Neji vs PTS kakashi

[joon61]

Distance:50 meters
Location:Leaf village arena
Restrcitions:None

Who wins?

[PrinceofPeace]

Neji wins
Kaka shi'a strongest move is close up which is suicide


R.I.P. Neji

[konoha chimp]

I'd give this to Kakashi due to his overwhelming feats over Neji. Plus he has more experience and a wider arsenal of Jutsu.. yeah Kakashi wins

[megabbaut]

When I saw this thread I was thinking of Young Kakashi

[Shisko Shi]

Kakashi, he still is the same strong ninja.

[PrinceofPeace]

I'd give this to Kakashi due to his overwhelming feats over Neji. Plus he has more experience and a wider arsenal of Jutsu.. yeah Kakashi wins

Are assuming based on hype that Kakashi would win. Pleased don t really on hype rely on feats.


0lease tell me how Kakashi would land a hit
So you

[joon61]

This is just the kakashi from naruto, who can't use kamui.

[PrinceofPeace]

Think about it guys Kakashi can not win

Using chodori is too close and practically suicidal. Neji will air palms him or use 64palms

Neji would detect Kakashi underground and dodge

THere is no water source for Kakashi use water style jutsu

Even if Kakashi could use hidden mist that does not effect the bykugan

What can Kakashi do to do damage?

[Uchiha Sora]

Gotta give this to Neji. Neji's Taijutsu is as good as PTS Kakashi if not better. And it most likely is better. Rotation and air palms shut Kakashi down, byakugan allows Neji to see any surprise attacks.

Kakashi only had a few fights in PTS now that I think about it. Zabuza and.. Zabuza again :lol: then some fodder here, some fodder there..

[Vivi]

Pre Timeskip right?
Was about to say Kakashi doesn't need a water source but that was against Kakuzu.

[Shisko Shi]

WOuldn't Kakashi have already seen the gental fist moves from chunnin exams? Also the S eye will help right?

[Uchiha Sora]

Pre Timeskip right?
Was about to say Kakashi doesn't need a water source but that was against Kakuzu.

Pretty BS right? Tobirama has been hyped to be the only one to use water jutsu without a clear source.. Yet dozens of ninja are perfectly capable of doing so :lol:


Don't think he even used water wall PTS.

[PrinceofPeace]

WOuldn't Kakashi have already seen the gental fist moves from chunnin exams? Also the S eye will help right?

Yes Kakashi has knowledge

But sharigan does not help out much. Sharigan drains a lot of chakra and just because he can see/predict the attack does not mean he can dodge it

[Shisko Shi]

Well he ins't slow but I mean Kakashi would have to be up close.

[サスケ]

does PTS mean Post Time Skip? if it does then i have bad news for Neji. You can't stop a character that constantly spams 1 move in a fight and has infinity chakra for some reason.

[BoxHead]

Nah, I think he means Pre Timeskip. If post TS, then Kakashi cranks the Kamui machine.

[Maruko]

Neji would win that.
Hyuuga are not Konoha's strongest for nothing.
TS Neji is a jonin like Kakashi. No Kamui = Defeat for Kakashi

Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakaashi.

[Devils Lawyer]

Neji should win but barely. The only thing Kakashi shown in part 1 was the sharigan, raikiri, and some taijutsu. All of it was pretty basic too.

[Vivi]

Neji should win but barely. The only thing Kakashi shown in part 1 was the sharigan, raikiri, and some taijutsu. All of it was pretty basic too.

What?

Summons
Clones
Gates
Genjutsu
Suiton but that's irrelevant here.
Doton

[Devils Lawyer]

Actually you know what forgot he used most of that in pt 1. There goes Neji limited chance.:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

How does Kakashi use that to kill neji

[BMC1994]

A Genjutsu + Raikiri combo should be able to take neji out. Kakashi has no chance with just his taijutsu.

[PrinceofPeace]

Since when could Kakashi used genjutsu. He had nothing on that level to take out neji. Also with bykugan neji would know he is in genjutsu. Neji would not even make eye contact.

Like I said if Kakashi gets close rotation or 64 or palms ends it

[BMC1994]

Since the first bell test and the episodes/chapters after that.

Everyone knows that they are in a genjutsu even without dojutsu ,why wouldnt neji make eye contact?

[Uchiha Sora]

I'm almost positive byakugan sees through genjutsu.

[BMC1994]

I dont remember that ever being claimed. Nor an byakugan user that ever was fighting a genjutsu user.

[PrinceofPeace]

I know Kakashi can use genjutsu but he used it on boy crazy Sakura. Neji is a jonin. He is not as foolish. And the bykugan can see though genjutsu. When hinata engage tobi she checked if there was a genjutsu taking place.

Neji would easily break out if genjutsu with his chakra control

[BMC1994]

If she can see through any genjutsu anyway how would she notice that someone was trying to put her in one. The only thing she could do is check the chakra network for disturbances but that doesnt mean she can see through them just see if someone is in an genjutsu.

[PrinceofPeace]

Your right that's what I was trying today there. Plus Kakashi genjutsu was on a lower level. They do not cause harm

[megabbaut]

I dont remember that ever being claimed. Nor an byakugan user that ever was fighting a genjutsu user.
Byakugan has shown some ability to see through genjutsu. Chapter 394 pg 15, ch 459 pg 15. It can even see through the jutsu placed on the 4th mizukage.

[BMC1994]

Ao probably noticed that yaguras chakra system was disturbed. I doubt obito perceived ao as an actual threat.

We cant be for sure on hinata as she never was under an genjutsu.

[PrinceofPeace]

So how does Kakashi win?

When Kakashi fought team 7 he was using lower rank ninjutsu. He was going easy on them. He easily caught a distracted frantic Sakura with genjutsu. And the way Kakashi was saying the Jutsu was low level. Sakura leaned about genjutsu but he was not thinking clearly

Kakashi also used genjutsu on zabuza but it was not anything major. Kakashi's genjutsu would not harm the foe in anyway possible. Plus neji has the bykugan an he is an elite jonin so that kind of genjutsu won't work

Kakashi does not have the speed not reaction to get past a hyugga taijutsu style.
Lighting blade is the only thing we saw Kakashi kill a foe with and he needs to be close up which is suicide!

Without lighting blade Kakashi can not win. He does have the sharigan to help him dodge and react better but just because Kakashi can see it does not mean he can react in time.

And giving an air palms or 64 palms would be impossible to react to

[Uchiha Sora]

I dont remember that ever being claimed. Nor an byakugan user that ever was fighting a genjutsu user.

Yeah I misperceived it.

They can only see if someone is casting or under a genjutsu

[BMC1994]

@Pop

Elite jonin? Neji was just an regular jonin -.-

The genjutsu doesnt have to harm neji (which most genjutsu dont do as they are illusions) it just has to create an opening for a raikiri through the chest.

He doesnt have to react while neji is immobilized/trying to escape an genjutsu. As neji will be temporary defenseless.

[PrinceofPeace]

Neji could take down most Jonin. Especially Ebisu who was an elite jonin. I dont mean he was elite like Ebisu and his job title but Neji could take down Asuma and Kureani for example. Maybe even Kakashi without kaumi

I knowz but the opening would not be big. And the best genjutsu harm the user mentally. Kakashi used D-rank level genjutsu on team 7. Do you really think It will take that long to realize and for Neji to break out of genjutsu? Leaves coming out of nowhere is a huge give away. Plus Kakashi has to stand in place to use genjutsu.

[konoha chimp]

I actually can't believe some people are saying Neji would win :shock:

[PrinceofPeace]

I cant believe you dont explain why neji would win

[Vivi]

Byakugan has shown some ability to see through genjutsu. Chapter 394 pg 15,

ch 459 pg 15.

It can even see through the jutsu placed on the 4th mizukage.

Oh yeah, now Obitos Kamui is a Genjutsu.

All Ao saw Shisuis Chakra under Danzos Eye Bandage and deducted that Danzo uses it.

Genjutsu affects a persons cerebral system which is a part of the Chakra System thus of course a Byakugan user sees through it.Doesn't mean it works on themselves as they are the center point unless you can provide a panel where a Byakugan user has shown to look within themselves.


Since when could Kakashi used genjutsu. Since way back during the Bell Test against someone who is stated to be the Genjutsu type.
And don't give me "Lol it was Noob Sakura", she perfectly disrupted Kabuto's Genjutsu and is stated to have tremendous Chakra control.

Also with bykugan neji would know he is in genjutsu.

Neji would not even make eye contact. No he wouldn't.You're just misinterpreting Ao.

Kakashis Genjutsu didn't require Eye Contact.



Also:
I like how you constantly go all 64 Palms when kakashi charges in, it's not like Sharingan reads movements.And 64 Palms always start with measly 2 hits doubling.

As for Rotation did it ever block a non physical attack?

[PrinceofPeace]

Since way back during the Bell Test against someone who is stated to be the Genjutsu type.
tat weak ish aient going do ish on Neji (ghetto talk)
Seriously though Kakashi has to stand still to use that genjutsu.
Petals are an obvious genjutsu plus Neji would know he is in genjutsu. ANd what genjutsu would effect Neji? There is nobody else on the field.

No he wouldn't.You're just misinterpreting Ao.

Kakashis Genjutsu didn't require Eye Contact.


You guys are SERIOUSLY overestamting Kakahi's genjutsu. It is a D-rank genjutsu afterall that caught PTS SAKURA of all people

afterall there is a possiblity that Neji has no major fears or anything that would effect hiim much via fear. Neji was scared of his clans issues (not really) but not that it is resolved he has no know fears

Neji would see his chakra flow is disturbed and release it.

[Vivi]

It's in my post stop playing dumb, I mentioned about Sakura.

So what if it's D-Rank?
So is Body Flicker we know how great it is.
Learn from Zetsu, it's all up to the user.

Other D-Ranks are Hidden Mist Jutsu or Kibas Beast Clone and Tsuga.
Heck even Orochimaru used D-Rank Jutsu with great effects.

[PrinceofPeace]

how am I playing dumb when you edit what you say after it I counter it

Neji has no known fear so the genjutsu has no effect

So now you compare the start of PTS Sakura to the end of PTS Sakura?!?!?!

Even Kakashi said that she fell for it easily

[Devils Lawyer]

To be honest I see kakashi raping with just taijutsu and raikiri. I didnt ment I'll on it because I dont feel like explaining myself. He has engaged way more skilled fighters than Neji. Zabuza rapes considering what it takes to put him down.

[PrinceofPeace]

^this kind of thinking is why Neji wins

Zabuza that is the ONLY person Kakashi fought in part one and won against. Neji would beat him easily cuz he can see in the mist

Kabuto outsmarted Kakashi with ease
and
Itachi was toying with Kakashi

What taijutsu feats surpass Neji's

Plus using the sharigan so much takes a bigger toll on Kakashi. Kakashi was out of breath after his short fight against Zabuza

[Devils Lawyer]

Number 1 no proof of Neji seeing through the mist.

Number 2 Kabuto is a straight up beast in hand 2 hand and combat the way he went head up against Tsunade and shizune is proof of that. So how that is a point against Kakashi I don't know.

Number 3 you fail to see how the skill difference can't help you there. Except point to the fact Zabuza is faster, and more powerful than Neji. If you disagree name someone of worth Neji actually defeated. This comes up to number 4.

Number 4 Kakashi has troubles with the experts in the story. It is actually pretty vague where Neji speed and skill level was at. He actually hasn't shown anything really impressive in part 2 . Except for fight a clone of kisame. He had help with that so that is nothing.

[PrinceofPeace]

lol you need proof. The bykugan can see though the mist. It can't fool the bykugan but, due to the mist being created with the user's chakra, any sharigan and rinnegan -user will see the mist coloured by their opponent's chakra, which will effectively hide the user from the dojutsu . The bykugan does not just see chakra it can differnciate between it. It would see the foe because it has a different amount of charka than the mist.

Lol you are taking the Tsuande and shizuen fight as proof. Tsuande is slow. Kabuto was dodging just to get her tired and she STILL got a small hit on him. Plus Tsuande was in her phobia state she was not at her best. And Shizune is not that good at taijutsu. There was barely a battle between them.

PTS Neji defeated Kidomaru who is an overall bigger threat than Zabuza.

so what do you want? speed and reaction feats of Neji?

[Devils Lawyer]

lol you need proof. The bykugan can see though the mist. It can't fool the bykugan but, due to the mist being created with the user's chakra, any sharigan and rinnegan -user will see the mist coloured by their opponent's chakra, which will effectively hide the user from the dojutsu . The bykugan does not just see chakra it can differnciate between it. It would see the foe because it has a different amount of charka than the mist.
Chapter and page of byakugan supporting your claim.

Lol you are taking the Tsuande and shizuen fight as proof. Tsuande is slow. Kabuto was dodging just to get her tired and she STILL got a small hit on him. Plus Tsuande was in her phobia state she was not at her best. And Shizune is not that good at taijutsu. There was barely a battle between them.
Yeah no Tsunade is not slow Kabuto was just that fast. As seen by her interactions with Madara everyone within that group is fast by Naruto standards. Also Tsunade wasn't in her phobia state the whole entire fight. How you don't see the skill level difference between characters is beyond me.


PTS Neji defeated Kidomaru who is an overall bigger threat than Zabuza.

so what do you want? speed and reaction feats of Neji?
Yeah kidomaru is not a bigger threat than zabuza. Zabuza would speed rape Kidomaru. Also yeah lets see those Neji.

[PrinceofPeace]

wow its even in Narutpedia. IF you want a hyugga clearly seeing in the mist as a reference in the manga. I am just telling you what the bkyugan can do. I am telling its natural ablitiy of why it can see though the mist clearly. It sees charka amounts. For example Neji could not tell naruto's clones apart becasue they had the same amount of chakra. The mist and the user do not have the same amount of chakra. The bykugan is the best at seeing chakra flow and deciphering the difference. I already gave you proof. You have to believe it or give me proof of how I am wrong


PTS Tsuande is not the same speed as current Tsuane. Especiall when Tsuande is in FUL BYYKAN mode. And did you even read the manga of kabuto vs Tsuande or did you just watch the manga. Tsuande and Kabuto was mostly off cannon. Read the end of 163 and 164 and tell me what Tsuande did that was so fast. at the beggining of 164 we CLEARLY see that Tsuande is out of breath while and broke a sweat while Kabuto is cool as a cucumber. Kabuto COMPELETLY out speed her. Tsuande only got a small hit in because she took him by surpise. Tsuande could not even hit Kabuto in time when he was paralzyed

how would Zabuza get past kidomaro's webs? He can not slice though it and there is usually not a lot of water around a battlefiled. Also Kidobomar can throw his webby gold weapons in every direction or use gold armor would shield him from a sneak attack. Lol do I need to make a thread for this?

what speed feats compete with Neji countering Kidimaro;s arrors? Kakashi could not even do that. What close up speed feat does Kakashi have?

[Devils Lawyer]

wow its even in Narutpedia. IF you want a hyugga clearly seeing in the mist as a reference in the manga. I am just telling you what the bkyugan can do. I am telling its natural ablitiy of why it can see though the mist clearly. It sees charka amounts. For example Neji could not tell naruto's clones apart becasue they had the same amount of chakra. The mist and the user do not have the same amount of chakra. The bykugan is the best at seeing chakra flow and deciphering the difference. I already gave you proof. You have to believe it or give me proof of how I am wrong
Narutopedia is a fan made site which was referencing the anime. So where in the manga does it support seeing through the mist when the sharigan couldn't.


PTS Tsuande is not the same speed as current Tsuane. Especiall when Tsuande is in FUL BYYKAN mode. And did you even read the manga of kabuto vs Tsuande or did you just watch the manga. Tsuande and Kabuto was mostly off cannon. Read the end of 163 and 164 and tell me what Tsuande did that was so fast. at the beggining of 164 we CLEARLY see that Tsuande is out of breath while and broke a sweat while Kabuto is cool as a cucumber. Kabuto COMPELETLY out speed her. Tsuande only got a small hit in because she took him by surpise. Tsuande could not even hit Kabuto in time when he was paralzyed


Again you are looking for speed lines. You can actually almost count on the two hands the number of times kishi focused in on the characters highspeed movements. Almost every fight in Naruto the characters are moving at highspeeds. The drawing is meant to show the fight vs the bleach and db approach of speed lines galore. Then nothing you says takes away from Kabuto's skill level. It only reinforces this fact. Are you trying to say Neji could duplicate the feat?:lol:
how would Zabuza get past kidomaro's webs? He can not slice though it and there is usually not a lot of water around a battlefiled. Also Kidobomar can throw his webby gold weapons in every direction or use gold armor would shield him from a sneak attack. Lol do I need to make a thread for this?

what speed feats compete with Neji countering Kidimaro;s arrors? Kakashi could not even do that. What close up speed feat does Kakashi have?

Zabuza would avoid kidomaru web casually and rape Kidomaru without trying. You honestly don't know the gap between Jounin and chunin. The sound 4 as a group could barely handle two special jounin. The story point blank outlines the difference in strength, speed, and skill.

Did you just say Kakashi couldn't dodge kidomaru arrows? Are you crazy what story have you have been reading. The gap between Jounin and the peons which is what kidomaru is massive. Hence why all the jounins were sent away for plot purposes in the story.

[PrinceofPeace]

Narutopedia is a fan made site which was referencing the anime. So where in the manga does it support seeing through the mist when the sharigan couldn't.

I just gave you proof. And you can not prove what I said was wrong. Plus this is irrelevent thsi is not Nieji vs Zabuza. And that htread has been made before and Neji already won. You did not give any proof that I said was wrong. I gave more proof than just from Narutpedia. And you and I both know that site is not compeletly wrong especially about talking about jutsu. Go search the neji and Zabuza thread if you like or go make one.WHERE IS YOUR PROOF!


Again you are looking for speed lines. You can actually almost count on the two hands the number of times kishi focused in on the characters highspeed movements. Almost every fight in Naruto the characters are moving at highspeeds. The drawing is meant to show the fight vs the bleach and db approach of speed lines galore. Then nothing you says takes away from Kabuto's skill level. It only reinforces this fact. Are you trying to say Neji could duplicate the feat?:lol:


That is not speed feats that is how Kishi drew it. If those counted as S[eed feats than Hinata is faster than Sakura and she is on PTS Hinata is on speed with PTS Neji.
Do you REALLY want to make a thread on this pal?
this is not a Neji vs people who fought Kakashi thread. If you wanna see that Neji can beat the Kabuto or Zabuza go make the thread

Zabuza would avoid kidomaru web casually and rape Kidomaru without trying.
NO proof of this. I am not talking about this with you anymore. Go make the thread or drop the topic
You honestly don't know the gap between Jounin and chunin.
YOU honestly don't know that ranks dont mean ish
The sound 4 as a group could barely handle two special jounin. The story point blank outlines the difference in strength, speed, and skill.
off-cannon. This is as useless as Kabuto vs Tsuande


Did you just say Kakashi couldn't dodge kidomaru arrows? Are you crazy what story have you have been reading. The gap between Jounin and the peons which is what kidomaru is massive. Hence why all the jounins were sent away for plot purposes in the story
read chapter 194 and 195. How does Kakashi dodge an attack coming from all directions? And if you think lines are a sign of speed then neji must be really fast cuz his 64palms were really quick. There wre not enough jonin they were ALREADY sent away. It was not only plot but common sense. How does kakashi dodge the attacks from Kidomaro
.

