PDA

View Full Version : Zetsu. Is. Not. Dead. Get it right!


C4 Karura
11-14-2009, 03:55 PM
Alright, I've noticed a lot of people who seem to think that White Zetsu was killed by Raikage. He wasn't. There are several reasons why this is not true.

1) Akatsuki members are never killed off that fast. Let's look at the Akatsuki deaths so far:

Sasori: Took an 11-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had shown his full abilities and had some backstory shown.
Hidan: Took an 8-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had his full abilities shown.
Kakuzu: Took an 11-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had (presumably) his full abilities shown.
Diedera: Took an 8-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had his full abilities and one flashback shown.
Itachi: Took a 8-chapter fight before he died from his disease. Wasn't killed until his full abilities (we think) and some massive backstory were shown, as well as some more massive backstory shortly after he died.
Nagato/Pain: Took 13 chapters of fighting plus 7 chapters of talking/backstory before he died.
Let's take a look at Zetsu, and what it would look like if he had, in fact, died.

Zetsu: Took 4 pages to be killed. Showed almost no abilities, with almost nothing known about his character.
One of the few remaining Akatsuki wouldn't be gotten rid of so easily, even if his other half remained.

2) The Spore Jutsu. Let's say that White Zetsu is seriously injured/comatose. Then Black Zetsu could probably rejoin with him and then do some version of the Spore Jutsu that gave Sasuke more chakra to heal White Zetsu.

3) Madara's not an idiot. Why would he send one the few remaining Akatsuki to a place where they had no chance of surviving just to let the Kages know Sasuke was there? Clearly, Madara knows of something that can heal White Zetsu. (Possibly the thing from Reason 2?)

Clearly, White Zetsu wasn't killed. *prepares for the people who will ignore logic and insist he's dead anyway*

zerosameri
11-14-2009, 04:03 PM
You said several reasons and you only gave 3 XD :lol:


But you never know, and I see what your going at

Narutorious
11-14-2009, 04:10 PM
It's obvious White Zetsu isn't dead, it was too easy, even if he was, it would only be half of Zetsu that is dead.

Nābris
11-14-2009, 04:15 PM
It has been proven in the manga that white-half Zetsu is alive.

He then proceeds to use an incredibly awesome jutsu and annoy the heck out of everyone.... like a boss.

mrsticky005
11-14-2009, 04:16 PM
This is pretty much what I've been saying.


Zetsu won't die until Sasuke uses Amaterasu and make Zetsu fry!

C4 Karura
11-14-2009, 05:04 PM
You said several reasons and you only gave 3 XD :lol:


But you never know, and I see what your going at
I thought three counted as "several"...

mrsticky005
11-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Sasuke vs Zetsu.
Expect it.

Nābris
11-14-2009, 06:09 PM
Sasuke vs Zetsu.
Expect it.

Yesh.
Expect Sasuke to get haxed.

mrsticky005
11-14-2009, 06:15 PM
Yesh.
Expect Sasuke to get haxed.

Sorry but Sasuke will fry Zetsu with Amaterasu.

Expect it. Because it will happen.

C4 Karura
11-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Wow, a total shutout on the poll. I'd seen several people who were so convinced Zetsu was dead, so I expected to see a few people who come on the thread and told me I was an idiot for disagreeing with their opinion. I guess I convinced them all I was right (or they just haven't seen the thread yet).

NarutoFan12
11-14-2009, 08:22 PM
Yes, reading this made my day!:D

yondaime
11-14-2009, 08:23 PM
I knew White Zetsu wasn't dead and I thought everyone knew that....

RockyL
11-14-2009, 08:44 PM
i thought he wasnt dead but so many people told me he was i started to think he actually had died.

darkXotaku
11-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Dude there was never apart where he was even close to dieing..

deidara330
11-14-2009, 09:19 PM
Alright, I've noticed a lot of people who seem to think that White Zetsu was killed by Raikage. He wasn't. There are several reasons why this is not true.



