi to eliminate the Uchiha clan.

Itachi and Danzo ARE different though.

Danzo would have cleaned up the mess Itachi made by not killing Sasuke.

But oh wait...Itachi was merciful, right? Bah. Then why kill his parents?
Itachi was not merciful. He was selfishly. Why should Sasuke b e one of the last Uchiha to live? Why not any other Uchiha knew? Because he's
Itachi's brother? So somehow a brother is more important than a mother
or a father or a lover or a best friend? Even with letting Sasuke live,
Sasuke has had a miserable existence to the point of being a villain.

Danzo isn't a good guy and he doesn't pretend to be. But he knows what
needs to be done and he doesn't go halfway like Itachi did. If in Itachi's
shoes Danzo would have not killed the clan or the more likely eliminate
everyone and not allow Sasuke to become Madara's new weapon.

Even if Itachi didn't kill the clan. He still allowed it.

And true the same could be said for Danzo.
But then again we're not supposed to feel sorry for Danzo.Sasuke was truly Itachi's failing. However, I think it is pretty clear that he couldn't spare anyone else. His parents appeared to be the most active in the coup attempt. The nagging question was there any other children, perhaps not.

But Danzo was right, Sasuke was a great threat as long as he lived. One could say it was Danzo's fault for ordering the massacre, but Itachi carried it out anyway. That is a defense of Hiruzen not Itachi. I could go into all the ways Itachi screwed up later with Sasuke, but that's not what this thread is about. See my retcon thread for that. :lol:

I guess Sasuke could have been spared, but the rest really screwed
up on not keeping a close eye on him. Allowing him to run off with Orochimaru was a big bone-headed mistake. Hmm, who was Hokage then? Oh yes, of course.`:|

Gaara's Girl
08-30-2010, 12:43 PM
Indeed, a long time ago.

Well they are ruthless. ;)

I didn't used to come to the Town Bookstore, that's why I didn't see this. Good job! ;)

And sometimes they are unfair.

Wooster
08-30-2010, 12:45 PM
I didn't used to come to the Town Bookstore, that's why I didn't see this. Good job! ;)

And sometimes they are unfair.
Ahh, well tinychat caused it to be bumped. :lol:

Unfair, hmm that I disagree with. How so?

zerosameri
08-30-2010, 02:39 PM
minor tweeks means alot.
unless you think itachi would have done the same thing danzo did in the pain invasion. itachi went all bad to protect lives. itachi would have done something to protect the village. the same village he watched over
You don't get the point :lol:

Wooster
01-06-2011, 09:54 AM
Just because it is the great Danzo's birthday. I shall revive this thread only to say:

DANZO WOULD HAVE KICKED SASUKE'S ASS IF IT WASN'T FOR KARIN AND MADARA

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 10:01 AM
Just because it is the great Danzo's birthday. I shall revive this thread only to say:

DANZO WOULD HAVE KICKED SASUKE'S ASS IF IT WASN'T FOR KARIN AND MADARAYou graved digged have and it did not help the thread in any ways. Your post is nonconstructive to the purpose of this thread `:P

EITHER WAY SASUKE WINS. NO MADARA, NO KARIN, SASUKE WINS. DANZOU IS A OLD HAD WHO GOT ON PULLED OVER ON HIM BY A MOODY, HALF HEAD KID. SASUKE CAN BEAT DANZOUS ASS ANY TIME. :lol:

Wooster
01-06-2011, 10:27 AM
DANZO KILLED SASUKE KARIN REVIVED HIM
'Nuff said

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 10:29 AM
danzo killed sasuke karin revived him
'nuff saidI MUST OF HAD MISSED THAT PART. BECAUSE I DO NO REMEMBER THAT. EITHER WAY DANZOU LOST
Danzou lost.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 11:34 AM
You miss everything. Yes, he lost because of the help Sasuke got from Karin and Madara.
Danzo would have wiped the floor with Sasuke one-on-one. Especially since he caught Sasuke in a seal that Sasuke miraculous defeated using plot no jutsu. :roll:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 11:57 AM
You miss everything. Yes, he lost because of the help Sasuke got from Karin and Madara.
Danzo would have wiped the floor with Sasuke one-on-one. Especially since he caught Sasuke in a seal that Sasuke miraculous defeated using plot no jutsu. :roll:I read the chapters. I know Karin got kicked by Danzou then few into a rock, and suck. Either way with no Karin or Madara, Sasuke would of won regardless. PNJ.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 12:15 PM
No he would have lost. Danzo would have either used Shisui's eye. Auto win.
Or when Danzo stabbed Sasuke with his super-cool wind dagger, Sasuke would have sighed his last emo sigh.

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 12:26 PM
No he would have lost. Danzo would have either used Shisui's eye. Auto win.
Or when Danzo stabbed Sasuke with his super-cool wind dagger, Sasuke would have sighed his last emo sigh.
Sasuke has plot, Sasuke doesn't. If you want a no plot fight then yea, Danzou of won.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 01:20 PM
That's all I am saying. I will concede that Sasuke with EMS probably surpasses Danzo.
Especially since Sasuke now has to be equal with Super Saiyan Naruto and his Rasengameha.

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 01:27 PM
That's all I am saying. I will concede that Sasuke with EMS probably surpasses Danzo.
Especially since Sasuke now has to be equal with Super Saiyan Naruto and his Rasengameha.EMS Sasuke has enough hype to power rape Danzou.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 01:41 PM
EMS Sasuke has enough hype to power rape Danzou.
With Shisui's Danzo probably still wins. Sasuke's genjutsu has always sucked arse. Without it, yeah I guess. >.>

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 02:56 PM
With Shisui's Danzo probably still wins. Sasuke's genjutsu has always sucked arse. Without it, yeah I guess. >.>
Unless I read wrong or Madara lied. Madara said "Danzou wasn't even able to Use Shisui's sharinagn. What a shame"

Wooster
01-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Yes because Madara was there. Geeeeez. :roll:

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 03:03 PM
Yes because Madara was there. Geeeeez. :roll:If Danzou could of had used the sharingan, then he could of mind rap Sasuke and won with in seconds. I don't even think Madara could stop Danzou using Shisui's sharingan any ways.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 03:08 PM
If Danzou could of had used the sharingan, then he could of mind rap Sasuke and won with in seconds. I don't even think Madara could stop Danzou using Shisui's sharingan any ways.
But how then would Danzo defeat Madara? He needs to rejuvenate Shisui's eye between use.

Once again, Madara was the reason Sasuke won. As a corollary, Shisui's could be used to defeat Madara. Both Danzo's actions and Madara's comments confirm this.

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 03:13 PM
But how then would Danzo defeat Madara? He needs to rejuvenate Shisui's eye between use.

Once again, Madara was the reason Sasuke won. As a corollary, Shisui's could be used to defeat Madara. Both Danzo's actions and Madara's comments confirm this.True.

It was more plot than Madara. Yes once it is activated Madara is a goner, unless he can some how manage to warp or Genjutsu Danzou. Madara would lose.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 06:49 PM
True.

It was more plot than Madara. Yes once it is activated Madara is a goner, unless he can some how manage to warp or Genjutsu Danzou. Madara would lose.
Does Madara have much of a genjutsu ability?
All we do know is Danzo's ability is pretty high as he can avoid genjutsu even without Shisui's eye.

zerosameri
01-06-2011, 07:35 PM
Does Madara have much of a genjutsu ability?
All we do know is Danzo's ability is pretty high as he can avoid genjutsu even without Shisui's eye.Izangi, but it's not really a genjutsu. Eh, I don't like he could get out of 100% Itachi's genjutsu

SasukeUchiaZ
01-06-2011, 07:36 PM
danzal evil

Kazumi Saitama
01-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Danzo can suck on a lemon.