So your saying Kakashi would hit Neji before Neji could react :lol:

[Devils Lawyer]

^I have come to realization some ;);););) is not worth responding to. Lol at that post. Bro there is terrible then there is straight up ;);););).:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

which is why neji wins

[Devils Lawyer]

The sad thing about that post is you are serious.:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

The sad thing is that your not banned from the BGs yet
---------
Overall Kakashi needs to come up close for the kill which is suicide

[megabbaut]

This is starting to get out of hand

[PrinceofPeace]

I don't recall any impressive speed feats that out do neji

[Shikamaru Nara]

Neji would win that.
Hyuuga are not Konoha's strongest for nothing.
TS Neji is a jonin like Kakashi. No Kamui = Defeat for Kakashi

Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakaashi.

LOL.

Tsunade is Hokage, which is supposed to be the village's strongest ninja.
Would you say that Tsunade beats Naruto?
Tsunade beats Kakashi?
Tsunade beats Gai?

And it's funny how you say that Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakashi when Kakashi has a three tomoe Sharingan, which enables him to predict the movements of Neji, even in his PTS state.

There's no way that Neji beats Kakashi.
Raikiri would be too easy to hit Neji with since he can predict his movements.

[Uchiha Sora]

Kakashi isnt winnin this without genjutsu and possibly dogs. Although genjutsu is countered since he'll know if Kakashi is gonna try it.

Neji can see the lightning chakra forming with byakugan and prepare to rotate.

You can't block gentle fist. Close combat is suicide for Kakashi. He won't be dodging every hit. he'd have to block eventually. even when NEJI blocks he can still destroy kakashis chakra network.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Why wouldn't he be able to dodge every hit?
Did you see the beginning of the Naruto Vs. Sasuke fight?

Kakashi can do a number of other things, too.
He can obstruct the vision of Neji by using a Fireball, which is also made of Chakra. As far as Neji is concerned, even if he can see through the massive chakra concentrated fireball, he won't recognize that it's a Raikiri that Kakashi is charging up. Rather, he'd just think that the fireball in concentrated into one area of the fireball.

Once Neji rotates to block that, since that's apparently all he does :roll:, Neji will meet his unfortunate demise and take a Raikiri to the knee.

[Uchiha Sora]

Why wouldn't he be able to dodge every hit?
Did you see the beginning of the Naruto Vs. Sasuke fight?

Kakashi can do a number of other things, too.
He can obstruct the vision of Neji by using a Fireball, which is also made of Chakra. As far as Neji is concerned, even if he can see through the massive chakra concentrated fireball, he won't recognize that it's a Raikiri that Kakashi is charging up. Rather, he'd just think that the fireball in concentrated into one area of the fireball.

Once Neji rotates to block that, since that's apparently all he does :roll:, Neji will meet his unfortunate demise and take a Raikiri to the knee.

Do you mean when Sasuke got the third tomoe? Unlike Naruto, Nejis not the type to just linear blitz and throw one punch... Which is all sasuke dodged. Staying in close-quarters and constantly dodging while also trying to attack is much harder to do without eventually blocking. And the fact Kakashi can't come into contact with Nejis hands makes things much harder on him.

So did you forget what byakugan does or what? He can see anything in a 800m radius IIRC. He can see behind the fireball too. There's also the fact raikiri is loud as hell.

Also Kakashi has never used a fire ball canonically.

[konoha chimp]

LOL.

Tsunade is Hokage, which is supposed to be the village's strongest ninja.
Would you say that Tsunade beats Naruto?
Tsunade beats Kakashi?
Tsunade beats Gai?

And it's funny how you say that Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakashi when Kakashi has a three tomoe Sharingan, which enables him to predict the movements of Neji, even in his PTS state.

There's no way that Neji beats Kakashi.
Raikiri would be too easy to hit Neji with since he can predict his movements.

I agree with this ^ :P

[Uchiha Sora]

@chimp You can't just say "I agree"

You have to provide some reasoning of your own :lol:

[konoha chimp]

There's nothing more to say xD people just wont be reasoned with, I just fail to see how Neji wins in anyway that's all

[Uchiha Sora]

How about disproving what others have said? :/

Reading through the thread, all you have said is who would win, and that you can't believe others think neji would win.

You haven't tried reasoning with anybody yourself :lol: this is what these threads are for

[konoha chimp]

I did not know my fight threads were this popular. My god.

They TROLL me soooo much!!! :mad: :lol:

I just think when you riddle this thread down it comes down to Neji using Rotation (If Kakashi even attempts to beat Neji with Taijutsu which imo he is not dumb enough to try)
And I just think people need to realize that Kakashi has a Sharingan which would percieve Neji's Taijutsu attacks anyway.. And in regards to Kakashi's arsenal of Jutsu, he could spam long range Jutsu e.g. Fire release, he has genjutsu and his dog summonings and that's not accounting for his earth style or summonings :roll:

There are other things which people just cant/wont take into consideration like feats/Difference in intellect and experience.

[PrinceofPeace]

Kakashi has no fire style that is off cannon
His genjutsu was a weak D-rank Jutsu that easily fooled a gennin. Even Sakura in part 2 saw though it. Plus genjutsu ha no know dear so the genjutsu is useless

And what earth style would hurt neji? With the bkygian would se Kakashi underground and the dogs don't do anything. One gentle fist and they are out

Again just because the sharigan can predict and see movements does not mean Kakashi could dodge. Saskue could dodge naruto's weak and slow taijutsu but this is one of the strongest hyuugas

[konoha chimp]

Ok then now.. Explain how Neji would win?

EDIT: Actually forget it I give up, seriously :lol: you should add a poll and ask various members of the forum to vote and just settle it that way.
I just think you guys are spending all your time explaining why Kakashi wouldn't win and I haven't actually heard a valid reason as to how Neji would win.

[PrinceofPeace]

Glad to

Neji has better taijutsu feats than Kakashi. And neji has better hype. Also neji has better reactions due to his vision

The only move that will work to harm neji is chodori. But chodori is a close up attack which as kidarmaro mentions is suicide!

I will finish later can't talk atm

[konoha chimp]

^ This :| you want to add feats into the equation? seriously? :| you want to weigh in Neji's feats to Kakashi's are you serious?! That is all Neji has, Taijutsu feats because he specializes in Taijutsu! Kakashi has feats in nearly every aspect.
And as for hype.. Neji became Chunin at 15. Kakashi was Jonin and probably had more feats/hype then Neji at the age of 13. He is now 30.

And I fail to believe that the byakugan gives higher reactions than the Sharingan.
The only notible feats I can think of when it comes to Neji is that he's part of Konoha's most elite clan (Not including the Uchiha) and that he beat and the fact that he beat Kidomaru (barely) in which case I would say that Kakashi beat Zabuza which is clearly a more advanced ninja than Kidomaru (for obvious reasons which I shouldn't have to explain)

[Uchiha Sora]

Neji wins because Kakashi isn't fast enough to overwhelm him. Neji can still block his punches and block the chakra in his hands which is basicaly game over right there. No hand seals, no raikiri. Neji doesn't have a problem taking on multiple opponents as seen by when he raped a bunch of those summoning bugs and Naruto clones.

Neji's air palms and rotation lock down his defense.

Using sharingan too much also wears Kakashi down a crap ton PTS.

[konoha chimp]

First off I would say raping those bugs and Naruto clones in hardly a feat is it now? :lol:

And all of that is implying that Kakashi would try to beat him with Taijutsu which Imo he isn't stupid enough to attempt.
You can't just say Neji would win based on the implication that Kakashi would do something which is totally out of character (IMO)

[Uchiha Sora]

@Chimp Not really, no. but Its not how strong they were, but how many of them there were. If it wasnt for the webs binding him he wouldn't have even gotten a scratch. The dogs won't be much of a problem at all, zetsus would be superior to the dogs as well.

your right, CqC would be a bad move. But kakashi's not taking him from long range either.

[konoha chimp]

And what leads you to believe that Kakashi wouldn't win at long range? any evidence/feats that suggest this is true?

[Uchiha Sora]

^What jutsu does he have at long range to use -.-

Lets count them. ... none.

NEJI has more long range ninjutsu :lol: At least more that hes capable of using in this fight

[konoha chimp]

Kakashi Hatake. The man who has copied out 1000 Jutsu has no long range Jutsu in his arsenal? and funny enough with that logic pts Naruto should of never been able to beat pts Neji yet look what happened?

[Uchiha Sora]

1000 jutsu? They could all be close quarters jutsu. Or maybe long range jutsu that won't even work. hype my friend, hype. We can't just say he uses a jutsu we don't know he even has.

PnJ my friend, PnJ.

Neji wasn't even hurt that entire fight, yet a single uppercut from BASE PTS NARUTO put him out. makes sense. Also Neji turned off his byakugan due to cockiness, which doesn't happen here.


Got an SAT class to go to , adios

[konoha chimp]

Hmm.. considering he copied Zabuza's water dragon I'm going to guess they were not all close range, while I agree with it being hype.

And what I would say is that Neji doesn't go through the whole fight unscathed in this fight. So you're saying the Canon doesn't make sense now? :???:

And from your responses it's implying that Neji is the strongest Jonin in the village with the best Taijutsu and no weaknesses what-so-ever, both of which I strongly disagree with.

[Devils Lawyer]

The sad thing is that your not banned from the BGs yet
---------
Overall Kakashi needs to come up close for the kill which is suicide

It's sad your faggotry isn't banned.:lol:

@Uchiha where in the story has Neji shown speed or a skill level capable handling kakashi going all out in close combat. Neji most spectacular standing was against Kisame. Neji hasn't went against not one person of Kakashi's caliber the entire story

[Uchiha Sora]

@Chimp H can't use water dragon though. No water source.

I don't understand what your saying here. I'm saying it was a plot device. Neji turned off his byakugan. And he was ko'd by a single punch from a tired Naruto. Plot. Either way his stamina and durability are far above that now so it doesn't even matter.

He doesn't have the best Taijutsu in the village . Hiashi does. :lol: Neji's not the strongest jonin. This is PTS Kakashi, not current Kakashi. Current kakashi is superior to current neji. So is Guy. Maybe even Asuma.

[konoha chimp]

I'm not saying he uses water dragon I was just saying that he does have long ranged Jutsu

But wasn't PTS Kakashi the strongest Jonin in the village during part one?

Actually nevermind that, that's a whole other debate :lol:

[Shikamaru Nara]

Do you mean when Sasuke got the third tomoe? Unlike Naruto, Nejis not the type to just linear blitz and throw one punch... Which is all sasuke dodged. Staying in close-quarters and constantly dodging while also trying to attack is much harder to do without eventually blocking. And the fact Kakashi can't come into contact with Nejis hands makes things much harder on him.

Also Kakashi has never used a fire ball canonically.

Yeah. There was a clear difference in how Sasuke was getting his ass kicked in the beginning of the fight up until Naruto went Kyuubi field and Sasuke got his third tomoe and was suddenly able to predict all movements and went super god mode and everything. :/

And Naruto may have only thrown one punch, but Kyuubi Field Naruto = Neji in speed. And that was before Naruto Vs. Sasuke in the Chuunin Exam arc. And Naruto's attacks aren't linear, lol.

Actually, chapter 230 page 7 perfectly illustrates Naruto NOT moving in a straight line.

So did you forget what byakugan does or what? He can see anything in a 800m radius IIRC. He can see behind the fireball too. There's also the fact raikiri is loud as hell.

Did you read my post? I said he would think the fireball is just concentrated in one area. :roll:

Bunshin Feint.
He doesn't really need a fireball, that was an example.

Not to mention the fact that Neji can't see underground, which is what headhunter is for.

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah. There was a clear difference in how Sasuke was getting his ass kicked in the beginning of the fight up until Naruto went Kyuubi field and Sasuke got his third tomoe and was suddenly able to predict all movements and went super god mode and everything. :/
i agree there was a huge difference. But that was a TRUE Uchiha. But saskue and kakashi's sharigan is not the same. When Kakashi uses the sharigan it takes a major toll on his body. After each battle with zany a he was extremely fatigued by using it. And Kakashi still got hit by zabuza and was fooled by kabuto. And PTS naruto is slower than Neji. Just because Kakashi can see and predict it does not mean he can react to it.

And Naruto may have only thrown one punch, but Kyuubi Field Naruto = Neji in speed. And that was before Naruto Vs. Sasuke in the Chuunin Exam arc. And Naruto's attacks aren't linear, lol.
even PTS Neji kept up with PTS chakra enhances naruto so since PTS Neji kept up and surivied Neji would easily

Actually, chapter 230 page 7 perfectly illustrates Naruto NOT moving in a straight line.
agreed


Did you read my post? I said he would think the fireball is just concentrated in one area. :roll:
but Kakashi can not even use fire style
Bunshin Feint.
He doesn't really need a fireball, that was an example.
so if he is not using fireball then what would he use

Not to mention the fact that Neji can't see underground, which is what headhunter is for.
Rotation protects him from underground. And didn't Neji see the zesty underground? And by the time Kakashi tried to pull him Dow. Neji would use body blow


I am here for support Sora

ignoring all of DL post forever and always


And don't forget that part 1 Kakashi could barely use the sharigan for long periods of time. He may not even start out using the sharigan

[konoha chimp]

Since when did Rotation protect him from underground? any proof?

[Shikamaru Nara]

If I remember correctly he was relatively unscathed when he was fighting a Shippuden Naruto and Sakura. He was only fatigued in the beginning of Shippuden when he tried to use Kamui, but regular Sharingan didn't seem to be a problem for him. I don't recall him being bed bound or hospitalized once in PTS. And I don't think Neji is all that fast, to be completely honest.

Gai, being one of the fastest ninja in Naruto, is equally matched with Kakashi. Going by that logic, Kakashi > Neji in speed.

Again, an example.

As for what Kakashi can use, he can use clone feints, raikiri, and headhunter, which is key. As far as I am concerned, Neji can only see above ground. If Kakashi goes underground, Neji will have a hard time locating him. And then Kakashi hits him with a Raikiri and wins. And there's no counter for that.

Where are you getting the whole fatigue argument from?
I recall that just being with MS.

[Devils Lawyer]

Since when did Rotation protect him from underground? any proof?

There is none that is pop being pop.:lol:

[konoha chimp]

Oh lol :roll: :lol: ^ Again I still believe Shikamaru is right (Go shikamaru :D)

[Devils Lawyer]

If I remember correctly he was relatively unscathed when he was fighting a Shippuden Naruto and Sakura. He was only fatigued in the beginning of Shippuden when he tried to use Kamui, but regular Sharingan didn't seem to be a problem for him. I don't recall him being bed bound or hospitalized once in PTS. And I don't think Neji is all that fast, to be completely honest.

Gai, being one of the fastest ninja in Naruto, is equally matched with Kakashi. Going by that logic, Kakashi > Neji in speed.

Again, an example.

As for what Kakashi can use, he can use clone feints, raikiri, and headhunter, which is key. As far as I am concerned, Neji can only see above ground. If Kakashi goes underground, Neji will have a hard time locating him. And then Kakashi hits him with a Raikiri and wins. And there's no counter for that.

Where are you getting the whole fatigue argument from?
I recall that just being with MS.

He passed out after fatigue from the first fight with Zabuza. That was only because he was protecting four other individuals though and he was copying Zabuza movements. Took a lot of chakra from him. Also stop trying to use logic with pop.:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

If I remember correctly he was relatively unscathed when he was fighting a Shippuden Naruto and Sakura. He was only fatigued in the beginning of Shippuden when he tried to use Kamui, but regular Sharingan didn't seem to be a problem for him. I don't recall him being bed bound or hospitalized once in PTS. And I don't think Neji is all that fast, to be completely honest.
Why are we talking about Part II Kakashi?
Kakashi was only hospitalized when he fought Itachi but he was on cruches after the battle with Zabuza

Gai, being one of the fastest ninja in Naruto, is equally matched with Kakashi. Going by that logic, Kakashi > Neji in speed.
Which ones are you talking about Part I or II. Guy said himself and Saskue acknowledge that base Guy Part I is faster than Kakashi base part I

Again, an example.

As for what Kakashi can use, he can use clone feints,
Neji can see though the clones with bkyugan. Kakashi's clones are not as good as naruto's iirc and Kakashi can not use that much clones
raikiri,
he can use it about 4 times and his clones can not use it. It would be suicide to go in this close.
and headhunter, which is key. As far as I am concerned, Neji can only see above ground. If Kakashi goes underground, Neji will have a hard time locating him.
Why can Neji not see underground? Neji can see though solid objects and chakra so when he looks towards the ground he would see Kakashi clearly. Plus Neji can use rotation to protect himself
And then Kakashi hits him with a Raikiri and wins. And there's no counter for that.
Rotation...or getting out of the way and not sitting there. Naruto already surprised him underground once the same would not happen to a genuis like Neji.

Where are you getting the whole fatigue argument from?
Zabuza vs Kakashi
I recall that just being with MS.

Oh DL how I LOVE to prove you wrong and make you look more like a troll.

Read chap 101 especially starting on page 5. Neji spun and made a circle in the ground. The rotation is a dome. Have you even seen it in games? Neji makes a full shpere! The Rotation is so powerful it damages the surface so that it is in a dome fashion.

THANK YOU HH`<3

[サスケ]

Didn't Kakashi say that he was the weakest out of Konoha 11?

[Noctis Arashi]

Oh DL how I LOVE to prove you wrong and make you look more like a troll.

Read chap 101 especially starting on page 5. Neji spun and made a circle in the ground. The rotation is a dome. Have you even seen it in games? Neji makes a full shpere! The Rotation is so powerful it damages the surface so that it is in a dome fashion.

THANK YOU HH`<3
That's unnecessary. Whatever beef you have against each other, I suggest you stop.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Didn't Kakashi say that he was the weakest out of Konoha 11?

Kakashi never dais anything like that, if anything he's always praising Neji on his skills and intelligence.

[konoha chimp]

So you're basing the rotation arguement off of video games.... ok.. and by physics your whole chapter 101 arguement doesn't make sense. It clearly just scratched away at the surface he was standing on, otherwise, we would see everytime he uses rotation the ground would crack open, even if pts Neji did it by that logic :| Basic physics?

And you're really just basing your whole argument on rotation spam :lol: seriously? we've seen that Neji cannot use rotation for long periods of time and is vulnerable after he does it, so no Rotation will not protect Neji from every single thing Kakashi throws at it him.

If I would use your logic I would say - Kakashi uses shadow clones - Neji rotates killing them all- Kakashi jumps out of nowhere with Raikiri and kills Neji.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Actually even in the manga it shows that Neji's rotation is a sphere and when he uses it it mid-air you can clearly see that it's a sphere.

Even in the most recent manga chapters it clearly shows the rotation as a sphere.