1) Akatsuki members are never killed off that fast. Let's look at the Akatsuki deaths so far:

Sasori: Took an 11-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had shown his full abilities and had some backstory shown.
Hidan: Took an 8-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had his full abilities shown.
Kakuzu: Took an 11-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had (presumably) his full abilities shown.
Diedera: Took an 8-chapter fight to be defeated. Wasn't killed until he had his full abilities and one flashback shown.
Itachi: Took a 8-chapter fight before he died from his disease. Wasn't killed until his full abilities (we think) and some massive backstory were shown, as well as some more massive backstory shortly after he died.
Nagato/Pain: Took 13 chapters of fighting plus 7 chapters of talking/backstory before he died.
Let's take a look at Zetsu, and what it would look like if he had, in fact, died.

Zetsu: Took 4 pages to be killed. Showed almost no abilities, with almost nothing known about his character.
One of the few remaining Akatsuki wouldn't be gotten rid of so easily, even if his other half remained.

This proves nothing. Sasori, Hidan, and Kakuzu all died in the same Story Arc that they were introduced in. Zetsu was introduced in the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, and "died" in the Five Kage Arc. That's more screentime (or equivalent to the screentime) than any other Akatsuki member has, save Kisame. Not all bad guys deserve spectacular deaths. This doesn't actually offer legitimate proof of Zetsu's condition.



2) The Spore Jutsu. Let's say that White Zetsu is seriously injured/comatose. Then Black Zetsu could probably rejoin with him and then do some version of the Spore Jutsu that gave Sasuke more chakra to heal White Zetsu.

If the point of this thread is to prove to people that White Zetsu isn't dead, then this doesn't help you. To have proof, you have to state something that actually occured in the manga. White Zetsu's neck was snapped, and, if you look at a few chapters ago, he was stabbed in the head. He was dead, not comatose. Giving chakra to a dead person can't bring them back to life.


3) Madara's not an idiot. Why would he send one the few remaining Akatsuki to a place where they had no chance of surviving just to let the Kages know Sasuke was there? Clearly, Madara knows of something that can heal White Zetsu. (Possibly the thing from Reason 2?)

Clearly, White Zetsu wasn't killed. *prepares for the people who will ignore logic and insist he's dead anyway*
Madara isn't an idiot. I doubt that anyone who's been alive for possibly 100+ years could be idiotic. But Madara is cruel, and moreover uncaring for people other than himself. He would certainly sacrifice someone with so little skill as Zetsu just to let the Kages know of Sasuke's location. Besides this, that one moment stirred up panic and confusion that lasted ten+ chapters. Madara wanted to test Sasuke's skills up against those of the five great shadows. This could never have happened otherwise, because Sasuke (cautious person as he is) would never allow interferance in the battle that would decide the fate of the (next-to) last remaining Uchiha alive. Zetsu's disruption also served the purpose of leaving all five kages weakened, allowing Madara to appear in front of them without fear of defeat. There isn't much actual proof or logic behind your reasonings, only that his death wasn't spectacular enough to have been true. I have no doubt that Zetsu may be brought back to life for the purpose of the plot, but until proven otherwise, I believe Zetsu to be dead.

Nice job on putting a spoiler in the title.

SasukeFallen
11-14-2009, 11:24 PM
There are two possablities here, and I see proof for both:

(White)Zetsu is dead:
-He got a Kunai through the head
-His neck was snapped/throat crushed by Raikage
-He seemed to served his purpose, distracting the kage's and there body gaurds at just the right time to allow Sasuke to enter.(Though some view it as zetsu betraying Sasuke, by alerting them when Sasuke wanted to surprise attack, taking out Danzo)

Besides, who's to say the black Zetsu can't function w/o the white?

(White)Zetsu is alive: Sort of, but not like everyone thinks.
-I think it's possable that the white Zetsu will apear once again, but by regeneration, not just somehow 'not being dead' after the things listed above. That Zetsu is surely a goner, IMO. There's two way's I see this happening:

1)The black half will apear in th land of Iron, and go to his white half. He may somehow 'fuse' back with it, there for 'undoing' the jutsu(the split), and that may bring back the white one.

