View Full Version : Match up discussion thread Deidara
11-27-2009, 03:31 PM
i don't see one If there is and i am completly clue less then just lock this.
I will start with deidara since i main him
I will do five a day till we get them all for him and will move on
IF you have something constructive to say do it politely otherwise i will ignore you or pretend to ignore you
Deidara vs Naruto 60-40
It just doesn't seem like naruto has anything on deidara here. Deidara has better spam equal attacks and slightly better damage output. naruto kyubi cloak doesn't have projectiles which can make this even harder for naruto.
Deidara vs Sasuke 45-55 sasuke
almost all of sasukes attacks can be SS which means if he hits your shield its genraly safe to press R and start to punish. sasuke can teleport behind deidaras spam and deal a bit of damage to deidara. sasuke does not have that much on deidara but it still exsists.
Deidara vs kakazu 60-40 deidara
deidara hits faster and f.a moves faster then kakazu. j.a can punish kakazu if he tries to spam d.a if you do it after his second hit. and considering thats kakazu's main point as of right now it pretty much shuts kakazu down.
Deidara vs TenTen 60-40 deidara
tenten sorta just sucks and only has the spear which all you have to do is jump and not move to not be hit otherwise. Abiet teh giant sword can do a lot but tenten is a bit to much dependant on her weapons to realy do anyhting else. F.a from deidara helps a lot here for him as he can behind her and punish while she pulls weapons out.
Deidara vs kakashi 60-40 deidara
In deidaras favor favor but kakashis only real approuch on a smart player is to grab since his b sting is open for punishment and so is his d.a. when camping, f.a will beat kakashi if he spams kunai to much and kakashi really has to to try to get deidara close without his guard whcih can be an issue
be RESPECTFUL with your comments if you want me to change them, I will add 5 more tommorow
11-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Before doing matchups shouldn't we actually make guides to the character themselves?
o and i also wanna make an insight for my main vs deidara as well.
just note i have no experiance fighting a Deidara (noone in my local area plays him nor seen anyone who has online)
Deidara vs Shino 55-45 Deidara
In deidara favor if Deidara keeps his space from Shino while he still has chakra. His Bombs are much faster and more reliable then the bugs. Likewise if Shino keeps his space while Deidara has no chakra, Deidara is shut out from his explosives techiques, and will have to approach, and approaching close enough is hard. It ultimately how well Deidara manages his chakra.
11-29-2009, 07:03 PM
Orochimaru vs Deidara 70:30 orochimaru
In orochimaru's favor because orochimaru has so many things to help abuse deidara's attacks. He can port behind deidara and punish any lag he may have, his special drains chakra and prevents more from coming. Not only a great big middle finger to deidara who needs chakra for most of his special moves, but also a great way to ruin the next round for him. Orochimaru has enough power to 0-death anyone not willing or not able to escape out of it with a L/R escape port. That and his standard combos take about half life and can be buffered into longer streams to take even more out.
Orochimaru dosent need to worry about coming from the front since he can port behind Dei at any real given chance. His kunai are decent speed and will often be comboed with portal as an automatic guard stop. Kunai, port, they either get hit by your combo or the turn to block it, get hit by the kunai, and combo lands anyways.
Deidara vs Sasori 50-50
This is more of a "who gets the job done faster" kind of fight. Deidara has tools to keep sasori at bay, however with the guard breaker rope and plenty of punishing tools sasori is no pushover. If Dei cant keep his distance well enough, sasori can literally rip over the spiders and birds with his air strong-strong combo and get him in range to string togeather insane combos. The downside, however, is Sasori's super armor has less effect vs deidara since the explosions go through it. Spiders knock it out of the way, so spider trotting (basically bouncing off of the spiders) is a decent way to get sasori to half or more. However if there is one false move, sasori has quite a bit less lag on his combos than Dei and can shatter guards with them. This and his Back-A canceling out teleports and L/R ports. Its about who can manage their vantage point and overtake the other. Plainly, it could go either way and only skill will show which would come out on top.