[PrinceofPeace]

So you're basing the rotation arguement off of video games.... ok..
No it was just a reference for a more clear example. By manga reference proves that it is a dome and effects the ground as well.

and by physics your whole chapter 101 arguement doesn't make sense. It clearly just scratched away at the surface he was standing on, otherwise, we would see everytime he uses rotation the ground would crack open, even if pts Neji did it by that logic :| Basic physics?
This is anime/manga. It is fiction. Physics does not always apply.
Chp. 101 pg 5
There is OBVIOUSLY ground damage. Neji made a dent in the ground.

And you're really just basing your whole argument on rotation spam :lol: seriously?
Um...Nooo I pointed out Air Palms and 64palms as well `o.o"

we've seen that Neji cannot use rotation for long periods of time and is vulnerable after he does it, so no Rotation will not protect Neji from every single thing Kakashi throws at it him.
ageed...its not like I said that or anything

If I would use your logic I would say - Kakashi uses shadow clones - Neji rotates killing them all- Kakashi jumps out of nowhere with Raikiri and kills Neji.
Good thing I did not use that logic:D

[konoha chimp]

Yeah because since when has physics ever applied to Naruto right? stupid me I must of forgot. :| clearly physics doesn't apply to any anime/manga right?

Yeah and enlighten me how does air palm affect Kakashi in anyway and how does his 64 palms work if he fights from long range which his sharingan would percieve anyway if by some miracle Neji managed to get close to Kakashi.

That's the kind of logic you have been using since the beginning of this thread so don't give me that crap, if you're going debate in favour of Neji atleast do it in the manner Sora is.

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah because since when has physics ever applied to Naruto right? stupid me I must of forgot. :| clearly physics doesn't apply to any anime/manga right?
ok........ so how does physics come into play with rotation?
How of what I have said about Neji harming the gound behent him with rotation wrong?

Yeah and enlighten me how does air palm affect Kakashi in anyway and how does his 64 palms work if he fights from long range
what ninjutsu does Kakashi have from long range?
which his sharingan would percieve anyway if by some miracle Neji managed to get close to Kakashi.
again just because kakashi can see/predict it does not mean he can dodge it
Afteall he could not dodge a kick from Zabuza

That's the kind of logic you have been using since the beginning of this thread so don't give me that crap, if you're going debate in favour of Neji atleast do it in the manner Sora is.

Did you even read post #32?
I just said he would use rotation for one possible situation and then you said that I said Neji would spam it

[konoha chimp]

Rotation cannot be a full sphere whilst underground because it would be shown evident because the ground would crack open everytime he does rotation which it does not.

This is what I mean by your logic what makes you believe that Kakashi would be dumb enough to engage in Taijutsu distance with Neji in the first place?!

As for the long range Jutsu fair enough I see your point and you may disagree with me on this for obvious reasons, But I believe out of all of his arsenal Jutsu he has kakashi must have atleast 1 long ranged Jutsu, whether we have seen it or not.

[PrinceofPeace]

Rotation cannot be a full sphere whilst underground because it would be shown evident because the ground would crack open everytime he does rotation which it does not.
why would it need to crack? the dome made a perfect part of a sphere into the ground. As you can see damage was done to the ground. Either way wether you believe it or not that rotation would do damage underground Neji can see Kakashi underground and dodge it.

This is what I mean by your logic what makes you believe that Kakashi would be dumb enough to engage in Taijutsu distance with Neji in the first place?!
so how else would Kakashi harm Neji?

As for the long range Jutsu fair enough I see your point and you may disagree with me on this for obvious reasons, But I believe out of all of his arsenal Jutsu he has kakashi must have atleast 1 long ranged Jutsu, whether we have seen it or not.
^you know what I am going to say to this
THAT IS ALL HYPE! Even if that were ture all of those ninjutsu could be close range or require prep or be too weak or too slow or take up too much chakra or Kakashi is not good at it or it is suidical or it would help Neji. We can NOT assume! Why? because the possiblities are ENDLESS

If you assume then I can and everybody will and it will cause a huge mess. For example. Neji is a genuis and will find the perfect counter to Kakashi's long ranged ninjutsu

this is in IC right so Kakashi would not start the battle off with sharigan. He only used it off the bat for an enemy he had knowledge of from his hype. But I do not like IC but I was just going to mention that

Anyway,

Kakashi would start off by revealing his sharigan
NOTE:this is a CONSTANT drain of his chakra and he can not use it as well as a TRUE Uchiha

kakashi has no long ranged ninjutsu to harm Neji so Kakashi is forced to go in close.

Genjutsu does not work cuz Neji has NO KNOWN FEARS

Kakashi can go underground...but Neji can see though solid objects and chakra so that does not help much

Kakashi can only use lightingblade 4x MAX! He can try and get in close but I have not seen him to react fast enough to dodge 64palms and land a hit

[konoha chimp]

I'm going to stop now because now matter how much you/I say I'm not changing my view. To put it simply as possible The difference between Kakashi and Neji is the difference between an elite Jonin and a Jonin.

One thing I would add is that Neji maybe a genius for his age but given by his feats and experience Kakashi is an even greater genius

I just don't get where you're going with this though, do you think Neji has absolutely no weaknesses or something? to acknowledge someone strengths in a debate you must also acknowledge their weaknesses which you haven't :| You've just made Neji out to be unbeatable with an absolute defence.

IMO Jonin like Kakashi, Gai, Kurenai and Asuma are in a completely other league to Neji due to their experience

[PrinceofPeace]

I'm going to stop now because now matter how much you/I say I'm not changing my view. To put it simply as possible The difference between Kakashi and Neji is the difference between an elite Jonin and a Jonin.
So now Neji is not elite? He could beat most jonin we have seen. And he is hyped as a genuis. So your just going to stop...ight

One thing I would add is that Neji maybe a genius for his age but given by his feats and experience Kakashi is an even greater genius
and how does that make kakashi beat Neji?

I just don't get where you're going with this though, do you think Neji has absolutely no weaknesses or something? to acknowledge someone strengths in a debate you must also acknowledge their weaknesses which you haven't :| You've just made Neji out to be unbeatable with an absolute defence.
???how so?????
Neji does not have perfect vision and its not 360
but YOU have not mentioned Kakashi's weakness as well (sharigan=exhaustion)
Why would I exagerate/talk a lot about Neji's weaknesses? He is defnetly beatable (hence his death)
idk what you are getting at

IMO Jonin like Kakashi, Gai, Kurenai and Asuma are in a completely other league to Neji due to their experience

Neji could beat Kureani and Asuma (neji breaks though genjutsu and 64 palm Asuma)

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

OK you all do know we are talking about PTS Kakashi as in before Shippuden Kakashi and not part 2 Kakshi right? the only long rang jutsu PTS Kakashi has are all water style that require a water source therefore all he really has is close range.

[Devils Lawyer]

@pop Bro serious question do you read your posts? You put Neji can break through genjutsu because he has no fear. Most of your posts is pure bs. You know what never mind I need to stop responding to this thread but you are pretty funny. You and Neji fans in general I would have thought those wooden spikes fodderizing him says differently.:lol:

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Um, you all do know that the Byakugan cannot be fooled by genjutsu therefore this shouldn't even be an argument about Neji being caught be Genjutsu right?

[Kirin Inuzuka]

@pop Bro serious question do you read your posts? You put Neji can break through genjutsu because he has no fear. Most of your posts is pure bs. You know what never mind I need to stop responding to this thread but you are pretty funny. You and Neji fans in general I would have thought those wooden spikes fodderizing him says differently.:lol:

Really? You want to go to the wooden spikes death, you mean the plot devise death of Neji that Kishi used to progress the story even though we all know that if Neji weren't protecting Naruto and Hinata he could have easily dodged?

Wow....really sweet manb:| talk about using low end feats.

[megabbaut]

@Neji having no fear... the genjutsu could just make it so that the Hyuga clan is massacred or something...like the Uchiha

[Devils Lawyer]

Really? You want to go to the wooden spikes death, you mean the plot devise death of Neji that Kishi used to progress the story even though we all know that if Neji weren't protecting Naruto and Hinata he could have easily dodged?

Wow....really sweet manb:| talk about using low end feats.

Neji has literally did next to nothing in the second part. Not really a low end. The highlight of his career is fighting kisame's clone with his team. Fast forward he is struggling with zetsu. Fast forward past that he is getting overwhelmed by the wooden stakes. Nothing in the story suggest Neji is really that powerful.

[Uchiha Sora]

Oh god. too much to read. I'll come back to this tomorrow :lol: hwk time. Friggin SAT class takes 4 hours out of my day -.-

@DL and PoP chill.

[konoha chimp]

^ Even though I'm debating against Neji i want to say that Devils Lawyer he's wrong but I find it hard to disagree with this post (Minus the wooden stakes part :lol: that was understandable)

[Vivi]

Um, you all do know that the Byakugan cannot be fooled by genjutsu therefore this shouldn't even be an argument about Neji being caught be Genjutsu right?

Not this crap again, been already explained.

the only long rang jutsu PTS Kakashi has are all water style that require a water source therefore all he really has is close range. Totally irrelevant really when Raikiri is constantly implied to be tremendously fast and doesn't even need Handseals.

[PrinceofPeace]

@Neji having no fear... the genjutsu could just make it so that the Hyuga clan is massacred or something...like the Uchiha

Yeah seeing your clan all of a sudden isn't an obvious sign of genjutsu. But I see where your coming from . But this is not a confirmed fear. After all death frees the hyuuga in a way. Plus neji can use body blow to break him out of the genjutsu. Or cause himself little pain. The genjutsu is not that strong. Neji would instantly break out with his chakra control.

Thanks for debating DL for me

Yeah Vivi
The genjutsu does not work cuz neji does not fear anything

[Vivi]

Yeah Vivi
The genjutsu does not work cuz neji does not fear anything

http://imageftw.com/uploads/20110704/universal-ryoma.gif

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Not this crap again, been already explained.

Totally irrelevant really when Raikiri is constantly implied to be tremendously fast and doesn't even need Handseals.

Oh, really and when was this explained, please explain this to me.

there is nothing irrelevant about it, regardless of it's lack of hand seals it still has to be charged before the attack is made. Kakashi has never shown himself to even be as fast as weightless lee in part one. So please tell me how exacly Kakashi lands a hit on Neji AT ALL without getting smacked by rotation or dodged and having his chakra points blocked?

[ino>sakura!]

Wow, I never made a debate thread that was this long.
*Admires his piece of work*

Lol first time for everything joon

[Vivi]

Oh, really and when was this explained, please explain this to me.

there is nothing irrelevant about it, regardless of it's lack of hand seals it still has to be charged before the attack is made. Kakashi has never shown himself to even be as fast as weightless lee in part one. So please tell me how exacly Kakashi lands a hit on Neji AT ALL without getting smacked by rotation or dodged and having his chakra points blocked?

Look back through the thread.
There was nowhere in the Manga that shows it can't be fooled by Genjutsu just Neji wankers assuming so cause they don't even understand that Byakugan see's Chakra of another person thus seeing irregularities as Genjutsu affects the Brain which is part of the Chakra Pathway system by sending ones own Chakra into it to disturb the senses of the Cerebral System.

In short:
Of course Ao saw through Genjutsu but nowhere does it say it works on one self.

Charging is fast, chapter 70 shows that as it was ready to use near instantly, just arm down, done.

You're claiming weightless Lee is faster than Kakashi just because it wasn't shown?
Not this crap again, use goddamn logic.
Jesus Christ, has the BG gone full retard?
You're starting to sound like PoP and we don't need a 2nd one of him, BG is bad enough with him.

It's not like Kakashi is shown as one of the most proficient ninja when it comes to Tricks right?


64 palms always starts with 2, you're now saying Kakashi with Sharingan can't see two measly hits that only improve in speed the more hits.

Rotation won't do any good against attacks from below and using Rotation with Byakugan is a terrible idea in general.
Or do I have to explain that to you as well?

[Vivi]

I am calm.lol.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Look back through the thread.
There was nowhere in the Manga that shows it can't be fooled by Genjutsu just Neji wankers assuming so cause they don't even understand that Byakugan see's Chakra of another person thus seeing irregularities as Genjutsu affects the Brain which is part of the Chakra Pathway system by sending ones own Chakra into it to disturb the senses of the Cerebral System.

In short:
Of course Ao saw through Genjutsu but nowhere does it say it works on one self.

Charging is fast, chapter 70 shows that as it was ready to use near instantly, just arm down, done.

You're claiming weightless Lee is faster than Kakashi just because it wasn't shown?
Not this crap again, use goddamn logic.
Jesus Christ, has the BG gone full retard?
You're starting to sound like PoP and we don't need a 2nd one of him, BG is bad enough with him.

It's not like Kakashi is shown as one of the most proficient ninja when it comes to Tricks right?


64 palms always starts with 2, you're now saying Kakashi with Sharingan can't see two measly hits that only improve in speed the more hits.

Rotation won't do any good against attacks from below and using Rotation with Byakugan is a terrible idea in general.
Or do I have to explain that to you as well?

OK first off before we even go on with this debate you need to catch yourself can calm down. I don't care what you've gone through with prince, you WILL NOT sit there and catch a snappy attitude with me over a cartoon and you sure as hell will not disrespect me and call me a retard on the DL just because I have a different opinion from you.

I didn't come into this thread being rude to you, so I expect and deserve the same courtesy, because believe me I can be just as nasty as you are if not more, but since I trying to avoid having anymore major Drama on this site I will ask you politely to tone it down.

[Devils Lawyer]

Jesus Christ, has the BG gone full retard?


The answer is yes:lol:

[Kirin Inuzuka]

OK you guys are just being rude and nasty for no good reason. Please do not provoke her because she really does have anger issues you know.

[Shisko Shi]

Hey guys this is a argument thread. But have fun. Personally don't do the retard thing please. Some take offence like I do. But just remeber to have fun. I this everyone is just taking the conversation the wrong way. I am sure everyone doesn't mean the way they sound. Please calm down a bit ok?
Or I will go Morgan Freeman on your asses.

[Uchiha Sora]

Some of these posts make me feel ashamed to be debating for neji.

I shall return. Kinda got distracted for the past two hours and haven't even started my homework. Gooooooood damn it.

[PrinceofPeace]

Look back through the thread.
There was nowhere in the Manga that shows it can't be fooled by Genjutsu just Neji wankers assuming so cause they don't even understand that Byakugan see's Chakra of another person thus seeing irregularities as Genjutsu affects the Brain which is part of the Chakra Pathway system by sending ones own Chakra into it to disturb the senses of the Cerebral System.
You really think the genjutsu would do that much? It would be easy for Neji to realize he is in genjutsu and take have the time to break out of it with his great chakra control. Plus Kakashi would have to be still to use the genjutsu.

In short:
Of course Ao saw through Genjutsu but nowhere does it say it works on one self.
even without the bkyugan it would be easy to tell on wa sin genjutsu. Afterall Sakura saw though it. And PTS Sakura is the only one it worked on.

Charging is fast, chapter 70 shows that as it was ready to use near instantly, just arm down, done.
You're claiming weightless Lee is faster than Kakashi just because it wasn't shown?
Not this crap again, use goddamn logic.
Jesus Christ, has the BG gone full retard?
You're starting to sound like PoP and we don't need a 2nd one of him, BG is bad enough with him.
Aww thanks! My Greatness tends to rub off on others:D

It's not like Kakashi is shown as one of the most proficient ninja when it comes to Tricks right?
so what trick would he use?


64 palms always starts with 2, you're now saying Kakashi with Sharingan can't see two measly hits that only improve in speed the more hits.
That is why Neji can use Air Palms or rotation as well.
Neji can keep it at mid range if needed. The sharigan seeing Air Palms would use up even more chakra from looking at it. Neji can keep his distance or worst case use 64palms ealier but I doubt that would happen

Rotation won't do any good against attacks from below and using Rotation with Byakugan is a terrible idea in general.
Or do I have to explain that to you as well?
Please

[BMC1994]

Um, you all do know that the Byakugan cannot be fooled by genjutsu therefore this shouldn't even be an argument about Neji being caught be Genjutsu right?

Chapter please.

[Jose]

Has Rotation ever defended Neji aganist chakra based attacks?

We have all seen him stop kunais and shurikens and those wierd spider arrows but has he ever stopped like a chakra based attack?

Who is to say Kakashi can't just using lightning blade and break right through his little crappy circle sphere thing. Its supposed to be at least a A-rank jutsu right?

[PrinceofPeace]

Has Rotation ever defended Neji aganist chakra based attacks?
Of course!:D
Kidimaruo's golden harden webs
obito's wood release
(And a direct close combat attack from KN0 Naruto)

We have all seen him stop kunais and shurikens and those wierd spider arrows but has he ever stopped like a chakra based attack?
The webs were chakra based attacks? They were enchanced with chakra.

Who is to say Kakashi can't just using lightning blade and break right through his little crappy circle sphere thing. Its supposed to be at least a A-rank jutsu right?
that is like saying has lightingblade broke though any chakra based attack?

But that would be too dangerous
-Neji is moving at a faster rate and its a better defence than Garra's sand. Saskue could barely break the sand at times.

But rotation is like a shileld and lighting blade is a knife that can not pierce a shield.

this is current Neji and past Kakshi so Neji will have enough chakra to fight back.

To me it would be like slicing a fan. Your hand would get hurt or chopped off. Kakashi could not hold the lighting blade and suffer though the pain. Directs attacks are useless

[Heji Oka]

I've read this thread and there seems to be some problems that need to be addressed. First this is Pts kakashi vs current Neji, that is pre-time skip meaning everything before shippuden.

Next the use of logic while I like it, it seems bias use. I have seen and been in a thread where I or someone else would try to use logic but were told that only feats shown in the manga count. However those same people will turn around and try to use logic when they are backed into a corner and have nothing else to use. Keep it fair if one person can't use it at one point and time then you can't either to try and suit your argument.

By logic because guy is Kakshi's rival it would indicated that he can either move at the same speed or react to such speed, that is true. However by the same logic since Neji is lees rival it can also be said that neji could move at that speed or react to it but the problem is only one has been somewhat proven while the other has not.

Next to say jonin can beat lower level people simply because they are jonin is not a good argument. By logic it should be true that lower ranking people lose to higher ranks but remember the attack on the leaf. where the sound five were able to keep anbu level ninja out of the thirds and oros fight with that barrier. Now if we use the jonin are better because they are higher rank then that barrier should have been brought down with no problem. However it wasn't, we even have naruto and company beating s-rank criminals who were said to be close to if not kage level. Though there were circumstances to some of these defeats it shows that rank doesn't really matter.

Next even though hype says that kakashi can use a thousand jutsu, remember that is all it is hype it hasn't been shown so you can't really use it in a argument. Yes by logic kakashi having copied over a thousand jutsu would have long range jutsu to use in a fight but as shown to kakashi's character his strategies don't ever call for a long range jutsu and the the times they do are very rare. Now as to the byakugan can or can't be fooled by genjutsu neither has been proven only that when it came to Aoi he could tell when Danzo has activated koto. Does it mean that the byakugan is resistant to genjutsu no but they can tell when one is active. However this does not help kakashi because he doesn't use genjutsu in combat. Yes he used it while fighting Zabuza and during the bell test but overall kakashi is not the genjutsu type.