2)The black half may simply regrow the white half. Think about it, he is a plant-man. Therefor white Zetsu would be back by association. It might take awhile, or he may have to go back for a sample of it to grow, but it could happen. It might be one of the abilities that Madara kept him around for. He maybe able to 'play possum'.

Besides, I think it would be kind of dumb for Kishi to make Zetsu so defeatable, when he's been around so long, making cameo apearences whenever something big goes down. That and we havn't even found out about the ability to record what he sees, as alluded to by Madara. This makes me think that there is still more to know about him, and that making him completly half defeated already would be dumb.

Oh and one more thing, black Zetsu didn't seem so worried about the white half when we got that glimps of him. All he does is comment on how the Kage's were stupid to not notice his spore jutsu. This also makes me think about the theory I came up with.

Note: This is almost all pure speculation(Except the points pick out to show white zetsu is dead)

Nemico
11-15-2009, 12:53 PM
I knew White Zetsu wasn't dead and I thought everyone knew that....


Yea I was thinking the same thing. ^
It never came once across my head that he was dead.

Sage Of Six Paths
11-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Spoilers help save the world.

C4 Karura
11-15-2009, 04:23 PM
Madara isn't an idiot. I doubt that anyone who's been alive for possibly 100+ years could be idiotic. But Madara is cruel, and moreover uncaring for people other than himself. He would certainly sacrifice someone with so little skill as Zetsu just to let the Kages know of Sasuke's location. Besides this, that one moment stirred up panic and confusion that lasted ten+ chapters. Madara wanted to test Sasuke's skills up against those of the five great shadows. This could never have happened otherwise, because Sasuke (cautious person as he is) would never allow interferance in the battle that would decide the fate of the (next-to) last remaining Uchiha alive. Zetsu's disruption also served the purpose of leaving all five kages weakened, allowing Madara to appear in front of them without fear of defeat. There isn't much actual proof or logic behind your reasonings, only that his death wasn't spectacular enough to have been true. I have no doubt that Zetsu may be brought back to life for the purpose of the plot, but until proven otherwise, I believe Zetsu to be dead.

Nice job on putting a spoiler in the title.



S***. I just made a really long post responding to this, and then it gave me an "error" message. My point was, I want to have a debate on this. Also, I'm adding some more points to my original message:

No matter how weak/unimportant a Akatsuki member is (which I don't think Zetsu is, but some people do), they are never killed in one small panel.
Whenever it's not totally certain that a manga character is dead, they are almost always alive.
I liked the point SasukeFallen made:Besides, I think it would be kind of dumb for Kishi to make Zetsu so defeatable, when he's been around so long, making cameo apearences whenever something big goes down. That and we havn't even found out about the ability to record what he sees, as alluded to by Madara. This makes me think that there is still more to know about him, and that making him completly half defeated already would be dumb.

Also, Madara needs as many people as possible for Gedo Mazo. Even though he would definitely sacrafice Zetsu if it would help him, I don't think Madara would sacrafice one of the few remaining Akatsuki members which he needs so badly just to cause a panic.
Also, sorry, I forgot about the spoiler. I don't make threads that often.

deidara330
11-15-2009, 06:21 PM
S***. I just made a really long post responding to this, and then it gave me an "error" message. My point was, I want to have a debate on this. Also, I'm adding some more points to my original message:

No matter how weak/unimportant a Akatsuki member is (which I don't think Zetsu is, but some people do), they are never killed in one small panel.
True, none so far have had a death that didn't take up at least an entire page. But saying so does nothing to prove that Zetsu is currently alive.

Whenever it's not totally certain that a manga character is dead, they are almost always alive.
Invasion of Pain Arc, many people debating Kakashi was undead because the death created uncetainty in them. Pain revived him at the end, proving that he was at that time dead. If Zetsu is later revived, it proves that he was certainly dead after the Raikage snapped his neck.

