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brunz
09-04-2009, 02:46 AM
well...its out so Discuss!

Zazuro
09-04-2009, 04:30 AM
Really interesting chapter. 10/10.
So if sasuke and naruto was chosen by fate. Two brothers was Uchiha & Senju and madara's uchiha and hashirama's Senju.

If it is to have Naruto and sasuke fight each other to continue the hatred of fate from the old legend tale....

Sasuke's Uchiha and NARUTO'S A SENJU?!? ................

ZackAttack
09-04-2009, 04:32 AM
Madara is pretty much saying that naruto reminds him of the 1st so the rivalry is continued by him and sasuke. Narutos not actually a senju he just represents one according to madara.

Nick Tasogare
09-04-2009, 04:37 AM
Well, does anyone else get the sense that Kishimoto contradicted himself on something? CoughTheSharinganxByakuganRelationCough. It was always said that Sharingan came from the Byakugan, but it seems that it actually descended directly from the Rinnegan. That means the Byakugan basically came from nowhere(unless Kishimoto does something about Byakugan).

It was always said that it went
Rinnegan-Byakugan-Sharingan But apparently, it went Rinnegan-Sharingan (Byakugan not apart if the equation)

Zazuro
09-04-2009, 04:38 AM
Madara is pretty much saying that naruto reminds him of the 1st so the rivalry is continued by him and sasuke. Narutos not actually a senju he just represents one according to madara.

Yeah but why fate choses them to continue the hatred? Doesn't it got to be Senju VS uchiha to continue the fate of hatred while Naruto's a Uzumaki/|/Namikaze, unless Minato's mother was a senju but married his a man with of Namikaze surname.

It couldn't be Kushina because she was from the Whirlpool Country.

ZackAttack
09-04-2009, 04:44 AM
Well, does anyone else get the sense that Kishimoto contradicted himself on something? CoughTheSharinganxByakuganRelationCough. It was always said that Sharingan came from the Byakugan, but it seems that it actually descended directly from the Rinnegan. That means the Byakugan basically came from nowhere(unless Kishimoto does something about Byakugan).

It was always said that it went
Rinnegan-Byakugan-Sharingan But apparently, it went Rinnegan-Sharingan (Byakugan not apart if the equation)

He's starting to do that a lot recently, I guess its getting to that point in the manga that he has to do some sort of contradicting to keep it interesting and keep us on our toes. The problem for me is that the story right now is going in 10 different directions and every week more and more stuff comes out that just doesn't make any sense right now.

princezzhinata
09-04-2009, 04:48 AM
I feeling that Naruto vs Sasuke battle is coming near!

Nick Tasogare
09-04-2009, 04:48 AM
Imo, he's throwing too much at once. It kinda does seem like the Manga is ending, or else, he wouldn't be rushing all of this information at once.

Skrall
09-04-2009, 04:55 AM
Naruto is not a Senju. I dont think that Madara said that literally. I think what Madara was trying to say is that Naruto has the same way of thinking like a Senju.

Zazuro
09-04-2009, 04:57 AM
Imo, he's throwing too much at once. It kinda does seem like the Manga is ending, or else, he wouldn't be rushing all of this information at once.

Yeah, I sorta feel overwhelmed of trying to remmeber this and that and this at the same time and figure out the hints, clues, secrets, and etc.
Just overwhelming. Even my head hurts when I think all of this stuff to figure out stuff. :S

deidara330
09-04-2009, 05:10 AM
Well, does anyone else get the sense that Kishimoto contradicted himself on something? CoughTheSharinganxByakuganRelationCough. It was always said that Sharingan came from the Byakugan, but it seems that it actually descended directly from the Rinnegan. That means the Byakugan basically came from nowhere(unless Kishimoto does something about Byakugan).

It was always said that it went
Rinnegan-Byakugan-Sharingan But apparently, it went Rinnegan-Sharingan (Byakugan not apart if the equation)
Actually, I think that the Byakugan might've decended from the Sharingan. But we won't know until later.
Yeah but why fate choses them to continue the hatred? Doesn't it got to be Senju VS uchiha to continue the fate of hatred while Naruto's a Uzumaki/|/Namikaze, unless Minato's mother was a senju but married his a man with of Namikaze surname.