Now with the sharingan can see everything so he can dodge is true and false. Yes the sharingan can see everything but it is false to say it means the person using it can dodge everything. There have been too many showings of it not working that way. Examples are when Sasuke faced lee, when Sasuke fought naruto, when danzo faced sasuke, when sasuke fought b and when obito faced off against naruto, b, kakashi and guy. Each fight has it circumstances but each fight proves that having the sharingan doesn't mean you can dodge everything.

Next to the sasuke was able to dodge naruto so that means that the sharingan can read high speed movement, this is true and false. Yes sasuke was able to predict naruto but the only increase in speed naruto had was to his legs when running, that and actual close combat speed are very different. Notice that while it was true that naruto had gotten faster his striking speed did not. He still threw punches at the same speed once he got up close the speed at which he threw them did not change. Remember striking speed and movement speed are different as shown in the sasuke vs b fight while b didn't have speed like lee or kn1 naruto his striking speed with his swords were more than enough to overwhelm sasuke's sharingan. In this fight no neji does not have great speed when it comes to movement but has incredible striking speed which could overwhelm kakashi's sharingan. Now is that to give Neji the win no it is not, because as shown smarts and knowledge which kakashi has shown to possess can also carry the day.

Finally lets keep things civil while yes we are to defend our stances to the best of our abilities there is no need to insult each others sex or state of mind. If the evidence is too overwhelming don't resort to these methods to hide the fact that you may have loss just accept it and learn from it. Accepting the fact that you may be wrong won't make you less of a person and it doesn't mean that you aren't smart only that your argument may not have been as good as the one you were debating.

That's all I wanted to say.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Why are we talking about Part II Kakashi?
Kakashi was only hospitalized when he fought Itachi but he was on cruches after the battle with Zabuza

We're talking about Part II Kakashi because that's the only time he was hospitalized because of Sharingan use.
He was never hospitalized because of the Sharingan in part I and you know it.

Which ones are you talking about Part I or II. Guy said himself and Saskue acknowledge that base Guy Part I is faster than Kakashi base part I

So now we take what people say in the manga at face value? Jesus Deidara was afraid of Kakashi when he clearly had the advantage. Deidara was in the air and had C4, Kakashi has poor control over Kamui at that point, Deidara clearly would've won. But he was afraid of Kakashi. Jesus I'm glad I came into this thread it needs a savior...

Neji can see though the clones with bkyugan. Kakashi's clones are not as good as naruto's iirc and Kakashi can not use that much clones

Kakashi doesn't need more than one clone to make a clone feint, and he only needs to Raikiri Neji one time to kill him.

Why can Neji not see underground? Neji can see though solid objects and chakra so when he looks towards the ground he would see Kakashi clearly. Plus Neji can use rotation to protect himself

What the hell are you talking about? :lol:
You do realize that the reason Neji lost to Naruto was because Naruto burrowed underground and hit him in the chin, right?

Look at chapter 104 page 15. Neji is clearly standing right there, staring at Naruto's dead clone (which he only needed one. Kakashi can create at least one clone) and then staring at the ground. In panel 7, when the ground breaks, is when he finally sees Naruto. You were saying?

he can use it about 4 times and his clones can not use it. It would be suicide to go in this close.

Not if the only thing showing is Neji's head.

Rotation...or getting out of the way and not sitting there. Naruto already surprised him underground once the same would not happen to a genuis like Neji.

How the hell is Neji going to use rotation with his entire body in the ground?
I don't know how much you know about dirt, but at a certain point, it gets pretty heavy.

Not to mention that falling back on an argument like "Oh Neji is a genius so he will get out of it."
1) They have no knowledge
2) Kakashi is also considered a "genius." He was a Jonin at the same age Neji was in the Chuunin Exams.

PoP you are totally wrong here.

[Rasen_Chidori]

Kakashi showed considerable knowledge of the Byakugan and how it works in Part 1, so he is fully aware of it's abilities and the gentle fist style.

He'd make a couple of clones, evenly spreading his chakra throughout them like Naruto did (Kakashi's chakra control was far superior to Part 1 Naruto's so he'd be able to do this easily.) and then all he has to do is wait underground using his headhunter jutsu, Neji goes after the clones and it's over. Kakashi pulls Neji into the ground then he can just cut his throat or use another jutsu to finish him off. He wouldn't even need the Sharingan.

The problem for Neji here is that all his techniques rely heavily on his vision, and deceiving an opponent's vision with diversions and clones to get in close is something Kakashi has been shown to be very very good at as he's done it several times throughout the series.

[konoha chimp]

that is like saying has lightingblade broke though any chakra based attack?
Umm do you know what lightning blade even is? I think it's safe to say that it could. however, it depends on the chakra nature of the attack, for instance it could cut through an earth style attack but not a fire style one.

But that would be too dangerous
-Neji is moving at a faster rate and its a better defence than Garra's sand. Saskue could barely break the sand at times.
^ That is complete BS, I'm sorry prince but comparing rotation to Gaara's sand.. no just no you're pulling these facts out your ass now

To me it would be like slicing a fan. Your hand would get hurt or chopped off. Kakashi could not hold the lighting blade and suffer though the pain. Directs attacks are useless
And again with the physics, that is not possible. Rotation does not work like a spinning fan, Rotation deflects attacks, it doesn't cut through them because by that logic everytime Neji used rotation on an enemy that enemy would of been cut into pieces which isn't the case. I actually think that lightning blade depending how much concentrated chakra is forced into it could cut through rotation.

I was going to leave it be but that is complete BS you complained about me using hype as an argument yet you're pulling these facts out of nowhere?

[PrinceofPeace]

We're talking about Part II Kakashi because that's the only time he was hospitalized because of Sharingan use.
He was never hospitalized because of the Sharingan in part I and you know it.
I totally agree. I never denied this. I am just saying after the fight with Zabuza Kakashi was on cruches and his body was exhausted.

So now we take what people say in the manga at face value? Jesus Deidara was afraid of Kakashi when he clearly had the advantage. Deidara was in the air and had C4, Kakashi has poor control over Kamui at that point, Deidara clearly would've won. But he was afraid of Kakashi. Jesus I'm glad I came into this thread it needs a savior...
ok.....?



Kakashi doesn't need more than one clone to make a clone feint, and he only needs to Raikiri Neji one time to kill him.
And a direct hit from Air Palms or 64combo would end Kakashi.Idk how a clone feint would work on Neji anyway



What the hell are you talking about? :lol:
You do realize that the reason Neji lost to Naruto was because Naruto burrowed underground and hit him in the chin, right?
You do realize that Neji was exhausted and his BYKUGAN WAS OFF right?

Look at chapter 104 page 15. Neji is clearly standing right there, staring at Naruto's dead clone (which he only needed one. Kakashi can create at least one clone) and then staring at the ground. In panel 7, when the ground breaks, is when he finally sees Naruto. You were saying?
I was saying that neji was not using his bykugan:lol:



Not if the only thing showing is Neji's head.
As soon as Kakashi grabs neji Neji would use body blow...or see him with the bkyugan and dodge



How the hell is Neji going to use rotation with his entire body in the ground?
How would Neji get caught with bkyugan active and body blow intercept
I don't know how much you know about dirt, but at a certain point, it gets pretty heavy.
oh really now lol

Not to mention that falling back on an argument like "Oh Neji is a genius so he will get out of it."
1) They have no knowledge
2) Kakashi is also considered a "genius." He was a Jonin at the same age Neji was in the Chuunin Exams.
I was telling Chimp about why Hype is bad. I was not serious....you did know that right?

PoP you are totally wrong here.
well you had some wrong info yourelf no offense

[Devils Lawyer]

I've read this thread and there seems to be some problems that need to be addressed. First this is Pts kakashi vs current Neji, that is pre-time skip meaning everything before shippuden.

Next the use of logic while I like it, it seems bias use. I have seen and been in a thread where I or someone else would try to use logic but were told that only feats shown in the manga count. However those same people will turn around and try to use logic when they are backed into a corner and have nothing else to use. Keep it fair if one person can't use it at one point and time then you can't either to try and suit your argument.[quote]

The individual rooting for Neji is using neither logic nor feats just plain wanking.

[QUOTE]By logic because guy is Kakshi's rival it would indicated that he can either move at the same speed or react to such speed, that is true. However by the same logic since Neji is lees rival it can also be said that neji could move at that speed or react to it but the problem is only one has been somewhat proven while the other has not.


By feats and logic Kakashi is massively faster than Neji so. Zabuza slaughtered Jounin like butter later on in the series. Kabuto trolled a Tsunade, and Shizune. Neji peaked out against the spider.

Next to say jonin can beat lower level people simply because they are jonin is not a good argument. By logic it should be true that lower ranking people lose to higher ranks but remember the attack on the leaf. where the sound five were able to keep anbu level ninja out of the thirds and oros fight with that barrier. Now if we use the jonin are better because they are higher rank then that barrier should have been brought down with no problem. However it wasn't, we even have naruto and company beating s-rank criminals who were said to be close to if not kage level. Though there were circumstances to some of these defeats it shows that rank doesn't really matter.

The sound five were not anbu level. They almost got defeated as a group by two special jounin. Jounin who are still pretty weak in jounin standards. The only one who was truly strong was kimimaro.
Next even though hype says that kakashi can use a thousand jutsu, remember that is all it is hype it hasn't been shown so you can't really use it in a argument. Yes by logic kakashi having copied over a thousand jutsu would have long range jutsu to use in a fight but as shown to kakashi's character his strategies don't ever call for a long range jutsu and the the times they do are very rare. Now as to the byakugan can or can't be fooled by genjutsu neither has been proven only that when it came to Aoi he could tell when Danzo has activated koto. Does it mean that the byakugan is resistant to genjutsu no but they can tell when one is active. However this does not help kakashi because he doesn't use genjutsu in combat. Yes he used it while fighting Zabuza and during the bell test but overall kakashi is not the genjutsu type.
The sharigan automatically turns him into a genjutsu type. So the point of this paragragh is. Considering Neji countering it or not still results in him dying.


Now with the sharingan can see everything so he can dodge is true and false. Yes the sharingan can see everything but it is false to say it means the person using it can dodge everything. There have been too many showings of it not working that way. Examples are when Sasuke faced lee, when Sasuke fought naruto, when danzo faced sasuke, when sasuke fought b and when obito faced off against naruto, b, kakashi and guy. Each fight has it circumstances but each fight proves that having the sharingan doesn't mean you can dodge everything.

Neji neither has speed or any tactics beside direct confrontation. That means he doesn't have the requirements to fight a sharigan user.

Next to the sasuke was able to dodge naruto so that means that the sharingan can read high speed movement, this is true and false. Yes sasuke was able to predict naruto but the only increase in speed naruto had was to his legs when running, that and actual close combat speed are very different. Notice that while it was true that naruto had gotten faster his striking speed did not. He still threw punches at the same speed once he got up close the speed at which he threw them did not change. Remember striking speed and movement speed are different as shown in the sasuke vs b fight while b didn't have speed like lee or kn1 naruto his striking speed with his swords were more than enough to overwhelm sasuke's sharingan. In this fight no neji does not have great speed when it comes to movement but has incredible striking speed which could overwhelm kakashi's sharingan. Now is that to give Neji the win no it is not, because as shown smarts and knowledge which kakashi has shown to possess can also carry the day.


Bro your example was what the fight looked like in Sasuke eyes. In his eyes Naruto was moving slow. Hence why nothing connected. Also they were in close combat so I don't see how you could even come up with a theory like that. Also every example you named was off. Bee is as fast as his brother and bm Naruto so wrong. Lee is not even a known speedster anymore. So pointless bringing up a weak sharigan antics. Neji doesn't even have great striking speed. His striking speed was only superior to the opponents he faced at the time.

.Finally lets keep things civil while yes we are to defend our stances to the best of our abilities there is no need to insult each others sex or state of mind. If the evidence is too overwhelming don't resort to these methods to hide the fact that you may have loss just accept it and learn from it. Accepting the fact that you may be wrong won't make you less of a person and it doesn't mean that you aren't smart only that your argument may not have been as good as the one you were debatin

Calling dumbasses a dumbass is not an insult. Stay in the kiddy pool if aggressive debating offends you.:lol:
That's all I wanted to say.
Are you sure? I hope so.

[PrinceofPeace]

it is safe to say that rotation could stop Lightinblade. Afterall Rotation has stopped long to close range attacks. PTS Lighting blade only cut though people iirc. Lighting blade's feats do not match up to Rotation.

Lol I got my info from TenTen

it all depends who puts in more chakra but again Rotation has more feats. And like a fan if you throw something at it the object will bounce off

^@KC

[konoha chimp]

Yeah but you didn't say that Kakashi's hand would bounce off you sad it would get chopped off?
Hmm it's hard to judge the lightning blade vs Rotation argument because it can be argued either way.
I would say lightning blade would win because it is a pure chakra concentrated lightning attack, so due to the intensity of chakra I think that Lightning blade would be able to cut through rotation, that is if Kakashi was willing to do that anyway

[Vivi]

Has Rotation ever defended Neji aganist chakra based attacks?
Of course!:D
Kidimaruo's golden harden webs
obito's wood release
(And a direct close combat attack from KN0 Naruto)And it's official, PoP can't even see the difference between Physical and Chakra attacks.

[WishfulFairie]

Neji can't rotate forever. There are points where he will have to stop just to rotate again. Kakashi could use a shadow clone as a decoy and then get Neji when he's vulnerable and open.

That's my little response to this whole subject matter.
Bye.

[321zigzag3]

Is this PReskip Neji or Post Skip Neji?

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah but you didn't say that Kakashi's hand would bounce off you sad it would get chopped off?
Hmm it's hard to judge the lightning blade vs Rotation argument because it can be argued either way.
I would say lightning blade would win because it is a pure chakra concentrated lightning attack, so due to the intensity of chakra I think that Lightning blade would be able to cut through rotation, that is if Kakashi was willing to do that anyway

I thought you stopped?

PTS kakashi lighting blade could not even bisect Haku...so how do you come to this conclusion?

Idc what you prefer but Rotation has better feats than LightingBlade

So what? kakashi would run at a dome of chakra and pierce it?? Idk how that would even work? Are you saying the blade would hit Neji as well or just stop the rotation compelety?

You are not giving enough evidence to prove your point

@Viv
-guess notb~(

TBH I was EXTEREMLY tired with that post i responded to Jose. I was working on a Power Point as well. My B but my point still stands Rotation has better feats than lighting blade

This is CURRENT Neji

[Devils Lawyer]

Is this PReskip Neji or Post Skip Neji?

Post skip

[321zigzag3]

Post Skip Neji's notable feats.

Getting caught by Kisame's Water Prison
Breaking out Water Prison
Killing Zetsu clones
Supposedly surpassing Hiashi (not sure)
Dying as a sacrifice to protect Naruto.

Anything else?

Supposedly he is a solid Jounin level.

[Devils Lawyer]

Nope that is Neji and people wondered why he died. Also he didn't surpass Hiashi and his jounin status is unknown. He was just referenced as jounin. Every soldier on that field in the war is in that range so not impressive.

[PrinceofPeace]

Neji can't rotate forever.
nobody said he would but I agree
There are points where he will have to stop just to rotate again.
agreed
Kakashi could use a shadow clone as a decoy and then get Neji when he's vulnerable and open.
Even rotating neji has 360 vision so he would see the other enemy Plus even PTS Neji reacted to attacks after rotating (it was not the best but still)

That's my little response to this whole subject matter.
Bye.

Bye bye Wish `<3 ya

[konoha chimp]

I thought you stopped?

*Evil laughs* you would like that wouldn' you ;)

PTS kakashi lighting blade could not even bisect Haku...so how do you come to this conclusion?
That is because he wasn't even aiming for Haku nevermind bisecting him. Though it's worth noting that he managed to cut through his body with ease.

Idc what you prefer but Rotation has better feats than LightingBlade
^ Which is because Neji is forced to use it all the time and even then his feats aren't that spectacular anyway :lol:

So what? kakashi would run at a dome of chakra and pierce it?? Idk how that would even work? Are you saying the blade would hit Neji as well or just stop the rotation compelety?
I cant say it's impossible given that it has never/will never happen, Idk how it would work either but it's pointless debating it because we'll never know

You are not giving enough evidence to prove your point
Prince.. you're not exactly giving a lot evidence you know, a lot of your debate is made up of assumptions with false physics which don't even make sense


*And we continue*

[PrinceofPeace]

Naw I knew you could not stay away. That is why I did not relpy to your PM

Why does Neji have to use it all the time? And what PTS lighting blade feats match up to Rotation?

your saying lightinblade would cut though rotation right? Can you explain please? idk how it would cut though when Neji is always spinning and rotation has never been beat

Fale physics I agree I guess since idk what you are saying. But I am not assuming. I gave you rotation feats and you gave me no lighting blade feats. I even told you why to not assume and why is it bad. You even said i was assuming and I told you why I was not assumign. So again I ask what am I assuming

[konoha chimp]

Oh and btw Prince you just contradicted yourself, before when we discussed Neji's weaknesses you said he Didn't have 360* vision yet you just said he did? so what do you think it is?

[PrinceofPeace]

er mer gerd realy!>!>!

Neji does not have a compelte 360 degree of vision. I just rounded it. It's not like Kakashi knows about that weakenss or that Kakashi can use it to make a difference or to his advantage. The blind spot is too small and Neji's constant movements make it as if it is 360 degrees

[WishfulFairie]

Neji has 360 vision when he's being attacked and about to lose.
#PrinceLogic
:lol:

EDIT
Even rotating neji has 360 vision so he would see the other enemy Plus even PTS Neji reacted to attacks after rotating (it was not the best but still)
YOU told me this

[PrinceofPeace]

oh come on. You know he bassically has 360 degrees. Idk what exact measurmeant he has in vision though

[Vivi]

I need some music to debate properly.

Objection!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeb-E5cafv4

Been a while since I did this but let's do this.

I give it to Nejis side that the pre timeskip feats of Kakashi aren't that astonishing seeing that the best he has to offer is from the post timeskip, yet, Neji is dealing with a guy who has several more Jutsu than kakashi.

Let's put them in a list shall we?
Kakashi -
Gates
Hell Viewing
Doton: Decapitation
Doton: Mole Technique
Raikiri
Multi Shadow Clones
Summonings
Summon + Doton

Along with the Sharingan.

Neji:
Gentle Fist
64 Palms
Rotation
Empty Palm
One Blow Body but this one is really irrelevant here as Kakashi would pretty much need to hug Neji to use it.

With Byakugan

On paper, Neji seems to have a counter to everything as Kakashi pretty much needs to get close but the deal with Kakashi is that he has something that Neji lacks tremendously.
Years and years of experience.

Of course Kakashi Pre timeskip hasn't got that much to go for, yet he is far more versatile and far more experience.
That's what the Neji side cannot acknowledge, while featwise Kakashi seems to be behind it's that he is one of the most tricky guys in the Manga, yet here I am to believe that Kakashi who is a Genius just like Neji but has countless more experience and a much more versatile Arsenal cannot do anything?