I liked the point SasukeFallen made:

Also, Madara needs as many people as possible for Gedo Mazo. Even though he would definitely sacrafice Zetsu if it would help him, I don't think Madara would sacrafice one of the few remaining Akatsuki members which he needs so badly just to cause a panic.
That one event left every single Kage weakened, and it allowed Madara to guage the strengths and weaknesses of over 15 of the strongest ninja alive. It had more purpose than causing a panic. Besides that, Black Zetsu could just as easily work with Gedo Mazo the same way they did together.

Also, sorry, I forgot about the spoiler. I don't make threads that often.
I still have yet to see a point which offers legitimate proof on the nature of Zetsu's death, or lack thereof. Your main points are that it wasn't as propagated as most deaths, but this does nothing to prove that he's alive.

mrsticky005
11-15-2009, 06:29 PM
Zetsu won't die until he's fried...courtesy of Sasuke.

jesse uzumaki
11-15-2009, 06:37 PM
zetsu not dead until he gives a real battle and dies cool not so easy and fast.

Shika-fiend
11-15-2009, 06:44 PM
I don't think Zetsu is dead.

mrsticky005
11-15-2009, 06:48 PM
zetsu not dead until he gives a real battle

That will be Sasuke vs Zetsu. winner Sasuke. how amaterasu

deidara330
11-15-2009, 06:50 PM
zetsu not dead until he gives a real battle

That will be Sasuke vs Zetsu. winner Sasuke. how amaterasu
Actually, Sasuke already has too much screentime. I'd rather think Zetsu's epic fight would be with Kakashi, Jugo, or Kakashi and Jugo.

Kizomaru Yukimoto
11-15-2009, 06:55 PM
Not dead. Just talks to himself. xD

C4 Karura
11-15-2009, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by C4 Karura http://naruto.viz.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1744223#post1744223)
S***. I just made a really long post responding to this, and then it gave me an "error" message. My point was, I want to have a debate on this. Also, I'm adding some more points to my original message:





No matter how weak/unimportant a Akatsuki member is (which I don't think Zetsu is, but some people do), they are never killed in one small panel.

True, none so far have had a death that didn't take up at least an entire page. But saying so does nothing to prove that Zetsu is currently alive.
Yeah, it isn't "proof", I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that a pretty important character would be killed in such a minor way.





Whenever it's not totally certain that a manga character is dead, they are almost always alive.
Invasion of Pain Arc, many people debating Kakashi was undead because the death created uncetainty in them. Pain revived him at the end, proving that he was at that time dead. If Zetsu is later revived, it proves that he was certainly dead after the Raikage snapped his neck.

I didn't say that it's always true. I just that it's typical of manga to do so.





I liked the point SasukeFallen made:
Why didn't you counter this one?



Also, Madara needs as many people as possible for Gedo Mazo. Even though he would definitely sacrafice Zetsu if it would help him, I don't think Madara would sacrafice one of the few remaining Akatsuki members which he needs so badly just to cause a panic.
That one event left every single Kage weakened, and it allowed Madara to guage the strengths and weaknesses of over 15 of the strongest ninja alive. It had more purpose than causing a panic.
Hmmm... This is actually a pretty good point. Still, he's a genius! Couldn't he find a way to do this that didn't require him losing one of the few chakra sources he has left?
Besides that, Black Zetsu could just as easily work with Gedo Mazo the same way they did together.
Yes, he could still preform the jutsu, but, until we learn otherwise, we have to assume that Black Zetsu and White Zetsu have the same amount of chakra. Therfore, if we count Zetsu as one person, Madara's losing half the chakra of one of the three he has left.





Also, sorry, I forgot about the spoiler. I don't make threads that often.
I still have yet to see a point which offers legitimate proof on the nature of Zetsu's death, or lack thereof. Your main points are that it wasn't as propagated as most deaths, but this does nothing to prove that he's alive.Orange = C4 Karura
Grey Bold = Diedera330's Response to C4 Karara
Yellow = C4's Response to 330

deidara330
11-15-2009, 08:33 PM
S***. I just made a really long post responding to this, and then it gave me an "error" message. My point was, I want to have a debate on this. Also, I'm adding some more points to my original message:






No matter how weak/unimportant a Akatsuki member is (which I don't think Zetsu is, but some people do), they are never killed in one small panel.
True, none so far have had a death that didn't take up at least an entire page. But saying so does nothing to prove that Zetsu is currently alive.