It couldn't be Kushina because she was from the Whirlpool Country.
He doesn't have to be decended from a Senju, he just has the Senju's fire in him.
He's starting to do that a lot recently, I guess its getting to that point in the manga that he has to do some sort of contradicting to keep it interesting and keep us on our toes. The problem for me is that the story right now is going in 10 different directions and every week more and more stuff comes out that just doesn't make any sense right now.
I don't see this happening every week, just occasionally.
Imo, he's throwing too much at once. It kinda does seem like the Manga is ending, or else, he wouldn't be rushing all of this information at once.
It doesn't seem very close to the end to me. It also doesn't seem like he's rushing information, because this is the first big ninja history story we've heard in a while.

Enough about that, what about the fighting? Suigetsu was a match for Darui with half a sword. I'm eager to see how that fight turns out. Sasuke's genjutsu was kind of creepy, but it took Shii down. And Jugo's energy blast sure did a number on the Raikage, even though it didn't actually kill him.

brunz
09-04-2009, 05:15 AM
Yeah, I sorta feel overwhelmed of trying to remmeber this and that and this at the same time and figure out the hints, clues, secrets, and etc.
Just overwhelming. Even my head hurts when I think all of this stuff to figure out stuff. :S
yeah it is xD

Nick Tasogare
09-04-2009, 05:19 AM
Actually, I think that the Byakugan might've decended from the Sharingan. But we won't know until later.

((It was always said that the Sharingan is descended from the Byakugan, but the fact that A. The Hyuga, Senju and Uchiha were together when Konoha was founded makes that a little impossible, and B. It would be somewhat stupid for the Byakugan to come from Sharingan if you think about the abilities.))

He doesn't have to be decended from a Senju, he just has the Senju's fire in him.

((How are being an actual Senju, and having the fire of the Senju any different?))

I don't see this happening every week, just occasionally.

It doesn't seem very close to the end to me. It also doesn't seem like he's rushing information, because this is the first big ninja history story we've heard in a while.

((Still, he's revealing Naruto as a Senju, Madara as Tobi, Itachi's true intentions, and so much more at once. He's trying to fit it all in before the end of the series))

Enough about that, what about the fighting? Suigetsu was a match for Darui with half a sword. I'm eager to see how that fight turns out. Sasuke's genjutsu was kind of creepy, but it took Shii down. And Jugo's energy blast sure did a number on the Raikage, even though it didn't actually kill him.

Well, His half sword and Darui's sword were pretty much the same size. Sharingan's specialty is Genjutsu, of course he's gonna own Shii xD

Vivi
09-04-2009, 05:23 AM
I wonder what Genjutsu that Was Sasuke is used that was really creepy.

Didnt he say he wanted to try something out before he made his way there?
Maybe that was it not sure.

deidara330
09-04-2009, 05:29 AM
((It was always said that the Sharingan as descended from the Byakugan, but the fact that A. The Hyuga, Senju and Uchiha were together when Konoha was founded makes that a little impossible, and B. It would be somewhat stupid for the Byakugan to come from Sharingan if you think about the abilities.))

((Well, was it ever really proven that Sharingan decended from Byakugan, or was it just a rumor? Byakugan could've come from somewhere completely different.))

((How are being an actual Senju, and having the fire of the Senju any different?))

((Because he doesn't need to be a Senju to have their fire, And having their fire doesn't make him a Senju. My guess is he has it because the Senju of his generation, Nawaki, was dead.))

((Still, he's revealing Naruto as a Senju, Madara as Tobi, Itachi's true intentions, and so much more at once. He's trying to fit it all in before the end of the series))

((He didn't reveal Naruto as a Senju, Tobi being Madara was nearly 100 chapters ago, and Itachi's true intent had to be revealed when Sasuke fought him and killed him, and that had to happen during the story arc where he was hunting for Itachi, which it did. I don't think he's revealing too much all at once.))