11-29-2009, 07:12 PM
i am going to say oro has advantedge if he keeos deidara out with special but oro still has to hit withg that so i have to 65-35 oro not quite 70-30 but definetly oros favor
11-29-2009, 07:15 PM
... Erm... You did read the kunai-port combination, yes? Even if you wanted to stop me I dont think you'd be able to...
But 65-35 I guess... Whatever floats your boat.
Btw, thanks for the sasuke tip. I figured out that I've been stepping too early on and getting hit from the side.
11-29-2009, 07:18 PM
is that why you lost to ushio frost? cause i assumed you knew and only used like his 2 attacks that had tracking and made sure all of my attacks hit
11-29-2009, 07:23 PM
Actually its because I didnt abuse the "walk it out" armor on sasori but probably.
He did melee and I punished those to high heaven. I just stepped too early when he did the sword and got slammed for it.
11-29-2009, 07:26 PM
oh i see. does sasori have tracking on his attacks?
11-29-2009, 07:33 PM
amazing tracking, but superarmor does no good if sasuke manages to land the fourth hit of the A combo. Also his combos are easily canceled and back-a solves most tracking problems, sometimes pivoting him to face the opponent.
11-29-2009, 07:39 PM
Dude u guys cant just assume match ups this requires much disscussion and thought about every technique the character can have on the opponent. Like for one the naruto vs. deidara match would be in narutos favor due to his infinate which gives him perfect offense and his Clone/Kunai combo which would definately break through deidaras defense. would have to be playing with more thought normal to win due to tese two techniques. Diedara does have some strong points against naruto. Diedaras forward A can get him from behind easily. thats not all if the naruto ends up doing a substitution auto hit the naruto will come from behind with a head but. At this point u can jump, naruto will slide past and deidara will land in perfect position to a chakra less turned around naruto. This is still not enough to take advantage. if it werent for narutos Clone/ kunai technique deidara would be definately ahead in this match up. Naruto can be anywhere on the stage best to be far away and he may easily block or dodge deidara non rapid incoming explosive clay leave naruto with enough time to preform the technique in this case deidaras incoming explosives on naruto will be serverely lessened or depleted due to the deidara trying to avoid it withou damage.
I dont want to make a estimated guess about this match up but this is only an example of considering everythingthat each person has on each other and it requires much thought ussually between two or more people acctually ussually between a group of people. What we should be doing is instead of trying to figure out everything on our own we should make a group of leaders on this site that will discuss tier list and match ups between each other. Im sure there are techs about a certain character that u guys know and i dont and im sure theres some things about a character i know and you dont. If we all come together and analyze all of these that we all have we will make the best possible dissicions on match ups and tiers. even after these lists are made the more and more techs that we learn, the more and more something on the list could change. this is the basis of all tier lists and match up disscussions btw so im not making this stuff up.
11-29-2009, 07:45 PM
i am pretty sure you can just out run narutos clones to be honest.
but otherwise i agree with your post
11-29-2009, 08:32 PM
narutos clones are unlimited and does not use chakura
11-29-2009, 08:45 PM
no i mean dash and i think they miss kakazus and kabutos d.a can be dodged like that
11-29-2009, 09:00 PM
For some reason in this game unlike the other revolution games this game narutos clone clone is way more accurate. step doeging it is very rare and unlikely you can only step dodge it. There is only a 1-6 frame rate interval in which u can step dodge it and thats hard enough as it is online its nearly impossible. dashing wont work it WILL get you. blocking only hits u up in the air where he can then perform the clone kunai combo by switcing off throwing a kunai and clones which is a strategy thats hard to beat. to understand the difficulty do it to an opponent or fight a naruto player that will do it to you.
11-29-2009, 09:03 PM
i have but they got tired since i just wated it out and they get bored
and you can dash out of kabutos and kakazus d.a and they will miss
11-29-2009, 09:18 PM
They'res isnt movement sensitive though.
Kabuto's goes to where you were standing. If you move, the move dosent follow.
Kakuzu's is about the same way.
Naruto's actually goes off of where your stepping, which makes it a much better move. You dash, it'll count the frame when it comes out rather than goes in.