Yeah, it isn't "proof", I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that a pretty important character would be killed in such a minor way.

But it isn't proof.






Whenever it's not totally certain that a manga character is dead, they are almost always alive.
Invasion of Pain Arc, many people debating Kakashi was undead because the death created uncetainty in them. Pain revived him at the end, proving that he was at that time dead. If Zetsu is later revived, it proves that he was certainly dead after the Raikage snapped his neck.

I didn't say that it's always true. I just that it's typical of manga to do so.

It usually is typical, but it isn't always true.


I liked the point SasukeFallen made:



Why didn't you counter this one?
I didn't feel like it.


Also, Madara needs as many people as possible for Gedo Mazo. Even though he would definitely sacrafice Zetsu if it would help him, I don't think Madara would sacrafice one of the few remaining Akatsuki members which he needs so badly just to cause a panic.
That one event left every single Kage weakened, and it allowed Madara to guage the strengths and weaknesses of over 15 of the strongest ninja alive. It had more purpose than causing a panic.


Hmmm... This is actually a pretty good point. Still, he's a genius! Couldn't he find a way to do this that didn't require him losing one of the few chakra sources he has left?

He still has Black Zetsu, and he already talked about finding a replacement. Zetsu served a good enough purpose.

Besides that, Black Zetsu could just as easily work with Gedo Mazo the same way they did together.

Yes, he could still preform the jutsu, but, until we learn otherwise, we have to assume that Black Zetsu and White Zetsu have the same amount of chakra. Therfore, if we count Zetsu as one person, Madara's losing half the chakra of one of the three he has left.

Well, Black Zetsu could replinish this chakra through Hotoshi no Jutsu. Besides that, if you could notice White Zetsu slowly grew back the body parts he lost from splitting. We can assume the same goes for Black Zetsu, and that he's being restored as well. This would restore Black Zetsu's Keirakukei (is that how it's spelled? The chakra network) to that of both Zetsu's combined. Madara would have all the chakra he needed back.

Also, sorry, I forgot about the spoiler. I don't make threads that often.

Responses in Bold Again.

mrsticky005
11-16-2009, 10:50 AM
Actually, Sasuke already has too much screentime. I'd rather think Zetsu's epic fight would be with Kakashi, Jugo, or Kakashi and Jugo.


I'm not saying this fight will happen because I want it to happen.
I'm saying it will happen because of Chapter 453 in which Sasuke
says about Zetsu "If he tries anything funny I'll just fry him with amaterasu.
Besides there's something I've been wanting to test out."
Then later Zetsu does betray Sasuke by revealing his location to Danzo.

There could be a more obvious foreshadowing than this unless Kishimoto
wrote at the manga chapter "Guess what folks!? Sasuke will fight Zetsu soon!"

Nobody argues that Sasuke vs Naruto will fight when Madara said that
(though personally I don't think it will be to the death and it will eventually
change to Naruto and Sasuke vs Madara).

Sasuke vs Zetsu will happen. Sasuke will win. With Amaterasu.

C4 Karura
11-17-2009, 07:14 AM
But it isn't proof.
So what you're saying is, it's pretty likely I'm right, but it's not 100%?


It usually is typical, but it isn't always true.
Same response as above


I didn't feel like it.
Alright.


He still has Black Zetsu, and he already talked about finding a replacement. Zetsu served a good enough purpose.

Besides that, Black Zetsu could just as easily work with Gedo Mazo the same way they did together.
Hmm... Good point. You win this argument.