It's just like the Neji side said, Kakashi needs to get close yet that is the problem here for Neji.
I point to Hakus fate of Raikiris devastation.

Thing is, it's purely ignorant of the Neji side to even consider that Neji can win this fight without being struck or hit once against a guy who specializes in tricks and strategies.

Then there is the deal with blocking Kakashi's Chakra points, Neji side seems to absolutely forget about Sharingans skill to see movements.
Of course, speed matters, but here comes in the factor again of Kakashis experience.
Neji side seems to believe Kakashi is just gonna waltz into 64 palms and Rotation which isn't going to happen especially not with Sharingan.

And as I said, even IF, 64 Palms always starts off with 2 hits that increase in speed,Gentle fist is fast yet it only gets faster the more hits, that's what the Neji side don't get, it starts slow turning fast.
There is the factor of Raikiri as well, it's so fast it causes the user to have a tunnel vision which is more than enough evidence for it's speed.


At any rate, if we go by ignorance and say feats are all that matters of course Neji wins, if we use our Logic, it's obvious Kakashi should win due to the likes of Experience and Trickery in which both he excels.

And I'm out of juice.

[WishfulFairie]

Make up your mind Prince!!!
You can't keep flipflopping


All Hail Queen Vivi

[konoha chimp]

You assumed that Gaara's sand was inferior to Neji's rotation, you immediately assumed that Lightning blade loses to rotation, You assumed rotation was a full sphere (which it can be just not when on equal ground) and now you're assuming that the time gap in Neji's defence is too quick for Kakashi.

And I believe Kakashi would know about that weakness due to his analytic skills (hype) but also due to the fact that as stated before Kakashi has good knowledge on the Byakuugan and the abilities of the Hyuuga.

I don't get that aswell, 'Make it as if it is 360*' what does that even mean? that just tells me it's not and you're making it out to be 360* when we both know for a fact it isn't because you haven't used evidence to back up this point, or several points for that matter, though I do respect the some of the knowledge you have shown to hold this debate together.

THANK YOU VIVI that is what I have been trying to say this entire time :lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

That's what the Neji side cannot acknowledge, while featwise Kakashi seems to be behind it's that he is one of the most tricky guys in the Manga, yet here I am to believe that Kakashi who is a Genius just like Neji but has countless more experience and a much more versatile Arsenal cannot do anything?
So how does Kakashi use that for the win? What's his plan. I recognize Kakashi's skill and hype but how does he use it.

It's just like the Neji side said, Kakashi needs to get close yet that is the problem here for Neji.
I point to Hakus fate of Raikiris devastation.
Haku was in a weakend state and had to take a hit. Plus he is not as good in taijutsu

Thing is, it's purely ignorant of the Neji side to even consider that Neji can win this fight without being struck or hit once against a guy who specializes in tricks and strategies.
Neither will come out unscathed. But Even PTS Neji surivied a lot of devastating blows and still kept fighting

Then there is the deal with blocking Kakashi's Chakra points, Neji side seems to absolutely forget about Sharingans skill to see movements.
Of course, speed matters, but here comes in the factor again of Kakashis experience.
Neji side seems to believe Kakashi is just gonna waltz into 64 palms and Rotation which isn't going to happen especially not with Sharingan.
I agree with the 64palms but Kakashi is not as good with he sharigan. It is a constant drain on his chakra and energy. Even stalling could waste chakra on Kakashi's side. Kakashi could not even anticiapate well. Zabuza was able to kick Kakashi before kakashi could react well enough. Even kabuto got past Kakashi.

And as I said, even IF, 64 Palms always starts off with 2 hits that increase in speed,Gentle fist is fast yet it only gets faster the more hits, that's what the Neji side don't get, it starts slow turning fast.
There is the factor of Raikiri as well, it's so fast it causes the user to have a tunnel vision which is more than enough evidence for it's speed.
Nice point! But fighting up close is still to dangerous with Gentle fist , Rotation, and Air Palms


At any rate, if we go by ignorance and say feats are all that matters of course Neji wins, if we use our Logic, it's obvious Kakashi should win due to the likes of Experience and Trickery in which both he excels.
...ah the thin line between feats and hype/logic. But with no knowledge I do not see how Kakashi would find out a weakness to the bkyugan. Kidomaru was the master at that and he saw though every defense quickly

And I'm out of juice.


Kakashi -
Gates
Can only open one gate but it has never been seen in battle.
Hell Viewing
Neji has no known fear so the genjutsu is usless. Plus Neji has great chakra control and it’s a 1v1 fight. It is a lower level Genjutsu and it is obvious that the user is in genjutsu. Kakashi has to stand still to use the genjutsu so Neji has time to break out.
Doton: Decapitation
Doton: Mole Technique
^Useless. With the bykugan Neji can see kakashi clearly hinding undgerround. One touch of when Kakashi tries to pull him down neji uses body blow…or rotation
Raikiri
Only chance and the riskiest move for Kakashi
Multi Shadow Clones
Dealt with like how Neji dealt with kaashi’s clones. The clones have shown little feats anyway.
Summonings Summon + Doton
Are spotted with bkuugan and are dodge are dealt with by Air Palms or any of Neji’s jutsu
Along with the Sharingan.
Which takes a great toll on his body. IC Kakahsi would not use it off the bat plus Kakashi is not a TRUE Uchiha so he can not use it as well.

One Blow Body but this one is really irrelevant here as Kakashi would pretty much need to hug Neji to use it.
Or when Kakashi grabs him to pull him down it would cause damage
That's what the Neji side cannot acknowledge, while featwise Kakashi seems to be behind it's that he is one of the most tricky guys in the Manga, yet here I am to believe that Kakashi who is a Genius just like Neji but has countless more experience and a much more versatile Arsenal cannot do anything?
Experience does not guarantee a win. Lee and TenTen had the most experience as ninja yet they still got beat. Along with other ninjas. experience does not guaranee a win. Aterall Hiruzen could not be Oro. There is more than just Experience

[Devils Lawyer]

Kidomaru says hi to the 360 comment.

[PrinceofPeace]

You assumed that Gaara's sand was inferior to Neji's rotation,
Even TenTen stated that the defensive style that Neji's rotation was better. But this is irrelevant. I am not assuming because I got it from TenTen
you immediately assumed that Lightning blade loses to rotation, You assumed rotation was a full sphere (which it can be just not when on equal ground)
I gave evidence while you gave none. I already explained how rotation is superior while you can not even tell me how lighting blade is supeiror
and now you're assuming that the time gap in Neji's defence is too quick for Kakashi.
you have not proved otherwise. I am not assuming taht Kkashi does not know the weakness of the bykugan and idk how he would find out and use it.

And I believe Kakashi would know about that weakness due to his analytic skills (hype) but also due to the fact that as stated before Kakashi has good knowledge on the Byakuugan and the abilities of the Hyuuga.
^SEE THAT IS ASSUMIN!!!!
YOU ASSUME just because that Kakashi has knoweldge of the bkyugan that Kakashi knows the weakness. The bykugan weakness is a secret. Kidomaru is the only KNOWN person to realize the secret. Please tell me HOW Kakashi would find out instead of depending on hype

I don't get that aswell, 'Make it as if it is 360*' what does that even mean? that just tells me it's not and you're making it out to be 360* when we both know for a fact it isn't because you haven't used evidence to back up this point, or several points for that matter, though I do respect the some of the knowledge you have shown to hold this debate together.

Official verdict: Neji does not have a PERFECT 360 degree vision

Byakugan gives the user a near 360

[Vivi]

messed up hold on

http://th202.photobucket.com/albums/aa185/blazingvirtuosity/th_godot.gif
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061016144627/uncyclopedia/images/e/e5/Godot_drink.gif

[PrinceofPeace]

I can't reply to all that atm. I am in class. i can only do little stuff at a time. HOLD ON

[Vivi]

^SEE THAT IS ASSUMIN!!!!
YOU ASSUME just because that Kakashi has knoweldge of the bkyugan that Kakashi knows the weakness. The bykugan weakness is a secret. Kidomaru is the only KNOWN person to realize the secret. Please tell me HOW Kakashi would find out instead of depending on hype

Kakashi is one of the sharpest minds in the manga along with having been a former ANBU who are all about secrecy, interrogation, assasination, spying.

While I'm saying it's possible he may know I'm not saying he does but that it's more than just a mere possibility that he can find out during battle.

[Vivi]

I can't reply to all that atm. I am in class. i can only do little stuff at a time. HOLD ON

Then focus on Class and reply when you're home, school is more important than being on a forum to discuss whether Neji loses or Kakashi wins.

http://www.court-records.net/animation/armando-confident(a).gif

[Heji Oka]

[QUOTE=Heji Oka;6488532]I've read this thread and there seems to be some problems that need to be addressed. First this is Pts kakashi vs current Neji, that is pre-time skip meaning everything before shippuden.

Next the use of logic while I like it, it seems bias use. I have seen and been in a thread where I or someone else would try to use logic but were told that only feats shown in the manga count. However those same people will turn around and try to use logic when they are backed into a corner and have nothing else to use. Keep it fair if one person can't use it at one point and time then you can't either to try and suit your argument.[quote]

The individual rooting for Neji is using neither logic nor feats just plain wanking.



By feats and logic Kakashi is massively faster than Neji so. Zabuza slaughtered Jounin like butter later on in the series. Kabuto trolled a Tsunade, and Shizune. Neji peaked out against the spider.


The sound five were not anbu level. They almost got defeated as a group by two special jounin. Jounin who are still pretty weak in jounin standards. The only one who was truly strong was kimimaro.

The sharigan automatically turns him into a genjutsu type. So the point of this paragragh is. Considering Neji countering it or not still results in him dying.




Neji neither has speed or any tactics beside direct confrontation. That means he doesn't have the requirements to fight a sharigan user.



Bro your example was what the fight looked like in Sasuke eyes. In his eyes Naruto was moving slow. Hence why nothing connected. Also they were in close combat so I don't see how you could even come up with a theory like that. Also every example you named was off. Bee is as fast as his brother and bm Naruto so wrong. Lee is not even a known speedster anymore. So pointless bringing up a weak sharigan antics. Neji doesn't even have great striking speed. His striking speed was only superior to the opponents he faced at the time.


Calling dumbasses a dumbass is not an insult. Stay in the kiddy pool if aggressive debating offends you.:lol:

Are you sure? I hope so.

Once again this logic talk is a monster, if it is not ok to use logic in certain situations against you then don't use it yourself. Yes by logic he should be faster especially considering he is guys rival but the problem is that it is not proven, meaning it isn't something you have seen. Zabuza wasn't proven to be a fast ninja only that thanks to his silent kill that he could kill targets who weren't moving or confused without making a sound so they wouldn't know hes coming add his hidden mist and it makes it nearly impossible to counter. Impressive yes but nothing to do with speed.

No they weren't anbu level which is my point, ninja who weren't anbu level were able to stop anbu. while yes they had a harder time against those others lets take in all the factors as well they were on a time schedule to get sasuke to Oro to switch bodies which means they didn't have alot of time on their side.

No the sharingan doesn't make you an automatic genjutsu type. Yes you may know of genjutsu and can use it but notice how in his fights kakashi doesn't use genjutsu meaning this isn't something he would fall back on. Even sasuke didn't use genjutsu until he got MS so saying that having the sharingan makes you a genjutsu user is inaccurate.

So you say but the thing is with nejis striking speed he could face off against a sharingan user. Next Kakashi has never shown the ability to use the sharingan to predict a persons movement to where he can dodge. Hes shown that he can copy jutsu but never showed he ability to use it to dodge so that is skeptical.

No part of the fight was shown in sasukes eyes but once again narutos striking speed had not increased. Next top say b is as fast as his brother is inaccurate because his brother was regarded as the fastest after minato not that he and b were the fastest after minato. B's striking speed is incredible but the speed at which he can get from one point to another does not increase until he uses his bijuu chakra. Next I didn't just use low sharingan feats but even sasuke vs b, danzo vs sasuke and naruto and company vs obito to illustrate that having the sharingan doesn't mean you can dodge everything.

Finally an insult is an insult, it doesn't offend me because such child like behavior only shows where a person is maturity wise. Calling it aggressive debating doesn't excuse it, do you see them calling each other dumbasses on television in official debates no you do not so don't try to excuse the verbal attacks on others by giving what your doing some bs name. It doesn't help you at all, and by the way you are acting and your attitude when confronted with facts it says one of two things about you. One that you may excel in everything in the real world and it makes you feel you are better than anyone else so you don't have to regard their feelings. or two that you are actually at the bottom of the barrel in your life and the only way you can feel good about yourself is coming online and verbally attacking others since you are too scared to do it in real life to those taunting and bullying you. Either way I don't care since your behavior already says it all kid, and no I don't call you kid in reference to your age but as to how you conduct yourself when placed against opposition. To that end i am sorry about lying when I said I was done but as far as my conversation here with you is concerned we are done.`:)

[BMC1994]

it is safe to say that rotation could stop Lightinblade. Afterall Rotation has stopped long to close range attacks. PTS Lighting blade only cut though people iirc. Lighting blade's feats do not match up to Rotation

It really isnt as we have never seen it clash with something similiar.

And it's official, PoP can't even see the difference between Physical and Chakra attacks.

To be fair the things he mentioned were strenghtened by chakra. Not that it helps his case.


PTS kakashi lighting blade could not even bisect Haku...so how do you come to this conclusion?


Raikiri/Chidori is an piercing attack meaning it drills holes into people (haku,kakazu, rin, deidara, haku ....again) its not meant for straight up bisecting people. Idk why this was brought up in the first place.


Neji does not have a compelte 360 degree of vision. I just rounded it. It's not like Kakashi knows about that weakenss or that Kakashi can use it to make a difference or to his advantage. The blind spot is too small and Neji's constant movements make it as if it is 360 degrees

If you would be blind in one spot spinning around wouldnt make that blindspot go away. Same goes for neji.


Anyway your entire case rests on rotation vs Raikiri. But neji wont be rotating while trying to break out of an genjutsu. Which also gives kakashi an opening to land his raikiri into neji's heart.

Genjutsu destroys your one and only point here. Regardless of it being d-rank or z-rank neji will still need to break out of it and that will give kakashi the oppertunity to land raikiri.

Also take your time replying it makes your posts more thought out and school would have the priority here :lol:

@Vivi

Ace attorneys music makes debating much more bad ass. *read your post while listening*

@heji (just noticed your post)

We are just talking pts kakashi here which has used genjutsu in all of his fights which were not against fodder its safe to say that pts kakashi would fall under a 'genjutsu' type.

Would agree with you if it was current kakashi who hasnt shown to use it that much but pts kakashi was alot more genjutsu happy then the current version.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

it is safe to say that rotation could stop Lightinblade. Afterall Rotation has stopped long to close range attacks. PTS Lighting blade only cut though people iirc. Lighting blade's feats do not match up to Rotation.

that's a load of idiotic fanwank you can go ahead and prove that Neiji wont get horribly gored by the chidori much less horribly blitz

]Lol I got my info from TenTen
........

it all depends who puts in more chakra but again Rotation has more feats. And like a fan if you throw something at it the object will bounce off

^@KC

Rotation has feats to suggest it's going to stop Kakashi? Based on?

[PrinceofPeace]

@bmc

-wELL All we have seen is Lightinblade cut though human skin..and it did not even bisect haku..I am just saying that Rotation has shown to stood up to more things.

-Rotation is best at deflecting close combat. And the size can vary to the users will. So A rotating shield or chakra is not going to break to a sharp direct attack...at least not wtihout Kakashi taking damage

-Yeah...but kakashi has MORE of a blind spot

-What fear does Neji have? Also the genjutsu is obvious and with Neji's chakra control feats it would be easy to break out of it. Worst case Neji can cause himself pain. And Neji should be able to rotate. Under the genjutsu his movements are not restricted.Plus Kakashi has to stay still while using the genjutsu

[Devils Lawyer]

[QUOTE=Devils Lawyer;6488663][QUOTE=Heji Oka;6488532]I've read this thread and there seems to be some problems that need to be addressed. First this is Pts kakashi vs current Neji, that is pre-time skip meaning everything before shippuden.

Nobody said otherwise. But he doesn't need feats beyond part 1. Also prett sure nobody mentioned feats for kakashi beyond part 1.

Next the use of logic while I like it, it seems bias use. I have seen and been in a thread where I or someone else would try to use logic but were told that only feats shown in the manga count. However those same people will turn around and try to use logic when they are backed into a corner and have nothing else to use. Keep it fair if one person can't use it at one point and time then you can't either to try and suit your argument.


It's not bias it is called using your brain. It would seem bias to those who can't comprehend the difference. Also no one has listed anything for Kakashi that is not fact. Fact the sharigan slow down enemy movements. Fact kakashi was one of the most skilled characters in the series even in part 1. Fact the story separates the skill level between the ninja. Few exceptions exist to this rule Neji is not one of them.
Once again this logic talk is a monster, if it is not ok to use logic in certain situations against you then don't use it yourself. Yes by logic he should be faster especially considering he is guys rival but the problem is that it is not proven, meaning it isn't something you have seen. Zabuza wasn't proven to be a fast ninja only that thanks to his silent kill that he could kill targets who weren't moving or confused without making a sound so they wouldn't know hes coming add his hidden mist and it makes it nearly impossible to counter. Impressive yes but nothing to do with speed.

Zabuza was a beast he slaughtered a congreation of people with a knife in his mouth. He matched Kakashi speed when he was revived as edo. A much stronger and faster Kakashi. He was slaughtering jounin in the war. Who by default would be more skilled than most of the k11 in part 1. These are all feats and descriptions rooted in the story.

No they weren't anbu level which is my point, ninja who weren't anbu level were able to stop anbu. while yes they had a harder time against those others lets take in all the factors as well they were on a time schedule to get sasuke to Oro to switch bodies which means they didn't have alot of time on their side.

They had a jutsu that was unknown that was particualy powerful when set up. Yes that is fact together they were pretty powerful. But indivdualy they are nothing. Naruto completed the rasengan in part 1 one of the most powerful jutsu in the series. His abilities were still sub par.

No the sharingan doesn't make you an automatic genjutsu type. Yes you may know of genjutsu and can use it but notice how in his fights kakashi doesn't use genjutsu meaning this isn't something he would fall back on. Even sasuke didn't use genjutsu until he got MS so saying that having the sharingan makes you a genjutsu user is inaccurate.

The point is if given the chance he can perform the genjutsu. Whether he uses it or not in a fight is not the point. The fact is it is one his abilities making him superior to Neji. Also Sasuke had a genjutsu fight against Itachi pre ms, he casually entered Naruto's mind pre ms, he used genjutsu on manda pre ms. So pretty wrong on Sasuke not using genjustu.
So you say but the thing is with nejis striking speed he could face off against a sharingan user. Next Kakashi has never shown the ability to use the sharingan to predict a persons movement to where he can dodge. Hes shown that he can copy jutsu but never showed he ability to use it to dodge so that is skeptical.