Well, His half sword and Darui's sword were pretty much the same size. Sharingan's specialty is Genjutsu, of course he's gonna own Shii xD
I knew he was gonna own Shii, I just figured it would be later in the battle.

3littlepigs
09-04-2009, 10:50 AM
The problem for me is that the story right now is going in 10 different directions and every week more and more stuff comes out that just doesn't make any sense right now.

If you think Naruto's confusing read Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles. You'll be brain dead after each chapter :shock:, CLAMP's story is wayyyy more confusing! LOL;)

I loved the chapter! specially the part where Madara told them the truth about Itachi. It was necessary at this point since Naruto and the others had no idea why Sasuke joined Akatsuki if Itachi is dead. What Tobi explained pretty much confirms that he IS Madara...at least to me. It's true there's a contradiction since Kishi did say the Sharingan was supposed to have come from the Byakugan but at the same time when Kakashi said that to Naruto and Sakura he said it like it wasn't confirmed just a supposition and well Kakashi also thought what Madara was telling them was just a myth.

As I said before that thing behind Sasuke's just part of his new sharingan abilities and NOT a bijuu, and at least he took one of the jonin down...Karin's so useless she shouldn't be judging whether Juugo's useful or not :roll:.

I also took Madara's info as confirmation that Naruto's a Senju but it could also just be that he's similar to the 1st because of what's in his heart. Still, when Kakashi picked up Naruto after his fight with Sasuke he was saying to Pakkun how it was ironic that they would fight at that valley and that as long as Naruto and Sasuke were alive the cycle would never end so to me there's a possibility he already knew Minato was a Senju and that's what he was referring to but it's just my opinion.

Can't wait til next chapter!!

Zazuro
09-04-2009, 11:00 AM
If you think Naruto's confusing read Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles. You'll be brain dead after each chapter :shock:, CLAMP's story is wayyyy more confusing! LOL;)

I loved the chapter! specially the part where Madara told them the truth about Itachi. It was necessary at this point since Naruto and the others had no idea why Sasuke joined Akatsuki if Itachi is dead. What Tobi explained pretty much confirms that he IS Madara...at least to me. It's true there's a contradiction since Kishi did say the Sharingan was supposed to have come from the Byakugan but at the same time when Kakashi said that to Naruto and Sakura he said it like it wasn't confirmed just a supposition and well Kakashi also thought what Madara was telling them was just a myth.

As I said before that thing behind Sasuke's just part of his new sharingan abilities and NOT a bijuu, and at least he took one of the jonin down...Karin's so useless she shouldn't be judging whether Juugo's useful or not :roll:.

I also took Madara's info as confirmation that Naruto's a Senju but it could also just be that he's similar to the 1st because of what's in his heart. Still, when Kakashi picked up Naruto after his fight with Sasuke he was saying to Pakkun how it was ironic that they would fight at that valley and that as long as Naruto and Sasuke were alive the cycle would never end so to me there's a possibility he already knew Minato was a Senju and that's what he was referring to but it's just my opinion.

Can't wait til next chapter!!

Yeah, now since Madara told that Rikudou sennin legend tale, it was interesting but it's getting more confusing and a little more answers but it gotten more confusing over than plain good answrs to the plot hole questions.

Agreed about Kaakshi & Pakkun at the Final Valley statement there.

Vermillian
09-04-2009, 11:16 AM
I feeling that Naruto vs Sasuke battle is coming near!

Assuming Sasuke doesnt get rofld upon by Raikage xD

ninjamom
09-04-2009, 02:20 PM
Imo, he's throwing too much at once. It kinda does seem like the Manga is ending, or else, he wouldn't be rushing all of this information at once.

I agree. The pacing feels very rushed.

I'm still baffled by Sasuke's abrupt transformation from someone who battles but doesn't necessarily kill (as seen in training with Orochimaru; helping Suijetsu get Zabuza's sword, and in the prison mission to liberate Juugo) to some crazed murderous killing machine who attacks everyone, indiscriminately. I'm guessing it's due to the ominous chakra that's now seen emanating from Sasuke, but where did that come from? In 459, we see Sasuke looking crazed (pg. 12) followed by Tobi/Madara saying "Begin" on the following page. In 460 we first see Sasuke with what appears to me as being held in the palm of this evil chakra. Is Tobi/Madara somehow controlling Sasuke through this ominous chakra in an attempt to recast his battle with the 1st through Sasuke and Naruto? Does the senju connection for Naruto even need to be real if he's manipulating Sasuke and Naruto just to keep his old rivalry and hatred going?
I don't know myself. Any thoughts or other ideas?