Well, Black Zetsu could replinish this chakra through Hotoshi no Jutsu. Besides that, if you could notice White Zetsu slowly grew back the body parts he lost from splitting. We can assume the same goes for Black Zetsu, and that he's being restored as well. This would restore Black Zetsu's Keirakukei (is that how it's spelled? The chakra network) to that of both Zetsu's combined. Madara would have all the chakra he needed back.
What's Hotoshi no Jutsu?
Responses in orange.

minoto
11-17-2009, 07:31 AM
i dont believe you guys but could black zetsu function on its own but yeah white zetsu is not dead even though everybody is saying he is

Tekkai
11-17-2009, 07:46 AM
He should still be alive.

deidara330
11-17-2009, 04:42 PM
So what you're saying is, it's pretty likely I'm right, but it's not 100%?

What I'm saying is, for the purpose of debating Zetsu's death and death only, the specific points I countered cannot prove in any way, shape, or form, that Zetsu is actually 100% for certain alive. Masashi Kishimoto may create a jutsu or technique within the manga that allows Zetsu to come back to life, but there is no doubt in my mind that White Zetsu is, at the moment, dead.

What's Hotoshi no Jutsu?

It's the spore jutsu Zetsu used on the Kages. He could replinesh his own chakra with it.

mrsticky005
11-17-2009, 05:41 PM
Zetsu is still alive because he hasn't been fried by Sasuke's amaterasu yet.

C4 Karura
11-17-2009, 08:46 PM
What I'm saying is, for the purpose of debating Zetsu's death and death only, the specific points I countered cannot prove in any way, shape, or form, that Zetsu is actually 100% for certain alive. Masashi Kishimoto may create a jutsu or technique within the manga that allows Zetsu to come back to life, but there is no doubt in my mind that White Zetsu is, at the moment, dead.

What's Hotoshi no Jutsu? It's the spore jutsu Zetsu used on the Kages. He could replinesh his own chakra with it.
Hmmm.... So should we agree that:

He's probably alive.
He might be dead.
If he is dead, he will be healed with some unknown jutsu/some varient on the Spore Jutsu.
Can we agree on this and end the argument?

Naruto2921
11-18-2009, 01:47 PM
I 100% completely agree White Zetsu is not dead he has been at every battle and studies how people fight. I can guarantee he has some awesome abilities there is no way he will be defeated so easily

Parak111
11-18-2009, 02:17 PM
I also agree. There's no way that the white part of Zetsu is dead. He IS a member of the Akatsuki afterall,and even if it was the Raikage, he can't be killed so easy. He just got there,got his neck crushed and Game Over. That was just way toooo easy. I'm sure that he will turn out to be alive.

ninja05
11-18-2009, 02:26 PM
I knew White Zetsu wasn't dead and I thought everyone knew that....


I knew that too...

deidara330
11-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Hmmm.... So should we agree that:

He's probably alive.
He might be dead.
If he is dead, he will be healed with some unknown jutsu/some varient on the Spore Jutsu.
Can we agree on this and end the argument?
He is dead, that is something I am certain of. I will agree that he may be resurrected with an as of yet unkown jutsu or technique, but for the moment he is dead. My argument never suggested he wouldn't be brought back to life, but simply that he wasn't alive at all.

assassin
11-18-2009, 06:04 PM
no he is not dead...like everyone said

deidara330
11-18-2009, 06:22 PM
no he is not dead...like everyone said
What proof do you have?

C4 Karura
11-18-2009, 06:22 PM
He is dead, that is something I am certain of. I will agree that he may be resurrected with an as of yet unkown jutsu or technique, but for the moment he is dead. My argument never suggested he wouldn't be brought back to life, but simply that he wasn't alive at all.
Alright.

321zigzag1
11-18-2009, 10:35 PM
Zetsu is alive obviously.

The black half is still alive.

Kenshin Mizoguchi
11-18-2009, 11:05 PM
I could fix this dead or not dead problem with one big bucket filled with weed killer. If you know what I mean, lol...

Memitim
11-18-2009, 11:10 PM
i thought he died

Noctis Lucis Caelum
12-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Zetsu is alive? thats good