No he couldn't the sharigan was capable of capturing the highspeed hand movements of Zabuza hand seals to the point Kakashi could copy. The sharigan slowed Naruto's high speed movements into a crawl.You whole arguements is funny considering the Sasuke was getting his ass handed to him pre sharigan upgraded in close combat. That is not logic bro that is you misinterpreting a scene.

No part of the fight was shown in sasukes eyes but once again narutos striking speed had not increased. Next top say b is as fast as his brother is inaccurate because his brother was regarded as the fastest after minato not that he and b were the fastest after minato. B's striking speed is incredible but the speed at which he can get from one point to another does not increase until he uses his bijuu chakra. Next I didn't just use low sharingan feats but even sasuke vs b, danzo vs sasuke and naruto and company vs obito to illustrate that having the sharingan doesn't mean you can dodge everything.

Yeah no Sasuke was getting murdered by Naruto's speed pre upgrade. Never seen someone try to argue against one of the most non debatable scenes in the manga. It slows. everything down. You would be a massively fast character or a sharigan user to even counter. This is too stupid to debate anymore sorry to say.:lol:

Finally an insult is an insult, it doesn't offend me because such child like behavior only shows where a person is maturity wise. Calling it aggressive debating doesn't excuse it, do you see them calling each other dumbasses on television in official debates no you do not so don't try to excuse the verbal attacks on others by giving what your doing some bs name. It doesn't help you at all, and by the way you are acting and your attitude when confronted with facts it says one of two things about you. One that you may excel in everything in the real world and it makes you feel you are better than anyone else so you don't have to regard their feelings. or two that you are actually at the bottom of the barrel in your life and the only way you can feel good about yourself is coming online and verbally attacking others since you are too scared to do it in real life to those taunting and bullying you. Either way I don't care since your behavior already says it all kid, and no I don't call you kid in reference to your age but as to how you conduct yourself when placed against opposition. To that end i am sorry about lying when I said I was done but as far as my conversation here with you is concerned we are done.`:)

Sorry let me welcome to the internet where the majority doesn't give a fugg about how you feel about language and behavior. You say it is immature but alas this is how humans in general act. Not just children. That little tid bit is always funny when people post this. Maturity is in the eye of the beholder. So you can call me kid that doesn't bother me at all. I am comfortable with me. I accept me. It amuses me when individuals try to preach and judge it shows this is usually the only place that people will even listen to there opinion. Hence why there are always so many rants online. The verdict usually means nobody cares what you have to say no matter the location. Tells you a lot about a person. Anyways you post on trying to get that self righteous point across. As for me I will continue to do me. That is all anyone can ask of us.:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

Neji surived a lot of letal blows. He was even able to stay consciencous after fighting in the war.
Not to mention Kidomaru's attacks

Kakashi had bad stamina in Part 1. Using his sharigan for a long time would cost him. Worst Case: Neji can not dodge LightingBlade in time so he rotates to get out of a lethal blow range. Neji would then grab Kakashi's arms and give him an up close Air Palms

CHp 13 pg 4.
Kakashi could react to dodging zabuza's sword but not a direct attack with a kick

[BMC1994]

Chidori is not meant to bisect people just as a blade cannot smah people and a hammer cannot slice people.

The size never varied acoording to the users will. Thats only in the videogames (which you cant use here).

Getting his **** cut off. Not having displayed fear does not mean it does not exist. Who cares kakashi also has the genjutsu he used against zabuza. The point is the genjutsu is only to create an opening. While is neji (is trying) to break out he gets raikiri'd to the chest. And no he cant rotate and dispell genjutsu at the same time. Not to mention most genjutsu have some kind of stunning or paralyzing effect even if only temporary.

By the time neji breaks out he will have a raikiri running through his chest.

Edit: Are you seriously suggesting neji would survive an raikiri through the heart?

He rotates to get out of lethal blow range? Since when did neji turn into a ballerina?

And then somehow hes still close enough to grab his arms?

[Uchiha Sora]

God I'm gone one day an we get 3 more pages of straight up walls. I don't even want to read this

[BMC1994]

God I'm gone one day an we get 3 more pages of straight up walls. I don't even want to read this

I know how it feels

[PrinceofPeace]

Chidori is not meant to bisect people just as a blade cannot smah people and a hammer cannot slice people.
right. But how would it cut though a rotating wall of chakra? It's not like it could pierce rasengan.

The size never varied acoording to the users will. Thats only in the videogames (which you cant use here).
I thought Neji expanded it before his death but it was an explosion not rotation

Getting his **** cut off. Not having displayed fear does not mean it does not exist. Who cares kakashi also has the genjutsu he used against zabuza. The point is the genjutsu is only to create an opening. While is neji (is trying) to break out he gets raikiri'd to the chest. And no he cant rotate and dispell genjutsu at the same time. Not to mention most genjutsu have some kind of stunning or paralyzing effect even if only temporary.
Key word Most! Sakura's movements were not disrupted. And Neji has time to break out due to Kakashi having to stand still to cast it. With Neji's qualities getting out of the genjutsu would not be hard. Neji can look at himself and see his chakra is disturbed.

By the time neji breaks out he will have a raikiri running through his chest.
PTS Neji reacted to KN0 Naruto before he striked. Plus Kakashi would be standing still to use genjutsu which gives Neji time to strike. Neji died! His fear of having parts of his body cut off is nothing especially being pierced by wood style and golden web

Edit: Are you seriously suggesting neji would survive an raikiri through the heart?
NO I did not say that . I Said he would rotate to dodge lethal areas and that Neji has surivied a lot

He rotates to get out of lethal blow range? Since when did neji turn into a ballerina?
lol no

And then somehow hes still close enough to grab his arms?
with direct contact from lightinblade yeah...but I still do nt see how Kakashi would land the hit.

Air Palms would be the best way for Neji to stay on the offensive while keeping distance

[Kirin Inuzuka]

My thing is that it's a cartoon people. There is no need for insults and if you make any excuse for why it's alright for you to do it over something so small then you're just sad. Now that being said I'm not trying to insult anyone, but saying that "this is what the majority" of any population does and using that as an excuse to do this just shows that you're little more than a weak minded follower.

My thing is that when I come into a debate I'm polite and I treat people with respect, I don't say anything to anyone that wouldn't be willing to say to them if we met face to face and with all the insults being thrown around I know less than half of you would actually be willing to say these things to anyone's face, so you shouldn't be cowardly enough to say it from behind a computer screen, you don't know who these people are or what they can do. You could be talking to a professional hacker that could hack your computer and ruin your life or track you from you computer and find out where you live or hang and then come to kill you, because there are really people like that you will take it that far. So please treat people with the same respect they show you, if they don't insult you then don't insult them. It's not a manner of kiddy pool, it's called manners and common decency.

Thank you for reading and now I am off.

[konoha chimp]

^ .... I don't see anyone arguing or being disrespectful? I've probably been the most disrespectful person on this thread and even then I've remain civil I think?
I respect Princes opinion, just because we're disagreeing with him doesn't mean we're not being polite or disrespectful?

[Kirin Inuzuka]

I wasn't talking about you and I'm not going to call any people out by name because they know who they are. And it's not just this thread that it happens on, calling people retards, cursing them out or using words that is used to insult a persons sexuality should not be used, but they are and have been.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

...okay POP seriously

enough color coded posting multiple quote properly

[konoha chimp]

I wasn't talking about you and I'm not going to call any people out by name because they know who they are. And it's not just this thread that it happens on, calling people retards, cursing them out or using words that is used to insult a persons sexuality should not be used, but they are and have been.

Oh sorry I thought you was hinting at me :lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

Idk how iwd

[Jose]

PoP are you comparing Rotation to Rasengan?

Rotation is basically a circle of chakra around the user to deflect weapons.

Rasengan is a spiralling sphere of pure chakra which is a A-rank jutsu.

Chidori is pure lightning chakra in the users hand also a A-rank.

When clashed they are pretty even and sense its chakra vs chakra the jutsu's either cancel each other out or one over powers the other. PTS Sasuke was able to pierce Gaara sand sphere which has been noted as the perfect defense.

Now there is Kakashi's Raikiri which is extremely more powerful than chidori and the lightning chakra is not only visible in his hand but is now more bluer and concentrated it also creates a circle of lightning around him to show off how much chakra is being released. It has been said that he cut a lightning bolt in half with this jutsu and is known as an instant kill along with being an S-rank.

So lets just say Kakashi uses Raikiri and Neji uses Rotation they either cancel each other out or one over powers the other. If Kakashi Raikiri gets canceled out he can easily make another one in his free hand and it was shown in the PTS area he can do it without hand signs when he had a little encounter with Oro so bye bye Neji.

Or Kakashi uses Raikiri charges at Neji and with the Sharingan which allows him to predicts his opponents movements he just stops before they clash and I doubt Neji can rotate forever as soon as he stops Raikiri to the face.

Also ENOUGH WITH THE NEJI DOESNT HAVE ANY KNOWN FEARS.

Neji is a human and he has emotions he cares for his friends though he doesnt want to show it. If Kakashi Genjutsu showed Ten Ten or Lee in such a bad shape Neji will feel something and even if its only for a few seconds that provides the opening for Raikiri to the face he is a human not a damn robot with no emotion.

(( Also I know Jutsu Ranks don't matter that much it depends on how the Individual uses them ))

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Idk how iwd

I believe it..

alright there's a button that looks like a comic book thought bubble its a quote button


highlight the text you want to quote and click that button this will appear [ QUOTE][ /QUOTE] (only without the spaces between the Q and the bracket)

above the total quote you'll see something like this [ QUOTE=PrinceofPeace;6489820] copy and paste that over the [QUOTE] and that should do it

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

PoP are you comparing Rotation to Rasengan?

Rotation is basically a circle of chakra around the user to deflect weapons.

Rasengan is a spiralling sphere of pure chakra which is a A-rank jutsu.

Chidori is pure lightning chakra in the users hand also a A-rank.

When clashed they are pretty even and sense its chakra vs chakra the jutsu's either cancel each other out or one over powers the other. PTS Sasuke was able to pierce Gaara sand sphere which has been noted as the perfect defense.

Now there is Kakashi's Raikiri which is extremely more powerful than chidori and the lightning chakra is not only visible in his hand but is now more bluer and concentrated it also creates a circle of lightning around him to show off how much chakra is being released. It has been said that he cut a lightning bolt in half with this jutsu and is known as an instant kill along with being an S-rank.

So lets just say Kakashi uses Raikiri and Neji uses Rotation they either cancel each other out or one over powers the other. If Kakashi Raikiri gets canceled out he can easily make another one in his free hand and it was shown in the PTS area he can do it without hand signs when he had a little encounter with Oro so bye bye Neji.

Or Kakashi uses Raikiri charges at Neji and with the Sharingan which allows him to predicts his opponents movements he just stops before they clash and I doubt Neji can rotate forever as soon as he stops Raikiri to the face.

Also ENOUGH WITH THE NEJI DOESNT HAVE ANY KNOWN FEARS.

Neji is a human and he has emotions he cares for his friends though he doesnt want to show it. If Kakashi Genjutsu showed Ten Ten or Lee in such a bad shape Neji will feel something and even if its only for a few seconds that provides the opening for Raikiri to the face he is a human not a damn robot with no emotion.

(( Also I know Jutsu Ranks don't matter that much it depends on how the Individual uses them ))

damn Jose you should post more often in the BG's

[Shikamaru Nara]

i'm done.
I'm satisfied with knowing that you seem to be going in circles and I'll take that as another way of saying you can't refute any of my arguments.

[Jose]

damn Jose you should post more often in the BG's

I don't have the time to keep a debate going all the time also I heard they have been flooded with stupidity.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I don't have the time to keep a debate going all the time also I heard they have been flooded with stupidity.

naw they were flooded with stupidity back in '10 then me and a few other debaters cleaned house

the place is a lot better now..the Naruto vs section is an exception but that's mostly because most of our mods share our hate for Naruto fans and don't feel like stepping into a crack house of poor debating

well BMC has this place well in hand

try it out if you see a long ass debate just sit on the side lines and enjoy some popcorn

[Jose]

naw they were flooded with stupidity back in '10 then me and a few other debaters cleaned house

the place is a lot better now..the Naruto vs section is an exception but that's mostly because most of our mods share our hate for Naruto fans and don't feel like stepping into a crack house of poor debating

well BMC has this place well in hand

try it out if you see a long ass debate just sit on the side lines and enjoy some popcorn

I rarely go into the Naruto vs Section because I don't know much outside of the Narutoverse and DBZverse and some Marvel/DC. Alright I'll try to post more often in the BG :cool:

[Uchiha Sora]

If Raikiri hit rotation, Kakshi would possibly pierce it. But then his arm would still get torn because he's not gonna stop neji from spinning. And then the rest of his body would be deflected. It's not just an thin shield. It's a complete sphere with chakra spinning on the inside too. Even if it is a thin shield, Kakashi will still get blown back because he can't reach neji before the rest of his body makes contact with the rotating chakra.

Also what close combat feats does Kakashi even have PTS? He did fight Itachi, but they never had any HtH combat outside of Zabuza who actually outclassed him a few times

Also Kakashi in the Zabuza arc was almost paralyzed due to sharingan overuse and he had to sleep at Inaris house

Kakashi also can't spam raikiri. His limit was what, four? Neji doesn't even have to rotate to. Air palm him back if he tries to blitz. Waste of a raikiri, waste of valuable chakra.

Like I said earlier, genjutsu is Kakashis only chance here because Neji is much more flexible in close range. Although because byakugan can tell if a genjutsu is being casted, it's questionable if Kakashi can kill him before he breaks free

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I rarely go into the Naruto vs Section because I don't know much outside of the Narutoverse and DBZverse and some Marvel/DC. Alright I'll try to post more often in the BG :cool:

if you know about marvel and Dc and dbz then you are good to go

wide range

[Noctis Arashi]

I remember when I had to explain how powerful the Flash was in canon, and how The One Above All would beat Sheogorath.

Because literally being god doesn't mean anything. :lol:

[321zigzag3]

There is an additional Neji feat I just recalled.

He and Hiashi together when using rotation was able to block Juubi's chakra arm.

How do you make of that is up to you.

[Shisko Shi]

He can't keep rotation up forever...

[Noctis Arashi]

Because Kakashi can Raikiri forever.

What's your point Shisko? Kakashi can Raikiri 4 times in a day. Are you implying that Neji can't use rotation more than 4 times?

[Devils Lawyer]

Can Neji rotation even withstand raikiri? Pretty sure nothing in the story supports that. More or less an assumption.

[Shisko Shi]

He dosn't have to use it. Because I am sure he knows Neji can't Rotate All day. All he as to do if stall him in a way that he keeps doing it till he can't no more. Then uses it.

How strong is that rotation? I dout it is impossible to beat. But Lightning blade may not be strong enough. All depends.

[Uchiha Sora]

Can Neji rotation even withstand raikiri? Pretty sure nothing in the story supports that. More or less an assumption.

Rotation is different from every other defense in the show. It's not just still chakra, it parries whatever it comes into contact with. But like I said, Neji doesn't need to rotate. Air palm works much better as a defense


Waste of a valuable raikiri.

[Devils Lawyer]

Rotation is different from every other defense in the show. It's not just still chakra, it parries whatever it comes into contact with. But like I said, Neji doesn't need to rotate. Air palm works much better as a defense


Waste of a valuable raikiri.

If you charge the rotation at point blank with enough power you can overwhelm it. See Naruto vs Neji. RaikirI could easily force the same type of opening with better results.

[PrinceofPeace]

I don't see how lighting blade is that strong. It's only feat was bisecting human flesh which is not that strong. Rotation is a dome of chakra moving at an incredible pace that has more feats of protecting the user. Even if Kakashi attacks right when rotation stops PTS Neji has shown feats to react to it.

And the only way Kakashi would find out about the blindspots is if he had a supplementary attack..... Which he does not

And idk why ppl are saying neji can not rotate forever. Obviously this is true and nobody said he would.

I don't see how lighting blad would bisect a rapidly spinnin dome. It can't cut though it and reach neji. Plus rotation is supposed to be a better defense than garra's sand which saskue was barely able to break though.

[Vivi]

It's only feat was bisecting human flesh which is not that strong.

Chapter 240.
Raikiri isn't even hitting the floor/ground and it casually slices through earth.An amateur Raikiri no less.

It's a Chidori except that it's majorly stronger.
Heck it even uses Raiton which is all about Speed and Piercing power.

Chapter 146.
Raikiri is an advanced Chidori and look what Sasuke does despite being a noob at it.

Yeah, now think of Kakashi with his majorly more devastating one.

It's also a nice comparison seeing that Sasuke can pierce Gaaras Sand with a amateur Chidori.

Powerscaling, Raikiri is much much more devastating.

Don't give me, "It's not about Sasuke", Chidori and Raikiri have very few differences except one being the latter being the more devastating one cause it's more concentrated than Chidori.
So what the Chidori can, Raikiri should be able to do as well and more except for Techniques.
Of course, this isn't applying to Cursed Seal Chidori.
And of course, "Kakashi split lightning with it".
Not true but it's a purposely placed exaggeration to show how fast it is.

[Ultimate combatant]

And of course, "Kakashi split lightning with it".
Not true but it's a purposely placed exaggeration to show how fast it is.

It happened in Anime. I know that it is not considered canon. But the fact it was shown means we are not supposed to think Guy lied about it!!! :D

So, it is not a feat we can use but we do know it happened!!! :D

[BMC1994]

Genjutsu > Raikiri. GG Neji.

Seriously why is this debate still going on. Make a rotation vs Raikiri thread if you want to debate it that badly.

[Vivi]

Last time I checked it was also Kakashi who's been taking on Jonins ever since he was about the same age as Neji if not younger only doing bad due to being an ass when he was young.

Just saying, cause Nejis best feats come from against a guy who along with 3 others struggled against Genma,Shizune and Raido who returned from a Mission.

[joon61]

This debate might end up beating the forum record.:lol:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDiT-f4a7T4&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s

[Ultimate combatant]

This debate might end up beating the forum record.:lol:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDiT-f4a7T4&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s

This is awesome!!! :D

It is obvious why Kakashi wins this battle!!! :D

[Uchiha Sora]

I mean, I already admitted genjutsu was Kakashi's ticket to win pages ago. CqC is Neji's turf. He has Kakashi locked down there. Genjutsus not very IC but it's not something worth debating.
Neji would automatically notice he's in a genjutsu, but probably not in time to avoid a Raikiri.

If you charge the rotation at point blank with enough power you can overwhelm it. See Naruto vs Neji. RaikirI could easily force the same type of opening with better results. i believe your talking about when Neji first rotated.
At that point he only emitted chakra. He didn't rotate. He can skip that step and just rotate freely.

BMC is right though, if you want to discuss Raikiri VS Rotation then make another thread b/c Neji VS Kakashi is pretty much decided.

[321zigzag3]

So how does Neji's rotation tanking Jubi's tail factor with Hiashi's factor?