Wooster
01-06-2011, 08:42 PM
Izangi, but it's not really a genjutsu. Eh, I don't like he could get out of 100% Itachi's genjutsu
Not that, Shisui's eye. Read up man/woman!

Danzo can suck on a lemon.
Danzo enjoys lemons as do I. :ugeek:

zerosameri
01-07-2011, 03:10 AM
Not that, Shisui's eye. Read up man/woman!


Danzo enjoys lemons as do I. :ugeek:
Who says I was talking about Danzou, withe the Izangi part? Haha :\

mrsticky005
01-07-2011, 04:43 AM
Does Madara have much of a genjutsu ability?
All we do know is Danzo's ability is pretty high as he can avoid genjutsu even without Shisui's eye.


Madara vs Konan shows that yes Madara does
have a very formidable genjutsu ability.

Wooster
01-28-2011, 07:31 AM
Madara vs Konan shows that yes Madara does
have a very formidable genjutsu ability.
You know what would be real awesome? A flashback of a battle between Madara and Danzo as they fight for Shisui's eye.

Danzo does know a lot about Madara, it would make sense that he fought him that time they met.

mrsticky005
01-30-2011, 11:13 PM
You know what would be real awesome? A flashback of a battle between Madara and Danzo as they fight for Shisui's eye.

Danzo does know a lot about Madara, it would make sense that he fought him that time they met.


That would be most excellent. People will of course say Danzo was being greedy getting Shisui's eye but then the alternative of Madara getting it
is much worse.

Wooster
01-31-2011, 04:20 AM
Yes, Madara having it worse and Shisui little better because he was a traitor like all of the Uchiha clan.

mrsticky005
01-31-2011, 06:54 PM
Yes, Madara having it worse and Shisui little better because he was a traitor like all of the Uchiha clan.


I really don't buy the whole Shisui was the victim dealio.

There's something fishy about that dude.

Wooster
02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
Extremely, especially since Kabuto didn't revive him.

Kreegah!!!
02-02-2011, 06:21 AM
Extremely, especially since Kabuto didn't revive him.


Unless he's the mysterious summon!`:shock:


You think he may have sacrificed one eye to Izanagi to make it seem like he had died? *poof* Corpse Clone! And see? A free eye to Danny-Boi! Everybody wins!:idea:

Shikamaru Nara
02-02-2011, 06:38 AM
Unless he's the mysterious summon!`:shock:


You think he may have sacrificed one eye to Izanagi to make it seem like he had died? *poof* Corpse Clone! And see? A free eye to Danny-Boi! Everybody wins!:idea:
No I think he sacrificed Izanagi to create the Zetsus

Wooster
02-02-2011, 07:01 AM
Unless he's the mysterious summon!`:shock:


You think he may have sacrificed one eye to Izanagi to make it seem like he had died? *poof* Corpse Clone! And see? A free eye to Danny-Boi! Everybody wins!:idea:
Certainly a possibility. Madara, want to speak up?

Kreegah!!!
02-03-2011, 10:04 AM
No I think he sacrificed Izanagi to create the Zetsus

Certainly a possibility. Madara, want to speak up?

Eh, I meant Shisui, but unless he had some skin grafts of Mr. 1st, Izanagi's impossible. But Madara might've done just so, indeed.

mrsticky005
02-03-2011, 09:18 PM
Extremely, especially since Kabuto didn't revive him.

Well he didn't summon Jirayia either but at least with that it's explained
a little bit better (Jirayia is in the ocean.)

Unless he's the mysterious summon!`:shock:


You think he may have sacrificed one eye to Izanagi to make it seem like he had died? *poof* Corpse Clone! And see? A free eye to Danny-Boi! Everybody wins!:idea:

I doubt Shisui is the mysterious summon. If he was wouldn't Madara
say "but you already summoned Shisui so why would you try summoning
someone you already summoned.' Both Kabuto and Madara know who
the mysterious summon is.

Certainly a possibility. Madara, want to speak up?

Madara has taken a vow of silence.

Eh, I meant Shisui, but unless he had some skin grafts of Mr. 1st, Izanagi's impossible. But Madara might've done just so, indeed.

I dunno how but Shisui is gonna be an bad dude. he's gonna be like
Prototype Sasuke

Wooster
02-04-2011, 07:08 AM
Yes, Jiraiya is at the bottom of a lake. Shisui's body should be easily obtainable if he did just commit sucide.

Blasted Madara, and he had Sasuke kill the only other person that could possible know the truth. Maybe that's why Madara wanted Danzo killed more than just obtaining the eye.

Kreegah!!!
02-04-2011, 08:07 AM
I dunno how but Shisui is gonna be a bad dude. he's gonna be like
Prototype Sasuke

Yes, he was no paragon of virtue.

Yes, Jiraiya is at the bottom of a lake. Shisui's body should be easily obtainable if he did just commit sucide.

Blasted Madara, and he had Sasuke kill the only other person that could possibly know the truth. Maybe that's why Madara wanted Danzo killed more than just obtaining the eye.

I still find it fascinating that he obsessed so over that eye beyond that of anyone else's. He couldv'e used Itachi's after Sasuke said no at the first. He also never once considered harvesting Danzo's other stolen eyes while he observed the guy's last fight, or could he be unaware that the eyes can be trained outside the host body as Kakashi had done? I can't remember whether Madara knew of his mangekyo power before or after the Danzo Death fiasco, but damn that was a wasted treasure trove of ocular power. He should have made a move earlier in the fight. :shock:

Wooster
02-04-2011, 08:29 AM
I think everything was sealed when Dnazo used Izangi. There was much left for Madara to steal except the crushed Shisui's eye.

Kreegah!!!
02-05-2011, 07:47 AM
Yes, but he couldv'e intervened earlier is what I meant. After all, it's not as if he missed seeing them during the Sasuke/Danzo fight.

Wooster
02-05-2011, 09:52 AM
Madara might hav lost if he intervened earlier. Danzo is tough after all.

Secondly, Madara needed Sasuk to go apeshit, and lose his vision. We Madara desperately wanted Sasuke to take Itachi's eyes.

mrsticky005
02-06-2011, 04:41 AM
Yes, Jiraiya is at the bottom of a lake. Shisui's body should be easily obtainable if he did just commit sucide.

Blasted Madara, and he had Sasuke kill the only other person that could possible know the truth. Maybe that's why Madara wanted Danzo killed more than just obtaining the eye.


What about Homura and Koharu?

Wooster
02-06-2011, 05:29 AM
Who now?

Kreegah!!!
02-06-2011, 06:11 AM
What about Homura and Koharu?

Who now?


The two elders always seated at the Third's side in his administrative office or whatever you'd call it.

Wooster
02-06-2011, 06:16 AM
Oh, yeah. They know nothing.

Inuyasha
02-06-2011, 07:48 AM
Danzo is a crafty old man

But seeing as how he is in charge of the Anbu who have done nothing but keep the village safe

Is he really in the wrong with his true intentions maybe or maybe not

mrsticky005
02-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Danzo is a crafty old man

But seeing as how he is in charge of the Anbu who have done nothing but keep the village safe

Is he really in the wrong with his true intentions maybe or maybe not

Hokage is actually in charge of Anbu. Danzo is in charge of an Anbu faction
called "The Foundation" that takes direct orders from himself rather than the
Hokage. Danzo still wants to protect the village. He just doesn't trust the
Hokage to protect the village.



By the way to Wooster...

Homura and Koharu were named by Madara to be those "who know the truth about Itachi"

Wooster
02-07-2011, 06:45 AM
But that doesn't mean they know anything about Danzo and Madara's meeting.

mrsticky005
02-07-2011, 08:13 AM
But that doesn't mean they know anything about Danzo and Madara's meeting.


true

they do seem clueless.

I think Danzo trusted them minimally.

Wooster
02-07-2011, 10:13 AM
I think that was a good move on Danzo's part. Sure they may be more competent than Tsunade, but that's a low-senile bar.