Basically kabutos and kakuzu's frames start when they hit the ground, where as naruto's start when he's coming up.
11-29-2009, 09:22 PM
11-29-2009, 10:05 PM
I wasent talking about kakuzu or kabuto only naruto
11-29-2009, 10:12 PM
no but it helped me understand the diffrence
11-30-2009, 02:59 PM
*I was helpful*
Heres another matchup!
Sai vs deidara 55-45 Sai
Sai DOES have teleport, and his bird goes faster than Deidara's bird... However, these are the only two advantages Sai really has over the clay maker and at that they arent as monumental as Orochimaru's pulls. First on the menu is the teleport. Of course with orochimaru, his port has little to no lag coming out so theres almost no real way to counter it, especially if he does the kunai-port combo. Sai, on the other hand, has a much laggier teleport and being that his creations move faster than him (when doing the bird or beast) so much so that they would actually ruin the combo (The snake, for example, provides about a half bar of chakra when it latches on. This could mean the opponent gets to break out of it and punish Sai's combo lag.)
In all honesty, Deidara can Forward A and bomb Sai as he's coming out of his teleport, or simply dash away. The least laggy follow of Sai's is a strong attack which, to be honest, undermines the idea since his combos off of it are mediocre in comparison to the others he has. Likewise, his strong follow has a small bit of a tracking problem. Not like sasuke tracking bad, but worse than say... Hidan.
Deidara can also drop a spider and have enough time to pivot Nguard if Sai tries to follow with a weak attack where in his combos shine the most. If he goes for the less Laggy strong, the spider drops the combo on the spot.
I do, however, give the advantage to Sai on the note that he DOES have a lag punish and decently well combo ability. On the top of it, his special has decent range and his drawings not only cost (I believe) no chakra, but are faster and can disjoint some of Deidara's approaches. However with the spiders in Deidara's arsenal and Sai's honest lack of G.P. (Guard pressure, which is how close a character can get a guard to breaking out of a combo), Deidara has no problem messing up Sai's entire plan. Dropping spiders can halt most approaches, Sai's laggy teleport sets him up for F.A., spider disjoint, spider trotting, and Deidara can simply run and force Sai to keep approaching until he lacks the chakra to continue. Deidara vs Sai isnt a one way street, its perfectly suitible to almost call it even. However with the tools in his arsenal and the range, speed, and countering ability of some of the beasts I'd give a 5 point lead to sai. Snake capture is great, but means nothing if spiders are bouncing you until Dei is free.
Advice for Dei: Keep a steady supply of spiders out. They have decent tracking and can interrupt most of what sai has. Distance is your obvious friend here. Dont be afraid to run, it's a great way to toss them off tempo and with Deidara's arsenal the smallest error from them means a swift victory from you. Also bird/spider bombing to break guard is a decent idea. No chakra means no port behind you. Also, as with sasuke, try to keep your back to the wall if you can. This'll allow you to prevent him from getting behind you some of the time and can set you up for lag punishing.
Tip for Sai: Dont port all willy nilly. Dei has some tools to keep you at bay, but the portal should only be used as a finish or a lag punish. Your teleport is rather laggy and can be basically useless if he has spiders near by but remember... unlike you, his cost chakra and when he's out of chakra, thats your time to capatalize. Try to draw him out by working in a E.kunai (Explosive kunai), and if you need to toss one at the ground and work him towards it. If he sees you coming, he'll try to make distance because thats where deidara can do the most damage. If you do this right, as he's trying to head back he'll run into it and allow you time to port safely and capatalize.
11-30-2009, 07:35 PM
One character you should watch out for as a Deidara player is Anbu Kakashi. Once he gets full chakra and does his sharingan transformation, it is very dangerous. All he has to do is wait for you to shoot a projectile at him and use his back a. He will keep teleporting behind you and doing his chidori drop. It is rediculous that it works on projectiles. He can only hit you with it when you use attacks on the ground though, so bird spam and close combat are your best bet for going around it. Just a warning.
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