[PrinceofPeace]

Genjutsu would not be the win
-Kakashi had to Stand still to use it which would be an easy target for air palms
-it would be obious that neji is in a genjutsu
- 00C
-the genjutsu does not restrict his movements
-the genjutsu would not be as effective as it was on Sakura

Now idk if I am right but the fear that the genjutsu causes has to be realistic. Saskue being wounded by Kakashi is possible. But lee and tenten coming from no where is far fetched. We do not know how badly the genjutsu would effect. Neji can easily real out though pain or releasing it. Neji could at least rotate while under genjutsu until he breaks out.

[BMC1994]

It was never required to stand still to use genjutsu.
Him being aware doesnt help him even if he would know how to break out (which is an assumption).
Kakashi used it in his two only pts fights so for this version its very in character.
It doesnt need to be it just needs to create an opening.

Anyway debates closed.

For the more enthousiastic people under us you can now debate raikiri vs kaiten to your hearts content

enjoy.

[PrinceofPeace]

Name somebody who used genjutsu while moving. Kakashi stood close range and also needed a hand seal

Right I am just saying a need to break out of genjutsu is knowing your in one

One time was toying with people barley gennin level
The other was to distract someone ... Idk how a figure would distract neji

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

This debate might end up beating the forum record.:lol:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDiT-f4a7T4&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s

Just awesome.
And just realized the thread title changed.

[megabbaut]

Now that this thread's topic has been changed, Kaiten basically won this because now it's not specific to Neji anymore. I could use Hiashi's Kaiten for this, which is actually very big and has little to some offensive capacity, to show it's superiority to Raikiri.

[Uchiha Sora]

Even if raikiri pierces rotation, it still won't do the raikiri user any good. The rest of his body will still get deflected.

And yeah Hiash's giant rotation :lol:

[Godaime Kazekage]

Ok, wow, first of all, y'all need to simmer down. Second, there's no need to gang up on Prince as he has some good points mixed in with the bad and the Kakashi supporters have made some equally ridiculous claims like Byakugan not being able to see underground-though, I'll admit the No Fear made me :lol:

I'm not really a fan of using genjutsu in most debates, especially with a character like Kakashi in which it's extremely OoC, as I don't remember him ever using genjutsu in a battle. PTS Kakashi's genjutsu was used against an unsuspecting PTS Sakura who apparently didn't even know it was a genjutsu either. Neji knows about sharingan genjutsu too, and with Byakugan he doesn't have to look into his opponent's eyes to predict their movements.

Neji would destroy PTS Kakashi in a CQC fight. The only thing Kakashi supporters are arguing with is hype and power scaling. Neji's feats far outclass PTS Kakashi's virtually non-existent taijutsu.

As for Rotation vs. Raikiri, I think Uchiha Sora already summed that up. Rotation is hyped to be another "ultimate defense" and has never been shown to be broken, and has been shown to block attacks from the Juubi's hand. Even if Kakashi could pierce Neji's Kaiten, he still couldn't reach Neji, as his Kaiten's radius has increased considerably in Part II and he would still be rotating which would send Kakashi flying.

And if I hear Neji can't rotate forever as an argument one more time...
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/SuperShik/Avatars/Be-Mine-Kim-Pine.gif

[Spectual]

Neji would win that.
Hyuuga are not Konoha's strongest for nothing.
TS Neji is a jonin like Kakashi. No Kamui = Defeat for Kakashi

Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakaashi.

I bet they only became the strongest when all the Uchiha were killed.

[Devils Lawyer]

Neji supporters are delusional rotation can't even stop Raikiri. As proven by the fact with a strong enough attack you can actually backfire the rotation. Naruto did it with just his chakra.

Also cqc lol at people actually using that as an feat. You know nothing about fighting if you think a style will win a fight for you. Ask the numerous karate or martial arts participates getting their as handed to them on the streets. World star son you doubt this fact. UFC and mma in general supports this fact. Naruto was just a straight brawler and forced Neji style out of pocket. Kakashi is a skilled hand to hand. Nevermind his known speed in the series even in part 1. Most ridiculous and misinformed arguement. Even more so than Neji has no fear genjutsu won't work.:lol:

Kakashi is smarter, more skilled, and has a more diverse arsenal. You people need to let Neji die in peace. Kakashi raikiri>>>>wooden spikes think on that.:lol:

[megabbaut]

We're not talking about Neji vs PTS Kakashi anymore...

[Uchiha Sora]

@DL well were off that topic now

@BMC next time just lock the thread and make a new one. To avoid these.. awkward situations like this thread is in right now

It seems GK has entered the fray, shizz just got real :ugeek:

[PrinceofPeace]

As soon as Kakashi stands and firms the rat seal neji blasts him away with air palms

[Godaime Kazekage]

Neji supporters are delusional rotation can't even stop Raikiri. As proven by the fact with a strong enough attack you can actually backfire the rotation. Naruto did it with just his chakra.

Also cqc lol at people actually using that as an feat. You know nothing about fighting if you think a style will win a fight for you. Ask the numerous karate or martial arts participates getting their as handed to them on the streets. World star son you doubt this fact. UFC and mma in general supports this fact. Naruto was just a straight brawler and forced Neji style out of pocket. Kakashi is a skilled hand to hand. Nevermind his known speed in the series even in part 1. Most ridiculous and misinformed arguement. Even more so than Neji has no fear genjutsu won't work.:lol:

Kakashi is smarter, more skilled, and has a more diverse arsenal. You people need to let Neji die in peace. Kakashi raikiri>>>>wooden spikes think on that.:lol:

Neji had just begun the motion to start rotating when Naruto hit him and Naruto got blasted back as well-so there goes that argument. You also conveniently ignored that Neji's rotation covers a much wider area than Kakashi's arm span.

It's not just the style (which is the best in Konoha, and seeing as Konoha takes a dump on the other villages, likely the entire Narutoverse)-Neji is also amazing in his own right. He could block Hinata's chakra points with no one in the room (including Kakashi) able to realize that he did it. He effortlessly handled Naruto clones attacking from multiple angles-and a much more inexperienced Naruto was able to catch Kakashi using clone feints I'll remind you. He was able to dodge and strike down hundreds of kunai and spiders against Kidomaru. Both Naruto and Kidomaru couldn't counter at all when Neji attacked them with 64 palms.

PTS Kakashi on the other hand has no taijutsu feats. Also, as Sora said, Kakashi would have to go toe-to-toe against this taijutsu specialist and dodge every single one of Neji's attacks, because blocking or mutual strikes mean blocked chakra points for Kakashi. Got any chapters and panels proving PTS Kakashi's "known taijutsu aptitude"?-I'd love to see them.

Bolded part: You've got to be kidding me? That crap again? We all know Neji jumped in to protect Naruto and Hinata. Apparently you missed the whole point of that chapter and have horrible reading comprehension, because it focused on Neji making the decision to willingly give his life. He could have just as easily stood aside and let Naruto and Hinata get skewered.

[321zigzag3]

I even made a thread dedicated to Rotation almost three years ago.

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56661

http://i39.tinypic.com/2j1lcug.jpghttp://i39.tinypic.com/2j1lcug.jpghttp://i39.tinypic.com/2j1lcug.jpg

[megabbaut]

^I remember looking at that thread so many times :lol:

[Devils Lawyer]

Neji had just begun the motion to start rotating when Naruto hit him and Naruto got blasted back as well-so there goes that argument. You also conveniently ignored that Neji's rotation covers a much wider area than Kakashi's arm span.

It's not just the style (which is the best in Konoha, and seeing as Konoha takes a dump on the other villages, likely the entire Narutoverse)-Neji is also amazing in his own right. He could block Hinata's chakra points with no one in the room (including Kakashi) able to realize that he did it. He effortlessly handled Naruto clones attacking from multiple angles-and a much more inexperienced Naruto was able to catch Kakashi using clone feints I'll remind you. He was able to dodge and strike down hundreds of kunai and spiders against Kidomaru. Both Naruto and Kidomaru couldn't counter at all when Neji attacked them with 64 palms.

PTS Kakashi on the other hand has no taijutsu feats. Also, as Sora said, Kakashi would have to go toe-to-toe against this taijutsu specialist and dodge every single one of Neji's attacks, because blocking or mutual strikes mean blocked chakra points for Kakashi. Got any chapters and panels proving PTS Kakashi's "known taijutsu aptitude"?-I'd love to see them.

Bolded part: You've got to be kidding me? That crap again? We all know Neji jumped in to protect Naruto and Hinata. Apparently you missed the whole point of that chapter and have horrible reading comprehension, because it focused on Neji making the decision to willingly give his life. He could have just as easily stood aside and let Naruto and Hinata get skewered.
Yes naruto blitzed him. Raikiri requires highspeed in general. Add to the fact Kakashi can use gates it can easily meet the requirements to neutrlize it. The size means nothing only the strength of defense. Name one time rotation blocked a jutsu on raikiri level.

Style does not matter. Naruto forced neji out of pocket with an extremely rough fighting style
and speed. Kakishi is way more skilled and a good deal more faster than Neji. Kidomaru is insignificant he didn't even use close range tactics. He is insignificant. Also proof of the Hyuuga having the best fighting style is pure hype with nothing in the story supporting it. The sharigan incest band is way more skilled. As is gai and Lee.

Also you are crazy if you think Kakashi has no taijutsu skills. He stopped zabuza a master swordsman while being practically blind. Not only that his use of gates shows he has a physical aptitude like gai. Neji cant even claim killing or defeating an experience fighter at all.
Nevermind even minus taijutsu Kakashi would rape with intelligence alone. Let the neji wank die.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Yes naruto blitzed him. Raikiri requires highspeed in general. Add to the fact Kakashi can use gates it can easily meet the requirements to neutrlize it. The size means nothing only the strength of defense. Name one time rotation blocked a jutsu on raikiri level.

Style does not matter. Naruto forced neji out of pocket with an extremely rough fighting style
and speed. Kakishi is way more skilled and a good deal more faster than Neji. Kidomaru is insignificant he didn't even use close range tactics. He is insignificant. Also proof of the Hyuuga having the best fighting style is pure hype with nothing in the story supporting it. The sharigan incest band is way more skilled. As is gai and Lee.

Also you are crazy if you think Kakashi has no taijutsu skills. He stopped zabuza a master swordsman while being practically blind. Not only that his use of gates shows he has a physical aptitude like gai. Neji cant even claim killing or defeating an experience fighter at all.
Nevermind even minus taijutsu Kakashi would rape with intelligence alone. Let the neji wank die.


That was Kyuubi enhanced Naruto against PTS Neji. This fight is PTS Kakashi against post-TS Neji. Kakashi was only shown opening the first gate which does not boost speed either. The size does mean something, because unless Kakashi can interrupt Neji spinnning he'll still be hit by the rotating chakra even if he broke through it at one spot. Rotation also blocked the Juubi's arm which doesn't have the piercing power of Raikiri, but has a hell of a lot more force behind it.

Nothing supporting Gentle Fist being the best style...hmmm, maybe the fact that it damages the opponent no matter how strong their body is and if you just barely grazed them it still does major damage. Maybe because it's practitioners show amazing flexibility and the ability to dodge and counter attacks. Maybe because someone you touted as better (Lee)flat out stated that the Hyuuga style was better.

Not seeing how stopping Zabuza equates to good taijutsu skills. Zabuza makes broad sweeping movements with his sword-he relies on power, not finesse.

Rape with intelligence alone...Neji is no dummy and somehow I don't think Steven Hawking would win a fight against the Rock.

[PrinceofPeace]

Chapter 240.
Raikiri isn't even hitting the floor/ground and it casually slices through earth.An amateur Raikiri no less.
Rotation has done damage to the earth aswell so I do not see your point. And Neji was an amateur as well at it.

It's a Chidori except that it's majorly stronger.
Heck it even uses Raiton which is all about Speed and Piercing power.

Chapter 146.
Raikiri is an advanced Chidori and look what Sasuke does despite being a noob at it.

Yeah, now think of Kakashi with his majorly more devastating one.

It's also a nice comparison seeing that Sasuke can pierce Gaaras Sand with a amateur Chidori.

Powerscaling, Raikiri is much much more devastating.

Don't give me, "It's not about Sasuke", Chidori and Raikiri have very few differences except one being the latter being the more devastating one cause it's more concentrated than Chidori.
So what the Chidori can, Raikiri should be able to do as well and more except for Techniques.
Of course, this isn't applying to Cursed Seal Chidori.
And of course, "Kakashi split lightning with it".
Not true but it's a purposely placed exaggeration to show how fast it is.

I never disagreed about the feats. But destroying some of the ground is not that much of a feat. Rotation has never been defeated. It deflected multiple attacks like wood style and Enchanced webs from kidimaro. Even an incomplete rotation stopped a KN0 Naruto

@Gk
-Thanks for the back up bro

@Shikamaru Nara
-Did you have a come back for the last comment I made told you. You felt pretty confident that you were right. Did you forget that Neji's bykugan was not on due to lack of chakra?

@EVERYONE WHO THINKS KAKASHI WOULD WIN WITH GENJUTSU
-Please show me ONE PERSON!!!! Who used genjutsu while moving.
As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms

-It is OOC for Kakashi to even use this. We know little to nothing about the jutsu that was only used once. Kakashi would at least have to know Neji's fear. Afterall Kakashi had knowledge on Sakura so it was not that hard to think of her fear. Plus The genjutsu distors reality but not common sense. Whatever's Neji's "unkown fear" would be it would have to be realistic to the battle and not a random hyuga or teammate dead at his feat. Neji went though war. And from my vetran family members nothing scars them now...at least their fear would not effect them as bad as sakura.

-Neji would still be able to rotate under genjutsu

-Neji has great chakra control so he can break out easier and he can inflict some pain if needed. It is not hard to break out of a lower level jutsu that is OBVIOUS is a genjutsu

-Assuming
Kakashi mentioned that it was one of the academy basics. So sakura should have known to get out of the genjutsu. Neji is a genuis and it would not take him long to get out. Afterall an incomplete rotation does a lot and Neji would break out by the time the lighting blade is ready to go
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh how I wish 128 palms was cannon

[Devils Lawyer]

That was Kyuubi enhanced Naruto against PTS Neji. This fight is PTS Kakashi against post-TS Neji. Kakashi was only shown opening the first gate which does not boost speed either. The size does mean something, because unless Kakashi can interrupt Neji spinnning he'll still be hit by the rotating chakra even if he broke through it at one spot. Rotation also blocked the Juubi's arm which doesn't have the piercing power of Raikiri, but has a hell of a lot more force behind it.

Nothing supporting Gentle Fist being the best style...hmmm, maybe the fact that it damages the opponent no matter how strong their body is and if you just barely grazed them it still does major damage. Maybe because it's practitioners show amazing flexibility and the ability to dodge and counter attacks. Maybe because someone you touted as better (Lee)flat out stated that the Hyuuga style was better.

Not seeing how stopping Zabuza equates to good taijutsu skills. Zabuza makes broad sweeping movements with his sword-he relies on power, not finesse.

Rape with intelligence alone...Neji is no dummy and somehow I don't think Steven Hawking would win a fight against the Rock.
The point is rotation has not withstood chakra based attacks. If you think so prove it. Common sense tells you raikiri is massively stronger than the attack Naruto uses with kyuubi energy

Ok your point multiple people have took damage from gentle fist qnd continued a full battle it is not that strong. Lee never used his full strength against neji. Common sense says he would have raped if used the gates on him. Neji was even surprised. Neji is just smarter Lee is way more skilled not even questionable

Zabuza killed multiple men with a kunai in his mouth before they could even react. Yeah he is not skilled at taijutsu:lol:

Name one elite opponent from the story that neji has faced then you may have a point serious ly.

[PrinceofPeace]

I dont think we have all talk about Air Palms enough? How does kakashi counter it?

Using his shargian to help him dodge will tire him out even faster. Neji can just keep Kakashi at bay with Air Palms. The sharigan would quickly drain his charka.

Could Kakashi even react fast enough to dodge? Afterall in his fight against Zabuza he was able to dodge his sword but not a kick! 2 air Palms and Kakashi would be hit by AT LEAST ONE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys do know that Kakashi's genjutsu is SHORT RANGED right! That is WAYYY too risky especially when kakashi needs to stand still.

@Sora
-You are right. Kakashi using genjutsu is his ONLY chance at winning...but there are too many uncertainities. Don't give up on Neji just yet

[e710]

Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Your argument is a double edged sword, you know.
The point is rotation has not withstood chakra based attacks. If you think so prove it. Common sense tells you raikiri is massively stronger than the attack Naruto uses with kyuubi energy
IIRC Ten Ten states that Neji's kaiten sends back whatever attacks it with double the force or something like that. Gentle fist attacks also destroy chakra based substances, so logically it would block a chakra based attack.

And again, PTS Neji who hadn't completely got his spin going. Breaking through a Kaiten at one spot would still send Kakashi flying and wouldn't reach Neji due to his increased attack radius as well...we're going in circles here. :lol:

Ok your point multiple people have took damage from gentle fist qnd continued a full battle it is not that strong. Lee never used his full strength against neji. Common sense says he would have raped if used the gates on him. Neji was even surprised. Neji is just smarter Lee is way more skilled not even questionable
You have to take context into account.
Against Hinata: Hinata took two attacks and went into critical condition. It was also a non-lethal type match in which Kishimoto was trying to play up Hinata's tendency to keep getting back up.
Against Naruto: It was once again a non-lethal type match and Neji used pinpoint attacks to block chakra points, he wasn't trying to damage Naruto's organs.
Against Kidomaru: Kidomaru blocked the first attack by using his metal chakra blocking secretion and the only other time Neji attacked him, at the end of the fight, Neji killed him in one flurry of blows (represented by blurs at Neji's arms). So yeah, it seems pretty effective to me. Lee knew the extent of his powers and still thought Neji was stronger. In their matches when Lee limited himself Neji destroyed Lee without trying.

Zabuza killed multiple men with a kunai in his mouth before they could even react. Yeah he is not skilled at taijutsu:lol:
Zabuza killed multiple untrained thugs who were scared down by Inari and co. (aka fodder). He still ended up with multiple swords stuck in his back. Hiashi took out a mob of presumably Chuunin and Jonin from Suna and Oto with one Kaiten.

Name one elite opponent from the story that neji has faced then you may have a point serious ly.
Kidomaru and Kisame aren't slouches. PTS Kakashi only has low-end feats against Zabuza.

Edit:
Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.
And shuriken, kunai, wooden stakes, peoples' bodies, and the Juubi's arm.

[e710]

Being trapped in a water prison and almost dying is not a fight. Neji didn't do anything against Kisame. Neji pretty much had a draw with Kidomaru he was on the brink of death and if no one would have came to save him he would be dead.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Being trapped in a water prison and almost dying is not a fight. Neji didn't do anything against Kisame. Neji pretty much had a draw with Kidomaru he was on the brink of death and if no one would have came to save him he would be dead.

Hmmm-who else got trapped in a Water Prison?...oh right, it was Kakashi! Only Neji was able to break out on his own and then take out the three clones before they could do anything. :lol:
And when was Neji "almost dying"? :lol:

Kidomaru was also an enemy with a skill set that was terrible mismatch for Neji (i.e. long range fighter). PTS Kakashi has one long range jutsu which he needs a water source to use.

[PrinceofPeace]

Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.