Kreegah!!!
02-07-2011, 05:09 PM
Apparently jutsu used to make her younger reduces the effectiveness of her cognition and battle prowess. Danzo's only flaw, aside from killing an awesome amphibian messenger, was to trust too few people. If he had but one more friend, he might've overcome Sasuke or avoided the mess entirely.

mrsticky005
02-12-2011, 06:46 AM
Apparently jutsu used to make her younger reduces the effectiveness of her cognition and battle prowess. Danzo's only flaw, aside from killing an awesome amphibian messenger, was to trust too few people. If he had but one more friend, he might've overcome Sasuke or avoided the mess entirely.


Yeah but considering Danzo is of the Black Ops
it's not surprising he be so wary.

Kreegah!!!
02-12-2011, 06:59 AM
Yeah but considering Danzo is of the Black Ops
it's not surprising he be so wary.


That's the problem with espionage. It breeds paranoia.

Did you know that the only corvids who horde their food and treasures in well-hidden niches are the ones who've themselves stolen?

Danzo needed to retire long ago. Ah, well, Sai will carry on his legacy. ;)

TheBlackChidori
02-13-2011, 04:45 PM
True of false: Danzo may have been apart of the cout that attacked and killed the 2nd Hokage(They were cloud ninja)

could have a relation to the hax bros

Devil's Lawyer
02-13-2011, 05:35 PM
False considering he was right there when the second died. Also he was pretty much loyal to the second from what I have seen. Nothing to say otherwise.

mrsticky005
02-14-2011, 04:28 AM
False considering he was right there when the second died. Also he was prettymuch loyal to the second from what I have seen. Nothing to say otherwise.


Danzo seemed like he respected the 2nd.

It was the first he and third he hated.

Kreegah!!!
02-14-2011, 05:19 AM
True of false: Danzo may have been apart of the cout that attacked and killed the 2nd Hokage(They were cloud ninja)

could have a relation to the hax bros

What the? I couldv'e sworn that said Madara earlier. Man I need to get more sleep.`:shock:


I'm with the other guys, then, as Danzo seemed to appreciate him more than the others.

Wooster
02-14-2011, 06:38 AM
Danzo seemed like he respected the 2nd.

It was the first he and third he hated.
That seems to be the case. Danzo did follow Tobirama's final words until the bitter end.

Kreegah!!!
02-14-2011, 04:25 PM
That seems to be the case. Danzo did follow Tobirama's final words until the bitter end.


The greatest hero the Leaf will never know.


Certainly better than that blonde trollop who came before.

Wooster
02-15-2011, 08:04 AM
He is pretty much a hero. He took care of the menace of the Uchiha, and was the only one that had a serious plan to take down Madara.

His downfall was becoming Hokage. As Madara said, Danzo should have stayed hidden in Foundation. Danzo works best behind the scenes.

Kreegah!!!
02-15-2011, 01:59 PM
He is pretty much a hero. He took care of the menace of the Uchiha, and was the only one that had a serious plan to take down Madara.

His downfall was becoming Hokage. As Madara said, Danzo should have stayed hidden in Foundation. Danzo works best behind the scenes.

Which makes him one of the few actual factual ninjas. Even when he unveils some of his mighty power he waits until he's far from any roving eyes. I think he simultaneously starved for recognition while realizing he should hide his true powers and exploits until absolutely necessary. He even rarely brags in battle or explains his powers. IIRC, other characters had to exposit his powers b/c he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut, something not even Oro and Kakashi have fully managed.

His morals in respect to his treatment of Shinobi is certainly reprehensible, but otherwise he honestly is the best character in the series, and the wisest.

Wooster
02-15-2011, 08:14 PM
Which makes him one of the few actual factual ninjas. Even when he unveils some of his mighty power he waits until he's far from any roving eyes. I think he simultaneously starved for recognition while realizing he should hide his true powers and exploits until absolutely necessary. He even rarely brags in battle or explains his powers. IIRC, other characters had to exposit his powers b/c he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut, something not even Oro and Kakashi have fully managed.

His morals in respect to his treatment of Shinobi is certainly reprehensible, but otherwise he honestly is the best character in the series, and the wisest.
Exactly. Danzo epitomizes the Shinobi way. He at least needs to be respected as a character. He did not reveal his powers, although he sort of let Sasuke trick him into revealing the Izangi. But come to think of it Danzo hit Sasuke with nearly all of his attacks. Sasuke just broke out of thiem for no good reason.

Danzo is wise , no doubt about that.

Sosuke
02-16-2011, 03:34 AM
Which makes him one of the few actual factual ninjas. Even when he unveils some of his mighty power he waits until he's far from any roving eyes. I think he simultaneously starved for recognition while realizing he should hide his true powers and exploits until absolutely necessary. He even rarely brags in battle or explains his powers. IIRC, other characters had to exposit his powers b/c he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut, something not even Oro and Kakashi have fully managed.

His morals in respect to his treatment of Shinobi is certainly reprehensible, but otherwise he honestly is the best character in the series, and the wisest.

I aint to sure, I think the 3rd or Kakashi are worthy of that title.

Kreegah!!!
02-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Exactly. Danzo epitomizes the Shinobi way. He at least needs to be respected as a character. He did not reveal his powers, although he sort of let Sasuke trick him into revealing the Izangi. But come to think of it Danzo hit Sasuke with nearly all of his attacks. Sasuke just broke out of thiem for no good reason.

Danzo is wise , no doubt about that.

I just now read the first posts. I haven't said anything new >_<

I aint to sure, I think the 3rd or Kakashi are worthy of that title.


Wise, but not as wise.

Wooster
02-17-2011, 01:59 PM
In would be hard because we all said a lot. :lol:

Kreegah!!!
02-17-2011, 06:09 PM
It would be hard because we all said a lot. :lol:

That's the thing though. Had I read it all before posting like any sensible lad, I'd never even have posted here because all I thought on the matter has already been stated. In the first post.`:shock:

It's like that time where Isaac Newton and that other dude came up with Earth's circumference at the same time, but only Newton's remembered and my statement was made well after thread creation.


Hard to find a facepalm moment worse than this in the world of discussions.:shock:

Poodle
02-18-2011, 07:06 PM
Yeah Danzo is right wing Republican

Wooster
02-19-2011, 07:50 AM
That's the thing though. Had I read it all before posting like any sensible lad, I'd never even have posted here because all I thought on the matter has already been stated. In the first post.`:shock:

It's like that time where Isaac Newton and that other dude came up with Earth's circumference at the same time, but only Newton's remembered and my statement was made well after thread creation.


Hard to find a facepalm moment worse than this in the world of discussions.:shock:I suppose, but you could have written something completely useless like below.

Yeah Danzo is right wing Republican

Kreegah!!!
02-19-2011, 11:45 AM
xD Yeah, but at least it gave me a chuckle.

Wooster
02-26-2011, 03:51 AM
Anyone think we will learn something amazing about Danzo and Naturo will name his kid Hiruzen Danzo? :lol:

Kreegah!!!
02-26-2011, 05:31 AM
Anyone think we will learn something amazing about Danzo and Naturo will name his kid Hiruzen Danzo? :lol:

Nah, Tobi Danzo. Not to be confused with Tony Danza.;)

Gin
03-04-2011, 11:52 AM
Tl;dr. But I do think that he had reasons for what he did. He just did all of this inexcusable crap, though... but I'm glad he tried to kill Sasuke. He deserves a salute for that.

Kreegah!!!
03-05-2011, 06:20 PM
Tl;dr. But I do think that he had reasons for what he did. He just did all of this inexcusable crap, though... but I'm glad he tried to kill Sasuke. He deserves a salute for that.