Sasori_X
09-04-2009, 02:25 PM
To me, Kishimoto is making up the story on a whim ever since it entered the Pein arc. Which is why there is so many contradictions in the series.

And I don't think Kishi is going to end the series anytime soon. There still a lot he needs to cover to have a satisfying conclusion.

Nemico
09-04-2009, 02:34 PM
I wonder what Genjutsu that Was Sasuke is used that was really creepy.

Didnt he say he wanted to try something out before he made his way there?
Maybe that was it not sure.

Oh yea.. almost forgot about that
Yea that was pretty creepy i wonder if that was something new or not.

Kari-Chan
09-04-2009, 03:39 PM
So yeah, I'm thinkin' Naruto's a Senju. (or at least in someway related to the first, I think Minato is too.)
I've been thinking this for a while now and I know Madara didn't explicitly state that he was one, but I'm just saying that maybe it's a possibility.

Takoda
09-04-2009, 03:40 PM
So yeah, I'm thinkin' Naruto's a Senju. (or at least in someway related to the first, I think Minato is too.)
I've been thinking this for a while now and I know Madara didn't explicitly state that he was one, but I'm just saying that maybe it's a possibility.



Well, Minato is not related to any of the people in the Senju

Kari-Chan
09-04-2009, 03:45 PM
Well, Minato is not related to any of the people in the Senju


I'm not really sure who Minato is related to. I don't think Kishi really went into detail about that

Takoda
09-04-2009, 03:48 PM
I guess not.

ShariKage
09-04-2009, 03:49 PM
wow, narutos a senju, beast.

Takoda
09-04-2009, 03:51 PM
He is just seen as a Senju.

Densetsu_no_D
09-04-2009, 03:56 PM
Well we will definitely see what will happen down the line. I am shocked though to extent that the Sharingan is decended from the Rinnegan. SO I guess that would mean that Nagato is an Uchiha...Somehow instead of the Sharingan activiating, the Rinnegan did instead. Something like it passing down through the generations and Nagato was that one in a million or so.

All this being revealed is definitely setting up the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke but the question is...will Naruto fight or not. I can see him not fighting just to break the cycle of hatred and sacrificing himself to get through to Sasuke.

Also I think Jugo's level 2 cursed seal was crazy. I don't think anyone other then a Kage could've taken that attack.

Takoda
09-04-2009, 04:02 PM
Well, the Rinnegan also allows the user to see chakra, including otherwise hidden barriers. According to Nagato's partner Konan, the possessor of the Rinnegan is the seventh path of Pain, who is "beyond life and death", and can use the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique, which allows the Rinnegan user to revive all people who have died recently.

Kari-Chan
09-04-2009, 04:02 PM
He is just seen as a Senju.


I'm just saying it's a possibility. But I have a feeling he would say that Naruto is a Senju. After all it's not exactly impossible.

gaarasword
09-04-2009, 04:07 PM
that is true i'm surprised that suigetsu kept half of the sword

Takoda
09-04-2009, 04:07 PM
I'm just saying it's a possibility. But I have a feeling he would say that Naruto is a Senju. After all it's not exactly impossible.


I'm not saying its impossible. Because his fate and Sasukes are alike with the 1st Hokage and Madara.

Kenshin Mizoguchi
09-04-2009, 04:24 PM
I hope Naruto's is a Senju, because then that would be awesome!!!

I had a feeling too, that Juugo's attack wouldn't kill the Raikage, even at point-blank range.

Phenom
09-04-2009, 07:43 PM
I really enjoyed this chapter. The fact that Naruto is a Senju, or at least that is what I got out of it, is kind of a shock but not really one.