Well you should follow up this statement with proof/evidence

This "butter" as you call rotation is a spinning chakra dome. When has Lightingblade cut though chakra?

Roatation has more feats and has broken though the ground.

How would it cut though exactly? The dome is spinning so even if it could break though the dome would still be spinning and the blade would not reach Neji.

Rotation has stopped
-KN0 naruto
-Jubbi arms
-Kidomaru web attacks
-damaged ground

Lightinblade
-pierced humans
-damaged ground

WHAT ABOUT AIR PALMS!?!?!?!?
How does Kakashi deal with it?

[e710]

Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?

BTW all attack that Rotation has countered are physical(punches, spear web, kunai) Raikiri is a chakra based attack.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?

Sorry, but the percentages don't work that way. The clone had 30% of Kisame's chakra, that doesn't mean the techniques have 30% of the power. Kisame has Bijuu-level chakra, so it wasn't a problem for him to distribute his chakra and use these techniques either. Neji quickly broke out of his water prison and then saved Lee and TenTen. When Kakashi was caught he was just like, "Well I'm F'd-you guys had better run!"

PTS Neji didn't have any ranged jutsu and Kidomaru's webs could stop his rotation. Kidomaru was just a worse-nightmare match up for Neji like Temari was for Tayuya. PTS Kakashi doesn't have a vast arsenal of jutsu either, maybe like 10. His 1000 jutsu are all hype. Air Palm has a range of at least 50 meters. (See the chapter 614).

[e710]

Sorry, but the percentages don't work that way. The clone had 30% of Kisame's chakra, that doesn't mean the techniques have 30% of the power. Kisame has Bijuu-level chakra, so it wasn't a problem for him to distribute his chakra and use these techniques either. Neji quickly broke out of his water prison and then saved Lee and TenTen. When Kakashi was caught he was just like, "Well I'm F'd-you guys had better run!"

PTS Neji didn't have any ranged jutsu and Kidomaru's webs could stop his rotation. Kidomaru was just a worse-nightmare match up for Neji like Temari was for Tayuya. PTS Kakashi doesn't have a vast arsenal of jutsu either, maybe like 10. His 1000 jutsu are all hype. Air Palm has a range of at least 50 meters. (See the chapter 614).

That was Neji and his uncle using it, not just Neji. I am very well aware that Kakashi does not have 1000 jutsu but he has around 15 which is a lot more than rotation, 64 palms strike, air palms, and yea that's 3. Yes Kakashi does have awful chakra but he was able to use the Sharingan all fight vs Zabuza, had dog summonings, made water dragon, and hade enough for Raikiri. While Neji used air palms, used rotation and then died by the spikes why didn't he use rotation, oh yea Neji has aweful stamina as well. Neji can't keep Kakashi at bay by spamming air palms if he hasn't done it more than once at a time.

[PrinceofPeace]

Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?

BTW all attack that Rotation has countered are physical(punches, spear web, kunai) Raikiri is a chakra based attack.

Again did you read what I said? How would lightinblade cut though a spinning dome?

The lightinblade has not even countered or overpowered physical attacks. It has barley shown anything. Chodori could not even beat rasengan.

Air Pam's is mid range attack.its better than Kakashi would does not have a strong mid range attack.

For such a versatile ninja Kakashi does not show is much

So again I ask for you to fully read and respond to me please. Tell me how he handles air palm and how lightingblade would win. Stop downplaying rotation

Are you kidding neji has great stamina. He surivied so many attacks from kidmaro

[e710]

Again did you read what I said? How would lightinblade cut though a spinning dome?

The lightinblade has not even countered or overpowered physical attacks. It has barley shown anything. Chodori could not even beat rasengan.

Air Pam's is mid range attack.its better than Kakashi would does not have a strong mid range attack.

For such a versatile ninja Kakashi does not show is much

So again I ask for you to fully read and respond to me please. Tell me how he handles air palm and how lightingblade would win. Stop downplaying rotation

I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid. It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.

Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.

[Godaime Kazekage]

That was Neji and his uncle using it, not just Neji. I am very well aware that Kakashi does not have 1000 jutsu but he has around 15 which is a lot more than rotation, 64 palms strike, air palms, and yea that's 3. Yes Kakashi does have awful chakra but he was able to use the Sharingan all fight vs Zabuza, had dog summonings, made water dragon, and hade enough for Raikiri. While Neji used air palms, used rotation and then died by the spikes why didn't he use rotation, oh yea Neji has aweful stamina as well. Neji can't keep Kakashi at bay by spamming air palms if he hasn't done it more than once at a time.

It's not the quantity of jutsu-it's how you use them. A has one jutsu-Lightning Release Armor-and he's a Kage. Neji didn't use Rotation because he didn't have time to use it. Kishimoto made it pretty clear when he showed Hinata and Hiashi's thoughts, "That's fast" and "Neji and Hinata's air palm won't make it in time". The Juubi used a fast pinpoint attack against Naruto in which the Hyuuga had a split second to react. Neji used rotation multiple times against both Kidomaru and the Neji clone made by Pain's jutsu-his stamina is not a problem.

I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid. It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO
How does deflecting the Juubi's arm and being called an ultimate defense "suck"? Assuming Kakashi can see Air Palm with Sharingan, it won't do him much good since the speed of the attack is near instantaneous. (See Team Guy vs. Kisame-Guy and Lee are suspended in mid-air when Kisame is hit by air palm). Air Palm hit Kisame and deflected a wooden spike coming at Naruto-it's actually never been shown to miss-so there goes that argument.

Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.
Again, air palms are fast and Neji does not have bad stamina-there is no evidence for that. Kakashi's dogs meet Neji's Kaiten and go bye-bye. Neji can see the dogs coming from underground with Byakugan.

Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.
Well it says something about his tenacity when he can still run with two massive holes in his body and again-Kidomaru=PTS Neji's worst enemy.

[e710]

It's not the quantity of jutsu-it's how you use them. A has one jutsu-Lightning Release Armor-and he's a Kage. Neji didn't use Rotation because he didn't have time to use it. Kishimoto made it pretty clear when he showed Hinata and Hiashi's thoughts, "That's fast" and "Neji and Hinata's air palm won't make it in time". The Juubi used a fast pinpoint attack against Naruto in which the Hyuuga had a split second to react. Neji used rotation multiple times against both Kidomaru and the Neji clone made by Pain's jutsu-his stamina is not a problem.


How does deflecting the Juubi's arm and being called an ultimate defense "suck"? Assuming Kakashi can see Air Palm with Sharingan, it won't do him much good since the speed of the attack is near instantaneous. (See Team Guy vs. Kisame-Guy and Lee are suspended in mid-air when Kisame is hit by air palm). Air Palm hit Kisame and deflected a wooden spike coming at Naruto-it's actually never been shown to miss-so there goes that argument.


Again, air palms are fast and Neji does not have bad stamina-there is no evidence for that. Kakashi's dogs meet Neji's Kaiten and go bye-bye. Neji can see the dogs coming from underground with Byakugan.


Well it says something about his tenacity when he can still run with two massive holes in his body and again-Kidomaru=PTS Neji's worst enemy.

Kisame was occupied with Guy and Lee so Air Palms better hit while Kisame is not paying attention. The 10 tails attack was coming at them so Air Palms met it half way. Air Palms has never hit a moving target, don't say Kisame he got blindsided. Kakashi sharingan makes Neji's movement's slower so he will know when Neji is about to attack. Neji won't and can't keep spaming air palms and Neji has never showed good stamina or a vast chakra pool he has never been able to use his attacks a lot. Neji got OHKO by Naruto pretty much with the uppercut because Naruto hadn't touched him previous to that so Neji was tired from the battle. Versus Kidomaru Neji kept getting hit in the same spot that was Neji's plan to get hit in that spot to avoid major artery or organ damage and he was exhausted after that fight too. pts Kakashi has bad stamina compared to Naruto a freaking jinchuriki, he used water dragon, summonings, and had sharingan on the whole fight vs Zabuza and after that he still made some clones, not shadow clones but still something.

[PrinceofPeace]

I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. how does it suck with the feats I mentioned. Where are your feats. Stop making random claims without proof. They just sound basis. The Hutus does not suck and you know it. Even enemy ninjas complemented it. It protected against a lot.
Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid.
using the sharigan to see the air palms is not a good thing. Using the sharigan takes a toll on his body. The sharigan would just steal more valuable chakra Away. As we stated Kakashi does not have good stamina. His reaction feats are not any better. After all zabuza manged to kick him and zabuza got away. It would even be OOC for Kakashi to use te sharigan off the bat. Kakashi is not fast enough and it is OOc for Kakashi to go ubdetground to dodge an attack
It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO
air palms hit zetsu which was moving and it is faster than Hidan

Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.
how do the dogs hold down or distract Neji. Neji can see them with bkyugan or blast them with air palms or rotation. Neji can see them underground and body blow would kill Em if they are too close. Neji has spammed air palms and Neji has better stamina than Kakashi. You keep saying words with no proof. Neji has lasted against the stamina master naruto and he surivied against kidimaro. Neji surivied fatal attacks and kept fighting till the end

Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.
How is that not stamina? Chakra pool and stamina is like the same thing.

Kakashi was crippled after his fight with zabuza so how is that any better than what Neji did ?!

Please use feats/proof

[Shisko Shi]

I am not disagring with you POP.

But Like? If you are going to make an argument like that don't use the word 'Like'. Because that tells me you are not sure.

YOu guys also know that Kakashi isn't an idiot. How is it OOC to us Sharingan off the bat? He did with Zabuza. He did with Sasuke, He did with Tobi. He does with people who would actully put up a fight. Like Pain or Itachi.

How does he have bad stamina? Just asking. I mean you guys make it sound like everything about kakashi is weak. I mean this guy isn't a fool He would go underground to avoid an attack. Also Didn't Naruto beat Neji that way? I could be wrong. So if so then how would neji find him? I mean he didn't find Naruto.

[PrinceofPeace]

Ok thanks. And look at our fight
-------------------------------//-----
Idk why he even mentions chakra pool. That has nothing to do with getting hit with an attack. That is pure stamina. Neji tanked the hit.

[BMC1994]

I'm not really a fan of using genjutsu in most debates, especially with a character like Kakashi in which it's extremely OoC, as I don't remember him ever using genjutsu in a battle. PTS Kakashi's genjutsu was used against an unsuspecting PTS Sakura who apparently didn't even know it was a genjutsu either. Neji knows about sharingan genjutsu too, and with Byakugan he doesn't have to look into his opponent's eyes to predict their movements.


Point is we were only using an pts kakashi here. We cant not use shippuden(were he did the majority of his battles) to determine his behaviour. Just his part part 1 behaviour were he used genjutsu in the only 2 battles he been in. Fear vs Sakura and An image of zabuza vs Zabuza. Zabuza knew about genjutsu too didnt help him alot.


@BMC next time just lock the thread and make a new one. To avoid these.. awkward situations like this thread is in right now


Should i change it back or...?



@EVERYONE WHO THINKS KAKASHI WOULD WIN WITH GENJUTSU
-Please show me ONE PERSON!!!! Who used genjutsu while moving.
As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms

-It is OOC for Kakashi to even use this. We know little to nothing about the jutsu that was only used once. Kakashi would at least have to know Neji's fear. Afterall Kakashi had knowledge on Sakura so it was not that hard to think of her fear. Plus The genjutsu distors reality but not common sense. Whatever's Neji's "unkown fear" would be it would have to be realistic to the battle and not a random hyuga or teammate dead at his feat. Neji went though war. And from my vetran family members nothing scars them now...at least their fear would not effect them as bad as sakura.

-Neji would still be able to rotate under genjutsu

-Neji has great chakra control so he can break out easier and he can inflict some pain if needed. It is not hard to break out of a lower level jutsu that is OBVIOUS is a genjutsu

-Assuming
Kakashi mentioned that it was one of the academy basics. So sakura should have known to get out of the genjutsu. Neji is a genuis and it would not take him long to get out. Afterall an incomplete rotation does a lot and Neji would break out by the time the lighting blade is ready to go


'As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms', the problem here is if kakashi has already activitated the genjutsu neji would need to break out. The only known way for him to break out by himself is making the 'kai(release)' sign with his hands. (and again we dont even know if neji is able to do this , so this is being generous).

Sasuke vs Deidara, Sasuke vs Danzo, Kurenai vs Itachi , Itachi vs kurenai (reversal), Kakashi vs Sakura (moved away from his original location that was behind sakura and went to some random tree).

Not even going to adress the fear part.

No he wouldnt.

No because neji doesnt have any feats that even suggests he could break out of it. Again im being generous here.

'Academy Basics'? Naruto couldnt even transform properly in his final academy year. Lee couldnt use genjutsu or any jutsu for that matter. etc. You cant assume they have all basic skills just because they went to the academy.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Point is we were only using an pts kakashi here. We cant not use shippuden(were he did the majority of his battles) to determine his behaviour. Just his part part 1 behaviour were he used genjutsu in the only 2 battles he been in. Fear vs Sakura and An image of zabuza vs Zabuza. Zabuza knew about genjutsu too didnt help him alot.

I took the image of Zabuza to just be Zabuza wigging out, because Kakashi was doing the same moves as him at the same time. Nowhere is it stated that Kakashi was using genjutsu. So yeah, Kakashi has never hit a high-level (or even low level) opponent with genjutsu. The only one is n00b Sakura who turned around right into Kakashi's face and apparently didn't even recognize she was in a genjutsu.

[BMC1994]

It was heavily suggested. Ill reread the part later. Have school now :lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

You do know the genjutsu is a short range move only right? So how does he get close enough. And he has to do about one or 2 hand seals which is enough time to use air palms before genjutsu takes full effect

Can you give e exact chp where genjutsu was used on the move

Kakashi moves AFTER the genjutsu was casted.

FYI- with te bykugan neji does not need direct eye contact and he can us if faster than a hand sign or two

[BMC1994]

Sharingan genjutsu dont require hand seals thats the reason why its such an big of a deal.

Maybe later, lazyness is kicking in.

Doesnt matter he still moved during the genjutsu.

[PrinceofPeace]

who moved during genjutsu?
And I am talking about the Demonic genjutsu requires hand seals

But the sharigan can not do much with genjutsu..At least not PTS Kakashi's sharigan. It created a false image but how does that help?

And kakashi only did that to freak people out while copuying. Kakashi can not copy Neji

[joon61]

Kakashi:*Uses genjutsu to show that kakashi is real close to neji and is about to use lightning blade*
Neji:"Uses rotation*
Kakashi:*Dashs over to neji and uses lightning blade when he finished rotation while neji is still in the genjutsu*

GG

[Godaime Kazekage]

Kakashi:*Uses genjutsu to show that kakashi is real close to neji and is about to use lightning blade*
Neji:"Uses rotation*
Kakashi:*Dashs over to neji and uses lightning blade when he finished rotation while neji is still in the genjutsu*

GG

1. Kakashi has never demonstrated a genjutsu like that.
2. PTS Kakashi has only used genjutsu on one opponent-n00b Sakura who walked right into it and didn't recognize she was even in a genjutsu, and you assume that Kakshi can successfully pull off genjutsu on a Hyuuga jonin.

Fail.

[joon61]

I just figured that genjutsu could be used like that. I wonder why it won't work on a hyuga jonin. WHy?

[PrinceofPeace]

It is OOc for Kakashi I use the genjutsu he used on zabuza cuz Kakashi can't copy neji. And for te demonic genjutsu Kakashi also needs to stand still and be close.

The battle is over neji won. Face it. Genjutsu was the only way to win but standing still with genjutsu is suicide

[BMC1994]

1. Kakashi has never demonstrated a genjutsu like that.
2. PTS Kakashi has only used genjutsu on one opponent-n00b Sakura who walked right into it and didn't recognize she was even in a genjutsu, and you assume that Kakshi can successfully pull off genjutsu on a Hyuuga jonin.

Fail.

2. Genjutsu has been pulled on kage. Him being a jonin or a hyuuga(with no known resistance to genjutsu) is not a factor here. It doesnt matter on who he used it nor does the skill level of the one its used on. Many experienced ninja have been caught by rather simple genjutsu, (Sasukes Post timeskip fights come to mind).

I just figured that genjutsu could be used like that. I wonder why it won't work on a hyuga jonin. WHy?

There is no reason it wouldnt work. Some people just like to give hyuuga random feats out of thin air.

[megabbaut]

If we're going to keep debating Neji vs PTS Kakashi then I suggest we change the title of the thread back and make a new thread Kaiten vs Raikiri and merge the posts relating to that into the thread.

[BMC1994]

I kinda tried to kill this thread without killing it. But im probably closing this if this goes around in circles too much. (if not me one of the other mods probably will).

But changing it back for now.

[Devils Lawyer]

You even I who have rode a many of thread into the ground think this crap needs to be closed. Neji sucks anyways. His greates fight was as a child.`:P

[Uchiha Sora]

I kinda tried to kill this thread without killing it. But im probably closing this if this goes around in circles too much. (if not me one of the other mods probably will).

But changing it back for now.

Like I said, next time just close the thread and make a new one. Avoids all the confusion

[PrinceofPeace]

Are we really closing this?
Kakashi is not winning this.

Genjutsu of anykind will not work. For Demonic genjutsu Kakashi NEEDS to get close to his foe and form 1-2 hand signs. Neji is not going to sit there. Neji can run away to keep the distance or stike Kakashi with air palms as soon as he gets close
and
With the genjutsu sharigan that he used on Zabuza would not help much either. Kakashi has only been shown to show false images of the user and that was only when Kakashi was copying someone. Showing a doubleganger of the foe will not do anything to Neji.
Overall genjutsu is OOC.

Underground is useless when with the bykugan he would be easily visible.
The dogs can not do anything either. They barely have feats. They can be seen easily and air palms would easily hit them.

The only thing Kakashi has is lighting blade. It is his only chance of winning. But engaging in close up combat is too dangerous. Especially when Neji has a mid range Air Palm atttack. Kakashi can see the air palms with the sharigan but that just takes more of a toll on the sharigan. The sharigan quickly drains his chakra constantly. Kakashi is not known for his stamina. Also just becaue Kakashi can predict moves does not mean he can dodge them. Afterall he dodged Zabuza's sword but not a kick from him.

And idk how Lighting blade can beat Rotation. Let's say that the blade does pierece though the rotation...then what? It is not a regular dome. It is spiinning so Kakashi would still get hurt. Plus The dome is wide and Neji is in the middle.... SO is kakashi going to run stright though the dome? His hand would have to reach pretty far to hit Neji inside the dome.

Since Kakashi does not have strong mid-long range attacks Neji can keep the distance and use Air Palms till sharigan takes its toll. Neji has the advantage with his scope range and longer ranged jutsu.

I agree 64palms is useless (thaks Vivi) but everything else is deadly

The sharigan is a plus and a minus for kakashi (more of a minus since he can not copy his attacks at antipating them would take a chunck of charka)

[joon61]

More than 1800 views. Awesome!!!

[PrinceofPeace]

Lol you are so hype. the hard part is doing it again!

One of the first threads I made in this section (Danzo vs Garra) got over 2,000 views