No, he deserves Kage for that.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Alright, you know the two sons of the sage of the six paths? The Uchiha Ancestor and The Senju Ancestor. Remember their roads to peace? Uchiha Ancestor was through strength and the Senju Ancestor was through love. Usually we think the representatives for this are Madara/Hashirama and Naruto/Sasuke. However I think there's a major problem on the Uchiha side. Namely, Madara who although he may wish for strength clearly does not care for peace. Madara himself admitted this
when he agreed with Naruto that he is nothing like Nagato who wanted peace.
Madara is a war lord. With peace he would have no purpose. As for Sasuke he
may redeem himself later on but as long as he stays on the path Madara is
treading he will continue to fall into an abyss of hatred and despair. One then
might think that the Uchiha Ancestor's goal towards peace was a failure.
However even though the Uchiha Ancestor and all his descendants have failed
I think his mind set and his will has not. From the Senju Ancestor the Will of Fire
was born. The Uchiha Ancestor on the other hand has a different will that would
pass on not to the Uchiha Clan but to Tobirama Senju, and eventually Danzo
Shimura. Danzo Shimura carried out the will and legacy of the Uchiha Ancestor:
He truly believed that the road to peace was through strength. Unlike Madara
despite what it may have seemed Danzo was not in it for his own reward.
Yes, Danzo wants to be Hokage but why? To change the world for the better.
This is far less selfish than Naruto who initially wanted to become Hokage to get status. Though as Naruto saw that he was not the only one with problems he too
wished to make things better (for example end the strife of the Hyuga Clan.)
And unlike Sasuke and to an extent the Uchiha Ancestor, Danzo is not controlled by his emotions. While Danzo opposed Hiruzen he didn't sway from his true goal of
obtaining peace for the ninja world and especially for Konoha. In a sense Danzo
opposed Hiruzen because he saw him as an obstacle to peace. Like the Uchiha
Ancestor he probably thought that Hiruzen's methods for peace were too soft.
Unfortunately Danzo himself would not succeed in his quest for peace. He fought
against Sasuke and sadly died. Sasuke fought for the power of hate. Danzo fought for the power of peace. Danzo lost because having the Sharingan, the eyes of the Uchiha
and of hatred his love was tainted. Danzo too would befall the curse of the Uchiha.
However Danzo has passed on the will of the Uchiha Ancestor, that peace is founded
through strength to his student Sai Shaft. Sai Shaft has no Uchiha blood nor has he
been cursed with the Sharingan, a tool of power and of hatred. Sai Shaft carries
the torch of the will of Danzo of Tobirama and the Uchiha Ancestor. And while
Sai Shaft may not be the one to actually achieve peace he has direct influence
on Naruto Uzumaki. Through the will of fire Naruto has received the will of the Senju Ancestor. The road to peace through love. Yet this road leads to victim hood.
It's as Sasuke said "You either kill me or be killed." Yet because Sai Shaft bequeathed to Naruto the will of Danzo, Tobirama and the Uchiha Ancestor and he already had
the will of fire and the will of the Senju, Naruto was able to choose the third option:
Self Sacrifice. A road to peace that requires both love but also requires strength.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 12:39 PM
Naruto and Danzo are like the two sides. I have said that many times before. I don't Danzo every has anything like love that is an emotion and thus bad.

That Naruto may combine schools of thought of the sons back into one is an interesting thought. If sai Shaft helps Naruto do this, I will almost forgive Kishimoto fro not giving us the Naruto and Danzo civil war.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 12:50 PM
Naruto and Danzo are like the two sides. I have said that many times before. I don't Danzo every has anything like love that is an emotion and thus bad.

That Naruto may combine schools of thought of the sons back into one is an interesting thought. If sai Shaft helps Naruto do this, I will almost forgive Kishimoto fro not giving us the Naruto and Danzo civil war.

Ok I changed it from Danzo fighting for the power of love to the power of peace. You're right Danzo does not believe in love. Yet I do think he believes in peace. I think Danzo was the true heir to the Uchiha Ancestor and I think Sai Shaft will if he hasn't already carry on Danzo's legacy to Naruto. People like Hiruzen who preach the will of fire see that love is
the way to peace. Yet as long as the accursed hatred of the Uchiha
clan exists this will be a road to victimhood. Danzo on the other hand
preached the will of the Uchiha Ancestor (not to be confused with the Uchiha Clan) and this was a road to peace through strength. Yet this
road leads to conflict. Hiruzen was too soft and got taken advantage
of. Naruto had been walking this same path of victim hood. Danzo on
the other hand was perhaps too harsh and lost clarity because he
was blinded by the cursed hatred of the Uchiha Clan. Naruto, will
succeed because he will have both strength and love to reach peace.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Ok I changed it from Danzo fighting for the power of love to the power of peace. You're right Danzo does not believe in love. Yet I do think he believes in peace. I think Danzo was the true heir to the Uchiha Ancestor and I think Sai Shaft will if he hasn't already carry on Danzo's legacy to Naruto. People like Hiruzen who preach the will of fire see that love is
the way to peace. Yet as long as the accursed hatred of the Uchiha
clan exists this will be a road to victimhood. Danzo on the other hand
preached the will of the Uchiha Ancestor (not to be confused with the Uchiha Clan) and this was a road to peace through strength. Yet this
road leads to conflict. Hiruzen was too soft and got taken advantage
of. Naruto had been walking this same path of victim hood. Danzo on
the other hand was perhaps too harsh and lost clarity because he
was blinded by the cursed hatred of the Uchiha Clan. Naruto, will
succeed because he will have both strength and love to reach peace.
Yes Danzo believe in peace. He also believes emotions lead to the destruction of peace.
Hiruzen did preach the will of fire, but he was quite the hard ass. He still believed in the shinobi way. Nauro view is different. He is trying to fulfill Jiraiya ideals and Tsunade pretty much believe whatever Naruto does.
I don't blame Naruto for his beliefs, but I certainly do blame Tsunade. Naruto is struggling to come up with a way of peace and love; Tsunade is just brain dead.

I think Naruto won't be in between Hiruzen and Danzo per se, but he does notw seem to understand power is important.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 01:15 PM
Yes Danzo believe in peace. He also believes emotions lead to the destruction of peace.
Hiruzen did preach the will of fire, but he was quite the hard ass. He still believed in the shinobi way. Nauro view is different. He is trying to fulfill Jiraiya ideals and Tsunade pretty much believe whatever Naruto does.
I don't blame Naruto for his beliefs, but I certainly do blame Tsunade. Naruto is struggling to come up with a way of peace and love; Tsunade is just brain dead.

I think Naruto won't be in between Hiruzen and Danzo per se, but he does notw seem to understand power is important.

Tsunade is the epitome of the victimhood of the Senju clan.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Plus, Hiruzen was gimped to make a good foil to Danzo. He was a hard ass at least on the outside. It wasn't needed. Tsunade is pathetic no matter whose teachings she is following.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 01:21 PM
Plus, Hiruzen was gimped to make a good foil to Danzo. He was a hard ass at least on the outside. It wasn't needed. Tsunade is pathetic no matter whose teachings she is following.

Gotta love how our Pro Danzo threads turn to Anti Tsunade threads.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:22 PM
Everything good about Danzo is bad about Tsunade. Who really thought she could be a leader? If she is not following someone, she is just being petulant. I had more respect for her when she was a drunken gambler.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 01:24 PM
Everything good about Danzo is bad about Tsunade. Who really thought she could be a leader? If she is not following someone, she is just being petulant. I had more respect for her when she was a drunken gambler.

The greatest thing Tsunade has ever done for the village is be in a coma.
At the same time it was the worst thing she done because it led to the
demise of Danzo. Danzo selflessly sacrificed himself for the good of Konoha.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:26 PM
The greatest thing she ever did was abandon the village. Given that Jiraiya would have refused to be Hokage that would have made it a cinch for Danzo to lead.

I blame Naruto for bringing her back. What was he thinking?