I personally like that Kishi keeps throwing a ton of info to remember at us because I like this kind of story rather than one a 3 year old can understand. Unless of course he is rushing towards the end of the series, in which case he needs to slow down.

Decendent of Sasuke
09-04-2009, 07:47 PM
i thought it was kind of funny how when naruto fought neji he talked about not having a destiny and now madara is telling him that he was chosen by destiny

brunz
09-04-2009, 09:23 PM
i thought this was an Awesome chapter. The best in a while

AuroraxEve
09-04-2009, 11:25 PM
I loved it! \o/ 10/10
Awesome...just, awesome.

Takoda
09-04-2009, 11:28 PM
But it was kind of short for a chapter.

Phariah824
09-05-2009, 01:47 AM
i enjoyed it, was a good chapter . only one problem it was too short lol

i posted on another thread a full explaination why i don't think Naruto is a Senju its just that he displays the same spirit that they had and what he was taught by the 3rd and jiraiya.

i knew Sasuke was gonna take the Shi down, hehe a sensory ninja lookin around = bad defense against sharringan genjutsu.

Jugo is awesome before i was like ok a Sasuke soldier . but now i have a better respect for him

GenFlower12
09-05-2009, 08:49 AM
It was a good chapter in my opinion:Da 10/10

uchiha_survivor68
09-05-2009, 10:29 AM
Yeah but why fate choses them to continue the hatred? Doesn't it got to be Senju VS uchiha to continue the fate of hatred while Naruto's a Uzumaki/|/Namikaze, unless Minato's mother was a senju but married his a man with of Namikaze surname.

It couldn't be Kushina because she was from the Whirlpool Country.

Who is Kushina?

uchiha_survivor68
09-05-2009, 10:41 AM
I think that Naruto has the will of the Sandaime inside of him while Sasuke has the will of Madara inside of him. (Even though Madara is still alive.) When I say will, I mean their "beliefs", like what brings peace to the world.
Well, besides that, I wonder where Sakura and others are right now. Probably heading over to help Naruto save Sasuke, ect. But I hope Sakura doesn't end up being a whimp in the end, as usual. (Sasuke Retrieval+Shippuden Sasuke Retrieval+Gaara vs Sasuke+Land of Waves+Forest of Death+much much more= Sakura a whimp.) I like Sakura, but I hate how whimpy she can be sometimes. Sorry to all Sakura fans, but Sakura isn't doing ANYONE a favor at this moment.

X__Sasuke__X
09-05-2009, 10:43 AM
it was frickin awesome!!!!

uchiha_survivor68
09-05-2009, 10:48 AM
it was frickin awesome!!!!

I agree! Sasuke vs Shii only lasted for like 7 seconds, hahahaha! In Chapter 461, Suigetsu is like "You think that Juugo will remember that he is on our side...?" I'd like to see Kisame and Killer Bee exchange some blows, it'd be like perfect destruction.

narutorocks
09-05-2009, 02:10 PM
Who is Kushina?


Kushina is Naruto's mom. (I put that in Spoiler Tags just in case;))

I really like this chapter! (Can't wait til next weeks!):mrgreen:
I kinda wanted to see Sakura come talk to Naruto... but maybe in a few more chapters.:???:

I thought that the Naruto and Madara conversation was interesting, but I don't think Naruto is a Senju, he just demonsrates Senju, um... fire/spirit? But he might actually be one, I guess we'll just have to wait until anythings confirmed.

As much as I don't like Sasuke, he totally owned that Shii guy. I really wanna see his big battle with the Kage!~ That should be cool.:mrgreen:

And thats it.. all in all I thought it was a really good chapter!

Vatanui AKA Pride
09-05-2009, 02:24 PM
It was a great chapter, and explained a lot.

narutoultra
09-05-2009, 03:00 PM
it said there descendents were uchia, it's possible that byaukugon and sharingon both came from him

IrunoHatake
09-06-2009, 04:38 PM
I think there are only contradictions because there are so many chapters to remember. I mean its like asking yourself what was the 100th word you've ever learned. I mean reading stuff in this forum keeps reminding me that there was a before Shippuden.