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 01:28 PM
The greatest thing she ever did was abandon the village. Given that Jiraiya would have refused to be Hokage that would have made it a cinch for Danzo to lead.

I blame Naruto for bringing her back. What was he thinking?

Forgot about that. Yeah she should have left the village and THEN go in a coma.

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Wish Kabuto would have killed her before Jiraiya arrived.

I guess then Sasuke would be stuck in a permanent coma...I guess that would have work out actually.

Here is a thought, how awesome would it be if the first part was rewritten from Danzo's or Root's perspective" Like they tried to make sure Sasuke didn't wake up or were planting thoughts into Jiraiya's, so he wouldn't want to be Hokage.

Or their gravest error, trying to get Tsunade to return, so they could have puppet Hokage only to find Naruto had changed her pessimistic, hopeless attitude into the Tsunade we despise today.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 01:41 PM
Wish Kabuto would have killed her before Jiraiya arrived.

I guess then Sasuke would be stuck in a permanent coma...I guess that would have work out actually.

Here is a thought, how awesome would it be if the first part was rewritten from Danzo's or Root's perspective" Like they tried to make sure Sasuke didn't wake up or were planting thoughts into Jiraiya's, so he wouldn't want to be Hokage.

Or their gravest error, trying to get Tsunade to return, so they could have puppet Hokage only to find Naruto had changed her pessimistic, hopeless attitude into the Tsunade we despise today.


So Tsunade is the failed machinations of Danzo???`:|

Wooster
03-17-2011, 01:50 PM
So Tsunade is the failed machinations of Danzo???`:|
He was concentrating on the Mist village and Orochimaru at the time no doubt. Probably a subordinate did it.

mrsticky005
03-17-2011, 05:05 PM
He was concentrating on the Mist village and Orochimaru at the time no doubt. Probably a subordinate did it.

No wonder Danzo trusts nobody else.

Kreegah!!!
03-18-2011, 04:20 PM
Gotta love how our Pro Danzo threads turn to Anti Tsunade threads.

I'm not quite as resentful of her presence as Wooster is, but I do agree with his character assessment of her. If she doesn't wise up, she will lead the Leaf, and indeed the Alliance, into destruction.

The greatest thing she ever did was abandon the village. Given that Jiraiya would have refused to be Hokage that would have made it a cinch for Danzo to lead.

I blame Naruto for bringing her back. What was he thinking?

He was thinking she sucked as a leader, remember? Blame Jiraiya. He was so against being Hokage that he went for the immediate out of another Sannin instead of suggesting other potentially good candidates.

Forgot about that. Yeah she should have left the village and THEN go in a coma.

:lol:

Wish Kabuto would have killed her before Jiraiya arrived.

I guess then Sasuke would be stuck in a permanent coma...I guess that would have work out actually.

Here is a thought, how awesome would it be if the first part was rewritten from Danzo's or Root's perspective" Like they tried to make sure Sasuke didn't wake up or were planting thoughts into Jiraiya's, so he wouldn't want to be Hokage.

Or their gravest error, trying to get Tsunade to return, so they could have puppet Hokage only to find Naruto had changed her pessimistic, hopeless attitude into the Tsunade we despise today.

This theory is lovely. An orchestrated plot schemed by Danzo and the Elders. Love it!

So Tsunade is the failed machinations of Danzo???`:|

Any other way it could work??? I think this fills in many plot holes.

He was concentrating on the Mist village and Orochimaru at the time no doubt. Probably a subordinate did it.

The Elder Advisers.

No wonder Danzo trusts nobody else.

Yeah, that was quite the screw-up, wasn't it?

At least Sai Shaft and Naruto stand at the ready, vigilant against the approaching threat.:cool:

And your assessment on The Will of the Two RS Broskis is quite good, Sticky, I must say.:ugeek:

Wooster
03-18-2011, 04:35 PM
No wonder Danzo trusts nobody else.
He trust Sai Shaft to get funky.
/plays Isaac Hayes
I'm not quite as resentful of her presence as Wooster is, but I do agree with his character assessment of her. If she doesn't wise up, she will lead the Leaf, and indeed the Alliance, into destruction.
You should be. She did destroy Konoha with her ineptitude and arrogance.



He was thinking she sucked as a leader, remember? Blame Jiraiya. He was so against being Hokage that he went for the immediate out of another Sannin instead of suggesting other potentially good candidates.

By why didn't he use Shisui's eye on the elders or something. How can one blame Jiraiya? He at least had the wisdom to knwo he would be a poor Hokage and bow out.


:lol:



This theory is lovely. An orchestrated plot schemed by Danzo and the Elders. Love it!

It would be interesting. It's retcon I support.


Any other way it could work??? I think this fills in many plot holes.

Danzo just got outvoted. Maybe that's why he started to get involved and leave the shadows. He saw how incomptent everyone from the Daimyo to the elders to the Jonin council were.

[quotw]
The Elder Advisers.
[/quote]
Why didn't Sasuke kill them instead. :/


Yeah, that was quite the screw-up, wasn't it?

At least Sai Shaft and Naruto stand at the ready, vigilant against the approaching threat.:cool:

And your assessment on The Will of the Two RS Broskis is quite good, Sticky, I must say.:ugeek:
Yes, yes it was.

Sai Shaft!

Kreegah!!!
03-18-2011, 08:05 PM
You should be. She did destroy Konoha with her ineptitude and arrogance. I have the hots for ol' granny, what can I say??

By why didn't he use Shisui's eye on the elders or something. How can one blame Jiraiya? He at least had the wisdom to knwo he would be a poor Hokage and bow out.Still getting used to it maybe. That much yes, but he suggested what, one other person before suggesting Tsunade? Face it, he wasn't thinking of the village, he was just trying to ditch those two bags.

Danzo just got outvoted. Maybe that's why he started to get involved and leave the shadows. He saw how incomptent everyone from the Daimyo to the elders to the Jonin council were. Likely hypothesis. Masashi, are you listening??


The Elder Advisers.

Why didn't Sasuke kill them instead. :/
He isn't particularly bright outside academics??

Sai Shaft!


Seconded and in the Boldies.

Wooster
03-21-2011, 07:27 AM
I want the First part rewritten with Danzo now. This must happen!

Kreegah!!!
03-22-2011, 12:34 PM
You mean Part 1 of Naruto or the First part of something else that I'm oblivious to?

Wooster
03-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Part 1 Naruto.

mrsticky005
03-23-2011, 09:42 AM
I want the First part rewritten with Danzo now. This must happen!

It must.

In a way Danzo himself is a retcon. Where was he in Part 1?

Kreegah!!!
03-23-2011, 11:47 AM
He wasn't seen in Part 1 because his stealth mode status was unparalleled. He was seen in Part 2 b/c of plot and oldness getting to him.

Skrall
04-06-2011, 04:04 PM
Danzo also seemed to betray Konoha to Orochimaru to become Hokage. However, his actual goal was to kill Sasuke. Now that nearly everyone except Naruto believes Sasuke should be killed, we can say that Danzo was just thinking ahead of everyone else.


I have a question regarding Danzo's affection and dedication towards the village.

Danzo was aware that the best way he could get close to Sasuke was by gaining Orochimaru's trust. So he did the unthinkable and gave Sai a folder with data intel about the ANBU corporations of Konoha in it, so that he could give it to Orochimaru as a sign of trust.

Wouldn't this put the citzens of Konoha in a problematic situation just because Danzo wanted to eleminate a single person? Even though Sasuke is an international proble to be dealt with, I don't offering Orochimaru intel about the Leaf would solve the problem. Orochimaru could have re-attacked the village and caused severe damaged to the village and its residents.

Wooster
04-06-2011, 09:00 PM
They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.

Kreegah!!!
04-07-2011, 11:02 AM
I have a question regarding Danzo's affection and dedication towards the village.

Danzo was aware that the best way he could get close to Sasuke was by gaining Orochimaru's trust. So he did the unthinkable and gave Sai a folder with data intel about the ANBU corporations of Konoha in it, so that he could give it to Orochimaru as a sign of trust.

Wouldn't this put the citzens of Konoha in a problematic situation just because Danzo wanted to eleminate a single person? Even though Sasuke is an international proble to be dealt with, I don't offering Orochimaru intel about the Leaf would solve the problem. Orochimaru could have re-attacked the village and caused severe damaged to the village and its residents.

Sadly, every spy agency in the real world's guilty of such tactics.

They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.


Exactly. Tsunade is strong and hot and not a leader. She could go run a brothel, maybe.`@x)

mrsticky005
04-27-2011, 04:37 PM
They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.

I think people confuse the fact that Danzo opposes Tsunade
with thinking that Danzo opposes the village.

Really the only reason Danzo has to resort to such tactics
is because he has to. Remember that Kakashi was the immediate
choice for Hokage. Not because of his abilities but because
he was trained under Minato and his father was the White Fang.
Kakashi would have become Hokage for his relationships.

Wooster
04-27-2011, 04:40 PM
Nepotism is hard to fight.

mrsticky005
05-02-2011, 11:10 PM
I am a Danzo Fan. However, I regret to say that I wasn't always. I did think Danzo was an interesting character. But as a villain. I even thought that
Danzo would join the Akatsuki though it would be to stab Madara in the
back. I could not see the truth of Danzo. But Brother Wooster showed me
the light of Danzo and of the truth of Sai Shaft. I was blind but now I see...
That Danzo is awesome, and although not quite a "good guy" he's not evil
either. Wooster and I have been spreading the love of Danzo and Sai Shaft.
Some have converted. But others hold fast to their hatred of Danzo and
lead others astray with false idols like Princess Tsunade and The Sauce.
But just like Final Fantasy 4, it appears that before I can truly put an end
to the hatred of Danzo. I must first defeat....MYSELF!! That's right!
It's mrsticky005 vs mrsticky005. Will I be able to argue against myself
and show my former self that I was wrong about Danzo before but now
have come to know the truth that is the awesomeness of Danzo?

Let the Battle Begin.

First A quote from my old, foolish way of thinking...


Danzo a good guy

let's see...

1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do
2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist
3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village
4. He killed the messenger frog
5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages
6. He supported the Uchiha massacre
7. He used mind control on people
8. He tried to kill Sasuke
9. He has connections with Orochimaru
10. He probably has connections with Madara
11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja
12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader
13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.

Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P

mrsticky005
05-02-2011, 11:27 PM
Danzo a good guy

Danzo isn't quite a good guy in the way Naruto is. But he does love Konoha. Though he is not a bad guy. Not like Madar.


let's see...

1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do

Not quite. He trained them to complete the mission. Which is really
what all ninja are supposed to do. Danzo just trained them so they
wouldn't be clouded by their emotions. Which as we can see led
to many problems in the ninja world. Namely: The Sauce.


2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist

I agree. Danzo is cruel for sure. But unlike Madara who probably
had the Bloody Mist for his own twisted enjoyment. Danzo used
similar methods to rid The Foundation of emotion so they could
better complete the mission. Missions which we must remember
which were for the sake of Konoha.

3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village

Which was a smart move considering that Madara wanted
and would have probably got it had Danzo not do this.
Danzo even crushed his (Shisui's) eye to prevent Madara
from getting Shisui's eye.

4. He killed the messenger frog

This was to keep Naruto from being captured. Sure Naruto learned
Sage Mode and was able to beat Pain but how was Danzo to know
this? As far as Danzo was concerned, Naruto was at risk of being
captured (and he nearly was.) Danzo was protecting Nine Tails
from getting captured by Akatsuki and in a sense Naruto too.

5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages

Rightfully so. Especially Tsunade. She let Sasuke go to Orochimaru
and she didn't even bother to fight Pain despite being Hokage.

6. He supported the Uchiha massacre

Which was necessary seeing how they wanted a coup d'etat.

7. He used mind control on people

To create a Ninja Alliance...which was created anyways.
Danzo did this to fight against Madara. Danzo saw the problem
before everyone else did.

8. He tried to kill Sasuke

And now so is everyone. Again Danzo saw the problem first.

9. He has connections with Orochimaru

So does Jirayia. Does that make Jirayia evil?

10. He probably has connections with Madara

Danzo and Madara probably have some sort of history but they
are definitely not working together.

11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja

They attacked first.

12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader

He wanted to unite the ninja world. He wanted to be in charge
because he didn't think anyone else was capable. Mifune showed this.

13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.

True he was going to sacrifice Tsunade. But Danzo wasn't planning to sacrifice Konoha. Danzo was likely planning to defeat Nagato after
Tsunade was done away with. But Naruto arrived and luckily
did not get captured.


Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P

Danzo rules!

Wooster
05-03-2011, 06:35 AM
Sticky v. Sticky Round 2.0

I must support Sticky!

Danzo a good guy
No, not exactly
let's see...
Okay
1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do
Exactly, he trained SAI SHAFT!!! That already makes him awesome.
2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist
True, but he took orphans in and tried to make them better. It's like Annie, sure the Lady that runs the orphanage seems evil, but seem turns to have the orphans best interest at heart even if she is harsh.
3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village
Shisui was evil and was plotting the destruction of Konoha, and why let a powerul jutsu like that go to waste?
4. He killed the messenger frog
To protect the nine Tails fox from the Akatsuki. He had to ddeal with Tsunade's stupidity. Drastic stupidity calls for drastic measures.
5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages
He HATES Tsunade, but who wouldn't? He believe Sarutobi followed the wrong path, but greatly respects him. He seems to follow Tobirama's ideas, one of the founders of Konoha.
6. He supported the Uchiha massacre
They were traitors. They had to be killed.
7. He used mind control on people
Only on Mifune to save the ninja world from Madara. Mifune later acted like it was his idea anyway. If Ao didn't detect Danzo, there would have been no problem. If they were united against Madara, perhaps they might have captured Sasuke or even Madara when he appeared.
8. He tried to kill Sasuke
Everyone wants to kill Sasuke including Sakura. The only exception is Tsunade and Naruto. Naruto at least will kill both of them if necessary.
9. He has connections with Orochimaru
Only to use Orochimaru's knowledge. Sarutobi let him escape.
10. He probably has connections with Madara
Yes, and they tried to kill each other as soon as they met. Danzo whole goal as a ninja is to stop Madara.
11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja
They attacked first.
12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader
Everyone wants to unite the ninja world. He should be the leader because it was his idea and he knows the most about Madara and will not let his emotion get in the way of the good of all.
13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.
To get rid Tsunade. At least he didn't taunt Pain into destroying Konoha or almost have the Nine Tailed Fox kill everyone.

Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P
Danzo is Danzo. RESPECT THE WHEAT!

mrsticky005
05-03-2011, 08:36 AM
Sticky v. Sticky Round 2.0

I must support Sticky!

Danzo is Danzo. RESPECT THE WHEAT!


Excellent. Show no mercy to Danzo haters! Even if they used to me.

BTW, I find it hilarious how I actually tried defending the Hanya Ninja.

Wooster
05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
I think that was because you just wanted to be contrary. :lol:

mrsticky005
05-03-2011, 09:14 AM
I think that was because you just wanted to be contrary. :lol:

True. I think even when I was against Danzo I always had fun talking about him. Even when I thought he didn't have Konoha's best interests at hand
he was at least a really interesting villain. In short Danzo was never dull.

Wooster
05-03-2011, 09:18 AM
True, Danzo added spice to the series. AS my OP states, I did not want to convince people to like Danzo or thing he was a good guy, I explicitly stated that he was not, but to respect him.

Judious
05-03-2011, 09:28 AM
Someone stole your thread and putted it on NF

Wooster
05-03-2011, 10:36 AM
I assume they did not credit me?

I need to make an account and raise holy hell. :evil:

Would you mind PMing me a link, sir?

Skrall
05-03-2011, 10:47 AM
I need to see this. :lol:

Judious, PM the link please.

Wooster
05-03-2011, 11:02 AM
Bah, I give up. I cannot find it.

Kreegah!!!
05-03-2011, 11:57 AM
It's never fun to receive no credit due us, but I implore Brother Wooster to rest easy in the knowledge that that hapless baffoon's exploits will only spread the message of Danzo's legitimacy--of his competence and fashionable outlook.

The message has gone out, may the all bear witness!

Wooster
05-03-2011, 01:52 PM
But you cannot post my brilliant Danzo gospel unaided. Posting this without defense will cause even more negativity to be brought upon Danzo's head. Did you see the response I received over a year ago?

I weep for Danzo now more than ever.

Kreegah!!!
05-03-2011, 03:12 PM
We must be more vigilant, then. A priest of Danzo has run amok!

Judious
05-03-2011, 03:17 PM
I assume they did not credit me?

I need to make an account and raise holy hell. :evil:

Would you mind PMing me a link, sir?


A dupe made it. It

mrsticky005
05-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Bah, I give up. I cannot find it.

I made a replacement one saying that you're the original author
and that they can view the thread here. I didn't bother to copy
the actual thread because they should read it here.

Wooster
05-03-2011, 08:19 PM
I made a replacement one saying that you're the original author
and that they can view the thread here. I didn't bother to copy
the actual thread because they should read it here.
Keen beans.

Ishtar
05-15-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm a neutral when it comes to Danzo. I did like him though. Never disliked him at all at any point.

mrsticky005
05-16-2011, 06:22 PM
I'm a neutral when it comes to Danzo. I did like him though. Never disliked him at all at any point.

Did like him?

Uchiha Sonake
05-16-2011, 07:23 PM
I understand your viewpoint but the uchiha massacre grew from DANZO's (among others) treatment of the Uchiha, spiting them and forcing them to live away from the others in the village. It was the Uchiha who planned the coup d'etat, but this plan came about from the ruthlessness of Danzo (amoung others). Although he is the old shinobi way perfected, Konoha has always been the exception. The Senju have always been the exeption. So the question should be, why is Danzo the way he is?

Wooster
05-16-2011, 07:25 PM
I understand your viewpoint but the uchiha massacre grew from DANZO's (among others) treatment of the Uchiha, spiting them and forcing them to live away from the others in the village. It was the Uchiha who planned the coup d'etat, but this plan came about from the ruthlessness of Danzo (amoung others). Although he is the old shinobi way perfected, Konoha has always been the exception. The Senju have always been the exeption. So the question should be, why is Danzo the way he is?
So they got spit on, who cares? Even Itachi realized they were like rabid dogs and had to be put down.

Tobirama no doubt, he had to clean up all the mess his brother let fester.

Uchiha Sonake
05-16-2011, 07:27 PM
So they got spit on, who cares? Even Itachi realized they were like rabid dogs and had to be put down.

Tobirama no doubt, he had to clean up all the mess his brother let fester.
I know...but why is dazo the way he is. ANSWER IT.

Wooster
05-16-2011, 07:28 PM
Tobirama, Danzo is following his advice.

Kreegah!!!
05-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Danzo idolized Tobirama and took his views to the next level (idolaters always do).

TheBlackChidori
05-17-2011, 11:32 AM
Has anyone else made fun of the fact that Danzo was running away from Sasuke in the anime like a scared puppy?

Wooster
05-17-2011, 01:07 PM
Animators lie. >.>

Kreegah!!!
05-17-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm not going to like that episode, am I? But perhaps it was to sell Sasuke the sense that he was weaker indeed, instead of working with Tobi!

Uchiha Sonake
05-17-2011, 03:14 PM
Tobirama, Danzo is following his advice.
You know, I am trying to remember what our dear Nidaime Hokage said...

Wooster
05-18-2011, 05:53 AM
You know, I am trying to remember what our dear Nidaime Hokage said...
We only have the flashback that doesn't exist, but I am sure we will eventually learn more about Tobirama, the inventor of Edo Tensei. I think he will be much like Danzo.

zerosameri
05-18-2011, 06:18 AM
Can't we just agree that Danzou was power-corrupted-good? :lol:

Wooster
05-18-2011, 06:48 AM
How is Danzo corrupt? When has he ever altered his decisions for power?

zerosameri
05-18-2011, 07:16 AM
How is Danzo corrupt? When has he ever altered his decisions for power?
He wanted the greater good, but in the wrong way.

Wooster
05-18-2011, 07:26 AM
He wanted the greater good in an efficient way. Not his fault the Kages wouldn't listen to him, but crapped their pants as soon as Madara showed up.

mrsticky005
06-26-2011, 07:59 PM
He wanted the greater good in an efficient way. Not his fault the Kages wouldn't listen to him, but crapped their pants as soon as Madara showed up.

Ain't that the truth.

Kreegah!!!
06-27-2011, 03:28 PM
He wouldn't even have pulled out the Shisui Orb of Justice had he felt the other kage would be amenable to reason. But he thought rightly that they'd not know the proper course of action to take--not on time anyway.

uzamakilives
06-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Seeing all of these posts on how Danzo wasn't evil, is kinda like a bear crapping on my lawn. BS. Danzo is out for himself. He wants the power because he thinks he deserves the responsibility. If he deserved it he wouldve been names before the 3rd. Obviously to the other hokage he wasnt the best decision. i mean he works with the guy that try and destroys the village( orochimaru). He plots behind the scenes and acts like he had nothing to do with things. He has Sai spy on naruto( hero to the village more than once) what i know is that you can expect him to do the wrong thing. He says hes for the village but really i think he was in need of power. He wants to power to control the world like madara. its just he wants it in a different way. DANZO is not for the good guys.

yondaime*
06-27-2011, 04:46 PM
well all he wanted to do is protect his village, he said so right before his death.

Wooster
06-27-2011, 09:02 PM
He wouldn't even have pulled out the Shisui Orb of Justice had he felt the other kage would be amenable to reason. But he thought rightly that they'd not know the proper course of action to take--not on time anyway.Not Danzo's fault that the other Hokage were bickering children. Sometime a stern hand and harsh rod are needed to bring fools into line

Seeing all of these posts on how Danzo wasn't evil, is kinda like a bear crapping on my lawn. BS. Danzo is out for himself. He wants the power because he thinks he deserves the responsibility. If he deserved it he wouldve been names before the 3rd. Obviously to the other hokage he wasnt the best decision. i mean he works with the guy that try and destroys the village( orochimaru). He plots behind the scenes and acts like he had nothing to do with things. He has Sai spy on naruto( hero to the village more than once) what i know is that you can expect him to do the wrong thing. He says hes for the village but really i think he was in need of power. He wants to power to control the world like madara. its just he wants it in a different way. DANZO is not for the good guys.
And just like that bear, you must accept because otherwise you shall be mauled.

Danzo is never out for himself. If he were, he would have used his own body to gain the ability to control the jinchuriki or spend his life in the shadows. The whole point of Danzo is to sacrifice the self for the greater good. Hiruzen let Orochimaru escape. Tsunade let Sasuke go to Orochimaru. Danzo just used Orochimaru to gain. We have not seen any harm come from that; whereas, Hiruzen and Tsunade essentially destroyed the village twice by their short sighted actions.

He is a true Shinobi; of course he acts behind the scenes. At least in Danzo's case, it is for the good of the village. Sai was to keep the Jinchuriki from leaving and being captured by Madara. Danzo thinks of the good of the village, not just Naruto like a dimwitted Tsunade.

Danzo wants power for the specific reasons he has stated to save the Konoha and even the ninja world from Madara. He thinks everyone else is too incompetent to just that. Given the fact that Naruto fixes all the mistakes everyone else makes, he is probably right. It was after all Danzo's idea to form the Ninja Alliance to defeat Madara. He was right, and as the Raikage has shown, he is not a very good leader. Either he was wrong about keeping Naruto hidden before, or he is wrong now letting him join the battle. A whishy-washy commander is not a good thing.

Danzo is neither bad nor good; he just a perfect shinobi. There is no doubt about that.
well all he wanted to do is protect his village, he said so right before his death.
Indeed, he did. Sadly, bad decisions after another were made by leadership much inferior to his.

Kreegah!!!
06-28-2011, 11:14 AM
The reason a bear mauls you is because her poop is a golden blessing. A blessing that upon refusal transforms into a brutal curse. Take it like a man.

Chidori of Death
06-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Danzo shall one day rule the world. e.e
A boy can dream, can't she?<3

Wooster
06-28-2011, 11:52 AM
The reason a bear mauls you is because her poop is a golden blessing. A blessing that upon refusal transforms into a brutal curse. Take it like a man.
Take it like Danzo. :cool:
Danzo shall one day rule the world. e.e
A boy can dream, can't she?<3
No, she can't. She must realize.

Chidori of Death
06-28-2011, 12:16 PM
This thread needz moar Danzo.

Kreegah!!!
06-28-2011, 01:40 PM
Why can't we just have the two lean, green Admin machines run this past VIZ Editing staff, then run it through Shueisha and have it ratified as fact by Kishimoto. We should gather all the grand points made from all the threads and compile them into a Danzo Manifesto. I'm sure Kishimoto Masashi will recognize the profundity. Along with a short bonus take on Gato/Kakuzu.

Then everyone must accept the truth or quit Naruto forever because why have the delusional stick around anyway??

Wooster
06-28-2011, 01:49 PM
This thread needz moar Danzo.
Sadly Viz doesn't let me post images...
Why can't we just have the two lean, green Admin machines run this past VIZ Editing staff, then run it through Shueisha and have it ratified as fact by Kishimoto. We should gather all the grand points made from all the threads and compile them into a Danzo Manifesto. I'm sure Kishimoto Masashi will recognize the profundity. Along with a short bonus take on Gato/Kakuzu.

Then everyone must accept the truth or quit Naruto forever because why have the delusional stick around anyway??
I think so. I think are first demand is that in the next chapter Naruto wakes up from a dream, Jiraiya has yet to leave the village as Tsunade has just suffered a deadly heart attack. As Jiraiya would hate to be hokage, he recommends Danzo. The plot then kicks off from there as Sai Shaft and Jiraiya go to infiltrate the Rain village, and Danzo actually builds up the defense of the village that Tsunade let slack.

Naruto becomes a prophet and preaches against the absurdity of the Tsunade way that his nightmare revealed.

Still, tensions remain between Naruto and Danzo. The storm clouds loom in the distance...

Chidori of Death
06-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Sadly Viz doesn't let me post images...

I think so. I think are first demand is that in the next chapter Naruto wakes up from a dream, Jiraiya has yet to leave the village as Tsunade has just suffered a deadly heart attack. As Jiraiya would hate to be hokage, he recommends Danzo. The plot then kicks off from there as Sai Shaft and Jiraiya go to infiltrate the Rain village, and Danzo actually builds up the defense of the village that Tsunade let slack.

Naruto becomes a prophet and preaches against the absurdity of the Tsunade way that his nightmare revealed.

Still, tensions remain between Naruto and Danzo. The storm clouds loom in the distance...
Wasn't there some rule that let you post Legal Naruto images?
Because theres a Nice thumbnail pic of danzo on the front page of the site.

Wooster
06-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Fine. Enjoy.
http://thumbnails.hulu.com/14/17/62810_512x288_generated__u9nFGRmCUE6eQPQcyckzVw.jp g

Chidori of Death
06-28-2011, 02:52 PM
<3 Danzo. And his Henchmen(AKA You. And half the forum members =D)

mrsticky005
06-29-2011, 04:32 PM
Anyone else think we are due in for a Danzo flashback? :D

mrsticky005
06-29-2011, 05:45 PM
As the Danzo vs Sasuke fight goes. I think Danzo's fatal mistake...was letting Karin live.
Had Danzo killed her instead of just kicking her then Karin wouldn't have been able to
heal Sasuke. Danzo could then use Shisui's eye as a final Izanagi to finish off Sasuke.

Wooster
06-29-2011, 06:56 PM
Anyone else think we are due in for a Danzo flashback? :D
That be awesome.

If only Karin looked more threatening. Then Danzo could have blasted her with a Vacuum blade and cut off her head.

Of course, then Madara would have saved Sasuke before Danzo could have killed him, but Danzo would have lived. =D

mrsticky005
06-30-2011, 10:09 PM
That be awesome.

If only Karin looked more threatening. Then Danzo could have blasted her with a Vacuum blade and cut off her head.

Of course, then Madara would have saved Sasuke before Danzo could have killed him, but Danzo would have lived. =D

I'm guessing Danzo kept her alive to interrogate later.


Speaking of which I wonder if she was of any use for Ibiki?

Wooster
07-01-2011, 06:28 AM
I'm guessing Danzo kept her alive to interrogate later.


Speaking of which I wonder if she was of any use for Ibiki?
Probably not or we would have heard about it. I hope Karin has been excised from the story.

mrsticky005
08-23-2011, 03:12 PM
On Danzo's plans during the Pain Invasion.

Since Danzo saw Almighty Push before do you think it's possible that Danzo's
plan was to wait for Deva to nuke the village, Tsunade use up all her chakra
healing everyone and then when Deva recharges Danzo goes in for the kill?

Wooster
08-24-2011, 05:21 PM
On Danzo's plans during the Pain Invasion.

Since Danzo saw Almighty Push before do you think it's possible that Danzo's
plan was to wait for Deva to nuke the village, Tsunade use up all her chakra
healing everyone and then when Deva recharges Danzo goes in for the kill?
Wait, when did he see it before?

mrsticky005
08-25-2011, 09:04 AM
Wait, when did he see it before?

When he and Hanzo teamed up to kill Yahiko.

They threw kunai at Nagato.

Nagato repelled them all using Almighty Push.

Sure it's not the nuclear version. But at least he knows he has the
almighty push jutsu. And based off further intelligence from the
current battle it won't be too difficult to figure out.

Wooster
08-25-2011, 11:14 AM
When he and Hanzo teamed up to kill Yahiko.

They threw kunai at Nagato.

Nagato repelled them all using Almighty Push.

Sure it's not the nuclear version. But at least he knows he has the
almighty push jutsu. And based off further intelligence from the
current battle it won't be too difficult to figure out.
But how would he know God Path would nuke the village? Did he know Tsunade couldn't help but run off her mouth? Okay, dumb question. Still it is hard to see that he would know that would happen. All he did know is Tsunade would protect the people and limit casualties, which she did do.

Really though, that Nuke really dug a deep hole. Unless Danzo was outside the village at the time, Root probably had to take defensive action against it no matter how deep underground they were.

mrsticky005
08-25-2011, 12:21 PM
But how would he know God Path would nuke the village? Did he know Tsunade couldn't help but run off her mouth? Okay, dumb question. Still it is hard to see that he would know that would happen. All he did know is Tsunade would protect the people and limit casualties, which she did do.

Really though, that Nuke really dug a deep hole. Unless Danzo was outside the village at the time, Root probably had to take defensive action against it no matter how deep underground they were.


Inference from seeing Nagato in battle.
If he can control the Gedo Statue then he's probably
powerful enough to do some major damage.

But I dunno. Maybe he didn't know but just knew Tsunade would
limit the casualties.

But anywho do you think had Naruto not arrive would Danzo
fight Pain?